PDA

View Full Version : HK P2000 passive safety issue



Sero Sed Serio
02-24-2016, 12:26 AM
Nothing worse than when New Gun Day turns out to be no new gun day...

Today I went to my FFL to pick up my NIB P2000 V3 DA/SA LE version that I ordered from a reputable dealer. They bring out the gun, which has a 2015 "BF" date code, and I clear it. I start giving it a thorough inspection, including full function test. After checking out the DA and SA trigger pulls, I cycle the slide and use the decocker to drop the hammer. The hammer falls past the safety intercept (or whatever it's called) and hits the firing pin. The trigger stayed all the way forward against the firing pin, and hammer had play in it, as it does after dry-firing the gun (as opposed to using the decocker, where the hammer cannot be pushed forward, and has tension on it when being pulled back). "Hmmm" says I..."something is amiss." (Or "What the @#$%?!?" It was one of those two, I'm sure, but since I'm telling the story, I get to sound sophisticated and intelligent). I cycle the slide again and hit the decocker, same result. I pull the trigger, then try thumbing the hammer back slowly. Sure enough, no click of the safety intercept engaging. I work the hammer several times, and it just flat-out will not engage the safety intercept. Anyone have any idea of what could cause this? The hammer was the spur hammer, so it's not like they mixed up an LEM hammer or something. Thoughts?

I tell the employee who is going to handle the paperwork. He gives me the vibe that he has no idea of what I'm talking about, but is at least open to the concept. He grabs a P2000SK off the consignment wall, and sure enough, after dry-firing the gun, then slowly thumbing the hammer back, we hear the distinct click as the hammer passes the safety intercept. When we decock the SK, the hammer stops at the safety intercept without going all the way forward, with no forward motion, and tension against backward tension. This is exactly what happens with my 2 full-size P2000s, my SK, and my USPc.

*BEGIN RANT BASED ON GUN STORE EMPLOYEE'S RESPONSE...I shouldn't be surprised, but I can't help but be offended at the level of dumbassery in this world at times...*

At this point the first employee is a believer, and seems to accept that I'm rejecting the transfer. However, he calls out the Cleetus that lives in the back who I believe is the store's "expert" or "gunsmith." I explain the situation to him, and he claims that it's because HK recently changed their decockers. I respond that I have three guns from the same year that don't exhibit this problem. He then says that he has "plenty" of HKs at home, and that some of them do this, and others do not. When this ringing endorsement fails to sway me, he proceeds to field-strip the gun, and alternates between dry-firing and decocking the frame with no slide on it (while the part of my brain that judges people's gun-handling skills explodes like the bad guys' heads in the Kingsman movie), then tries to convince me that the hammer is going a fraction of a millimeter further with the trigger vs. the decocker, so everything must be fine. When I tell him that I will not accept a gun where a safety mechanism is not functioning, and that I'm going to send it back to the vendor, he suggests that I call HK, ask them if there's a problem, and if they say yes, have it sent back to the factory. I ask why I would go to that trouble to get a repaired gun vs. sending it back and demanding a new one that was right the first, and he seemed offended. Eventually he did begrudgingly say that he would do whatever I wanted.

*RANT ENDED*

So basically I'm looking for a new HK and a new FFL. I'm going to call the dealer tomorrow to request that they send me a new gun (and that they check it over before sending it), and they send it to an FFL that costs nearly twice as much, but at least has a basic level of professionalism. In the meantime, do any of our HK Gurus have a guess as to what was going on with the gun? Oh, and as a gentle reminder, always thoroughly check your guns, even when coming from a reputable manufacturer....

1slow
02-24-2016, 12:48 AM
I test everything I carry, any company can slip up. You are well away from CCKOC (complete carnal knowledge of canine) FFL.

JHC
02-24-2016, 07:30 AM
Holy smokes. If I was into my first foray of buying a P2000 I would not have discovered that until I loaded it. Hopefully at the range.

GJM
02-24-2016, 07:45 AM
This is a disturbing pattern -- two HK pistols with problems in one week. Another one, and JHC will be starting a "recent HK pistol reliability thread."

Admit it JHC, an HK with problems gives you a tingle up your leg.

