LittleLebowski's big inspirational chainsaw thread

[LittleLebowski]

I don't have a ton of experience with chainsaws but I have some. I have mechanical aptitude. I understand that I'll need chaps, gloves, and safety glasses.

I have 5 acres and lots of trees. I am on a budget and am happy buying used. Eyeing a local Stihl 41 Farm Boss for $200. Usage will be felling a handful of trees a year and cutting up dead trees in manageable portions.

[Cookie Monster]

I love chainsaw and running a chainsaw probably as much or more than shooting. I know I run a chainsaw a lot more than I shoot.

What size trees?

The farm and ranch series of Stihl saws will probably meet your needs really well. I am a Stihl fanboy though. I find Stihl just a little more refined and a little nicer than the Husky. I would stick to those two brands and buy my saw out of a chainsaw/small motor shop (not a big box store) or serviced by a nearby one. Buying used is fine if you can find a saw in good condition. That is where you will find everything you need and support from folks that should know saws or have the used saw looked over by them.

In my area a brand new MS 271 Farm Boss is running $409. It is hard to tell what vintage the Stihl you are looking at is but I would be looking around for something used with the 100 sort of designator: 261, 271, 362, 441 etc. I am just stating some numbers, the new saws will be more efficient and just nicer to run. I might stay away from something in the 1980's or 1990's vintage just due to finding parts and advances in chainbrakes and starting and the like.

Baby crying....

[LittleLebowski]

Not terribly large trees, most are 8" or less. Understood on something more modern.

[serialsolver]

I don't know what is worse, running a chain saw or trying to start a chain saw. They just wear me out cause of the weight or pulling on them. I use a sawzall for all my cutting chores. Much lighter. If it's too big for the sawzall then I use the chain saw. With a long wood blade you can cut some big things. I've cut down some 6" trees with them. I use a cordless one and I'm good for about three batteries and then I'm worn out. For a lot of cutting I did get a power converter for my pickup to run a corded sawzall. I have a cordless dewalt and a corded black & decker. When I was in construction I used a Milwaukee. All them are good tools. I hope this helps.


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[pablo]

Sharp chains are the key to easy cutting. I have a Garret Wade electric chain sharpener that is good enough, if you're a sharpening perfectionist it would probably not be a good choice. I can get a sharper chain by hand but the electric sharpener is much faster.

[LittleLebowski]

Sharp chains are the key to easy cutting. I have a Garret Wade electric chain sharpener that is good enough, if you're a sharpening perfectionist it would probably not be a good choice. I can get a sharper chain by hand but the electric sharpener is much faster.

Definitely not a sharpening perfectionist :D

[farscott]

I suggest the Stihl MS 251 Wood Boss, which is one of the homeowner's (light duty) lines sold by dedicated Stihl dealers. The distributor suggested retail price is $330. It is designed to handle up to 12" trees and is designed to run 2-4 days per week. If you shop carefully, you can find it new for less than $300. I rather spend the extra $100 on a new unit than take my chances with someone's abused discard.

[Cookie Monster]

Sharp chains are the key to easy cutting. I have a Garret Wade electric chain sharpener that is good enough, if you're a sharpening perfectionist it would probably not be a good choice. I can get a sharper chain by hand but the electric sharpener is much faster.

Happiness is a sharp chain. It is hard to describe the joy of putting a fresh chain on and the feeling of butter and nice big chips flying. People tend to get hurt and frustrated muscling around dull chainsaw. The more you can keep the bar from hitting the ground or cutting on dirty wood the better off you are.

I have 12 chains for each saw and just rotate through them. When they are all dull, I take them to the saw shop to get sharpened. I am on the never hand file, not worth my time extreme. Having one or two extra chains around is a great idea.

With 8 inch trees, a 16 inch bar should be fine. I would avoid a 12 inch bar, a little extra reach is nice and a saw running a 12 inch bar would bog down in an 8 inch tree.

[Malamute]

I'm a Stihl fanboi also. If not terribly neglected, it isn't that hard to start. I've left them a year or two, with no sta-bil or anything else, and they started without much drama.

I only have a half dozen chains, and usually sharpen them with a small electric sharpener that I can run off a car battery if in the field. Chain saw is my favorite carpentry tool. Havent been able to run one for a while, but hopefully will in the future again. There have been some clever electric start modifications done to saws.

Half the fun of log work is using the chain saw.

[Lester Polfus]

Three years ago we went from living in an apartment in the suburbs to buying 6 acres on the border of the Gifford Pinchot National Forest in the foothills of the Cascades. We heat primarily with wood in the winter. For the past two years I've gotten a wood permit from the Forest Service, good for 4 cords, and split it with my neighbor, so we each haul out two cords a piece. I've also felled several trees on my property. I still have all my limbs.

Until we lived here, I had never even held a chainsaw. We bought a Husqvarna 440 (http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/440-e-series/966955038/) and I have been very happy with it. It will easily cut the 8" trees you referenced and bigger. It bogs a little bit on some of the really big downed logs I've cut, but it doesn't matter since they are already on the ground and I can take my time. It's light enough that I don't get worn out slinging it around when bucking wood or limbing, but powerful enough for my needs.

I also purchased chaps, gloves and a helmet. (http://www.amazon.com/Husqvarna-531307180-Protective-Powerkit-Professional/dp/B004FR0E1E/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1456606014&sr=8-9&keywords=chainsaw+chaps) If I am cutting wood, I wear this gear. The chaps have a pocket that will hold a scrench and a tourniquet.

I found this book (http://www.amazon.com/Homeowners-Complete-Guide-Chainsaw-Confidently/dp/1565233565/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456606110&sr=8-1&keywords=The+homeowners+guide+to+the+chainsaw) very helpful.

I purchased two extra chains by Husqvarna and their sharpening kit, and have found it pretty easy to sharpen the chain. They make a kit with an extra spark plug, air filter and fuel filter. I buy one every winter and swap everything out. Its overkill, but it's a cheap kit and I've had zero issues with the saw.

I keep the extra chains, sharpening kit, a second scrench, extra filters and plug in a tool bag with some wedges, and my protective gear in a plastic tote, so I have everything for the saw all in once place. That came in handy when we had a tree come down across our road. I could just grab my kit and the gas can and didn't have to go hunting shit up in the middle of the night.

Hope that helps.

[vaspence]

Stihl has been great to us for years. I keep a 210 with a 16" bar around the house here in suburbia. A 10lb or lighter Stihl is a handy homeowner saw. I use it much more than our larger Stihls which now reside at the farm and it'll handle the occasional storm dropped larger tree with no problem. I'd probably look at a new 211 if I were going to replace it.

[ACP230]

I used to cut up eight cords of delivered wood a year with a chain saw.
I think it was a Sachs-Dolmar. Good saw. A friend talked me into getting that brand.
He'd been using them for a long time.

Quit heating with wood when we moved into the house we are in now.
Still got the saw somewhere.

We also had a small Remington electric chain saw. My father-in-law left it behind.
My son used it to take down the walls of a shed for my dad.
I never used that one.

[1slow]

Have used Stihls for years. Have my first one O38 Super AV. Since 44, MS660, MS200, 020 Top Handle. Old 090 as a toy it is a little too much.

Until they changed to alcohol in gas never had any trouble. Get a gas dock of no alcohol gas. Do not let gas sit in saws for months. Turns to varnish.

Go to a dealer and get at least a farm ranch grade saw. Big box saws are often like putting a HK label on a Taurus. Several good saw brands out there. Where I am, SC, Stihl and Husky have good dealer support.

Buy 3-5 good chains, keep them sharp. I don't cut as much any more but when I do it may be a necessity and take all day.

Bear in mind this is one of the most dangerous tools out there. The day you do not worry a little bit about it getting you SELL IT.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

The 41 Farm Boss is a good saw. The 038AV is similar but a little less vibey to run for long periods and I prefer it, but you'd have to find one. They're not hen's teeth but people tend to keep them (as the post above indicates).

If the Farm Boss is convenient to pick up I doubt you'll be disappointed. If you want to scrounge around, you can get some great deals on Homelite saws which get overlooked and sold cheap but are great saws.

Or if you can con someone out of their 38, that's a really pro-grade machine in the same size package as the Farm Boss.

[Malamute]

Until they changed to alcohol in gas never had any trouble. Get a gas dock of no alcohol gas. Do not let gas sit in saws for months. Turns to varnish.

Theres websites that show where to get gas without ethanol. When looking in my area, the premium grade gas is whats most often shown as ethanol free.

http://www.pure-gas.org/

I haven't had much trouble with varnish forming. I think the oil mixed in with the gas helps in that regard, same as drying out in the carburetor.

Back when The End Of The World! was about to happen, my dad bought a 30 gal drum of fuel for his generator. He didn't want to mess with it, and gave it to me several years later. Like 6 or so years. It did smell like varnish. I mixed it with fresh gas and burned it up in my Nissan pickup. It was a little sluggish, but didn't seem to cause any major issues. It hadn't had sta-bil in it. I think it probably helps, but I tend to forget it when getting fuel that may end up sitting around a while. I used to keep a few drums of fuel around for my work truck, it would occasionally go a couple years before Id use it up. So far so good.

[BJXDS]

Sthil 170 or 180 Easy start will be all you need for 8-12 inch trees. Keep the chains out of the dirt ant they will stay sharp a LONG time, but since that aint gonna happen starting out.... buy several. And Runnin a chain saw is almost as much fun as shooting,

[butler coach]

After having sthil and husquvarna over the years. I tend to like the husky more. Seem easier to start. I would say the best one is one with a local dealer not some box store an actual dealer. As for prices and chains. Hard to beat www.baileysonline.com after you get comfortable cutting switching to a pro chain with a steeper pitch and no low kickback links will cut much better.


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[hufnagel]

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/homeowner-saws/ms250/

I bought one of those after Irene hit. Best investment in a tool I've ever made. That little saw is an animal.

[UNK]

I used to heat solely with wood so I've cut more than my fair share of wood. If you are going to buy used be sure the oiler works. Run it over a slab of concrete and make sure it slings a line of oil. A saw that won't oil is garbage.

[SLG]

I prefer Stihl, but we have Husky too. The Stihl is just easier to use and more refined. I know nothing about their light duty saws, but I have a small pro model (260) and just love it. Had a 261 and it wasn't nearly as nice as the now discontinued 260. I would be very happy picking up a used saw from a small saw shop if it was a few years old and in good condition. My saw shop here tears them all down and fixes what needs fixing before they sell it.

I guess I'm weird, but I enjoy hand filing my chains. I'm far from great at it, but I seem to get them sharper than my shop does, and with less wear on the chain as well. There are some great youtube videos from the Canadian Forestry Service that have a ton of good info, and will make you enjoy caring for your saw.

I ALWAYS wear chaps and a helmet/eye/ear pro. Gloves too.

[UNK]

Super simple to file by hand. Just hit all the teeth on the opposite side its cutting toward. I never used a guide just the correct diameter file for your chains. Also get chipper chains. They are more aggressive cutters.


I prefer Stihl, but we have Husky too. The Stihl is just easier to use and more refined. I know nothing about their light duty saws, but I have a small pro model (260) and just love it. Had a 261 and it wasn't nearly as nice as the now discontinued 260. I would be very happy picking up a used saw from a small saw shop if it was a few years old and in good condition. My saw shop here tears them all down and fixes what needs fixing before they sell it.

I guess I'm weird, but I enjoy hand filing my chains. I'm far from great at it, but I seem to get them sharper than my shop does, and with less wear on the chain as well. There are some great youtube videos from the Canadian Forestry Service that have a ton of good info, and will make you enjoy caring for your saw.

I ALWAYS wear chaps and a helmet/eye/ear pro. Gloves too.

[Luke]

Idk what all has been posted, and to be honest I really didn't even read your original post.

I came here to pass on 2 wisdoms I has about chainsaws.

1. Buy nice name brand. Don't go to Home Depot and buy some consumer piece of crap.

2. Run it out of gas and/or use stabil. Chainsaws never run right for people who don't own a tree service. 99% of the time it's because the carbs are all gummed up. Most people don't use them every weekend which means they sit..


Hopefully this is all new info. It's important info, but I just can't read 3 pages of chainsaw thread lol

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I prefer Stihl, but we have Husky too. The Stihl is just easier to use and more refined. I know nothing about their light duty saws, but I have a small pro model (260) and just love it. Had a 261 and it wasn't nearly as nice as the now discontinued 260. I would be very happy picking up a used saw from a small saw shop if it was a few years old and in good condition. My saw shop here tears them all down and fixes what needs fixing before they sell it.

I guess I'm weird, but I enjoy hand filing my chains. I'm far from great at it, but I seem to get them sharper than my shop does, and with less wear on the chain as well. There are some great youtube videos from the Canadian Forestry Service that have a ton of good info, and will make you enjoy caring for your saw.

I ALWAYS wear chaps and a helmet/eye/ear pro. Gloves too.

Well, DUH.

The Huskys are usually a bit harsher to run but they're also lighter and faster...the big felling saws up here are all huskys but then you're into giant saws which obviously are totally not applicable to this anyway. In the mid-size saws I think the Stihls are a lot more forgiving.

Somewhere I have a nice old Husky that belonged to my grandfather, then my father. My dad never liked using chainsaws on account of the noise so he cut 4-8 cords a year with a 42" bow saw. Which reminds me of the old joke about the swede and the chainsaw:

Sven had cut firewood by hand with a bow saw for fifty years, until the last bit of tooth had worn off his saw. He drove slowly into town to pick up a new blade at the hardware store, where he saw his first chainsaw.

"These things are amazing," said the salesman. "You'll cut ten times the wood you used to!" So old Sven bought the chainsaw.

The first couple days were not very productive--he only cut one cord each day. By the third day he had cut 3 cords but was dead tired. "Ja, it's no good," he thought to himself, "The salesman said it would be better, so it must be broken."

The next day he was in the hardware store complaining to the sales clerk about his lack of production. "Blade seems a little dull, but not that bad. Let's start it up," the clerk muttered as he pulled the starting cord.

"Vat's dat noise?"

[SLG]

Well, DUH.

The Huskys are usually a bit harsher to run but they're also lighter and faster...the big felling saws up here are all huskys but then you're into giant saws which obviously are totally not applicable to this anyway. In the mid-size saws I think the Stihls are a lot more forgiving.

Somewhere I have a nice old Husky that belonged to my grandfather, then my father. My dad never liked using chainsaws on account of the noise so he cut 4-8 cords a year with a 42" bow saw. Which reminds me of the old joke about the swede and the chainsaw:

Sven had cut firewood by hand with a bow saw for fifty years, until the last bit of tooth had worn off his saw. He drove slowly into town to pick up a new blade at the hardware store, where he saw his first chainsaw.

"These things are amazing," said the salesman. "You'll cut ten times the wood you used to!" So old Sven bought the chainsaw.

The first couple days were not very productive--he only cut one cord each day. By the third day he had cut 3 cords but was dead tired. "Ja, it's no good," he thought to himself, "The salesman said it would be better, so it must be broken."

The next day he was in the hardware store complaining to the sales clerk about his lack of production. "Blade seems a little dull, but not that bad. Let's start it up," the clerk muttered as he pulled the starting cord.

"Vat's dat noise?"

Funny:-)


Yeah, the Northerners seem to like those big Husky's. Proof to me that the brand doesn't matter as much as the guy running it. As you said though, the smaller saws are a little different, and for the closest identical model from each company, we prefer our Stihl. Regardless, those videos are a gold mine, and it is fascinating to me to see pro loggers at work. Faster and smoother than any competition shooter:-)

[SJC3081]

I cut ,split and burn 15 full cords a year. I use a Heatmaster MF 5000 outdoor boiler to heat my home. My saw is MS 362.
If I could find a good condition Farm Boss for $200 I would be ecstatic. Great saw great price.

[LittleLebowski]

Reading every post and researching like a madman. Thanks, gents.

[David S.]

Get it from a certified retailer.

Husky and Stihl are the big boys, but don't forget Echo. They all make saws in professional grade, farm/ranch (mid-grade), and homeowner (consumer-crap) grade.

Stay away from the homeowner grade and you should be fine, but I would really try to get the best you can afford. Lifetime investment and all that. Maybe a lightly used pre-owned. I spent a month or so searching the different chainsaw snob forums before I settled on an Echo, but the Stihl 261 (Pro grade) came up over and over again.

Also, I don't recall if it was mentioned but consider adding some good chainsaw chaps to you list of PPE.

[JV_]

Get it from a certified retailer. He has a Stihl dealer about 5 minutes from his office...

[vaspence]

I was talking about this to some of the guys down at the farm today and we all agree. You are going to want to pick up the Stihl backpack blower at the same time!:D

[LittleLebowski]

Researching this like a madman. I can't endure anymore "PoorFag!" emails from SLG :D

[LittleLebowski]

What is a good all around light duty bar length?

