Woodworkers and Wood Shops

[rob_s]

The house we bought last year has an 800 SF shop on the property. Two 10' high rollup doors, 18' ceiling, etc. As it's always been a dream of mine to have a nice wood shop, I've been slowly working on that process. So far I have a rolling work table with two layers of 3/4" plywood on top, and an 8' long built-in bench against one wall, which currently holds my chop saw. I also have an old Harbor Freight bench with my drill press and band saw on it. Immediate plays are hardboard sheathing the table and bench, a rolling lumber cart to hold the scraps and such, and a rolling chop saw stand to go at one end of the built-in but that can be rolled out to be used elsewhere. Long-term goals are a table saw (hopoing sub-$1k) and central vac. Longer-term includes central compressed air piped around the walls. Long-long-long term is to build a loft along the back wall for storage, etc.

Anyone else into woodworking? Have a shop? Advice on proceeding? Specifically as relates to the table-saw and central vac purchases?

Built-in and rolling work surfaces shown here. I've added a power strip to each end of the bench, and one under the work table since the pic. next steps here are the sheathing as well as drilling holes every 6" or so on the work table to make clamping easier. You can see (a) why I want a better compressor and (b) why I want the lumber cart.

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[JV_]

I do a bit of wood working.

What kind of table saw are you considering? A more portable type, like a contractor saw, or a (less portable) self standing unit? If the latter, make sure it's a belt driven / induction motor setup. And, don't pay for a feed table, make one.

[rob_s]

This is the saw I want
http://www.rockler.com/jet-10-proshop-table-saw-w-30-fence-cast-iron-wings-riving-knife


But this is probably what I'll wind up with
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw/G0771


the good news is that the shop has an attached guest house which is wired for a kitchen that isn't used, so I potentially have some 220 circuits if I need them. The bad news is that the shop isn't wired for it now, so I'd have to get an electrician involved, possibly run exposed conduit, etc. I figure that both the table saw and dust-collector can be purchased as 110-120v and then converted later if I get serious.

The dust collector I'm considering, BTW. I looked at the Harbor freight, and doing a custom separator... the damn Grizzly winds up being only $50 more and it's ready to go out of the box, plus as the remote.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-2-HP-Cyclone-Dust-Collector-Polar-Bear-Series/G0703P

Because it's "on sale" I may do the dust collector first.

[JV_]

If you don't get the Jet, don't overlook Delta saws. I would check out the 36-5000 and 36-725. If you have a Lowes near you, they probably have the 36-725.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm rather partial to Delta table saws- I've ripped literal tons of wood on one that pretty much just sits in an open shed in the moist and humid tropics, and it just keeps going.
Sadly, my generous neighbor with the well equipped wood shop has moved away. I do have access to our mission's shop, but it's a bit of a walk to get there.
No worries- how many bass guitars does a guy need? I've built about 9 in PNG, and twice that in the USA.

[rob_s]

I've been considering Delta, but it sounds like they got sold in the last couple of years, and quality took the predictable nose-dive.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/34363/updated-stanley-sells-delta-tools-to-taiwanese-company

In fairness, I've seen far more reports of "they are now owned by Taiwan, the quality will suck!" posts than "I have a Delta made in 2015 and it's a POS".

Jet seems to be universally liked, with the only predictable criticism being that they are expensive. That's not a bad thing, IMO.

[The Apprentice]

I've mostly switched to hand tools and only kept my chopsaw and old craftsman table saw for home projects. The chop saw grenaded its self this last fall when I was redoing the siding. I will say hand tools are a slippery slope they can get real expencive real fast.

[pablo]

From what i see in your picture I would lay the lumber down flat, it'll start to warp leaning up against a wall like that.

I have a Jet bandsaw and drill press, they are nice. Powermatic and Jet are owned by the same company.

I have Sawstop 36" contractor saw, it's worth every penny. I'm more careful about not accidentally touching the blade and trashing the blade and brake, than I ever was about not cutting off a finger.

A good thin kerf blade that's kept sharp will make up for a lot of power.

Is your shop wired on a single 20amp circuit? If it is running a saw and dust collection probably won't work out.

If you can run the dust collector outside or in a small shed and that'll keep all the fine dust out of the shop and cut way down on noise.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/3-HP-Dust-Collector-with-Aluminum-Impeller-Polar-Bear-Series/G1030Z2P

I'd rather run this outside than a vortex collector inside.

I'm a fan of pipe clamps. They don't twist or get out of alignment.

[rob_s]

From what i see in your picture I would lay the lumber down flat, it'll start to warp leaning up against a wall like that.
Yep, hence the lumber cart plan. I've been messing with modifying this design a bit.


Is your shop wired on a single 20amp circuit? If it is running a saw and dust collection probably won't work out.
The panel has at least two for the outlets. I need to track down which circuit goes to which outlet(s). I'm pretty sure one circuit does all the outlet around the two walls you see in the picture, and the other circuit does the other two walls. I think I'll be able to split them across the two, hopefully.


