...and we wonder why youth is so misguided.

[Gray222]

While sitting in a public highschool classroom this morning taking a written sgt exam I looked around. I saw an entire wall dedicated to "#blacklivesmatter" with photos of skittles, the guy officer wilson killed legally, the guy that was too fat to survive any amount of physical confrontation in NY and Sandra Bland, the women who decided to hang herself. There was a poster of the white kid that shot up a church group with a big "racist" written across his face.

On another wall was a large "kanye" title with things covered from "yeazy" to the photo of his photoshopped face on a police officer.

In the corner I saw a photo quote of Adams liverty quote, but someone decided to put a large photo of taylor swift on top of it.

On the blackboard at the front of the room, there was "pride and prejudice" in big letters and the main points were: "racism? Bad spellong? Wrong use of words?"

I am astonished and completely not surprised that this goes on in these schools.

[23JAZ]

While sitting in a public highschool classroom this morning taking a written sgt exam I looked around. I saw an entire wall dedicated to "#blacklivesmatter" with photos of skittles, the guy officer wilson killed legally, the guy that was too fat to survive any amount of physical confrontation in NY and Sandra Bland, the women who decided to hang herself. There was a poster of the white kid that shot up a church group with a big "racist" written across his face.

On another wall was a large "kanye" title with things covered from "yeazy" to the photo of his photoshopped face on a police officer.

In the corner I saw a photo quote of Adams liverty quote, but someone decided to put a large photo of taylor swift on top of it.

On the blackboard at the front of the room, there was "pride and prejudice" in big letters and the main points were: "racism? Bad spellong? Wrong use of words?"

I am astonished and completely not surprised that this goes on in these schools.

This makes me want to move deep into the woods and have no contact with civilization!

[Jeep]

While sitting in a public highschool classroom this morning taking a written sgt exam I looked around. I saw an entire wall dedicated to "#blacklivesmatter" with photos of skittles, the guy officer wilson killed legally, the guy that was too fat to survive any amount of physical confrontation in NY and Sandra Bland, the women who decided to hang herself. There was a poster of the white kid that shot up a church group with a big "racist" written across his face.

On another wall was a large "kanye" title with things covered from "yeazy" to the photo of his photoshopped face on a police officer.

In the corner I saw a photo quote of Adams liverty quote, but someone decided to put a large photo of taylor swift on top of it.

On the blackboard at the front of the room, there was "pride and prejudice" in big letters and the main points were: "racism? Bad spellong? Wrong use of words?"

I am astonished and completely not surprised that this goes on in these schools.

You should take a look at the text books. Not only are they difficult to read with each page containing lots of boxes with extra information, pictures etc., all of which take away from the flow of the text, but they are PC to a max, and the history books are the worst. America is continually trashed (so much so that one could easily conclude that their authors believe that the world would be better if we had lost WWII, for example) and there is usually no mention of the vast slaughters undertaken in Communist countries or the failure of socialist economics.

One reason why so many 20 somethings support Bernie Sanders is because they have never heard of the Soviet Union, don't know what communism was, don't know what "class warfare" is and don't know that the market system was proved to be superior. Although the Soviet Union only collapsed 25 years ago, the average 25 year old kid has no idea what is was or what it did.

Instead, they are taught, from the early grades on, that boys are bad, white people are bad, blacks are eternal victims of whites and that white people and especially white boys should feel guilty. In my kids' high schools, they were also repeatedly told by teachers (and a chorus of fellow students) that it was inconceivably to vote for Republicans and that all decent people were Democrats. Dissenting views were, to put it mildly, not encouraged.

Inner city schools are even worse, and I suppose that is where you were.

[scw2]

In my kids' high schools, they were also repeatedly told by teachers (and a chorus of fellow students) that it was inconceivably to vote for Republicans and that all decent people were Democrats. Dissenting views were, to put it mildly, not encouraged.

Might as well skip to the end and set up re-education camps now.

[breakingtime91]

not all teachers are like that. I am not saying its not an issue because it is but it completely dependent on the area and the administration. It is my job as an educator to give our youth the tools to solve problems, make educated decisions, and interpret information to the best of their ability. It is not my job to tell them how to think and what to believe. You give the facts, tools, and information they need to create their own ideas, beliefs, and decisions about what is right/wrong. I will and do correct children for disrespecting public servants and military. That shit doens't fly around Mr.Ryan ;)

[ajp3jeh]

Several years ago, I was visiting the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis. I was moving through slowly and a school group caught up to me. The teacher, who happened to be white, was in front telling the kids what each exhibit contained and meant.

