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rob_s
02-22-2016, 03:05 PM
I'm interested in getting a shotgun for trap/skeet. This is not a hobby I intend to take up, but I get invited to go often enough, with people I'd like to spend time with, that I'd like to have my own gun/gear.

Speaking of, any other basic equipment I should have or would want to have?

Any other basics I need to know?

Exurbankevin
02-22-2016, 03:35 PM
Tagged for later reading.

HCM
02-22-2016, 03:39 PM
Be prepared for an abysmal level of unsafe gun handling / muzzle sweeping.

WDW
02-22-2016, 04:19 PM
You looking at an auto or O/U?

rob_s
02-22-2016, 04:20 PM
You looking at an auto or O/U?

I have no preference. Open to either, pending pros/cons.

WDW
02-22-2016, 04:22 PM
For O/U without breaking the bank, I like the Franchi Instinct L. It can be had for $1k or less new & is a great gun.

theJanitor
02-22-2016, 04:31 PM
Be prepared for an abysmal level of unsafe gun handling / muzzle sweeping.

Likely true. But it's great fun. And as long as everyone follows the kabuki rituals, accident/injuries are ulra-rare. Trap guns and skeet guns are different animals. if you intend for one gun to do both, a 1100 sporting might serve you well.

Other than that, all you'll need is a nice bag for your shells, and suitable earpro. and a hat.

Breaking clays is some of the most fun you can have at the range.

theJanitor
02-22-2016, 04:35 PM
I have no preference. Open to either, pending pros/cons.

Make sure you can change chokes. F/O front sights are great too. and if you go O/U, I like ones that don't engage the safety when you close the action. A good O/U makes you feel great, though.

Shotgun
02-22-2016, 04:59 PM
I'm interested in getting a shotgun for trap/skeet. This is not a hobby I intend to take up, but I get invited to go often enough, with people I'd like to spend time with, that I'd like to have my own gun/gear.

Speaking of, any other basic equipment I should have or would want to have?

Any other basics I need to know?

Among competitive shooters, a trap gun is not the same as a skeet gun. A good compromise for the occasional shooter is to get a semiautomatic sporting clays gun, and then use that for when you shoot any of the shotgun sports, including trap and skeet. I would look for a used Beretta 391. Beretta 391s were, and maybe still are, the most popular semi-auto in sporting clays circles for a long time. They are very reliable, and they came with stock shims so that slight alterations could be made to make the gun fit you better. Beretta's current version is this: http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xplor-unico/ Beretta also has a semi-auto called the A400 Xcel Multitarget. I have not seen or handled one of those as of yet, but that shotgun is able to be set up for trap, skeet and sporting clays.

Although not very popular, I have always liked the feel of Remington 1100s. Whatever you get, you need to make sure that you can change chokes. Any sporting clays shotgun you get should have interchangeable chokes.

You will want/need a shell pouch, shooting glasses and ear protection. A shooting bag is also desirable that will hold at least 6 boxes of shells and your eyes/ears (glasses, muffs). That way, when you are walking to the skeet or trap field, your shotgun will be in one hand and your bag in the other. You don't want to have to try to make multiple trips to your car for boxes of shells while shooting or try to juggle a number of loose boxes of shells when carrying your gear to the field.

Have fun!

Hambo
02-22-2016, 05:22 PM
You will need different choke tubes for trap and skeet, but for clays I think people swap choke tubes far more than they need to. If possible try some shotguns before you decide on O/U or auto.

LSP972
02-22-2016, 05:34 PM
Among competitive shooters, a trap gun is not the same as a skeet gun. A good compromise for the occasional shooter is to get a semiautomatic sporting clays gun, and then use that for when you shoot any of the shotgun sports, including trap and skeet. I would look for a used Beretta 391. Beretta 391s were, and maybe still are, the most popular semi-auto in sporting clays circles for a long time. They are very reliable, and they came with stock shims so that slight alterations could be made to make the gun fit you better.

Solid gold advice here^.

A properly set-up trap gun is worthless for anything else. This is due to the POI being adjusted to hit ten or so inches ABOVE the POA. Why? Because the best way to bust trap birds is to keep them in sight at all times, and to do this you must "float" the bird above the muzzle as it is climbing away from you. OTOH, you can do quite well at trap with a skeet or sporting clays gun. The dedicated trap guns with their pitched stocks just make it easier.

If you don't mind the squeeze (it ain't a cheap shotgun), that A400 would be the ticket. Berettas and Benellis pretty much rule the professional sporting clays circuit, because they will run and run and run with little to no maintenance.

BTW… if, while in a group of shooters, you see a shotgun with black "R" in an orange or red circle (a sticker, usually) on the pistol grip cap or elsewhere on the stock… be watchful of that guy. His gun has a release trigger. Those can get real exciting… real fast.

.

ubervic
02-22-2016, 05:42 PM
For an auto, I'd recommend a used Beretta 391 or Browning Gold. They are both fine, affordable, reliable and easy to operate.
For an Over/Under, I'd recommend a used Browning Citori with 28" or 30" barrels, which are most versatile for most shooters.

Autos point and balance differently than O/Us. I learned with O/Us and found the sight picture and handling of autos very odd thereafter.

Probably goes without saying, but the shotgunning discipline is almost completely opposite to shooting pistol, in that you direct a hard focus to the target and have only a peripheral sense of your shotgun's bead(s). And one points rather than aims in shotgunning, leading the target in most presentations.

I shot skeet & clays (but not much trap) for about 20 years before turning to pistol, and I love the zen and dynamics of the shotgun sports. Have fun!

Shotgun
02-22-2016, 05:46 PM
Berettas . . . pretty much rule the professional sporting clays circuit, because they will run and run and run with little to no maintenance.

BTW… if, while in a group of shooters, you see a shotgun with black "R" in an orange or red circle (a sticker, usually) on the pistol grip cap or elsewhere on the stock… be watchful of that guy. His gun has a release trigger. Those can get real exciting… real fast.

True and true. I clean my Beretta 390 (the predecessor to the 391) only twice each shooting season (March-October). One of my regular squad members shoots a release trigger. He can sometimes have some very interesting flinches when he forgets he is shooting a release trigger.

pablo
02-22-2016, 06:06 PM
I shoot trap, skeet, and sporting clays with an 870 and a Beretta 3901. I don't doubt that I would shoot better with better equipment, but I'm having fun and I'm a bigger handicap than the shotguns.

JSGlock34
02-22-2016, 06:25 PM
My first trap gun was a Remington 1100. Probably the best budget option out there. However, I spent too much time renting O/U shotguns (mostly Brownings and Berettas) and ended up purchasing a Beretta Silver Pigeon SP1 Sporting 30" last year. Though I got sucked in by the Beretta, Browning has some decent O/U options (like the BT99) that are more reasonably priced.


Make sure you can change chokes. F/O front sights are great too. and if you go O/U, I like ones that don't engage the safety when you close the action. A good O/U makes you feel great, though.

Agreed - it took me a little while to figure out the difference between the SP1 'Sporting' and the SP1 'Field' versions (the latter has the automatic safety when you close the action).

ubervic
02-22-2016, 06:28 PM
I disagree regarding the value/importance of changing chokes for a once-in-a-while user under most circumstances. If you have the option, I'd shoot nothing but SKEET 1 for skeet and either Improved Cylinder or Modified for Trap. The difference in pattern density for distances at which you will be shooting will be nil.

scott
02-22-2016, 06:29 PM
I strongly prefer O/U for clay games. I think the administrative handling is more convenient, and they are pretty much tailor made for clay shooting, so they tend to swing very well, etc. If your budget allows, get a used citori, superposed, or 686, depending on what's available, and what fits you. They all run about 800-1100. Most citoris and 686s will have screw in chokes. A used superposed won't, but depending on what you're playing and how competitive you are it might not matter. If it's mostly trap, mod/full is ideal. For skeet more open would be better, but I've shot some pretty good rounds of skeet, SC, and 5 stand with a fixed mod/mod. Usually my problem is that I suck, not that I have the wrong choke.

BJXDS
02-22-2016, 08:42 PM
Among competitive shooters, a trap gun is not the same as a skeet gun. A good compromise for the occasional shooter is to get a semiautomatic sporting clays gun, and then use that for when you shoot any of the shotgun sports, including trap and skeet. I would look for a used Beretta 391. Beretta 391s were, and maybe still are, the most popular semi-auto in sporting clays circles for a long time. They are very reliable, and they came with stock shims so that slight alterations could be made to make the gun fit you better. Beretta's current version is this: http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xplor-unico/ Beretta also has a semi-auto called the A400 Xcel Multitarget. I have not seen or handled one of those as of yet, but that shotgun is able to be set up for trap, skeet and sporting clays.

Although not very popular, I have always liked the feel of Remington 1100s. Whatever you get, you need to make sure that you can change chokes. Any sporting clays shotgun you get should have interchangeable chokes.

You will want/need a shell pouch, shooting glasses and ear protection. A shooting bag is also desirable that will hold at least 6 boxes of shells and your eyes/ears (glasses, muffs). That way, when you are walking to the skeet or trap field, your shotgun will be in one hand and your bag in the other. You don't want to have to try to make multiple trips to your car for boxes of shells while shooting or try to juggle a number of loose boxes of shells when carrying your gear to the field.

Have fun!

All of the above/
Your in for a lot a FUN. If your just getting started, look at the A300 Outlander, its the new 391, you ca get a basic synthetic stock for 600 bucks. If you go the auto route look for a shell catcher. If you stick with it you will want to upgrade, then you may have a dedicated gun for trap, skeet sporting clays.

The big difference is trap guns are normally set up so that your pattern is above your bead. A default field gun will require a cover your target hold. With that said, with a little practice you should be able to break 20+ with a field gun. It;s like anything else you will just have to shoot a bit before you figure what works for you, what you want and what your willing to pay.

LSP972
02-22-2016, 09:03 PM
Browning has some decent O/U options (like the BT99) that are more reasonably priced.





The BT-99 was/is ( I think they discontinued it) designed strictly for 16 yard singles, and multi-yard handicap; its a single-barrel gun.

.

JSGlock34
02-22-2016, 09:17 PM
The BT-99 was/is ( I think they discontinued it) designed strictly for 16 yard singles, and multi-yard handicap; its a single-barrel gun.

.

You are quite right - I stand corrected; I must have been thinking of the Citori or Cynergy, though both seem a bit more expensive than I remember.

mmc45414
02-22-2016, 09:35 PM
I started out with a very basic synthetic stock 1100 and shot it thousands of times before getting several other nice shotguns.

You didn't really mention budget, if it is low get any decent field automatic that has screw in chokes. I say stick to 12g for versatility.

Then you really just need a pouch.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

theJanitor
02-22-2016, 09:49 PM
I started with a 1100 sporting clay and moved to a Citori XT Trap. My scores were the same.....but I sure did appreciate the O/U more. It did well in both skeet and trap. My brother runs a Kreighoff and a Beretta. His scores are a bit higher with the Beretta. It just seems to fit him a little better and swings more smoothly.

The other advantage of O/U's is that you can see the condition status of everyone's gun. There's alot of muzzles pointing the wrong way, at feet, etc. Hard to tell who's gun is loaded with a semi

Cookie Monster
02-22-2016, 10:56 PM
I got into shooting trap last year. Still struggling with it but most days it is fun.

I just got this for a trap shooting bag:

http://www.tacticaltailor.com/rangemultipurposebaglarge.aspx

In a size medium, fits in one pocket my eyes, ears, and a snack, in middle compartment 4 boxes of shells, belt, and pouch, and the other pocket a trauma kit/GSW kit. Thinking about shotgun wounds I should add a some larger compression bandages (tangent sorry). You don't need much.

For shotguns, the gun fit is the most important. Then I agree with comments that O/U are generally better. I got a Browning Citori XT Trap and really like the gun. It is much more pleasant to shoot than the lighter Browning 725 fieldgun I was using last year. I see a wide range of guns at the club, mostly single barrel and O/U, maybe 10% semi's.

Prepare for muzzling and also some light drinking and handling firearms.

FNFAN
02-22-2016, 11:31 PM
I started with a 1100 sporting clay and moved to a Citori XT Trap.

Good advice! My Uncle was a Central Zone champ in the 70's and 80's for ATA. He did it with a 1100. I started shooting with a Winchester Model 12 Y-series trap and moved to a Citori. Was nothing more than a 'fair' trap shooter, especially compared to the kids who've grown up shooting since they were tall enough not to drag the muzzle on the ground. It's a great game and I still enjoy the looks on folks faces when I run 25 birds from the 16 yard line with an 870P.:cool:

rob_s
02-23-2016, 05:11 AM
Good info guys, thanks.

As usual, I didn't know what I didn't know, and was unclear on the various flavor of shotgun sports. I suspect that Sporting Clays is what I'd wind up shooting more often than anything else, and mistakenly assumed the guns were all the same. Sounds like a sporting clays gun is the spray to go. Anyone care to lay out the pros/cons of the O/U vs semi in that application? I'm presuming that the semi will have less felt recoil? Other benefits to the O/U than safety? Presumably less complication = more reliable?

Thoughts on the Stoeger?
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/condor-field-shotgun#specifications-section

peterb
02-23-2016, 06:36 AM
The conventional wisdom -- as I know it -- is that inexpensive O/Us don't hold up well to the kind of round count that regular clay shooters go through.

A gas semi of the same weight and fit will have less felt recoil.

rob_s
02-23-2016, 06:48 AM
I suspect I'm looking more for the S&W Sport than the KAC SR15.

"Regular" is unlikely to define my clays shooting. Lately I can't even find the time to do the kind of shooting I already like, so it's unlikely I'm going to find the time to break a cheap shotgun. Unless, that is, it can't even stand up to two-three outings a year.

On that note, I'm likely going to be buying one of these too, again for the possible 2-3 times/year I might get to shoot $-gun, and I'm wondering if this couldn't be pressed into service for clays. What would I be giving up, if I used this for clays or trap?
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/node/1561

ubervic
02-23-2016, 06:52 AM
They say the auto-loaders have less felt recoil, but in my experience a good-fitting o/u is not any worse. In sporting clays, you will never see more than two birds at any given station, so the two barrels of an O/U work great, plus you have the option of choking each barrel differently, which is an advantage for presentations combining an incomer and a longer shot, as you can optimize your shot cloud to each target's distance. I feel that O/Us swing better, as the balance point is further out front, stabilizing the swing motion for crossing targets. Oh, and, yes, it's easier to load, unload and show clear with an O/U----people can see from 50 yds away that the gun is safe.

All this talk about shotgunning is making me realize how much I miss it. lol

JSGlock34
02-23-2016, 07:19 AM
On that note, I'm likely going to be buying one of these too, again for the possible 2-3 times/year I might get to shoot $-gun, and I'm wondering if this couldn't be pressed into service for clays. What would I be giving up, if I used this for clays or trap?
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/node/1561

Relatively speaking, skeet guns have shorter barrels than trap guns...you'll probably want to split the difference. I went with a 30" barrel for versatility; that Stoeger looks quite a bit on the short side to me. Welcome thoughts from others, as I'm not very familiar with 3-gun shotgun distances.

spinmove_
02-23-2016, 08:08 AM
I personally run a Mossberg 500 All Purpose w/28" barrel and Imp. Mod choke for sporting clays. I snagged it for a steal so I could get into it on a regular basis with some friends of mine. I usually get a 76% hit rate with it, sometimes better. I figure if I decided to get REALLY serious with it, I could move to a different gun and re-purpose the 500 as a HD gun.

mmc45414
02-23-2016, 08:39 AM
Sounds like just a good semi 12g is gonna cover a lot of bases for you. Sounds like the budget is on the lower end, that you just want something you can grab and give it a try. You want to shoot Sporting Clays, and maybe 3gun, and at some point will want to try skeet and trap. Someday you might end up hunting birds.

Now the tricky part is there is so much out there and so much of it is good that it makes deciding tough. I would think just a basic 11-87 gives you a lot of options. Extra barrels are cheap, it would be cheap and easy to toggle between clays and 3gun. And if you want something else there are more people that would be in the market for a used one than some others.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

LSP972
02-23-2016, 08:55 AM
Relatively speaking, skeet guns have shorter barrels than trap guns...you'll probably want to split the difference. I went with a 30" barrel for versatility; that Stoeger looks quite a bit on the short side to me.

All extra barrel length gives you is a bit more weight and steadiness for your swing. My Beretta 682 Gold E has a 34" single barrel for singles/handicap, and 30" O/U barrels for doubles. But I do better on doubles with my Beretta 3901 youth gun; which has a 26.5" barrel. Its quicker-handling and easier to get on that second bird with. Both shotguns have stocks fitted to me, which, as was mentioned earlier, is the most important aspect of wing shooting with a shotgun.

.

rob_s
02-23-2016, 08:55 AM
Sounds like just a good semi 12g is gonna cover a lot of bases for you. Sounds like the budget is on the lower end, that you just want something you can grab and give it a try. You want to shoot Sporting Clays, and maybe 3gun, and at some point will want to try skeet and trap. Someday you might end up hunting birds.


That's about right. I want what I used to tell people didn't exist in the AR and handgun world, and then realized that the Colt 6720 with an Aimpoint and Glock 17 with a decent holster actually would serve people quite well for the variety of pursuits most duffers are likely to encounter, and suffice until they perhaps get themselves obsessed enough to need purpose-built gear.

if the Stoeger 3-gun shotgun would work for all of the shotgun pursuits, and if I had a good handle on exactly what I'd be sacrificing to do so, I'd like for that to be the answer. The primary downside I see to pressing the same gun into a variety of pursuits is the length of the barrel and the length of the mag tube being so variable.

At the same time, if I had to buy a $500 O/U to shoot various flying things 2-3 times a year, and just put off the $-gun shotgun until I actually plan to shoot a match, that wouldn't hurt my feelings either.

What I'm not going to do is spend $1k+ on a shotgun for something I *might* do 2-13 times a year. My days of stuffing the safe full of expensive toys I *may* use in the future are long since past. if shooting flying-things with a shotgun REQUIRES a $1k+ gun to do so then it's just one more game I'll abstain from.

that said, I do not like borrowing gear, and right now I get invited to go often enough that I turn it down based solely on the fact that I don't have the equipment. Were there a budget, or all-in-one, shotgun option in the safe I might get out more often.

LSP972
02-23-2016, 09:01 AM
. What would I be giving up, if I used this for clays or trap?
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/node/1561

Durability. There is a whole raft of "economy" O/U & gas guns, made in Turkey, out there. I used to see a lot of them at the trap and sporting clay fields. Some are still "running"; some gave it up in less than 500 shells.

O/Us are "cool", and easier to be safe with on a crowded field because you can break the action and keep the muzzle down comfortably. But unless that stock is precisely fitted to you, a gas gun is going to be more comfortable to shoot over the long run.

.

JV_
02-23-2016, 09:02 AM
Does the club not offer rental guns?

rob_s
02-23-2016, 09:05 AM
Does the club not offer rental guns?

No clue. There are several different clubs in the area, and the invites usually come with short notice. I'd prefer to just have something of my own. "rental" goes with "borrow" for me. I'm the guy that's damn close to buying my own bowling shoes just so I don't have to use the shoes at the lanes when we take the kids.

joshs
02-23-2016, 09:18 AM
Durability.

I haven't heard of or experienced any durability issues with the M3000. It is becoming a lot more popular in 3 gun because of its reliability and durability. It's pretty similar to a Benelli M1 with the recoil spring around the mag tube instead of in the stock. My example seems well built.

JV_
02-23-2016, 10:03 AM
"rental" goes with "borrow" for me. In general, I'd much rather rent than borrow. Plus, renting lets me try different ones to see what I prefer/like. Rentals at trap/skeet ranges seems pretty common around here.


I'm the guy that's damn close to buying my own bowling shoes just so I don't have to use the shoes at the lanes when we take the kids.No argument there.

spinmove_
02-23-2016, 10:38 AM
In general, I'd much rather rent than borrow. Plus, renting lets me try different ones to see what I prefer/like. Rentals at trap/skeet ranges seems pretty common around here.