If you can run the dust collector outside or in a small shed and that'll keep all the fine dust out of the shop and cut way down on noise.
Unfortunately I doubt I'll be able to put the whole thing outside, but I *might* be able to at least vent the fines to the outside. if so, I'll do something with a Harbor Freight Collector and a Dust Deputy, but it would require cutting a hole in the wall and I'm not sure I'm ready to commit to that.


I'm a fan of pipe clamps. They don't twist or get out of alignment. Good to know. I've been meaning to add some of those.

[The Apprentice]

I also like pipe clamps mostly because I'm a pipe fitter and had a bunch of 3/4 stainless left over from a job so I cut and threaded a bunch of it now I dont have to worry about them staining the wood. I use the rockler ones because of the added clearance but I think some of the othe manufactures have copied the design.

[pablo]

I also like pipe clamps mostly because I'm a pipe fitter and had a bunch of 3/4 stainless left over from a job so I cut and threaded a bunch of it now I dont have to worry about them staining the wood. I use the rockler ones because of the added clearance but I think some of the othe manufactures have copied the design.

What kind of stainless? I use black pipe and wax paper, I've found that galvanized pipe is too slippery.

[Rich@CCC]

I'd keep an eye out for estate sales and such. Look for an older Delta Unisaw. They don't get much nicer. I'd have one but my shop has to be all portable as it's very small and multi purpose.

I do have an old Delta scroll saw that weighs about 200lbs. I have no room for it but I will not give it up.

[rob_s]

I've been doing some more digging about re: lumber storage. Since I have so much space, and so much VERTICAL space, I want to (a) have a good supply of the basics on-hand at any time (couple of sheets of /4", couple of sheets of 1/2", various 2x, etc.) and (b) I think storing it vertically may be a better option for me. I was originally planning on doing one of these
http://www.shopnotes.com/images/issues/055/roll-around-store-all-medium.jpg

But that's going to take up a bunch of horizontal wall space, and require a bunch of wood and time to build, and require moving it all the time to get to the back. It looks like the prevailing wisdom is that vertical storage is OK provided you provide a sloped, somewhat continuous, backing for the wood to be supported along it's length.

[pablo]

http://toolhead.co.uk/pallet-projects/pallet-wood-storage-cart-made-pallets/

I made something like this without the casters. I don't keep much lumber on hand and got rid of it. It was functional as a lumber rack, but I would put some wax paper between your good lumber and the pallets to avoid staining, and go over the pallets with a fine tooth comb for wayward staples and tacks.

Now i just store everything flat on pallets on the floor.

[rob_s]

Been chugging away a bit here and there. Oddly, I went to a gun shop today at lunch and found myself thinking I'd rather spend my shotgun money on a table saw...


Got the hardboard laid down on the rolling table, now working on getting it drilled out with 3/4" holes for bench dogs, etc.
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Got my shitty old vice mounted too, even though I didn't account properly for the washers. Wing nuts so I can remove it if I need the whole surface. Pink scooter as a floor creeper, pink kitty helmet 'cause safety is #1...
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Going to use the drill guide to get the wholes perpendicular, and to aid in dust collection.
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Planning on building a BBQ cart as my first non-shop-project.
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[The Apprentice]

304 stainless never had a problem with them slipping.

[rob_s]

Got the holes drilled this AM

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[EricP]

Depending on where you think you might go, I'd add a jointer, surface planer, and bandsaw.

I'll second the suggestions to go with a cabinet saw over a contractor. Look for something with a good fence, one that locks down solid and stays parallel to the blade.

My last suggestion is to base everything else off the height of your table saw. Having the ability to support heavy and expensive stock is crucial. When certain species of 3/4" hardwood plywood are over $100 a sheet, you don't want to be trying to hold the thing from falling off the back side of the saw. The assembly benches at the shop I worked in were the outfeed tables of our saws.

[rob_s]

My last suggestion is to base everything else off the height of your table saw. Having the ability to support heavy and expensive stock is crucial. When certain species of 3/4" hardwood plywood are over $100 a sheet, you don't want to be trying to hold the thing from falling off the back side of the saw. The assembly benches at the shop I worked in were the outfeed tables of our saws.

This is the reason I haven't fully locked-down on the height of the rolling work table. I plan to adjust to fit the table saw for the exact reason you mention.

[rob_s]

Any electricians around?

I should know this, being in the construction business, but my role is more about the people than the trades...

Turns out I have one wall on one 20 AMP circuit, and another wall on another 20 AMP. They are run through one conduit run from the panel around the two sides of the room, so presumably the wires for both circuits are in the pipe.

What I'd like to do is wire each duplex so that the top outlet is circuit A, and the bottom outlet is circuit B. I believe this is possible by breaking the tabs on the duplex before installing it. I believe I'd need to bridge the two breakers, for safety, so that if the top outlet trips the breaker on circuit A, it also trips B so the entire duplex is dead.

Any thoughts on this?

[Rich@CCC]

http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/using-two-pole-breaker-feed-split-wired-receptacles-break-tabs

Found the above. It suggests that code only allows for the un grounded wire's tab to be removed and would require a double pole breaker in this instance.

