RCMP training in wake of Moncton shootings

[Wendell]

RCMP Chief Supt. Eric Stubbs said officers will be provided with adequate ammunition for training each year. All members are now entitled to a free annual allotment of practice ammunition in order to remain proficient with their firearms skills. “This includes 300 carbine rounds, 200 9-mm pistol rounds and 25 shotgun rounds,” he said.

http://www.24news.ca/the-news/canada-news/200204-thousands-of-rcmp-given-long-gun-training-in-wake-of-moncton-shootings
<http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/rcmp-update-implementation-macneil-recommendations>

[Trooper224]

Annual allotment of 200 pistol rounds, wow. (sarcasm)

[Chuck Haggard]

Odd, since it's obvious to anyone who knows anything about the subject that it's easier to shoot carbines than it is pistols, that they went heavier on the carbine ammo.

[Malamute]

So the implication of this is that they didn't get ANY "free" practice ammo before?

[Chuck Haggard]

So the implication of this is that they didn't get ANY "free" practice ammo before?

Most jobs don't give out free ammo in my experience.

[DpdG]

So the implication of this is that they didn't get ANY "free" practice ammo before?


That is much more common that many outside the profession realize. Varies from agency to agency, but there is no industry standard or best practice for ammo outside of formalized and regimented training and qualifications.

[Gray222]

When this happened I was listening to it over their radio. Very messed up day.

That said those officers were very undergunned and they lost officers due to not only poor tactics but being under equipped. Badguy had a 308 I believe.

[TheNewbie]

When this happened I was listening to it over their radio. Very messed up day.

That said those officers were very undergunned and they lost officers due to not only poor tactics but being under equipped. Badguy had a 308 I believe.

Do you work as an officer in Canada?

[psalms144.1]

So the implication of this is that they didn't get ANY "free" practice ammo before?My agency used to allot 50 rounds of "proficiency" ammunition/agent/month. That went away recently, so now we allocate no ammunition for agents to use for private training - all ammunition is used during quarterly training days.

[Peally]

Annual allotment of 200 pistol rounds, wow. (sarcasm)

Think of how baller they're going to be with a shotgun after 25 rounds.

[TheNewbie]

I am issued a P226R DAK in .357 sig. We get ammunition for quals and that's about it. Sometimes you might have 20-30 extra rounds given to you.

If they gave us unlimited .357 sig, I wouldn't mind carrying the round. Having to purchase your own makes 9mm even more attractive.

[HCM]

I am issued a P226R DAK in .357 sig. We get ammunition for quals and that's about it. Sometimes you might have 20-30 extra rounds given to you.

If they gave us unlimited .357 sig, I wouldn't mind carrying the round. Having to purchase your own makes 9mm even more attractive.

A 9mm conversion barrel or caliber exchange kit could pay for itself pretty quickly.

[rjohnson4405]

A 9mm conversion barrel or caliber exchange kit could pay for itself pretty quickly.

Had 229 I bought in 40 and got .357/9mm barrel for.

Switch barrel and recoil spring, it would work great.

[HCM]

My agency used to allot 50 rounds of "proficiency" ammunition/agent/month. That went away recently, so now we allocate no ammunition for agents to use for private training - all ammunition is used during quarterly training days.

You can thank all the tinfoil hat assholes complaining about "DHS buying all the ammo to supply the UN black helicopter crews".

[psalms144.1]

HCM - The de-allocation of proficiency ammo primarily torques me off because practically NO ONE ever shot it. Which meant, once a quarter, I could go around to every agent in the office and say, "here's your 150 rounds of proficiency ammo for the quarter," to which most would reply "no thanks." Since it was already "expended" when I pulled it out of the safe, I always ended up with about 1,000 rounds/quarter that I would use for my own training.

Now we're ALMOST to the point of recording, by name, every round issued, by lot number on the box. I've had some folks in the ammunition side of the house tell me I can ONLY issue and agent 37 rounds of JHP at the end of a range session (we get three 12-round magazines each, +1 to top off). My response to that suggestion is pretty graphic, even for this forum, as I have to count every round of ammunition BACK into the safe at the end of a range day - I'll be dipped in sheep doo if I'm going to open a bunch of "light boxes" and check that there's 13 rounds left in each one.

As of today, four years, 17 days and a wake-up to retirement...

[Gray222]

Do you work as an officer in Canada?

No, their radios werent encrypted at the time and it was available for anyone to listen to.

[HCM]

HCM - The de-allocation of proficiency ammo primarily torques me off because practically NO ONE ever shot it. Which meant, once a quarter, I could go around to every agent in the office and say, "here's your 150 rounds of proficiency ammo for the quarter," to which most would reply "no thanks." Since it was already "expended" when I pulled it out of the safe, I always ended up with about 1,000 rounds/quarter that I would use for my own training.