[Cookie Monster]

What is a good all around light duty bar length?

My vote would be a 20 inch bar but West Coast guys tend to think larger, than East Coasters.

It is a mix of the reach you want and the power of the powerhead to run it. If you truly need to cut something over the bar length on occasion, there are techniques for that. I would get a bar that would be for everyday use/range, not the 1000 yard shot. The smaller the bar, the more precise control I have over it, mainly due to weight of bar/chain/powerhead. If my main job was trimming branches off conifer trees, I would go smaller than a saw for all day bucking rounds.

I run a 362 with a 25 inch bar and a 200T with a 16 inch bar - it's original duty was carving notches for fence braces. I've run saws up to a 460 with a 28 inch bar, that size saw I can run for a tank of gas or two. My 362 maybe 3 tanks of gas. A 261 with an 18 inch bar, all day.

6213

[LittleLebowski]

My budget is $300 or under. Sorry, gents. Got a family and one income.

[vaspence]

I'd go with a 16" bar. We have longer but the around the house 210 with a 16" bar does everything we need and is a great walking saw length/weight (trimming hunting roads, trails, tree stand areas, etc).

[pablo]

What is a good all around light duty bar length?

For the 8" trees you mentioned 14" should be fine. The longer you go with unneeded length the more likely you are to jam your chain into stuff you didn't want when using the bumper spikes.

Edited: What kind of trees are you cutting?

[butler coach]

14-16 inch is all you need. Depends on the kind of trees you are cutting but a 16 inch and sharp chain you can cut a lot


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[GOTURBACK]

Having used a chainsaw 5 days a week for 25 years I have a good reference to what works, I have used them all (Brands and Sizes) from 55" 100cc saws to my Husky 335 14" climbing saw. I only "own" Husky saws, Stihl's are good saws but I personally am not a fan of Stihl's integral choke/throttle lock system I prefer Husky's choke system which I can modulate to be partially on for warming in cold weather something the Stihl's system does not allow for. (some models of Husqvarna mainly the non-professional use saws do now have integrated choke/throttle systems). My reccomendation to you would be to get a saw around 45cc to 50cc with a 16" to 20" bar here are a few that I would reccomend one which meets your budget and two which are more costly the 543XP is really worth the extra $$ and is what I personally would buy if I were buying that class/size of chainsaw.

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/435/965167501/
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/545/966648501/
hhttp://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/545/966648501/

[LittleLebowski]

Well, my brain hurts from the chainsaw research (and the four stitches in my forehead). Every time I think I had found a solid recommendation, it's either out of my price range or unavailable used. Then I get off on another fruitless search. So I sort of impulse bought a Poulan 5520AV (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052EL9YU/) after I read this entire thread on it here at Arboristsite (http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/bought-a-new-poulan-pro-5020-to-see-what-there-about.192321/).

I fully realize this is not a pro-grade saw but it is made by Husqvarna and after my Champion generator carb rebuild by the light of a headlamp during a power outage and storm last summer, I am confident I can learn to maintain this machine.

I now need to shop for PPE (Personal Protective Equipment). This will be on a budget as well, even used if I see the right deal.

My property is mainly red oak and white oak and there is real potential for walking trails.

This has been an intensive learning process and I really appreciate everyone taking the time to educate me. The process is still on going. I have been watching chainsaw usage videos as suggested by SLG and it is astounding what I did not know.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Arboristsite is the Mecca for the information you are looking for. Don't get too wrapped up over the brand and model wars you see over there, it's similar to the manufacturer preferences seen on most gun forums.

If you are looking for an effective chain sharpener as a beginner, I would highly recommend the Timberline Chain Sharpener. There is a thread on AS about it and you can buy one on baileya online or Amazon. Clips right to the bar and you don't have to worry about angles.

As for bar length, if you are cutting oak with that saw don't push it. A 20" bar is nice, but you need a lot of torque and power to consistently run it in hard wood like oak. I would recommend sticking to something like a 16" with that saw if you plan on doing a lot of cutting. I run a 25" bar but my saw is 70cc and is ported.

Good on you for getting the safety gear. I know a lot of guys who are too cool for that kind of stuff. I know a lot of former cool guys with big scars too. I got my Husky chaps on eBay for almost half price new in the packaging.

[ffhounddog]

I have the 18 inch polon pro PP4218A for my two acres at my place. Have used it some and it worked well with some 10 inch diamater trees. I have been using an electric 14 inch chainsaw by greenworks for around the house that has an extended poll for limb cutting. Ironically the green works has been used for 80 percent of my jobs around the house because its pretty mobile and just easy.

[archangel]

Well, my brain hurts from the chainsaw research (and the four stitches in my forehead). Every time I think I had found a solid recommendation, it's either out of my price range or unavailable used. Then I get off on another fruitless search. So I sort of impulse bought a Poulan 5520AV (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052EL9YU/) after I read this entire thread on it here at Arboristsite (http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/bought-a-new-poulan-pro-5020-to-see-what-there-about.192321/).

I fully realize this is not a pro-grade saw but it is made by Husqvarna and after my Champion generator carb rebuild by the light of a headlamp during a power outage and storm last summer, I am confident I can learn to maintain this machine.

I now need to shop for PPE (Personal Protective Equipment). This will be on a budget as well, even used if I see the right deal.

My property is mainly red oak and white oak and there is real potential for walking trails.

This has been an intensive learning process and I really appreciate everyone taking the time to educate me. The process is still on going. I have been watching chainsaw usage videos as suggested by SLG and it is astounding what I did not know.


I have the same saw, and I think it was the same thread at ArboristSite that convinced me. It's worked well for me so far, but I admin I have not used it a ton and am a chainsaw noob.

[butler coach]

pick up a copy of jeff jepson's book to fell a tree. lots of good information.

[LittleLebowski]

It shipped to my door in 24 hours. Just got it put together, the chain tensioned, and all topped off so I just had to get it on. No drama cutting up a big old log along the creek that goes through my property. I will do some more work with it this weekend. So far, I quite like it.


http://youtu.be/KC5tMLFqsuI?t=18s

[LittleLebowski]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/12801210_529385230573038_4936106213834284151_n.jpg ?oh=b49eba8582e4ec4a859447aa8ab45fef&oe=57969315

[JV_]

What kind of non-oak hardwoods do you have on the property?

[LittleLebowski]

What kind of non-oak hardwoods do you have on the property?

I need to take a look....:D Need anything?

[JV_]

Apple or cherry would be ideal :cool:

[JV_]

Maple will work too, I'm going to do some Vermont (Maple Glazed) ribs in the near future.

[LittleLebowski]

Maple will work too, I'm going to do some Vermont (Maple Glazed) ribs in the near future.

I need to work on my plant ID skills anyway. Anything you want, any endangered species bothering you on my property, just say the word :D

[LittleLebowski]

Apple or cherry would be ideal :cool:

Come by this week, I think I actually have a dead cherry tree that needs to go.

[JV_]

Sweet. I'll trade you some ribs for the wood.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

If there's bits of cherry wood that aren't spoken for else-wise, here's a thought:

At my wedding, we had this huge slab o' beef, which, for a few days prior, had been smoked.

My best friend's dad had taken a bunch of cherry and apple wood blocks and left them soaking in water for about a month before, then, a few days before the wedding, enclosed the beef slab in a smoker with a charcoal fire at the base. Onto the fire went some chunks of waterlogged apple and cherry wood. Above the fire went a big bowl of water. Above the water went the meat.

The soaking wet wood smoked like crazy and barked the hell out of the meat, and the steam from the bowl of water kept it from drying out. The charcoal, wood, and water would be replenished every 6-8 hours.

It took a few days to cook, but MAN.

So anyway, if you have some oddball bits of cherrywood that have no use for woodworking, well, this would be a potential application.



Since then, my best friend has taken up the torch and we've had slow-smoked chicken halves, sausages, pork loins, briskets, and various other sources of meat diabetes. They have all been incredible. And the process has basically been: make a fire, throw wet wood bits on the fire, pour water in the water bowl, close up the smoker (which has been anything from an oil drum with some shelves in it to a purpose-built aluminum tube with removable grates -it doesn't hurt that both father and son are welders) and leave for a while.



I apologize if this form of cooking is already totally familiar to everyone here but for me it was a totally new experience and I think it's amazing.

[LittleLebowski]

Cut the hardest tree so far with my Poulan 5020 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052EL9YU/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0052EL9YU&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=RSGOUIEX55L3XYEH). It was a downed oak that unfortunately was encrusted with old poison ivy so I couldn't use it for firewood (I know the widow of a man who died from poison ivy smoke inhalation when he made a fire with a closed flue and was using firewood with poison ivy on the bark). The wood seemed pretty tough but I zipped through all of except for the last cut at the bottom of the stump which made me take a break 3/4 of the way through.

The chain appears to be stretching a bit, I am going to take it apart, clean, and re-tension the chain. I understand that this is normal and I've been checking and tightening the chain after each use. I did order a new chain (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004RA7X/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00004RA7X&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=SCDSINT4QZTKL6DU) out of curiosity and a desire to "upgrade" :D

I will be cutting down a tree or two today if the weather holds. I should get the new chain tomorrow and of course I will just have to get it on :D

The Boy just has red paint on his face from an arts and crafts activity with his mother earlier.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12321265_538227663022128_3237541421162110513_n.jpg ?oh=7e17fa88658e83786f634bafc1c587c1&oe=57877A43

[LittleLebowski]

Just cut down another tree, this chain is getting dull quick :D

[Drang]

They do that. Many years ago I borrowed my father in law's chain saw, we wound up getting sharpened twice, once before I could use it, and then once afterwards as a birthday present.

I was, of course, prohibited from telling him that I had to get it sharpened before I could use it. (Kinda wonder if he knew, but he wasn't the sort to neglect his tools.)

[Welder]

Just cut down another tree, this chain is getting dull quick :D

A few thoughts for you:

1) Don't retension a chain on a hot saw - let it cool down first or you'll have the chain WAY too tight when it returns to ambient temp.

2) Good quality chains stretch a little when new, then don't really stretch much after that unless they are running dry or are running dull and overheating.

A) When cleaning your saw, one of the most important areas to clean is the bar groove. There are tools made for this, or you can come up with something on your own. A crudded-up bar groove won't allow the chain to oil properly. Don't forget to clean out the oil entrance holes in the bar at the same time.

B) Flip the bar from time to time to keep it wearing evenly. Use a flat file to keep the burr off of it (obviously do this with chain removed). The burr will build up to the point it will hang in the cut and you'll think there's something wrong with the chain.

3) I prefer Stihl chains. Lesser chains, like Oregon, are noticeably easy to sharpen, ergo, they are also easier to dull. There are pro-grade chains made without the safety links. These chains are faster-cutting and make plunge cuts easy at the cost of increased danger of kickback. Stihl chains of this type have a yellow-labeled box instead of the green label. Better to not buy this type of chain until you have some experience; some stores won't sell it to homeowners anyway.

4) Keep the chain out of the dirt...flush-cut your stumps a couple inches above ground level if you're using a good chain. Also be aware that trees on old fencerows are full of blown dust and dirt from farming, and they'll dull your chain like nobody's business. Certain trees like Osage Orange will also dull your chain just because of how hard the wood is. I've actually seen sparks fly from Osage before.

5) As mentioned above, once you slow down on the cutting, dump the saw's gas and then run the carb empty if you aren't going to run the saw for a couple of weeks. The disposed fuel can be run through another gas or diesel engine as long as the tank is big enough to dilute it. I run 93 octane ethanol-free fuel in all of my 2-strokes.

Hope some of this helps.

[Welder]

Just noticed the lack of chain tension in your pic. Def needs to be tightened - loose chains have an increased danger of coming off and making a mess of themselves.

Don't know how your owner's manual tells you to do it, but here's what I do to tighten a chain:

THIS IS ASSUMING YOUR BAR GROOVE IS ALREADY CLEAN. If it isn't, best to clean it first.

1) Loosen the bolt(s) holding the chain cover to the saw.

2) Hold or block the nose of the bar up. Chain brake off.

3) Rotate the chain a few inches to be sure it's free and not stuck on anything.

4) While holding the bar nose up, tighten the adjuster and watch the chain come up against the bottom of the bar. As soon as it touches the bottom of the bar, it's tight enough. More tension will make it wear out prematurely and will cost power.

5) While still holding the bar nose up, tighten your chain cover bolt(s). If there are two, tighten the rear one first. Then pull the chain down and let it snap back into the bar. You do this because often tightening the cover will change the tension of the chain and then you need to do it over until you get it right. The chain should have only enough tension that it pulls itself completely back into the bar when you let go of it. Spin it a full rotation and snap it again. If still good, go cut wood. If not, adjust again.

[LittleLebowski]

Excellent posts, Tbone550! Thank you!

Yes, the chain was loose in that picture but that was after the day's work was done. It was indeed pretensioned before its next round of work but I should have cleaned the bar out first. I figured that out earlier this afternoon, right before your excellent posts.

Your bit on exactly how tight the chain needs to be was very enlightening, much thanks and filed away for later. I did flip the bar as well.

I prefer to stick with the anti-kickback chains for the immediate future. I will look into a Stihl next.

Got any well written and simple tips on carb tuning? :D

[JV_]

Got any well written and simple tips on carb tuning? :DIf you mess it up and need some help fixing it, let me know. I've rebuilt a carb or two.

[LittleLebowski]

If you mess it up and need some help fixing it, let me know. I've rebuilt a carb or two.

I shall, last year I did a lot of work on the carb on my generator but I think all I need to do is use the external tuning screws "H" and "L" on this saw. I may not need to do anything at all, who knows? It sure is running better, I took down another part of that tree I cut down when you showed up.

[Welder]

Got any well written and simple tips on carb tuning? :D

I don't know about 'well-written,' but I can tell you what I know.

First off, you need to be careful or you can lean out your engine and burn it up. This usually happens to people who set the high-speed mixture (H) screw improperly.

1) I usually set the low speed mixture (L) screw to wherever I get the best throttle response from the engine. Too lean and the RPM's will 'hang' when you let off the throttle. I want fast, clean throttle response including a crisp return to idle.

2) The idle speed screw will have to be adjusted in tandem with the L screw - these work together and their adjustments affect each other. You want your idle to be low enough that the chain won't turn with the brake off. You should never rely on the brake to keep the chain from turning on an 'idling' saw. The brake is kind of like a safety - you should use it, but it shouldn't be your first / only line of defense.

Be aware that the engine will idle at different speeds depending on how hot it is. The chain should NEVER turn at idle, regardless of engine temp, with a properly-tensioned chain. A loose chain will creep along the bar at idle - this is a chain tension problem and not an idle speed problem.

3) The H screw is tricky until you know what to listen for. Some youtube vids might help you out on this. Basically you want the engine to "4-stroke" when not under load and held wide open. Then when you get it into the wood, the engine sound will clean up and will "2-stroke." This is a properly-set high-speed mixture. If your engine doesn't 4-stroke at wide open / no load, your mixture is set too lean and you're causing damage. If it won't 2-stroke under load, it's running way too rich and probably isn't reaching optimal RPM's - probably weak also.

The 2-stroke sound is a clean scream. The 4-stroke is more of a 'contaminated' noise...not sure how else to describe it but again a youtube video will help.

Modern saws only allow mixture adjustment within a small range - you aren't going to get much if any extra power out of it with the limiters on. With them off and the muffler opened up, you might get some more power and will definitely get more noise. Any muffler mods MUST be accompanied by the appropriate richening of the mixture screws or your gains will be short-lived.

So I know I'm being perfectly clear, let me say that it's very unlikely that you'll have enough mixture adjustment range to safely muffler-mod your saw without removing the carb mixture adjustment limiters. So don't just hack up your muffler, turn the screws a 1/2 turn rich to where they hit the limiters and think you're set.

I personally don't mod my saws beyond removing the spark screens in the MS200T's or putting factory dual-port mufflers on the bigger ones. A sharp chain on a well-made saw should really be all you need.

Finally, expect to need to eventually rebuild the carb and replace fuel lines somewhat regularly if running ethanol. It's murder on small engine fuel systems.

PS - Another way to get a little more 'power' is to reduce your bar length to only what's needed. It wasn't optimal, but when my big saw was down I removed a 24" pine with my MS200T and a 14" bar. If all you have are 8" trees, a 12" bar will make your saw feel like a Corvette. Plus it's less teeth to sharpen and a cheaper chain to begin with.

[1slow]

I keep a gas doc, 22 gallons, full of 93 octane non alcohol gas.
Buy 3-5 chains if you are going to run hard all day.

[LittleLebowski]

I looked for ethanol-free gas nearby, no dice.

[LittleLebowski]

I don't know about 'well-written,' but I can tell you what I know.

First off, you need to be careful or you can lean out your engine and burn it up. This usually happens to people who set the high-speed mixture (H) screw improperly.

