Progressive vs turret -- how versatile do I need to be?

[JAD]

I am thinking about a new setup.

Right now, I just shoot 9 and 45. I don't mind buying 9 factory at current prices but do mind .45, plus I enjoy shooting wadcutters more than other projos. At some point I could get back into loading precision .223, 7.5 schweitz, or an unexpected cartridge -- I'm like that, but I don't have a range or time at the moment -- and I could get back into volume .38 super.

I currently shoot almost nothing, but if I get my crap together I think a 500 round per month average is realistic. Someday 1k, but the horizon for going back to 2k is 10 years out.

One approach would be a 650 set up for .45, with an inexpensive single stage to be acquired if I get back into rifle.

The other would be a turret.

If I go the 650 route, I better love .45. I would dread a 9 conversion. I suppose I could always load 9 on the accessory single stage (the 650's purse dog), but that sounds kind of yuck.

If I go the turret route, it would be pokey, but I don't think I would have that much trouble keeping up with my diet.

[BehindBlueI's]

I've used a Lee turret for a long time. Maybe 10 years? I just keep a disc for each caliber I want to reload.

There's certainly quicker ways to reload, but I don't mind reloading. I sit in the garage with the radio on and crank out 100 or so at a time. It would be absolutely no problem to do 500 a month. You don't have to sit and do it all at once, if you get bored wander off and do something else.

[SLG]

Like BBI, I use my Lee Classic Turret alot. I just made 200 rds of .44 mag in about an hour. Enjoyable and easy, for 500 rds a month it is no sweat. A 550 would be faster and more versatile down the road, but I do love my LCT.

[Hauptmann]

Since you mentioned Dillon for your progressive, the more automation you add the harder and more expensive it becomes to convert from one caliber to another. I've said on other threads that the 550b is the Remington 870 of progressives, while the 650 is the Remington 11-87. One is faster, and the other one is easier to use, cheaper overall, and more reliable. I have used both, and realistically if you factor in all the tasks that need to be done to keep your assembly line going, you can reliably load at most 400 cartridges per hour on the 550b, and at most 600 cartridges per hour on the 650(that's pushing it). A turret press only loads one cartridge at a time, so you are looking at about half the speed of the 550b at the quickest. A friend of mine usually only loads about 100 handgun cartridges in a 45min period on his LCT.

One nice advantage to the turret and single stage presses is that they tend to have a tad more precision when seating the bullet depth on handgun cartridges. On a progressive, you have 4 or more die operations occurring with each pull of the lever. Some of those operations like the resizing, and case mouth flaring put stress on the top tool mount and can "slightly" increase seating depth in finished cartridges. About .005" at most(case lubing and non +P cases are less prone to this). I have never been concerned by this as my reloads are exceptionally more accurate than almost all factory ammo out there, but for the obsessive compulsive type that issue might be of concern.

For handgun cartridges, I would definitely go with a progressive. Less time loading, more time with other things in life. I prefer the 550b as it is plenty fast. In order to make the 650 measurably faster you need a case feeder and need to ensure that all the cases are prepped for the assembly line(swaged primer pockets).......this dramatically increases the cost and time outside of loading. As for rifle, it depends on how much you intend to shoot. I am a low volume rifle shooter since case prep is such a PITA with rifle cartridges, so I just use a single stage press for my .308 and .30-06.

[pablo]

I reload 9mm on a Square Deal and try to crank out everything I need in one or two marathon session a year. I can go into brain free mode and the progressive cuts down on potential errors. Once it's set up a 650 is very hard to have a catastrophic reloading error with.

[Mitch]

It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever load any pistol ammo on a single stage press again. I have no problems loading rifle ammo on a single stage, though. Especially if you don't crimp your rifle brass, I don't think a progressive press has near as much of an advantage with rifle ammo as it does with pistol ammo.

I think you could do absolutely everything you're wanting to on one 550. A 650 is not a bad idea, either. I wouldn't let the conversion from 9 to 45 scare me with that. I'd get it set up with a case feeder and load a few thousand rounds of ammo at a time. That way it's not like you're doing the conversion every week.

[MAP]

I have both a 550 and 650. Calibre changes on the 650 are very easy. I routinely change between 9mm and .223 on the 650. It only takes a few minutes. I do have separate tool heads for both which I would recommend. I currently shoot minimally 1K 9mm and 500 .223 each month. Either Dillon press will serve you well.

Mike

[Urban_Redneck]

I have a LockNLoad AP, I switch back and forth between 9 and 45, small primer/large primer in 10 minutes. I thought I would add a case feeder, but, I'm quite happy with the cyclic rate and reloading is more and more, my quiet time (case feeders make a racket).

[dbateman]

If you can swing it buy a 650, then add a few conversions latter on.

[JAD]

To be more clear, I won't run rifle progressive no matter what. If I go the 650 route I will use a separate single stage for rifle (maybe even a Sinclair : Wilson setup; I think that is shit-hot). The only possible conversion for the 650 would be 9 and .38 super, unless nyeti makes me start shooting revolvers. Cost is not a constraint. Hell yes I will have a case feeder.

I may just sell all my nines. Problem solved.

Two of my favorite curmudgeons have made the turret sound cool. How do y'all charge? Do you have a bench mounted measure or do you have it mounted on a PTE die? Is it case activated?