Personally, I'd run two complete circuits(2 neutral, 2 hot and 2 ground wires) and feed them with a double pole breaker. Since you are in conduit already, this should be easy unless the conduit is small enough that this would over fill it.

[rob_s]

Made a little organizational progress over the last couple of weekends.

edit
will have to try to rotate photos, they uploaded at 90 degrees.

[Malamute]

Not an electrician, but think what you said will work. Don't know of bridging is necessary.

Id suggest a full 4x8 infeed and outfeed table available for table saw. Having a full length space to handle 16' pieces in and out feed is nice at times and is part of my woodshop plan.

A router table is very nice for some tasks. (upside down router mounted)

A bench mounted belt sander is also part of my plan, though my shop will be metal/gun stuff as well as wood.

I see no problem thinking about using shotgun money for a woodshop. How many do you already have? Theres more to life than lots of guns. A good shop can bring a lot of satisfaction and fun creating things.

[txdpd]

Speaking of electrical outlets don't forget to take the covers off at least once a year and vacuum them out. Saw dust will accumulate in them and is a fire risk, a low risk but an avoidable one. A couple years worth of saw dust, a loose connection that arcs, something flammable like oily rags nearby, and suddenly you have a shop burning to the ground. Kid proof covers on plugs will help too.

[rob_s]

My new thought on the outlets was to pop one of the knockouts out of each box and put a second box above each of the first so I could have two duplex outlets at each location with each being on a different circuit. Probably color code the boxes so I know what I'm plugged in to. and I could color-code the breakers too.

In the bottom picture you can see the chop saw and shop vac, with the extension cord running from the auto switch to an outlet on the other wall so that the vac and saw aren't on the same circuit.

Truthfully, I probably just need to get an electrician out to give me all the power I want. I should be able to have three 220/240V circuits (table saw, compressor, dust collector) and several 110V circuits so I never have a power problem. I'm not sure that the sub-panel will support all of that though.

[Lex Luthier]

Did you ever figure out your dust collection scheme? If not, I'd recommend this book https://www.amazon.com/Dust-Control-Simple-Step-Step/dp/1600852483/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= The author is a mutual friend, and I have worked in shops that he has laid out. He is the current SME in the field.
Another thing you might want to consider is some form of humidity control. For what *I* do, it is absolutely essential to a good result.

The suggestion made upthread for a cabinet-type table saw with a fixed base is a good one. Contractor's saws can be made stable enough, but to really get it dialled in, a heavy base is king.
It does take some work to lay out your shop so you can efficiently plan for your needs.

Again, another suggestion for Mr Nagyszalanczy and his books: https://www.amazon.com/Setting-Up-Shop-Practical-Designing/dp/1561588385 Some of them might be available at the local library for perusal. I bought my copies used, because us luthiers are poor and often cheap. (or is that vice-versa?)


Lex Luthier

[rob_s]

I haven't settled on the dust collection, or table saw for that matter, quite yet. Although I'm leaning heavily towards the Ridgid table saw, understanding exactly what I'm getting into with it, simply because I don't want to sink the money into the power upgrades just yet and from everything I read the 110v "cabinet saws" aren't really up to par with the 220v versions.

I've been considering the Shop Fox Cyclone (https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1823-Portable-Collector/dp/B004XLRWSK) dust collector.

[txdpd]

I haven't settled on the dust collection, or table saw for that matter, quite yet. Although I'm leaning heavily towards the Ridgid table saw, understanding exactly what I'm getting into with it, simply because I don't want to sink the money into the power upgrades just yet and from everything I read the 110v "cabinet saws" aren't really up to par with the 220v versions.

I've been considering the Shop Fox Cyclone (https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1823-Portable-Collector/dp/B004XLRWSK) dust collector.

The Rigid/Grizzly/Craftsman contractor saws can have some alignment issues by design. Some are fine out of the box, some can be fixed, some are defective. I think the Delta 36-725 from Lowes would be a better choice in the same price range.

The next step up would be a Jet Xacta or Saw Stop cabinet saw.

[rob_s]

The Rigid/Grizzly/Craftsman contractor saws can have some alignment issues by design. Some are fine out of the box, some can be fixed, some are defective. I think the Delta 36-725 from Lowes would be a better choice in the same price range.

The next step up would be a Jet Xacta or Saw Stop cabinet saw.

Yep, understood. But the Delta isn't available in my area, can't even have it shipped in, and the other saws you mention push over $1k even for a "contractor" style.

Im well aware what I'm potentially getting into with the Ridgid (although the number of people that cite alignment issues and the number of people that have actually HAD alignment issue is 100:1 at least), but for me right now it's pretty much a $600 saw or no saw and the used market here is shite.


ETA:
Well hell, looks like the 725 IS available here. I even checked on the 15 amp Delta and found that Lowes will order those to our area now too. Might be considering the 725 after all. Thanks for inviting me to go look again!

[rob_s]

This is how I get stuck on a slippery slope...