One of the exhibits was on the riots that came with James Meredith's entry into Ole Miss. (U.S. Marshalls and Federal troops had a nasty fight with the protestors and scores were injured with two dead.) The exhibit featured the riot control gear used by the Marshall Service to quell the riot.

When the "teacher" reached this exhibit, she looked at the contents and explained to the students that the exhibit contained the tools used to beat Civil Rights protestors. I wish I had said something but I was too stunned by the Bizarro version of history I had just heard.

There were Soviet re-interpreters of history that wouldn't have tried that one.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[BillSWPA]

This is one of a long list of reasons why we made the financial sacrifice to send our kids to private school.

The public schools here teach an over complicated system of solving math problems that goes by various names (Chicago math, etc,), and which here is called "everyday math." I have 2 engineering degrees, and despite having more math than most or all of their teachers, they have no interest in learning why they are setting up their students to fail if they go into any STEM field. Their attitude is "shut up and keep forking over more and more of your tax dollars for worse and worse results."

When I was in high school. I wrote 1-2 research papers of 9-12 pages each every quarter. Today I have college professors tell me they have students in their class who have never written a 3 page paper. The teachers have figured out that if they don't assign a 10 page paper, they don't have to grade a 10 page paper.

I know there are still some good teachers out there, but the overall picture in the public schools is pathetic.

[Jared]

I get them, at work, after they've managed to get an associates degree. I've had kids come in that are supposed to be industrial technicians that aren't even 100% sure about righty tighty-lefty lucey...

So, when I'm up to train them for a few weeks, I start with a thorough explanation of how this equipment works, what input conditions it looks for before it will engage certain outputs, on and on. Note taking is STRONGLY encouraged. It is also almost never done.

After about a week of me fixing problems and explaining why the current condition is wrong, what I'm doing to fix it, etc., I'll usually spy a really easy fix, and ask them to troubleshoot the problem. Sometimes they get it. Usually they don't. Right or wrong, when they point to a part and say "that part is bad" my very next thing is to ask them why they think that is the problem (this is a test. I do it to make sure they aren't blindly guessing. I want them to articulate to me what they are seeing and why they've reached the conclusion they have.) 99% of the time, this small simple challenge freezes them in their tracks. Sometimes they even randomly point to something else, and I'll ask again "Why that part?" Process repeats.....

The thing is, I'm actually trying to teach them how the system works, and how to think like it does. They seem to want to learn a system of x=y. If the machine won't do x, then change y part every time to fix. These machines don't work that way. There's multiple parts, both electrical and mechanical, that are involved in every single action. I also want them to be able to handle a challenge of their thinking. I've had to stand and convince Supervisors and managers that this or that was the necessary course of action when they don't believe my diagnosis. If they can't handle my simple "Why?" then how on earth are they gonna go toe to toe with the Department Manager.

It's gotten to the point that my direct supervisor gives me two types to train: Those over 30, and the ones that were in the military (any branch). I never served, but I get along well with those who did.

[LSP552]

Today I have college professors tell me they have students in their class who have never written a 3 page paper.


I don't care where you are, that's just insane.

[JAD]

Our kid's school teaches Singapore math, which I do like. My wife teaches 3rd grade there; her kids are just finishing up individual projects that require three pages of historical essay, single space hand written in cursive, draw a portrait, make a sculpture, and present it to an audience. Third graders.

And no, they can't do yeezy, unless he's been sainted recently. Which I suppose would not completely surprise me.

If you ask her kids, less than half of whom are whites, what's special about February, they'll screw up their eyes and say "it's mostly Lent?"

[MGW]

Folks, schools are like any other organization. The employees do what they are allowed to do or what is set by policy. Yes there are bad teachers but there are really good ones too. It's like any other profession. Don't demonize teachers as a group. My wife is one so it kinda pisses me off.

Largely schools teach what is in national standards. Right now common core and next gen science standards drive everything. Want to be successful on the ACT or SAT? Better hope you're well versed in what is covered by those standards. It really doesn't matter if you go to a private or public school you're largely being taught to the same standards. The political and religious environment is what you're paying for at a private school. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Plug into your schools if you have kids. There are lots of ways to be involved. Find out what is taught and why. Educate yourself about what your kids are learning. You're still the biggest influence on your kids and understanding what is taught in your schools will help you keep them headed in the right direction.

[JAD]

. It really doesn't matter if you go to a private or public school you're largely being taught to the same standards. .

