2016 Primaries [Archive] - pistol-forum.com

JHC

02-18-2016, 10:49 AM

I'm all in for Rubio as I rank Defense spending and national security policy near the top of the list. I do not consider the sins of past or experimentation with comprehensive immigration reform to be a big deal at all. I don't rank immigration in general as a dire emergency to the republic however like Bush's guest worker program, something along the lines of verification, official legal status, back of the line for citizenship, perhaps perfunctory fines, and effective border controls with reform of the visa program are all reasonably doable.

If not for the demagogues and the virulent nativist streak running hot currently. Case in point (esp Coulter) http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/431503/notice-shes-not-one-us-attacks-haley

So up and down the list I think highly of Rubio and consider him an exciting, young Republican JFK like (image wise) figure that could have great success.

I've got major issues with the characters of the other leading candidates so after a promising start with a field full of talent IMO, I'm down to the last option.

Tamara

02-18-2016, 10:51 AM

Well, yeah, but we're kind of stuck with this group of clowns. Mainly because a good portion of the voters are clowns too.
Might as well enjoy the show.

Still disappointed that the Trump campaign did not accept Marko's idea for a slogan: "Trump '16: Fuck it, let the monkey fly the plane."

TheNewbie

02-18-2016, 11:04 AM

The fact trump is number one after his child like and vulgar behavior is disappointing. Clearly people are voting based of emotion vs logic. I'm a Cruz guy but anyone up there would be better than a leftist , and anyone would be better than Trump.

Joe in PNG

02-18-2016, 03:19 PM

Still disappointed that the Trump campaign did not accept Marko's idea for a slogan: "Trump '16: Fuck it, let the monkey fly the plane."

Coffee noser right there.

I'm convinced that half of Trump's supporters believe that The Donald will just pay off the national debt from his pocket, as do all of Bernie's supporters.

Glenn E. Meyer

02-18-2016, 05:42 PM

Bernie thinks Trump will pay off the debt if Bernie is elected? I'd like to see that. What happened to plan to mint a few coins in iridium for 13 trillion dollars each and use them to pay the debt.

All the candidates stink. Cruz wants to build 2000 more planes for the air force. An F-35 costs $100 million. So that's times 2000. And then there are the pilots, equipment, support staff, etc. Where's that money coming from?

LOKNLOD

02-18-2016, 09:25 PM

Bernie thinks Trump will pay off the debt if Bernie is elected? I'd like to see that. What happened to plan to mint a few coins in iridium for 13 trillion dollars each and use them to pay the debt.

Well, Trump is rich, and Bernie's platform does seem to be "fuck the rich and take their shit", so yeah...indirectly, Bernie seems to think Trump is going to help pay for it all.

Tamara

02-18-2016, 09:35 PM

Well, Trump is rich, and Bernie's platform does seem to be "fuck the rich and take their shit"...

The problem with that whole outlook on life is that "Rich" = "Anybody Who Has More Than Me".

From where I'm sitting, Bernie better get his rich ass to paying down the debt.

Jeep

02-19-2016, 02:24 PM

The problem with that whole outlook on life is that "Rich" = "Anybody Who Has More Than Me".

From where I'm sitting, Bernie better get his rich ass to paying down the debt.

Bernie is a millionaire and it probably would cost more than $5 million to buy an annuity that will pay the same amount as his House/Senate pension alone. So put his and his wife's net worth at between $5-10 million.

I'm not sure he has in mind paying down any debt, though. He wants to turn the US into Venezuela, and while Venezuela might have run out of food, medicine and beer, the daughter of good old Hugo Chavez is said to be worth over $5 billion, while Maduro, the current President for Life, is said to be worth over $1 billion. Since the US is a lot bigger than Venezuela, I figure if Sanders wins and becomes President for Life, his heirs ought to be worth, what--maybe $25 billion? Maybe more.

Of course, by then it will probably cost $1000 to buy a cup of coffee, assuming that there is any coffee to buy.

perlslacker

02-19-2016, 04:47 PM

The fact trump is number one after his child like and vulgar behavior is disappointing. Clearly people are voting based of emotion vs logic.

Trump is really cornering the market on highly-opinionated, low-information voters. This is the smart thing to do: given the kinds of media that people consume these days, it's the fastest-growing voter demographic out there.

ranger

02-19-2016, 07:18 PM

Wife and I just voted here in rural Northwest Georgia about 45 miles from the center of Atlanta. Love the opportunity to vote early and beat the crowds on election days. I can confirm that highly-opinionated voters are going for Trump based on who my says she voted for.

Hambo

02-20-2016, 09:40 AM

Still disappointed that the Trump campaign did not accept Marko's idea for a slogan: "Trump '16: Fuck it, let the monkey fly the plane."

That is hilarious, but you can insert any candidate name in there. With super delegates the whole game is rigged anyway. We've got the best government money can buy.

farscott

02-20-2016, 02:03 PM

Good article on the Democratic caucus in NV. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/20/us/politics/race-in-nevada-once-hillary-clinton-firewall-is-hotly-contested.html

Funnier article: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/nevada-democratic-caucus-sanders-clinton/470100/

GardoneVT

02-20-2016, 04:43 PM

Of course, by then it will probably cost $1000 to buy a cup of coffee, assuming that there is any coffee to buy.

Look at the bright side; we'll all be billionaires.

Perhaps that's what Sanders meant by "Enriching the Community".

Dagga Boy

02-20-2016, 04:59 PM

Unfortunately, people only want to talk about the problems with greed.....yet envy seems to be okay. We are doomed.

LOKNLOD

02-20-2016, 05:11 PM

Unfortunately, people only want to talk about the problems with greed.....yet envy seems to be okay. We are doomed.

I'm reminded that stealing and covetousness each got their own commandment.

Why do all the risky work of stealing from others when you can just vote and have the government do it for you? All this Bernie talk is just an extra chickenshitty version of "i want what you have but don't have to balls to try and take it, so I'm going to get the biggest bully on the block to do it for me".

Joe in PNG

02-20-2016, 09:45 PM

ralph

02-20-2016, 11:04 PM

The problem with that whole outlook on life is that "Rich" = "Anybody Who Has More Than Me".

From where I'm sitting, Bernie better get his rich ass to paying down the debt.

That's never going to happen. As Margaret Thatcher said " The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" This country isn't going to change course until the money runs out, and the EBT cards quit working. The bright side here, if you want to call it that, is, I don't think that day is too far off. With the Fed kicking the idea around of telling the banks to go to negative interest rates on saving accounts, ( which the banks see as unsecured loans) you can bet the endgame isn't too far off.

Edwin

02-21-2016, 07:11 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbxKwkiWAAAzibq.jpg

RoyGBiv

02-21-2016, 07:53 PM

Mitch

02-21-2016, 10:47 PM

So im gonna early-super-Tuesday-vote this week but im still undecided.

1.Cruz, because he's the guy I want, and ignore the gathering winds blowing behind Rubio.

2. Rubio, because it seems the stars are aligning for him as the favored Trump-beater.

3. Sanders, for the vote early, vote often, chance to vote against HRC.

In TX you can vote in either primary.

??? 1, 2, or 3 ??

If you go number 3 you get to vote against Hillary at least once, possibly twice. Just sayin'.

SeriousStudent

02-21-2016, 10:51 PM

So im gonna early-super-Tuesday-vote this week but im still undecided.

1.Cruz, because he's the guy I want, and ignore the gathering winds blowing behind Rubio.

2. Rubio, because it seems the stars are aligning for him as the favored Trump-beater.

3. Sanders, for the vote early, vote often, chance to vote against HRC.

In TX you can vote in either primary.

??? 1, 2, or 3 ??

I am pondering the same conundrum. I voted for the Hildebeast in the 2008 primary, but only as a vote against Obama.

I did go home afterwards, and take a shower in alcohol hand sanitizer. I also had a prescription anti-emetic on hand as well.

Joe in PNG

02-21-2016, 10:57 PM

I'd say that it would be better to nail down your own guy than to play games with the other party candidate.

perlslacker

02-21-2016, 11:53 PM

So im gonna early-super-Tuesday-vote this week but im still undecided.

1.Cruz, because he's the guy I want, and ignore the gathering winds blowing behind Rubio.

2. Rubio, because it seems the stars are aligning for him as the favored Trump-beater.

3. Sanders, for the vote early, vote often, chance to vote against HRC.

In TX you can vote in either primary.

??? 1, 2, or 3 ??

Think of the apoplectic fit that Hillary would throw if she lost a big state like Texas.

Do it. You know you want to.

Tamara

02-22-2016, 12:05 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbxKwkiWAAAzibq.jpg

Jeb will not be going to space today.

RoyGBiv

02-22-2016, 12:07 AM

I am pondering the same conundrum. I voted for the Hildebeast in the 2008 primary, but only as a vote against Obama.

I did go home afterwards, and take a shower in alcohol hand sanitizer. I also had a prescription anti-emetic on hand as well.

You didn't make this decision any easier... but thanks for helping me feel less alone. ;) :cool:

RoyGBiv

02-22-2016, 12:12 AM

Think of the apoplectic fit that Hillary would throw if she lost a big state like Texas.

Do it. You know you want to.

I do... I really do.

Here's the hardest part.... doing so would require me to hand my photo ID to one of the nice ladies at the poll, possibly a neighbor, and ask them for a Democratic ballot. I'm not sure I could do that without trying to explain myself. The awkwardness keeps replaying in my minds eye. Worse than the first time I asked a girl on a date.

LOKNLOD

02-22-2016, 12:28 AM

I do... I really do.

Here's the hardest part.... doing so would require me to hand my photo ID to one of the nice ladies at the poll, possibly a neighbor, and ask them for a Democratic ballot. I'm not sure I could do that without trying to explain myself. The awkwardness keeps replaying in my minds eye. Worse than the first time I asked a girl on a date.

I think I'd rather ask the pastor's wife for a hand job in front of the congregation than publicly admit voting democrat. :shudder:

Joe in PNG

02-22-2016, 12:32 AM

You didn't make this decision any easier... but thanks for helping me feel less alone. ;) :cool:

It's a bit like an ironic tattoo- kind of funny for a week or so, but then, there it is, and you're kind of stuck with it.