The Ridgid is $530, but the Delta is $600. So then it's not much of a jump to the Grizzly G0715P (http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series/G0715P?utm_campaign=zPage) at $850, right? Except, of course, that it's not $850 it's $950 shipped and I need the mobile base at $100 shipped... What how'd I wind up with a $1k saw instead of a $500 saw?!

[lwt16]

Spend the cash and get a good cabinet saw.

Years ago, I had a 400 square foot woodshop and had the following stuffed in it:

Delta Unisaw
Delta 5hp Shaper
Delta 15 inch surface planer
Jet 6 inch joiner
Delta drill press (can't remember the model or size but it was the biggest one Lowes had)
Delta scroll saw
Delta band saw
and all sorts of hand tools, power tools, clamps, jigs, etc.

All wood storage was overhead in the loft as I was way outta room on the floor. You will love having that much space for a wood shop. Really miss those days.

[rob_s]

I hear that over and over again re: the cost of the saw, and obviously I get the correlary and lessons learned in firearms, but I just can't justify having a $2k saw, $2k dust-collector, plus the cost of the electrician sunk into a shop that my current life gives me essentially no time to work in. In this case I think I'm better off buying the Spike's Tactical of saws, with eyes wide open, rather than the SR-15.

I'm also encouraged by the number of "youtube woodworkers" I see producing pretty amazing things with just Ryobi and Ridgid tools. Kind of makes it seem silly to go spend $2k on equipment that will just sit there except for maybe one day a month.

I really do want to do a loft for storage in the back of the shop. The 18' ceilings are pretty much totally lost on us. For now, some vertical lumber storage will have to do, and it will go over in the corner where the blue clamps are in the last picture.

I'm discovering that there are two kinds of "shop guys". There are guys that just want to be in the shop for whatever reason(often seemingly to escape whoever is in the house) and for them spinning wheels working on "shop projects" like chop saw stands, work benches, tool walls, dust-collector-baffles, etc. are *not* a waste of time because the point is simply being in there. Then there are guys that want to be in the shop for as little time as possible for whatever reason(often seemingly to get back to whoever is in the house) who tend more towards buying things like chop saw stands and pre-built dust-collectors because shop projects are a waste of time.

This is how I wound up with the chop saw cart in the picture. What I thought I wanted to do was to build my own, from scratch, based on multiple designs online but customized for me... turns out I'm way happier having the saw on a stand than waiting around for the time to design and build the custom cart.

On that note, I don't really have time for the loft build. That time could be better spent doing projects of similar construction like the well pump house I want, the shed roof over the shop doors, etc. So instead I'm buying two of these (http://www.woodcraft.com/product/152860/portamate-6-shelf-wood-rack.aspx).

[Lex Luthier]

Two words: Used tools.

Everything that goes into buying a used firearm/car/etc applies, but you can get some *very good* values that way. Use the money saved on the electrician and a good dedicated dust collection system.
(I work with woods that can actually make your lungs bleed or give you a possibly fatal allergic reaction. I plan on investing into a positive pressure mask system soon.)

My lutherie mentor uses a cast-iron 14" bandsaw that was built in the 1890s to use an overhead belt for power; it was converted to electric sometime in the 1930s, and upgraded with new bearings* and tires about 10 years back. Good stuff lasts, and the time spent tuning tools -within reason- will pay back an almost infinite amount. The pro woodworkers I know almost always will buy used over new.


*it's umpteenth set, no doubt

[rob_s]

Two words: Used tools.

Everything that goes into buying a used firearm/car/etc applies, but you can get some *very good* values that way. Use the money saved on the electrician and a good dedicated dust collection system.
(I work with woods that can actually make your lungs bleed or give you a possibly fatal allergic reaction. I plan on investing into a positive pressure mask system soon.)

My lutherie mentor uses a cast-iron 14" bandsaw that was built in the 1890s to use an overhead belt for power; it was converted to electric sometime in the 1930s, and upgraded with new bearings* and tires about 10 years back. Good stuff lasts, and the time spent tuning tools -within reason- will pay back an almost infinite amount. The pro woodworkers I know almost always will buy used over new.


*it's umpteenth set, no doubt

I wish that was an option here. It might even be, if you know where to look. But I live in a third-world country where craigslist is clogged with ads for chicken feet when you search "table saw".

and I'm not a shopper/dickerer/tinkerer. My experience in the past has been all you get with used is the previoius owner's headaches (see also your examples of firearms and cars, and tack on houses).

[txdpd]

You can do a lot good work with a contractor saw. The power needs of commercial users who process large amount of sheet goods and thick hardwood, are often carried over as "needs" for the home user. 1.5HP and a the right thin kerf blade will cover most home jobs. A cabinet maker that's going to run the several hundred feet of sheet goods on the blade is going to need a wider kerf and more power to spin the blade as it dulls. The table space and larger rip that generally comes with cabinet saws is nice to have. The 1.5hp saws really start to show their lack of power when running a dado stack.