That does not mesh with my experience. Classical education is becoming widely available (even in non Catholic schools, more's the pity) in major metros -- even for free here in Dallas. Classical Ed radically diverges from common core. Here's a fun article highlighting the differences ('fun' if you think Summa Theologica is fun):
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/common-core-education-vs-classical-education-a-thomistic-approach

[breakingtime91]

So JAD don't take this the wrong way but America's classical version of education is the whole reason common core exists. I am not trying to piss anyone off but it wasn't working... We have been consistently/annually falling farther and farther behind in education. Common core is being implemented to address the national deficit, not individual kids. Also there is a huge misconception that common core is this blanket thing. Most often it is a soft outline that allows major leeway for local culture/social considerations. Once again, not trying to piss anyone off, there is not a huge difference between public and private school success rates with children. The bigger difference is in the area the schools are/the poverty rate of the community the schools serve. The only way private schools look better on paper is because they accept either very talented children or families that are wealthy. Even the "free" public schools relay on major donations and are very selective on who they accept/what faculty they accept.

[Trooper224]

My wife's been an extremely dedicated teacher for over twenty five years. Here's a couple of clues for some of you fucktards: teachers don't get to choose what curriculum they teach. Most of them can't stand the new math for example, but they don't get to decide if they teach it or not, nor do they get to choose their text books. These things are all decided above them by pencil necks who've never spent a day in the classroom. Those attitudes the students have on Black Lives Matter, racism, or anything else? Where do they come from? Right from the living room, not the classroom. If they're told they can't display that shit on the classroom wall? Well, racism and a violation of their first amendment rights and all that. They have no respect for the teacher in any way shape or form and that incudes any opinion the teacher may have. You want to bitch about students attitudes? Clean your own fucking houses first and stop expecting the teacher to raise your little shit stains.

[Lomshek]

The teachers have figured out that if they don't assign a 10 page paper, they don't have to grade a 10 page paper.


The there are quite a few teachers who learned that if they assign "hard" assignments half the kids won't do it. After the bad grades are handed out the parents call the admin and demand their snowflake be given the opportunity to earn extra credit so snowflake can pass.

A large portion of the kids in a given class are well below grade level but are advanced anyway due to "promote with peers" feels so no one feels bad about their poor grades.

Beyond that are the large percentage of kids who don't live with either parent and instead live with an aunt, grandma or boyfriend in tenuous (at best) living conditions that are not conducive to study and the pursuit of excellence.

In other words it isn't the teacher being lazy it's the teacher being sabotaged by the system.

[JAD]

So JAD don't take this the wrong way but America's classical version of education is the whole reason common core exists
That's a pretty tenuous point. Arguing that American educational results were a product purely of instruction method -- especially when changing methods hasn't improved results -- ignores every other social factor that impacts performance.

.
Also there is a huge misconception that common core is this blanket thing.
Common core is a blanket thing. It's a set of standards, based around an ethic of teaching 'critical thinking' at the expense of memorization and a focus on facts. It's not a curriculum -- but standards drive testing, and testing drives funding, so do you think curriculum is formed by those standards?


The only way private schools look better on paper is because they accept either very talented children or families that are wealthy. Even the "free" public schools relay on major donations and are very selective on who they accept/what faculty they accept.

Your first sentence is not very well informed. Our school, for example, has a median iq right around 100 and half of the parents pay for the other half's kids. We do only accept kids whose parents give a crap, though, which is cheating.

Your second sentence is true, though, the free (charter) schools like Great Hearts in Phoenix -- where I wouldn't send my kid, incidentally, because in addition to the instructional method I'm also interested in making sure that virtue is part of my kid's education, and because I think that education and formation are difficult to separate -- are crazy selective, though that selection is often by lottery. Why do they have to be selective? Because parents are /very/ interested in alternatives to public schools.

[JV_]

Just a different view of our youth:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhkMwAhIOcU&feature=youtu.be

[Gray222]

My wife's been an extremely dedicated teacher for over twenty five years. Here's a couple of clues for some of you fucktards: teachers don't get to choose what curriculum they teach. Most of them can't stand the new math for example, but they don't get to decide if they teach it or not, nor do they get to choose their text books. These things are all decided above them by pencil necks who've never spent a day in the classroom. Those attitudes the students have on Black Lives Matter, racism, or anything else? Where do they come from? Right from the living room, not the classroom. If they're told they can't display that shit on the classroom wall? Well, racism and a violation of their first amendment rights and all that. They have no respect for the teacher in any way shape or form and that incudes any opinion the teacher may have. You want to bitch about students attitudes? Clean your own fucking houses first and stop expecting the teacher to raise your little shit stains.