I gotta agree with JV_ on this one. If I refused to rent any pistols and just started buying them up to try stuff out I would have been bankrupt a long time ago. Sure it's not the same as being new and perfect, but its also a heck of a lot cheaper and gives you a good idea of what worn in sample would feel like once you had one of your own and broke it in. My philosophy is rent/borrow/try anything and everything as often as possible and be ridiculously picky before actually fronting the coin for your own. If I had done that from the get go I would have saved a ton of money.

LSP972
02-23-2016, 11:43 AM
I haven't heard of or experienced any durability issues with the M3000. It is becoming a lot more popular in 3 gun because of its reliability and durability. It's pretty similar to a Benelli M1 with the recoil spring around the mag tube instead of in the stock. My example seems well built.

Okay. Perhaps they make different grades; "Best", "decent", "nimrod"...;)

.

rob_s
02-23-2016, 11:44 AM
I gotta agree with JV_ on this one. If I refused to rent any pistols and just started buying them up to try stuff out I would have been bankrupt a long time ago. Sure it's not the same as being new and perfect, but its also a heck of a lot cheaper and gives you a good idea of what worn in sample would feel like once you had one of your own and broke it in. My philosophy is rent/borrow/try anything and everything as often as possible and be ridiculously picky before actually fronting the coin for your own. If I had done that from the get go I would have saved a ton of money.

My experience has been that many people *think* they need the special snowflake item, but the truth is that there's a single make/model that satisfies 75% of the needs of virtually everyone buying that one thing. They chase around after "fit" and "feel" and other things that might matter to the 1% of high-end users but doesn't mean doodly-squat.

I just don't think I'm that special. My first new-bought semi-auto handgun was a Glock. I'd have been well-served had I spent the subsequent 20 years only buying Glocks. My first complete factory AR was a Colt. Four of them, in as many months, in fact. Still have all of them.

What I'd like is the Glock or Colt of the Sporting Clays world, but not if it's going to cost me $1k+. If that's the price of entry I just won't go. not to mention, I don't know if all of the places rent, don't feel like having to research that in the moment, etc. I'd much prefer to show up with my own gun, no matter how shitty it might be. Even if that gun is the equipvalent of the Olympic Arms, so long as I know that and know what I'm giving up.

To that end, I'm curious about sub-$1k shotguns, the more "sub" the better. I'd really love to hear about what I'm giving up by using a $450 Stoeger O/U or $600 semi-auto from the same company. If someone asks me that question about an AR I can give them a list of things, and let them make up their own mind.

vaspence
02-23-2016, 11:46 AM
If I were only going to shoot a half dozen times a year or so I agree with the guys who said to rent. My club rents really nice Browning and Beretta shotguns. I take 12-15 guys who never shoot or have never shot through the sporting clays course every summer. They all use the rentals and even the worst can usually break 40+ birds out of 100. If I had to own my own shotgun and wanted to shoot 3gun and clays with not much budget I'd buy an 870 with 2 barrels.

FWIW my clays gun is a Browning Citori Lightning choked LM/Mod with 26" barrels. My oldest son still prefers to use a Benelli M1 with a 26" barrel and a skeet or improved choke. I used to use the M1 in 3gun with a 21" barrel. It was my go to hunting/game gun for a few years.

ETA: Head over to shotgunworld.com it's a good source of reviews.

vaspence
02-23-2016, 12:02 PM
My vote for the Glock or Colt of the sporting clays world at under $1000 is a used Beretta 390 or 3901. I've owned a few of them and still regret selling the 390 youth 20 gauge. My club still has a 390 in the rental safe I use when I'm up and don't bring a shotgun. I cannot guess at how many 1000s of rounds have been through it.

ETA - Talking to a buddy about this just now and he pointed out the Beretta Outlander A300 is sort of the next gen of the 390/3901 series. New under $1k.

mmc45414
02-23-2016, 12:46 PM
My experience has been that many people *think* they need the special snowflake item, but the truth is that there's a single make/model that satisfies 75% of the needs of virtually everyone buying that one thing.

To that end, I'm curious about sub-$1k shotguns, the more "sub" the better. I'd really love to hear about what I'm giving up by using a $450 Stoeger O/U or $600 semi-auto from the same company. If someone asks me that question about an AR I can give them a list of things, and let them make up their own mind.

11-87 Sportsman looks like $555 and you would have Rule One covered. If you want a different stock they are all over. If you chop yours up a replacement is cheap. You can buy a second barrel for next to nothing. Spare chokes are $20 and you can pick one up when you are buying groceries. If it breaks spare parts are just a mouse click away. If you want to upgrade to something later you can sell it to a buddy for $100-$150 less than you spent.

Stoeger makes good stuff, but parts and accessories for Remingtons are everywhere. And cheap. I like Beretta, and have three, but a spare barrel would cost as much as the Remington.

If you like this you will want an O/U, and the Rem becomes a dedicated 3gun setup.

You sound just like me, you want to get started, but will know you want something nicer when you know.

One thing not mentioned about an O/U is that an auto is just like a DI AR, they shit where they eat. An O/U blows the dirt out the end of the gun. If you start doing it every week you will get tired of cleaning the gas system, that was when I started shopping O/Us.



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Hambo
02-23-2016, 12:54 PM
What I'd like is the Glock or Colt of the Sporting Clays world, but not if it's going to cost me $1k+.

Remington or a used Benelli.

ubervic
02-23-2016, 12:56 PM
That's about right. I want what I used to tell people didn't exist in the AR and handgun world, and then realized that the Colt 6720 with an Aimpoint and Glock 17 with a decent holster actually would serve people quite well for the variety of pursuits most duffers are likely to encounter, and suffice until they perhaps get themselves obsessed enough to need purpose-built gear.

if the Stoeger 3-gun shotgun would work for all of the shotgun pursuits, and if I had a good handle on exactly what I'd be sacrificing to do so, I'd like for that to be the answer. The primary downside I see to pressing the same gun into a variety of pursuits is the length of the barrel and the length of the mag tube being so variable.

At the same time, if I had to buy a $500 O/U to shoot various flying things 2-3 times a year, and just put off the $-gun shotgun until I actually plan to shoot a match, that wouldn't hurt my feelings either.

What I'm not going to do is spend $1k+ on a shotgun for something I *might* do 2-13 times a year. My days of stuffing the safe full of expensive toys I *may* use in the future are long since past. if shooting flying-things with a shotgun REQUIRES a $1k+ gun to do so then it's just one more game I'll abstain from.

that said, I do not like borrowing gear, and right now I get invited to go often enough that I turn it down based solely on the fact that I don't have the equipment. Were there a budget, or all-in-one, shotgun option in the safe I might get out more often.

If you're just looking at getting into shotgunning and do not plan to shoot more than a dozen times per year, I would either rent or, if you are opposed to renting, buy the Stoeger. Or decide to focus on a certain shotgun based on your intended pursuit (i.e., 3-gun, home defense, etc.).

I rented shotguns at my local range for my first couple of years and only decided to purchase when I started to become good at skeet and 5-stand---the old salts at the range suggested that I was pretty good but would not be great until I could shoot the same gun at every visit. Only then did I feel it was worth it to focus on selecting a shotgun based on length of pull, weight, type of bead(s), drop at comb and heel, options to change chokes, etc.----but you have to experience shooting different guns to experiment with these variations. These areas matter more for someone who shoots low-gun rather than calling for the bird with the gun already shouldered.

I really don't think any of these things matter much for someone who simply wants a shotgun to explore different shotgunning sports and/or home defense, whereas they do for someone who wants to be competitive.

rob_s
02-23-2016, 12:56 PM
ETA - Talking to a buddy about this just now and he pointed out the Beretta Outlander A300 is sort of the next gen of the 390/3901 series. New under $1k.

Thanks for that. Looks pretty affordable.
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Beretta-A300-Outlander-Shotgun&i=612363

rob_s
02-23-2016, 12:59 PM
[QUOTE=ubervic;411100 someone who wants to be competitive.[/QUOTE]

I think this is an important distinction. I couldn't care less, right now, about being competitive. I just want to show up and have fun with the guys, and I need a shotgun to do it. I'd prefer to have my own than to rent.

ubervic
02-23-2016, 01:15 PM
I think this is an important distinction. I couldn't care less, right now, about being competitive. I just want to show up and have fun with the guys, and I need a shotgun to do it. I'd prefer to have my own than to rent.

Cool.
I recommend considering a used shotgun. I shot skeet and clays for many years and owned 5 different shotguns yet never bought new.

spinmove_
02-23-2016, 01:19 PM
My experience has been that many people *think* they need the special snowflake item, but the truth is that there's a single make/model that satisfies 75% of the needs of virtually everyone buying that one thing. They chase around after "fit" and "feel" and other things that might matter to the 1% of high-end users but doesn't mean doodly-squat.

I just don't think I'm that special. My first new-bought semi-auto handgun was a Glock. I'd have been well-served had I spent the subsequent 20 years only buying Glocks. My first complete factory AR was a Colt. Four of them, in as many months, in fact. Still have all of them.

What I'd like is the Glock or Colt of the Sporting Clays world, but not if it's going to cost me $1k+. If that's the price of entry I just won't go. not to mention, I don't know if all of the places rent, don't feel like having to research that in the moment, etc. I'd much prefer to show up with my own gun, no matter how shitty it might be. Even if that gun is the equipvalent of the Olympic Arms, so long as I know that and know what I'm giving up.

To that end, I'm curious about sub-$1k shotguns, the more "sub" the better. I'd really love to hear about what I'm giving up by using a $450 Stoeger O/U or $600 semi-auto from the same company. If someone asks me that question about an AR I can give them a list of things, and let them make up their own mind.

Fair enough, and after screwing around with different "flavours of the month" for a while, I've essentially come to the same conclusion. That said, I run a Mossberg 500 All Purpose pump for sporting clays. The only thing I've added to it was a sling. I seem to do just fine with it.

That being said, that's what I would suggest going with personally. That or an 870. If you want a semi-auto, I've heard that these do a pretty good job https://www.slickguns.com/product/mossberg-930-12-jerry-miculek-10shot-599

Crews
02-23-2016, 05:51 PM
I shoot sporting clays often, and never use anything other than an IC choke. When I miss, it is not because the wrong choke was in there. You have to be very good for that to make too much of a difference.

An A300 Outlander or 3901 is well under a grand, will be fun to shoot, and will serve you well for a lifetime of use way harder than you are planning on.

scott
02-23-2016, 05:52 PM
With a bit more input from rob_s now, I recant my previous suggestion.
Get a used 1100 or 11-48/87, or beretta/benelli. Really any decent semi with at least a 26 inch barrel that'll cycle with light loads (that's my only question mark on the stoeger 3000; the inertia system can be picky). This one, for example http://shop.williamsgunsight.com/moreinfo.aspx?pid=034666&cs=/products.aspx&ai=M would do everything you want and has rem chokes, so you're set for different games.

A pump is a huge handicap and takes a lot of the fun out for me. Cheap over/unders are a false economy; they handle poorly, have bad fit and finish, and usually aren't durable. I made that mistake when I was getting started and replaced it after two months.
If you start to get into it, you'll eventually want a nice o/u. Look around, find a citori/686/superposed grade 1, don't spend more than 900, and be happy for the next decade.

rob_s
02-26-2016, 04:27 PM
Stopped by my local gander today. They had both the 390 synthetic and the 300 wood. 390 was $650, 300 was $800. The 300 actually later. Thoughts on which would be best? I did notice the barrel on the 390 said it was made by Stoeger, ha ha.

vaspence
02-26-2016, 08:26 PM
Was the receiver American made?

mmc45414
02-27-2016, 08:46 AM
Stopped by my local gander today. They had both the 390 synthetic and the 300 wood. 390 was $650, 300 was $800. The 300 actually later. Thoughts on which would be best? I did notice the barrel on the 390 said it was made by Stoeger, ha ha.

I am not personally hip to all of the nuances of those Beretta models, but the option for an extended magazine for 3-gun could be a factor. I have two, an A400 in 20g and the Xtrema2 in 12g (3-1/2") and the Xtrema2 accepted the Nordic Components extension while the A400 clearly would not. There are enough variations for it to be pretty confusing. Don't know if this is a big deal to you or not, just putting it on your radar.

Also, it would stretch your budget, but I have been thrilled with my Xtrema2. I have never used it for anything that required a 3-1/2" shell but when I got it I thought I would have been doing some waterfowl hunting that never materialized. At the same time without any adjustment it will feed 7/8oz reloads without batting an eye. It has (without the KO) shims in the stock allowing LOP adjustment with just a screwdriver. And I have a mag extension if I ever actually go try 3-gun. Have broken a buttload of skeet targets with it though. Killed a handful of birds with it also.

LSP972
02-28-2016, 01:35 PM
Some of the more popular Beretta gas guns aren't much good for 3-gun, because they won't take mag extensions due to the lay-out of the gas system.

.

Crews
02-28-2016, 02:03 PM
The Remington 1100 and similar are fantastic, fun guns to shoot. My only gripe is that maintenance aspect is notably more difficult than a spaghetti gun.

Josh Runkle
02-28-2016, 02:17 PM
If you are only going to shoot occasionally, I would not buy a shotgun specific to trap/skeet. I have literally shot an 18.5" home defense 870 and gone 23/25 by just simply replacing the choke to a skeet choke. And, I don't shoot shotgun that often...like 2-3 times a year.

To put it into perspective: with a pistol, if you were only semi-serious about USPSA, but wanted to shoot a couple of matches a year, I would just tell you to bring what you have and have fun. Sure, something specifically made for the game might give you a hair of an edge to be competitive, but that's only for people who are shooting 5 days a week. Same with shotgun. Don't buy into the hype that you need something specific just to compete a few times. You can do well enough with what you probably already have lying around the house...provided you have the option to switch out chokes.

rob_s
02-28-2016, 07:37 PM
I only own one shotgun and it doesn't have chokes.

ubervic
02-28-2016, 08:44 PM
Changing chokes (or choking down) makes a difference for fast, outgoing targets that don't present anything more than edge, in which case Modified or Full serve well, as you want the shot cloud to be dense enough to break the target at that distance. Otherwise, for most targets a Skeet choke works pretty well.

StraitR
02-28-2016, 09:05 PM
Lot's of good suggestions already. I will add, you won't make any friends shooting trap with a semi-auto. The guy next to you will not appreciate the kiss marks from your shells on his Perazzi in the same way we appreciate the look of a well used pistol.

I've successfully used ranger bands behind the bolt handle to short cycle a Browning D-80 and Benelli M2 Field when shooting trap to prevent shells from ejecting.

Cookie Monster
02-28-2016, 09:48 PM
If you are only going to shoot occasionally, I would not buy a shotgun specific to trap/skeet. I have literally shot an 18.5" home defense 870 and gone 23/25 by just simply replacing the choke to a skeet choke. And, I don't shoot shotgun that often...like 2-3 times a year.

To put it into perspective: with a pistol, if you were only semi-serious about USPSA, but wanted to shoot a couple of matches a year, I would just tell you to bring what you have and have fun. Sure, something specifically made for the game might give you a hair of an edge to be competitive, but that's only for people who are shooting 5 days a week. Same with shotgun. Don't buy into the hype that you need something specific just to compete a few times. You can do well enough with what you probably already have lying around the house...provided you have the option to switch out chokes.

I'd disagree. As a mid-teens trap shooter with a nice O/U who shoots every week maybe I am just jealous.

While I don't think the OP needs a trap gun, a heavy shotgun with a long barrel would make the experience more pleasant and more enjoyable and just help blend with the group. Also it would be something that could be used for clay games, waterfowl or upland bird hunting. Also something that the OP can get fitted and dialed in for wing shooting. My HD shotgun is set-up for killing people, I want to run the clay gun different.

StraitR
02-28-2016, 11:44 PM
For anyone looking to learn skeet, the below YT playlist coupled with decent hand-eye coordination and above average gun skills will have you busting 20+ your first time out.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL441DA01D2404EE9C

He also has a trap playlist...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB6870DF00AEF0454

Sorry for the derail. Hopefully a few will find it useful.

LSP972
02-29-2016, 07:14 AM
Lot's of good suggestions already. I will add, you won't make any friends shooting trap with a semi-auto. The guy next to you will not appreciate the kiss marks from your shells on his Perazzi in the same way we appreciate the look of a well used pistol.



True… assuming that Perazzi hasn't broken something in the trigger group and is actually working for a while.

And there are several varieties of shell catcher, which snap into the ejection port, available. I began shooting trap with a Beretta 3901 and one of these; works fine, but makes the gun somewhat of a PITA to load.

.

rob_s
02-29-2016, 10:04 AM
While I don't think the OP needs a trap gun, a heavy shotgun with a long barrel would make the experience more pleasant and more enjoyable and just help blend with the group. Also it would be something that could be used for clay games, waterfowl or upland bird hunting. Also something that the OP can get fitted and dialed in for wing shooting. My HD shotgun is set-up for killing people, I want to run the clay gun different.

This is something I'm very conscious of. There's a balance to be had relative to enjoyment, cost, special-purpose, quality, etc. For example, I've seen guys go buy a $500 1911 and a Uncle Mike's holster and go try to shoot IDPA or USPSA and be miserable. Often they blame the game not the gear, but in either case they aren't achieving the primary goal which is to have fun. They *can* go shoot with sub-optimal gear, but they could have also had a Glock and a kydex holster for the same money and had a lot greater enjoyment.

I think I'm going to wind up going back to Gander and picking up that 390, but I'm going to check out Dick's today or tomorrow as well first. While at Gander I saw some horribly over-priced handguns and it has me wondering if the shotguns are massively overpriced as well.

Cookie Monster
02-29-2016, 10:17 PM
This is something I'm very conscious of. There's a balance to be had relative to enjoyment, cost, special-purpose, quality, etc. For example, I've seen guys go buy a $500 1911 and a Uncle Mike's holster and go try to shoot IDPA or USPSA and be miserable. Often they blame the game not the gear, but in either case they aren't achieving the primary goal which is to have fun. They *can* go shoot with sub-optimal gear, but they could have also had a Glock and a kydex holster for the same money and had a lot greater enjoyment.

I think I'm going to wind up going back to Gander and picking up that 390, but I'm going to check out Dick's today or tomorrow as well first. While at Gander I saw some horribly over-priced handguns and it has me wondering if the shotguns are massively overpriced as well.

I don't buy guns often and don't know values. I would wonder though if there are any shotgun horders at the local skeet/trap club that would have something that fits your needs.

HCM
02-29-2016, 10:43 PM
While at Gander I saw some horribly over-priced handguns and it has me wondering if the shotguns are massively overpriced as well.

Everything I've seen at Gander mountain locations in TX and FL (guns, ammo etc) has been horribly over priced. I don't even bother going in there anymore.

LGS, order online/ slickguns / grab a gun all offer shotguns. If I have to go big box, Cabelas or Academy Sports.

spinmove_
03-01-2016, 08:33 AM
Everything I've seen at Gander mountain locations in TX and FL (guns, ammo etc) has been horribly over priced. I don't even bother going in there anymore.

LGS, order online/ slickguns / grab a gun all offer shotguns. If I have to go big box, Cabelas or Academy Sports.

Agreed. Unless there is a killer deal somewhere, I tend to stay out of the big box stores completely. I'd rather go to a LGS where there are better prices, better service, and the derp is usually toned down to a lesser degree behind the counter.

rob_s
03-01-2016, 08:47 AM
I live in SE Florida, you are simply not going to get good customer service whether you're in a big box or a LGS. All you get is pimply idiots in the big box replaced with tacti-turds at the LGS. I'm also unwilling to invest the legwork to buy guns online anymore, unless there's some smoking deal. My time is worth more than the money saved. Turns out the Gander shotgun prices were in line with Bud's and other online pricing I checked out, so I don't feel too bad about the price issue on the shotguns.