Drang

02-22-2016, 01:07 AM

I do... I really do.

Here's the hardest part.... doing so would require me to hand my photo ID to one of the nice ladies at the poll, possibly a neighbor, and ask them for a Democratic ballot. I'm not sure I could do that without trying to explain myself. The awkwardness keeps replaying in my minds eye. Worse than the first time I asked a girl on a date.

This is the first argument I've heard in favor of Washington's 100% mail-in-ballot system.

Of course, here in Pugetopolis they're more likely to give you the hairy eyeball for voting Republican&.

*Although Seattle is the birthplace of the Tea Party Movement.

farscott

02-22-2016, 05:28 AM

Let's see-
1) Trump won SC- so, unless he does something really, really stupid, he's probably going to be the Rep. candidate.
2) Bush is out- he was pretty much doomed since 2000 anyway.
3) Hillary pulled off a win in Nevada- this will be interesting. If she can pull off SC too, she just might be able to get some momentum going.

Unless the polls are really wrong, Secretary Clinton will cruise to victory in SC as she is expected to receive approximately 65% of the vote per fivethirtyeight.com. Same for Georgia and Texas. It appears she will be the Democratic nominee unless she is indicted -- and maybe even if indicted.

The Republican race is down to Trump and Senator Rubio. The party establishment wants the latter, but primary voters seem to want the former. Texas going for Senator Cruz will just help Trump in the long slog to the convention, and the Republican party establishment will NOT support Senator Cruz.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ted-cruz-has-a-huge-math-problem/

RoyGBiv

02-22-2016, 08:43 AM

The Republican race is down to Trump and Senator Rubio. The party establishment wants the latter, but primary voters seem to want the former. Texas going for Senator Cruz will just help Trump in the long slog to the convention, and the Republican party establishment will NOT support Senator Cruz.
As much as it pains me, I believe this is a correct assessment.

Glenn E. Meyer

02-22-2016, 11:21 AM

Voting for Bernie in the TX primary has appeal as I said before because Hillary is an existential threat to the RKBA. I don't think Sanders is such. While he has said that he supports an AWB now and changing the law suit bill, I don't seem him going to against guns if he was president. Of course, who knows.

However, on the Democratic ballot - http://www.txdemocrats.org/party/2016-ballot-referenda

there is this item:

REFERENDA ITEM #5 ON CAMPUS CARRY

Should the Texas Legislature allow each public institution of higher education (not only private universities) to opt out of the ability to carry guns on campus?

It would be nice for this to get fewer votes.

As far as Cruz - if the candidate I think he has no chance of national victory. Trump has the better chance.

Josh Runkle

02-22-2016, 12:43 PM

As far as Cruz - if the candidate I think he has no chance of national victory. Trump has the better chance.

I don't know if I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying you think trump has a better chance of winning against a democrat than Cruz does?

The votes that Trump will steal from the democrats will pale in comparison to the votes he will lose from Republicans.

Nearly half of the people in this thread and ones like it have already stated that they won't vote for Trump even if it means losing to Hilary.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your sentence, or you have a different opinion? Please share.

ffhounddog

02-22-2016, 12:56 PM

I am just tired of bible thumpers. There is this thing of separation of church and state that has been muddied alot. Also I do not see Cruz getting the votes like some people think. I also do not like that before Cruz decided to run he was hitting on dark skin ladies. This is from first hand sources. This was in his first 2 years. Also I am tired of lawyers.

Glenn E. Meyer

02-22-2016, 12:57 PM

Ok - I think that faced with Hillary vs. Trump, it would be suicidal for the RKBA to sit it out or vote for Clinton. While Trump seems a touch wacky, Congress can probably buffer too much craziness. However, a war of guns would be off the table. Hillary would take a victory as a signal to attack all Republican positions, esp. on guns. Now Congress might stop her. However, you can bet on SCOTUS appointments (even if 'moderate') that would lead to overturning of Heller and McD or at best strong support for 'reasonable restrictions' that would affect many state laws.

I cannot see voting for Hillary under any circumstance. She is has corrupt as any.

Now, Cruz is not attractive to me, so I can only speak to that. But I have the impression that he would only appeal to hard core conservatives. I see his supporters consistently ranting about Planned Parenthood and gay marriage as the keys to being a true Conservative. Frankly, I don't give a crap about a President who wants to be King of the Federal Crotch police. Getting a good economy and defending the country are more important to me.

Cruz's narrow focus will cause him to lose. Of course, this opinion is worth what you paid for it. Yes, true Conservatives want such a focus but many don't.

I think Hillary will be defined as the prime candidate for liberal women and minorities. That might cause blue collar democrats to migrate to Trump but Cruz may not be attracted to them

If your greatest accomplishment in the Senate is ranting about Planned Parenthood, doesn't make you a great national candidate.

Thus, I see Trump garnering antiestablishment folks and peeling off voters from some Democratic segments. I don't think Cruz does.

Would Trump do crazy things - does he mean his rhetoric as compared to using it as a media strategy to destroy his opponents - that's in the entrails of a goat to determine.

I also am not comfortable with many candidates proclaiming their faith. It's just PR for most. Yeah, I really believe that they read scripture in morning and feel a warm glow inside them. Also, those driven by such can lack a pragmatic attitude. GWB thought he had a divine mission. When you have one of those and the divine mission goes South, you are unable to disengage from it and rethink your actions.

farscott

02-22-2016, 03:14 PM

I don't know if I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying you think trump has a better chance of winning against a democrat than Cruz does?

The votes that Trump will steal from the democrats will pale in comparison to the votes he will lose from Republicans.

Nearly half of the people in this thread and ones like it have already stated that they won't vote for Trump even if it means losing to Hilary.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your sentence, or you have a different opinion? Please share.

I am going to explain my logic. I live in Alabama, and Alabama is going to vote for the Republican nominee, no matter his name. As such, my vote for President is essentially meaningless in having an impact on this race. But my vote might make a difference in the next several races if I vote for a third party as I firmly believe that other than a few social issues, like guns and abortion, both parties are about buying votes with other people's money. While the USA has pretty much always used a two-party system, the two parties have not always been the same. I believe the Republican party is ready or ripe to splinter into two pieces, one concerned with finances and freedoms and the other concerned with religion. I am interested in supporting the former and wanting to see the latter end up in the dustbin of history. A party concerned with protecting liberties while not spending everyone's money and staying out of everyone's bedroom and women's bodies would do very well with many current Republicans and independents. As such, I will be looking at smaller parties to see if one can benefit from my vote in the general election by getting enough votes in aggregate to get federal funding.

Joe in PNG

02-22-2016, 03:29 PM

The problem with the 3+ party system is that often times, the smaller party gets more of a say because they will be needed to form a government.
Thus, splitting the Repubs into two parties- say, "Libertarian" and "Religious"- would likely wind up with the Libertarians caucusing with the Religious in order to form a majority. Now they have to keep the Religious happy, or they will split off.
For a good example of this in action, ponder the Aussie Labor/Green party coalition of just a few years ago.

Edwin

02-22-2016, 05:22 PM

http://youtu.be/YlptgqP_PEA

RoyGBiv

02-22-2016, 11:24 PM

http://youtu.be/YlptgqP_PEA

I am just tired of bible thumpers. There is this thing of separation of church and state that has been muddied alot. Also I do not see Cruz getting the votes like some people think. I also do not like that before Cruz decided to run he was hitting on dark skin ladies. This is from first hand sources. This was in his first 2 years. Also I am tired of lawyers.
This reformed Yankee Jew completely understands the concern over religious overtones. I'll try to expand on a real keyboard tomorrow, but I am completely unworried about Ted promoting the Nativity over Chanukah. A room full of Tea Party bible thumpers put that worry to rest a few years ago.

farscott

02-25-2016, 06:12 AM

Great article on how the Republican party responds if Trump gets the nomination. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/will-conservatives-mount-a-third-party-challenge-if-trump-is-the-nominee/470499/

Joe Scarborough declared on Morning Joe, “I think Haley Barbour and a lot of the Republican leaders would much rather Hillary Clinton be President of the United States than have Donald Trump represent them as a Republican.” And it is hard to imagine any die-hard Bush loyalists supporting Trump after his attacks on Jeb and George. Indeed, it is easy to imagine them delighting in denying Trump the White House.

A lot of Republicans are going to start claiming that we must rally to the nominee, no matter who he is. I know for certain a large number of Trump supporters will not rally to a Cuban. I will not rally to Trump. If Trump is able to get the nomination, the Republican Party will cease to be the party in which I served as an elected official. It will not deserve my support and will not get it if it chooses to nominate a pro-abortion liberal masquerading as a conservative, who preys on nationalistic, tribal tendencies and has an army of white supremacists online as his loudest cheerleaders.

Glenn Beck declared, “I know that I won't go to the polls. I won't vote for Hillary Clinton and I won't vote for Donald Trump. I just won't. And I know a lot of people that feel that way.”

I should add that neither could I vote in good conscience for Hillary Clinton or any of the other Democrats running for president, since they oppose many of the things I have stood for in my career as a conservative — and, in the case of Mrs. Clinton, because I consider her an ethical wreck. If Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton were the Republican and Democratic nominees, I would prefer to vote for a responsible third-party alternative; absent that option, I would simply not cast a ballot for president.

BaiHu

02-25-2016, 09:22 AM

Great article on how the Republican party responds if Trump gets the nomination. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/will-conservatives-mount-a-third-party-challenge-if-trump-is-the-nominee/470499/
TL;DR, but if your quotes are an indication that the Republicans are upset that Trump could break the party, then I'll ask them 3 rhetorical questions:

1) how is it so fragile?
2) if the Republicans are/were such stalwart conservatives, that could sell conservatism, then how come they haven't been able to run a conservative since Reagan?
3) how come Cruz & Rubio combined cannot beat Trump in Nevada?