A decent 110v contractor saw, a track saw, and a router will run half the cost of a 220v cabinet saw and sub panel. You can do most of the work, just not at one station. On the plus side it's much easier to push a contractor saw to the corner of the shop and have room for other stuff.

[rob_s]

You can do a lot good work with a contractor saw. The power needs of commercial users who process large amount of sheet goods and thick hardwood, are often carried over as "needs" for the home user. 1.5HP and a the right thin kerf blade will cover most home jobs. A cabinet maker that's going to run the several hundred feet of sheet goods on the blade is going to need a wider kerf and more power to spin the blade as it dulls. The table space and larger rip that generally comes with cabinet saws is nice to have. The 1.5hp saws really start to show their lack of power when running a dado stack.

A decent 110v contractor saw, a track saw, and a router will run half the cost of a 220v cabinet saw and sub panel. You can do most of the work, just not at one station. On the plus side it's much easier to push a contractor saw to the corner of the shop and have room for other stuff.

That's kinda my take as well. I just got a Dewalt trim router with plunge base a couple of weeks ago and it's GREAT. I have an older Porter Cable 1/2" router that's a beast, but this little Dewalt is so much nicer to use.

I saw one review that suggests that the Delta will cut a full 3.5", which is rare in a 10" table saw, so I'm excited about that as well.

When I hit the lotto we'll have the power company drop a new meter and I'll go with the 220v compressor, table saw, dust collector, band saw, and drill press but until then I think I'm going to have to make do with 110v options, which is certainly still a first-world problem.

[rob_s]

Interesting that it's been almost a year since posting to this thread. With a job, two little girls, and a woman of the house that loves to travel and vacation, the shop has gotten used far less than I'd like or had anticipated.

I finally just bit down on the Ridgid table saw, only to be blessed with a cast iron top so warped that it's impossible to get the blade 90 degrees to the top on both sides of the blade. So now, after spending a half day assembling the saw and trying to get it set up, I have to roll the thing into the back of the truck and drag it 45 minutes back into town to return it to the Home Despot.

Which has me sort of questioning all of this shop stuff. I obviously know from shooting that there is a minimum cost to passable entry in any hobby. What I thought I knew from that was that I couldn't get a $300 table saw (Taurus?) to run but I thought that I could get a $600 saw to run (Glock?) without having to go to the $3,000 saw (Wilson?). Evidently I had this wrong. Evidently it's quite expensive to get a table saw of such quality as to largely ensure that the top is serviceable. I have a friend that has the same Ridgid and while he has been quite happy with his it turns out that his is just as bad as mine, he just didn't know it. Which leads me to believe that, much like guns, many people are such infrequent users of their tools that they don't even realize what a POS they own.

Now I find myself considering that the cost of a decent table saw (not to mention all the other money I've already thrown out the window on outfitting this shop, which has not been insignificant) may be better spent on a pool table, a ping pong table, a kegerator, and two window shaker AC units to make the space tolerable in Florida. Plus the fact that we're two years into the house and I'm under full revolt to just go out and buy all that furniture I was thinking I was going to build.

[rob_s]

So, again with long time coming, after the debacle of the Ridgid, and after missing out on getting in under Grizzly's new-year price increases, I finally went ahead and ordered a Grizzly G0833P (http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series/G0833P?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com) table saw. it's a 2 HP, capable of running on 120 or 240v, and I ordered the $10 part to change it over to 120v in case my shop electrical upgrades are feasible. I'm currently fighting with the electrical contractor about his pricing, not because I think his price is wrong but because I think he's not understanding what I'm asking him to do, which in turn is driving up the price. I may well wind up having to pull my own wire to make this all happen, which sucks mostly because I don't want to be spending shop time playing amateur electrician.

All that said, I'm excited about the table saw. still haven't gotten the shipping notification of any sort and it comes freight so there will be some logistical crap to figure out, especially as we are on a dead-end road.

[EVP]

Awesome thread!

I will be following this, as my wife and I are planning to do the same.

[orionz06]

I obviously know from shooting that there is a minimum cost to passable entry in any hobby. What I thought I knew from that was that I couldn't get a $300 table saw (Taurus?) to run but I thought that I could get a $600 saw to run (Glock?) without having to go to the $3,000 saw (Wilson?). Evidently I had this wrong. Evidently it's quite expensive to get a table saw of such quality as to largely ensure that the top is serviceable.

<SNIP>

Which leads me to believe that, much like guns, many people are such infrequent users of their tools that they don't even realize what a POS they own.

I do believe in most cases the firearms world is one of the few where we have a Glock level product that produces results well above their cost.


Woodworking, like shooting, has loads of participants who are more enamored with the process and just doing it rather than the end result and the product. Also remember that some folks just mow the grass to get away from their wives.



Woodworking, I've found, to get into a decent level of gear is more costly than imagined. Most of the Big Box store products aren't capable of producing what I think we'd want.

[Spartan1980]

Either find a good used OLD Delta Unisaw or go with a Grizzly cabinet saw. I got luck and found one that was in a vo-tech. I did some work on it, and it's ready for another 50 years or so.