Stopped in at Dick's and got to see the Stoeger O/U, M3000 (non-$gun version), an 11-87, and a synthetic Beretta A300. All, again, priced inline with online pricing. Almost popped on the A300 but then decided I'd rather spend the money on my wood shop right now. At least I have a good sense of what's available, where to go to get it, and what I can get at the price I want to pay. So now if I get invited to go shoot on Wednesday I can just stop in and buy a gun before Saturday.

I appreciate all the help and guidance. I'll probably end up with one of the Berettas at some point.

Cookie Monster
03-01-2016, 09:14 AM
The woodshop is not a bad call.

UNK
03-01-2016, 02:12 PM
You won't be miserable with an 1100. In my personal opinion and experience an 1100 will take you all the way until you have the need need for the high dollar custom fit guns. An added bonus that I haven't seen mentioned is recoil. I saw the Browning BT-99 mentioned earlier. They kick like a mule. You can run hundreds of rounds through an 1100 in one day and not be bothered in the least.
The recoil is atrocious in some guns. That's why you see recoil reducers in the stock and release triggers to compensate for flinch. Beware a flinch is a hard habit to break.


This is something I'm very conscious of. There's a balance to be had relative to enjoyment, cost, special-purpose, quality, etc. For example, I've seen guys go buy a $500 1911 and a Uncle Mike's holster and go try to shoot IDPA or USPSA and be miserable. Often they blame the game not the gear, but in either case they aren't achieving the primary goal which is to have fun. They *can* go shoot with sub-optimal gear, but they could have also had a Glock and a kydex holster for the same money and had a lot greater enjoyment.

I think I'm going to wind up going back to Gander and picking up that 390, but I'm going to check out Dick's today or tomorrow as well first. While at Gander I saw some horribly over-priced handguns and it has me wondering if the shotguns are massively overpriced as well.

Chris17404
03-03-2016, 10:06 AM
Rob,

I would suggest you find a nice Beretta 3901 with a 28" barrel. It's every bit as reliable as the newer 391 series, but with a gas system that's much easier to clean. That's what I did, and enjoy it very much. Good luck.

Chris

LSP972
03-08-2016, 01:40 PM
Rob,

I would suggest you find a nice Beretta 3901 with a 28" barrel. It's every bit as reliable as the newer 391 series, but with a gas system that's much easier to clean. That's what I did, and enjoy it very much. Good luck.

Chris

I'm pretty sure the 3901 will take 390 barrels too. I'd like to find a 30" full choke 390 barrel (or a newer one tapped for tubes) for my 3901 that didn't require my first-born in payment.

.

rob_s
12-26-2017, 05:44 AM
So almost two years later, I was gifted a trip to a charity clays tournament. Anything changed in the shotgun world? From re-reading the old thread it sounds like a used 3901 or 390 was the top suggestion? Thoughts on a new gunL I may not have time to wait to track down a used one.

Shotgun
12-26-2017, 10:13 AM
Beretta A400 Xcel Sporting Black Edition if buying new. The same shotgun also comes with a blue receiver if you prefer that look.

LOKNLOD
12-26-2017, 10:21 AM
So almost two years later, I was gifted a trip to a charity clays tournament. Anything changed in the shotgun world? From re-reading the old thread it sounds like a used 3901 or 390 was the top suggestion? Thoughts on a new gunL I may not have time to wait to track down a used one.

The A300 you almost bought a couple posts up is still solid for new in the $650 range, and the Stoeger 3000 for right at $500.

I’d snag whichever floats your boat. I just shoot my 1301 Comp in sporting clays, and it does fine. Unless you need to impress with your hardware due to social obligations...

rob_s
12-26-2017, 10:33 AM
Beretta A400 Xcel Sporting Black Edition if buying new. The same shotgun also comes with a blue receiver if you prefer that look.

I’m not sure I follow how a $1600-2400 shotgun is a beginner gun?
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Beretta-A-Xcel-Sporting-Semiautomatic-Shotgun/1375218.uts

Cool Breeze
12-26-2017, 10:49 AM
I use a Remington V3. The walnut version is on Bids for approx 750. Remington offer rebates and I am sure you can find cheaper other places. You can also go synthetic.

It is low maintenance. Has 3 nice chokes (all steel rated). Great trigger. Incredibly soft shooting. No mainspring in the buttock. Etc. Check out some of the reviews online. It's incredible value.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

rob_s
12-26-2017, 11:51 AM
I found the a300 on Bud’s for ~$600 so I’m looking for a local transfer dealer. Was hoping to avoid that but...

Real quick though, and to refresh my memory, what am I giving up if I just go with the $420 11-87?
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/remington-model-11-87-sportsman-synthetic-semi-automatic-12-gauge-28-barrel-51-rounds?a=1784073

mmc45414
12-26-2017, 12:54 PM
Real quick though, and to refresh my memory, what am I giving up if I just go with the $420 11-87?
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/remington-model-11-87-sportsman-synthetic-semi-automatic-12-gauge-28-barrel-51-rounds?a=1784073
Didn't you also once ask about two barrels? If so, that is really Remington territory. The Beretta is probably a better gun, but it might be a Glock/M&P situation, and at your stage of the game you would be happy with either. Unless you go out to buy a second barrel, then you will want the 11-87, and chokes are easy and cheap. I love my two Berettas but shot the dickens out of a 1100 before I bought either.

If you start getting into clay games you might end up transitioning to a O/U anyway.

LOKNLOD
12-26-2017, 02:29 PM
I found the a300 on Bud’s for ~$600 so I’m looking for a local transfer dealer. Was hoping to avoid that but...

Real quick though, and to refresh my memory, what am I giving up if I just go with the $420 11-87?
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/remington-model-11-87-sportsman-synthetic-semi-automatic-12-gauge-28-barrel-51-rounds?a=1784073

If you just need it to shoot the occasional clays charity event... not a whole lot, provided you don't get a lemon.

richiecotite
12-27-2017, 07:08 PM
I shot clays for the first time in April. I’ve been back 3 times since (wobble and sporting clays).
I’ve been shooting my Wal Mart mossberg 500. I’m not good, but I’m close to my shooting buddy that has a background in clays to not embarrass myself.



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Shotgun
01-03-2018, 06:55 PM
I’m not sure I follow how a $1600-2400 shotgun is a beginner gun?
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Beretta-A-Xcel-Sporting-Semiautomatic-Shotgun/1375218.uts

Without looking back through this thread, I seem to recall us discussing 390s. The Xcel is just the current Beretta offering for a target shotgun. I see a fair number of new clay target shooters shooting the Xcel, if they bought new. If starting with a used shotgun, most I see are starting with a used Beretta of some kind. It seems that Beretta is the overwhelming favorite for an autoloader in the clay target world. So, yes, beginners are buying the Xcel, but I agree with you that it is a little pricey, especially just to dip a toe in the water.

I also seem to recall that I previously recommended an 1100. Which brings us to your post below.


I found the a300 on Bud’s for ~$600 so I’m looking for a local transfer dealer. Was hoping to avoid that but...

Real quick though, and to refresh my memory, what am I giving up if I just go with the $420 11-87?
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/remington-model-11-87-sportsman-synthetic-semi-automatic-12-gauge-28-barrel-51-rounds?a=1784073

I think the 11-87 would be fine. It would serve you well on a clays course as well as in the field. Some 11-87s come with a fixed choke barrel, and you would want to avoid those. The one you linked seems to have the ability to change chokes, but it appears that only a modified choke is provided. You would need to buy a skeet or IC choke for many sporting clay presentations.

The main thing is to go shoot and have fun whatever shotgun you use for the purpose. Heck, I sometimes still see older guys dragging out their pump shotguns for a little fun. It's amazing how quick some of those older gents can cycle a pump for a second shot.

rob_s
01-04-2018, 09:42 AM
Looks like if I walk into a Bass Pro, the a300 is only $50 more than the 11-87. Probably worth the premium?

mmc45414
01-04-2018, 09:57 AM
Looks like if I walk into a Bass Pro, the a300 is only $50 more than the 11-87. Probably worth the premium?I would say yes, as long as you have narrowed your focus and do not have plans for secondary configurations and multiple barrels.

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Crews
01-04-2018, 09:59 AM
Looks like if I walk into a Bass Pro, the a300 is only $50 more than the 11-87. Probably worth the premium?

Any day of the week, even if all you do is consider the maintenance aspect. There is no doubt the Remington is a pretty decent gun, but no way it’s as easy to maintain as a Beretta. They’re very simple to work on, and there’s just not that much that breaks. Mine is a 390, but not a lot of big differences from one to the next in how they function. I’ve been shooting it for 10+ years. Over a hundred cases of light target loads shooting sporting clays and dove hunting, and I used to shoot 4 cases of 3” steel shot per season goose hunting in Oklahoma. The only part I’ve ever had to replace was the recoil spring in the buffer tube located in the stock. It was several inches shorter than the minimum spec, and cost me under $20. Of course, the gun was still functioning fairly well, but wasn’t 100% on 7/8oz target loads when it got really dirty.

Get the Beretta, and don’t clean it nearly as much as you think you need to. Make sure to avoid putting CLP on anything forward of the receiver face. If it ends up on the magazine tube or any of the gas system it’ll get hot and gum up, which will make the cycling sluggish.


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Shotgun
01-04-2018, 10:36 AM
Looks like if I walk into a Bass Pro, the a300 is only $50 more than the 11-87. Probably worth the premium?

To me, yes. The a300 has a shim system to adjust drop (maybe a little cast as well), and the length of pull can also be adjusted significantly. Going duck hunting and need to shorten length of pull due to heavy clothing? Done. You can get this shotgun to fit about as well as possible outside a custom fitting. Also, I think it may come with three chokes, but ask Bass Pro about that. You would have to buy another choke or two for the 11-87 you previously linked. The extra chokes would offset that price difference. The 11-87 you linked had a price of $420 as I recall. If you are finding an a300 in the $470 price range, it would be a steal. I thought a300s were usually several hundred dollars more expensive than that. There should be a Beretta Youtube video for the a300 for a product overview.

rob_s
01-04-2018, 11:17 AM
No Bass Pro pricing would make the a300 $670 and the 11-87 $620. Give or take.

BJXDS
01-04-2018, 11:26 AM
No Bass Pro pricing would make the a300 $670 and the 11-87 $620. Give or take.

I would go with the a300. I use one for trap skeet hunting IMHO one of the best values and very reliable

Shotgun
01-04-2018, 03:21 PM
No Bass Pro pricing would make the a300 $670 and the 11-87 $620. Give or take.

At least to me, that's an easy choice. Get the a300. $670 is less expensive than I thought it would be. For some reason, I had about $800+ in my head for a new a300. I was right; Beretta has a product video for that model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTIGeoZ82FY

Let us know what you bought and what you think of whatever you bought once you have had a chance to go shoot. You might end up enjoying clay target shooting as much as pistol or rifle shooting. All are certainly addictive.

mmc45414
01-04-2018, 05:11 PM
You might end up enjoying clay target shooting as much as pistol or rifle shooting. All are certainly addictive.
I find skeet the most relaxing, you just show up, no targets or stands to setup, you hang out with your buddies, going from station to station as a squad, and when you are done you put your gun in the case and go. Unless, as is common at many shotgun clubs, ypu can have a beer (after you are done shooting).

Some clubs, typically the less expensive ones, expect you to pick up your empties, but if you get into it you will end up with an O/U.


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rob_s
01-13-2018, 04:13 PM
Bass Pro. A30 synthetic $730 out the door. 3 chokes.

What else do I need? What shells? Decent case?

mmc45414
01-13-2018, 05:14 PM
What else do I need? What shells? Decent case?
I would just buy the bulk pack shells at Walmart. Either #8 or #7.5, know that most clay ranges allow nothing larger than 7.5 so the shot falls where they need it to. You might encounter good ol boy trap ranges where they do games from beyond the 27yd line and people use cheater reloads, but coloring in between the lines means #7.5, #8 or #9 (but you will not find cheap bulk shells in #9).

You need a pouch for shells. It could be as simple as this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Allen-Double-Compartment-Shell-Bag/161099724
Don't get married to one, it is kinda like holsters, you will probably change you mind. Then keep your old one in the truck for when somebody forgets theirs or a newbie shows up without.

I would stick to a soft case for the assembled gun. Breakdown cases are better with O/U guns.

ETA, you already have glasses, but good ones are important at skeet, lots of pieces from the incoming targets at station one and seven rain down on you frequently. Unless the high house has fresh paint one look above your head will reinforce this :)

ranger
01-13-2018, 05:20 PM
Bass Pro. A30 synthetic $730 out the door. 3 chokes.

What else do I need? What shells? Decent case?

I assume this is a Beretta A300 Synthetic 12 gauge? Great choice. Here is my advice from a former active clays shooter. It comes with Full, Modified, and Improved Cylinder. I suggest you will use the IC choke the most. You can use IC on the skeet field, many sporting clays shots, and if you are a "quick" shooter even on trap. You may want to use the Modified choke on Sporting Clays "longer shots" and on Trap. I suspect you will not use your Full choke much. All that said, you may want to go to a patterning board and shoot your shotgun and shell combination to see how your specific shotgun, shell, choke combination shoots. You may want to add a "more open" choke like Cylinder or Skeet in future.

Shells. I used to reload my 12 gauge shells but as the price of components (especially lead shot) increased - I switched to the bargain hunting loads. I bought my shells by the case (multiple cases at a time) from Walmart, Dicks, etc. when they had their annual Dove/Quail load promotions. I broke a lot of clay pigeons in Sporting Clays with cheap promo 1 oz #8 or #7.5 shells - often Winchester, Remington, or Federal. I would not buy the "Trap", "Sporting Clays", or "Handicap" loads as you do not need the accompanying recoil or cost. In theory, you want to shoot #9 shot at Skeet or close range Sporting Clays but #8 will do just fine. You probably want to use #7.5 for trap or long range Sporting Clays. Expensive shells in general do not break clays any better than cheap shells.

Some people like to change chokes and shot sizes and get the right choke/shot combo for a specific targets. Others want one choke and one shot size all the time. You can decide which of those camps you fit in. To make things easy, IC choke and #7.5 1 oz promo load is easy and will break 90% of targets.

You need a way to carry shells around the course. Vest or belt with shell bag. I am a vest guy - carry shells and choke tubes. Shell bag on a belt is great.

Shotgun case - do you want to break down the shotgun into two or just want a sleeve like case and not break down? Your choice.

You need a good set of shooting glasses - you may want to consider at least two lens colors - a "light" and "dark lens". I use Oakley M frames with 3 lenses.

Ear protection. In ear or muffs - most muffs will interfere with stock fit.

Buy a bunch of promo #8 and #7.5s and start breaking clays. Enjoy knowing that your $730 shotgun breaks clays just as well as the $$$$$Kreighoffs, Perazzis, etc.

rob_s
01-14-2018, 09:45 AM
So it sounds like some low brass #8 and the IC choke will be the best “set it and forget it” combo?

They had some cased 12 ga at Bass Pro that said “AA” on it but we wanted to get out of dodge.

I’ll probably order the Ammo online as Bass Pro is 45 minutes away and the local Walmart... well... Walmart in SE FL... so any links to where to buy?

ranger
01-14-2018, 10:55 AM
So it sounds like some low brass #8 and the IC choke will be the best “set it and forget it” combo?

They had some cased 12 ga at Bass Pro that said “AA” on it but we wanted to get out of dodge.

I’ll probably order the Ammo online as Bass Pro is 45 minutes away and the local Walmart... well... Walmart in SE FL... so any links to where to buy?

#8 and IC = good

Here is a link to an example "target" 12 gauge #8 shell to purchase online - I think this one has free shipping (shipping shotgun shells is an issue with weight) - https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-top-gun-12-gauge-ammo-2-3-4-1-1-8oz-8-shot-target-tg12-8-p-78613.aspx

rob_s
01-14-2018, 11:44 AM
#8 and IC = good

Here is a link to an example "target" 12 gauge #8 shell to purchase online - I think this one has free shipping (shipping shotgun shells is an issue with weight) - https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-top-gun-12-gauge-ammo-2-3-4-1-1-8oz-8-shot-target-tg12-8-p-78613.aspx

Yep! 250 shells = free shipping!

Am I correct in assuming this would get me through two "sessions" of 100?

Turns out the event I'm going to in two weeks has guns, shells and gear as part of the fee, so I'm debating whether I'll even take my new stuff or just use theirs to evaluate. I'm not paying the fee (work event) so even if there was a cost savings to use my own gear I don't really care. I think that maybe using theirs might give me some "free" insight into what else I want to buy without having to buy something I don't like.

I still feel ok about buying the gun. Prices went up everywhere after the new year so I'm good with locking it in, and I now have a shotgun that I believe I could use for any sort of flying-target use that I may get invited to. After the work event I'll buy some shells and some sort of pouch. I have another, personal, event in February where I'll plan on using all of my own stuff.

ranger
01-14-2018, 12:10 PM
Case of 250 Shotgun shells should be fine for two 100 target sporting clays events. You need more than 100 shells per "round" as you may have some target malfunctions plus you may shoot a few extra shells if they throw "singles". I would still get a shell bag to carry your shells around the course.

Semiauto shotgun tip: I shot a semi for years for Sporting Clays (Rem 1100, Browning Gold, Beretta 391). The vast majority of the time I saw a competitor have an issue with a semiauto shotgun in competition - the shotgun was "dry" and needed lubrication. I "fixed" many semiauto shotguns for other competitors with some oil and a few paper towels. Other issues were poor quality reloads. Please note that your brand new semiauto shotgun may jam a few times while "new" and may need a box or two of shells through it to be 100%.

Manbearspider
01-14-2018, 08:35 PM
I'm way late to this game, but a sporting gun is the best all around for a casual shooter, and I am a big fan of a good semiauto since it soaks up some of the kick. Makes a difference if you're doing a lot of rounds. I got a good deal on a lightly used A400 xcel, and that's already more gun than I can shoot. Kinda wish I had an option one slot below it on the market, but I couldn't find anything that fit me as well.

mmc45414
01-15-2018, 11:27 AM
Yep! 250 shells = free shipping!

Am I correct in assuming this would get me through two "sessions" of 100?Yes, but be aware that shotgunning seems to be a high volume endeavor, always take plenty. Part of this is because it is fun. Also, some of the ranges are remotely located (no indoor ranges) so by the time you get there one round of sporting is not that much. But most places have some kind of shells available.

Also, if you are doing some kind of charity event, most of the time they have a little fun side shoot of some type, and that burns up a lotta ammo.

And in the case of shotgun sports, IMO Rule One is to have fun, follow this one rule and you will probably have a buttload of fun :)

Rule Two is probably to not over choke, hitting is fun, and marginal hits are fun, they look the same on the score sheet. Check this out:
23011
Qty459 of #8, put in an open chock and let them eat! :)

Jim Watson
01-15-2018, 01:15 PM
I shot ATA Trap for a number of years. Singles with a Remington 1100 TA Full choke, mostly. I kept an O/U for doubles because I found the clatter of the automatic a distraction.

I loaded mostly 1 1/8 oz #8, seems like I did better than with 7 1/2. I was working on 1 ounce loads in later days. I even loaded some 7/8 oz 12 ga for the little bit of Skeet I shot.