1) I usually set the low speed mixture (L) screw to wherever I get the best throttle response from the engine. Too lean and the RPM's will 'hang' when you let off the throttle. I want fast, clean throttle response including a crisp return to idle.

2) The idle speed screw will have to be adjusted in tandem with the L screw - these work together and their adjustments affect each other. You want your idle to be low enough that the chain won't turn with the brake off. You should never rely on the brake to keep the chain from turning on an 'idling' saw. The brake is kind of like a safety - you should use it, but it shouldn't be your first / only line of defense.

Be aware that the engine will idle at different speeds depending on how hot it is. The chain should NEVER turn at idle, regardless of engine temp, with a properly-tensioned chain. A loose chain will creep along the bar at idle - this is a chain tension problem and not an idle speed problem.

3) The H screw is tricky until you know what to listen for. Some youtube vids might help you out on this. Basically you want the engine to "4-stroke" when not under load and held wide open. Then when you get it into the wood, the engine sound will clean up and will "2-stroke." This is a properly-set high-speed mixture. If your engine doesn't 4-stroke at wide open / no load, your mixture is set too lean and you're causing damage. If it won't 2-stroke under load, it's running way too rich and probably isn't reaching optimal RPM's - probably weak also.

The 2-stroke sound is a clean scream. The 4-stroke is more of a 'contaminated' noise...not sure how else to describe it but again a youtube video will help.

Modern saws only allow mixture adjustment within a small range - you aren't going to get much if any extra power out of it with the limiters on. With them off and the muffler opened up, you might get some more power and will definitely get more noise. Any muffler mods MUST be accompanied by the appropriate richening of the mixture screws or your gains will be short-lived.

So I know I'm being perfectly clear, let me say that it's very unlikely that you'll have enough mixture adjustment range to safely muffler-mod your saw without removing the carb mixture adjustment limiters. So don't just hack up your muffler, turn the screws a 1/2 turn rich to where they hit the limiters and think you're set.

I personally don't mod my saws beyond removing the spark screens in the MS200T's or putting factory dual-port mufflers on the bigger ones. A sharp chain on a well-made saw should really be all you need.

Finally, expect to need to eventually rebuild the carb and replace fuel lines somewhat regularly if running ethanol. It's murder on small engine fuel systems.

PS - Another way to get a little more 'power' is to reduce your bar length to only what's needed. It wasn't optimal, but when my big saw was down I removed a 24" pine with my MS200T and a 14" bar. If all you have are 8" trees, a 12" bar will make your saw feel like a Corvette. Plus it's less teeth to sharpen and a cheaper chain to begin with.

Read this whole post twice, it sounds like my saw is running well then.

I am considering an upgrade to a 16" bar, some folks have done that on arboristsite.com and say the Poulan 5020 really rips with that size of bar. I feel like a 16" bar is more than enough for Virginia.

[JV_]

I looked for ethanol-free gas nearby, no dice.

I *think* this is the closest one, and it's not very close: Liberty / 507 N Royal Ave, Front Royal VA

[Cookie Monster]

T-bone had some great posts, really clear good explanation.

I still think folks who adjust those screws are brave. If I start turning screws, it is game over.

[LittleLebowski]

I *think* this is the closest one, and it's not very close: Liberty / 507 N Royal Ave, Front Royal VA

Yup, either buy the expensive premixed stuff or run through the ethanol gas really quickly.

[Drang]

I looked for ethanol-free gas nearby, no dice.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada (http://pure-gas.org/)

[Welder]

I am considering an upgrade to a 16" bar, some folks have done that on arboristsite.com and say the Poulan 5020 really rips with that size of bar. I feel like a 16" bar is more than enough for Virginia.

I'm not familiar with the new Poulans, so can't really comment on that saw and bar combo. I would agree that a 16" bar will do just about everything for the average homeowner. I like saws, used to work with them daily, and have hung onto most of the good ones just because. My stock out in the shop includes an 064, an MS361, an 066 or two that need rebuilds, two or three 020T / MS200T's, and a brand spanking new MS192C which I bought because the 192 line was phasing out and I wanted one even if I had to get that cursed rear handle model because all of the T's were long gone. Of these saws, the only ones I really use these days are an MS200T with 14" bar and the MS361 with a 20". When that 20" goes, I'm going back to an 18" on that saw.

We tend to think of VA as having smaller trees, but I've been in on removal of 6'+ DBH (diameter at breast height) trees here in the Shen Valley, one of which was so hollow that the final cut was made with a crane attached to the log and an MS200T was more than enough to slice through the outer 'shell' of the tree. The inner 4' or so of the log was just air. I think it was an old Sugar or Silver Maple, but could be wrong. Some big Willows around, too.

Good luck with your continued escapades! I'll try to keep track of this thread, but if I can help anybody please don't hesitate to PM with questions - the time I spend on the internet runs in fits and spurts, but a PM will show up in my email inbox.

-Joe

[LittleLebowski]

A busy late afternoon (after I finally got to do "real" work as opposed to hanging curtain rods and spending time with the family).

The saw likes to run right side down, clutch cover down. It dies with the other side down. I think the handle broke, I will post pictures and it is under warranty but it still ran fine and didn't affect my work. The new chain I ordered is the same as the old one, I would like to find an anti-kickback but more aggressive chain and I know I need a sharpening setup.

6750

[Malamute]

The saw likes to run right side down, clutch cover down. It dies with the other side down. I think the handle broke, I will post pictures and it is under warranty but it still ran fine and didn't affect my work. The new chain I ordered is the same as the old one, I would like to find an anti-kickback but more aggressive chain and I know I need a sharpening setup.


For starters, just a proper size round chainsaw file with a guide on it (guide indicates proper angle) will keep your chains sharp. Some seem to dread using them. It only takes a few minutes to touch up the chain. Its all I had for years. The little hand held electric ones with round stones that can hook to your vehicle battery are pretty nice. Its all I use now.

[LittleLebowski]

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada (http://pure-gas.org/)

Thanks but no dice. Just gonna have to burn through the damn subsidized corn crap.

[JM Campbell]

Don't have much to add, but I use vp racing fuel in my 2 stroke lawn equipment. It was recommended by my John Deer dealer.
http://www.vp-sef.com/


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Luke]

VP fuel and some good 2 stroke mix like redline.. Best smell in the WORLD.

[LittleLebowski]

Picked up a new Husquvarna chain, much better cutting.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/DCA8BB61-B3E6-4F1C-B9FB-23D3819CBC75_zpstgidbwaa.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/baxshep/media/DCA8BB61-B3E6-4F1C-B9FB-23D3819CBC75_zpstgidbwaa.jpg.html)

[JM Campbell]

VP fuel and some good 2 stroke mix like redline.. Best smell in the WORLD.
The link is for a premixed fuel oil offered by VP. I've been using it for almost a year and burns pretty clean and not obnoxious fumes.

I wish I used it back in my 1/5 scale 2 stroke rc car days.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

I've been using premixed ethanol free fuel but it's just crazy expensive considering how much work I have to do.

[1slow]

Have used premium gas and AMSOIL at 50/1 for 20 years. Burns clean does not smoke much. Until alcohol premix would stay good for 2 years in a sealed container.
Running Husky 265RX clearing saw, Stihl, 038AV Super, 044, 020T, MS200, MS660 etc...

[LittleLebowski]

I could easily see myself buying another saw because they are fucking cool.

[Welder]

I could easily see myself buying another saw because they are $%^&&* cool.

You might find a small one with 12" bar most useful. A pruning saw is easy on fuel and chains are cheap, too. A 3-saw plan is where you should eventually head.... ;)

1. A small top-handle like the new MS193T (if their rep is good - haven't followed them)

2. A decent midsize, something like an MS261 or MS361 depending on how big your average trees are

3. A medium-large like an MS461 to MS661 depending on how big your biggest flush-cuts will be.


If I had to do without any of the above saws, I'd lose the biggest one in a heartbeat. For once-in-a-blue-moon jobs, you can usually get the job done with a smaller saw running an abnormally large bar on it and skip-tooth chain if necessary, or cut from both sides, etc. I've run the truly big saws like an 084 / MS880 both on the ground and from a bucket, with bars ranging from 36" to 60", and while they seem glamorous on a computer screen, they are 'anything but' when it comes to real life. Heavy, unwieldy beasts that shine only in very limited circumstances. They spend most of their life in the back of the saw compartment being passed over for ANY smaller saw that will do the job.

A small pruning saw, on the other hand, would be one of the last saws to leave my cold fingers. I guess if I needed to stick to a 2-saw plan in VA I'd probably go with an 020T / MS200T / MS201T and an MS361. With those two saws you could do most anything you wouldn't be hiring out, and do it in some semblance of style.

You didn't ask, but people often wonder about buying used for their second saws, or for their first high-quality saw. For several years I bought ebay saws (Stihl only), rebuilt them, and sold them on CL, sometimes for darn good profit but also occasionally at a loss depending on whether I bought it right in the beginning. Buying used can be a crap-shoot even in person mainly because you can't always tell just by running it if a saw has been straight-gassed. If buying used, run it in wood even if you have to bring your own. A saw with a sharp chain that can't pull it's full standard bar length with authority in hardwood is either a pansy (some department store models come to mind) or nearing the time for piston / cylinder work from either wear or abuse. Also or alternatively, compression-test it with an automotive tester. Anything modern and under 130 psi on the gauge is going to be looking at a rebuild soon. 150 psi and above means you're cooking with gas. Less than 110 psi usually won't even start unless it's a brand new saw that hasn't been run and broken in yet (tested a brand new MS201T at 90 psi several years ago). Certain models are also prone to leaks at the crankshaft seals, and somebody who does this seriously will vacuum-test / pressure test the seals on those models. Leaking seals can cause a lean condition and will mimic the same type of piston / cylinder damage caused by straight-gassing or improper carburetor adjustments. Many brand-new pistons / cyls have been immediately ruined by leaking crank seals that went undiagnosed. I'm mainly thinking 026 / MS260 and 036 / MS360 series here; at least those are the ones I was usually replacing seals on.

Rebuilding saws is simple and fun, and I'd be glad to help anybody through it who wants the help. You usually end up replacing the piston / cyl, fuel line, impulse line, and a few random missing parts during a properly-done rebuild. Often a fuel tank vent finds its way into the mix as well. There are extreme difference in price and quality between OEM and aftermarket (generally read: China) pistons and cylinders, but I've used both with different goals in mind and always gotten fine results. The thing that takes the most time rebuilding a saw is getting it spotlessly clean during the teardown - each part removed exposes new areas for cleaning. But the tools and processes involved are very simple and the result can be very rewarding if you're mechanically-minded and into that sort of thing.

[LittleLebowski]

Dang, TBone, must you hate on my lowly Poulan 5020AV? :D

Right now, I'm just using a cordless sawzall for limbing. It works surprisingly well with the right blade.

So, you'd get a 12" or so to compliment a 20" saw?

[LittleLebowski]

I did all of the cutting and splitting (used a cheap maul, I can't afford fancy European axes and mauls like you rich folk :D) myself and then my team of helpers showed up to stack.

Once I figured out the nuances of using and not using the choke on a warm saw and also swapped the chain out for a Husky one, this saw ran like a champ. We are not done with this tree, maybe halfway...

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/B53CA13F-3F6E-478E-A990-4901E7998C24_zpstumblraj.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/C78718C1-F57B-4FF8-9B11-06B8AAF101F1_zpsuyjanvom.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/7A19B64F-7D31-43CF-9BFF-F2B8D027074C_zps07ckfsv2.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/3DC3C60F-EAED-4D4D-B841-5CAC58A6EF6E_zpsprudimej.jpg

[rob_s]

Out of curiosity, why all the cutting?

I'm following this thread with interest. While my measly 1.25 acres does not require a chainsaw for weekly, or even monthly, use I'd feel better having one than not as a storm could wind up blocking us in down the road.

[Digiroc]

I'm a newbee here but this thread caught my attention. I own a tree service and we use Sthil saws exclusively. Lot's of good advice on saws already posted. My advice is keep the bar length appropriate to the power head, big bars on small displacement heads don't work well. Here is a video of a recent big Oak takedown and haul out:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT3xjAQ4uvA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr7eWjI-cOk

[LittleLebowski]

Out of curiosity, why all the cutting?

I'm following this thread with interest. While my measly 1.25 acres does not require a chainsaw for weekly, or even monthly, use I'd feel better having one than not as a storm could wind up blocking us in down the road.

It's a five acre property in woods-heavy Virginia that was on the market and unoccupied/neglected for two years. Trees grow in your lawn here without you planting them and also, I would like more lawn/yard. I do believe if you saw the property, you'd understand. I'll try to dig up the right picture.

[LittleLebowski]

Awesome post!


I'm a newbee here but this thread caught my attention. I own a tree service and we use Sthil saws exclusively. Lot's of good advice on saws already posted. My advice is keep the bar length appropriate to the power head, big bars on small displacement heads don't work well. Here is a video of a recent big Oak takedown and haul out:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT3xjAQ4uvA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr7eWjI-cOk

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks for the pictures. Like everything figuring out your system will take a little bit.

I've run chains without "kickback safety" designs for a few years now and in terms of kickback it is hard for me to tell a difference. I think this was more of an issues years ago. If you pay attention to where the nose of the bar is, no issues. If folks have other experience I'd love to hear it.

No hate here and the picture is not the best but I would think about leaving more holding wood on the stump the chainsaw is sitting on. Once the tree is falling, stop cutting and get out. Holding wood is your best friend, respect the holding wood. Not knocking the arborists but watching videos of them, especially guys in the trees rock through it all. On the ground, no need.

Clearing work is really satisfying, thanks for keeping the thread going.

[Welder]

So, you'd get a 12" or so to compliment a 20" saw?

Depends on whether your ultimate goal is 2 or 3 saws... If only 2 saws, then I'd go with a 14" bar on a saw with good power. You'll find you'll use it as your primary about 75 percent of the time in the size of trees I see in your pics.

If you're going for 3 saws, I'd find a light 12" saw which would still do a big chunk of the work I see there, then something around 16" which is still light enough to easily deal with, then a medium-large saw that is commonly sold with at least a 20" bar. Something of that size can handle a bar that's quite a bit longer in a pinch, using skip-tooth chain and a gentle hand. I used a customer's MS440 with a 36" bar in hardwood some years back. It wasn't ideal (we kept a 20" bar on our own MS460 at the time), but it got the job done and frankly better than I expected. For once-in-a-blue-moon situations, it's amazing what you can make work with some patience.

The downfall of an underpowered saw is if you need to adjust the angle of the hinge during the fall...and don't have enough power to do so in the time you have. Frankly, that's not something a novice should be doing anyway. I assume you know that once the fall starts, you need to already know your escape route and be heading that way. Get away from the tree at a 45 degree angle as the area behind the hinge is a danger zone once the hinge breaks - the log can bounce and come straight back at you.

When you make your felling cut, there's no reason to go fancy on it. Make your notch about 25 percent of the tree's thickness deep, keep the bottom flat and make the top angle enough that it won't bind and snap the hinge early. The hinge is your control - you want it parallel and just thin enough that the tree will fall but thick enough that it won't come apart until the tree is well on it's way to the ground. On a big tree with a good lean it might start going with the hinge still being 3" or more thick; on a small one you might have a 1/2" hinge.

Your back-cut is a matter of some debate; I won't get into trigger cuts here but I've used them to advantage. Traditionally, just make a level cut from the back of the tree forward, even with or just above the bottom of your notch. If you cut under the notch, you're likely to lose the hinge. When you lose the hinge, you lose directional control and that's bad. So keep your back-cut at least even with the bottom of the notch. If your saw is too small to make it completely through the tree's diameter, no problem. Look up and figure out which side of the tree is more dangerous to be under once it starts going (dictated by lean / deadwood / escape routes) and make that side of the back-cut first while there's a good chance the tree will remain in place. Then go to the final side, start your bar in the already-begun back cut to match them up, and finish the cut on the 'safe' side. If your bar goes all the way through the tree, then always choose the safe side to make the back-cut from.

I know of a local guy who just a couple of months ago was sawing up a tree he'd cut down and took a head whack from a limb under pressure that he cut in an incorrect way; a life-changing event for him. Last I heard they were hoping he'd get some of his brain function back. Not to be a downer, just a reminder to never turn your brain off around this stuff.

[1slow]

Depends on whether your ultimate goal is 2 or 3 saws... If only 2 saws, then I'd go with a 14" bar on a saw with good power. You'll find you'll use it as your primary about 75 percent of the time in the size of trees I see in your pics.

If you're going for 3 saws, I'd find a light 12" saw which would still do a big chunk of the work I see there, then something around 16" which is still light enough to easily deal with, then a medium-large saw that is commonly sold with at least a 20" bar. Something of that size can handle a bar that's quite a bit longer in a pinch, using skip-tooth chain and a gentle hand. I used a customer's MS440 with a 36" bar in hardwood some years back. It wasn't ideal (we kept a 20" bar on our own MS460 at the time), but it got the job done and frankly better than I expected. For once-in-a-blue-moon situations, it's amazing what you can make work with some patience.

