Help switching from striker fired to DA/SA for newer shooter

[Paltares8]

My 2 guns now are a Ruger SR9c and an S22. My wife has adopted the .22 which is fine because I like the 9mm a lot better. I am soon picking up a CZ PO-7 Duty. I will probably end up using that as my carry gun when I start to figure out its quirks and stuff. I prefer a safety on my guns so I won't use the decocker much if at all. I was jist wondering if anyone could give me and tips about DA/SA guns in general, and if anyone has anything specifically about the P07 they would like to share I'd greatly appreciate it. I carry AIWB with the Ruger and would likely do the same if I choose to carry the CZ. Any feedback is appreciated

[Lomshek]

If you're going to carry a DA/SA gun in DA mode without a decocker (not real familiar with the P07 but it looks like it can't have both safety and decocker) then wear a hole in your thumb practicing thumbing the hammer down with dummy rounds until you have a (you think) infallible method of un-cocking the hammer manually THEN try it at the range with live ammo THEN still always make sure it's pointed at something you're OK with shooting because at some point the hammer will slip past your thumb.

As far as mastering the DA trigger set a target at 10 yards and put a couple mags through it (all rounds DA only) then do two rounds at a time (1 DA, 1 SA) then do various other round counts (1 DA, 2-4 SA) until you can keep everything in the A zone/0 down. Once that gets easy move the target further back, once you're at 25 yards start going for head shots.

Every time you fire DA be sure you're pulling the trigger quickly straight through its travel (no staging or milking the trigger).

[Sal Picante]

I prefer a safety on my guns so I won't use the decocker much if at all.

So, are you planning to carry the P07 "cocked and locked"? If so, then you're never really going to need to worry about the DA press...

[ReverendMeat]

It sounds like you'll be carrying it with the hammer back, safety on so I'd treat it as any other SAO with the added benefit that if you get a failure to fire and forget to do IA you might be able to solve the problem by pulling the trigger again. I would not recommend thumbing the hammer down manually for DA carry as a matter of course.

[David S.]

I prefer a safety on my guns so I won't use the decocker much if at all.

You're skipping out on the primary benefit of the DA/SA design. The Double Action first trigger pull and no safety.

Ernest Langdon: Fear Not the Double Action Shot part 1/3.


https://youtu.be/FsoX26OhDCY

[JAD]

TDAs are great if you religiously decock, and SAs are great if you ride and work the safety.

[Peally]

Meh if the safety is there might as well learn it and use it. I carry/shoot my DA/SA in DA mode with the safety on. That's like double secret probation safety. I'd learn the DA pull enough to know be familiar with it even if you're primarily going to shoot cocked and locked; shit happens, know how your gun works.

[Paltares8]

Thanks alot for all the responses. Probably would carry cocked and locked once i get some practice in. Maybe safety on in DA mode at first. So to decock from SA to DA without a decocker I'd have to firmly hold the hammer and let it down by gently pressing the trigger? Is that how thats works? I feel stupid for never really trying with the wifes 22. I do know that the safety on her SR22 does decock the hammer but I'm fairly certain the P07 does not, hence the ability to carry condition 1. As I said I'm fairly new to guns and don't really know anyone to "show me the ropes" and have figured out most of what I know from trial and error and forums such as this. Thanks again for all the info

[TheNewbie]

If you want to carry a DA/SA that also has a safety, you should look at the Beretta 92, PX4 or the HK USP series. They can be decocked using the safety decocker and then put on safe.

If you are set on carrying the CZ I would learn to shoot it DA/SA. I just think too much can go wrong with thumbing the hammer down.

[Lomshek]

Thanks alot for all the responses. Probably would carry cocked and locked once i get some practice in. Maybe safety on in DA mode at first. So to decock from SA to DA without a decocker I'd have to firmly hold the hammer and let it down by gently pressing the trigger? Is that how thats works?

Yes that's the method (assuming the gun lacks a proper decocker). The trick is doing that without letting the hammer slip.

An uncle of mine bought some off brand .380 pistol (Don't remember the brand. Taurus, Bersa or whatever.) that required thumbing the hammer down. He figured that wouldn't be a big problem so (knowing how this was going to end) we went to the range where I had him practice a few drills and attempt decocking it a few times. I think he had at least two ND's out of 5 or 6 attempts. Showed him the best ways for doing this (altering your grip for better leverage on the hammer helps) with the suggestion that he never do it once the gun is loaded and he does it once then leaves it alone.