JV_

02-25-2016, 09:27 AM

3) how come Cruz & Rubio combined cannot beat Trump in Nevada?But they could have in the prior states. Momentum does matter here.

BaiHu

02-25-2016, 09:49 AM

But they could have in the prior states. Momentum does matter here.
That's pretty lame dude. The only state Trump lost was the one he openly wanted to lose, Iowa. If Trump is so horrible and so not what conservatives want, then how come the gang of 15 other candidates plus the media couldn't hold him down.

Most conservatives I know only want 2 things from the government:

1) a safe place to live
2) job opportunities

Most conservatives I know could care less about the social conservative (socon) issues Republicans squawk about. If Trump says, just once, that he couldn't give a shit about social conservative issues because it's a state's right issue, he might just make it for 2 terms.

Libertarian/Conservatives, like me, are so tired of the micromanaging bullshit that both parties engage in that I'm so glad Trump is soiling the field.

We have 3 choices:

1) a Democrat gets in and finishes the job Obama started in under 4 years and thereby destroys what was left of this country for decades.
2) a Republican gets in like Rubio, that just slows the above by a year or so.
3) Trump gets in and puts everyone on their toes. At worst, they'll block him every step of the way and the government will be so busy fighting itself that it'll leave the citizenry alone or he'll rally everyone, because he has a clue and a mandate from the true disenfranchised middle class. If so, then he'll pull us out of this nose dive.

Notice how I omit Cruz, and it's not because I don't like him, rather it's because he's the guy everyone thought could rile up some support and change DC. He obviously doesn't have it yet and given the changing social landscape over the nation, I don't think his socon values help him.

JV_

02-25-2016, 09:57 AM

If Trump is so horrible and so not what conservatives want, then how come the gang of 15 other candidates plus the media couldn't hold him down.Trump's appeal as an FU candidate to the GOP is stronger than his democrat policies.

The people you know or claim to be conservatives, and what they want, does not mirror mine. Their list is far greater than 2 items.

I do agree that Cruz has been somewhat disappointing.

BaiHu

02-25-2016, 10:04 AM

Trump's appeal as an FU candidate to the GOP is stronger than his democrat policies.

The people you know or claim to be conservatives, and what they want, does not mirror mine. Their list is far greater than 2 items.

I do agree that Cruz has been somewhat disappointing.
I would agree that there is a longer list, but the two I mentioned are the only ones NEEDED, IMO, in order to start wresting control of the government for, by and behalf of the people.

2A is covered under the 1st concern and the 1st and 2nd concerns also cover the BS social engineering and abuse of foreign workers, whether they be legal or illegal. I think that's why Trump is so strong, because he adheres to a KISS principal.

I agree with you on Cruz, too-sad.

JV_

02-25-2016, 10:09 AM

RoyGBiv

02-25-2016, 10:32 AM

Cruz's disappointing appeal and marketing may have been foreshadowed in how he got elected in 2012.

He didn't win his primary, the Lt. Govorner did. It was 45 to 34. Because it was too close, it sparked a runoff election. The turnout for the runoff vote was pretty bad and the folks that did show up where far more committed and ideological - which is the bunch that favors Cruz.
I don't consider myself ideological. Dewhurst (Cruz' primary opponent for Senate) wouldn't know a "firm position" unless he was tied (literally) to it.
Before Cruz it had been a while since I last voted FOR a candidate. I did it again today. Just couldn't pull the trigger for Sanders. Or Rubio.

All the whining about Trump being a liberal Democrat evaporates if he wins the nomination. Trump will be a FAR better President than either Clinton or Sanders. Screw the idealistic "my party left me" bullshit. You have to play the hand you're dealt. Life with President Trump trumps life with President Socialist / Kleptocrat.

BaiHu

02-25-2016, 10:51 AM

...All the whining about Trump being a liberal Democrat evaporates if he wins the nomination. Trump will be a FAR better President than either Clinton or Sanders. Screw the idealistic "my party left me" bullshit. You have to play the hand you're dealt. Life with President Trump trumps life with President Socialist / Kleptocrat.

Couldn't agree more.

perlslacker

02-25-2016, 11:22 AM

I'll address these point-by-point, if I may.

1) how is it so fragile?

The Republican party is no longer a "big tent" party. There used to be all different kinds of Republicans: there were moderate industrial-state Republicans like Gerald Ford, libertarian Republicans like Barry Goldwater, etc. All were welcome. Now, the party is so concerned with ideological purity that anyone who doesn't toe the incredibly rigid party line gets shouted out of any national-level conversation. Demographics in this country are changing, and that party line doesn't play as well as it used to.

The only viable candidates that the Republican establishment can field nowadays are either milquetoast nothings who happen to have connections (Jeb) or rigid, yet equally-bland ideologues like Cruz. Combine that with a voter base that has been losing position on the economic totem pole over the past couple decades (white males w/ no college education) that is looking for someone to blame, and conditions are ripe for a bombastic demagogue like Trump to sweep in and tell them that it's all the immigrants' fault.

An additional factor is that the campaign finance system has changed. Once upon a time, candidates would drop out when they ran out of money. Nowadays the tap stays on a lot longer than it used to, so lower-performing candidates can stay in longer. Example: Kasich and Carson are still in the race. In the primary results I've seen, Trump has yet to win a majority of primary votes; he's only won a plurality. Having so many other candidates in the race tends to dilute the non-Trump voter base.

2) if the Republicans are/were such stalwart conservatives, that could sell conservatism, then how come they haven't been able to run a conservative since Reagan?

Because the definition of what a "conservative" is has changed. See my previous answer. Reagan would get absolutely destroyed in a national Republican primary in the present day.

People have canonized Reagan as the One True Prophet of conservative ideology but, like all nostalgia, they tend to either ignore or forget a lot of things that don't fit their image of the Good Old Days.

3) how come Cruz & Rubio combined cannot beat Trump in Nevada?

What do you mean "combined?" Like, they form a Voltron to defeat him? That's not how elections work. Actually if you add their votes together from Nevada they do beat Trump.

LockedBreech

02-25-2016, 01:20 PM

All the whining about Trump being a liberal Democrat evaporates if he wins the nomination. Trump will be a FAR better President than either Clinton or Sanders. Screw the idealistic "my party left me" bullshit. You have to play the hand you're dealt. Life with President Trump trumps life with President Socialist / Kleptocrat.

I respectfully disagree. Trump is a carnival sideshow of a person. He acts like a child who constantly wants more attention. He has made overtly, unapologetically racist and sexist comments on multiple occasions. He appears to change his views based on popularity and controversy, not any central conviction. The idea of that man representing my nation on trade agreements, international disputes, or as a wartime Commander in Chief chills me to the bone. I think he's unquestionably the worst-case-scenario candidate.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BaiHu

02-25-2016, 01:52 PM

TL;DR, but if your quotes are an indication that the Republicans are upset that Trump could break the party, then I'll ask them 3 rhetorical questions:

I said they were rhetorical :D

I'll address these point-by-point, if I may.

The Republican party is no longer a "big tent" party. <SNIP>

The only viable candidates that the Republican establishment can field nowadays are either milquetoast nothings who happen to have connections (Jeb) or rigid, yet equally-bland ideologues like Cruz....looking for someone to blame, and conditions are ripe for a bombastic demagogue like Trump to sweep in and tell them that it's all the immigrants' fault.

In the primary results I've seen, Trump has yet to win a majority of primary votes; he's only won a plurality. Having so many other candidates in the race tends to dilute the non-Trump voter base. <SNIP>

Because the definition of what a "conservative" is has changed. See my previous answer. Reagan would get absolutely destroyed in a national Republican primary in the present day.

People have canonized Reagan as the One True Prophet of conservative ideology but, like all nostalgia, they tend to either ignore or forget a lot of things that don't fit their image of the Good Old Days.

What do you mean "combined?" Like, they form a Voltron to defeat him? That's not how elections work. Actually if you add their votes together from Nevada they do beat Trump.

I don't disagree with your sentiments, but I disagree with a few points to one degree or another.

1) I don't think there is a place for 'big tent' politics anymore. The internet, ie modern informational flow/focus, has made people believe there are more people that share their opinion and therefore they look to create a new party/ideology vs pushing the party that most likely supports their views by getting 'inside the tent'. Does that make sense? A perfect example of this phenomenon is how people think the LGBT(LMNOP) community is a much larger percentage of the population than it really is (http://www.gallup.com/poll/183383/americans-greatly-overestimate-percent-gay-lesbian.aspx).

2) On the viable candidate situation, I sort of agree up to a point. I think I've said this before somewhere in the forum that Obama has opened the doorway for a 'Hitler-like candidate'. Meaning, the pendulum is ripe for a swing in the other direction. Do I think Trump is Hitler? No. So let's take his ego, bombastic nature, or whatever slurs people throw at him, that can easily be attributed to any other egomaniac running for president (they just hide it), and put them aside for the moment. I think he has an ego large enough to believe he can 'right' the corporation known as the USA. I also think he, unlike the others, is uniquely qualified to do such a thing precisely b/c he is a pathological egomaniac that has still gotten some amazing projects done all over the world. He has chosen the right people to handle everything from janitorial services all the way up to high stakes deal making in countries that 'don't like us'.

3) The dilution of the primaries is precisely a Republican party issue. They are so fractured and at the same time so scared of Trump upsetting the apple cart that they didn't know who the conservative voter would actually find appealing enough to battle Trump. We're 8? debates in as of tonight and we still have 5 candidates? This is an abject failure of the Republican party leadership/establishment. For chrissakes, at least the Democrats know that they're either an open socialist or a closet socialist party and have the 2 candidates to prove it.

4) The definition of a conservative hasn't changed, the Republican party has changed from a party of opposition to the Democrats to a party of loose affiliation that just wants to share 51 or 49% of the gov't spending depending on the political winds. As Rush said a while back, the Republican party is just the salesman of socialism to the 'conservative base' or something of that nature.