Shot is so expensive now, the casual shooter had just as well shop Walmart. Avoid the really cheap 7/8 oz stuff.

mmc45414
01-15-2018, 05:55 PM
I even loaded some 7/8 oz 12 ga for the little bit of Skeet I shot.
Shot is so expensive now, the casual shooter had just as well shop Walmart.
We reload, but mainly in order to load 3/4oz skeet loads in both 12g and 20g, in 20g for reduced recoil (that darn gun is light...) and in 12g to make them cheaper. I think we are still "saving" money, but it would be darn hard to cost justify the tools and the time.

ranger
01-15-2018, 05:58 PM
I just reload 28 gauge now. Could not justify reload for 12/20 when shot got so expensive.

mmc45414
01-15-2018, 06:17 PM
I just reload 28 gauge now.That would be like printing money! :)
When I bought my 20g I was thinking about making the 28g plunge, but I thought 20 would be more versatile and then I came into a big leaf bag so full of 20g AA & STS hulls it is hard to lift, and I go a 20.

ranger
01-15-2018, 06:26 PM
When I was an active Sporting Clays shooter - I enjoyed shooting the side matches in 20 gauge, 28 gauge, and 410. Still have the Remington 1100 Sporting Clays model 20 gauge and 28 gauge. Used my shooting buddies Rem 1100 410.

rob_s
01-17-2018, 07:05 AM
Question, should I be able to lock the bolt to the rear on my new a300? If so, how?

I’ve tried pushing the carrier release button as, outside of the safety, it’s the only thing I’m seeing. I did RTFM and didn’t see anything in there.

peterb
01-17-2018, 07:13 AM
I just saw this in the manual under "load check"

Pull back the breech bolt to lock it into the open position and engage the safety before handing the shotgun to another person.

mmc45414
01-17-2018, 09:07 PM
Question, should I be able to lock the bolt to the rear on my new a300? If so, how?Either snap it on an empty chamber or:
23056

rob_s
01-18-2018, 04:58 AM
ah, I get it now. "snap" it back. I evidently wasn't being forceful enough with it. and the hammer has to be down.

are extended bolt handles for these guns a thing?are they common in clays?

mmc45414
01-18-2018, 08:46 AM
ah, I get it now. "snap" it back. I evidently wasn't being forceful enough with it. and the hammer has to be down.I meant snap it so the hammer was down. On a new gun there is probably some resistance when you get to the back of the travel.
Pushing the little nubbin in the picture will cause it to lock back with the hammer cocked. The only way I know is that I was at a SC event and saw some guy do it and went over and asked him "How didja do that?!?!"


are extended bolt handles for these guns a thing?I think so.


are they common in clays?No. You are gonna be walking around with the thing locked open, then just loading the two shells for the stage, and then it will be locked back. And word up, there are rules (and it is common practice) to ONLY load the two shells at a time. And only load the gun when you are completely on station. Some of the rules are a little fuddy, but you can go anywhere and go on course with a buncha guys you have never met, everybody does the same thing, and not be worried about people's gun handling because it is pretty tightly controlled.

rob_s
01-18-2018, 09:22 AM
yeah, the hammer-down resistance was causing me to "short stroke" the bolt to some degree. Also being a new gun I wasn't wanting to break anything. I monkeyed with the little button briefly but it didn't seem to "catch" if the hammer was back and was gone if the hammer was down.

Thanks for the help.

Shotgun
01-18-2018, 03:21 PM
are extended bolt handles for these guns a thing?are they common in clays?

Some like extended bolt handles. But, like MMC said, you are walking around with the bolt open. You are rarely cycling the bolt by hand unless you have had a failure to fire or a malfunction of some sort. You only load two shells at a time, and the bolt locks back on its own after firing the second shell. When you are finished shooting, the bolt should be locked back on its own. You hand is not getting fatigued by having to cycle the bolt using the factory bolt handle. I don't have one on my 390, and I never saw a need to have one.

Some people get extended bolt handles in various colors just trying to dress up their gun a bit. http://www.briley.com/c-425-shotgun-parts.aspx Briley sells extended bolt handles, bolt release levers and magazine weights. You can color coordinate should you choose. Colorization can also help set your gun apart from others in a rack. People sometimes pick up the wrong gun from a rack at a sporting clays station. When they get to the next station, they discover they picked up the wrong gun and then come back looking for their own. Having a red (whatever your color of choice is) bolt handle, bolt release, and magazine weight may help prevent someone from picking up your shotgun mistaking it for their own.

I see after market bolt releases on clays courses much more than extended bolt handles. Many do find the after market bolt release works better than the original part.

mmc45414
01-18-2018, 06:53 PM
You are rarely cycling the bolt by hand unless you have had a failure to fire or a malfunction of some sort.Including malfunctions of the thrower and you have to clear and make safe before somebody goes downrange to fix it. Knowing where the little button on the lifter is will come into play, nicer than snapping it to drop the hammer. Everybody will expect locked open bolts before going forward.


Colorization can also help set your gun apart from others in a rack. People sometimes pick up the wrong gun from a rack at a sporting clays station.And ya did buy a Beretta...

rob_s
01-27-2018, 02:02 PM
Shot Sporting Clays for the first time today. They had guns and all that so I didn’t use mine, but it turns out the rental guns were a300s! So I got to shoot “my” gun in a way. Very happy with my purchase, assuming my sample runs. I consider it a good sign that a high volume place chooses the same gun.

I hit 28 out of 48 so I was happy just to do greater than 50. Had a great time, and really looking forward to my second even next month.

mmc45414
01-27-2018, 02:23 PM
Shot Sporting Clays for the first time today. They had guns and all that so I didn’t use mine, but it turns out the rental guns were a300s! So I got to shoot “my” gun in a way. Very happy with my purchase, assuming my sample runs. I consider it a good sign that a high volume place chooses the same gun.

I hit 28 out of 48 so I was happy just to do greater than 50. Had a great time, and really looking forward to my second even next month.Good shooting!
Did you happen to see what chokes they had in the guns (the number of little notches)?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

rob_s
01-27-2018, 09:13 PM
Good shooting!
Did you happen to see what chokes they had in the guns (the number of little notches)?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

I did not. I didn’t even think to look.

mmc45414
01-28-2018, 07:55 AM
I did not. I didn’t even think to look.Just thinking they were probably pretty open.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

e_stern
01-31-2018, 01:56 PM
Not to toot my own horn here... but check this out... http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-outlander-sporting/

rob_s
02-01-2018, 01:52 PM
#8 and IC = good

Here is a link to an example "target" 12 gauge #8 shell to purchase online - I think this one has free shipping (shipping shotgun shells is an issue with weight) - https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-top-gun-12-gauge-ammo-2-3-4-1-1-8oz-8-shot-target-tg12-8-p-78613.aspx

So I screwed around and this is out of stock now. Anyone have an option B?

Shotgun
02-01-2018, 03:30 PM
So I screwed around and this is out of stock now. Anyone have an option B?

https://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/m/1/161456_ts.jpg

Also, look for 1 oz dove and quail loads in either 7.5 or 8 at your local Bass Pro/Cabelas/Academy/Gander Mountain type stores. These shells are sometimes sold as loss leaders, especially before dove season, just to try to get people into the store. You can often find really good deals. Most dove and quail loads work just fine for clays as long as you pay attention to shot size and shot charge.

Edit --- I'm glad I clicked on the link to see if it would take you to the correct place. It did not. Go to sportsmansguide.com and surf around the 12 gauge 7.5 and 8 one ounce loads. The Remington Target loads I just tried to link for you are on sale for 5.99/box.

You can also try cheaperthandirt.com and midwayusa.com.

If, and hopefully when, you get into the sport, there should be bulk buying opportunities at even lower prices through local dealers. Conversations with the high volume shooters at your local clubs should lead you to those opportunities.

rob_s
02-01-2018, 03:59 PM
Thanks!

I think this is the page you're on?

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/remington-gun-club-target-loads?g=29165

The only 1 oz load there is this one and it's out of stock.
12 Gauge Shells 2 3/4 1oz #8 Buyer's Club $6.26 Non-Member$6.59 NOTIFY ME

mmc45414
02-01-2018, 05:29 PM
So I screwed around and this is out of stock now. Anyone have an option B?
No specific link, but it is as simple as:
1-1/8oz
#8 (best) or #7.5 (fine)

Just find the cheapest deal you are happy with. If you are not going to reload the hulls (or maybe even not even pick them up) it really doesn't matter what you buy. Luckygunner has a bunch. Not free shipping but it might be worth checking. And I know you dont wanna, but Walmart typically has what you need. You can slide in at Automotive, sporting goods is typically close and you can pay either there or at the auptmotive counter.

mmc45414
02-01-2018, 05:38 PM
The only 1 oz load there is this one and it's out of stock.
I wouldn't get caught up on the 1oz load, just they are sometimes a deal because there is less shot, and shot is the most expensive component.

This is one of those deals where it is hard to screw up, just get the cheapest thing you can find.

Now that I said that, about the only thing you can screw up is getting shot that is too large. No #5 or #6, because most clay ranges limit you to #7.5 as the largest. This is so the shot does not carry farther, and falls where it is supposed to, as in still on club property. The club I am in locally (predominatly pistol/rifle) used to have a single skeet field and when the wind was strong to the west shot was landing in the neighbor's pond, so they had to quit using it.

ETA: Didn't mean to infer that you shouldn't get 1oz loads. Shotgun gives good advice, sometimes they are a good deal at the big box camo stores.

Shotgun
02-07-2018, 07:32 AM
Has the new shotgun been shot yet? I don’t think I could have waited a day before pulling the trigger on a new firearm.

rob_s
02-12-2018, 10:06 AM
Has the new shotgun been shot yet? I don’t think I could have waited a day before pulling the trigger on a new firearm.

No it hasn't.

logistics of getting out and shooting for me suck. it's 1+ hours each way to the nearest range besides the usual collection of decrepit indoor facilities. First shoot is this weekend, which is also the event that precipitated the purchase. I figure if something goes wrong, someone else will have a gun I can use at an event like this. I did pick up some basic gear...

MidwayUSA Shell Pouch with Belt Black
(https://www.midwayusa.com/product/207085/midwayusa-shell-pouch-with-belt-black?utm_medium=email&utm_source=service&utm_campaign=order-confirmation&utm_content=product-description-link)MidwayUSA Heavy Duty Shotgun Case
(https://www.midwayusa.com/product/162977/midwayusa-heavy-duty-shotgun-case?utm_medium=email&utm_source=service&utm_campaign=order-confirmation&utm_content=product-description-link)Federal Top Gun Ammunition 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 1oz #8 Shot
(https://www.midwayusa.com/product/952406/federal-top-gun-ammunition-12-gauge-2-3-4-1oz-8-shot?utm_medium=email&utm_source=service&utm_campaign=order-confirmation&utm_content=product-description-link)

mmc45414
02-13-2018, 08:12 AM
That pouch is a bargain, tempted to buy one as spare.
Those shells are exactly what ya needed.

Shotgun
02-13-2018, 09:44 AM
No it hasn't.

logistics of getting out and shooting for me suck. it's 1+ hours each way to the nearest range besides the usual collection of decrepit indoor facilities. First shoot is this weekend, which is also the event that precipitated the purchase. I figure if something goes wrong, someone else will have a gun I can use at an event like this. I did pick up some basic gear...

MidwayUSA Shell Pouch with Belt Black
(https://www.midwayusa.com/product/207085/midwayusa-shell-pouch-with-belt-black?utm_medium=email&utm_source=service&utm_campaign=order-confirmation&utm_content=product-description-link)MidwayUSA Heavy Duty Shotgun Case
(https://www.midwayusa.com/product/162977/midwayusa-heavy-duty-shotgun-case?utm_medium=email&utm_source=service&utm_campaign=order-confirmation&utm_content=product-description-link)Federal Top Gun Ammunition 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 1oz #8 Shot
(https://www.midwayusa.com/product/952406/federal-top-gun-ammunition-12-gauge-2-3-4-1oz-8-shot?utm_medium=email&utm_source=service&utm_campaign=order-confirmation&utm_content=product-description-link)

You are all set. You made good choices. Now, go and dust some clays! I hope you have fun.


That pouch is a bargain,
Those shells are exactly what ya needed.

True that.

rob_s
02-19-2018, 09:02 AM
Shot my event. Had an absolute blast. The wives had all gotten together and got us a night in the cabins on-site and then the entry fee for the match. The four shooters in the rental golf cart and the wives following in my street-legal and lifted cart. My wife attached a gopro to the front of our cart and ran a time laps, video below.

Gun ran great, but I did pinch the crap out of my finger pulling the bolt back manually a couple of times so I think I'm going to get an extended bolt handle (http://www.briley.com/p-56894-briley-bolt-operating-handle-12-gauge-fits-303-390-391-3901-a300.aspx) and probably also an extended bolt release (http://www.briley.com/showProduct.aspx?SEName=ez-bolt-release-lever-kit-for-beretta&ProductID=52313) for no real good reason.

No ammo issues at all.

The pouch I could take or leave. If I was having to walk the field I could maybe see it but given the cart, the clays basket on the front of the cart, and the fact that it's 6-8 shots per stage I don't know that I'd bother. I also didn't like getting in and out of the cart with the pouch.

This is the facility
https://okcorralgunclub.com/

We got there early Friday and did a ride around on our cart, and I drove through the action bays they were setting up for USPSA this weekend, and really started to miss those matches and was starting to get excited about getting back out for some of those, but now that I've shot Sporting Clays I don't know if I'd pick USPSA over clays given a limited amount of range time.

Oh, and I shot a 73 out of 100. I'm pretty happy with that. My team's average was 68 and the winning team shot 88. The overall winner was a teenage boy and he shot 95!


https://youtu.be/FLnaEcL1FO8

Shotgun
02-19-2018, 03:07 PM
Shot my event. Had an absolute blast.

And that's why we shoot! You will get used to a pouch over time. You will end up carrying a couple of extra chokes in that pouch for convenience if you end up shooting with some regularity. Glad you had a good time.

mmc45414
02-20-2018, 08:57 AM
And that's why we shoot! You will get used to a pouch over time.
Yeah, the pouch was probably weird because the cart was right there, and maybe it will not always be there.

And if you can find someplace to shoot skeet, it is weeknight fun that takes a fraction of the time of SC, and you will need to pouch.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

rob_s
06-24-2018, 01:35 PM
Got a chance to shoot a round of Clays again yesterday. Or at least 12 out of 14 stations before the lightning shut us down. Only hit 48 which was a disappointment. Need some lessons for sure.

Skipped the pouch and ran the shells out of a cargo pocket. Much happier with that.

In hardware news...
The bead fell off! Not that I was really using it, but not having it became distracting after having gotten used to it. Guess I’ll get a new one and a spare...

Thumb kept getting pinched by the lifter when loading. Not sure if there is anything to be done about that or not.

ranger
06-24-2018, 05:49 PM
The thumb pinch should get better with practice. Loading 2 at a time across a 100 round course of clays adds up to a lot of manipulations and opportunities for a pinch. Try a an aftermarket fiber optic front sight - I know you are not supposed to "aim" a shotgun but I did for going away shots and some of the specialty bird presentations. I am a "vest" guy for carry shells and choke tunes - even in South Georgia and Florida.

Duelist
06-24-2018, 07:56 PM
Shot two rounds of Skeet yesterday. I suck at it, but it was a good time.

NuJudge
07-01-2018, 07:13 PM
A fitter and a little coaching will make a huge difference in your Skeet shooting. I went from breaking 13-15, to breaking 21 or 22, sometimes 25. Assuming you are right handed and eyed, you point the shotgun with your left hand, and it is good to have your left hand forward on the hand guard with your index finger pointing downrange. Assuming a boxing-type stance, with your weight on the balls of your feet, will help prevent you stopping your swing. Visualize where you are going to break the bird, before you call for it. Visualize the lead you will need before you call for the bird: one foot of lead is occluded by about a finger's width on your hand held up with an outstretched arm. My coach had me shoot last in a group, holding out my left hand on an outstretched arm holding up the necessary number of fingers. If you choose to use a constant lead on the bird, you need to focus on the bird, but look ahead of it by the lead you will need, and your shotgun will follow. You have 7 stations on the arc, then one more out under where the birds cross. I find the lead to be about 9 inches at station 1, and for the outgoing bird the right body motion is just bowing at the waist. For station 2 the lead is about a 18 inches, but the angular velocity of the outgoing bird is so high I don't have time to acquire that lead, so just swing through and be pulling the trigger as I do, and about 75% of the time it works. For the outgoing bird, it is really easy to take your head off the stock as you swing outbound, so concentrate on "keeping the wood on the wood". For station 3 the lead is three feet, which is a heck of a lot. For station 4 the lead is 4 feet, which is ridiculous. The rest of the arc, you just reduce the lead in similar fashion. For station 8, just blot out the bird with your barrel(s) and be pulling the trigger as you do.

The typical shotgun sold in the US has a "pull" (distance between the trigger and butt) of about 14 and a half inches. That usually works for a male, 5ft-8in, 180 pounds. I am 6ft-4in and 235 pounds, and I broke out laughing when the first coach I worked with told me I needed a 16 inch pull. Hey, if it's stupid and it works, maybe it's not so stupid.

Remember that the shot cloud is not a disc, but is a tear drop, with a long tail. If you have too much lead, but your elevation is right, the bird will probably break as the tail will get it. If you don't know how much lead to use, guess on the long side.

Good luck.

Duelist
07-01-2018, 07:48 PM
A fitter and a little coaching will make a huge difference in your Skeet shooting. I went from breaking 13-15, to breaking 21 or 22, sometimes 25. Assuming you are right handed and eyed, you point the shotgun with your left hand, and it is good to have your left hand forward on the hand guard with your index finger pointing downrange. Assuming a boxing-type stance, with your weight on the balls of your feet, will help prevent you stopping your swing. Visualize where you are going to break the bird, before you call for it. Visualize the lead you will need before you call for the bird: one foot of lead is occluded by about a finger's width on your hand held up with an outstretched arm. My coach had me shoot last in a group, holding out my left hand on an outstretched arm holding up the necessary number of fingers. If you choose to use a constant lead on the bird, you need to focus on the bird, but look ahead of it by the lead you will need, and your shotgun will follow. You have 7 stations on the arc, then one more out under where the birds cross. I find the lead to be about 9 inches at station 1, and for the outgoing bird the right body motion is just bowing at the waist. For station 2 the lead is about a 18 inches, but the angular velocity of the outgoing bird is so high I don't have time to acquire that lead, so just swing through and be pulling the trigger as I do, and about 75% of the time it works. For the outgoing bird, it is really easy to take your head off the stock as you swing outbound, so concentrate on "keeping the wood on the wood". For station 3 the lead is three feet, which is a heck of a lot. For station 4 the lead is 4 feet, which is ridiculous. The rest of the arc, you just reduce the lead in similar fashion. For station 8, just blot out the bird with your barrel(s) and be pulling the trigger as you do.

The typical shotgun sold in the US has a "pull" (distance between the trigger and butt) of about 14 and a half inches. That usually works for a male, 5ft-8in, 180 pounds. I am 6ft-4in and 235 pounds, and I broke out laughing when the first coach I worked with told me I needed a 16 inch pull. Hey, if it's stupid and it works, maybe it's not so stupid.

Remember that the shot cloud is not a disc, but is a tear drop, with a long tail. If you have too much lead, but your elevation is right, the bird will probably break as the tail will get it. If you don't know how much lead to use, guess on the long side.

Good luck.

That consolidates a lot of what I’ve been coached by the guys at the range.

ranger
07-01-2018, 08:00 PM
A fitter and a little coaching will make a huge difference in your Skeet shooting. I went from breaking 13-15, to breaking 21 or 22, sometimes 25. Assuming you are right handed and eyed, you point the shotgun with your left hand, and it is good to have your left hand forward on the hand guard with your index finger pointing downrange. Assuming a boxing-type stance, with your weight on the balls of your feet, will help prevent you stopping your swing. Visualize where you are going to break the bird, before you call for it. Visualize the lead you will need before you call for the bird: one foot of lead is occluded by about a finger's width on your hand held up with an outstretched arm. My coach had me shoot last in a group, holding out my left hand on an outstretched arm holding up the necessary number of fingers. If you choose to use a constant lead on the bird, you need to focus on the bird, but look ahead of it by the lead you will need, and your shotgun will follow. You have 7 stations on the arc, then one more out under where the birds cross. I find the lead to be about 9 inches at station 1, and for the outgoing bird the right body motion is just bowing at the waist. For station 2 the lead is about a 18 inches, but the angular velocity of the outgoing bird is so high I don't have time to acquire that lead, so just swing through and be pulling the trigger as I do, and about 75% of the time it works. For the outgoing bird, it is really easy to take your head off the stock as you swing outbound, so concentrate on "keeping the wood on the wood". For station 3 the lead is three feet, which is a heck of a lot. For station 4 the lead is 4 feet, which is ridiculous. The rest of the arc, you just reduce the lead in similar fashion. For station 8, just blot out the bird with your barrel(s) and be pulling the trigger as you do.