Not entirely sure as to the point of your post, but I understand your wife's (and your) frustration. The fact of the matter still remains that the material is still taught by the teachers. They are ultimately responsible for the way, quality and method of teaching a topic. I will guarantee you that if you go to a rural high school (which I have been to recently for a career day) the walls in the classroom are filled with worthwhile topics, poetry, art, politics, projects on science and the like. The thought of having some "#blacklivesmatter" on one of the boards would be a huge issue unless it was a specific project by a student to get attention to the cause with a valid political argument. When a student body is allowed to put a photo of several people, one of which is a different race and print "RACIST" in large red letters across the face, it sends the completely wrong message. The teacher has full control of how that message is displayed.

Now, does that absolve the parents? Of course not, but we can play this game all day, right? We've both been to houses of shit stain parents who rather smoke crack than help their kid with their homework, and that's if they didn't sell their kids laptop, tv, bed, food, or the kid for crack. We have a huge problem in the US, and its not going to be fixed primarily by the parents, nor the teachers. But remember, these kids spend a fair amount of their day inside a classroom and the person in charge of that classroom has a responsibility to teach them properly, just as their parents do. The fault, blame or whatnot falls on both parties, not equally, but both still have a hand in its current state.

[BillSWPA]

Common Core is NOT about improving our kid's education. In fact, it is the opposite.

The standards originate from a gentleman named Bill Ayers. Recognize that name?

The math standards are too high in the lower grades, and not high enough in the upper grades. Conversely, the correct approach is to stress the fundamentals up to the level that the kids can understand, build on them, and then push for understanding of more difficult subjects when the fundamentals have been grounded and minds have been better developed. Doing it the common core way accomplishes nothing other than to get kids used to the idea that they will not understand what is being taught, so they see that as normal even with the lowered standards later.

I have read the Common Core math standards. There is NOTHING in those standards requiring over complicated problem solving techniques. This is the choice of the school districts. Each additional step required to solve a problem is another chance to make a mistake. If these students are in a sophomore level statics class in college solving 3 simultaneous equations for 3 unknowns, taking a timed test with tight time limits against students who have been properly taught, they WILL wash out of the engineering program. If by some miracle they manage to get through, they will be designing calculators with bigger microcontrollers with extra registers for all the extra intermediate results they need to generate, which produce slower answers due to all the extra clock cycles required.

On the literature side, moving from fiction to nonfiction reading means the kids will not be exposed to 1984 by George Orwell, or Brave New World by Huxley. These are probably the most important books for kids to read if they are to understand where proponents of common core are taking this country.

Blaming lack of money for poor results in certain districts is ridiculous. In Pennsylvania, the public schools spend $9,000 to $12,000 per student. My daughter's private school charges $6,000 per student, and is kicking all of their butts in the quality of the education provided. The reason is that they actually care about teaching and doing the best they can. When I asked their principal what math they were teaching, they said Saxon Math, and then asked me what I thought they should be teaching. I told them they were already using the best possible method. (We tried Singapore math during our home schooling days and were unimpressed.)

I have had 2 conversations with a public school principal in my district about the math curriculum. Both times she claimed that they were re-evaluating their curriculum. At no time did she care what I - who has had more math than most of all of their teachers - had to say about it. The attitude was "shut up, send us your kids, and fork over your tax dollars. If you don't like it, send your kids elsewhere but continue to fork over your tax dollars."

Therein lies the critical difference between private and public schools: the public schools are completely insulated from economic competition. We have not had a budget in this state for months because the governor is committed to screwing everyone else to give a political payback to the teachers unions. I am self-employed, and if I fail to keep my clients happy, they go elsewhere. Public schools have no such concern. When they fail, they just demand more tax dollars.

If this country really wanted to catch up to the rest of the world, it would scrap Common Core and implement voucher programs in every state. If a parent doesn't like the school, they can send their kids elsewhere. The schools that do a good job will thrive. The ones that don't will either have to change or will not thrive. That is the situation faced by every private business (or at least those that don't depend on gov't bailouts, but that is a another subject).

[JV_]

When I asked their principal what math they were teaching, they said Saxon Math, and then asked me what I thought they should be teaching. I told them they were already using the best possible method. (We tried Singapore math during our home schooling days and were unimpressed.)My kids are home-schooled and we're very pleased with Saxon. I've tried to help a kid using a common core math program, I think she was in 2nd or 3rd grade, I couldn't figure out what any of the problem questions were asking/saying if you followed "their way"

[breakingtime91]

That's a pretty tenuous point. Arguing that American educational results were a product purely of instruction method -- especially when changing methods hasn't improved results -- ignores every other social factor that impacts performance.

.
Common core is a blanket thing. It's a set of standards, based around an ethic of teaching 'critical thinking' at the expense of memorization and a focus on facts. It's not a curriculum -- but standards drive testing, and testing drives funding, so do you think curriculum is formed by those standards?