5) Wholeheartedly agree on the nostalgia part, but Reagan still is the closest president we have had to a conservative in my lifetime (41). Let's also not forget that we were truly a society that had zero PC crap filling up the airwaves. Back then we could name or enemies and no one was so damn thin skinned. I give you Don Rickles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZblPwNLH6hg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3kJ7VPJnmI

6) I mean by percentage points, Trump just beat Cruz/Rubio combined at 45.9% (Trump) vs 45.3% (Rubio/Cruz)

JV_

02-25-2016, 02:11 PM

6) I mean by percentage points, Trump just beat Cruz/Rubio combined at 45.9% (Trump) vs 45.3% (Rubio/Cruz)

I don't view this as a Trump vs. Other 2. It's Trump vs. Everyoen Else. I see it this way because Trump isn't gaining the supporters of the departed, if NV is an anomaly.

I think there's merit to the talk that he's topped out. In SC the Other 3 (Bush, Kasich, Carson) got 22% of the vote.

Glenn E. Meyer

02-25-2016, 02:18 PM

It's very simple. The GOP establishment are willing to commit RKBA suicide for us in order to keep their fingers in the money pot or push their Holy Joe Crotch police agendas.

Hillary is an existential threat to the RKBA. With her expect 8 years of unrelenting acts on the 2nd Amend. through legislation, executive actions and SCOTUS nominations.

I'm not willing for that to happen because bunch of rich DBs in mansions or Biblical Zealots are having a hissy fit.

JHC

02-25-2016, 02:27 PM

It's very simple. The GOP establishment are willing to commit RKBA suicide for us in order to keep their fingers in the money pot or push their Holy Joe Crotch police agendas.

I didn't understand this part. The GOP "establishment" is who has preserved and expanded the RKBA for some decades. The Libertarian Party didn't. I'm not tracking.

BaiHu

02-25-2016, 02:28 PM

I don't view this as a Trump vs. Other 2. It's Trump vs. Everyoen Else. I see it this way because Trump isn't gaining the supporters of the departed, if NV is an anomaly.

I think there's merit to the talk that he's topped out. In SC the Other 3 (Bush, Kasich, Carson) got 22% of the vote.

We soon shall see. I think as it becomes a 2-3 guy race: Trump, Cruz and Rubio, I think we'll see exactly how it all shakes out. I'll be interested to see it.

It's very simple. The GOP establishment are willing to commit RKBA suicide for us in order to keep their fingers in the money pot or push their Holy Joe Crotch police agendas.

Hillary is an existential threat to the RKBA. With her expect 8 years of unrelenting acts on the 2nd Amend. through legislation, executive actions and SCOTUS nominations.

I'm not willing for that to happen because bunch of rich DBs in mansions or Biblical Zealots are having a hissy fit.

Can I get an amen and a hallelujah? LOL! I can't like this post enough.

JV_

02-25-2016, 02:31 PM

...I think we'll see exactly how it all shakes out. I'll be interested to see it.Yep. I just hope we don't end up with another Mitt Romeny problem where enough people stay home to hand it to the democrats.

BaiHu

02-25-2016, 02:39 PM

Yep. I just hope we don't end up with another Mitt Romeny problem where enough people stay home to hand it to the democrats.
That's why I feel like no matter who is the nominee, we as Republicans/libertarians/conservatives, need to vote for them and get them in office and end the democratic tyranny.

JV_

02-25-2016, 02:46 PM

Glenn E. Meyer

02-25-2016, 02:52 PM

JHC - what I mean is that they are willing to let Hillary win in order to keep themselves in party power.

As far as the GOP establishment expanding gun rights - that's illusory. At best, they have maintained a steady state. I could go through a list of GOP fails on the RKBA. For instance, both GWB and Mitt supported a renewal of the AWB. It's going bye bye due to the make up of the Congress was not an expansion.

The Great God Ronnie did not have an expansive agenda as CA governor, president or ex-president.

Here's a GOP dude for you: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/how-a-florida-republican-challenged-the-gun-lobby/470661/

Joe Straus (who is running advertisements as a true conservative) was notorious for block TX campus carry.

Bob Dole blocked Newt's attempt to roll back the AWB way back when. Look up George Pataki who signed (at this time) the strictest gun laws in NYS.

I could go one.

Peally

02-25-2016, 03:49 PM

We share the same potential problem as the democrats. I suspect Hillary, assuming Biden doesn't jump in, will cause a lot of their people to stay home too.

The winner becomes the one who has fewer people that stay home.

When it boils down to things like voting for Trump vs Hillary, it's hard to gather up enough care for most people to waste the time voting for either tard.

RoyGBiv

02-25-2016, 04:39 PM

I respectfully disagree. Trump is a carnival sideshow of a person. He acts like a child who constantly wants more attention. He has made overtly, unapologetically racist and sexist comments on multiple occasions. He appears to change his views based on popularity and controversy, not any central conviction. The idea of that man representing my nation on trade agreements, international disputes, or as a wartime Commander in Chief chills me to the bone.

Perhaps. Still better than Hillary though...
I'm in the import business, so, my ass is on the line if Trump makes China pay for The Wall too..
Still like him better than Hill or Bern. Not much of a hurdle though.

Christie was my "absolutely not" guy. Glad he's gone.

Joe in PNG

02-25-2016, 04:47 PM

When it boils down to things like voting for Trump vs Hillary, it's hard to gather up enough care for most people to waste the time voting for either tard.

Of the three Big Government loving statist (Bern, Hil, and Hair), I'd have to go for Trump. His statism is more of an "American" statism, if you know what I mean.

Joe in PNG

02-25-2016, 05:06 PM

Time for a Hunter S. Thompson quote:

We've come to a point where every four years this national fever rises up — this hunger for the Savior, the White Knight, the Man on Horseback — and whoever wins becomes so immensely powerful, like Nixon is now, that when you vote for President today you're talking about giving a man dictatorial power for four years. I think it might be better to have the President sort of like the King of England — or the Queen — and have the real business of the presidency conducted by... a City Manager-type, a Prime Minister, somebody who's directly answerable to Congress, rather than a person who moves all his friends into the White House and does whatever he wants for four years. The whole framework of the presidency is getting out of hand. It's come to the point where you almost can't run unless you can cause people to salivate and whip each other with big sticks. You almost have to be a rock star to get the kind of fever you need to survive in American politics.
from "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72"

JHC

02-25-2016, 05:07 PM

The meme that Romney missed the votes of millions of conservatives is a myth but one promoted long and hard by the conservative outrage industry. Hustler Ingraham promotes it to this day. Hustlers got it started the day after with incomplete numbers and it served their business model so . . .

http://www.redstate.com/dan_mclaughlin/2015/11/26/myth-4-million-conservative-voters-stayed-home-2012/

Josh Runkle

02-25-2016, 09:09 PM

Yep. I just hope we don't end up with another Mitt Romeny problem where enough people stay home to hand it to the democrats.

I, for one, cannot vote for trump if he is the nominee, as I am a conservative that views Donald Trump to be more dangerous to the country than Hilary Clinton. He'd put all the same policies as her in place, while simultaneously threatening war against any other country that won't "kiss the ring".

Hilary is evil and terrible for the country, but Trump would be worse. I won't "stay home", I will vote for the write in candidate named "No Confidence".

JHC

02-25-2016, 09:13 PM

LOKNLOD

02-25-2016, 09:16 PM

I, for one, cannot vote for trump if he is the nominee, as I am a conservative that views Donald Trump to be more dangerous to the country than Hilary Clinton. He'd put all the same policies as her in place, while simultaneously threatening war against any other country that won't "kiss the ring".

Hilary is evil and terrible for the country, but Trump would be worse. I won't "stay home", I will vote for the write in candidate named "No Confidence".

My only "hope" with Trump is that he blows it up so damn fast there'll still be people who remember what it's supposed to look like around to put it back together. 4-8 years of Bernllary and we're halfway into another generation of kids who don't remember what freedom looks like.

JHC

02-25-2016, 09:17 PM

I, for one, cannot vote for trump if he is the nominee, as I am a conservative that views Donald Trump to be more dangerous to the country than Hilary Clinton. He'd put all the same policies as her in place, while simultaneously threatening war against any other country that won't "kiss the ring".

Hilary is evil and terrible for the country, but Trump would be worse. I won't "stay home", I will vote for the write in candidate named "No Confidence".

I'm dying over the same struggle. Today, I judge the wickedness Hillary HAS done, trumps what Trump may do. Citizens of good conscience will differ. A wild ride ahead.

Already voted early for Rubio and melting the credit card for him.

JHC

02-25-2016, 09:19 PM

My only "hope" with Trump is that he blows it up so damn fast there'll still be people who remember what it's supposed to look like around to put it back together. 4-8 years of Bernllary and we're halfway into another generation of kids who don't remember what freedom looks like.

+1 primary challenge in 2020

LOKNLOD

02-25-2016, 10:07 PM

Hillary is an existential threat to the RKBA. With her expect 8 years of unrelenting acts on the 2nd Amend. through legislation, executive actions and SCOTUS nominations.

Very true.

The flip side, for the more socially liberal among us, is that I really don't think a very socially conservative pres is an existential threat to feminism, abortion, or homosexuality. He (whoever "he" is) may talk a good game in the primaries to court that crowd but I don't see anyone who's remotely electable being the one who is going to really do anything beyond jabber jaw when it comes to those issues.

Ironically politicians are far more threat to the specifically enumerated rights than the ones that aren't...

Glenn E. Meyer

02-26-2016, 10:32 AM

I agree. I think I've been clear that I have no sympathy or use for the social conservative warriors. I do think Cruz and then Rubio would try to make significant inroads on personal behavioral freedoms. I don't think Trump would. As far as war, Cruz seems more unrealistically war prone. I mentioned him stating that we need 2000 more planes. For what? Carpet bombing? Saying that implies that he hasn't read anything about military strategy, airpower, the past history of air, etc.

We are really in a hard place vs. the rock, Devil and the deep blue sea. Thus, I have to say again, the RKBA does it for me. I won't vote for Hillary. In a sense, I'm lucky as TX will not go for her in any circumstance.