The typical shotgun sold in the US has a "pull" (distance between the trigger and butt) of about 14 and a half inches. That usually works for a male, 5ft-8in, 180 pounds. I am 6ft-4in and 235 pounds, and I broke out laughing when the first coach I worked with told me I needed a 16 inch pull. Hey, if it's stupid and it works, maybe it's not so stupid.

Remember that the shot cloud is not a disc, but is a tear drop, with a long tail. If you have too much lead, but your elevation is right, the bird will probably break as the tail will get it. If you don't know how much lead to use, guess on the long side.

Good luck.

"Miss in Front" is the best clay shooting advice I ever got.

rob_s
07-02-2018, 09:39 AM
Glad this got bumped as I'd forgotten to replace my bead.

Any reason to do anything other than the standard bead as a "sight"? Also, are all beads the same? If I just go with the standard bead can I just use any bead or do I have to buy a Beretta bead?

ranger
07-02-2018, 12:18 PM
There are different threads so must match bead thread to your model

ubervic
07-02-2018, 12:27 PM
One should never be looking at the bead during swinging & firing a shotgun. All focus is applied to the target and only the target----this dynamic is virtually opposite of sight picture for firing a pistol, where all focus should be on front sight.

So if you believe that your shotgun fits you well, as verified initially from mounting the fun and glancing at bead alignment, and if you mount consistently, then you don't need really the bead.

NuJudge
07-02-2018, 07:19 PM
One more thing that has been helping me is shooting less shot. I handload 12 gauge, and usually shoot 7/8 oz. now, sometimes closer to 3/4 oz. Shooting the full one-and-an eighth oz. fatigues me a lot more than 7/8 oz. With the full charge of shot in a 12 gauge, I shoot a lot worse after two rounds of Skeet. With the reduced load, no problem to shoot 3 and even 4 rounds of Skeet. Another alternative is to just shoot 20 gauge.

mmc45414
07-03-2018, 05:49 AM
Any reason to do anything other than the standard bead as a "sight"? Also, are all beads the same? If I just go with the standard bead can I just use any bead or do I have to buy a Beretta bead?
Might be simple and cheap to just buy something like this:
http://www.hivizsights.com/product/flame/
or:
http://www.hivizsights.com/product/sparkiii/
because they come with a bunch of screws, including one that is supposed to (according to their chart) fit your gun.

APS-PF
07-03-2018, 12:59 PM
Glad this got bumped as I'd forgotten to replace my bead.

Any reason to do anything other than the standard bead as a "sight"? Also, are all beads the same? If I just go with the standard bead can I just use any bead or do I have to buy a Beretta bead?

Unless you are using it for turkey hunting where fiber optic might help, I would recommend the standard bead or the white bead that came on my A400 Xcel. A red/green fiber optic may draw your eye to it too easily which is a distraction for clays.

rob_s
12-18-2018, 10:02 AM
Wife and I went out for a private lesson this past weekend. Both really enjoyed the hell out of it. I shot my A390 again and she shot some kind of loaner Browning/Citori over/under 20ga.

She wasn't happy with the fit and feel of the gun. I told her they pretty much all feel the same but the instructor started talking up these women-specific guns like Syren that do funky shit to the stock to make them more woman friendly. I looked them up and they start at $2k so we're not going that, plus I told wife "women have been shooting 'men's guns' for 200 years, but now women suddenly need a custom fit $3k shotgun?"

Which brings me to...

any reasonable suggestions for a shotgun for her? The overall length and weight of my gun seems a bit much for her. One benefit of the O/U is the lack of a receiver, making the gun shorter. She had some arm reach issues getting her support hand out there, and even with the youth model gun she was shooting she wasn't happy with her hand placement.

One thing I want to do is get her over to Bass Pro and have her hold a few different guns so we can sort out whether there's some actual problem with the Citori she was shooting or if the issues were issues she'd have with any gun.

ubervic
12-18-2018, 10:22 AM
Shotguns can definitely mount/feel/point differently, even with very minor differences in length of pull, drop at comb & heel, cast-on or cast-off, balance point, etc.

I know: it sounds like a bunch of BS. But after you've been shooting regularly with the same shotgun and then you try a similar shotgun but with a 1/4" difference in drop or LOP dimension, I guarantee that you will notice the difference. Good & experienced shooters can overcome such differences easily with a different hold; less experienced shooters will likely experience frustration.

For example, female shooters will often benefit from less drop at the comb than will your average male, as women's faces are somewhat smaller than men's. Meaning, too much drop will cause the female shooter's sight line over the receiver to be partially obstructed during the mount & swing.

I'm about to sell a Browning Cynergy CX with 30" barrels, like-new condition. 12g but shoots soft. I like everything about it except that it has about 1/8" too little drop at the comb for me. This causes/forces me to have to 'cheek-down' on the comb more than I'd like to achieve the proper mount. Might be just the ticket for someone with a smaller face/build than I have. :)

rob_s
12-18-2018, 10:24 AM
yeah I noticed some of the women's guns seem to have a bit of a monte carlo to get the stock closer to their cheek.

mmc45414
12-18-2018, 03:54 PM
yeah I noticed some of the women's guns seem to have a bit of a monte carlo to get the stock closer to their cheek.
Stuff like this could be an option:
https://kickeezproducts.com/recoil-pads/cheek-eez/

rob_s
12-22-2018, 08:08 PM
seems like this may be a pretty reasonable option

Mossberg SA-20 Bantam Semi Auto Shotgun 20 Gauge 24" Barrel 5 Rounds 3" Chamber Synthetic Stock Blued Finish 75770 (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/mossberg-sa-20-bantam-semi-auto-shotgun-20-gauge-24-barrel-5-rounds-3-chamber-synthetic-stock-blued-finish-75770-884110757708.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&refType=&from=fn&ecList=7&ecCategory=201712)

Wendell
12-22-2018, 10:20 PM
Randy Wakeman (http://randywakeman.com/) has posted quite a bit about the SA-20 and the SA-28. If you're thinking of buying an SA-20, you should have a look at some of his stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZTDWWPqqj8

rob_s
12-24-2018, 09:36 AM
We went out again yesterday. This time we rented a Beretta A400 Xplor for yer (pretty sure it was this model (https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/90384/Firearms/Shotguns/Beretta/Beretta+J40AA26+A400+Xplor+Action+20ga+26+Standard )).

Overall she seemed to like it better, but she only got through about half the stations before she was complaining of shoulder pain. I don't believe she's quite "getting" the concept of the "pocket" (I now I didn't when I first started shooting a .308 bolt action) so I think that may be contributing. It was also cold, for us, so she had on layers that I also think were contributing to the pain (wadded up material behind the recoil pad, that kind of thing).

I did shoot the rental gun for a few birds as well, and I have to say that I didn't find the recoil of the 20ga that much noticeably less than my A300 12ga. My gun supposedly weighs 7.1 lbs to the A400's 6.7 lbs, so maybe that's part of it. But that also has me questioning the logic of the SA-20's 5.6 lbs!

mmc45414
12-24-2018, 02:22 PM
We went out again yesterday. This time we rented a Beretta A400 Xplor for yer (pretty sure it was this model (https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/90384/Firearms/Shotguns/Beretta/Beretta+J40AA26+A400+Xplor+Action+20ga+26+Standard )).

Overall she seemed to like it better, but she only got through about half the stations before she was complaining of shoulder pain. I don't believe she's quite "getting" the concept of the "pocket" (I now I didn't when I first started shooting a .308 bolt action) so I think that may be contributing. It was also cold, for us, so she had on layers that I also think were contributing to the pain (wadded up material behind the recoil pad, that kind of thing).

I did shoot the rental gun for a few birds as well, and I have to say that I didn't find the recoil of the 20ga that much noticeably less than my A300 12ga. My gun supposedly weighs 7.1 lbs to the A400's 6.7 lbs, so maybe that's part of it. But that also has me questioning the logic of the SA-20's 5.6 lbs!
I have an A400 (had?, my BIL has it and it might be sold or traded...) like linked, and I do not think it recoils lightly. Actually, most 20g guns, IMO, are light enough to offset the fact that they are throwing less shot. There are also products like this:
https://graco-corp.com/product/a400-cw/
That add some weight that helps swing and reduces recoil. There are also options that get drilled into the stock. Some shooters drill a hole and pour some melted lead in the hole. Once I experimented with mixing some shot into some Bondo.

Also, not sure if my BIL is totally committed to the A400 deal. I have shortened the stock about 3/8" (didn't grind the pad yet) and have one of the Graco units. If you might be interested I could take his temperature when I see him in a few days. PM me if you would want more detail.

ETA: Has she tried your gun with 1oz loads?

ranger
12-24-2018, 10:19 PM
Tough to balance lower recoil vs lighter weight. If you reload shotgun shells you can load a low recoil 7/8 or 1 oz 12 gauge. My wife enjoyed my Rem 1100 28 gauge Sporting Clays but shells get expensive in volume.

ubervic
12-25-2018, 08:03 AM
If you shoot 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads at under 1,200 feet per second with a gas operated auto and still suffer painful recoil, the gun isn’t fitting, or being mounted, properly. If you square-away all of these variables including fit and mount yet still suffer recoil, sorry, but shotgunning is probably not going to be enjoyable. Period.

Wendell
12-25-2018, 11:12 AM
...(it) has me questioning the logic of the SA-20's 5.6 lbs!

Recoil is only one consideration of many. Fit is important, weight is important, and balance is important; some smaller people, or some people with comparatively-less upper-body strength, face real difficulty trying to manage longer and heavier shotguns.

willie
12-25-2018, 12:11 PM
Remington 1100 shotguns take the cake for soft recoil. They abound in plentiful number. They are easy to keep running. Used ones are fairly cheap.

rob_s
12-26-2018, 09:25 AM
Recoil is only one consideration of many. Fit is important, weight is important, and balance is important; some smaller people, or some people with comparatively-less upper-body strength, face real difficulty trying to manage longer and heavier shotguns.

Of course.

Especially with smaller shooters, gun selection has always been a struggle between lower weight for easier handling which in turn means more felt recoil, gun fit, and new shooters not really *getting* the technique (which I personally think is a large part of the problem here).

What I'm really most interested in is the most ubiquitous off-the-shelf shotgun used by women in sporting clays, preferably (well) under $1k.

Nobody is nearly as special as they think they are, and women have been shooting "men's guns" for hundreds of years successfully before Syren and others showed up hawking "you're so special" versions that cost $3k.

I really want her to try my A300 but at 6'-1" I have pretty much all the shims on the stock and we're going to have to deal with the LOP issue.

ranger
12-26-2018, 09:59 AM
The "answer" for new shooters or shooters of smaller stature was often a Remington 1100 20 gauge shooting lower recoil shells - note that the "hunting" 20 gauge shells can be relatively stout. Rem 1100 is considered "old tech" but they have broken many clays. Buy a youth stock or have the existing tock modified to fit better.

When I was a very active Sporting Clays shooter, I shot Rem 1100s in the sub-gauge side matches - 20, 28, 410. I had my "sub gauge" Rem 1100 28 gauge stock modified so that I could easily add or delete shims to get the length right moving between myself and my wife. 28 gauge is a magical shell with low recoil but smacks clays with surprising authority.

You can always sell a clean Rem 1100 28 gauge if she does not like or hopefully after she gain confidence and moves to another platform.

rob_s
12-26-2018, 10:20 AM
The "answer" for new shooters or shooters of smaller stature was often a Remington 1100 20 gauge shooting lower recoil shells - note that the "hunting" 20 gauge shells can be relatively stout. Rem 1100 is considered "old tech" but they have broken many clays. Buy a youth stock or have the existing tock modified to fit better.

When I was a very active Sporting Clays shooter, I shot Rem 1100s in the sub-gauge side matches - 20, 28, 410. I had my "sub gauge" Rem 1100 28 gauge stock modified so that I could easily add or delete shims to get the length right moving between myself and my wife. 28 gauge is a magical shell with low recoil but smacks clays with surprising authority.

You can always sell a clean Rem 1100 28 gauge if she does not like or hopefully after she gain confidence and moves to another platform.

That's good info, thanks.

it does appear that (a) Remington isn't selling 100 youth models anymore, in any gauge and (b) they are $1300+ new anyway. So that leaves the used market, which is pretty sparse in my area. Plus makes it a little harder to get her the chance to hold one.

We did discuss it a bit and she feels like the weight of the gun is less of an issue now that she's more comfortable with the gun and understands how to use the balance of the gun and body parts like hips and armpits to help support it while not shooting. She's actually very fit, but this is a new set of muscles that you don't really use for much else.

ranger
12-26-2018, 10:27 AM
When I was shooting Sporting Clays in the Southeast, there were often vendors at large events that modified stocks on site at a "workshop" trailer and also vendors (gun dealers) selling new and used shotguns. Great opportunity to "see" what's available. All my Rem 1100s are used - 28 gauges are rare and 410s are unicorns. 12s and 20s should be plentiful. Secret to 1100s is keep the shell tube exterior clean - I lost count of "broken" 1100s I fixed with a few paper towels and some WD40. Those large shoots used to be a good place to pick up target load shells too.

rob_s
12-26-2018, 10:31 AM
Thoughts on 11-87 instead?
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/57577

When I was more involved in shooting I'd have been more open to getting far more involved in this process, but for us we really just want her to have a gun in the safe that fits her and she's not scared of that we can take out on a "date" from time to time. Most organized events don't fit our schedule. About the best I'm going to hope for is getting her to Bass Pro (which is an hour away, unfortunately) and have her try some guns they happen to have on hand.

Right now, this concept is competing against golf (which is better for my career, allows drinking on the field, is easier to access from our house and has more potential for doing it on vacation). I'm not saying they'll ultimately be mutually exclusive, but I've really enjoyed our two clays outtings so far and I want to try and keep that momentum.

ranger
12-26-2018, 10:54 AM
I believe that Remington has moved the remaining 1100s to more expensive target or collector grades. The 11-87 will be fine - it has an updated gas system. I would recommend getting a longer barrel for clays use - a 26" is actually cheaper. https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/99827

I just checked and eBay has plenty of Rem 1100 stocks cheap - some already shortened. A competent local gunsmith should be able to modify a stock at reasonable cost. Not sure about interchangeability of Rem 1100 and 1187 stocks but I am sure there is a chart somewhere.

mmc45414
12-26-2018, 10:54 AM
I just remembered that your other hobby is woodworking, you probably have all of the tools you would need to just go get a Remington (or anything) and cut the stock down. This is one of those things that is kinda like automotive painting, it seems like exotic voodoo until you do it once. There a couple of methods, including using the angle fixture, but I think many pros just tape up the stock with masking tape and grind the pad down to the tape with a bench mount disk or belt sander. If you go too far there are readily available shims to add back in that get ground down the same way.

That way you would not be restricted to a youth model, that might not come with the barrel she would be best off with.

rob_s
12-26-2018, 11:01 AM
I just remembered that your other hobby is woodworking, you probably have all of the tools you would need to just go get a Remington (or anything) and cut the stock down. This is one of those things that is kinda like automotive painting, it seems like exotic voodoo until you do it once. There a couple of methods, including using the angle fixture, but I think many pros just tape up the stock with masking tape and grind the pad down to the tape with a bench mount disk or belt sander. If you go too far there are readily available shims to add back in that get ground down the same way.

That way you would not be restricted to a youth model, that might not come with the barrel she would be best off with.

yep, have the tools and have even done it before, just not interested in doing it now/again. Don't want to spend my limited shop time chopping up gun stocks, in part because if there's some perceived fitment issue later on it will be interpreted as being because I did it myself.

rob_s
02-10-2019, 09:16 PM
Shot the same tournament this weekend that started this all last year. I managed 80/100 so I was pretty proud of myself. A lot of the tips we got from the lesson we took really helped out.

Wife shot it too, with my a300. Made it all the way through and bronze 42. I was immensely proud of her. It only for finishing but for doing so well on only her 3rd try. Said she liked the a300 better than either of the other guns she’d shot before, so now I’ll buy a second identical gun for her and take the spacer out of the stock. And I’ll only have to stock 12ga, which is good since I accidentally ordered 6 boxes of 250, not the 6 boxes of 25 I thought I was ordering...

We are going on check out Quail Creek Plantation, a little north of the range we have been going to, with some friends in May, and the wife is going to shoot a ladies event in March at the range we have been going to (called “OK Corral”).

This is turning out to be the most fun I’ve had with a gun in a long, long, time.

rob_s
02-11-2019, 05:58 AM
While we're on the subject of new shotguns...

anyone that can help me understand the A400 line? There's the Xplor (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xplor-action/), the Xtreme (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xtreme-plus-synthetic/), and the Xcel (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xcel/), and then there's also some sort of "unico (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xtreme-unico-synthetic/)" business... and then most of these are available with any without the "KO" option which I understand to be their kickoff (https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-a400-xplor-kick-off-unit/c88306/) shock-absorbing stock (which seems it may be able to be retro-fitted to the A300?)...

I'm not looking to mess with success since the wife likes the $750 A300, but I'm curious about some of these other options.

Alpha Sierra
02-11-2019, 07:09 AM
Want your wife to enjoy shooting? Pay for a professional to fit that A300 for her even if the price includes a new stock.

Despite your insistence that fit doesn't really matter, it still does matter in more ways than a noob like you could understand yet.

rob_s
02-11-2019, 07:41 AM
Want your wife to enjoy shooting? Pay for a professional to fit that A300 for her even if the price includes a new stock.

Despite your insistence that fit doesn't really matter, it still does matter in more ways than a noob like you could understand yet.

Maybe. But then...


How can that be so? To "optimize advantageous equipment" one must actually know how to use it to its fullest advantage. That requires skill and time behind the gun: the two things that novices typically are lacking in.

Alpha Sierra
02-11-2019, 08:42 AM
Maybe. But then...
Shotgun shooting is unlike handgun and rifle shooting. Giving a novice a poorly fitting gun is like giving her a pistol with the rear sight drifted all the way over and expecting any kind of progress.

Again, feel free to ignore the advice given by others here who know more about this than you. It's the American way.

rob_s
02-11-2019, 08:48 AM
Shotgun shooting is unlike handgun and rifle shooting. Giving a novice a poorly fitting gun is like giving her a pistol with the rear sight drifted all the way over and expecting any kind of progress.

Again, feel free to ignore the advice given by others here who know more about this than you. It's the American way.

you know what else is the American way?

ignoring people that aren't actually interested in being helpful and instead are more interested in carrying around some grudge on the internet.

ranger
02-11-2019, 06:53 PM
I shot a lot of clays and I never had a gun fitted. Only thing I did was work on the recoil pad with or without spacers to get a reasonably correct length of pull. Best thing I did to improve my clay shooting was to habitually shoot with those much better than me - I dramatically improved my score watching better shooters and listening to their tips. I also shot regularly - Wednesday night 5 stand and some type of local or higher competition every weekend. That was 200+ shells per week. I started with a Rem 1100 moved to Browning Gold Sporting Clays (still have it) then Browning 325 European 32 inch (Invector choke not IN Plus - still have it).

Alpha Sierra
02-11-2019, 08:05 PM
I shot a lot of clays and I never had a gun fitted. Only thing I did was work on the recoil pad with or without spacers to get a reasonably correct length of pull. Best thing I did to improve my clay shooting was to habitually shoot with those much better than me - I dramatically improved my score watching better shooters and listening to their tips. I also shot regularly - Wednesday night 5 stand and some type of local or higher competition every weekend. That was 200+ shells per week. I started with a Rem 1100 moved to Browning Gold Sporting Clays (still have it) then Browning 325 European 32 inch (Invector choke not IN Plus - still have it).