Your first sentence is not very well informed. Our school, for example, has a median iq right around 100 and half of the parents pay for the other half's kids. We do only accept kids whose parents give a crap, though, which is cheating.

Your second sentence is true, though, the free (charter) schools like Great Hearts in Phoenix -- where I wouldn't send my kid, incidentally, because in addition to the instructional method I'm also interested in making sure that virtue is part of my kid's education, and because I think that education and formation are difficult to separate -- are crazy selective, though that selection is often by lottery. Why do they have to be selective? Because parents are /very/ interested in alternatives to public schools.

1)So why do you think common core was developed? Because the old system was so great but everything else just sucked? I am not the biggest fan of common core but it is statistically based but I understand why they are going this route.

2)Common core, like I said in my post (the part that you left out) is a loose set of standards that is given to the state. The state then adds its on blanket standards, then the city/county, and then the school district. Critic thinking is a big part of common core, your right but to say they are only learning critic thinking is kind of naive and shows you haven't seen the standards for science or social studies. I will say I completely agree that idea that we are so focused on testing is flawed, most teachers feel the same way you do about this aspect. I would also add that most teachers aren't a fan in general, but it is what it is.

3)You are correct, I worded my first sentence poorly. Many private schools do a great job of educating the children that they work for but I am not a huge fan of most of them. I think my bias came out in that sentence and I apologize.

[breakingtime91]

My kids are home-schooled and we're very pleased with Saxon. I've tried to help a kid using a common core math program, I think she was in 2nd or 3rd grade, I couldn't figure out what any of the problem questions were asking/saying if you followed "their way"

Hardest class I have had in college so far is math k-8 instruction course.. It is so different from what we have learned but at least they eventually end up in the same place around 8th lol

[FNFAN]

Common Core is NOT about improving our kid's education. In fact, it is the opposite.

The standards originate from a gentleman named Bill Ayers.

An interesting article on common core:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2013/12/04/roots-of-common-core-lie-in-association-between-barack-obama-and-bill-ayers/

[gkieser92]

I work as a Behavior Specialist in a large, diverse K-12 school district. I am constantly baffled at the lack of knowledge in both teachers and administrators in how to manage behavior in students. This often results in teachers feeling intimidated by students, in which case no learning happens. The standards require spending time teaching eight ways to teach math, but Common Core doesn't even address standards foe social-emotional learning. They say they will roll it out eventually. In the meantime, teachers feel stuck.

If we really want to reform our school system, we need to start with our teacher training programs to give teachers the skills to manage real-world classroom issues.

[peterb]

When comparing cost per student, check to see how many special ed students are covered. They can be very expensive.

Part of the reason that some private schools do so well is because the parents are actively involved. The parents who don't care leave their kids in the default public school, and the teachers there have to make the best of it.

It's easy to teach folks who want to learn. Motivating people who don't care is frustrating, and I understand why those teachers burn out.

[scw2]

When comparing cost per student, check to see how many special ed students are covered. They can be very expensive.

Part of the reason that some private schools do so well is because the parents are actively involved. The parents who don't care leave their kids in the default public school, and the teachers there have to make the best of it.

It's easy to teach folks who want to learn. Motivating people who don't care is frustrating, and I understand why those teachers burn out.

That's a big part of it, I think. Most people can achieve more but are held back by their own belief that they cannot. Can't solve math problems right away but the student next to you can? Students/teachers/parents then tell their kids that other student must be naturally talented at math, implying that they are not, so they might as well not try. I think that's crap. Your kid may never win a Fields medal or anything, but I think for high school and maybe introductory college level math it is not above the abilities of most people. You just need a good foundation and the work ethic to keep trying until you figure it out.

[LOKNLOD]

Part of the reason that some private schools do so well is because the parents are actively involved.

Parents and home life are huge, the single biggest factor in the whole mess.


Growing up, I was in rural OK, so it wasn't like I was being overly bombarded with commie thought, but still...

I went to school, and sometimes had my beliefs challenged. Because they were formed and cemented in the home, by my parents.
Today, most kids go to school, and have their beliefs formed. Because they aren't getting any at home.

We pull kids from the home earlier than ever - some kids are never just "at home", from birth. You've got a couple generations now of kids who are not raised by their parents. They're raised by daycare workers, then by public school teachers.

[Chance]

As a minor aside: my hometown has one high school for a city of +60K. Several years after I graduated high school, the administration decided that students wouldn't be disciplined for disruption or insubordination. I'm not sure what their rationale was, but the administrative overhead of dealing with discipline issues played a role.