Tamara

02-26-2016, 10:38 AM

I'm dying over the same struggle. Today, I judge the wickedness Hillary HAS done, trumps what Trump may do. Citizens of good conscience will differ. A wild ride ahead.

6158

Glenn E. Meyer

02-26-2016, 10:43 AM

Hillary will ban proton packs. Leaving us defenseless for the Supernatural. I think Tam and Kathy should star in the revival of the Ghostbusters movies instead of the current cast (who by the way, do seem funny).

Peally

02-26-2016, 10:47 AM

I plan to write in "Ham Sandwich" so far.

farscott

02-26-2016, 11:48 AM

TL;DR, but if your quotes are an indication that the Republicans are upset that Trump could break the party, then I'll ask them 3 rhetorical questions:

1) how is it so fragile?
2) if the Republicans are/were such stalwart conservatives, that could sell conservatism, then how come they haven't been able to run a conservative since Reagan?
3) how come Cruz & Rubio combined cannot beat Trump in Nevada?

While the questions are rhetorical and I am recovering from a few crazy days, here are my not-so-rhetorical answers.

The answers to 1) and 2) are essentially the same: The Republican party is full of single-issue factions. Some of those factions are financial restraint, RKBA, pro-life, national security, marriage is between a man and a woman, sex is bad unless you are married and heterosexual, fair taxes, immigration, etc. So the party has no unified voice or real platform that all members of the party can get behind other than "Democrats are bad". Someone like me, who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal, finds about half of the Republican party's platform to be utter crap, but it seems, in the aggregate, better than the Democratic platform.

I am not unusual in my dislike for half of the platform, and this dissatisfaction promotes internal struggles. This is why the primaries are all about moving to the right while the general election is all about moving to the center. It is also why the Democrats can craft great ads where words from the primary contests are used to bash the Republican candidate in the general election. In contrast, not much of what Senator Sanders says is going to be used against Secretary Clinton in attack ads.

As for 3), the simple answer is that the extra choice of Senators Cruz or Rubio means that Senators Cruz and Rubio split the votes just like Perot took votes that Bush 41 would have had in 1992. There is a lot of polling data that shows that if Senator Rubio goes one-on-one against Trump that Senator Rubio wins and that Trump has very limited upside when it comes to siphoning votes from other candidates. Yet Senator Rubio is likely to appeal to some Senator Cruz supporters, especially if the competition is Trump. Plus Trump only has a plurality of Republican primary voters. But if Trump gets 34% of the vote, Senator Rubio gets 24% of the vote, and Senator Cruz gets 15%, Trump wins. If Trump gets 35% of the vote and the only other candidate, Senator Rubio, gets 37%, then Trump loses. The presence of other primary choices is a good thing for Trump.

Irelander

02-26-2016, 12:04 PM

I, for one, cannot vote for trump if he is the nominee, as I am a conservative that views Donald Trump to be more dangerous to the country than Hilary Clinton. He'd put all the same policies as her in place, while simultaneously threatening war against any other country that won't "kiss the ring".

Hilary is evil and terrible for the country, but Trump would be worse. I won't "stay home", I will vote for the write in candidate named "No Confidence".

I too cannot vote for Trump. He is the antithesis of the conservative values and Christian morals that I look for in a candidate. I am flabbergasted by how the evangelical populace has flocked to Trump. I just don't get it especially when there are actual viable evangelical candidates.

Vote for the best man for the job and let God sort out the rest.

Peally

02-26-2016, 12:09 PM

I know I'm preaching to the choir but "people are stupid" is your answer.

farscott

02-26-2016, 12:14 PM

BaiHu

02-26-2016, 12:49 PM

My concern with Trump is two-fold: 1) He is friends with the Clintons, and 2) he never has shown any real support for the RKBA. I could actually see him striking a deal with the Clintons to go after the Republican nomination to help Secretary Clinton win the nomination. I can also see Trump having the same support for the RKBA as his peer, Senator Schumer.
Serious question: when was Trump in a political position to weigh in on RKBA? I honestly haven't bothered to look.

ETA: meaning until he started running for office recently.

Josh Runkle

02-26-2016, 12:50 PM

My concern with Trump is two-fold: 1) He is friends with the Clintons, and 2) he never has shown any real support for the RKBA. I could actually see him striking a deal with the Clintons to go after the Republican nomination to help Secretary Clinton win the nomination. I can also see Trump having the same support for the RKBA as his peer, Senator Schumer.

Exactly. Trump is just as anti-gun as Hilary. Heck, he'd appoint her to be the secretary of the newly created "we're seizing all your guns" agency.

BaiHu

02-26-2016, 01:14 PM

Crispy just endorsed Trump.

JV_

02-26-2016, 01:17 PM

Crispy just endorsed Trump.

Huh?

6160

BaiHu

02-26-2016, 01:18 PM

Huh?

6160
Trump makes the Clintons look like amateurs.

JV_

02-26-2016, 01:21 PM

Who's a better endorsement: Chris Christie or Lindsey Graham?

NEPAKevin

02-26-2016, 01:28 PM

I think Christie would like to be AG when Hillary gets indited. :)

jc000

02-26-2016, 01:47 PM

I don't know how much more clear you can be on 2A rights than this: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights

Isn't it a little preposterous to assume that someone would publicly run for office stating these positions, and then end up enacting the exact opposite policies?

And the "Trump supporters are stupid" talking point is getting a little tiresome. I get that everyone is butthurt over his success so far, but yep – the immigration issue really is that important to people. Maybe that shouldn't have been brushed aside for so long?

farscott

02-26-2016, 01:50 PM

Serious question: when was Trump in a political position to weigh in on RKBA? I honestly haven't bothered to look.

ETA: meaning until he started running for office recently.

Try this link with sources: http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_Gun_Control.htm

Dagga Boy

02-26-2016, 01:52 PM

Well, the Progressives are sticking together.

It is looking like again, I have to make a decision as to what I want to do in Novemeber. I have not gotten to vote for "my guy" since the first time I voted.....for the re-election of Ronald Reagen. Since then, one compromise after another. My disgust with the Republicans over the 2nd Amendment led to a Perot vote that gave us the Clinton's. I "liked" the Bush's, and as a man, I still had no problem voting for George W Bush, even though he was not conservative enough for me on many issues.

This election is making me sick. I finally got a real "my guy" as far as a pure Constitutionalist. Should be a no brainer for conservatives coming off the guy trying do whatever he can destroy the Constitution, and they are throwing in with the progressive carnival show of a guy who will literally say anything to get elected. We have learned not a thing from Obama. All one had to do was really look at what Obama was doing and saying before he was a candidate, and you would see exactly what you got. Now we are likely going to get a candidate who paid money to keep every evil disgusting enemy (as Schummer, Pelosi, Reid) and literally paid money to have Hilary come to his wedding.....and that is the public excuse. The Republican Party is literally getting ready to nominate a Clinton donor to represent them. I honestly think I am done. I am scared to death of handing the power of the Presidency to either a corrupt pathological lying power hungry progressive. Or a Power hungry narcissist who will say anything without any concern of truthfulness in order to obtain the ultimate power (which will be used for him, and those blindly loyal to him...we have had some of those before in the world). It is like a carnival show. The Founding Fathers are crying.

jc000

02-26-2016, 01:55 PM

This is what happens when we've gone so far off course.

Josh Runkle

02-26-2016, 01:59 PM

I don't know how much more clear you can be on 2A rights than this: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights

Isn't it a little preposterous to assume that someone would publicly run for office stating these positions, and then end up enacting the exact opposite policies?

Isn't it a little preposterous to assume that if he switched all of his positions, only when he started running for political office, that he would keep those positions once he no longer has to be accountable to the voters?

Kukuforguns

02-26-2016, 02:12 PM

It is like a carnival show. The Founding Fathers are crying.

Vote your conscience. Don't despair. The United States has a system of government that is resistant to radical change. Just as President Obama will leave the office in 11 months, so to will the next President.

The millenials are displaying a distrust of centralized government, which may swing the country to a more constitutional viewpoint.

I think the current situation is the result of years of reducing political discussion to sound bites that fit on TV without substantive consideration by the voting public. We need to encourage at atmosphere that encourage a deeper analysis by voters, which the internet can promote. We have generations that are used to letting other people do their thinking for them.

perlslacker

02-26-2016, 02:15 PM

Relevant: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/sen-lindsey-graham-jokes-about-gone-bat-crazy-gop-n526306?cid=sm_fb

jc000

02-26-2016, 02:28 PM

Isn't it a little preposterous to assume that if he switched all of his positions, only when he started running for political office, that he would keep those positions once he no longer has to be accountable to the voters?

I've got to run I'll respond in a bit.

Dagga Boy

02-26-2016, 02:32 PM

Vote your conscience. Don't despair. The United States has a system of government that is resistant to radical change. Just as President Obama will leave the office in 11 months, so to will the next President.

The millenials are displaying a distrust of centralized government, which may swing the country to a more constitutional viewpoint.

I think the current situation is the result of years of reducing political discussion to sound bites that fit on TV without substantive consideration by the voting public. We need to encourage at atmosphere that encourage a deeper analysis by voters, which the internet can promote. We have generations that are used to letting other people do their thinking for them.

I am voting my conscience in the primary as I always do.....and that will be for Ted Cruz. I will likely be voting the lesser of two evils in November. I could never place a vote for a Clinton....period. I will likely be voting with a hope that we get a Teddy Roosevelt (a progressive who at least did some good stuff for the country) instead of a Mussolini. Who knows.....our country may be on the path towards that. Maybe we are so jacked up due to the mass of the Free Shit Army that supports us becoming a Socialist country (Democrat/Socialist....they do not even know the difference now), the counter is a sort of American Facist movement. Okay...:confused:

I am watching Trump and Rubio exchanging barbs about sweating and such and it is an embarrassment. Watching the greatest nation in the history of the world turned into who can be meaner on twitter pitiful.