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[rob_s]

It’s here!

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[rob_s]

Got the saw up on the rolling base. Electrician will be here tomorrow to do some other work, including changing out all of the lights for LED, and I'll be able to figure out what I need to do to get my 240v for the saw, and hopefully some other power.

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More importantly, I got a project done, which consists of a clothing rack for our guesthouse. You can see more of it at this link (http://lumberjocks.com/projects/366265).

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[orionz06]

What lights are you going with? I'm debating on full LED for the shop area and limited heat garage (winters...).

[rob_s]

I don't even know. I got so tired of the lighting rabbit hole. I'm doing whatever the electrician shows up with.

I do know that we're doing ballast bypass and re-wiring the existing fixtures. The ceilings are 16-18' high so they have to bring in a lift.

[Cookie Monster]

Living the dream. Nice work on the clothing rack.

One day it will be just me and the garage and a table saw all day after shooting guns in the morning.

[rob_s]

Saw is up and running. Currently 1mm out on a 6"x6" square plywood cut. I'd like it to be more better but I can work on it. The cuts on this saw are so much more easier and less freakish than they were on the Ridgid contractor saw. Definitely worth 2x the price already.

First startup.


https://youtu.be/uJYVOZilYYg

[Lex Luthier]

1mm on a 6 x 6 inch cut? Not bad from straight off the crate. How thick was the plywood stock, and was it the stock blade?

[Spartan1980]

Saw is up and running. Currently 1mm out on a 6"x6" square plywood cut. I'd like it to be more better but I can work on it. The cuts on this saw are so much more easier and less freakish than they were on the Ridgid contractor saw. Definitely worth 2x the price already.

First startup.


https://youtu.be/uJYVOZilYYg

Run some more cuts checking it with the blade at varying heights. The Grizzly hybrid saws have a history of the trunnion moving out of alignment at different heights (only on the hybrids). I really hope Grizzly got this problem lined out, it's the one reason I went with a full blown cabinet saw. I just got lucky finding my Unisaw as I was fixing to drive up to the MO and pick up a G1023.

Wow! I just looked and their prices have really went up in the last couple of years. I really like most of Grizzly's stuff. :(
If yours is that accurate at various blade heights I'd consider it fine and that saw should last you a good long time.

[rob_s]

1mm on a 6 x 6 inch cut? Not bad from straight off the crate. How thick was the plywood stock, and was it the stock blade?

1/4” plywood. And that was after squaring the blade to the slot and then the fence to the slot.


Run some more cuts checking it with the blade at varying heights. The Grizzly hybrid saws have a history of the trunnion moving out of alignment at different heights (only on the hybrids). I really hope Grizzly got this problem lined out, it's the one reason I went with a full blown cabinet saw. I just got lucky finding my Unisaw as I was fixing to drive up to the MO and pick up a G1023.

Wow! I just looked and their prices have really went up in the last couple of years. I really like most of Grizzly's stuff. :(
If yours is that accurate at various blade heights I'd consider it fine and that saw should last you a good long time.

Yeah they have an annual price increase. I could have gotten this saw for ~$300 less 3 months ago.

I’ve heard about the trunnion issues and my next plan of attack is to check that as well. This is a pretty new design for them so I’m hoping it’s been addressed. I’ve not read of those issues with this model.

[rob_s]

I made some progress in the shop over the weekend.

In shop news I got my outfeed table built, got a 20' cord added to the saw. Let me get my layout "finalized".
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and in project news, I built my first ever cabinet carcass. I learned a ton doing it and have three more to do with those lessons learned.
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[rob_s]

Well, travel softball put a major dent in the production, but finally got the carcasses finished and... finished? Used Polycrilyc, hoping there's no issues in the hot humid garage. Still have to make the shelves themselves but I'm hoping that goes quick.

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[SD]

Looking to add a 6" jointer in the work shop and would appreciate hearing feedback from those making saw dust. Discovered there are way more options/brands then i realized in this market. The price range median is $1k but could get pushed up if for instance if helical cutters are a must, ect. Thanks

[mtnbkr]

Looking to add a 6" jointer in the work shop and would appreciate hearing feedback from those making saw dust. Discovered there are way more options/brands then i realized in this market. The price range median is $1k but could get pushed up if for instance if helical cutters are a must, ect. Thanks

I only have experience with the Powermatic 54HH (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Powermatic-54HH-115-Volt-230-Volt-1HP-1PH-Jointer-1791317K/308560999) (or a very similar model). The guy that owns it upgraded the cutters to helical. It was great for working with large boards and really spoiled me.

Between that and his Powermatic Planer and his other equipment, we built the bench below using cedar from a tree my MIL planted as a young girl. The only non-cedar wood used were the domino and peg joinery we used.

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Chris

[Joe in PNG]

My latest:
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I've added pickup rings since.

[OlongJohnson]

Maybe this isn’t the thread for it, but if we’re showing off guitars, there should be a thread around here somewhere for our custom DIY revolver and pistol stocks.