The downfall of an underpowered saw is if you need to adjust the angle of the hinge during the fall...and don't have enough power to do so in the time you have. Frankly, that's not something a novice should be doing anyway. I assume you know that once the fall starts, you need to already know your escape route and be heading that way. Get away from the tree at a 45 degree angle as the area behind the hinge is a danger zone once the hinge breaks - the log can bounce and come straight back at you.

When you make your felling cut, there's no reason to go fancy on it. Make your notch about 25 percent of the tree's thickness deep, keep the bottom flat and make the top angle enough that it won't bind and snap the hinge early. The hinge is your control - you want it parallel and just thin enough that the tree will fall but thick enough that it won't come apart until the tree is well on it's way to the ground. On a big tree with a good lean it might start going with the hinge still being 3" or more thick; on a small one you might have a 1/2" hinge.

Your back-cut is a matter of some debate; I won't get into trigger cuts here but I've used them to advantage. Traditionally, just make a level cut from the back of the tree forward, even with or just above the bottom of your notch. If you cut under the notch, you're likely to lose the hinge. When you lose the hinge, you lose directional control and that's bad. So keep your back-cut at least even with the bottom of the notch. If your saw is too small to make it completely through the tree's diameter, no problem. Look up and figure out which side of the tree is more dangerous to be under once it starts going (dictated by lean / deadwood / escape routes) and make that side of the back-cut first while there's a good chance the tree will remain in place. Then go to the final side, start your bar in the already-begun back cut to match them up, and finish the cut on the 'safe' side. If your bar goes all the way through the tree, then always choose the safe side to make the back-cut from.

I know of a local guy who just a couple of months ago was sawing up a tree he'd cut down and took a head whack from a limb under pressure that he cut in an incorrect way; a life-changing event for him. Last I heard they were hoping he'd get some of his brain function back. Not to be a downer, just a reminder to never turn your brain off around this stuff.

Very good advice.
Always be wary of wood under tension either standing or after cut down. Which way will it spring/roll when tension is released. Even a little piece can ruin you.
Also what will it hit in falling ? How might it bounce ?

[rob_s]

It's a five acre property in woods-heavy Virginia that was on the market and unoccupied/neglected for two years. Trees grow in your lawn here without you planting them and also, I would like more lawn/yard. I do believe if you saw the property, you'd understand. I'll try to dig up the right picture.

Wasn't criticizing, just curious. I know a lot of guys that would go out and start chopping away just to have something to do or because they thought they were supposed to.

I'm the guy with lots of yard that would rather have the forest.

[Digiroc]

... I've run chains without "kickback safety" designs for a few years now and in terms of kickback it is hard for me to tell a difference... If you pay attention to where the nose of the bar is, no issues. If folks have other experience I'd love to hear it...

"Anti-Kickback" chain designs are more about product liability than actually stopping kickback. As you correctly point out, it's awareness of where the tip of the saw is and what it contacts that prevents kickback, that's where kickback occurs.


... I would think about leaving more holding wood on the stump the chainsaw is sitting on. Once the tree is falling, stop cutting and get out. Holding wood is your best friend, respect the holding wood. Not knocking the arborists but watching videos of them, especially guys in the trees rock through it all...

An axiom in felling trees is "It's not what you cut away from a tree that determines how it falls, it's what you leave" The amount of wood you leave between the notch and the back-cut is the "holding wood" it acts as a hinge that directs the fall of the tree. Without that "hinge" the tree can fall in any direction. Also take a good look at the lean and amount of weight the limbs above you are going. If your saw begins to get pinched as you make the backcut the tree is wanting to fall backwards. This is the time to deploy wedges to force the tree to go the direction you want it to.

Plastic wedges are an essential part of any tree fellers kit. They can force a tree to go the direction you need it to, and are also useful to free a stuck saw. Setting a pull line is also great insurance in getting a tree to fall where you need it to. Some trees are leaning so badly that a winch and pull line is essential. Here is a video of a tree with an extreme lean that we had to use extraordinary measures to keep it from crushing a fence:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmM98L_hQm0

Don't try this at home!

[LittleLebowski]

Wasn't criticizing, just curious. I know a lot of guys that would go out and start chopping away just to have something to do or because they thought they were supposed to.

I'm the guy with lots of yard that would rather have the forest.

No worries, I wasn't taking it as criticism. The yard is kind of a mess, I'm enjoying cleaning it up but I'll be glad when it's over. I had to also buy a pro grade Husky leaf blower (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VGY2CXW) when I would rather have spent the money on reloading supplies. There's so much leaf buildup here that the grass has been killed outright in many large pieces of the lawn.

[LittleLebowski]

Furiously pounding the Like button for Digiroc and TBone's posts. Learning a lot.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I don't really have anything useful to add right now but I just got back from my island where I did a ton of heavy pruning on big arbutus trees that were overhanging my cabin. Man, some of that feels pretty dicey. These are the trees:

https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/documents/treebook/arbutus.htm

and they're interesting trees, but a bit of a headache to cut back. The trunks are gnarled and everything tilts in crazy unpredictable ways, and a couple of big ones are leaning over my cabin. Well, I guess technically not now that I've been cutting them back, but I cut them back because large limbs were encroaching pretty far over my place.

The biggest one is probably eighty feet tall, and I'll tell you that getting up there and cutting down branches as thick as a human neck is more than a little unnerving. They crash to earth with tremendous force, leaving the warbly trunk swaying around eerily. Of course you figure the tree just got a few hundred pounds lighter and it held you up before...but still.

It's also very tricky to figure out exactly where the weight is, since every branch is some weird pile of twists and bends. I really should have been using ropes and pullers on the ground but I got carried away and started chopping stuff up by myself, which was kind of dumb, even though nothing went wrong.

Anyway the reason I'm commenting at all is that since I only have a fairly good-sized Stihl (038 AV) I had to do it all with a bow saw. Thankfully I spent many years cutting firewood with a bow saw and I'm fairly handy with one...but man, a 12-14" chainsaw would have been REALLY handy all Easter long. I mean literally, it was like a trailer park easter.

[LittleLebowski]

I don't really have anything useful to add right now but I just got back from my island where I did a ton of heavy pruning on big arbutus trees that were overhanging my cabin. Man, some of that feels pretty dicey. These are the trees:

https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/documents/treebook/arbutus.htm

and they're interesting trees, but a bit of a headache to cut back. The trunks are gnarled and everything tilts in crazy unpredictable ways, and a couple of big ones are leaning over my cabin. Well, I guess technically not now that I've been cutting them back, but I cut them back because large limbs were encroaching pretty far over my place.

The biggest one is probably eighty feet tall, and I'll tell you that getting up there and cutting down branches as thick as a human neck is more than a little unnerving. They crash to earth with tremendous force, leaving the warbly trunk swaying around eerily. Of course you figure the tree just got a few hundred pounds lighter and it held you up before...but still.

It's also very tricky to figure out exactly where the weight is, since every branch is some weird pile of twists and bends. I really should have been using ropes and pullers on the ground but I got carried away and started chopping stuff up by myself, which was kind of dumb, even though nothing went wrong.

Anyway the reason I'm commenting at all is that since I only have a fairly good-sized Stihl (038 AV) I had to do it all with a bow saw. Thankfully I spent many years cutting firewood with a bow saw and I'm fairly handy with one...but man, a 12-14" chainsaw would have been REALLY handy all Easter long. I mean literally, it was like a trailer park easter.

Are you on the market for a smaller saw? I completely understand about getting carried away with a job.

[LittleLebowski]

Going to try converting my 20" saw to a 16" on the advice of the pros of http://arboristsite.com. I ordered this Oregon Pro Lite 16" bar (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001SCIMVS/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B001SCIMVS&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=SXSIYZG2JKXFJHYC) and am looking at non-safety full and semi chisel chains to match it (16" 3/8 .0.50 60DL if you want to help ;)).

Did some work yesterday afternoon and my new Husqvarna chain is kinda hurting (dull) or it might just need retensioned. At any rate, it stopped throwing chips (when a chain starts throwing sawdust instead of chips, you have something wrong) and really wasn't cutting so I put it up for the day. I really need to find a newbie friendly sharpening setup.

[Welder]

If you're doing much flush-cutting, which you appear to be, a semi-chisel is going to last longer between sharpenings. Same if the wood is dirty or dry (harder). Full chisel shines when wood is clean and green, but as soon as the tip gets knocked off of the cutter, it slows right down as you've probably noticed. And if you don't sharpen the cutter until the tip is sharp again, you've wasted your time sharpening. Sometimes you remove quite a bit of material depending on what you hit. I should know -- I've cut buried nails *lengthwise* before as well as buried 1/2" all-thread. This was with Stihl chains.

I think the Stihl semi-chisel chain that would fit your needs is # 33 RM3 60. But I would have to look at the safety link area to be sure. I'm not familiar with other chain brands.

I'm also not familiar with your saw, but if it had a fair amount of power with the 20" bar, and if different drive sprockets are available, you might be able to go up a tooth on the drive sprocket tooth count with this shorter bar. That'll increase your chain speed and make the saw cut a little faster.

As far as sharpening goes, I just hand-sharpen with the handy little angle-guide kits that Stihl sells. Just a flat metal plate that snaps onto a round file with the sharpening angles for different types of chain inscribed onto it. BTW, there is a considerable difference in file quality. The Stihl files I use last quite awhile - they are made of some hard stuff. The Oregon files start out OK and then go downhill quick, especially on hard Stihl chain. Files are cheap - don't skimp on a soft one.

PS - I assume you're using a real bar oil and not used motor oil, etc like some people do? Makes a big difference in chain and bar life.

[LittleLebowski]

Absolutely using real bar oil. What chains do you prefer with regards to brand, TBone? I was looking at buying this Stihl (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LON1FOM/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00LON1FOM&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=RK723CHDI6AHEJYV).

[Cookie Monster]

I have a dozen chains on hand for each saw so I hit them a little with a hand file (maybe once), then cut until dull, and the put on a new chain. I only say this to say that I don't sharpen much (I have a 10 second chainsaw sharpening FAST drill).

I have been looking at picking this up though:

http://www.granberg.com/product/g1012xt-precision-grinder

Wranglerstar on Youtube has a few videos on this and highly recommends it, for what that is worth.

[Welder]

Absolutely using real bar oil. What chains do you prefer with regards to brand, TBone? I was looking at buying this Stihl (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LON1FOM/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00LON1FOM&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=RK723CHDI6AHEJYV).

I'm not familiar with that chain...I haven't bought any in awhile since I don't do this for a living anymore, but on close inspection that's a safety chain, also proven by the green label on the box. I was pretty sure RS (Rapid Super) was a full chisel, which is why I was recommending the semi-chisel RM instead since you're flush-cutting stumps also. If your chain EVER touches dirt, even accidentally for a split second, you should really think about running semi-chisel.

I'm sure the one you linked to is a fine chain - you might buy one of those and one of the part numbers I mentioned above, and see which one lasts and cuts better over the long haul for your needs. 16" chain isn't too expensive.

[LittleLebowski]

Actually, I haven't been flush cutting any stumps yet because of consciously limiting myself to avoid any endangerment and also to preserve my chains. Everyone else is recommending semi chisel chains, I just ordered an Oregon one for the the 16" bar I have en route. This is exciting stuff!

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Are you on the market for a smaller saw? I completely understand about getting carried away with a job.

Honestly...probably not; I'll probably make do with bow saws because even though a small chainsaw is really handy, the fact is I just hate to make the noise of running one up there. I bucked up a 40' douglas fir on Saturday with a larger bow saw for the sole reason that it was really quiet in the forest and I didn't feel like interrupting the peaceful setting.

Also, I'm kind of cheap.

[Josh Runkle]

http://youtu.be/EGhygaUCBKg

Start at 2:56

[LittleLebowski]

Downsized to 16" bar and chain. I think that I like it better so far.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/16Poulan_zpstf1hjjsc.jpg

[HCM]

LL - Don't know how to embed from Instagram but here is your next drill of the week " The Montana Reload"

https://www.instagram.com/p/BD9JLBGhx1N/
p/BD9JLBGhx1N

[LittleLebowski]

Really eyeing the Stihl MS241 (http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms241cm/) to compliment my larger 50cc saw. I spent hours today felling and bucking trees, would like something lighter.

[Welder]

Really eyeing the Stihl MS241 (http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms241cm/) to compliment my larger 50cc saw. I spent hours today felling and bucking trees, would like something lighter.

My advice would be to go drastically lighter on your next saw. Something with a 12" bar will do a large percentage of the work I see in your pictures and won't leave you worn-out at the end of the day. You've got a 16" and 20" bar for the Poulan - treat yourself to a featherweight 12" saw and your back will thank you.

I'm not really familiar with Stihl's super-modern saws, but your link showed the MS241 at 43cc, so only a slightly smaller engine than the Poulan you already have. My guess is it probably doesn't quite have the guts to run a 16" bar strongly in hardwood (the MS261 is the classic 16" pro saw), but is probably overpowered for what you'd need for a 14" bar. The bare powerhead weighs 10 lbs according to the Stihl site, which is probably not much lighter than your Poulan if I had to guess. The modern Poulans I've handled were so plastic-y that they were lighter than they looked.

I wonder if any of the backwoods Stihl shops in your area still have something like an MS192T-CE or MS192C-E (top and rear handles, respectively) gathering dust on the shelf. Check out the powerhead weights on those - down in the 6-7 lb area. That's what you want for a light saw. Put a 12" bar on them and go to town. I have extensive experience with the 192's and they were great, reliable, inexpensive saws. I may have mentioned earlier that I have a brand new MS192C-E sitting on the shelf I'm saving for whenever I need it. I'm not familiar with the MS193 series that recently replaced them, but a quick Google search shows mixed reviews.

Another option in the Stihl line that I don't have any familiarity with but seems to have pretty good reviews is the MS150C-E. Super-light rear-handle powerhead that's rated for a 12" bar. Less power than a 192/193 but lighter, too. Here's a link to a thread on arboristsite about it: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/the-stihl-ms-150t-c-e.250256/

I would give serious consideration to that saw.

[LittleLebowski]

I was absolutely thinking of something with a 12"-14" bar, Tbone and am glad you chimed in! It's not like I don't have an excuse (http://pistol-training.com/articles/how-i-got-shot) to get a lighter saw, anyway :D

[Cookie Monster]

I was absolutely thinking of something with a 12"-14" bar, Tbone and am glad you chimed in! It's not like I don't have an excuse (http://pistol-training.com/articles/how-i-got-shot) to get a lighter saw, anyway :D

Keep running the saw, it'll get lighter.

[Welder]

I was absolutely thinking of something with a 12"-14" bar, Tbone and am glad you chimed in! It's not like I don't have an excuse (http://pistol-training.com/articles/how-i-got-shot) to get a lighter saw, anyway :D

Yeah, I guess you do! But you don't really need an excuse to run a light saw on light work. Efficiency is the name of the game for a working man -- you get more done, and the work is of higher quality and done more safely, when you're using the right tools for the job. In a lifetime of operating everything from chainsaws to rock crushers, I have found this to be true without exception.

[LittleLebowski]

Keep running the saw, it'll get lighter.

Grow stronger, got it :D

[LittleLebowski]

My advice would be to go drastically lighter on your next saw. Something with a 12" bar will do a large percentage of the work I see in your pictures and won't leave you worn-out at the end of the day. You've got a 16" and 20" bar for the Poulan - treat yourself to a featherweight 12" saw and your back will thank you.

I'm not really familiar with Stihl's super-modern saws, but your link showed the MS241 at 43cc, so only a slightly smaller engine than the Poulan you already have. My guess is it probably doesn't quite have the guts to run a 16" bar strongly in hardwood (the MS261 is the classic 16" pro saw), but is probably overpowered for what you'd need for a 14" bar. The bare powerhead weighs 10 lbs according to the Stihl site, which is probably not much lighter than your Poulan if I had to guess. The modern Poulans I've handled were so plastic-y that they were lighter than they looked.

I wonder if any of the backwoods Stihl shops in your area still have something like an MS192T-CE or MS192C-E (top and rear handles, respectively) gathering dust on the shelf. Check out the powerhead weights on those - down in the 6-7 lb area. That's what you want for a light saw. Put a 12" bar on them and go to town. I have extensive experience with the 192's and they were great, reliable, inexpensive saws. I may have mentioned earlier that I have a brand new MS192C-E sitting on the shelf I'm saving for whenever I need it. I'm not familiar with the MS193 series that recently replaced them, but a quick Google search shows mixed reviews.