As far as Trump on guns......while Cruz was arguing in SCOTUS for gun rights, Trump was still in his waiting periods and no assault weapons phase of Pro 2nd Amendment. Now, that is in line with a lot of so-called Pro 2nd amendment compromisers, so it is not like he is a pure confiscatory like the other side, but he is not like most of us here.

LockedBreech

02-26-2016, 02:43 PM

Isn't it a little preposterous to assume that someone would publicly run for office stating these positions, and then end up enacting the exact opposite ?

I voted for Obama in 2008 (please forgive me, I was briefly a college liberal) almost entirely based on his representations that:

1.) He would make government more transparent and accessible.
2.) He would leave guns alone.

Suffice to say I don't much listen to campaign promises at all anymore.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Glenn E. Meyer

02-26-2016, 03:21 PM

Not voting for Trump in the primaries is one thing. However, if he becomes the candidate vs. Hillary - does one allow a fundamental threat to a basic right to keep and bear arms?

If one has a set of moral or religious beliefs, I prefer to have the ability to protect them with more than a stick. One can conduct oneself according to moral and religious principles. However, diminishing my right to self-defense is not acceptable.

BaiHu

02-26-2016, 03:23 PM

Try this link with sources: http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_Gun_Control.htm
Thanks for sharing that. AWB was supported by a few other Republicans that have found 2A religion later in life, yes?

What struck me most was this quote:

With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

He's right here. We have the technology and we should be able to make the system work for law abiding citizens in a more efficient and thorough/comprehensive way, no?

Peally

02-26-2016, 03:26 PM

I really don't care what the snake oil candidates will say, they're two sides of the exact same coin. Vote for old white guy Obama or vote for Clinton II. A choice like that isn't a choice, and really IDGAF who wins at that point. I'd rather not be the type of person that votes for either shitbag based on an ounce or two more or less shit here and there.

Tamara

02-26-2016, 03:38 PM

Wondering Beard

02-26-2016, 03:39 PM

Peally

02-26-2016, 03:39 PM

The near identical similarities between Trump and Obama are apparently lost with most people. It's pretty sad.

BaiHu

02-26-2016, 03:51 PM

Remember when we were making fun of Democrats for blindly following a cult of personality based on content-free promises of hope and change? Good times, good times...

https://youtu.be/U4yvvCv79QY

Wonder when someone'll do the Trump version of the video?

The near identical similarities between Trump and Obama are apparently lost with most people. It's pretty sad.

Look, I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I have to say four things about the above and I'm one of the people who pointed out Obama's 'Cult of Personaliteeee!':

1) Everyone of us has been failed by both parties.
2) If you're a democrat and you vote for Hillary or Sanders, I really have to wonder if you've passed 3rd grade math.
3) If you really think Trump is an Ivy League, racist, malcontent with absolutely no life skills, business skills, or real life experience, then I guess the joke is on one of us.
4) I'd rather be complicit in possibly ending this country, b/c of Trump than knowing I'd end it with Sanders/Clinton.

Peally

02-26-2016, 05:36 PM

I'd rather crack a drink, break out the lawn chair, and roast some weenies over the inevitable burning remains ;)

Dagga Boy

02-26-2016, 06:01 PM

Talk about dirty politics.....first this Symone person on the view and now Al Sharpton will leave the United States if Trump is elected...that is a promise I hope is kept.

JAD

02-26-2016, 06:08 PM

, the counter is a sort of American Facist movement. .

We've seen it before.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

Dagga Boy

02-26-2016, 06:15 PM

We've seen it before.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

I was looking at almost the straight common definition from Wiki:

Historians, political scientists, and other scholars have long debated the exact nature of fascism.[22] Each interpretation of fascism is distinct, leaving many definitions too wide or narrow.[23][24]

One common definition of the term focuses on three concepts: the fascist negations of anti-liberalism, anti-communism and anti-conservatism; nationalist authoritarian goals of creating a regulated economic structure to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture; and a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth and charismatic leadership.[25][26][27] According to many scholars, fascism — especially once in power — has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far right.[28]

Tamara

02-26-2016, 06:20 PM

Talk about dirty politics.....first this Symone person on the view and now Al Sharpton will leave the United States if Trump is elected...that is a promise I hope is kept.

If everybody who swore to leave in a huff if Bush/Obama got elected/reelected had actually left, this country would be a better place.

farscott

02-27-2016, 07:46 AM

Look, I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I have to say four things about the above and I'm one of the people who pointed out Obama's 'Cult of Personaliteeee!':

1) Everyone of us has been failed by both parties.
2) If you're a democrat and you vote for Hillary or Sanders, I really have to wonder if you've passed 3rd grade math.
3) If you really think Trump is an Ivy League, racist, malcontent with absolutely no life skills, business skills, or real life experience, then I guess the joke is on one of us.
4) I'd rather be complicit in possibly ending this country, b/c of Trump than knowing I'd end it with Sanders/Clinton.

On 3), of course Trump has life skills and business experience. All of the candidates for both major parties do. No one gets to the level of running for President under the banner of one of the two major parties without life skills and business experience. If life skills and business experience was the sole gauge, Carly Fiorina should be the Republican nominee as one does not become CEO of a publicly-held company without that skill set. The business may be real-estate development, it may be legal, it may be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, and/or it may be politics. The issue is that is not necessary to be President but not sufficient. The missing part for Trump is working with others, especially Congress, as he will not be able to run the country by dictate. He also needs to learn to filter his words and not use Twitter to respond to every slight, both real and imagined.

BaiHu

02-27-2016, 08:02 AM

The missing part for Trump is working with others, especially Congress, as he will not be able to run the country by dictate. He also needs to learn to filter his words and not use Twitter to respond to every slight, both real and imagined.

I agree with the above sentiment and that is a Uuuge issue that he'll have to overcome, if he makes it. That being said, 1) I was responding to the Obama & Trump are the same and 2) if he's as good at strategizing as I've seen him during the primary, then he'll be good at strategizing in Congress. He's been many moves ahead of all the candidates.

People can make fun of him not really knowing what "the line" meant regarding the Commerce clause & Healthcare, but he's the candidate smart enough to bring it up in the debates, IIRC. Just as he's been ahead of the curve regarding the economic effect of our poor immigration policies. And I suspect he'll be smart enough to counter, when they find something wrong with his hiring practices, with a resounding "yes" and since I understand the weaknesses and the attraction to these hiring practices, I'm uniquely qualified to fix the problem.

Would you rather have your alarm system designed by an electrician or a thief?

Sad? Yes, but it's our collective fault for not stopping this bullshit a long time ago.

farscott

02-27-2016, 11:30 AM

Trump is really "Mr. Unpopular". http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-really-unpopular-with-general-election-voters/

Trump is extraordinarily unpopular with independent voters and Democrats. Gallup polling conducted over the past six weeks found Trump with a -27-percentage-point net favorability rating among independent voters, and a -70-point net rating among Democrats; both marks are easily the worst in the GOP field.

By comparison Hillary Clinton, whose favorability ratings are notoriously poor, has a 42 percent favorable rating against a 50 percent unfavorable rating, for a net of -8 points. Those are bad numbers, but nowhere near as bad as Trump’s.

You could plausibly argue that Ted Cruz would be a worse nominee than Trump despite having better favorability ratings and faring slightly better in general election head-to-heads. There’s reasonably clear evidence that voters tend to punish candidates with “extreme” (far right or far left) ideologies, and by statistical measures Cruz would be the most conservative nominee since (and possibly including) Barry Goldwater in 1964. Trump’s ideology is harder to pin down.

perlslacker

02-29-2016, 01:08 AM

That more or less confirms my understanding: a Trump/Hillary race will end up with electorates on both sides completely disinterested.

It'll be a war to try to be less-gross enough to get their respective bases to the polls.

JHC

02-29-2016, 07:13 AM

I, for one, cannot vote for trump if he is the nominee, as I am a conservative that views Donald Trump to be more dangerous to the country than Hilary Clinton. He'd put all the same policies as her in place, while simultaneously threatening war against any other country that won't "kiss the ring".

Hilary is evil and terrible for the country, but Trump would be worse. I won't "stay home", I will vote for the write in candidate named "No Confidence".

I have joined your position Josh Runkle. I've argued long and hard over the years against spending one's vote on a 3rd party but this is seismic. The exposure this weekend of Trumps past comments criticizing Gorbachev for not using the iron fist in Russia and pointing to the Chinese and Tiananmen Square as the model is just a cherry on top.

JV_

02-29-2016, 07:24 AM

I've always thought Trump should be running for dictator, in a place like Venezuela, rather than President of the USA.

JV_

02-29-2016, 09:44 AM

Here's where Trump gets his ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjQKFoUdk4g&feature=youtu.be

peterb

02-29-2016, 10:13 AM

When the parodies start to seem reasonable.....

"Cthulhu 2016: Why settle for the lesser of two evils?"

"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords 2016"
Couldn't be worse than the current system.

Sheesh.

Edwin

02-29-2016, 11:21 AM

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0BKMhYf9pixeonM4/giphy.gif

Irelander

02-29-2016, 01:45 PM

It boggles my mind why this does not resonate with true conservatives:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/02/29/ben-carson-why-intend-to-stay-in-gop-presidential-race.html?intcmp=hpbt2

Josh Runkle

02-29-2016, 02:31 PM

It boggles my mind why this does not resonate with true conservatives:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/02/29/ben-carson-why-intend-to-stay-in-gop-presidential-race.html?intcmp=hpbt2

Well, I must not be a true conservative then. While only 4 states have had primaries, the politicians are gaining more money each day. The only way to defeat trump is to make this a 2 candidate race. Something the democrats were smart enough to figure out a while ago. While Ben Carson may feel a duty to his voters, keeping this a 6-7 candidate race only results in a Donald trump win. If Carson were in 2nd, 3rd or even 4th place, it would make sense to continue, but he's simply pulling votes away from others who could beat trump. Carson hasn't won or come close to winning in any states, and polls don't project him to in the future. In essence, he's a Jim Gilmore that isn't as good at speaking, but has widely held name recognition. He says he's there still to promote his conservative values, but the real answer is that just like Kasich, he's really just running for vice-president. He needs to get out of the race ASAP for the good of the country.