JHC
02-24-2016, 07:48 AM
This is a disturbing pattern -- two HK pistols with problems in one week. Another one, and JHC will be starting a "recent HK pistol reliability thread."

Admit it JHC, an HK with problems gives you a tingle up your leg.


Hey I just bought a Sig Navy. HK could have been next for me. I mean when there were issues with several mentioned here last year I felt like Garp seeing the Cessna crash into the home and then deciding to buy it. I mean what are the odds there will ever be another QC or design flaw HK event in my lifetime? ;)

Sero Sed Serio
02-24-2016, 12:38 PM
Holy smokes. If I was into my first foray of buying a P2000 I would not have discovered that until I loaded it. Hopefully at the range.

I'm guessing that the firing pin plunger block would have prevented a discharge. I'm not so confident in this that I would have been willing to experiment by decocking it while it was sitting in an AIWB holster...

Called the dealer first thing this morning...they got a return RMA no problem, and will inspect the replacement gun before it leaves the warehouse. They will also send the replacement to a different FFL. Overall I'm happy with their response. On an interesting note, the employee I talked to said there has been an uptick in returns with HKs as of late (as well as SIGs), and even asked if I wanted to try the same gun or if I just wanted a refund/different model. I asked what the issues were on the returns, and he said it was a bunch of things, safeties not working, and hammers not going all the way back.

I will update when I receive the new gun, hopefully sometime mid-next week.

JHC
02-24-2016, 01:47 PM
I'm guessing that the firing pin plunger block would have prevented a discharge. I'm not so confident in this that I would have been willing to experiment by decocking it while it was sitting in an AIWB holster...

Called the dealer first thing this morning...they got a return RMA no problem, and will inspect the replacement gun before it leaves the warehouse. They will also send the replacement to a different FFL. Overall I'm happy with their response. On an interesting note, the employee I talked to said there has been an uptick in returns with HKs as of late (as well as SIGs), and even asked if I wanted to try the same gun or if I just wanted a refund/different model. I asked what the issues were on the returns, and he said it was a bunch of things, safeties not working, and hammers not going all the way back.

I will update when I receive the new gun, hopefully sometime mid-next week.

You did a good job sticking to your guns on the spot. It's good you knew your HK mechanics. I'd have been buffaloe'd.

StraitR
02-25-2016, 12:50 AM
This does not help me with my current buying quandary. Or, maybe it does. After much deliberation I was sold on a 229, specifically the Legion feature set, then I read our Legion thread where 3 out of 3 had been sent back, one completely deadlined. I think GJM is the only one without an issue (yet?). So then I say, "screw it, I'll just buy the HK and deal with the sucky trigger in exchange for No Compromise" Now two broken HK's in a week, one deadlined and the other a major safety concern. Rare? Sure, but not confidence inspiring. Back to the drawing board.

I'm starting to think I should just change my panties and stick to my Glocks.

JCK, good catch, and although it's a sucky thing to deal with, I'm glad that pistol ended up in the hands of someone that knew enough to check such things. That could have ended badly otherwise.

spinmove_
02-25-2016, 08:10 AM
This does not help me with my current buying quandary. Or, maybe it does. After much deliberation I was sold on a 229, specifically the Legion feature set, then I read our Legion thread where 3 out of 3 had been sent back, one completely deadlined. I think GJM is the only one without an issue (yet?). So then I say, "screw it, I'll just buy the HK and deal with the sucky trigger in exchange for No Compromise" Now two broken HK's in a week, one deadlined and the other a major safety concern. Rare? Sure, but not confidence inspiring. Back to the drawing board.

I'm starting to think I should just change my panties and stick to my Glocks.

JCK, good catch, and although it's a sucky thing to deal with, I'm glad that pistol ended up in the hands of someone that knew enough to check such things. That could have ended badly otherwise.

Honestly, if you're happy with them, why not just stick with your Glocks? If it's because you just want something new to play with, is it really worth the money? If it's because it gives you that added layer of safety, would not purchasing gadgets resolve that issue? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious as to the root nature of your wanting to switch.

JAD
02-25-2016, 08:44 AM
I'm starting to think I should just change my panties and stick to my Glocks.