Another option in the Stihl line that I don't have any familiarity with but seems to have pretty good reviews is the MS150C-E. Super-light rear-handle powerhead that's rated for a 12" bar. Less power than a 192/193 but lighter, too. Here's a link to a thread on arboristsite about it: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/the-stihl-ms-150t-c-e.250256/

I would give serious consideration to that saw.

How bad is the top handle w/out antivibe?

[Welder]

How bad is the top handle w/out antivibe?

Stihl doesn't make a top handle without AV - hasn't for decades. Depending on the saw, the top-handle AV system is either a series of rubber bushings or coil springs attaching the carb / filter / side and rear handle assembly to the saw. On all but the smallest rear handle saws, the fuel tank assembly is also part of the AV side of the saw with a rib running underneath to allow the side handle to be AV as well.

[Welder]

Grow stronger, got it :D

He might just mean the more you run it, the less fuel and bar oil are in it. ;)

[LittleLebowski]

Stihl doesn't make a top handle without AV - hasn't for decades. Depending on the saw, the top-handle AV system is either a series of rubber bushings or coil springs attaching the carb / filter / side and rear handle assembly to the saw. On all but the smallest rear handle saws, the fuel tank assembly is also part of the AV side of the saw with a rib running underneath to allow the side handle to be AV as well.

Learning just occurred, again. I'm searching, not finding anything yet. I'll hit a local dealer today and browse. It helps to pick up and handle the saws.

I went through my first carb tuning experience last week and learning occurred as I worked through solving the problem of my 5520AV not idling. Problem solved but it took a bit of work on my part to grasp how to tune the carb.

[LittleLebowski]

He might just mean the more you run it, the less fuel and bar oil are in it. ;)

Copy, I'm a jarhead and not that bright :D

[LittleLebowski]

Pretty tired of dicking around with this 5020. Might sell some shit to get me into a better saw.

[LittleLebowski]

Pretty tired of dicking around with this 5020. Might sell some shit to get me into a better saw.

Adding poll.

[LittleLebowski]

I got a lot out of this video. He explained the felling dogs usage in a new way for me.


http://youtu.be/kl_jogiuO94

[butler coach]

This is a real good training video for felling a tree



http://youtu.be/Teb2bQsqx44


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

So, I bought the Dolmar 421 from Performance Outdoor Equipment (http://performanceoutdoorequipment.com/products/dolmar-ps-421) for $320 shipped. I returned my Poulan 5020AV (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052EL9YU/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0052EL9YU&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=LZJQHQWX3CNLXHZD) since I've had a lot of problems with it that culminated in a fuel line melting and falling out of the saw (picture attached). I spent a lot of time thinking this problem was the carburetor and it was not. I believe that the Poulan 5020AV is a good saw but lacking in local dealer support (care to take a guess on how I know this?).

I chose the Dolmar because the Husqvarna 450 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DO1OMK/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B001DO1OMK&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=AZVZSUR7FTX3CLJK) was in my price range but it's not a pro-grade saw and the Dolmar is indeed pro-grade. The Dolmar is a 42cc saw but high revving (13,500RPM) and the consensus amongst the pro abroists and chainsaw geeks (seriously) is that it's a rock solid saw that punches way above its weight. Furthermore, the dealer I bought from tests out the saw and tunes it for your altitude before shipping. If I have a problem, I can send it back to them for $15 in shipping in order to take advantage of the two year warranty. I dearly wanted to get into a pro grade Stihl 261 or a Husqvarna 543 (http://sleequipment.com/husqvarna-543-xp-16-inch-chainsaw.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw0pa5BRCLmoKIx_HTh1wSJA Bk5F_42rRNvjjQUgAnPou-oLCgdLLygKTk8f8XSE_N1Eb8_xoCgKfw_wcB) but the prices were too high.

The Dolmar 421 is also rebranded as the Makita EA4300 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G38HFMO/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00G38HFMO&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=DBYEWEFMY7EUXN7Z) and sold on Amazon, at Home Depot, etc.


7590

[LittleLebowski]

Note the side chain tensioner.

http://cdn.equipatron.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1000x1000/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/o/dolmar35_4.jpg

[butler coach]

So, I bought the Dolmar 421 from Performance Outdoor Equipment (http://performanceoutdoorequipment.com/products/dolmar-ps-421) for $320 shipped. I returned my Poulan 5020AV (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052EL9YU/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0052EL9YU&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=LZJQHQWX3CNLXHZD) since I've had a lot of problems with it that culminated in a fuel line melting and falling out of the saw (picture attached). I spent a lot of time thinking this problem was the carburetor and it was not. I believe that the Poulan 5020AV is a good saw but lacking in local dealer support (care to take a guess on how I know this?).

I chose the Dolmar because the Husqvarna 450 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DO1OMK/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B001DO1OMK&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=AZVZSUR7FTX3CLJK) was in my price range but it's not a pro-grade saw and the Dolmar is indeed pro-grade. The Dolmar is a 42cc saw but high revving (13,500RPM) and the consensus amongst the pro abroists and chainsaw geeks (seriously) is that it's a rock solid saw that punches way above its weight. Furthermore, the dealer I bought from tests out the saw and tunes it for your altitude before shipping. If I have a problem, I can send it back to them for $15 in shipping in order to take advantage of the two year warranty. I dearly wanted to get into a pro grade Stihl 261 or a Husqvarna 543 (http://sleequipment.com/husqvarna-543-xp-16-inch-chainsaw.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw0pa5BRCLmoKIx_HTh1wSJA Bk5F_42rRNvjjQUgAnPou-oLCgdLLygKTk8f8XSE_N1Eb8_xoCgKfw_wcB) but the prices were too high.

The Dolmar 421 is also rebranded as the Makita EA4300 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G38HFMO/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00G38HFMO&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=DBYEWEFMY7EUXN7Z) and sold on Amazon, at Home Depot, etc.


7590

Can't wait to hear an update on this saw. Will pull the trigger on a dolman when my old husky dies.
Cut safe

[Drang]

I must still be jet lagged, or maybe hungover, after returning from Cancun, but I read this thread title just now as "I want a Lightsaw" and thought it was a new Star Wars thread...

/digression

[LittleLebowski]

I must still be jet lagged, or maybe hungover, after returning from Cancun, but I read this thread title just now as "I want a Lightsaw" and thought it was a new Star Wars thread...

/digression

LL is not a Star Wars guy (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AQS0F/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0000AQS0F&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=EXWXD4NGN3PJOPOM) :D

[LittleLebowski]

I enjoyed this site's descriptions of historical logging tools:

http://www.vannattabros.com/saw20.html

[Malamute]

I enjoyed this site's descriptions of historical logging tools:

http://www.vannattabros.com/saw20.html


Historical,....

I feel sort of old. I have one of those. Fantastic tool. Also have a Peavey, cant hook, draw knives, log dogs, bark spud, skidding tongs (alluded to in the description as log carrier without the handle, only specifically made for skidding) and various other odds and ends.

[SergioKurba]

I don't have a ton of experience with chainsaws but I have some. I have mechanical aptitude. I understand that I'll need chaps, gloves, and safety glasses.

I have 5 acres and lots of trees. I am on a budget and am happy buying used. Eyeing a local Stihl 41 Farm Boss for $200. Usage will be felling a handful of trees a year and cutting up dead trees in manageable portions.

I use the Husqvarna 450. This is a very powerful and easy to drink, which will help to cut a large number of trees. :eek: Moreover, if you choose between Husky's and Stihl, Husqvarna 450 is more economical. And its price there (http://jonsguide.org/best-chainsaws-review/#husqvarna-450-18-inch-502cc-x-torq-2-cycle-gas-powered-chain-saw) is $ 369.95, I believe that it is not very expensive for such a device. ;) So my choice in favor of Husky.

[LittleLebowski]

I use the Husqvarna 450. This is a very powerful and easy to drink, which will help to cut a large number of trees. :eek: Moreover, if you choose between Husky's and Stihl, Husqvarna 450 is more economical. And its price there (http://jonsguide.org/best-chainsaws-review/#husqvarna-450-18-inch-502cc-x-torq-2-cycle-gas-powered-chain-saw) is $ 369.95, I believe that it is not very expensive for such a device. ;) So my choice in favor of Husky.

I appreciate the knowledge but I chose the Dolmar 421, hopefully it will get here tomorrow.

[SergioKurba]

I appreciate the knowledge but I chose the Dolmar 421, hopefully it will get here tomorrow.

Congratulations:o

[11B10]

I appreciate the knowledge but I chose the Dolmar 421, hopefully it will get here tomorrow.



LL - I have been following this thread very closely as I am in the same situation as you - not a lot of stuff to cut, want a quality tool - and I too, am on a budget. I'll be very anxious to hear how the Dolmar (a brand I have NO exerience with) works out for you.

[11B10]

I was absolutely thinking of something with a 12"-14" bar, Tbone and am glad you chimed in! It's not like I don't have an excuse (http://pistol-training.com/articles/how-i-got-shot) to get a lighter saw, anyway :D


Every time I see those pictures and read about your elbow, I slow down in everything I do with firearms - it really makes me think about each move I make with my guns. Two questions: How IS your elbow now? When did it happen?

[LittleLebowski]

Guys, I got it in yesterday. I was so worried that the USPS would screw up the delivery and leave without my new saw for the weekend that I went to the post office before the carrier took delivery and got the saw myself :D

I ain't gonna say what goodies were in the box but between those, the lightning fast shipping, the price no one else,could beat, and the perfectly tuned saw; I cannot recommend doing business with my guy at PerformanceOutdoorEquipment (http://performanceoutdoorequipment.com/products/dolmar-ps-421) enough. If he has what you are looking for, it's worth it to go to him for your equipment needs.

So after getting confused with the overly verbose manual, I got the chain on there and tensioned just right. Added the proper mix and some oil and even though I was technically helping get the house ready for guests, I just had to get it on.

Oh man, after all of that dinking around with the Poulan 5020AV, this was like upgrading to a Mercedes or BMW. Ridiculously easy start, cuts way way better than the Poulan, and it just functioned right. No dying in the cut, idled just right, and it just ripped right through the several already downed trees I needed to buck. After that, I cut down a very large stump and found out later that there was a nail buried deep in the wood (not in the bark, way deep in there!) that the saw cut through.

I am truly satisfied with the Dolmar 421 and wish I'd bought it sooner. The saw just exudes high build quality and performs at a level I've never experienced before.7744

[Drang]

I know you're excited, but I suspect you probably meant to say

I cannot recommend doing business with my guy at PerformanceOutdoorEquipment (http://performanceoutdoorequipment.com/products/dolmar-ps-421) enough.

:cool:

[LittleLebowski]

Yeah, fixed that. Ran that saw hard today, my little German girl kept on devouring trees. Very, very pleased with it. I hit the chain with a file before starting today,mfive swipes on each tooth.

[LittleLebowski]

Every time I see those pictures and read about your elbow, I slow down in everything I do with firearms - it really makes me think about each move I make with my guns. Two questions: How IS your elbow now? When did it happen?

Sending you a PM.

[LittleLebowski]

LL - I have been following this thread very closely as I am in the same situation as you - not a lot of stuff to cut, want a quality tool - and I too, am on a budget. I'll be very anxious to hear how the Dolmar (a brand I have NO exerience with) works out for you.

So far, five tanks of fuel into this saw and I can't recommend it enough. I'll keep updating this thread in order to provide data for you. If it helps, the deal I got from Performance Outdoor Equipment ($320 shipped) is unmatched by anyone else. This dealer is not local to me and I do have local Dolmar support available but if I had a problem with the saw, I'd probably just spend the $15 to ship it back to this dealer. Also, I really like how they unbox and check the carb's tune and adjust for your altitude before shipping.

[NEPAKevin]

Saw this bench mounted chain sharpener (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blue-Max-4-200-RPM-Bench-Mount-Electric-Chainsaw-Sharpener-5655/202585719)on Home Depot's Deals of the Day and am thinking of getting one as it almost has to be better than my current vice/hand file set up. Reviews on their site are mostly positive.

[LittleLebowski]

Five tanks between yesterday and today. I really like how easy it is to turn up the oiler when flush cutting stumps. I think that makes it around twelve tanks of fuel since I got this Dolmar 421.

My little German girl continues to run like clockwork. Never more than two pulls to start after you do the first two at full choke. Warm, she starts on one pull without being choked.

[LittleLebowski]

This was a brand new bar this morning.

[LittleLebowski]

This is seriously cool. Dolmar chainsaws are made by one technician from start to finish at their factory in Germany. The video is in German.


https://youtu.be/2Yx_K3kNQfA

[LittleLebowski]

I think that I'm at 17 tanks of fuel so far. No problems.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm tired... There's another stack of wood of equivalent size that you cannot see in the picture. I felled, bucked, and split all of this myself using only the tools you see in the picture (the Glock 19 is there for !Gadget! porn). The family did help a little with stacking but not much. I still have a lot more work ahead of me. The Dolmar 421 never quits, never bobbles, delivers superb and repeatable results. The little Fiskars X25 splitting axe (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q3AK5ZG/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00Q3AK5ZG&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=K5KAK2MDZPJKLGNS) punches way above its weight and is outstanding.


8048

[LittleLebowski]

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13244758_564373597074201_1505731669115218373_n.jpg ?oh=be277a65b32abd213c4b2a1c3fa996e6&oe=57E2010F

[LittleLebowski]

I really like the Fiskars X25 for most of my splitting work but it needs an extra pound or two of weight in order to split all of what I've cut. Getting its big brother, the X27 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M3BAQE/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B004M3BAQE&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=DV44MJ6AIQYM7AU5), would help me greatly.

[Luke]

You should start a training journal devoted to cutting down trees.

[LittleLebowski]

How often are you fellow sawyers sharpening your rakers? I just bought this (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001SCQ6PC/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B001SCQ6PC&linkId=9b83010fd92fbb4cfe65b71e65d477dc) and I'm told that I should check the rakers every 3rd or 4th sharpening.

[LittleLebowski]

Me using the little Fiskars X25 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001SCQ6PC/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B001SCQ6PC&linkId=9b83010fd92fbb4cfe65b71e65d477dc). I'm very impressed with it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDi0DoFxDIQ

[Luke]

Strong PPE




:)

[LittleLebowski]

Strong PPE
:)

When I'm running the saw, I wear chainsaw-chaps, boots, gloves, foam earplugs, and this helmet (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030MIHBY/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B0030MIHBY&linkId=e434a827f54fedb45d9bcc3b43944544). I'm sure I could be safer when swinging that Fiskars but I'll take that chance and I'll take the criticism when it's 90 degrees with high humidity.

[SJC3081]

LL,I spilt and cut 15 chords a year. That kindling in your video can be split with a total POS maul from Home Depot. To test your Fiskar try some 16" plus hardwoods.

[LittleLebowski]

LL,I spilt and cut 15 chords a year. That kindling in your video can be split with a total POS maul from Home Depot. To test your Fiskar try some 16" plus hardwoods.

Well, you win (unless we are evenly matched up and you modify your elbow to look like this (http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/gunshot1.jpg) :D). If you want to really win, ship me some of those manhood testing 16" plus hardwoods and I'll attempt to split them on video (PM for shipping address). Anyway, I do have a cheap maul from Home Depot (I don't find it to be a POS) and what I like about this Fiskars and was attempting to show is how that this Fiskars punches way, way above its weight and it's not really that expensive.

[LittleLebowski]

Maybe we can start a thread about whose knees are the most fucked up or who had the worst childhood next. :)

I can name at least two guys on here with way more fucked up bodies than mine, I only win the "worst strong side elbow contest" :D

[LittleLebowski]

I did some Googling on actual cord size. I really need to do this stacking method as I'm told it will help with drying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLICD83B_qg

[SJC3081]

Sorry I forgot about your elbow, I wasn't personally atacking you just saying your maul should be capable of much more.

[LittleLebowski]

Sorry I forgot about your elbow, I wasn't personally atacking you just saying your maul should be capable of much more.

No worries. The point I was trying to make is that for its weight and size, the Fiskars punches way above is weight. It is extremely light but splits like a bigger maul.

[SJC3081]

LL
It's time for you to start a thread, What wood burning stove should I get? Why let all those BTUs's go waste.

[LittleLebowski]

LL
It's time for you to start a thread, What wood burning stove should I get? Why let all those BTUs's go waste.

I've got two already :cool: How are you stacking your firewood? Nice Stihl! Let's see your maul.

[LittleLebowski]

Gents, one thing I've learned in this little journey aside from buying quality if you're going to use a chainsaw more than twice a year is always, always have wedges with you always when felling and bucking.

Hadn't started the Dolmar for a couple weeks and left it setting with ethanol gas. Second pull start :cool:

[Welder]

Gents, one thing I've learned in this little journey aside from buying quality if you're going to use a chainsaw more than twice a year is always, always have wedges with you always when felling and bucking.

