Week 2: The 4567 Drill

[ToddG]

Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Week 2: The 4567 Drill
results may be posted until 11:59pm EDT on Monday 17-October-2011.

designed by Chris Edwards (Glock Professional, Inc. (http://glockprofessional.com)) and Todd Louis Green
Range: 7yd
Target: 6" circle (download pdf here (http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/6in-circ-1in-sq.pdf))
Start position: varies, see below
Rounds fired: 20

The 4567 was inspired by Gila Hayes’s “5×4″ drill and the various iterations thereof.

The drill is run four times, five rounds each, on a six inch circle, at seven yards. A shot timer is used to begin each string of fire. The four strings of fire are:


draw and fire 5 rounds from concealment, two-handed
draw and fire 5 rounds from concealment, strong hand only
from the ready position fire 5 rounds, weak hand only
draw and fire 5 rounds from concealment, two-handed (repeat of string 1)


For any shot outside of the 6″ circle, add 1 second to your time. Total the times (and penalties) for all four strings to determine your overall score:

Basic score total time with penalties is 4+5+6+7 = 22 seconds
Intermediate is 5+6+7 seconds = 18 seconds
Advanced is 6+7 = 13 seconds

This drill is also compatible with the Q-PT target (http://www.nationaltarget.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NT&Category_Code=PT.com) using the inner (white outline) center of mass circle.

[Al T.]

Looks like a good drill. Question on the scoring.


Basic score PAR time is 4+5+6+7 = 22 seconds
Intermediate PAR is 5+6+7 seconds = 18 seconds
Advanced PAR is 6+7 = 13 seconds

Understand the part about Basic = 22 seconds, I. = 18 seconds, A. = 13 seconds.

How does PAR (parts underlined and bold) work? Seems to my tiny mammal brain, that scores would be cumulative per shot string.

[Al T.]

*Lightbulb !*

Thanks Tom! :cool:

[ToddG]

Thanks, Tom! Very good question, Al. I'll make a change to the original post here as well as the description at pistol-training.com (http://pistol-training.com/drills/4567-drill).

[167]

So I am not exactly goo at this one either :) I have to slow way down to keep my hits in target.

String 1: 3.65
String 2: 6.92
String 3: 8.32 (-2)
String 4: 3.44

Total Time: 24.33 :(

Add this one to the list of things to work on.

[KeeFus]

Did this exercise today. First run was cold w/ my trusted G-17 w/ Heinie sights:

S1 - 3:41 (0)
S2 - 4:19 (1)
S3 - 4:53 (1)
S4 - 3:56 (1)

Total: 18:69

http://i.imgur.com/S0zhN.jpg

Second time was immediately following the first run w/ the G-17 again:

S1 - 3:37 (0)
S2 - 4:14 (0)
S3 - 5:24 (2)
S4 - 4:20 (0)

Total: 18:95

http://i.imgur.com/mjJ6z.jpg

ETA: Equipment: Sig-Tac vest; Federal Champion 9mm 115 gr; Blade Tech IDPA "Bobby McGee" holster.

I'm trying to transition to the M&P now that it will be my duty weapon. With my M&P 4.25 Pro I did bad enough that I stopped on the third string and just went back to basic marksmanship drills. I got very frustrated. Didn't think it would be that big a difference between the two (Glock v M&P). :mad: I sucketh!

Later on I began to do mag changes w/ the M&P...average about 1.8 and ran as high as 2.20.

[Little Creek]

First time cold.
G19
Glock night sights
115 WWB
Blade-Tech IDPA holster
concealed by vest
4.56
6.72
6.50
5.01
22.79
Good group

[Mr_White]

10/13/2011
Gen3 G34, stock except Ameriglo Defoor sights
AIWB, Blade-tech Nano (modified)
Closed front shirt

String 1: 2.66/1 out
String 2: 3.59/0 out
String 3: 3.71/0 out
String 4: 2.77/0 out
Raw Time: 12.73
Total Time: 13.73

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6052/6241598559_23acd941ee_z.jpg

I tried to post a pic of the target, but I am obviously doing something wrong. Huh.

Thank you Tom_Jones!

[KeeFus]

10/13/2011
Gen3 G34, stock except Ameriglo Defoor sights
AIWB, Blade-tech Nano (modified)
Closed front shirt

String 1: 2.66/1 out
String 2: 3.59/0 out
String 3: 3.71/0 out
String 4: 2.77/0 out
Raw Time: 12.73
Total Time: 13.73

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6052/6241598559_23acd941ee_z.jpg

I tried to post a pic of the target, but I am obviously doing something wrong. Huh.

Thank you Tom_Jones!

NICE!!!!

[Pennzoil]

M&P 9 FS
CCC Shaggy
T shirt - closed front

It was the first drill I did today.

1. 3.59
2. 6.57 -1
3. 5.35
4. 3.55

Total time 20.06

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7595/dsc00192nt.jpg

[Vinh]

Shot immediately after cold FAST test.
Forgot to print the target, so had to use a slightly smaller one.
HK45 under polo shirt.