You can imagine how that turned out. In the AP classes, things remained fairly copacetic. In non-AP, I'm guessing inmates treat prison guards better than students treated teachers in those classes (that's my speculation; I don't know any prison guards). My step-brother and -sister, who are several years younger than me, reported the noise from neighboring classrooms was distracting.

[RevolverRob]

If we wonder why youth today are so misguided...then we need look no further than at what we choose to focus on in terms of spending priorities. When our annual DoD budget is $585.3 billion and our annual DoEd budget is $77.6 billion - we have no one to blame but ourselves.

It is, indeed, a "culture" problem, but not the culture problem you guys are referring to.

-Rob

[JV_]

When our annual DoD budget is $585.3 billion and our annual DoEd budget is $77.6 billion - we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Schooling and budgets are largely paid by counties and states, not by the Department of Education. NYC spends $24 BILLION all by themselves.

[AMC]

Our family has tried all three....public, private, and now homeschooling. The single biggest factor in private schools and homeschoolers outperforming public schools is that they are self-selecting groups who place a premium on their child's education. Of course, many public school families do as well, but the curve is distorted by the huge number who don't.

As for Common Core...to say I'm not a fan is a huge understatement. Calling it a "loose set of standards" also does not match my experience. Rigid dogmatic nonsense....yeah, closer. We attended the Informational Meeting when our school was adopting Common Core (per the state mandate). There was much enthusiasm from the teachers about the new methods....because they were "new". The presenter described the reading standards as involving "close reading of excerpts of worthy text". If that doesn't sound a bit Orwellian to you...you haven't read Orwell. When I asked the teacher afterwards during Q&A, "I know what 'reading' is, but what is 'close reading'?", I was told I'd have to check the County Board of Ed's website for that. I then asked what a 'worthy text' was, and who got to decide what was worthy....same answer (and the website had no answers either). When my child's teacher approached me smiling and asked if I was enthusiastic about the new curriculum, I told her I was disturbed that none of the "educators" in the room could define terms from their new "educational vocabulary" as they called it. I also pointed out that the new standards were totally unproven, totally untried anywhere, that there was no empirical basis for her enthusiasm, and that I was appalled that no one in the room seemed to understand or be bothered by that fact. She looked at me like I had been swearing at her in Pashto. She didn't understand what I was saying, but she knew she didn't like it!

[RevolverRob]

Schooling and budgets are largely paid by counties and states, not by the Department of Education. NYC spends $24 BILLION all by themselves.

New York City is also the most populous city in the United States, therefore has the highest county-income to raise to spend. And it's still a sad statement that the annual budget for NYC is equivalent to 1/3rd the annual budget from the Fed.

Also, we don't just spend DoD dollars on defensive spending, department of energy contributes some significant monies. If we include the massive amount of money we spend/spent since 9/11 fighting terrorism, to include the formation of new DHS/NSA/FBI programs. The amount of money we spend spying on our own citizens the amount of money spent on the Kabuki Theater that is the TSA - it is even more appalling. Even more abhorrent and horrendously appalling is the amount of money we have spent on the War on (Some) Drugs™ and how that directly relates to the War on (Some) Terror™.

We have seriously fucked priorities in this country from the top down. If folks sleep better at night knowing that the Air Force has spent as much building a handful of jets as for what the city of New York spent on educating its kids (poorly at that) - Then that's cool. But don't go blaming Twitter/Pop Culture when the blame lies squarely with the person you're looking at in the mirror in the morning.

This country is circling the drain, not because of Yeezy or Taylor Swift, but because smart people have been diverted from paying attention to the political corruption, shit education, and horrific governmental oversight that has crept into our lives. Instead, we have been taught to do as we're told, sit down, shut up, and don't you dare speak out of turn. Dare to question the regime? Try telling the TSA you don't want to walk through a backscatter X-Ray. Dare to buck the governmental trend? Tell DoD we need to cut spending by 60% and to start with shit that is broke. Dare to buck the social trend? We should never have fought wars in Afghanistan or Iraq. We spent billions (maybe trillions), to exact an unsatisfying revenge for the deaths of 2,977 people on September 11, 2001. Do we ever consider how ludicrous this is/was?

But hey, let's talk about #BlackLivesMatter as the reason our kids are misguided. Not the fact that kids born since the year 2000, who are now in High School by the by, have watched their nation fight two wars, that killed thousands of troops, contractors, and injured tens of thousands more, and displaced millions in those and surrounding countries. All in the name of what? Kids, now some of whom can drive, have never flown on an airplane without taking off their shoes...or never not been subject to intrusive governmental spying under the (not-so) Patriot(ic) Act™. It's astounding to me that so many smart folks have the cognitive dissonance to be able to blame #HashTagCulture but keep voting for the #ScumBagPoliticians who are in charge.