Hadn't started the Dolmar for a couple weeks and left it setting with ethanol gas. Second pull start :cool:

Glad to hear things are still going well for you. I haven't weighed in recently because no experience with Dolmar.

When I used to do tree work, we nearly always had more than one person so we got a pull rope up in the tree rather than using wedges - only used them on severe leans or if a saw got stuck when bucking. On my own property I still put a pull rope in the tree and tie it off to my tractor or another tree before starting a felling cut (if there's anything around that can be hurt).

I don't actively buck with wedges, but rather use a combination of plunge cuts / undercuts (if terrain allows) to shorten the log to where it's more movable, then use a cant hook to roll the log. Or my loader if it's huge. If you misjudge the pressure and the saw gets stuck, and you can't get it free with your wedges, that's what your second saw is for. Or your second bar and chain - don't forget you can unbolt the powerhead, put a second bar and chain on to free up the first.

At the present I have two giant black oaks that need to be dealt with - threw one across the stream nearly a year ago because it had a lean towards my shop and the other is just a standing dead tree over my shooting range. There's enough firewood in those two trees to heat my shop for years.

[LittleLebowski]

I would totally come help you cut if you were nearby. To learn and because running a saw is fun.

I've considered using a throw rope with perhaps a come along for some trees. I don't have much over say 2' in width. I also don't have a second saw, I'd really like to get a Dolmar 6400 (http://www.mowersatjacks.com/Product-Details/DOLMAR/PS640020?gclid=CjwKEAjwka67BRCk6a7_h_7Pui8SJABcMkW RzQhpDYY1g6wbxH39CyDwHAYFciU8fUwnQrpkPT2gQRoCXE7w_ wcB) for bigger trees and as a backup but it's not in the budget. I had a rough time yesterday with an oddly shaped tree that had a problematic lean but a couple of wedges fixed the problem. I also don't have a tractor so often times use wedges (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BHGCVHK/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B01BHGCVHK&linkId=e742107485e50a98e801d9424a11df1d) when bucking in order to get the log short enough to move then do a series of bucking cuts, roll it over and finish.

I've just found that wedges (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BHGCVHK/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B01BHGCVHK&linkId=e742107485e50a98e801d9424a11df1d) work extremely well for me on my budget. I can't say enough good things about them but I certainly wish I had a real tractor and a second saw :D My chaps were soaked in sweat yesterday, but I got that tree down safely in the spot I wanted it :cool:

[Welder]

I would totally come help you cut if you were nearby. To learn and because running a saw is fun.......My chaps were soaked in sweat yesterday, but I got that tree down safely in the spot I wanted it :cool:

I'm about 15 minutes west of Harrisonburg (near Reddish Knob / Hone Quarry) but not sure where you're at. Maybe you could teach me to hit something with my pistol at the same time. :D

I was sweating yesterday too, covered up in leather welding new nose rollers on some of the County's dumpsters. But it was a nice day compared to earlier in the week.

If you have it anchored to something solid and you get the right cut at your hinge and there's no wind (lot of "if's" in that), the pull rope will keep a nearly-perfectly balanced tree standing for long enough for you to get over to your tied-off anchor and pull the tree over yourself using the rope. I consider the rope to be safer than wedges because of how much more leverage you have on the tree. Of course if the tree starts going before you can use the rope, and the hinge breaks, it will then go anywhere within the rope's radius that it wants, getting more free to do stupid things as it gets closer to the ground. But then again wedges are the same way except that there's no limiting radius whatsoever once the wedge loses contact with the falling log.

[LittleLebowski]

I let this saw sit for a coupla months (hot weather) with some nice ethanol gas in there. Fired up on the second pull yesterday, I must have cut down at least fifteen saplings and three good sized (for my area) trees plus a coupla deadfalls in bad places. This saw along with my circa 2007 G19 and my 5.45 AR (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2013/01/my-definitive-545x39mm-ar15-article.html) are the investments that just never let me down, always work, and perform at a high level with little to no maintenance.

[1slow]

Storm took down a 25'' and a 20'' oak. Spent 7 hours yesterday cutting wood. It all fell in a tangled mess or I could have done it in 3 hours.

At some point the chain brake on my 044 Stihl quit working so I put it up and broke out the 660 and put a 25'' bar on it. Very fast cutting with that bar. Did light limbs with MS200 14'' bar. I also used my 30+ year old 038AV Super to make sure it was running OK. 038 was the only saw I had for years.

I have a gas dock with 93 octane non ethanol gas and use Amsoil @ 50 to 1. I have run this for years with little smoke and good results.

[Shellback]

I'm starting to look at chainsaws to knock down quite a few trees on our land. My BIL swears by the Jonsered 2166, but he also CCW's a .22, and is not the best source for information.

What's the consensus on Jonsered? Solid brand or go with a Dolmar, Husky or Stilhl?

[LittleLebowski]

I'm starting to look at chainsaws to knock down quite a few trees on our land. My BIL swears by the Jonsered 2166, but he also CCW's a .22, and is not the best source for information.

What's the consensus on Jonsered? Solid brand or go with a Dolmar, Husky or Stilhl?

A Stihl isn't always a Stihl, the same for Husky. Jonesereds are rebadged Huskys, Husky bought them out a while ago. With regards to my first statement, that is referring to the different lines they have. They have a consumer line like the Stihl homeowner line (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/homeowner-saws/) or the Husqvarna "All Round Saw" and "Powerful Robust Saws (mid range saws) (http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/#ProductCategoryListingHeader) and then there's the actual professional grade lines. Nearly all of the Dolmars from the 42CC engine size up (what I have, the Dolmar 421) are pro grade. Important note: Makita has owned Dolmar and sold their stuff rebadged (still German engineered and German made for the PS421 and up) for a long time. This year, the Dolmar brand ceased to be sold in the US and now it's all Makitas that are rebadged Dolmars. Clear as beer?

If you're buying a saw to cut down the odd downed tree one-a few times a year (you don't sound like you are), the homeowner to mid line saws are fine. If you buy a lower end saw, how local the dealer is and how the dealer's support is very important. Still important but less so for pro grade saws.

A lot depends on the average tree size you have and your budget. There's two schools of thought on engine size for most guys that actually use their saws but not for huge trees:


50CC saw is a really good choice if you can only afford one good saw. Big enough to handle big trees, pretty much small enough to handle for smaller tasks but not perfect for either. Probably a 20" bar would be best for this.
The 40CC and 60CC pairing. The 40CC size is very easy to handle, would probably be used with a 16" bar and then you put a 20-24" bar on the 60CC for big stuff.


My average tree size is around 18" or less, usually 12". My 42CC Dolmar does everything I need to do and has never let me down. I paid $320 shipped from here (http://performanceoutdoorequipment.com/collections/dolmar/products/dolmar-ps-421) and that is an excellent dealer to purchase from, they will support you no questions asked. Just ship them the saw if you need to.

You're a big dude. You could probably handle a 60CC saw for everyday use if your trees are larger. However, big dude or not; a bigger saw will fatigue you no matter what. I recommend not trying to go too big on the saw.

If you're on a budget, check out the Home Depot used rental equipment page (http://www6.homedepot.com/used-tools/index.html) for the Makita EA4300s (Dolmar 421) and the Makita DCS64212 (Dolmar PS-6400 64CC). I'd probably grab the EA4300s for starting out.

If you're not a budget, I'd choose between the Stihl MS241 (41CC) (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms241cm/) or the Stihl M362 C M (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms362cm/). Both are the "C M" models which means you don't have to adjust the carb via a tool if it needs tuning, they have very simple carb management mechanisms that are automatic. Husqvarna equivalents are the 550XP (http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/550-xp/966648218/) and the 562 XP G (59.2CC) (http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/562-xp-g/966570102/).

I lean towards Stihl over Husky but it all depends on your local dealer. I lean towards Dolmar/Makita for a budget. I lean towards a 40CC saw to start out with. I would get a 40CC Dolmar/Makita over a 50-60CC homeowner-mid grade saw. I had a 50CC Poulan with its "warranty" and both it and the warranty sucked ass.

You have to watch the instructional videos in this thread. I'll dig them up again. You have to buy a few wedges, get something like these (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UEN2682/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B00UEN2682&linkId=f4b26bca2d6c6402a6355e29d1c62fe8) and a small sledge, wedges are invaluable for the guy working by himself plus using them encourages patience and proper felling. You need chainsaw chaps (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AKE2GOE/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B00AKE2GOE&linkId=f99472cfc8c3a26ac45e59a2d2c52bfb), the material is designed to snarl the chain's cutters and stop it nearly immediately should an accident occur. We'll figure out which file and file guide you need based upon what saw(s) you get. Just buy Stihl chains for what you get, vastly superior to the Oregon stuff.

[Shellback]

Great info LL. Thanks!

[LittleLebowski]

Great info LL. Thanks!

You contact me personally if you need info right away.

[LittleLebowski]

Dolmars are so easy to start. Not my video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkPCmFhGAMc

[172driver]

Second on the 362. Kinda the equivalent of the Glock 19 as far as a do it all saw. I've ran a 361 for about 10 years now and can't find one complaint about it.

[LittleLebowski]

Picked up a Makita 64cc that is a Dolmar rebranded as a Makita (note the "Made in Germany" bit on the specs). Power...I haz. I blame SLG for this. It's a former Home Depot rental that I got for cheaper than my Dolmar 421.

[Malamute]

Anyone have knowledge of electric chain saws? I know, I always thought of them as sissy saws, but,....with my shoulder and back seriously messed up, I cant begin to start a real saw. I had a cheapo electric saw loaned to me and had a neighbor help me cut up some mill slabs with it for firewood. Its really easy to start, just push the safety button in and pull the trigger. It cut better than I expected, its now got me thinking of a decent electric saw just for cutting up slabs in the yard type stuff. So, anyone have any info about them? The Stihl electrics I looked at a year or so ago were pretty serious money, like more than a gas saw, but they are probably very good saws. Is there a median point of cost and usefulness?

[Welder]

Still waiting for the day when you get an itch for one of the old monster Homelite gear drives. That's what you need, a 990G or whatever the biggest one was. Or maybe a Stihl 090G.

All joking aside, those big saws are fun to look at and brag about, but they stink to run. I've had a couple 088 / MS880's and another couple 084's with bars up to 60", and using those things is work.

The Husky 371 mentioned above is a great saw; a friend of mine had one and it was a screamer.

I currently have a Stihl MS361, everyone raves about it, and I suppose it's OK as an all-arounder but back when I was in the business we used to run MS460's with 20" bars. Switching to the 361 with a 20" for my personal saw was kind of a let-down; the power just isn't there sometimes when you'd like to have it *right now* to do some redirecting when the tree is starting on it's way to the ground. The 361 with an 18" or better yet a 16" bar, now that would be a powerhouse. But a waste for the average homeowner.

About 5 years ago I started building an 064 from parts saws I'd picked up - the 064 had really similar power to the 066 / MS660 but weighed considerably less due mainly to a lighter crankcase and thinner flywheel / starter cover. Stihl had some long-term reliability problems with them because they were on the jagged edge of being too small, so production ceased before they went to the MS series. But for homeowner use it would be the beez kneez. I can't remember how far I got on that saw and need to pull the box of stuff back out and look at it again. I was gathering pre-emissions stuff for it, and one of the really cool things I found was a straight-piped Stihl factory muffler. I've only seen one other like it (on an arboristsite thread), but it's literally a round pipe coming out of the side of the muffler, totally unrestricted. That saw will truly scream if and when I get the urge to finish it.

Anyhow, enough reminiscing. But you will find / may have already found that chainsaws can be every bit as addictive and collectible as firearms. About the same price range, too, depending on what you buy. They're another man toy that can look equally good on display as in use.

[Welder]

Anyone have knowledge of electric chain saws?

The only thing I can say on them is that a close friend of mine who's in the business has bought a battery-powered Husky climbing saw, I've test run it, and it's got plenty of guts. He says he can prune with it all day up in the tree on one battery charge. It's really pretty amazing. Big advantage is no more yanking pull cords / fooling with chokes / screaming saws. It weighs as much and costs as much as a gas-powered pro saw. He said he'll probably replace all his gas-powered climbing saws with these if this one continues to impress.

[Luke]

We have the new electric husqavarna's at work and they are really cool.

[Shellback]

I want to get rid of both of these down at our lake house. I'm guesstimating about 70 feet tall. The cottonwood on the left is about 40" in diameter at it's widest and the one on the right, maybe a maple?, is about 38" in diameter at it's widest.

I would think felling them onto the winter ice would be my best bet, and then cutting them up. Lots of variables to consider like direction, don't want to hit the house, and if the ice is thick enough, plus removal... As an amateur am I better off leaving these to the professionals? Anybody have an idea of what it would cost for removal?

ETA - Not sure why the image got flipped.

http://i63.tinypic.com/24uvnmb.jpg

[Welder]

I want to get rid of both of these down at our lake house. ... As an amateur am I better off leaving these to the professionals? Anybody have an idea of what it would cost for removal?

Your local market and the full surroundings of those trees which we can't see in the picture will dictate cost. How close can they get the chipper, are they removing the wood, what's under and within reach of the trees, etc.

My advice to an amateur I don't know over the internet would be to pay somebody else to do it. My advice might be different if I knew you personally. Plenty of people out there are careful enough and forward-thinking enough to possibly do this work even as beginners as long as they don't have to get into the tree at all. But plenty more would end up killing themselves / onlookers, destroying property, or both.

Sorry for the wishy-washy answer, but that's about as good as I can do. :)

[LittleLebowski]

One thing I heard about electric saws is that they're not as safe w/ regards to automatically stopping in an accident. I heard this, I don't know anything about them myself. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I can answer up.

[LittleLebowski]

Anyone have knowledge of electric chain saws? I know, I always thought of them as sissy saws, but,....with my shoulder and back seriously messed up, I cant begin to start a real saw. I had a cheapo electric saw loaned to me and had a neighbor help me cut up some mill slabs with it for firewood. Its really easy to start, just push the safety button in and pull the trigger. It cut better than I expected, its now got me thinking of a decent electric saw just for cutting up slabs in the yard type stuff. So, anyone have any info about them? The Stihl electrics I looked at a year or so ago were pretty serious money, like more than a gas saw, but they are probably very good saws. Is there a median point of cost and usefulness?

I'll say it again, the Dolmar 421 is easy to start. Most Dolmars are really easy to start.

5:30 if the video embed doesn't take you to that spot.


https://youtu.be/rp-dtkqdYwc?t=5m30s

[Luke]

One thing I heard about electric saws is that they're not as safe w/ regards to automatically stopping in an accident. I heard this, I don't know anything about them myself. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I can answer up.

They have th same kickback safety as other saws and stop spinning when you let off the trigger.

[LittleLebowski]

They have th same kickback safety as other saws and stop spinning when you let off the trigger.

This (http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/electric-chainsaw-and-chaps-warning.36621/) is what I read.

[Luke]

Idk man. I'll mention it next time we have the saws out and see if anyone wants to try and cut their leg off lol. Lots of speculation, only way to know is try it.

[LittleLebowski]

The new-to-me Makita/Dolmar 6400 had a problem with the chain moving at idle, no doubt a remnant of its tough days as a Home Depot rental. After attempting to adjust the idle screw and the Low carb needle to fix this, I replaced the clutch springs and the clutch drum ($30 shipped) and those part replacements (probably the clutch springs) fixed the problem instantly.

The saw exhibits the German quality that I've grown accustomed to from my little Dolmar 421. It always starts, it is never hard to start. Two pulls, no more. Just slap some Stihl non-safety chain on there and bury that bar, Big Blue (as my daughter calls it) can handle it. Though it's a large and heavy saw, the weight does not bother me. The longer bar and greater power makes bucking easier.

Today, I bucked and split up an old deadfall tree that was nice and dry, but not rotten. I'll heat my house for maybe four days or so with it.

[LittleLebowski]

I want to get rid of both of these down at our lake house. I'm guesstimating about 70 feet tall. The cottonwood on the left is about 40" in diameter at it's widest and the one on the right, maybe a maple?, is about 38" in diameter at it's widest.

I would think felling them onto the winter ice would be my best bet, and then cutting them up. Lots of variables to consider like direction, don't want to hit the house, and if the ice is thick enough, plus removal... As an amateur am I better off leaving these to the professionals? Anybody have an idea of what it would cost for removal?

ETA - Not sure why the image got flipped.



If they have a good lean towards the lake, if you have some knowledge of felling, sure. It's impossible to get a good read on the situation from the pictures you posted. If the conditions are favorable, you get a chainsaw and save hundreds of dollars. If not, call a pro, anyone with insurance they can show you.