The mostly accurate quote is 'all pistols suck.'

Maybe you just need to set your sights higher. I don't hear a lot of people complaining about their new Wilson CQBs...

Tamara
02-25-2016, 09:25 AM
The Rashomon View:


So, the loser FFL in question, the one that was going to make $30 handling a transfer and no profit on the gun, they seemed balky when a (for all they knew) snooty-seeming customer was going to stick them for shipping costs, not to mention the time and labor involved in boxing the gun up and sending it back, when they hadn't ordered the gun in the first place and were looking at possibly losing money on the whole transaction?

Gosh, I can't imagine where their reluctance stemmed from.


If you up-front offered to do all the phone calls/legwork to arrange the RMA/return shipping, disregard the above.

Tamara
02-25-2016, 09:29 AM
I don't hear a lot of people complaining about their new Wilson CQBs...

You need to get out more. ;)

JAD
02-25-2016, 09:32 AM
You need to get out more. ;)

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160225/4142c3829fd0440035742f78115f3e88.jpg

StraitR
02-25-2016, 02:15 PM
Honestly, if you're happy with them, why not just stick with your Glocks? If it's because you just want something new to play with, is it really worth the money? If it's because it gives you that added layer of safety, would not purchasing gadgets resolve that issue? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious as to the root nature of your wanting to switch.

I don't see it as argumentative at all. Anyway, I'm not looking for a better mousetrap, just one with a hammer. I have two Gadgets on order, and look forward to having them, but they don't address the potential hazards of the draw. I certainly don't plan on shooting myself, nor have I ever got on the trigger early that I am aware of. Then again, I've never had to draw for my life or the life of my family, so it's unknown.

We've covered this topic extensively here on PF, but it's an important individual choice. Even though I've carried Glocks AIWB for over three years without concern, I've recently had a change of heart when it comes to wanting a hammered gun. I'm the the sole source of income in our family, and baby number two is less than five weeks away. I just doubled down on my life insurance in January too, so I guess I'm looking at things through a different lens with more on the line now. Anyway, I feel like it's the prudent choice at this point.

JAD - That's funny, and probably true all at the same time.

JCK - Keep us posted.

JHC
02-25-2016, 02:23 PM
The way everyone raves about the economical Sig 2022 9mm and what great triggers they have out of the box; makes me almost want one. I think there are threads about them around here.

spinmove_
02-25-2016, 02:46 PM
The way everyone raves about the economical Sig 2022 9mm and what great triggers they have out of the box; makes me almost want one. I think there are threads about them around here.

Pretty much this. If you're honestly looking for a hammered mouse trap and you were considering a P229 before, then I can't recommend at least taking a good hard look at a SP2022 enough. They're inexpensive, have a great track record, fantastic trigger out of the box, slimmer than the P229, and gives you your hammer. I can't see how you could lose on that one.

StraitR
02-25-2016, 03:20 PM
I meant to look at a 2022 yesterday, but forgot after going back and forth from HK's to SIGs, 229 to 226, this model to that so many times.

Sero Sed Serio
03-04-2016, 11:07 PM
UPDATE: Got my replacement gun in today. First thing I saw as I was taking it out of the case was that the hammer was sitting as it should at the safety intercept notch. Field strip and function test revealed no problems and the kind of quality you would expect from a gun straight from the HK factory. Going to give it a layer of grease and looking forward to putting it through its paces.

Other than the FFL (Tamara, I did make all the return arrangements and the vendor, Grabagun, handled the shipping costs), I'm completely satisfied with how this problem was handled. It doesn't change my view of HK--I still believe that they're a safe bet for a quality, reliable pistol that's ready to go out of the box, and that this was the exception, not the rule. Or maybe that's just me coming back like trailer park wife that I am...because I deserve for HK to hate me, and it's all my fault.

I would still really like to know what was broken/missing/wrong with the first gun...

Dagga Boy
03-05-2016, 10:55 PM
The mostly accurate quote is 'all pistols suck.'

Maybe you just need to set your sights higher. I don't hear a lot of people complaining about their new Wilson CQBs...

The high end customs tend to have lots of issues......lots.