Meh if the safety is there might as well learn it and use it. I carry/shoot my DA/SA in DA mode with the safety on. That's like double secret probation safety. I just about fell over laughing! (I carry the same way when I carried a DA safety gun)

[HopetonBrown]

Louis Awerbuck told us a story about how he was at a HK USP event at Gunsite. Since he was the Chief Rangemaster he was asked to fire the first shot, in front of the crowd. The USP was in single action with the safety on. He said he was nervous and inadvertently decocked the pistol, meaning only to deactivate the safety. Thinking he was still in single action, he jerked the DA shot and sent one into the dirt.

I'm not smart enough to run a DA/SA gun with the safety actuated.

[HCountyGuy]

Probably one of the best write-ups on working DA/SA guns is ToddG's write-up on it found here:

General Thoughts on DA/SA Pistols (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4212-General-Thoughts-on-DA-SA-Pistols)

That being said, if you've got any bad habits when shooting a gun, they'll show up tenfold running that DA trigger.

I'm re-acquainting myself with the P229 after running a P320C for about a year and a half, and I've found myself with some horrible pre-ignition push on the double action shot. Not saying I didn't have it before, but it certainly shows more with that DA shot.

[Paltares8]

Just read ToddG's thread and I must say it really gave me a lot to keep in mind, as have everyone comments on this thread. I have my work cut out for me when I pick up the new one. I feel fairly confident that I can become proficient enough to safely handle it and hopefully shoot it better than my options now, not that I think I've reached my full potential with my current pistols, but this is certainly more in line with the type of guns that I'd like to shoot/carry. Thanks again for all the help. I know where to go when I have more questions, as I'm sure there will be many

[David S.]

If you give us a general idea of where you live, I bet we could help you find some high quality training opportunities in your area.

[Peally]

Your basement. Tape a target to the wall, pull that DA trigger, don't let the sights move as much as possible.

Then do it faster.

Then do it faster.

Rinse/repeat daily for a year and you'll be unstoppable with the thing.

[Sal Picante]

The P07 is an either/or safety/decocker...

If you've configured it as a decocker (factory), then you've got a DA/SA with a decock only.

If you add the safety, then it is just that, a safety, not a decocker. If you're going to let the hammer down, I suggest you experiment with getting your thumb in the way. See the video below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpcHRoL35Po

Personally? The P07 and P09 have really workable DA triggers; just learn the DA trigger press, when to decock, and don't deal with all the safety BS... But what do I know?

[Peally]

Nothing you dirty GM scrub.

Personally I'd just learn the DA too. It's not that bad and is much more pleasant to think about than mistakes when manually dropping hammers (already seen the results and I like having meat on my hands).

[1986s4]

When I carried a Beretta 92 I carried safety on, I just learned how to off safe during the draw, it became reflexive. When I want to practice the DA first pull I fire one shot, decock and put the pistol down or holster, draw or pick up and fire DA, repeat. I also use a revolver regularly.

[GJM]

TDAs are great if you religiously decock, and SAs are great if you ride and work the safety.

Decocking has never struck me as being that hard to remember to do, but I accept that it may be an issue for some. This seems like a good test. If you are the kind of guy that constantly forgets to zip up his pants, DA/SA may not be for you. If you can keep your fly up in public, without regular reminders and practice, you are probably good to go.

[Sal Picante]

Decocking has never struck me as being that hard to remember to do, but I accept that it may be an issue for some. This seems like a good test. If you are the kind of guy that constantly forgets to zip up his pants, DA/SA may not be for you. If you can keep your fly up in public, without regular reminders and practice, you are probably good to go.

So... DA/SA isn't for you? What's PilotChuck's take on all this "zipper business"?

[taadski]

Decocking has never struck me as being that hard to remember to do, but I accept that it may be an issue for some. This seems like a good test. If you are the kind of guy that constantly forgets to zip up his pants, DA/SA may not be for you. If you can keep your fly up in public, without regular reminders and practice, you are probably good to go.


That earned me the dreaded "what are you laughing at?" Scowl. :D

[Mr_White]

If I had a DA/SA gun with a decocking lever, I would absolutely use the decocking lever and NOT pull the trigger and manually lower the hammer.

If I chose to carry a DA/SA gun that had a safety, but no decocking lever, I would carry it SA and on safe and ignore the DA function. That's the only really clean way to do it.