I can shoot any Browning 325/425/525/625 right out of the box and crush anything I look at. They just fit me great. If that's the only gun I had exposure to, I would too think gun fitting is a frivolous expense.

But Brownings aren't the only gun I have experience with, and with that comes the knowledge that some guns just don't fit me very well or at all.

1100s are close but not quite there for me, and the Beretta 686 Sporting doesn't fit me at all. I found that out after I bought them and both ended up with adjustable combs. Now they are an extension of my hands and eyes.

Manbearspider
02-12-2019, 11:07 AM
Of course.

Especially with smaller shooters, gun selection has always been a struggle between lower weight for easier handling which in turn means more felt recoil, gun fit, and new shooters not really *getting* the technique (which I personally think is a large part of the problem here).

What I'm really most interested in is the most ubiquitous off-the-shelf shotgun used by women in sporting clays, preferably (well) under $1k.

Nobody is nearly as special as they think they are, and women have been shooting "men's guns" for hundreds of years successfully before Syren and others showed up hawking "you're so special" versions that cost $3k.

I really want her to try my A300 but at 6'-1" I have pretty much all the shims on the stock and we're going to have to deal with the LOP issue.


Beretta had an A300 Sporting RL (reduced length?) at SHOT Show this year: http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-outlander-sporting-rl/

Reduced length, trigger reach, and grip circumference for smaller built shooters. MSRP is $1,100, so street is probably around where the standard A300 Sporting is. The grip and stock felt similar to what Beretta did with their upscale Vittoria line.

Shotgun
02-12-2019, 04:06 PM
Shot the same tournament this weekend that started this all last year. I managed 80/100 so I was pretty proud of myself. A lot of the tips we got from the lesson we took really helped out.

Wife shot it too, with my a300. Made it all the way through and bronze 42. I was immensely proud of her. It only for finishing but for doing so well on only her 3rd try. Said she liked the a300 better than either of the other guns she’d shot before, so now I’ll buy a second identical gun for her and take the spacer out of the stock. And I’ll only have to stock 12ga, which is good since I accidentally ordered 6 boxes of 250, not the 6 boxes of 25 I thought I was ordering...

We are going on check out Quail Creek Plantation, a little north of the range we have been going to, with some friends in May, and the wife is going to shoot a ladies event in March at the range we have been going to (called “OK Corral”).

This is turning out to be the most fun I’ve had with a gun in a long, long, time.

Great post. Women are THE growth demographic for shotgun sports. Good for you that your wife enjoys shooting and that you are getting her out to do that!!


While we're on the subject of new shotguns...

anyone that can help me understand the A400 line? There's the Xplor (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xplor-action/), the Xtreme (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xtreme-plus-synthetic/), and the Xcel (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xcel/), and then there's also some sort of "unico (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xtreme-unico-synthetic/)" business... and then most of these are available with any without the "KO" option which I understand to be their kickoff (https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-a400-xplor-kick-off-unit/c88306/) shock-absorbing stock (which seems it may be able to be retro-fitted to the A300?)...

I'm not looking to mess with success since the wife likes the $750 A300, but I'm curious about some of these other options.

Regarding your question, the Xcel is Beretta's current target shotgun. It cycles extremely fast for follow up shots. I have actually seen a fair number of women shooting this shotgun. The blue receiver of the Xcel, at least where I shoot, does not seem to appeal to men as much. There is a black version of the Xcel that men seem to prefer. The other models in your inquiry list are more used for hunting. They could certainly be used for target shooting, but you rarely see those models on clays courses.

Go with the a300. Since your wife likes that shotgun, do not mess with your success at this stage. The a300 stock should have shims, as I recall, and you can get it to fit reasonably well. You can do the shims yourself, but a gunsmith can help with that for not much money. A simple inexpensive fitting option you might consider is to have the stock cut a little shorter and a new recoil pad installed. At least you can get the length of pull right for your wife without spending too much money. If she can shoot without developing a recoil "egg" on her check and she is hitting targets, there is no need for a stock fitting at this time. Keep it fun. If she keeps with it (hopefully) she can consider better shotguns and stock fittings as her skills and interest increase.

Keep encouraging the spouse and have fun!

rob_s
02-12-2019, 04:37 PM
Beretta had an A300 Sporting RL (reduced length?) at SHOT Show this year: http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-outlander-sporting-rl/

Reduced length, trigger reach, and grip circumference for smaller built shooters. MSRP is $1,100, so street is probably around where the standard A300 Sporting is. The grip and stock felt similar to what Beretta did with their upscale Vittoria line.
thanks, that's good to know.




Go with the a300. Since your wife likes that shotgun, do not mess with your success at this stage. The a300 stock should have shims, as I recall, and you can get it to fit reasonably well. You can do the shims yourself, but a gunsmith can help with that for not much money. A simple inexpensive fitting option you might consider is to have the stock cut a little shorter and a new recoil pad installed. At least you can get the length of pull right for your wife without spending too much money. If she can shoot without developing a recoil "egg" on her check and she is hitting targets, there is no need for a stock fitting at this time. Keep it fun. If she keeps with it (hopefully) she can consider better shotguns and stock fittings as her skills and interest increase.

Yes, the a300 has shims. Immediate plan is to get her one and take the shim out completely. See where we go from there. I'm frankly pretty encouraged that she managed to finish the course with my gun, as I'm 6' tall and pretty thin, and she's much shorter and dealing with boobs. I have to think that my gun less the shim will be a vast improvement for her.

rob_s
02-18-2019, 06:02 AM
Stopped in Bass Pro yesterday and got the wife her own a300. Came home and took out the shim. Even with the shortest screws I couldn’t quite get the base pad tightened all the way down but I think we are ok for now. She definitely felt the difference with the stock 1” shorter.

I held the a300 Outlander Sporting (http://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-outlander-sporting/), and loved the way it felt. Not sure why it felt different but it did. Wife was actually encouraging me to get that for myself and give her my a300 synthetic, but I decided I’d rather have the $300 in my pocket than in the gun. I’m hoping that this “takes” and I’ll wventually go with an a400 or maybe oven an OU.

rob_s
03-05-2019, 10:31 AM
Went out again this past weekend so wife could shoot her new gun for the first time. We put the smallest pad I could find on it (Beretta Micro-Core .39in (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009PTUT4O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)) and she loved it. She got out to a rough start but rallied and broke 47 out of 100. I hit a personal best of 81, also after a bit of a rough start.

We encountered a woman's group that was shooting, and the leader of that group scolded my wife for shooting a "man's gun" and had her shoulder a women's model that had a monte carlo style stock. I was all set to have to go buy some $3k Syren, but when we got back in the cart the wife said "fuck that bitch, I like my man's gun".

I knew I picked a good one.

We're planning on another outing in March, then going away to another range in May. We're also talking about joining the club we've been going to so that we'd be paying $0.38/clay instead of $0.50. My ciphering says we'd need to shoot 20 times (each) in a year to make it worth the $300/ea to join.

rob_s
03-17-2019, 09:05 AM
Anyone have firsthand access to a Scabbard Tech golf cart mount? I'm talking about this part
https://www.scabbard.com/product/strut-right-side/

They list it as being for EZ Go, but I have a club car. I'm wondering the hole spacing on the cart-attachment side so I can see if maybe it'll match up to the holes on my cart.

I suppose worst-case I could just drill another hole(s)...

Borderland
03-17-2019, 02:52 PM
Auto loader of some type. Rem 1100 is a good one if you aren't shooting in competition. You can change the barrels on those for different balance and speed. Trap works better with balance toward the muzzle and skeet better with balance more toward the rear hand.

Beretta 391 is probably the gold standard for clays but expensive new.

I shot trap for years (for money) and used just about everything. A lot of the big dogs shoot high dollar O/U's but unless you compete there really isn't a burning reason to spend a lot of money on one. A good O/U will cost 2K. A good auto about half that. There are plenty of used 1100's out there for a lot less. That would be my choice in your situation.

rob_s
03-17-2019, 05:18 PM
Auto loader of some type. Rem 1100 is a good one if you aren't shooting in competition. You can change the barrels on those for different balance and speed. Trap works better with balance toward the muzzle and skeet better with balance more toward the rear hand.

Beretta 391 is probably the gold standard for clays but expensive new.

I shot trap for years (for money) and used just about everything. A lot of the big dogs shoot high dollar O/U's but unless you compete there really isn't a burning reason to spend a lot of money on one. A good O/U will cost 2K. A good auto about half that. There are plenty of used 1100's out there for a lot less. That would be my choice in your situation.

I see you’re new.

This thread is over a year old, and I’ve already made two purchases.

Best practice is to read the whole thread, or a least skim it if it’s a year old.

But thanks for the suggestion, even if the ship has already sailed.

rob_s
08-06-2019, 07:49 AM
Haven't updated this in awhile, and since this is the only shooting I really do now and this is therefore kind of my "journal", I thought I'd check back in.

Since the last time I posted in this thread, I've added the scabbards to the golf cart and am very happy with them.

We've been out shooting a few times since then.

In May we went with two other couples and stayed over at Quail Creek Plantation (http://www.quailcreekplantation.com/) in their "5-bedroom house (http://www.quailcreekplantation.com/lodging.cfm)". Wife and I gave 5-stand a shot and managed to hit just about not a goddamn thing, and the following day we all went out shooting a round of sporting clays at which we did much better. The course is beautiful, and includes some elevated shooting platforms that are a real blast to shoot from, particularly since we hadn't done that before. The stay in the house was amazing. Zero cell service, so pretty much completely disconnected unless you walk out to the gate post, and we took a ride around the massive property and saw literally herds of deer. Never seen that before. The whole trip reminded me of what I really always enjoyed about shooting, which is an excuse to spend time with friends and family.

We've also been back to OK Corral (https://okcorralgunclub.com/) a couple of times, and on one outing we took the kids (for father's day, as I recall) and stayed over in their cabins (https://okcorralgunclub.com/stay/). They are two girls, 8 and 10 at the time, and we really enjoyed having them along for the most part. For one thing, they took turns keeping score and being trapper, which was a lot of fun and surprisingly led to minimal bickering. Hoping maybe the bug will bite them, but right now neither is really strong enough to hold the guns. We did a little plinking with the .22s afterwards so we'll see if they get any interest. Looking forward to taking our little trapper and scorekeeper back again.

Last month we were on our annual trip to the Newport Folk Festival which is typically far less hippie-ish than it sounds, but in today's political climate there was a lot of "me too-ism" to the lineup so we ditched the morning of Saturday and went clays shooting! We hit up Peace Dale Shooting Preserve (https://www.pdshootingpreserve.com/) and had a great time. We obviously had to rent everything, and I tried out a Beretta A400 and the wife got her hands on a Syren (https://syrenusa.com/syren-l4s-sporting/) finally. I was worried we'd get "spoiled" by the more expensive guns, but good news is that both of us agreed we prefer our own (less expensive) A300s. The facility was pretty great as it was full on shooting in the woods, over valleys, etc. however, we had several trap malfunctions that put a real damper on the day and proved quite distracting. Didn't ruin the day though.

on the hardware side of things, I installed a Briley extended bolt release (https://www.gungoddess.com/products/bolt-release-lever) and bolt handle (https://www.gungoddess.com/collections/for-shotguns/products/bolt-handle?variant=42411468867) on my gun. Mostly a waste of time and money I'm sure, but it was a good excuse to learn to take the gun apart. Haven't shot with them yet but we'll see if I like them, and if I got the gun put back together correctly!

Right now it's just so goddamn hot! But OK Corral has a Friday night shoot and dinner so I'm going to try and bug out of work early one day soon and go shoot with the fam.

rob_s
05-09-2020, 10:53 AM
Just a little update...

Got out to Quail Creek Plantation the day after they re-opened. Took the wife and girls (the wife shoots with me, the girls push the buttons and keep score, the trapper and the keeper) and we had damn near the whole place to ourselves.

On a side note, if you don’t know, the founder died and the family is looking to get out of the business, so it’s for sale (https://quailcreeksale.com/). $25M if you’re interested. I. The meantime they’ve shut down all lodge and lodging activities, and they’ve chosen to keep the property across the road where the bunkhouse is, sadly. We stayed there a year ago with friends and had one of the best goddamn weekends of my life.

Anywho, I shot an 87 on the red course, having previously shot an 81 there so I felt ok about that after 4 months off.

Funny thing happened though... aftermarket bolt handle fell off. I’m not entirely sure that the wife didn’t yank it and toss it in the weeds as she does not appear to see the humor in the gold parts that I do. :p

Didn’t have the factory part with me so finished up with her gun, and didn’t do too much worse (take that you fit hippies!) Fortunately I kept the factory part and it just popped back in. Switching over to my wife’s gun for half the course did make me miss the extended bolt catch from a function perspective but also made me not miss the gold charging handle from a function perspective since you don’t really ever touch it anyway. Still sad to have lost my bling.

53671

53672

53673

rob_s
05-09-2020, 10:54 AM
Anyone have firsthand access to a Scabbard Tech golf cart mount? I'm talking about this part
https://www.scabbard.com/product/strut-right-side/

They list it as being for EZ Go, but I have a club car. I'm wondering the hole spacing on the cart-attachment side so I can see if maybe it'll match up to the holes on my cart.

I suppose worst-case I could just drill another hole(s)...

Also, revisiting this, these things re worth every penny! So awesome!

RancidSumo
07-04-2020, 06:51 PM
Maybe I missed it, but how tall is your wife? I’m trying everything I can to get my girlfriend into shooting clays with me because these days it’s close to my only hobby. I mostly shoot skeet but doubt she’ll find that as fun as I do so hoping to get her into sporting clays. My gun, fit to me at 6’3”, is hilariously too big for her. Trying to decide if a regular A300 I could repurpose into my own backup gun if she won’t go will work or if I should get the RL, which would never fit me.

rob_s
07-05-2020, 10:07 AM
Maybe I missed it, but how tall is your wife? I’m trying everything I can to get my girlfriend into shooting clays with me because these days it’s close to my only hobby. I mostly shoot skeet but doubt she’ll find that as fun as I do so hoping to get her into sporting clays. My gun, fit to me at 6’3”, is hilariously too big for her. Trying to decide if a regular A300 I could repurpose into my own backup gun if she won’t go will work or if I should get the RL, which would never fit me.

5’4” maybe? She shoots the a300 with no spacers in the stock. I couldn’t even use the factory screws as they were too long.

I think every sporting clays facility I’ve been to rents guns. Might be best to try that route. We did that first, and even had her shoot some 20 Grage guns at first, but ultimately she liked my gun so we bought another one and made it as short as possible.

OlongJohnson
07-10-2020, 11:23 PM
I sold several lesser shotguns a few months back, and I'm continuing to liquidate other stuff of questionable utility. I have been thinking about turning some of that money back into a single, quality Italian semi-auto suitable for birds, both those made of delicious meat and those made of clay. With "everything" being sold out, I checked. It seems that there is still some availability of Beretta A400s and prices haven't yet gone up. It may still make sense to buy.

I'm 6'4", moderately fit. I have a slightly gimpy right shoulder due to an old snowboarding incident, and have had back surgery. So I expect that if I end up shooting as many rounds of 12ga as one might at clay pigeons, something like the Kick-Off system could easily pay for itself in reduction of further pain & suffering and medical expenses over the long term. In any case, it would be prudent insurance against such an outcome. Plus, I like the mechanical and manual of arms sameness relative to the 1301. I imagine this being "the one" traditional sporting shotgun to be used for all relevant purposes for the next 20-40 years, barring getting super hopped up on competition and going down a rabbit hole on shotgun tech, which is unlikely.

I'm thinking one of the camo'ed models would be the way to go, as it favors the delicious meat side of things while functioning equally well for the less tasty clay side of the shotgun universe. A non-camo'ed model may fit in better at the club, but is at at least a theoretical disadvantage if going after meat.

It looks like the A400 Xtreme Plus is the new model (oversized bolt handle and bolt release lever like the gen 2 1301s, plus a mid-rib bead) and has replaced the A400 Xtreme Unico, with smaller bolt handle and a bolt release button. Is there any reason to seek out the more traditional model?

I'm wondering about the long-term durability of the soft-touch rubber on the stocks. I've seen a lot of that kind of stuff turn to goo after enough years, everything from a Nikon camera body to a BMW interior and power tools.

Any general or specific thoughts?

Anything else I should do other than go back and read this whole thread from the beginning?

e_stern

mmc45414
07-11-2020, 06:48 AM
It seems that there is still some availability of Beretta A400s and prices haven't yet gone up.

Excellent logic.
My only tweak to the theory would depend on where you plan to shoot targets. The club I shoot at every week for $4 expects you to pick up you hulls (you mentioned back surgery...), when i visit my BiL and we shoot his club ($6) they pay people to pick them up for you. And it seems like when we pay $40-$50 to shoot sporting clays it is acceptable to leave them on the ground.

Just wondering if you end up investing $1200 or so in an A400 and would maybe end up wanting a 686 that woulda been $2k?

I have a 391 Extrema and had a A400, both great.

Also what little bird hunting I do is done with the 686, and it is supposed to be a target gun, but the birds don't seem to know the difference.


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

rob_s
07-11-2020, 07:02 AM
The rubbery bits in that Beretta would concern me too
https://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xtreme-plus/

Being in Florida we also see parts like that go to hell quicker than maybe they were supposed to.

Not being a bird hunter I can’t say, but my sense is that none of that Camo really matters and is really more about marketing than practicality. Seems like lots of ducks and geese and such got killed with wooden shotguns for years... I don’t think it let a paint job dictate my choice (but, then, I painted my gun tan myself, much to my wife’s chagrin, so what do I know).

OlongJohnson
07-11-2020, 09:37 AM
The rubbery bits in that Beretta would concern me too
https://www.beretta.com/en-us/a400-xtreme-plus/

Being in Florida we also see parts like that go to hell quicker than maybe they were supposed to.

Did some more digging on the rubber issue.

Micro Core Recoil Pads and Kickoff Cover Deterioration (https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=481188)

includes a link to Beretta's site:

Why is the Rubber on my Firearm Melting/Disintegrating? (https://berettausa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1055/kw/Recoil%20pad)

and a link to this page:

MIDSOLE MIDLIFE CRISIS (http://bergpost.hanwag.de/?p=468&lang=en)

I had that latter situation happen to a pair of Raichle (Swiss-made) hiking boots. They were ~10 years old, and the soles started coming off about 3.5 miles into an easy 5 mile loop. Got them resoled with Vibram and they continue to be excellent, although the miles accumulate more slowly than when I was younger and lived in a place with better nature.

Another potential factor is what the guns sit on in the safes. I have noticed that many times, soft-touch polymers will get gooey where they are in contact with other polymers. It's like the chemicals in the two materials are drawn to each other and intermingle. It could be that if the butt pads are in contact with foam on the bottom of a safe, that's part of the issue.

A couple weeks ago, I stopped by @RexG's favorite LGS to look around. They had a used A400 with a butt pad that left pieces of itself on my shirt just from shouldering it a few times. Looked pretty much like the pictures.

I guess the OK part is that I am allergic to DEET and prefer clothing to sunscreen, although I do put sunscreen on the backs of my hands.

Looks like the butt pad and the kick-off insert for the stock are available. Brownells continues its tradition on those items of charging 14 percent more for Beretta parts than the MSRP on Beretta's site; at least MGW seems to be getting more parts coverage for Beretta recently.

I'm less confident in the 20-40 year concept now, in spite of Beretta being 500 years old. Someone on another forum posted a response from Beretta noting that replacement forearms and buttstocks for their A391 had been sold out for awhile. That is a predictable result of parts being replaced at greater-than-planned-for rates. I've seen it happen with cars, where a particular model has trouble with one system, such as the transmission, and you end up needing parts that are unavailable or very expensive because the supply has been consumed, when with other cars that are quite a bit older and otherwise similar, those parts are cheap and plentiful, because they don't get used up faster than the cars that need them.