[LittleLebowski]

The only thing I can say on them is that a close friend of mine who's in the business has bought a battery-powered Husky climbing saw, I've test run it, and it's got plenty of guts. He says he can prune with it all day up in the tree on one battery charge. It's really pretty amazing. Big advantage is no more yanking pull cords / fooling with chokes / screaming saws. It weighs as much and costs as much as a gas-powered pro saw. He said he'll probably replace all his gas-powered climbing saws with these if this one continues to impress.

I'm on the lookout for good, used, gas powered, climbing saws, just saying...

[Welder]

I'm on the lookout for good, used, gas powered, climbing saws, just saying...

I probably have enough 020T donors and parts around here to put one together for you. I'll look one day when I'm home and let you know. If a month goes by and you don't hear from me, hit me with a PM. My memory isn't the best sometimes.

[LittleLebowski]

I probably have enough 020T donors and parts around here to put one together for you. I'll look one day when I'm home and let you know. If a month goes by and you don't hear from me, hit me with a PM. My memory isn't the best sometimes.

Let me know! Take my money!

12768

[LittleLebowski]

Had a big, dead leaner resting on another tree (it had fallen there), slowly bringing the live tree down.

First cuts, had to adjust my angle on one of the top cuts as you can see. It is difficult to do these (at least for me) as leaners can be dangerous, do unpredictable things, and you have to cut at nearly eye level in order to get the work done. I used my 16" Dolmar 421, the lightest saw I own.

12769

Picture taken from another angle...

12770

First and second cuts complete, it fell straight down/vertically each time as you can see, so more work to do.

12771

Third cut done, the cut was completed, and the log swung up into the horizontal violently, but I was anticipating that, and was well out of the way.

12772

All done, nice dry wood being bucked for the fireplace. Only the top branches were rotten, the rest is excellent firewood.

12773

Love my Dolmar 421!

12774

Tools of this working man.

12775

[Cookie Monster]

Reason for the "in tree saw"?

I got one I bought for carving notches for barb wire fence corners. It's light and great for that carving sort of stuff but for normal work it offers some challenges and I find myself one handing things for no good reason.

You're right to take care with the leaners, any reason you just didn't do a straight up and down cut and dealt with the notching?

Looking for input, lots ways to skin the cat but I would of started at waist level and done a cut on the tree perpendicular to the ground and done the until it was small enough to man handle. I run a 28 inch bar for that work so there is a little distance betweeen me and the stick of death.

I got some saw pictures around here somewhere.

[LittleLebowski]

Reason for the "in tree saw"?

I got one I bought for carving notches for barb wire fence corners. It's light and great for that carving sort of stuff but for normal work it offers some challenges and I find myself one handing things for no good reason.

Tall stuff I can't or won't cut down myself, but reachable by ladder. Basically limbing.


You're right to take care with the leaners, any reason you just didn't do a straight up and down cut and dealt with the notching?

Looking for input, lots ways to skin the cat but I would of started at waist level and done a cut on the tree perpendicular to the ground and done the until it was small enough to man handle. I run a 28 inch bar for that work so there is a little distance betweeen me and the stick of death.

I got some saw pictures around here somewhere.

I'm prolly misunderstanding you (see my custom title), but with such a vertical lean, in my limited experience, without a nice cut giving you room to work, the pinched bar can happen easily and often. I was using my 16" Dolmar 421, my "big" saw is a Dolmar/Makita 6400 64cc 20" bar. It can pull a larger bar no problem, but I haven't felt the need for that yet.

I think I could have done what you described, if I'd remembered my felling wedges. It seems like your technique would allow the bottom section to simply drop off, instead of dicking around with angles on a cut, right? Of course, you would still have the danger of a vertical tree suddenly swinging into the horizontal, but if you plan for that and are wary, it's no problem. Let me know if that makes sense or if I'm totally fucked up.

[Cookie Monster]

You got me just fine. I described it a little wrong. It's about reading the tension and compression in the wood, so I would start on the underside. Look on You Tube for "BC Faller" videos, it is a series for loggers developed by British Columbia. They are good.

Yea, getting a hung up or a leaning tree on the ground is one of the more dangerous things you can do with a saw. So really a winch or something like that should be the first call.

If you are not doing stuff that requires a large bar, there is no reason to use one. The saws at work have 28 inch bars so I try to match that in my personal saws

Instead of an in tree, top handle saw, I would look at a pole saw, even a manual one depending on how much work you need to get done. I've limbed using a ladder and it is slow setting the ladder on uneven terrain and twirling it around the tree and then you end up reaching too much and cutting stuff you are not really having good sight on. And big limbs come down and rock the ladder.

[oakdalecurtis]

In my younger years, I used chain saws professionally. The biggest mistake I see when I encounter someone using one is that they sharpen the teeth, but they don't understand the purpose of the rakers. The rakers control the depth that the cutting tooth can bite into the wood. If you look closely at a cutting tooth, it angles slightly down from its cutting edge. As you sharpen it repeatedly, over time the cutting edge gets lower and lower relative to the raker on its other end of the link and the cutting tooth can bite less and less wood. When I see someone using a chain saw, I can tell just by looking at the wood chips if the rakers have been filed down properly to allow the teeth to cut deep enough. If you are getting substantial sized curved wood chips and can load the saw down with bar pressure into the cut, you have the rakers low enough. But what I see most often are saws throwing "chip dust", very inefficient and ineffective. When you sharpen the teeth, make sure you use a flat file and put a few strokes on each raker. One test cut when finished will tell you if you have lowered the rakers enough. Look for big curved wood chips coming out, not small flakes or dust. With one flat file for the rakers, and one round tooth file for the teeth, it is very easy to sharpen a chain and I highly recommend you learn to do it regularly if you own one.

[LittleLebowski]

You got me just fine. I described it a little wrong. It's about reading the tension and compression in the wood, so I would start on the underside. Look on You Tube for "BC Faller" videos, it is a series for loggers developed by British Columbia. They are good.

Yea, getting a hung up or a leaning tree on the ground is one of the more dangerous things you can do with a saw. So really a winch or something like that should be the first call.

If you are not doing stuff that requires a large bar, there is no reason to use one. The saws at work have 28 inch bars so I try to match that in my personal saws

Instead of an in tree, top handle saw, I would look at a pole saw, even a manual one depending on how much work you need to get done. I've limbed using a ladder and it is slow setting the ladder on uneven terrain and twirling it around the tree and then you end up reaching too much and cutting stuff you are not really having good sight on. And big limbs come down and rock the ladder.

Yeah, I start on the underside for each cut on these leaners. I don't have a gas powered pole saw and don't like disking around with bringing the generator out for my electric one plus dealing with the cable.

I think I can actually use both a pole saw and a in-tree saw, I've got a lot of trees.

I'll check out those videos you mentioned, I enjoy watching chainsaw how-tos.

[LittleLebowski]

You got me just fine. I described it a little wrong. It's about reading the tension and compression in the wood, so I would start on the underside. Look on You Tube for "BC Faller" videos, it is a series for loggers developed by British Columbia. They are good.

Yea, getting a hung up or a leaning tree on the ground is one of the more dangerous things you can do with a saw. So really a winch or something like that should be the first call.

If you are not doing stuff that requires a large bar, there is no reason to use one. The saws at work have 28 inch bars so I try to match that in my personal saws

Instead of an in tree, top handle saw, I would look at a pole saw, even a manual one depending on how much work you need to get done. I've limbed using a ladder and it is slow setting the ladder on uneven terrain and twirling it around the tree and then you end up reaching too much and cutting stuff you are not really having good sight on. And big limbs come down and rock the ladder.

If you like guns and chainsaws...we should prolly hang out :D

[Cookie Monster]

If you like guns and chainsaws...we should prolly hang out :D


It would not be a wasted life if I could get by just running the chainsaw and shooting things.

12847

Putting the 12 cords I cut last summer to good use tonight. Low should be 0, and not the dumb metric 0.

Looking forward to getting back out and cutting more in Spring as well as more clearing on the property to prepare for fire season.

[LittleLebowski]

Picked up a Makita 64cc that is a Dolmar rebranded as a Makita (note the "Made in Germany" bit on the specs). Power...I haz. I blame SLG for this. It's a former Home Depot rental that I got for cheaper than my Dolmar 421.

Had a nice time taking down a larger white oak today. It's wonderful when a machine really works well and my 64cc Dolmar did fantastic. Just chewed right through this tree and quickly. The hinge is ugly but the tree fell right where I wanted it to. vaspence

[Luke]

I'm under contract with a house right now, if they'll fix what I want we shall own it. It has ~25 trees in the back yard that need to be cut. I plan to climb them and top them and then go from there. I've never cut a tree down lol. Go big or go home.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm under contract with a house right now, if they'll fix what I want we shall own it. It has ~25 trees in the back yard that need to be cut. I plan to climb them and top them and then go from there. I've never cut a tree down lol. Go big or go home.

What climbing saw will you be using?

[RoyGBiv]

Had a bunch of downed trees and limbs from a small (EF-0) tornado that came through here the other night.
Thankfully I got my Stihl MS250 back from the shop (again) last week, so I had it handy.
This POS struggles with anything more than about a 6" cut. Had to cut from both sides way too often on non-imposing timber.

After my neighbor killed my 20-year-old, never-a-problem, chains-fuel-and-oil-only Husky (460?), I have been nothing but disappointed by this Stihl. My performance expectations were much lower, of course, but this saw always underwhelms. I would never buy another.

[Cookie Monster]

Had a bunch of downed trees and limbs from a small (EF-0) tornado that came through here the other night.
Thankfully I got my Stihl MS250 back from the shop (again) last week, so I had it handy.
This POS struggles with anything more than about a 6" cut. Had to cut from both sides way too often on non-imposing timber.

After my neighbor killed my 20-year-old, never-a-problem, chains-fuel-and-oil-only Husky (460?), I have been nothing but disappointed by this Stihl. My performance expectations were much lower, of course, but this saw always underwhelms. I would never buy another.

It's seems like no saw should cut like that. Was it throwing good chips? Was it stalling? I'd get it checked or trade it in.

I'm a STIHL dude, but really any orange saw is not a bad choice. I cut a fair amount of wood so I look in the pro range saws which ironically only have a 90 day warranty.

[Cookie Monster]

I like that the chainsaw thread is back alive.

[LittleLebowski]

Had a bunch of downed trees and limbs from a small (EF-0) tornado that came through here the other night.
Thankfully I got my Stihl MS250 back from the shop (again) last week, so I had it handy.
This POS struggles with anything more than about a 6" cut. Had to cut from both sides way too often on non-imposing timber.

After my neighbor killed my 20-year-old, never-a-problem, chains-fuel-and-oil-only Husky (460?), I have been nothing but disappointed by this Stihl. My performance expectations were much lower, of course, but this saw always underwhelms. I would never buy another.

Tell us about the chain on your MS250.

[RoyGBiv]

It's seems like no saw should cut like that. Was it throwing good chips? Was it stalling? I'd get it checked or trade it in.

I'm a STIHL dude, but really any orange saw is not a bad choice. I cut a fair amount of wood so I look in the pro range saws which ironically only have a 90 day warranty.
I just got it back from being serviced. This was the first time I ran it since getting it back last week. Started fine, revved fine.
Spitting out lots of right-sized sawdust. Plenty of revs until I get about 3-4 inches deep in a 6-8 inch log (branch, really). Then it slows or bogs.
Chain is in good shape. Once it stops cutting effectively I can remove the bar, approach from the other side of the cut and finish the job.
What I'm seeing is definitely not due to any bar/chain-pinching. I've cleared my fair share of trees to know the difference. The saw just seems underpowered for even an 8" cut.
Runs fine for cutting 4 inches or less.. 5-6 inches starts to show weakness and more than 6-ish is un-fun. Maybe a carb adjustment? This thing has been this way since new.

Dunno.

Next saw will be another Husqy.

[Luke]

What climbing saw will you be using?

Abnormal chainsaw hooked my my hand line lol

[LittleLebowski]

I just got it back from being serviced. This was the first time I ran it since getting it back last week. Started fine, revved fine.
Spitting out lots of right-sized sawdust. Plenty of revs until I get about 3-4 inches deep in a 6-8 inch log (branch, really). Then it slows or bogs.
Chain is in good shape. Once it stops cutting effectively I can remove the bar, approach from the other side of the cut and finish the job.
What I'm seeing is definitely not due to any bar/chain-pinching. I've cleared my fair share of trees to know the difference. The saw just seems underpowered for even an 8" cut.
Runs fine for cutting 4 inches or less.. 5-6 inches starts to show weakness and more than 6-ish is un-fun. Maybe a carb adjustment? This thing has been this way since new.

Dunno.

Next saw will be another Husqy.

Sounds like it might be bogged down by EPA regulated stuff like maybe a cat?

Changing name brands doesn't guarantee better performance for the same money. I'd strongly recommend looking at the Dolmar 421, it's a pro-grade saw with 2 year warranty for under $350. If you really need !POWER! the Dolmar/Makita 6400 can be had used from Home Depot for under $300 and that thing has oodles of !POWER!. Both made in Germany by Germans. Not German name branded Chinese made saws.

[LittleLebowski]

Abnormal chainsaw hooked my my hand line lol


Someday, I'll speak text/millennial :D

[Welder]

RoyGBiv, have you cleaned (or removed) the spark arrestor? Those things can clog up and leave a person scratching their head. The MS250 is a pretty common saw, not one I particularly like, but the lack of power you're describing isn't normal for it.

If you have an automotive compression gauge with multi-thread adapter, pull your spark plug, thread the adapter hose in there, and pull the saw over a few times to see what you get. Unless the engine is new and the rings haven't seated, you're getting pretty weak south of 135 psi. Many saws won't start under 120 or so. A good healthy reading is around 150, and on smaller saws I've seen numbers approaching 200 psi. All of these were Stihls, mind you. A brand new MS201T was 90 psi before it'd been started and the rings broken in.

[Cookie Monster]

I just got it back from being serviced. This was the first time I ran it since getting it back last week. Started fine, revved fine.
Spitting out lots of right-sized sawdust. Plenty of revs until I get about 3-4 inches deep in a 6-8 inch log (branch, really). Then it slows or bogs.
Chain is in good shape. Once it stops cutting effectively I can remove the bar, approach from the other side of the cut and finish the job.
What I'm seeing is definitely not due to any bar/chain-pinching. I've cleared my fair share of trees to know the difference. The saw just seems underpowered for even an 8" cut.
Runs fine for cutting 4 inches or less.. 5-6 inches starts to show weakness and more than 6-ish is un-fun. Maybe a carb adjustment? This thing has been this way since new.

Dunno.

Next saw will be another Husqy.

I figured you knew, sounds like you have the fundamentals covered. I agree with T-bone, something is wrong with the saw. All my Stilhs rip but also know pro fallers/fire crews who rock the husky. That's frustrating, I would of thrown that saw in a burn pile and walked away if that was my cutting experience.

I'm thinking about buying a log truck or two of firewood, with that I might be able justify a 461 or a 661 for chunking rounds.

[LittleLebowski]

I just got it back from being serviced. This was the first time I ran it since getting it back last week. Started fine, revved fine.
Spitting out lots of right-sized sawdust. Plenty of revs until I get about 3-4 inches deep in a 6-8 inch log (branch, really). Then it slows or bogs.
Chain is in good shape. Once it stops cutting effectively I can remove the bar, approach from the other side of the cut and finish the job.
What I'm seeing is definitely not due to any bar/chain-pinching. I've cleared my fair share of trees to know the difference. The saw just seems underpowered for even an 8" cut.
Runs fine for cutting 4 inches or less.. 5-6 inches starts to show weakness and more than 6-ish is un-fun. Maybe a carb adjustment? This thing has been this way since new.

Dunno.

Next saw will be another Husqy.

What dos your dealer say about this?

[LittleLebowski]

More felling and bucking, white oaks. Despite shooting, reloading, and being shot in my right arm, I very much enjoy manual labor and don't feel tendinitis in my strong elbow that was shot and rebuilt.

The Dolmar 6400 is just a beast. Two pulls total to start. It just rips right through white oak (hand sharpened Stihl semichisel, nonsafety chain). My felling cuts keep on ending up angled and ugly but...they work, the trees land right where I want them. That being said, I'm going to work on better felling cuts, watch some more videos on the topic. I really can't say enough about how nice it is to bear down as hard as I can on say a 24" trunk and the saw doesn't bog at all. I love equipment that just works. For way less than $300, I got a true pro-grade saw with oodles of power - the Home Depot used Dolmar/Makitas are a steal.

More tree felling and bucking to come as I try to clear more land before it gets too hot.

[RoyGBiv]

What dos your dealer say about this?

When I picked it up at the ACE hardware, from where it was purchased, I asked to speak to the repair tech and was told that their Stihl service guy was in their sister store 15 miles away. They shipped it over there to be repaired and then shipped back. IOW, a dead end.

Wanna buy a saw?

Thanks for the Dolmar/Makita advice.