[txdpd]

If you need it, a 230v jointer a 6” with helical cutter will handle just about anything you can throw at it. Toys are cool, but if you don’t really need it, it’s an expensive tool with a large footprint.

Before you buy a jointer have you tried router table or table saw setup, and what didn’t you like about it? What are planning on doing with the jointer.

[SD]

34333looking to advance my wood working skills towards furniture/cabinets. Wife told me she wanted to park her car in the garage and my wood & tools needed to be moved, soooo.
Two story 24x30x12' barn with 9x30 covered porch. Wish I was building it with friends & family but my network is 12 hour drive.
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[txdpd]

I wouldn’t buy a jointer in your position. Honestly if you don’t have a Sawstop cabinet saw, and you got money to burn, that would be a better place to start. The safety aspect is great, but the aren’t much more than comparably built saws.

Jointer is good for volume and longer lengths of wood, especially hard woods, but you don’t need one to build furniture.

[willie]

I lurk on woodshop forums. Look there for good advice from nice folks--like here but different equipment.

[mtnbkr]

I wouldn’t buy a jointer in your position. Honestly if you don’t have a Sawstop cabinet saw, and you got money to burn, that would be a better place to start. The safety aspect is great, but the aren’t much more than comparably built saws.

Jointer is good for volume and longer lengths of wood, especially hard woods, but you don’t need one to build furniture.

I don't know how much I don't know about woodworking, but a jointer was one of those tools that really clicked for me. I don't know why, but between the jointer and planer (both Powermatic), I found myself able to do things I couldn't do before. The top of the bench above is actually two boards we connected by running the edges over the jointer, then used the domino joiner (Festool) and glue to join them. After the glue cured, we ran the board through the planer and drum sander. After final finishing, you can't see or feel the seam where the two boards come together (close inspection may reveal grain discrepancies).

My buddy also has a Sawstop saw. Not only is a great saw (I've only used crap tablesaws before, but this thing is awesome), the safety aspect is impressive. Someone who knew what they were doing could probably do what needed to be done with just the saw, but I found the jointer useful all the same.


I lurk on woodshop forums. Look there for good advice from nice folks--like here but different equipment.
The two woodworkers I know are super helpful and freely offer their time. It's as if they're trying to spread the disease. :)

Chris

[Toonces]

The price range median is $1k but could get pushed up if for instance if helical cutters are a must, ect. Thanks

After completing an extensive home addition/remodel with a LOT of help from my Dad, I bought him a Grizzly 15" planer with the helical cutterhead (Instead of a nice rifle that he would never shoot. The rifle is what we agreed upon...). He had a 12" Craftsman 3 blade unit that he had used for 20 years. After he got the Grizzly set up, he called the Craftsman with the 3 straight blades a Model T compared to the Grizzly's modern Corvette. He was shocked with how smooth and quiet the helical Grizzly was. And he's kinda a grumpy old man that's not easily impressed.

Roughly a year ago, I read an article in a rather fancy woodworking magazine (Fine Woodworking?) that compared various cabinet saws. Not only was the Sawstop the only one that wouldn't cut your hand off, but it had the best arbor runout and miter gage slot runout to blade of the entire test. It was beating the Powermatic and Delta saws. Don't ask for links, I'm four Old Fashioneds into a bachelor weekend...

TLDR, Helical cutterheads and Sawstop FTW...

[txdpd]

I don't know how much I don't know about woodworking, but a jointer was one of those tools that really clicked for me. I don't know why, but between the jointer and planer (both Powermatic), I found myself able to do things I couldn't do before. The top of the bench above is actually two boards we connected by running the edges over the jointer, then used the domino joiner (Festool) and glue to join them. After the glue cured, we ran the board through the planer and drum sander. After final finishing, you can't see or feel the seam where the two boards come together (close inspection may reveal grain discrepancies).

My buddy also has a Sawstop saw. Not only is a great saw (I've only used crap tablesaws before, but this thing is awesome), the safety aspect is impressive. Someone who knew what they were doing could probably do what needed to be done with just the saw, but I found the jointer useful all the same.


The two woodworkers I know are super helpful and freely offer their time. It's as if they're trying to spread the disease. :)

Chris

I won't deny that a jointer is very handy on longer boards.

High waste method but easy to do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrYjc3G1vgo

Lower waste method but harder to setup after the first time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N-WJs7F9fA

Router Method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

Other ways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8pVGyFu6PQ

[mtnbkr]

I won't deny that a jointer is very handy on longer boards.

High waste method but easy to do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrYjc3G1vgo

Lower waste method but harder to setup after the first time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N-WJs7F9fA

Router Method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

Other ways
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8pVGyFu6PQ

Thanks! Those were educational. I still have a pile of cedar left that I want to do *things* with, but I didn't want to "invite" myself over to my friend's house just to use his tools. One of the major hurdles was the lack of a jointer because I have a number of slabs that are too narrow for my projects (1"x8"x8' straight from the mill). I can chop those boards to the rough length I need, then use one of the methods above to clean up the edges.