Will have to keep thinking about this one.

OlongJohnson
07-11-2020, 10:03 PM
Excellent logic.

Thanks. I'm going to sleep on it soon, but at this point, I'm unlikely to buy a Beretta.

I'm not looking at any specific use in the near term. It was more like use this opportunity to set myself up with a very durable piece of quality, excellent performing hardware, so that when a need/opportunity to do traditional shotgun things arises in the future, I won't have to rush out and pay whatever it costs to get set up in the moment. I could just pull the rig out of the safe and go. But at least with the Beretta, it's not clear it would work that way. Significant chance of pulling it out of the safe and finding expensive problems that are likely to become difficult to solve at some point well inside the time horizon I was thinking this idea would cover.

It may make more sense to just buy a 28-in vent rib barrel to swap onto the 1301.

rob_s
07-12-2020, 06:03 AM
Thanks. I'm going to sleep on it soon, but at this point, I'm unlikely to buy a Beretta.

I'm not looking at any specific use in the near term. It was more like use this opportunity to set myself up with a very durable piece of quality, excellent performing hardware, so that when a need/opportunity to do traditional shotgun things arises in the future, I won't have to rush out and pay whatever it costs to get set up in the moment. I could just pull the rig out of the safe and go. But at least with the Beretta, it's not clear it would work that way. Significant chance of pulling it out of the safe and finding expensive problems that are likely to become difficult to solve at some point well inside the time horizon I was thinking this idea would cover.

It may make more sense to just buy a 28-in vent rib barrel to swap onto the 1301.

FWIW, if you look back in this thread to whenever I bought my a300, I have yet to clean it, have yet to have any failures, and all I do is pull it out of the safe and then go shoot 100 of the cheapest shells I can find. I haven’t counted rounds but it has to be up over 1k by now. My wife’s matching gun has less rounds but the same usage.

mmc45414
07-12-2020, 06:34 AM
It may make more sense to just buy a 28-in vent rib barrel to swap onto the 1301.

FWIW, if you look back in this thread to whenever I bought my a300
Th A300 costs about as much as a barrel.

JSGlock34
09-06-2020, 11:12 AM
For what it's worth, over the past few months my son has been getting into clay shooting (mostly Wobble Trap, with some sporting clays mixed in). He's picking it up quick. We took some lessons with a rental gun - the instructor handed him a Franchi Instinct SL O/U 20 gauge - and he just seemed to connect with the gun. So when I spotted one on sale I picked it up. The aluminum receiver means it is exceptionally lightweight, but the recoil is actually quite soft. Came with a nice set of extended chokes and a decent case. I'm sure he'll eventually outgrow it, but right now couldn't be happier with it. Watching him shoot it makes me wonder why I lug around the 12 gauge...

rob_s
06-21-2021, 06:08 AM
Had to dig up this thread to brag on my wife….

We shot a round of clays yesterday, and she broke her all time record by a whopping margin! She shot 71/100 yesterday, while her previous best was in the 50s!

I’m so proud of her that I don’t even know my own score!

I *think* that our recent pistol range session where she learned to shoot her new Glock 48 paid off on the clays course. Interestingly, I also think she did as well as she did with the handguns because of her previous outings with the shotgun. So there’s something to the cross-training thing, I think.

If you’re trying to get your wife interested in the shooting sports, finding something she’s good at and/or enjoys (typically for most humans, the same thing ;) ) and then cross-training on other guns or disciplines may be a way “in”.

Oldherkpilot
06-21-2021, 07:52 AM
Deleted

rob_s
12-27-2021, 12:41 PM
anybody got a vest they like?

is it worth trying to carry a whole box of shells in a pocket on a vest? I'm assuming not. But I could be persuaded that a property textured shoulder pad and a picket that'd hold a good 10 shells for a station wouldn't be a bad thing.

We're in SE Florida, so something all-ish mesh would seem appropriate (save that textured shoulder pad, obviously).

Dr_Thanatos
12-27-2021, 02:57 PM
anybody got a vest they like?

is it worth trying to carry a whole box of shells in a pocket on a vest? I'm assuming not. But I could be persuaded that a property textured shoulder pad and a picket that'd hold a good 10 shells for a station wouldn't be a bad thing.

We're in SE Florida, so something all-ish mesh would seem appropriate (save that textured shoulder pad, obviously).

I like Beretta's vests. Many are ambi. They do make a mostly mesh version. Something like this

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/mens-clothing/vests/full-mesh-vest/

I have a cloth one and a mesh one. Both have held up well. The cloth isn't particularly hot. I have a browning mesh vest that I'm not nearly as fond of.

Shotgun
12-27-2021, 06:10 PM
is it worth trying to carry a whole box of shells in a pocket on a vest?

Many clay shooters prefer t-shirts and a shell pouch over a vest.

https://www.etsy.com/market/leather_shell_pouch

Rick R
12-27-2021, 06:34 PM
anybody got a vest they like?

is it worth trying to carry a whole box of shells in a pocket on a vest? I'm assuming not. But I could be persuaded that a property textured shoulder pad and a picket that'd hold a good 10 shells for a station wouldn't be a bad thing.

We're in SE Florida, so something all-ish mesh would seem appropriate (save that textured shoulder pad, obviously).

My wife uses a Browning vest from Cabelas in the summer but switches to a canvas Beretta hunting vest from the Beretta shop in Sicily in the fall and winter. She just puts enough shells in the pocket for each station with the remainder riding in the cart or baby buggy.

For me, the pouches get in the way getting in and out of a cart. I just put 8-10 shells in my pants pocket in summer and a half box or so in the slash pocket of a Carhart type vest in cooler weather. I may get a Wild Hare vest this year as they’re popular with the guys in the club I shoot most at.

Cool Breeze
12-27-2021, 07:16 PM
I have the mesh Beretta one and I like it a lot. I carry box in each front pocket and sometimes one in the back bird pocket. I much prefer carrying shells in vest pockets than a belt mounted rig.

rob_s
12-28-2021, 06:25 AM
Thanks guys.

I found this thing after some googling, and it may be a good option for me, although I was hoping to also get the texture of a shoulder pad to help keep the butt from hanging up on whatever shirt I happen to be wearing.
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/cabelas-targetmaster-half-vest-for-men

I’ve tried the shell pouch on a simple belt and hated it for a lot of reasons. That half vest might address some of them.

Right now I’m just setting a box of shells on the rail of the “house” but want something for if I’m shooting somewhere that doesn’t have that. We just set the box on the rail now and both load out of it…. Which, as I type out, makes me realize that having a vest for me is still going to be a problem because then the wife won’t have the box to load from. Shit.

Caballoflaco
12-28-2021, 08:25 AM
Thanks guys.

I found this thing after some googling, and it may be a good option for me, although I was hoping to also get the texture of a shoulder pad to help keep the butt from hanging up on whatever shirt I happen to be wearing.
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/cabelas-targetmaster-half-vest-for-men

I’ve tried the shell pouch on a simple belt and hated it for a lot of reasons. That half vest might address some of them.

Right now I’m just setting a box of shells on the rail of the “house” but want something for if I’m shooting somewhere that doesn’t have that. We just set the box on the rail now and both load out of it…. Which, as I type out, makes me realize that having a vest for me is still going to be a problem because then the wife won’t have the box to load from. Shit.

After some YouTube research I’ve discovered that the Brits solve this problem by having a guy that loads their gun for them as they’re shooting. They just open the action and some plebe drops two more shells in the gun for them.

rob_s
12-28-2021, 09:38 AM
After some YouTube research I’ve discovered that the Brits solve this problem by having a guy that loads their gun for them as they’re shooting. They just open the action and some plebe drops two more shells in the gun for them.

our original "couples class" the instructor kept doing that, initially to me and for the wife the entire time. I got really pissed about it, really quick, and he figured out pretty quick that I might not know flying target shooting but I'm ok with a gun (I think it was the Sordins, and then at some point he says "you're shooting in kind of a tactical stance" :P). For the wife, it was actually really helpful in that context since it was one less thing she had to think about. At several subsequent outings I continued to load for her, but now she does it all herself.

I wonder if the Brits are doing that out of some sort of bougieness or if it's just a matter of the range folks thinking "oh christ, let's keep this inbred royal hemophiliac from shooting off their own foot and bleeding everywhere." :confused:

Cory
12-28-2021, 09:47 AM
The Beretta A300 Ultima looks like a good gun for skeet, trap, and hunting. I wish the gas system of my 1301T was available in a target/hunting gun that didn't cost $1500+ like the A400s.

I guess my beat up 1187 will still work for games, and my Mossy 835 for hunting. It'd be nice to have the same manual of arms for everything though.

I use a lowes canvas apron to hold shells. Probably should look at another option, lol.

DamonL
12-28-2021, 10:02 AM
There are a lot of choices in carrying ammo. I use a Browning vest that has a pocket for an optional gel pad at the shoulder. I bought the gel pad insert too. There are other brands that have that feature, too. In shooting a round, I actually fill one pocket with 25 rds and shoot a full round. I catch the spent shells and put them in the opposite pocket rather than police shells after. I use an over/under which allows me to catch shells.

rob_s
12-28-2021, 10:05 AM
The Beretta A300 Ultima looks like a good gun for skeet, trap, and hunting.

The "ultima" family (https://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-ultima-family/) didn't exist when I was originally shopping when I started this thread, but the A300 Ultima Black Synthetic (https://www.beretta.com/en-us/beretta-a300-ultima-black-synthetic/) is almost certainly what I'd buy/suggest today.

What I have now (A300 Outlander Synthetic)
81960


What I'd buy today (A300 Ultima Black Synthetic)
81961

Cory
12-28-2021, 11:53 AM
The "ultima" family (https://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-ultima-family/) didn't exist when I was originally shopping when I started this thread, but the A300 Ultima Black Synthetic (https://www.beretta.com/en-us/beretta-a300-ultima-black-synthetic/) is almost certainly what I'd buy/suggest today.

What I have now (A300 Outlander Synthetic)
81960


What I'd buy today (A300 Ultima Black Synthetic)
81961

I'm pretty sure the recoil/action springs are in the stock (much like an 1187) instead of under the forend like a 1301 or A400. So while the A400 could potentially get an adapter and magpul, the A300 definitely can't. Then again, if the kick-off system is really great that might not be a concern anyway.

I think the ultima looks like a truly great buy right now. Wish the chokes matched the 1301 but such is life.

rob_s
12-28-2021, 02:32 PM
I'm pretty sure the recoil/action springs are in the stock (much like an 1187) instead of under the forend like a 1301 or A400.
Ideally, I'd buy a 1301 and a Beretta A400 Xcel Sporting KO (https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/90394/beretta+j40ck10+a400+xcel+sporting+12+ga+30+kick-off), but I don't shoot often enough to make the ~$1700 A400 KO worthwhile for me. I don't think I've ever missed a bird that I can blame on the gun.


So while the A400 could potentially get an adapter and magpul, the A300 definitely can't.
Based on my own limited use, and what I've seen at the range, the last thing I'd be adding to a Clays gun is a Magpul stock. YMMV


Then again, if the kick-off system is really great that might not be a concern anyway.
I've not shot a gun with it yet. I'd like to. I sort of kind of keep an eye out on the rental rack when we go to various ranges as that would be a good chance to try it firsthand. I'm also unsure about shortening stocks with the system. I had to order about the slimmest pad I could find and discard the factory screws to get the wife's Outlander down as short as possible without getting into cutting the plastic.


I think the ultima looks like a truly great buy right now. Wish the chokes matched the 1301 but such is life.
For me, this is another one of those things that seems like a big deal at first, but then likely wouldn't be in reality. I doubt I'd ever change the choke in a 1301, and I've never changed the choke in my A300 (save, I think, swapping it out when I first got it). Again, I may not know what I don't know, but I've never missed a bird I thought wouldn't have been hit with a different choke.

I average, I think, about 85 on the bunny slope courses. I average like 0 for 0 on the "hard" courses. There may be an equipment issue there, but I imagine it's the weak nut behind the trigger that's the issues. ;)

Jim Watson
12-28-2021, 04:18 PM
After some YouTube research I’ve discovered that the Brits solve this problem by having a guy that loads their gun for them as they’re shooting. They just open the action and some plebe drops two more shells in the gun for them.


I wonder if the Brits are doing that out of some sort of bougieness or if it's just a matter of the range folks thinking "oh christ, let's keep this inbred royal hemophiliac from shooting off their own foot and bleeding everywhere." :confused:

No, no, you miss the point and the technique. The proper toff has a PAIR of guns. He fires two shots and exchanges guns with his loader. If one has attended the school operated by the gunmaker, one has a good chance of bringing down four birds.

Roger Barlow had a 4 barrel Lancaster that short-circuited that system; fire two at incoming driven grouse, stroke the Winchester style underlever to reset the action for the other pair of barrels as you turn to shoot two going away.
That would probably have gotten him the Cut Sublime in Society.

Cory
01-04-2022, 09:42 AM
New Years morning I went and shot crazy quail with a guy from work. I used my battered 1187 Premier and did okay. Had a great time. I used an old OD saw drum bandolier this time. It held 3 games of shells without much fan fare. I think i'll be using it from now on. I think I'm going to try my 1301T at this just for giggles.

I shot the last game with his gun. A new to him Browning Citori O/U. Barrel is 26" but I'm not certain of the exact model.

82324
My 1187 for reference.
82325

His Browning was beyond easy to shatter clays with. It mounted easy, and sight picture was a snap. While I still think an A400 or A300 Ultima would be best for my use case... I wonder if we're leaving a lot of enjoyment, fun, and options on the table by ignoring O/U guns.

rob_s
01-04-2022, 11:14 AM
I think I'm going to try my 1301T at this just for giggles.
Be aware, some flying-target ranges have minimum barrel lengths. Best to check ahead or just plan to use the shorty on the "back nine" where you're not in clear view of the clubhouse.


His Browning was beyond easy to shatter clays with. It mounted easy, and sight picture was a snap. While I still think an A400 or A300 Ultima would be best for my use case... I wonder if we're leaving a lot of enjoyment, fun, and options on the table by ignoring O/U guns.
AFAIK the best shooters in the world shoot OU. That said, from my perspective...


I want some amount of parity with the defense guns, primarily for the wife. Buying her an A300 is the gateway to my getting a 1301. ;)
OU are, IMO, like revolvers in that people *think* they are simpler but they aren't. In talking with a guy that ran a facility I was at, they changed from some OU to the A300 due to reliability issues and have been happy with the change.
Along those lines, an OU is more expensive to get "right" (maybe that makes them like 1911s, IDK...). I think it was discussed early in this thread, but at $700 the A300 is a good option and there is no good OU option at that price point.

Rick R
01-04-2022, 11:50 AM
I’ve shot a Beretta A400 with the Kick Off, it softens the initial hit of recoil with light target loads and you can feel it compress with heavy trap loads. If the Ouch! of recoil causes the shooter a problem the Kick Off should help especially if they are shooting 100+ rounds a day.

I’m not serious about competition so I shoot different guns depending on my mood. IMHO Your 1301T will shoot quite well if you do your part. I have two 870’s 21” guns with RemChoke, vent rib, Magpul stock, Hogue fore ends and +3 magazine tubes. I keep one loaded at my house and the other gets to go out to play. We’ve broken clays at over 50 yards using the skeet tube reliably, not just a golden bb event. The Magpul stock actually works quite well, the +3 magazine shifts the balance forward even when not adding firepower.


I wonder if we're leaving a lot of enjoyment, fun, and options on the table by ignoring O/U guns.
After spending years shooting clays with various guns I just spent way too much on a Caesar Guerini Summit Sporting mostly for joy of ownership. Plus I’ve been impressed with my wife’s Syren version of the same gun. Since it is a “competition” gun I may pick up a few birds but I don’t expect the Heavens to open and angels to break my targets with divine fly swatters. The perceived pluses for an O/U are balance, single sighting plane, selection of chokes, reliability, durability and you don’t have to chase ejected brass. No matter what gun you settle on fit is the biggest factor to reliably breaking targets.

In reality your 1100 will break any reasonable target just as well as any other gun with your 1301T close behind.

My advice would be buy flats of ammo when they’re available and find a convenient place to go shoot. From there you’ll find out what you like.

JSGlock34
01-04-2022, 05:24 PM
I've seen more problems with autoloaders than O/U guns at our local clay range - typically maintenance issues (O-rings), lack of lube, or problems with ammunition (some of the lighter target loads seem to cause cycling problems, and these days getting 'preferred loads' can be problematic). That's not to say O/U guns are problem free, though I've never had an issue with my Berettas.

Cory
01-04-2022, 05:33 PM
I've seen more problems with autoloaders than O/U guns at our local clay range - typically maintenance issues (O-rings), lack of lube, or problems with ammunition (some of the lighter target loads seem to cause cycling problems, and these days getting 'preferred loads' can be problematic). That's not to say O/U guns are problem free, though I've never had an issue with my Berettas.

What Beretta O/Us do you have? Or did you mean you have Beretta autoloaders?

JSGlock34
01-04-2022, 05:50 PM
What Beretta O/Us do you have? Or did you mean you have Beretta autoloaders?
I own a 686 Silver Pigeon Sporting and a new 690 Sporting. Both 30" guns in 12 gauge. My son also shoots a 28" Franchi SL O/U in 20 gauge - the Franchi has been some of the best gun money I've spent. The aluminum receiver and 20 gauge cartridge make for a light and easy shooting youth gun.

I also own a 1301 Tactical. But in my post I meant that I haven't seen problems with my Beretta O/Us. (No problems with the 1301T for that matter.). I'll note that I've certainly seen O/Us malfunction, typically rental guns with some mileage, but far more frequently I've seen problems with autoloaders.

rob_s
01-04-2022, 07:59 PM
Comparing a $2-$3k OU to a $500 whateveripulledfromgrandpappyssafe isn’t really the kind of comparison I was making.

The advantage of the semi auto is that someone like me can buy a $700 Beretta and shoot it for years without issue.

I don’t think that possibility exists with a $700 OU. At least that’s the advice I’ve gotten everywhere I’ve looked, and in my limited experience with other folks shooting OUs of that price range.

JSGlock34
01-04-2022, 08:33 PM
Comparing a $2-$3k OU to a $500 whateveripulledfromgrandpappyssafe isn’t really the kind of comparison I was making.

The advantage of the semi auto is that someone like me can buy a $700 Beretta and shoot it for years without issue.

I don’t think that possibility exists with a $700 OU. At least that’s the advice I’ve gotten everywhere I’ve looked, and in my limited experience with other folks shooting OUs of that price range.

Certainly not disagreeing with the value proposition - and I think the Beretta autoloaders are all-around excellent guns.

I'm not quite sure where the value line is for an O/U - the debate there seems to start at Beretta vs. Browning and then you're already at the $2K mark. I think our experience with Franchi suggests that there are other options that aren't quite as expensive that will serve well, but even Franchi O/Us are $1200 guns and I haven't seen many of them. I'd like to find someone with first hand experience with one of these as I have some friends who would like a more reasonably price O/U...

Franchi Instinct Sporting 40836 12GA Over Under Shotgun, 30″ Barrel, A-Grade Satin Walnut (https://shoot-straight.com/product/franchi-instinct-sporting-40836-over-under-shotgun-30-barrel-aa-grade-satin-walnut/)

Rick R
01-04-2022, 08:34 PM
Assuming the controls are the same I can see a real reason for using an A300 or A400 for clays when a 1301T is in your HD batting lineup. That’s exactly why I have matching 870’s.

I’ve seen more problems with semiauto shotguns but at the end most were operator errors. Semi’s require more brain activity to use, buttons, levers and cycling bits. With an O/U you open it, drop in two shells, close the gun, call “Pull!”, watch two satisfying puffs of target smoke, open the gun and catch two empties, then wait for your next turn. Kinda zen-ish.