[LittleLebowski]

When I picked it up at the ACE hardware, from where it was purchased, I asked to speak to the repair tech and was told that their Stihl service guy was in their sister store 15 miles away. They shipped it over there to be repaired and then shipped back. IOW, a dead end.

Wanna buy a saw?

Thanks for the Dolmar/Makita advice.

Go to the Stihl dealer. Call ahead, explain, set up a time.

[LittleLebowski]

When I picked it up at the ACE hardware, from where it was purchased, I asked to speak to the repair tech and was told that their Stihl service guy was in their sister store 15 miles away. They shipped it over there to be repaired and then shipped back. IOW, a dead end.

Wanna buy a saw?

Thanks for the Dolmar/Makita advice.

I re-read what you wrote and I'm pretty sure that their "Stihl service guy" is not an actual Stihl dealership guy, but rather a local small engine/chainsaw guy that is probably competent but has no vested interest in seeing you satisfied nor does he do much more than the bare minimum (dealt with this before with Poulan's "support network").

You need to go to an actual Stihl dealer. I'm certain the dealer will give you better support. A good dealer will even perform some test cuts out back. See if you can find a Stihl dealer nearby, call them, explain, set up an appointment.

[RoyGBiv]

I re-read what you wrote and I'm pretty sure that their "Stihl service guy" is not an actual Stihl dealership guy, but rather a local small engine/chainsaw guy that is probably competent but has no vested interest in seeing you satisfied nor does he do much more than the bare minimum (dealt with this before with Poulan's "support network").

You need to go to an actual Stihl dealer. I'm certain the dealer will give you better support. A good dealer will even perform some test cuts out back. See if you can find a Stihl dealer nearby, call them, explain, set up an appointment.
The local ACE is listed as a "Dealer" on the Stihl web site... but I see another local "Dealer" listed with a "Gold-Level Servicing Technician" designation (defined as .... at least ONE trained tech).... There's not a "we sell nothing but Stihl" shop anywhere nearby. I'll reach out to the Gold-Level shop and see what their wait times are like. Hopefully the spring crush has subsided. Honestly, if I'm looking at $50 - $100 for someone to tell me the saw is performing nominally, or that the saw has problems but is out of warranty so it'll cost me $$$$ to make it right, I'd consider it a much better investment putting that $$ towards a new saw... but.. your passion has me on the fence.

[LittleLebowski]

You could also consider raising a big stink with Ace complete with documentation of your issues and request a refund. Or maybe find an actual chainsaw guy locally that the local arborists use since that guy will fix your saw, albeit for money out of your pocket. Also, going up the chain of command at Ace to request better service might be an idea.

The nice thing about my Dolmar 421 is that for the price of shipping, the dealer I bought it from (https://performanceoutdoorequipment.com/products/dolmar-ps-421) will absolutely stand behind the 2 year warranty. Not that I've ever needed it.

[Malamute]

Im also thinking Roys saw can be fixed. The idea of cleaning out the spark arrestor, and carb adjustment both may have value, Ive had issues with both. The manual should have basic info on the carb adjustment. Your service people suck if they couldn't get it running right,...and charged you. Id request a refund for the service and go elsewhere, or do it yourself. A hardcore pro user could probably make it run in 10 minutes. They cant depend on a shop for every little adjustment and fix to get them running. Ive had mine in a decent shop, but in the end, it was me that adjusted the carb, and figured out the spark arrestor was clogged up after using it at low speed as a plane on a cabin project. They don't like running at low speed. Spark arrestor was clogged with carbon crud. The 35 mile one way drive to town and potential wait encouraged me to figure it out. Cleaning the wood chips and junk off the air filter is about the only other thing Ive had to do. M-16 gun cleaning toothbrushes are perfect for cleaning mine.


ETA: Thinking further, I recall hearing other people running saws that didn't sound right. Like the carb wasn't adjusted right. Once you do it yourself, youd understand. Its partly done by sound and how the saw runs out at different speeds while adjusting it. If its too rich, it may be clogging up the spark arrestor after a short time, or fouling the spark plug. Its like magic when they are adjusted right. I'm not sure the guys in shops completely understand all that, despite having some knowledge of mechanics and lawnmowers and such.

Dumping the fuel and starting with fresh (like this weeks gas, not last months or last years), and using GOOD mixing oil may help. Cheapo mixing oil is recommended to be mixed at a different rate. Stihl oil has always worked well in mine.

[LittleLebowski]

I definitely think that it can be fixed.

[RoyGBiv]

I'll check/clean the exhaust side at next opportunity...
Need to tear down and rebuild a section of fence that was storm-damaged last week...
Demoing a fence isn't much of a test, but would be an opportunity/reason to check it again and adjust the screws.

The carb is spotless... Cleaned it myself before taking it in. Might be worth a new gasket, but, the installed one looks intact.

[Malamute]

There should be a piece of screen inside. If its obstructed or clogged it wont breathe well.

[RoyGBiv]

There should be a piece of screen inside. If its obstructed or clogged it wont breathe well.

Copy that.
I assumed they checked that at time of service, but, you know what happens when you assume.
I had not checked that screen, only the carb side.

[Malamute]

I had assumed they were going to adjust my carb to run at our elevation, but that was also an incorrect assumption.

If you don't have a copy of your manual describing how to adjust the carb, I can take pics of mine and send them to you.

[Welder]

You'll want something like 2+2 (Gum Cutter / carb cleaner) and a toothbrush / fine wire brush and preferably compressed air to get that arrestor screen clean. Lots of people spray carb cleaner on it and think they got it, but that carbon is on there pretty good.

On the carb adjustment, the saw should 4-stroke when held wide open in the air, then the sound should clean up and it should 2-stroke in the cut. This stuff is adjusted by the H screw. If a person messes it up, the saw will either have no legs or go lean and burn up. There are probably some decent youtube vids out demonstrating the proper sound you're wanting. If you remove and discard the spark arrestor screen, you will probably need to richen the H screw.

[RoyGBiv]

Checked at lunchtime...
1. Spark screen is clear.
2. Carb screws are set nowhere near what it says in the manual..
3. Current gasket between the carb and the engine looks like this one...

15400

4. Online lookup (and Gold-Service dealer confirms) says the gasket should look like this one...

15402

I believe the installed gasket is ok, assuming it's not been damaged. I'll replace it.

Possibly the ACE guys installed a carb from the wrong model??
I know, I know... Caveat emptor. But who the hell has time for this crap?
That's why I paid to have it serviced. >facepalm>

[Malamute]

Yes, PIA, but you may have started on the road to getting it running properly.

Good luck. let us know.

[OlongJohnson]

This is why I am stuck in DIY hell.

[LittleLebowski]

I wouldn't worry about those gaskets, leave'em alone.


Checked at lunchtime...
1. Spark screen is clear.
2. Carb screws are set nowhere near what it says in the manual..
3. Current gasket between the carb and the engine looks like this one...

15400

4. Online lookup (and Gold-Service dealer confirms) says the gasket should look like this one...

15402

I believe the installed gasket is ok, assuming it's not been damaged. I'll replace it.

Possibly the ACE guys installed a carb from the wrong model??
I know, I know... Caveat emptor. But who the hell has time for this crap?
That's why I paid to have it serviced. >facepalm>

[RoyGBiv]

I spent some time this weekend and took off the carb, took it apart, cleaned and replaced the gaskets, replaced the manifold gasket and also replaced the chain.
Guess what? It runs pretty well now. I cut a few slices off a 12" trunk with no bogging.
Not sure if it was the carb or the chain or all of the above... but.. the thing is working correctly.

Proof that sometimes ya gotta just do it yourself.

Thanks for the motivation.

New thread name should be "LittleLebowski's big gay inspirational chainsaw thread"

[LittleLebowski]

I spent some time this weekend and took off the carb, took it apart, cleaned and replaced the gaskets, replaced the manifold gasket and also replaced the chain.
Guess what? It runs pretty well now. I cut a few slices off a 12" trunk with no bogging.
Not sure if it was the carb or the chain or all of the above... but.. the thing is working correctly.

Proof that sometimes ya gotta just do it yourself.

Thanks for the motivation.

New thread name should be "LittleLebowski's big gay inspirational chainsaw thread"

Good job and will do.

[LittleLebowski]

Lost nearly two pounds with the new bar.

16119

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Holy sweet Jesus, I didn't realize we had a chainsaw thread here. I fucking love chainsaws....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170430/65a5b1a76313788ea6794aff5da6a1ee.jpg

Picking up a 661 and a 201 t here soon also.


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[vaspence]

Lost a couple tress in the winds here yesterday and the little MS 210 wasn't going to do it. I also didn't feel like driving 2 hours round trip to retrieve a larger saw. Pulled the trigger on a Stihl MS 261C (18" bar) this morning and went to work. FWIW I looked very hard at the Dolmar saws, but my local Stihl shop guys are great and I've had years of good service from my Stihl tools.

16201

16202

16203

[LittleLebowski]

vaspence, NICE. I'd take an MS241 and MS261 for my do it all saws in a heartbeat, even over Huskys. Wish I was there to help out. Felling the tree is the easy part, all of the damn clean up with the top growth and stacking the logs is a pain.

[LittleLebowski]

Yup, come on in, the water's fine! The 201 is sweet.


Holy sweet Jesus, I didn't realize we had a chainsaw thread here. I fucking love chainsaws....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170430/65a5b1a76313788ea6794aff5da6a1ee.jpg

Picking up a 661 and a 201 t here soon also.


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[Mr. Goodtimes]

Yup, come on in, the water's fine! The 201 is sweet.

Thanks for letting me in buddy, the water is right nice in here. I ordered up my saws today. MS 661 CM with 20" and 25" ES Light bars and I ended up getting a 193T for my in tree saw. My dealer cut me (phrasing) a pretty sweet deal on both. I paid $1108.99 for the 661 w/ 25" ES Light bar and $288.99 for the 193T.


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[Mr. Goodtimes]

661 CM and 193T came today!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/cc9852937ff21f5a8d8a70d1a59a3a14.jpg


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[SJC3081]

My son in front of half of my 2017/18 wood boiler supply.

[vaspence]

vaspence, NICE. I'd take an MS241 and MS261 for my do it all saws in a heartbeat, even over Huskys. Wish I was there to help out. Felling the tree is the easy part, all of the damn clean up with the top growth and stacking the logs is a pain.

I would've appreciated the help! I got the little saw and had the laps gone that evening. The bigger stuff was/is fun. It's been a while since I bucked a log without heavy equipment and I had to use an old axe as a wedge the first day.

[LittleLebowski]

I would've appreciated the help! I got the little saw and had the laps gone that evening. The bigger stuff was/is fun. It's been a while since I bucked a log without heavy equipment and I had to use an old axe as a wedge the first day.

After many painful experiences, I think I'm finally at the point where I remember my wedges when going out to run a saw. Invaluable.

[LittleLebowski]

I spent a few hours on a tall ladder yesterday, trimming away huge branches overhanging my roof. I used my Harbor Freight pole saw (https://www.harborfreight.com/95-in-7-amp-electric-pole-saw-62896.html) and it never bobbled, it gave good service. Sharpened the chain once, the rakers were shockingly bad. The oiler could have oiled a bit more heavily, but I don't think it is adjustable. It was tough work, done by myself. Lots of worrying over whether or not a 40' "branch" would hit me or the house, but no mishaps occurred. My entire trunk/torso hurts today, breathing is painful, but it is satisfying to have this done sans accidents.

I strongly recommend the Harbor Freight pole saw. Yesterday, I ran mine off of my Champion generator; no issues. Using the current Harbor Freight 20% off coupon (https://www.harborfreight.com/digitalsavings.html) (print it out), the total before tax is $68.

[LittleLebowski]

661 CM and 193T came today!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/cc9852937ff21f5a8d8a70d1a59a3a14.jpg



That lineup is hot and I can't think of much you couldn't handle with it. Kinda envious :)

[Mr. Goodtimes]

That lineup is hot and I can't think of much you couldn't handle with it. Kinda envious :)

It is my trifecta of doom. Although now there's a fourth member, so I don't know what that makes it. I picked up an HT133 pole pruner too. I figured it would be good for palms and some of the smaller oaks I run into in newer neighborhoods.

Also, there's a strong possibility, as in likelihood that when the new MS 462 hits the market ill have to have one. Same power I believe as the current 461 but similar in weight to a 362. I'll run it with a 20" bar.


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[RoyGBiv]

It is my trifecta of doom. Although now there's a fourth member, so I don't know what that makes it.

The Four 1/2 Horsemen of Doom?
................................. of Treepocalypse?

[rob_s]

Without reading back through all 7 pages...

What is the suggested Glock/6920 answer here? Assume buying new, but rarely having a need/use. Make/model/bar length? Something that, when you go to grab it once a year after a storm you know will turn over and cut. SE Florida usage (pines, palms, etc.)

[martin_j001]

Without reading back through all 7 pages...

What is the suggested Glock/6920 answer here? Assume buying new, but rarely having a need/use. Make/model/bar length? Something that, when you go to grab it once a year after a storm you know will turn over and cut. SE Florida usage (pines, palms, etc.)

Also did not read through all previous pages... I bought my Stihl MS261 for this basic idea (although not for use on palms...not sure honestly if that changes things or not). My MS261 has come in very handy--both on my own property and that of friends, and has run very reliably for me.

[rob_s]

I'm kind of curious about the "STIHL Easy2Start™ (E)", as I like the concept but am concerned if it adds additional or unique parts and pieces that may make it more prone to breakage or harder to find parts if I need them.

Specifically looking at this one
MS 251 C-BE (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/homeowner-saws/ms251cbe/)

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Without reading back through all 7 pages...

What is the suggested Glock/6920 answer here? Assume buying new, but rarely having a need/use. Make/model/bar length? Something that, when you go to grab it once a year after a storm you know will turn over and cut. SE Florida usage (pines, palms, etc.)

Buy an MS362 with a 16in bar. It's light weight, powerful and it's a pro saw. The 261 is also an extremely good saw, however, if you're only going to have one saw, the 362 may be a better fit. I have several saws, a 193T, 261CM and 661CM. If I was only going to have one saw, however, it would be a good 60cc saw like a 362. I do a majority of my tree work with a 16" bar and my MS261. It's my go to saw.

Palms are a PITA to work with. I don't think anything cuts palms particularly well. Make sure you clean your saw extremely well after cutting up palms.

As far as infrequently used and always reliable, the best thing you can do there is use ethanol free gas, and if the saw is going to sit for more than a couple weeks, drain the fuel and run it dry. Never, ever, ever run ethanol gas in you're saw. That shit is the work of Satan.

Also, another thing you may want to look into is a good power pole saw. I have an HT133 and it's probably the best $550 I've ever spent. It extends to I think about 17" and is a huge time saver when I prune oaks. I'm able to clean out the bottom of a large oak tree in about 20 min which gives me better access when positioning a climbing line for rope access and it's also a real time saver when pruning many palm trees. It also works very well for limbing downed trees.


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[rob_s]

Buy an MS362 with a 16in bar. It's light weight, powerful and it's a pro saw. The 261 is also an extremely good saw, however, if you're only going to have one saw, the 362 may be a better fit. I have several saws, a 193T, 261CM and 661CM. If I was only going to have one saw, however, it would be a good 60cc saw like a 362. I do a majority of my tree work with a 16" bar and my MS261. It's my go to saw.


So the big thing that sets the 362 above the 261 is the 60cc vs 45? Is there anything else that sets the "pro" line above the "homeowner" line?

[Mr. Goodtimes]

So the big thing that sets the 362 above the 261 is the 60cc vs 45? Is there anything else that sets the "pro" line above the "homeowner" line?

The 261 is a 50cc saw and the 362 a 60cc, I believe the 241 is a 45 or 40cc. And yes, basically. The 362 is slightly heavier and produces a little more power. Also, the 362 will pull a 20in bar with authority, where the 261 won't do quite as well.

General consensus is that if you're going to own one saw, 60cc is the way to go. Even having 3 saws I may still get me a 362 down the road.

I couldn't break everything down for you individually, but, basically, the pro saws are a lot lighter weight, produce more power and are much more durable than the homeowner saws. Think KAC SR-15 vs M&P Sport.

Also, my MS261 set me back approximately $550-600 (can't remember exactly) which really isn't that much money when you factor in how much life you'll get out of it. Resale value is much higher on a pro saw.


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[Cookie Monster]

261 or 362 Stihl is the answer. I would lean towards the 261, lighter saw that is easier to work. Pro saws only have 90 day warranty compared to homeowner which have a 1 year. Chains are like magazines, get a bunch. Sharp chains are the shit.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

261 or 362 Stihl is the answer. I would lean towards the 261, lighter saw that is easier to work. Pro saws only have 90 day warranty compared to homeowner which have a 1 year. Chains are like magazines, get a bunch. Sharp chains are the shit.

I think if you buy a case of Stihl Ultra with your saw then give you a 1 r yr warranty.


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