[dbateman]

Why would you not load rifle on a progressive press ?

[JAD]

Why would you not load rifle on a progressive press ?

Other than 5.56 I don't go through a lot, and it's hard to save a lot of money on that cartridge; what reloading I'll do for rifle will be small batch, very precise, and often neck sized.

[dbateman]

Fair enough, for a single stage press I recommend the Forster Co-Ax.
They very make straight ammo, about the only thing straghter are inline dies.
The Co-Ax is easy to use with the quick change dies and and the shell holder that fits most things.

I've used a few other single stage presses over the years but that's the one still mounted to my bench.

As far as the 650 goes, I just had a little look over on Dillon's site. You could buy two Squre Deal presses for around the same money as a 650 with a case feeder. They're a pretty good little press, they're auto indexing but don't have case or bullet feeders for them.
Quite a good little press for the money.

The T-7 turret that has come up a bit around here lately is a fine press as well, you can make very high quality ammunition on one of them. I'm not sure I'd want to load large quantities of handgun ammo on one.

Charging for me is mostly thrown through die, but I also have a beam scale and throw charges and trickle up to weight.
The scale trickler ect can be put anywhere I feel like.

[JAD]

Thanks DBa! The twin square deal did cross my mind.

[BehindBlueI's]

To be more clear, I won't run rifle progressive no matter what. If I go the 650 route I will use a separate single stage for rifle (maybe even a Sinclair : Wilson setup; I think that is shit-hot). The only possible conversion for the 650 would be 9 and .38 super, unless nyeti makes me start shooting revolvers. Cost is not a constraint. Hell yes I will have a case feeder.

I may just sell all my nines. Problem solved.

Two of my favorite curmudgeons have made the turret sound cool. How do y'all charge? Do you have a bench mounted measure or do you have it mounted on a PTE die? Is it case activated?

Bench mounted. The Lee doo-dad, verified by a digital scale. I used the beam scale until about 2 years ago. You just turn the dial, powder dumps into the little cup, pour little cup in funnel on pour-through die.

[SLG]

To be more clear, I won't run rifle progressive no matter what. If I go the 650 route I will use a separate single stage for rifle (maybe even a Sinclair : Wilson setup; I think that is shit-hot). The only possible conversion for the 650 would be 9 and .38 super, unless nyeti makes me start shooting revolvers. Cost is not a constraint. Hell yes I will have a case feeder.

I may just sell all my nines. Problem solved.

Two of my favorite curmudgeons have made the turret sound cool. How do y'all charge? Do you have a bench mounted measure or do you have it mounted on a PTE die? Is it case activated?

Don't know if I'm one of the referenced curmudgeons, but I use a Chargemaster for rifle loads with the T-7. On the lee turret, which I really just use for pistol ammo, I use the Lee Auto drum up top on one of the Lee powder through expander dies. So far, it works well. The auto disk also worked well for me, mounted the same way.

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh, and frankly for the volume you're talking about reloading a turret is plenty. I used to shoot 1500-ish reloads a month and kept myself fed with the turret with no real work. I really dig not having to do anything but swap the top and reset my powder measure to move from one caliber to the next. There are some calibers I'm just not loading many of at a time (.44 magnum/special, .45LC I may load 100 a run) and there's some I'll load 1k of (.45 ACP, .357 mag) before swapping.

Speaking strictly for myself, even though I can afford a "nicer" set up, I don't need the speed. I'm not taking shooting time to reload, I'm taking tv time or other general dick-around time and I *like* sitting there pulling the lever making stuff. The added complexity and more things to fiddle-fuck with and adjust and get right and to not break would just be a nuisance to me.

[ER_STL]

As both SLG and BehindBlueIs have stated, the LCT is a very solid press for casual to somewhat frequent loaders. I find my safe loading pace to be just over 200/hour and my LCT has over 15k rounds through it. I have the TV running for background noise while I'm loading and the time goes quickly. I used to load .38 as well and switching calibers was as simple as changing out turrets, moving the powder hopper and selecting the appropriate disk. I could do it in about a minute if I wanted to.

That being said, one of the bigger benefits of a progressive aside from an increase in your rate of production is the fact that one pull of the handle equals one loaded round once you get going. With a turret of course you pull four times to get one round. That matters to some people more than others and I'll admit that when I'm feeling lazy a 550 starts to look appealing... :)

[JAD]

For those using the lct or other non-progressive solutions, how do you approach priming? Offline, or do you use the lever prime or safety prime systems?

[BehindBlueI's]

For those using the lct or other non-progressive solutions, how do you approach priming? Offline, or do you use the lever prime or safety prime systems?

I've done both, but generally just use the lever prime.

[ER_STL]

Lee's Safety Prime is one of the must-have upgrades for the LCT in my opinion. It makes priming part of the overall decap and resize stage. If you end up going with the LCT, buy it through Kempf (https://kempfgunshop.com/Kempf_Kit_w/_Lee_Classic_Turret_Press_-90064Kit-6575.html) as they offer the right upgrades (and they drop Lee's craptastic scale).

[JAD]

Nice up, ER.

[SLG]

I didn't realize what it was called, but I use the safety prime. It looks cheezy and fraught with mishap, but mine works really smoothly and is very fast to use. I think the key is to use the left thumb.