And while he holds a doctorate, no offense, but I hang out with people who are wiser and more informed than him every day. He's certainly a "nice guy", but that just doesn't do it for me.

...and I don't believe that prison makes people gay.

Irelander

02-29-2016, 03:28 PM

I hang out with people who are wiser and more informed than him every day.

I don't really mean to argue with you, but if you hang out with wiser people than a world renowned neurosurgeon who is a Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient, holds 67 honorary doctorates, and a myriad of other prestigious awards then I am very impressed.

There is this strange myth in American politics that if you vote with your conscience which happens not to align with the establishment nomination, then you are not voting for the good of the country.

Dagga Boy

02-29-2016, 03:32 PM

My attraction to Carson has always been as a "Healer" and something our country needs. Unfortunately, looking at the race and this country, nobody gives a crap about making it better, healing, or anything noble. We are headed towards Balkanization, or a Facist totalitarian type of government. My goal.....be on the winning side.

voodoo_man

02-29-2016, 03:46 PM

Carson shouldn't survive Tuesday. If he stays, just like Sanders, it'll start splitting the vote.

Josh Runkle

02-29-2016, 03:58 PM

I don't really mean to argue with you, but if you hang out with wiser people than a world renowned neurosurgeon who is a Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient, holds 67 honorary doctorates, and a myriad of other prestigious awards then I am very impressed.

There is this strange myth in American politics that if you vote with your conscience which happens not to align with the establishment nomination, then you are not voting for the good of the country.

Wisdom and Knowledge are not the same thing. He has far more knowledge than I do, especially related to neuroscience, surgery and medicine in general.

That has nothing to do with wisdom.

Irelander

02-29-2016, 04:11 PM

Wisdom and Knowledge are not the same thing. He has far more knowledge than I do, especially related to neuroscience, surgery and medicine in general.

That has nothing to do with wisdom.

You obviously have not read any of his books or listened to any of his speeches.

Josh Runkle

02-29-2016, 04:18 PM

You obviously have not read any of his books or listened to any of his speeches.

I read "America the Beautiful", have never seen him speak in person, but have watched at minimum 10 speeches on YouTube.

Just because I have a different viewpoint doesn't mean that I am uninformed.

ETA: Also, I could never bring myself to vote for a vegetarian ;)

Irelander

02-29-2016, 04:31 PM

Just because I have a different viewpoint doesn't mean that I am uninformed.

Agreed.

I really enjoyed Gifted Hands, and Take the Risk as well. You should check them out.

BaiHu

03-04-2016, 06:37 PM

As a general complaint, is anyone else more and more disturbed at how badly the format for debates has gotten?

They give just enough time for someone to begin answering while someone interrupts. Then, once the interruption occurs, the moderators don't care to enforce the rules/reign the candidates in or for the candidate, who received the question, to go back and finalize their answer.

This is the worst combination of bread and circuses combined with hungry, hungry hippos of soundbite/airtime. No wonder no one watches these debates.

David S.

03-05-2016, 09:28 AM

This is the worst combination of bread and circuses combined with hungry, hungry hippos of soundbite/airtime. No wonder no one watches these debates.

6328

NEPAKevin

03-15-2016, 02:59 PM

In other news... KKK grand dragon endorses Hillary Clinton for president (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/15/kkk-grand-dragon-endorses-hillary-clinton-for-president.html)

RoyGBiv

03-15-2016, 04:12 PM

In other news... KKK grand dragon endorses Hillary Clinton for president (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/15/kkk-grand-dragon-endorses-hillary-clinton-for-president.html)

Reverse psych FTW! (lolz)

ffhounddog

03-15-2016, 08:00 PM

So Kasich wins Ohio that is good for him and really puts Cruz at a bind.

I think it will be a Trump/Kasich ticket like it was a Regan/Bush ticket but I have only been right once this election cycle.

Dagga Boy

03-15-2016, 08:13 PM

So Kasidh wins Ohio that is good for him and really puts Cruz at a bind.

I think it will be a Trump/Kasich ticket like it was a Regan/Bush ticket but I have only been right once this election cycle.

Two big government progressives......great:(

ffhounddog

03-15-2016, 08:17 PM

I do not think Cruz would want to be VP for anyone. He is a sitting Senator and could get more done in 4-8 years in the Senate than being someones VP. I try to use logic but that has not worked this primary election season. I was hoping Jim Webb had a chance to be the Democratic Nominee that way I would have to look at the issues and stances this election year.

Joe in PNG

03-15-2016, 08:18 PM

Two big government progressives......great:(

Yeah, I'm expecting President Trump to go 'squish' round this time next year.

Dagga Boy

03-15-2016, 08:40 PM

Hilary's speech was awesome. She mentioned preserving the rights of every group she could think of. Voting rights, minorities, lgbt, women, and numerous others. Weirdly, she left out gun rights.....until the end when she made ending "gun violence" a big deal. WTF is gun violence anyways. How many guns are attacking other guns? We have a criminal problem. We have a criminal problem with them using guns. Seems nobody on that side wants to actually deal with criminals.

Drang

03-15-2016, 08:42 PM

TAZ

03-15-2016, 08:59 PM

Is that the same speech where she claimed "we" lost no one in Benghazi?

Technically we didnt really loose anyone in Benghazi. You see; she knows exactly where the dead a buried and the lives ones live. See... it all depends on your definition on loose.

Josh Runkle

03-15-2016, 09:05 PM

See... it all depends on your definition on loose.

"loose
lo͞os/
adjective
adjective: loose; comparative adjective: looser; superlative adjective: loosest
1.
not firmly or tightly fixed in place; detached or able to be detached.
"a loose tooth"
synonyms:not fixed in place, not secure, unsecured, unattached; More
detached, unfastened, untied;
wobbly, unsteady, movable
"a loose floorboard"
antonyms:secure, tight" -Google Dictionary

I think you meant to say "lose", but loose, as in "Hilary is morally loose" might be apropos.

Drang

03-15-2016, 09:24 PM

So, Rubios out. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marco-rubio-suspends-2016-presidential-campaign/story?id=37662633)

Dagga Boy

03-15-2016, 09:32 PM

Is that the same speech where she claimed "we" lost no one in Benghazi?
No that was yesterday's Hillary "what difference does it make moment".

So, Rubios out. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marco-rubio-suspends-2016-presidential-campaign/story?id=37662633)

Wish he had done it awhile ago. I think Cruz will pick a lot of his votes up and possibly get a shot in the end.

Drang

03-15-2016, 09:33 PM

Wish he had done it awhile ago. I think Cruz will pick a lot of his votes up and possibly get a shot in the end.
From your lips... er, keyboard to God's ears.

BaiHu

03-15-2016, 10:44 PM

Trump/Cruz is the way to go, then Cruz can be president next.

farscott

03-16-2016, 05:33 AM

With the Republican choice down to Trump and Senator Cruz, I expect the Republican establishment to wave the while flag on the Presidential election and focus on the Senate races. If Trump does win the nomination, I expect the party elites to pay lip service (and nothing more) to Trump being their candidate and hope he loses to Secretary Clinton. If Senator Cruz wins the nomination, I expect the party elites to actively sabotage his candidacy (remember the ads about "If Senator Goldwater is a Republican, then ..." put out by President Johnson) with the only difference is that the attack ads will come from a Super PAC "not associated with any candidate" as Senator Cruz is considered to be immature and not able to be trusted.

The party might try to nominate another candidate if the delegates are not there for either Trump or Senator Cruz (the so-called "brokered" convention), but the party at that point is not trying to win the Presidency. The goal at that point is to not lose the Senate in 2016 and the Presidency for twenty years.

The level of personal animosity that the Republican leadership in both the House and Senate has for Senator Cruz cannot (and should not) be underestimated, and the party rather go head-to-head as the loyal opposition to President Clinton (45) than work with President Cruz. The overriding belief is that the Republican party will do much better as the loyal opposition than it will dealing with the vagaries of a President who fails to understand that politics is the "art of the possible" and believes that shutting down the government is a valid tactic. Primaries force candidates to the extreme, and general elections force them to the center. So nominating the most extreme candidate in generations -- that is how Senator Cruz stacks up -- is a sure fire election defeat.

rickohio

03-16-2016, 07:13 AM

So Kasich wins Ohio that is good for him and really puts Cruz at a bind.

I think it will be a Trump/Kasich ticket like it was a Regan/Bush ticket but I have only been right once this election cycle.
Kasich is sure poisoning the well if VP is in his plans.

Sent from my LG-V480 using Tapatalk

LittleLebowski

03-16-2016, 07:34 AM

I guess that Soros got return on his investment in Kasich (http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/14/soros-associate-gives-200000-to-pro-kasich-super-pac/).

Sensei

03-16-2016, 09:43 AM

Trump/Cruz is the way to go, then Cruz can be president next.

Cruz has already said that he will not join Trump on a ticket and I believe him. First, Cruz is a conservative and Trump is a progressive. Second, Cruz thinks that Trump would lose big and has no desire to be on that sinking ship. Finally, there have been plenty of heated primaries with mischaracterizations, but never in modern politics has one candidate repeatedly called another candidate from the same party a liar, or used such a pejorative as a nickname. Would you do business with someone who did that to you?

BaiHu

03-16-2016, 10:11 AM

Cruz has already said that he will not join Trump on a ticket and I believe him. First, Cruz is a conservative and Trump is a progressive. Second, Cruz thinks that Trump would lose big and has no desire to be on that sinking ship. Finally, there have been plenty of heated primaries with mischaracterizations, but never in modern politics has one candidate repeatedly called another candidate from the same party a liar, or used such a pejorative as a nickname. Would you do business with someone who did that to you?

I'm totally willing to be wrong, but I'm also willing to bet that the allure of power now will win out over maybe power later.

Glenn E. Meyer

03-16-2016, 10:21 AM

Josh Runkle

03-16-2016, 10:36 AM

Maybe Cruz could be Secretary of State?