Or let's spin it another way...if Terrorism is bad, Drugs are bad, spending public funds on education is bad, spending public funds on health is bad - then what the hell is GOOD?

[JV_]

it's still a sad statement that the annual budget for NYC is equivalent to 1/3rd the annual budget from the Fed. I disagree.

Education should not be a federal issue at all. The federal spending on education should be $0, or nearly $0.

States and local districts pay $1.3 TRILLION on education.

[RevolverRob]

I disagree.

Education should not be a federal issue at all. The federal spending on education should be $0, or nearly $0.

Well, you are free to disagree. I disagree with you. We have seen time and time again, that local jurisdictions, particularly small ones, will choose to educate students at the most substandard or incomplete levels. The inability of local jurisdictions to adequately educate students means Federal Level work will have to come into play. Sorry, I no more think that students in NYC shouldn't know Texas State history than I think students in Texas shouldn't have to read Fahrenheit 451, because it is offensive. Everyone should be smarter than that, but clearly aren't. I'm not normally for increased federal oversight, but the long and short is, local educational control has had its chance and shown to be ineffective. Cut defensive spending, increase educational spending. Make knowledge and learnedness a priority not warfare.

-Rob

[JV_]

The inability of local jurisdictions to adequately educate students means Federal Level work will have to come into play. So you think we need more programs like "No Child Left Behind" and Common Core?

The federal government's involvement in education means more dollars being used to push political ideas, by political appointees.

[gkieser92]

When comparing cost per student, check to see how many special ed students are covered. They can be very expensive.

Part of the reason that some private schools do so well is because the parents are actively involved. The parents who don't care leave their kids in the default public school, and the teachers there have to make the best of it.

It's easy to teach folks who want to learn. Motivating people who don't care is frustrating, and I understand why those teachers burn out.

In our state reimbursement for special education students is capped at 11% of the student body. That means you get no extra funding if you have more than 11% of your students in Sped. However, there is no mandate to spend the extra dollars on Special Education students themselves.

[JDB]

I disagree.

Education should not be a federal issue at all. The federal spending on education should be $0, or nearly $0.

States and local districts pay $1.3 TRILLION on education.

Concur, heartily.

I'd much rather take my chances with locals screwing up public education, where the citizen's complaints can mean something...rather than leave it up to the hammer of the federal government. I don't think lack of money is the problem at all, there seems to be an inverse relationship between dollars spent per student and academic results.

And that's not to get the DoD off the hook...I'd like to see more spent there, but yes there's a ton waste there too.

[JAD]

I went to school, and sometimes had my beliefs challenged. Because they were formed and cemented in the home, by my parents.
Today, most kids go to school, and have their beliefs formed. Because they aren't getting any at home.

That's a great way of phrasing the distinction. Here's hoping you raise lots of kids, even if you are a soul-stealer.

It tears a hole in my black little capitalist heart, but the fundamental evil here is greed, on the big and small scales. It makes us market people into a frenzy to buy, which makes them feel like they're below the poverty line if every pair of eyes isn't paired with a $750 iPhone, which drives us to go back to our dual incomes from the second Hilary no longer considers the kid a reproductive right. I imagine the world would be a lot different if we found a way to keep a parent in the house for the first five years (and keep parents married for that length of time).

I don't think too many people would argue that's a nice idea. The method differs. I think people can /choose/ to be better if they have a firm moral foundation that devalues consumerism and works to preserve and improve marriage. I think the best example of how well this ethic can be implemented is found among devout folks who homeschool, and I admire them tremendously.

[Jeep]

Well, you are free to disagree. I disagree with you. We have seen time and time again, that local jurisdictions, particularly small ones, will choose to educate students at the most substandard or incomplete levels. The inability of local jurisdictions to adequately educate students means Federal Level work will have to come into play. Sorry, I no more think that students in NYC shouldn't know Texas State history than I think students in Texas shouldn't have to read Fahrenheit 451, because it is offensive. Everyone should be smarter than that, but clearly aren't. I'm not normally for increased federal oversight, but the long and short is, local educational control has had its chance and shown to be ineffective. Cut defensive spending, increase educational spending. Make knowledge and learnedness a priority not warfare.

-Rob

Rob:

Two points.

First, our Constitution gives the federal government only specifically enumerated powers. One of them is defense. Education isn't mentioned, and in the years since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education, educational results have continually fallen. The two might not be entirely delinked.

Second, we spend huge sums per capita on education but that money has little effect on outcomes. The District of Columbia spends just under $30,000 per student per year. Over 60% of its students drop out and very few students receive a quality education. Multiple cities in New Jersey spend almost as much--almost always with the same results.