Another possible option with that same type of gun that could maybe be made to work, but I really don't like very much and makes me cringe on a few levels, is to load and then manually decock in administrative circumstances. Carry the gun in DA mode, with safety on or off at the user's preference. If the gun is used in an emergency, put the safety on afterward instead of trying to manually decock in that context. But then the gun is going to be different than usual, if needed soon after that - SA instead of DA, (maybe) safety on instead of off. There are a bunch of problems with all that and those problems are why decocking levers exist.

[NCmtnman]

Decocking has never struck me as being that hard to remember to do, but I accept that it may be an issue for some. This seems like a good test. If you are the kind of guy that constantly forgets to zip up his pants, DA/SA may not be for you. If you can keep your fly up in public, without regular reminders and practice, you are probably good to go.

This is why I come here. ;)

[ubervic]

I moved from SFA to DA/SA partly to master a new trigger system but more importantly to be able to decock simply, safely and at will using the decocker. I drilled consistent decocking manipulations into my gun-handling within a day's work and love it.

[Sal Picante]

If I had a DA/SA gun with a decocking lever, I would absolutely use the decocking lever and NOT pull the trigger and manually lower the hammer.

If I chose to carry a DA/SA gun that had a safety, but no decocking lever, I would carry it SA and on safe and ignore the DA function. That's the only really clean way to do it.

Another possible option with that same type of gun that could maybe be made to work, but I really don't like very much and makes me cringe on a few levels, is to load and then manually decock in administrative circumstances. Carry the gun in DA mode, with safety on or off at the user's preference. If the gun is used in an emergency, put the safety on afterward instead of trying to manually decock in that context. But then the gun is going to be different than usual, if needed soon after that - SA instead of DA, (maybe) safety on instead of off. There are a bunch of problems with all that and those problems are why decocking levers exist.

^ this.

BTW - if you have a tuned CZ shadow that's DA-safety on, pulling through the DA sometimes/sometimes not lights one off. It also mangles the little bits in the sear cage.
I so love/hate those guns... They shoot so well, but are so retarded.

[taadski]

BTW - if you have a tuned CZ shadow that's DA-safety on, pulling through the DA sometimes/sometimes not lights one off. It also mangles the little bits in the sear cage.
I so love/hate those guns... They shoot so well, but are so retarded.


Really? [Cringe]


I haven't had it happen to me, but I have heard about folks having light strikes from riding the decockers by accident on the versions with those.

[YVK]

Decocking has never struck me as being that hard to remember to do, but I accept that it may be an issue for some. This seems like a good test. If you are the kind of guy that constantly forgets to zip up his pants, DA/SA may not be for you. If you can keep your fly up in public, without regular reminders and practice, you are probably good to go.

I prefer button flies but I occasionally leave one button undone. What would be your recommendation for a gun for someone like me?

[GJM]

I prefer button flies but I occasionally leave one button undone. What would be your recommendation for a gun for someone like me?

I know that you need to remove and have someone hold your gun while doing so, but to best answer this, refresh me, do your stand or squat these days?

[Paltares8]

Thanks to all who commented. I've really gotten a better understanding of the system now. Does the safety lock the hammer as well as the trigger? You can't just lower the hammer with the safety engaged? I guess not since nobody has mentioned it. I'll just get some practice in. I can't wait to pick it up. The trigger felt nice at the shop, can't wait to see how that translates on the range. Thanks again folks. Glad there's a place like this where new/newer shooters, or even more experienced people, can ask questions and get a wealth of information without being ridiculed

[David S.]

Speaking, I'm sure, for the lot of us: You're Welcome. Glad to be of service to you.

A non-judgmental question for you because I'm curious. Why the P-07?

[ReverendMeat]

Does the safety lock the hammer as well as the trigger? You can't just lower the hammer with the safety engaged?

That's correct.

[Paltares8]

Well I've been very interested in CZs for awhile. Not a huge fan of Glocks and 1911s, although I must admit my exposure to them has been limited. I was also considering the FNX9, Sig 2022, the Taurus Beretta knock off with the frame safety, and a few others. My price range is pretty limited as I have 3 young children and my favorite LGS had a P07 with a rail mounted light and holster for $350, so I kind of jumped on it. Trust me if my funds allowed there would be a much different selection process. But I have seen a lot of very positive reviews so I figured what the hey. If money were now object it would be a USP or P30l, Sig P226 Legion, Beretta Brigadier, a CZ SP01 or one of their top of the liners, and I'm also very interested in the newer Lionhearts. But alas I am quite a ways away from either of them. One day though....one day....

[Paltares8]

There was also a Turkish knock off called the Sar (Sarsilmaz) ST-10 that seemed great but got some not so shining reviews, so I passed on that.