Rick R
01-04-2022, 08:44 PM
I'd like to find someone with first hand experience with one of these as I have some friends who would like a more reasonably price O/U...

Franchi Instinct Sporting 40836 12GA Over Under Shotgun, 30″ Barrel, A-Grade Satin Walnut (https://shoot-straight.com/product/franchi-instinct-sporting-40836-over-under-shotgun-30-barrel-aa-grade-satin-walnut/)

The club I shoot at has 100+ members and I don’t remember ever seeing a Franchi, the only time they’ve ever come up in conversation several curmudgeons accused them of kicking harder than reasonable. The kiss of death with that bunch.

FWIW, Some of the CZ (Huglu) guns seem to work. I’ve been shooting a F.A.I.R Carrera with no problems over a couple thousand rounds.

JSGlock34
01-04-2022, 08:58 PM
The club I shoot at has 100+ members and I don’t remember ever seeing a Franchi, the only time they’ve ever come up in conversation several curmudgeons accused them of kicking harder than reasonable. The kiss of death with that bunch.

My son did an introductory lesson at a club where they provided the guns and had the Franchis in 20 gauge for the kids. He was breaking clays right away and had a smile on his face the entire time. The recoil was fine despite the lightweight receiver. The club seemed pleased with the performance of the guns. I'm not sure I would have ever looked for that model except for that very positive experience, and I'm happy we picked one up.

To your point though, I'm not sure I've seen any other Franchis.

Rick R
01-04-2022, 09:08 PM
I'm not sure I would have ever looked for that model except for that very positive experience, and I'm happy we picked one up.

I’ve seen guns from Krieghoff to Savage 311, some very exotic guns included. Our resident FFL usually shoots a Tri Star .410 O/U. The Franchi’s I’ve seen in stores were quite nice but all field guns which may explain the sparse showing at a target venue.

JSGlock34
01-04-2022, 09:23 PM
The Franchi’s I’ve seen in stores were quite nice but all field guns which may explain the sparse showing at a target venue.

This one is a field gun too; kid is so accustomed to the auto-safety at this point that he's thrown-off when he shoots a sporting gun that doesn't have one...

mmc45414
01-05-2022, 09:16 AM
IMO one thing about the value cut-off line might be support. If you spend $700 on an auto from an established manufacturer and you shoot it until it breaks there is probably going to be a parts and/or service option. With a $700 Russian or Turkish O/U maybe not so surely. But probably by that point you will have got your use from it and leaving it behind might not be that big a deal. I shot my SKB 85TSS (one of the Japanese guns) until one of the ejectors broke, it took a lotta rounds and took a long time. I was able to send it back and have it repaired (also upgraded the triggers to mechanical) but back then it cost $500 just to get it fixed up. So it was like an $1800 gun I spent $500 on, throwing away a $700 gun after thousands of rounds is probably not a big deal, if it lasts thousands of rounds.

But when I wanted a 20g the "SKBs" where Turkish replacements, not the Japanese guns with a century of history. I am sure they are great guns but I wasn't interested, they were priced like the Japanese guns had been. So I ended up with a Beretta 686 Sporting, an earlier one with an adjustable comb.

One thing about the O/U depends on where you shoot. Most of my shotgunning takes place where they expect you to pick up your own litter, so the auto is a bit of a PITA.

rob_s
01-05-2022, 09:26 AM
One thing about the O/U depends on where you shoot. Most of my shotgunning takes place where they expect you to pick up your own litter, so the auto is a bit of a PITA.

that's an interesting consideration. I kept thinking I was supposed to be picking things up at the ranges I shot at, but never really saw anything in terms of signs or rules, and found shells on the ground at every station, so just ass-you-me'd that I didn't need to be picking anything up.

The variable here is a new range. We shot at a new facility recently and I frankly didn't even consider it but in hindsight may have been "littering". Of course, their rules aren't helping... Sounds like they want me to clean up, but if I don't the penalty is that they keep my empties? :confused:

82386

mmc45414
01-05-2022, 10:35 AM
I kept thinking I was supposed to be picking things up at the ranges I shot at, but never really saw anything in terms of signs or rules...
We shot at a new facility recently and I frankly didn't even consider it but in hindsight may have been "littering". ... Sounds like they want me to clean up, but if I don't the penalty is that they keep my empties?

I think an inaccurate rule of thumb might be how much you paid for the targets. :cool:
When I pay $4 at WPAFB R&G (https://www.wrightpattfss.com/rod-gun-club) I expect to pick up my hulls, if I pay $9 at Blackwing (https://blackwingsc.com/outdoor-shotgun-sports/skeet/)there are hulls littered everywhere and they pay some young guy to pick them up. OTOH I have shot sporting clays at ranges where an auto is going to throw them down a hill that I would be in front of the firing line if I retrieved them, and would probably bust my ass trying to get back up.

As far as forfeiting your hulls, they are probably worthless if they are not AA or STS. But I do reload shotshells for skeet, so it is nice to have them stay in the gun.

rob_s
01-05-2022, 11:24 AM
I think an inaccurate rule of thumb might be how much you paid for the targets. :cool:
When I pay $4 at WPAFB R&G (https://www.wrightpattfss.com/rod-gun-club) I expect to pick up my hulls, if I pay $9 at Blackwing (https://blackwingsc.com/outdoor-shotgun-sports/skeet/)there are hulls littered everywhere and they pay some young guy to pick them up. OTOH I have shot sporting clays at ranges where an auto is going to throw them down a hill that I would be in front of the firing line if I retrieved them, and would probably bust my ass trying to get back up.

Interesting. I'm not familiar with that pricing structure (but maybe we're talking Sporting Clays vs some other game?). I think we were paying $0.48/bird at the facility referenced above. Our normal range(s) changes $0.50/bird and I've never picked up a hull there.


As far as forfeiting your hulls, they are probably worthless if they are not AA or STS. But I do reload shotshells for skeet, so it is nice to have them stay in the gun.
I meant that as a joke, in that they have zero value to me no matter what, and therefore if the "penalty" for not picking them up is that I don't get to keep them, then I'll just keep right on no picking them up...

mmc45414
01-05-2022, 11:52 AM
Interesting. I'm not familiar with that pricing structure (but maybe we're talking Sporting Clays vs some other game?).
Yeah, that was skeet (it is a lot cheaper).


I meant that as a joke, in that they have zero value to me no matter what, and therefore if the "penalty" for not picking them up is that I don't get to keep them, then I'll just keep right on no picking them up...
Yeah, I know. When I want to shoot my auto I generally shoot some inexpensive stuff I just buy in hulls I will throw away. So that is a huge PITA, picking them up just to put them in the trash...

Rick R
01-05-2022, 06:12 PM
Interesting. I'm not familiar with that pricing structure (but maybe we're talking Sporting Clays vs some other game?). I think we were paying $0.48/bird at the facility referenced above. Our normal range(s) changes $0.50/bird and I've never picked up a hull there.

The club I shoot most often at is a non-profit all volunteer “club” where you pick up your hulls on the skeet or trap field. Five stand is a raised platform with a roof and ejected hulls usually end up on the ground in front of the firing line where they get swept up with a magnet and disposed of as the volunteer running the course sees fit. The members rate for trap and skeet is $5.00 for 25 birds. Five stand is $8.00 for 25.

The two sporting clays venues I shoot most at are for profit ventures with employees who fill machines, pick up hulls and pull for newbies/single shooters. One place is $27/100 birds for members the other is $33. We occasionally (1-2 times per year) go to two locations that are @$65/100 which doesn’t include cart rentals or trapper tips. My wife and I have joked about becoming clay pigeon tourists after she retires.

Pistol Pete 10
01-05-2022, 06:15 PM
I have dedicated skeet and trap guns. Newest is a Browning 725 Sporting I bought for skeet and sporting clays, I have been shooting some trap with it and it works pretty well. I prefer skeet and sporting to trap so the sporting gun is what I bought. The 725 Sporting handles very well and has less felt recoil than any 12ga gun I've shot but it is kind of pricy if you are trying to save money. Almost any bird gun will do for skeet or sporting. Don't be afraid to shoot trap with it. You may be surprised. The real trap gun is pretty useless for anything else.

Cory
02-05-2022, 12:46 PM
While I wouldn't pick a 1301 Tactical for a dedicated clay gun, it absolutely works. I played a game with my 1187, 2 with the 1301. The last game, a buddy used my 1301 and I used his Browning Citori.

I liked the 1301 best. The sights were definitely busy, but the ghost ring and ears of ghe front sight actually made judging my lead easier as long as I stayed focused on the clay. I shot about the same, maybe a tad better with the 1301 surprisingly.

The 1301 was the lightest, shortest, and least recoiling gun. My buddy commented that he thought it would recoil harder because the gun was light, but it didn't. He did about the same as his Citori. We're casual clays people, but the gun worked.

83830838318383283833

rob_s
05-16-2022, 07:25 AM
Somewhat minor update to our progress…

Wife has now been consistently shooting about 65s, and I appear to have returned to my 80+ norm. Of course, all of this is on the “easy” courses…

This past weekend we went and stayed over at OK Corral for the night. Got up there Saturday afternoon, shot a round of clays on a near-empty course, and she shot a 65 while I shot an 80. Had drinks and dinner after, and then got up and shot the same course the next day. She shot a 65 and I shot an 81. Somewhat interesting, she was more consistent stage to stage, while I dropped more birds due to distractions (loud redneck kids, people running up on us in their carts while we were shooting, etc.). That’s on me, and I need to learn to stay in my own zone. I could have easily shot 85+ if I hit the birds I didn’t let get away due to bad mental prep.

We also tried our hand at the hard course, and didn’t hit shit. Those birds are hauling ass!

We also tried the super sporting field, and definitely struggled but I don’t know how much of that was format confusion vs actually being harder. I think its a combination of both.

Stopped to loo at the 5-stand setup and my Immediate takeaway was that just the two of us shooting 5-stand would be a great way to blow $300 in about 30-minutes (vs the 1.5-2 hours it takes us on the clays course…). With a larger group though, it could be a lot of fun.

We pretty much agreed that we seem to be at a point where we’ll need some instruction to progress. We are about topped out on instinct and prior training. If we want to shoot sanctioned events (and I do) they are on the harder courses and it won’t be fun to go shoot a 30.

Now I need to learn about the sporting clays traveling instructor world and figure out how we book some time with a pro. I think the facilities near us have trainers, but I feel like our time would be best spent with the highest quality/level of instructor.

Shotgun
05-16-2022, 12:10 PM
but I feel like our time would be best spent with the highest quality/level of instructor.

https://www.southfloridashootingclub.com/instructors

Brad Kidd is your man.

rob_s
05-08-2023, 06:39 AM
A little update and a request for some advice.

The update is that wife and I got to shoot sporting clays twice this past weekend. Well, me twice, and her once. Which will bring us to the request for advice below. Last time we shot was June of 2022 so it’s been a minute.

The good news is that my skills have seemingly not degraded at all. I can shoot a pretty consistent 85 on an “easy” course just about anywhere. Wife saw a slight degradation in score but not by much (peaked at 65 previously, shot a 60on Saturday). Given our infrequency I have to just be ok with not getting better. It’s frustrating but for now I have to be co tent wi5, and focus on, the togetherness aspect. I have no available time for lessons or more frequent practice, particularly given the 2-hour-plus-round-trip to the range. The entire thing becomes a 5-hour minimum endeavor when you figure a 2+ hours in the car, admin time, and 2 hours shooting. That’s not the best use of a 5 hour block for me right now.

Several things re-learned, and a few new things learned.

One thing I do need to figure out, moreso for her, is what 12 ga shells we can buy that are going to impart the least amount of recoil in her a300. The reason she didn’t shoot on Sunday is because she got too beat up on Saturday. I have to confess, I got pretty beat up on Saturday as well but not so much that I couldn't shoot on Sunday. Yes, technique is a factor, got it. Not what I’m asking about here. In addition to technique, I’d like to find the softest-shooting sporting shells I can so that in addition to working on technique we can also enjoy the hobby there we enjoy doing together.

Any advice there appreciated. I’m getting stuck in my own head ciphering velocity times mass times shot size…

And yes I can google, just thought I’d ask here too.

Caballoflaco
05-08-2023, 07:17 AM
rob_s what loads are y’all shooting now? 7/8oz loads at 1180ish are super light out of my 1301 and cycle fine, but I don’t have experience with a load that light in the A300.

rob_s
05-08-2023, 07:34 AM
rob_s what loads are y’all shooting now? 7/8oz loads at 1180ish are super light out of my 1301 and cycle fine, but I don’t have experience with a load that light in the A300.

Can’t recall what we shot day 1. This is what we were shooting day 2

Browning B193811228 Dove & Clay 12 Gauge 2.75" 1oz. #8

https://www.finfeatherfur.com/browning-b193811228-dove-clay-12-gauge-2-75-1oz-8-shot-25-rounds/

rob_s
05-08-2023, 07:53 AM
Here’s what is in the bag, I’m fair,y certain we had some federal 1170 stuff we shot on Saturday and def the browning 1290 stuff Sunday.

104457

mmc45414
05-08-2023, 10:27 AM
I’d like to find the softest-shooting sporting shells I can so that in addition to working on technique we can also enjoy the hobby there we enjoy doing together.
Your challenge will be what will work in the gun and what will be commercially available.
Most commercial 1oz loads crank up the velocity and do not really recoil less, both of your pictured examples show 1300fps or more.
Here (https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Shotshell/AA/AAL128)is an example of a 1oz load that is supposed to be 1180fps.
They will probably be difficult to find on a shelf, but an Ammoseek (https://ammoseek.com/shotgun-ammo?ikw=AAL128)shows some out there at a decent price (nice that ammo is not a hazmat shipment).
I am almost certain they would work, but have no personal experience with an A300. Pretty sure anything less than this would have to be reloaded (we do a bunch of 3/4oz for skeet, because they are soft and it saves money, shot is the most expensive component).

Pretty sure you know this, but be careful if you consider switching her to a 20g, most of the guns are enough lighter to negate any recoil reduction.


I have no available time for lessons or more frequent practice, particularly given the 2-hour-plus-round-trip to the range. The entire thing becomes a 5-hour minimum endeavor when you figure a 2+ hours in the car, admin time, and 2 hours shooting.
Sporting clays is great, many people say it is golf with guns, but that is a problem, it takes as long as golf. Consequently, I only do it once or twice a year. OTOH, we shoot skeet almost every week all summer long. It takes less time, we typically get there around five, shoot 100 targets, and are done by about 6:30-7:00. And since it doesn't take as much acreage there might be a closer place. The target presentations are consistent, so it is not as challenging as SC, but each round of 25 includes targets from two directions from eight positions on the field, including true pairs from four of them.

ETA:
Another idea might be to add some weight into the stock. These mercury filled things (http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/suppressors/index.htm#top) have an option that sounds like it threads on the end of the stock bolt.

rob_s
05-08-2023, 10:41 AM
there really isn't any sort of facility appreciably closer regardless of how much more boring we make the shooting part. I can pretty much guarantee that wife isn't going to participate in any of the standing-around shooting games. The cart, the scenery, etc. all play a part. Even if I dumb down the fun, the drive doesn't get much shorter. There's one new municipal range that's 30 min from work and 50 min from the house for a potential 80-minute total drive time at best. But the drive time, and the shorter shooting time, or something more boring doesn't make it more accessible right now.

but you're saying you spend 5pm-6:30/7pm to shoot 100 skeet? that's 1.5-2 hours of shooting time? that's how long it takes the two of us to shoot a round of clays. that doesn't seem like it's improving the time commitment anyway.

I ordered some of this to try, 1oz at 1170 at $8.21/box of 25 at time of order. will see how it goes next time we get back out there (in 2-10 months :( )
https://shopbfam.com/product/fiocchi-12sd1l8-shooting-dynamics-target-load-12-gauge-2.75-1-oz-8-shot-25-bx-10-cs

mmc45414
05-08-2023, 11:00 AM
Sounds like you got it figured out.

rob_s
05-08-2023, 11:19 AM
Sounds like you got it figured out.

not entirely, but I certainly know what we (wife) likes when it comes to shooting, and the limitations of our geography and calendar, as well as how long it takes to get from point-a-to-point-b and how much time we spend when we get there.

DDTSGM
05-08-2023, 11:38 AM
The Fiocchi you listed looks to be what we shot at the OSP course I took. Shot nice in my Browning and the other semi there. Got to admit, wearing just a tee shirt I started feeling them in the afternoon, around 225 rounds or so. Not bad, ready to shoot next day.

Fiocchi makes a low recoil, problem might be finding them in stock:

104468

https://www.brownells.com/ammunition/shotgun-ammunition/low-recoil-trainer-12-gauge-ammo/

https://www.bulkammo.com/bulk-12ga-ammo-12ga2-34trainer78oz8fiocchitrainer-250

rob_s
05-09-2023, 06:23 AM
The Fiocchi you listed looks to be what we shot at the OSP course I took. Shot nice in my Browning and the other semi there. Got to admit, wearing just a tee shirt I started feeling them in the afternoon, around 225 rounds or so. Not bad, ready to shoot next day.

Fiocchi makes a low recoil, problem might be finding them in stock:

104468

https://www.brownells.com/ammunition/shotgun-ammunition/low-recoil-trainer-12-gauge-ammo/

https://www.bulkammo.com/bulk-12ga-ammo-12ga2-34trainer78oz8fiocchitrainer-250

It appears that various “low recoil” trend around the same weight and velocity (7/8 oz coming at 1200fbs)w hi h should I part less rearward energy than a 1oz at 1170, but I’m concerned about cycling.

I’m going to try and find at least some sort of load in that weight and velocity to buy one box and try it.

Cory
05-09-2023, 08:29 AM
I play 5 stand (or a similar game called crazy quail) about once a month.

I buy Winchester Super Target, 1oz, 8 shot, 1180FPS when I see it. It's some of the softest recoil I can get with my 1301T.
104512

It is significantly better than the Fiocchi loads I've tried. I had a box of Fiocchi stuff that was 1 1/8oz, 8 shot, 1200FPS for a game last week. (Used an 1187. New feild had barrel length restrictions). It was alot harsher despite a small increase in velocity to account for the extra weight.

I basically go with 1oz, lowest velocity I can get most of the time. Shot size is more or less unimportant to me.

Redhat
05-09-2023, 04:55 PM
Maybe read up on some advice from lady shooters or better yet talk to some of them.

Also, there are padded shooting jackets and upgraded recoil pads.

rob_s
05-12-2023, 05:40 AM
Found a couple more things I'm gonna try. The Noble sport stuff says 1200 fps but also “low recoil” so seems worth a shot.

The B&P stuff is only 1160 fps. I'm guessing it won't cycle the gun but also worth a shot.

104625

rob_s
05-12-2023, 08:53 AM
I had a box of Fiocchi stuff that was 1 1/8oz, 8 shot, 1200FPS for a game last week. (Used an 1187. New feild had barrel length restrictions). It was alot harsher despite a small increase in velocity to account for the extra weight.

I basically go with 1oz, lowest velocity I can get most of the time. Shot size is more or less unimportant to me.

FWIW the Fiocchi I have on order is lighter and slower, so hopefully softer. It's 1 oz at 1170fps, which I think yields about 13% less recoil than the Fiocci load you mention and should be on par or even slightly softer than the Winchester you're shooting.

Presuming it cycles the gun, of course...

Cory
05-12-2023, 12:43 PM
FWIW the Fiocchi I have on order is lighter and slower, so hopefully softer. It's 1 oz at 1170fps, which I think yields about 13% less recoil than the Fiocci load you mention and should be on par or even slightly softer than the Winchester you're shooting.

Presuming it cycles the gun, of course...

Let me know what you think of it. Hopefully it cycles okay. I haven't had any issues with light loads in my 1301.

I honestly don't recall where I picked up the Fiocci I did. I was pressed to grab an extra box before the weekend and picked it up.