1) 3.71
2) 5.56
3) 4.90 Two out that I can tell, there may be others!
4) 3.79

Raw time: 17.96
Adjusted time: 19.96 minimum, it looks like quite a few shots are missing

This is the kind of utterly grotesque performance that makes one consider finding a new hobby...

http://www.rawbrilliance.com/images/pt_forum_drills/drill_week_02.jpg

[Chris Rhines]

10/13/2011, shot at the NRA Range. Not cold, but this is the first and only time I ran the drill.

Smith and Wesson M&P Pro 9mm
Ready Tactical IDPA holster and magazine pouches
REI Softshell, open front cover garment

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/297200_2268309819869_1012283003_32528019_131462584 2_n.jpg

The concealed draw screwed me up much more than I expected - I only hit one draw in under 2 seconds. I'm reasonably pleased with the accuracy, though.

- Chris

[ToddG]

Penzoil -- You get a two second bonus for using a genuine Q-PT target. Come on, guys. I get royalties! :cool:

Chris R. -- You get a two second penalty for mixing up pistol-training.com and pistol-forum.com. They don't even sound similar!

[JV_]

I had a terrible run today, 19.5.

I need a lot more SHO/WHO work. This is a constant struggle for me.

[ToddG]

I had a terrible run today, 19.5.

Tomorrow you may get another chance. :cool:

[WyoXd]

Shot this four times to start off my practice session with my Gen4 17, Comp Tac paddle holster, and a Woolrich vest. Run #3 was my fastest and cleanest:

2.87 -1
4.21 -1
3.54
2.79 -1

13.41 raw
16.41 total

Concealment draws were a bugger due to 20+ mph winds right at my back and I found myself rushing my shots after a slow draw.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk

[ToddG]

Shot it tonight. First run was a 13.30 (dropped one point WHO). Best was a 12.12 (2.24, 3.80, 3.46, 2.62). I slowed down on the last 2H run because I knew I was well within the time and didn't want to blow it by losing a point.

I also turned in a blazing 11.74, but... I had a point out in the SHO string so I knew I had to push it on the last 2H string if I was still going to come in under 13. Made the time with a bit to spare but managed to drop another point for a total of 13.74, dammit.

No photos, but I hope to get video shooting it again tomorrow (well... later today, at this point).

[EmanP]

Can I get clarification on the WHO ready position? That's low ready correct?

[ToddG]

I'd say any legit ready position that didn't involve the gun being pointed at the target and/or have the arm at normal extension.

Ten of us ran this in Culpeper today and video of your intrepid Staff -- JV, LilLebowski, TCinVA, and me -- will be posted before the weekend is over. It won't be pretty...

[EmanP]

Thanks, tried it today but lost the results. Probably all for the better since it was a painful reminder that I've not practiced a concealed draw in a long long time. I'll have to settle for average. Also tried the week 1 drill in failing light w/ black on black sight against a black target and although I thought it sucked it wasn't that bad given conditions. Too bad that thread is over. I'll have to try this one again.

[fuse]

I require noob clarification.

For the SHO string, can one use one's weak hand to pull the shirt up and away? (coming for AIWB, personally)

Seems like if you're going to draw and shoot SHO, it would mean the weak hand is disabled or otherwise occupied and can't help with the draw.

[JV_]

For the SHO string, can one use one's weak hand to pull the shirt up and away? (coming for AIWB, personallyNo.

[ToddG]

During the Saturday get together of Staff and friends:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEgYlJqbYoI

12.94 raw time plus two misses (one during each of the 2H strings) equals 14.94 total.

[Bratch]

Prdator and I shot this tonight. We both were running closed front cover and AIWB which is our normal EDC gear.

Prdator shot a 11.02 plus 3 misses ( 2 WHO 1 2H) for a 14.02.
http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/bratch83/S4567.jpg

I shot a 13.93 plus 4 misses (2 WHO 2 SHO) for a 17.93.

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/bratch83/b4567.jpg

[JeffJ]

I shot this yesterday and ended up with a 23. something (my notebooks at home) I found this to be pretty freaking awful especially since I just shot 3 FAST drills for personal bests in the 7's. Apparently I though that lots of eye sprinting would be good when running the DOTW then let that theme prevail throughout the rest of my range session. It wasn't until after doing the 4567 and more than half of Jody's 99 drill that I was able to self-diagnose the eye sprinting and get myself back on track. I'm going to have to do this one again sometime this week in a feeble attempt at self-redemption.

[DocGKR]

I was finally able to squeeze in 2 hours of range time this morning using an RMR equipped G19 for all 215 shots fired. The bad news is that I blew my cold run on the Defoor Pistol Test #1 (http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/05/defoor-proformance-pistol-test-1.html), going over 2 sec (2.02 sec) on the draw and shoot 1 shot into the reduced A-zone. The Defoor Pistol Test #2 went better, as I scored a 28 (http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/05/defoor-proformance-pistol-test-2.html).

The good news is that I ran my best clean FAST drill with a G19 RMR, getting a 5.99.

The best clean time I had in four attempts at the Week 2 drill was 16.56 (3.11/4.88/4.96/3.61).

[EmanP]

Found the results. 2.86/3.87-1/4.34-1/2.96 = 16.03

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2648/25011047.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/25011047.jpg/)

Buddy of mine, TJ. 3.85/4.62-1/4.30-1/3.05 = 17.82 Didn't have another printed out circle so he used a used 5.5" repair center.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8651/tj3m.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/tj3m.jpg/)