[David S.]

Right on. It's a quality piece that I'm sure it will serve you well.

[BigT]

Just a note that doesn't seem to have been touched on. If your P07 is in Da mode i.e. Hammer forward you can't engage the safety at all.

[Paltares8]

I did not know that, thanks a lot for the heads up. I wonder why that is? I know some people would say its redundant to have the safety on in DA mode, but the option would certainly be nice. Regardless thanks again for mentioning that. If you happen to own one, you would have any IWB holster recommendations would you?

[Kyle Reese]

I did not know that, thanks a lot for the heads up. I wonder why that is? I know some people would say its redundant to have the safety on in DA mode, but the option would certainly be nice. Regardless thanks again for mentioning that. If you happen to own one, you would have any IWB holster recommendations would you?

JM Custom Kydex (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/)

[Paltares8]

Thanks a lot for the recommendation. I really like those.

[ReverendMeat]

Thanks a lot for the recommendation. I really like those.

http://www.customcarryconcepts.com/

There's another option. I have his "Uno version 2" for a different gun and it's a great IWB, especially for the price. Plus IIRC he offers a discount for members of this forum, and I think his lead time is a bit shorter than JM.

[Exurbankevin]

I've carried a P07 Duty for awhile now in a Crossbreed and quite like it. I also shoot the same gun in IDPA SSP.

As for the transition from striker to DA/SA, it's as big as a deal you make it to be. I'll carry an M&P Shield on occasion and shoot it in CCP*, and I've never once caught myself thinking "Ok, time to change my trigger press" and my scores don't change in any appreciable way.


* How much fun would it be to shoot a Walther CCP in that division at a match in Russia? That way, you could shoot a CCP in CCP in the former CCCP!

[JTQ]

I did not know that, thanks a lot for the heads up. I wonder why that is? I know some people would say its redundant to have the safety on in DA mode, but the option would certainly be nice. Regardless thanks again for mentioning that. If you happen to own one, you would have any IWB holster recommendations would you?
You need to make sure you either have an owners manual, and read it, or a friend that knows something about the CZ P-07 that can help you. A couple of guys have mentioned the guns operating controls, each more than once in this thread, and I'm not sure it has completely sunk in.

The CZ P-07 lever can either be configured as a safety or as a decocker. It won't do both at the same time. The "fella's" have commented, more than a few times, if you're using the safety lever, you would be better off using the gun as a single action and carrying it "cocked and locked". If you have the lever configured as a decocker, there is no manual safety. The gun should be decocked, and there is no manual safety.

[Paltares8]

Yea I'm actually about to pick it up on the 27th. I'm definitely one to read the manuals of stuff front to back a few times, especially of something I'm unfamiliar with. I will end up carrying cocked and locked, but was just going to do the safety on in DA for a while until I got used to it. I carry a striker fired now and being as it is my first gun, not ti mention experience with guns, I didn't even carry it cocked at first. I'm kind of figuring everything out for myself as I only know one person who is "in to" guns( my brother) but he sticks with rifles mainly. These forums, a couple people from my gun shop and range have taught me everything I couldn't figure out from common sense. And as someone said "its as big a deal as you make it", I don't think it will be, just wanted to hear what some people had to say, especially since it seems like there's a generation of shooters who've come up with striker fired pistols. I really like reading the discussion this started though. Thanks again everyone. I hope that new .22 Kadet kit for the P07 comes around soon

[JTQ]

... but was just going to do the safety on in DA for a while until I got used to it.
This is my point. Folks have commented more than a few times in this thread, the gun does not allow you to do this.

[Paltares8]

Yea, I got it. I was planning on doing that before someone said that it doesn't do that. As I said, I'll just do cocked and locked like with my sr9c.

[JTQ]

Yea I'm actually about to pick it up on the 27th.
Did you pick it up and what did you find?

[Paltares8]

Haven't picked it up yet. Getting it tomorrow. But my isn't coming with the decocker anyways. It was a limited run that comes with a light instead. The 27th was my wife and I's 3 year anniversary and by the time we had the kids with the babysitter they were closed anyways.

[Paltares8]

Just picked it up a little while ago. This thing is awesome. I'm trying to put a pic up, but when I choose my picture at the upload page it just won't load. Also I've found that the safety does work in the half cocked position just not completely dropped. Was hoping to be able to hit the range on the way home but it wasn't in the cards. Regardless I'm very pleased with the condition it's in. It was used, but I think whoever bought it wasn't a fan of the small CZ slides because there's no wear on it.