Chris

[SD]

Saw Stop is very impressive, a friend has one of the higher end saws but he is a finish carpenter and his niche market is doctor office's. Talking with him about his preferences it surprised me that he prefers his panel saw for much of his work in the shop being he works by himself. For the time being my old belt drive Delta table saw is still working, it is 20 years old and had to have the motor replaced once already. I will update once the jointer is setup, thanks for the input it is very appreciated.

[Trigger]

Sliding table saws are very nice, I have one and swear by it. The key advantage is that you can lock/clamp the work to the sliding table and step away from the blade. Keeps the fingers and such safe. This is my fourth table saw, and will likely be my last.

One thing that no one discusses, but I feel is important—Dust collection. Fine wood dust can be carcinogenic, the finer it is, the more unhealthy it is. Simple felt bag dust collectors are worse than nothing. I chose a ClearVue cyclone: https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/. Highly recommended.

I have a sliding saw + shaper, a jointer + planer and a bandsaw. I use the bandsaw the most, especially for small projects. It is also the safest with no kickback.

I’ve used it all to build half the furniture in the house, build the kitchen cabinets from scratch, build about 10 rifle stocks and much more. Good tools are safer and last forever.

Buy good saw blades and a wide Lenox carbide bandsaw blade. Indispensable. For 10” saws I like the Forrest blades. For my sliding saw, I love the Tenryu blades.

[Trigger]

I will also make a pitch for digital measuring tools in the wood shop. I use a Height finder gauge and a set of digital calipers a lot. http://wixey.com/index.html

I used to make a test cut, adjust the Saw, make another test cut, adjust, and repeat 4 or 5 times. Now I set up the machine. Make a test cut, measure the error, and use the digital measuring tools to adjust the machine to the exact amount of error to remove. Makes my work faster and much more accurate.

And scrapers. Get a set of cabinet scrapers and learn how to sharpen and burnish them. OMG have they saved me a lot of time I would have spent sanding. They literally saved me hundreds of hours during finishing in the kitchen cabinet renovation. You can very quickly scrape to a finish smoother than 400 grit, then apply some shellac to seal, and rescrape to a very smooth finish. Easily 1000 grit. Then apply your finish of choice and enjoy. I use polyurethane over shellac, and love it. This would be a laborious process with sandpaper, yet is quite quick with a good set of scrapers.

[rob_s]

I think I’ve settled on bandsaw and planer. Going to order these up in the done the next day or two.

https://www.toolnut.com/rikon-10-326-14-deluxe-band-saw.html

https://www.toolnut.com/rikon-25-130h-13-portable-planer-with-helical-cutterhead.html

Probably need some sort of 4” duct collection for the planer, which will be good because I also need something for the table saw.

[rob_s]

Converted the bed boards from our camper-van into a folding table for the campervan. It seems most of my to-do list of late is related to campervan and tiki hut, two things we didn’t have pre-Covid! :p

https://www.facebook.com/359481364395631/posts/1412702802406810/

[whomever]

Looking to add a 6" jointer in the work shop and would appreciate hearing feedback from those making saw dust. Discovered there are way more options/brands then i realized in this market. The price range median is $1k but could get pushed up if for instance if helical cutters are a must, ect. Thanks

FWIW, I've been happy with my ancient 'classic' Delta. Those have shorter tables than some of the newer ones; you have to be careful with boards longer than 4 or 5 feet because they hang so far off the tables it takes a lot of downforce to keep them straight. But most of the boards I joint are less than 4 feet, so it's fine. Mine, of course, has conventional straight blades. I have two sets so I can swap in a sharp set and get the old ones sharpened when convenient.

There isn't anything wrong with the high end ones, to be sure, but you can make straight boards on any of them, as long as the tables are straight. That would be my one concern with any of them ... it seems like QC these days isn't always that great. I'd want to know what the plan was if you unload one off the truck and the tables aren't straight/parallel. If there is any way to inspect one first that would be a win.

=====

On the question of should you get a jointer ... it was a revelation when I got a jointer and planer ... all of a sudden I was starting with straight, square, flat boards, and so all of a sudden my joinery started working. You can make straight, square, flat boards with a set of good hand planes, windage sticks, and so on, but it's an order of magnitude or two faster with a jointer and planer.

[SD]

Appreciate the information you shared. Within a few months after having my dream shop completed (2 story 24'x32' barn) my wife informed me of an opportunity she had to promote. After careful consideration we packed up our tent and moved further South again! Next month we are moving again having found a home to purchase. The wood shop will be on hold for a couple of years need to have a pool put in and that will drain off my $ completely. Also my wood working equipment needs have shifted to a chainsaw and tractor, maybe i should consider logs to lumber.

[rob_s]

Last of the RV projects (for now)! Built out some shelves in the “closet” behind the driver’s seat in our van.


https://www.facebook.com/359481364395631/posts/1415685432108547/

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[rob_s]

I thought I recalled that we had a dedicated woodworking thread...

Shelf for the new smoke oven..

Haven’t mounted it just yet.

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