Given the Obama nominee for SCOTUS (not gun friendly), the GOP Old Boy Golf and Yacht Club should back Trump to the hilt if he gets it. Then if they maintain the House and Senate, they can moderate crazy ideas. Of course, this makes the RKBA primary in decision making. YMMV.

Rubio - tough. He said it wasn't God's plan for him. Does that mean he thinks Trump and Hillary are God's plan? He is a theological nitwit. Demonstrates he didn't have the intellectual depth for the job.

Congress can't moderate trump for 90 days if he starts nuking other countries.

NEPAKevin

03-16-2016, 10:50 AM

Wish he had done it awhile ago. I think Cruz will pick a lot of his votes up and possibly get a shot in the end.

Rubio would have had to have dropped out prior to the first super Tuesday for it to have mattered. If you look at the numbers since and assume that all of Rubio's supporters vote for Cruz i.e. add up both Rubio's and Cruz's totals, Trump still mathematically wins in most of the states he won.

ffhounddog

03-16-2016, 10:50 AM

Hmmm as someone who has been on the football end of the spear Stop being a moron. They said the same thing about Bush said the same thing about Regan in 1980. Bush was the establishment pick over Regan. I think you do not know about the whole nuke thing but that is okay I learned about it from manuals that you can probably find with www.google.com

Glenn E. Meyer

03-16-2016, 10:51 AM

I doubt that would happen (nuking). Let's be realistic in our politics.

Trump will nuke other countries. Hillary will bring in UN troops from Botswana to confiscate our guns. Dogs and cats will live together. It's the age of Aquarius or the End of Days.

My point is that if you are single issue voter - and that issue is the 2nd Amend. - Hillary will try to destroy it. She will if there is Democratic control of the Congress and nominations to the SCOTUS.

However, if one thinks that a GOP presidency of some nut or right wing fanatic is more dangerous, then you vote accordingly. The GOP is no friend to liberty and personal freedom in many aspects.

Cross that with foreign policy risks? Another stupid war? Let's start one with Putin. More troops in the toilet of the Middle East?

No current candidate has the stature needed for the job. It is a set of bad to worst choices.

Sensei

03-16-2016, 10:54 AM

Maybe Cruz could be Secretary of State?

Given the Obama nominee for SCOTUS (not gun friendly), the GOP Old Boy Golf and Yacht Club should back Trump to the hilt if he gets it. Then if they maintain the House and Senate, they can moderate crazy ideas. Of course, this makes the RKBA primary in decision making. YMMV.

Rubio - tough. He said it wasn't God's plan for him. Does that mean he thinks Trump and Hillary are God's plan? He is a theological nitwit. Demonstrates he didn't have the intellectual depth for the job.

I'm not a Rubio supporter, but your take on Rubio's concession speech is rather, shall I say...unique. I watched it in realtime and thought that it was one of the best concession speeches that I've heard.

I also don't think that Cruz will want anything to do with a Trump's Presidency.

Glenn E. Meyer

03-16-2016, 11:04 AM

It might have had emotional resonance but if one considers a deeper view of theology it was naive on many grounds. But that would be an interesting other thread. If my plans don't work out, I don't usually think the Universe Creator of 100 billion galaxies of hundred billion stars each in a multiverse with 10 ** 500 alternates is to blame for my failures. Or not to blame but has a different plan, negating free will?

YMMV on the role of God. As I said, that's a diversion. I just thought his speech was not the best.

BaiHu

03-16-2016, 11:04 AM

Rubio would have had to have dropped out prior to the first super Tuesday for it to have mattered. If you look at the numbers since and assume that all of Rubio's supporters vote for Cruz i.e. add up both Rubio's and Cruz's totals, Trump still mathematically wins in most of the states he won.
Rubio is a moderate compared to Cruz. I'd imagine Rubio votes split between Trump and Kasich, but very little to Cruz. JMHO.

Glenn E. Meyer

03-16-2016, 11:06 AM

BaiHu

03-16-2016, 11:40 AM

Now the pundits are postulating a turn to Kasich and regretting he wasn't supported originally by the GOP Golf and Yacht Club. The reason being Kasich's position on Obama care and the 11 millions immigrants was against their GOP Commandments!
GOP is on the run. They're desperate to maintain control of their little slice of DC. Trump/Cruz will crush them all and they'll have to go find real jobs.

NEPAKevin

03-16-2016, 11:51 AM

Rubio is a moderate compared to Cruz. I'd imagine Rubio votes split between Trump and Kasich, but very little to Cruz. JMHO.

Agreed. My "assumption" was at best an over simplification that takes a best case scenario and shows that it would most likely have been a moot point.

I think it would by hysterical to see Rubio as Trump's VP. Big Donald and little Marko. The late night comedy writers would have a field day.

Glenn E. Meyer

03-16-2016, 12:05 PM

GOP is on the run. They're desperate to maintain control of their little slice of DC. Trump/Cruz will crush them all and they'll have to go find real jobs.

The GOP being out of touch with the people was seen at the end of the Bush run. A group of the wise men met at the Maine retreat of old Bush to figure out how to aid Jeb. They called themselves the 'Commodores'. That says it all.

On the Democratic side, the same is true with the support for Hillary. Younger African-American and quite to the left intellectuals view the older Civil Rights leaders as being concerned with being on her gravy train for their organizations. These are the folks who fly into to some incident, stay in the nice hotel, make a speech at the rally and try to big foot the local activists. Then they leave.

At the top levels both parties collude for their financial benefit. They hire each others' kids and firms, etc.

Joe in PNG

03-16-2016, 03:27 PM

GOP is on the run. They're desperate to maintain control of their little slice of DC. Trump/Cruz will crush them all and they'll have to go find real jobs.

Awesome- Buuuuut, who do we have to replace them?

RoyGBiv

03-16-2016, 05:00 PM

If I'm channeling Cruz, right now I'm not conceding, but if concession time comes to pass, I'd be interested in AG.
Otherwise, Senator is just fine. Until 2020.

David S.

03-16-2016, 06:03 PM

What happens to the "Land of the free and home of the brave" when those living in it are no longer interested in being free or brave?

Pretty much this.

Rick_ICT

03-16-2016, 10:56 PM

I heard on CNN today three new national polls out, all three had Trump losing to Hillary by 8 points or more. They did not say how Cruz fared, or if he was even included. Last I heard, Cruz was consistently beating Hillary in national polls, but those must be weeks old by now.

I seriously doubt Cruz is foolish enough to hitch his wagon to Trump's shooting star, as was mentioned he can get more done in the senate for four more years than going down in flames as a VP candidate on the losing ticket this year. Assuming of course that Trump manages to get to an insurmountable majority of bound delegates before the convention. Much talk is going on about the convention and its rules, I'm not sure Trump is a lock even if he gets to 1237 or whatever the magic number is supposed to be. I think the will of the party to put it all on the line rather than hand it over to Trump is being seriously underestimated.

I suspect Cruz will stay in the race to the convention, assuming he will be the consensus alternative to Trump. The majority of Republicans don't want Trump, ditching him at the convention will tick off a lot of Dem crossovers and independents, but will actually shore up the base. Bypassing Cruz also, however, would constitute murder/suicide for the party after all the work and money that the base will have poured into his campaign by then. This talk of drafting Ryan or Romney seems to be picking up, now even Boehner has publicly floated the idea.

Hopefully, Kasich won't be able to raise enough money to hang very long and Cruz will be right on Trump's heels in delegates. Has anyone heard if Kasich's lawyers have managed to get his sorry ass back on the ballot in Pennsylvania despite his not getting enough signatures? I could almost see the party throwing the nomination to Kasich in a distant third as a "F U" to Cruz for trying to hold their feet to the fire the last several years.

Trump might try to run third party if he gets shafted, or he might just have a tantrum and go back to donating to the Democrats, like he's been doing consistently for decades.

Josh Runkle

03-16-2016, 11:18 PM

RoyGBiv

03-17-2016, 04:00 AM

An interesting perspective...

Wake up Ted, it's time to make the phone call to Trump (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/03/16/wake-up-ted-its-time-to-make-phone-call-to-trump.html?intcmp=hphz03)

Back in 2012 I desperately wanted Newt Gingrich to pick up the phone and call Mitt Romney. Newt should have said to Mitt, “The writings on the wall. You’re the winner Mitt. But I will put my ego aside to save America and unite the party. I’ll take the V.P. slot. Let’s combine forces and we’ll win the White House together. I represent the base -- conservatives and Tea Party activists who bleed red for the GOP. If you pick me, together we change the course of history. If you don’t pick me, millions of conservatives stay home and you lose. So let’s go to the dance together.”

But Newt never made the phone call. Mitt lost. The GOP lost. Capitalism lost. The middle class lost. America lost.

Today we see the price we paid -- GDP near zero. Ninety-four million working-age Americans no longer working. Manufacturing collapsing. More businesses closing each day than opening. Record highs for food stamp use. Middle class Americans being bankrupted by Obamacare. Middle Class jobs have disappeared. The national debt is a staggering $19 trillion. We are entering an Obama Great Depression. If only Newt had made that phone call.

Ted, don’t let your ego get in the way. You’re 45-years-old. You will never beat Trump. But you can be part of history. You can be part of the team that wins the White House and saves America. Tell Donald to take the next eight years. You’ll take the next eight. Eight years from now you’ll still be only 53 years old. Pick up the phone and call Donald Trump. Tell him you’ll take V.P.

Here’s the important part. If Cruz sets aside his ego, Trump/Cruz will stick a stake through the heart of the arrogant, elitist GOP establishment once and for all. Trump and Cruz are the only two truly “outsider candidates.” Trump has never run for office. Cruz is the most hated man in the U.S. Senate. They are the only two candidates both the GOP establishment and D.C. establishment could never allow to become nominee.

Together they control just under 80 percent of the delegates (1,017 out of 1,323). By combining forces, Trump and Cruz have routed the establishment. They’ve given hope back to the GOP base. They’ve given power back to the people. The establishment has lost the party. The establishment is out in the cold. Trump/Cruz can’t be stopped. The GOP will never be the same. America will be saved.