Meanwhile, Catholic elementary schools in the same areas spend $5,000-6,000 per year and get far better results from kids of the same ethnic groups. Why? Far more parent involvement, far less bureaucracy and far more freedom for teachers to teach rather than following this year's educational fad. Similarly, many public schools throughout the US get very good results on less than $10,000 per year per student. Again the reasons are the same.

Money doesn't equal quality (as the Pentagon also routinely proves). In education, good teachers not saddled with the latest educational fad and involved, responsible parents lead to far better results. When you throw money at a bad school district in which bad teachers are protected and good ones driven out, you won't get any improvement. Mark Zuckerberg proved that with his gift to the Newark schools. In the end, every penny was wasted.

Unfortunately, the federal government tends to throw money and fads at problems that can't be fixed that way. It does that in the DOD and the DOE (and many other government programs).

[AMC]

The primary motivator for most of our educational "experimentation" by progressive educational bureaucrats (which is almost all of them, especially at the Fed level) is closing racial achievement gaps. Equality of results is their holy grail, and inequality anywhere for any reason their original sin. A problem, though, is that many "progressives" secretly harbor the racial prejudices that they project on others. They are afraid that there really is a genetic component to achievement. When someone points out that this can't really be true by pointing to minority achievement in private/home schools, or the achievements of ethnic minority immigrants in education, and then suggests that culture, the value placed on education in the family/community, and individual behavior may have something to do with it, they really lose their minds (multiculturalism! white privilege!). Again, I think this is because the progressive movement was founded in racist beliefs (i.e. early 20th century eugenics), and it's still part of their DNA. They really don't want to believe it is a cultural/individual thing.

[AMC]

Back to Voodoomans original post....I too have seen an increase in this type of 'education' in inner city schools. This varies by region of course (won't see it much in Marin or Sonoma Counties!), but it isn't surprising in urban areas. Young teachers tend to be unrealistic idealists, and their own training usually takes a lefty bend. Take idealistic young minority educators....train them in lefty schools, add a dose of urban street activism, and presto! The Black Panthers, Angela Davis, Mumia Abu Jamal, and Malcolm X are the new Founding Fathers. Anything else is 'white history'. It is doing a horrible disservice to these young people....but the 'mainstream' political and education establishments not only tolerate, they encourage it. I happen to agree with the statement of Stacy Dash that this stuff shouldn't be taught as "Black History"....it's just part of American History. At least, that's how we're teaching it.

[Gray222]

Back to Voodoomans original post....I too have seen an increase in this type of 'education' in inner city schools. This varies by region of course (won't see it much in Marin or Sonoma Counties!), but it isn't surprising in urban areas. Young teachers tend to be unrealistic idealists, and their own training usually takes a lefty bend. Take idealistic young minority educators....train them in lefty schools, add a dose of urban street activism, and presto! The Black Panthers, Angela Davis, Mumia Abu Jamal, and Malcolm X are the new Founding Fathers. Anything else is 'white history'. It is doing a horrible disservice to these young people....but the 'mainstream' political and education establishments not only tolerate, they encourage it. I happen to agree with the statement of Stacy Dash that this stuff shouldn't be taught as "Black History"....it's just part of American History. At least, that's how we're teaching it.

I think anti-mainstream right activists like Dash are on the right track.

I even made this comment at work a few times and people are like "you got a problem with black people?" As if! :rolleyes:

Seriously though, it's a huge issue and the only way we are going to get around it is if we start having the same type of talking points the left seems to use constantly.

[fixer]

I think that Voodooman's point is not that:

Teachers are mindless idiots
the school system sucks
common core sucks
Federal gov't spends too much on guns, not enough on butter

But that youth today have a warped and increasingly distorted of role models to look up to for inspiration.

Things are backwards. In 10 years people will still be memorializing Michael Brown instead of reminiscing of the heroics of Officer Wilson; that officer Darren Wilson is the de-facto criminal and not M. Brown.

[Gray222]

I think that Voodooman's point is not that:

Teachers are mindless idiots
the school system sucks
common core sucks
Federal gov't spends too much on guns, not enough on butter

But that youth today have a warped and increasingly distorted of role models to look up to for inspiration.

Things are backwards. In 10 years people will still be memorializing Michael Brown instead of reminiscing of the heroics of Officer Wilson; that officer Darren Wilson is the de-facto criminal and not M. Brown.


One thing I do is not mention the names of criminals, and I always mention the names of the "hero" of that encounter, which is always the police officer.

Furthermore, there is much more to it than just having warped role models, it is the fact that the younger generation is not being taught through hardships and needs, they are taught through hedonistic wants and desire.