Now we're ALMOST to the point of recording, by name, every round issued, by lot number on the box. I've had some folks in the ammunition side of the house tell me I can ONLY issue and agent 37 rounds of JHP at the end of a range session (we get three 12-round magazines each, +1 to top off). My response to that suggestion is pretty graphic, even for this forum, as I have to count every round of ammunition BACK into the safe at the end of a range day - I'll be dipped in sheep doo if I'm going to open a bunch of "light boxes" and check that there's 13 rounds left in each one.

As of today, four years, 17 days and a wake-up to retirement...

We are in a similar situation as are the USBP. We previously issued 250 rounds per quarter. 150 plus 100 practice for those who wanted it - with the caveat they had to shoot it. They could not sell it or give it away. It pisses me off even more because we DO have agents who shoot it. Check your PMs.

[LSP972]

I've had some folks in the ammunition side of the house tell me I can ONLY issue and agent 37 rounds of JHP at the end of a range session (we get three 12-round magazines each, +1 to top off).

Buddy of mine who recently went through FFDO re-qual said the same thing. They used to get tossed a full box of "duty ammo" at the conclusion of training/quals. This time, they were handed 37 rounds for their issue USPc .40 and three magazines. I was, like, WTF??? Now it makes sense. But you can bet that the FB Ones are not so restricted…

.

[LSP972]

Regarding the Canadian po-lice and practicing on their own dime, it was my understanding that they are like the military; show up for a tour of duty, draw your piece, and hit the bricks. Turn in the piece at quitting time. No takey-home-the-company-gun for them.

Same deal with the Mounties, I wonder?

.

[TheNewbie]

Regarding the Canadian po-lice and practicing on their own dime, it was my understanding that they are like the military; show up for a tour of duty, draw your piece, and hit the bricks. Turn in the piece at quitting time. No takey-home-the-company-gun for them.

Same deal with the Mounties, I wonder?

.

I think it's the same for everyone. Even if you get permission to take it home it has to be locked up from what I read.

I read an article about some town chief trying to get it approved so his officers could carry their guns on the way to work.

[LtDave]

AZ DPS recently started the same accountability for every round nonsense. They also cut the number of hours Troopers can be at the range on the biannual range days.

At my old PD in CA, virtually no one would take advantage of free ammo for practice, and we had a range in the basement that was available 24-7.

[LSP552]

Now we're ALMOST to the point of recording, by name, every round issued, by lot number on the box. I've had some folks in the ammunition side of the house tell me I can ONLY issue and agent 37 rounds of JHP at the end of a range session (we get three 12-round magazines each, +1 to top off). My response to that suggestion is pretty graphic, even for this forum, as I have to count every round of ammunition BACK into the safe at the end of a range day - I'll be dipped in sheep doo if I'm going to open a bunch of "light boxes" and check that there's 13 rounds left in each one.

As of today, four years, 17 days and a wake-up to retirement...

I'm sorry, but that is just nuts! LSP972 will remember a former LSP Training Academy Capt. who attempted an equally idiotic counting ammo by the box, even instructor proficiency ammo. Didn't last long, but was a major pain in the ass while it did. Said moron went on to become a Deputy Superintendent. Funny how that happens........

[HopetonBrown]

My local Sheriff's officers get 1,000 rounds of HST a year for practice.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Regarding the Canadian po-lice and practicing on their own dime, it was my understanding that they are like the military; show up for a tour of duty, draw your piece, and hit the bricks. Turn in the piece at quitting time. No takey-home-the-company-gun for them.

Same deal with the Mounties, I wonder?

.
That varies wildly by region and detachment.

Eastern Canada is typically prohibitive.

Western Canada not so much.

Some departments are very open with off-duty carry, and training ammo.

Some not.

Locally, I've had police give me boxes and boxes of ammo at the end of training days because they'd received huge allotments and it wasn't tracked and they could always get more.

The RCMP tends to be way more stringent, and way less progressive about training.

My local force of several hundred get suppressed C8s for their cars if they want, and it's been that way for years. The biggest local force has a massive training facility with ranges that would make most shooters drool and an armoury that's got everything from Thompsons to franken-precision-ARs.

Meanwhile, the RCMP still issue ratbagged 5946s and repair and replacement is often at the discretion of managerial staff who get bonuses for limiting expenditures.

Total shitmix.

[LSP972]

I'm sorry, but that is just nuts! LSP972 will remember a former LSP Training Academy Capt. who attempted an equally idiotic counting ammo by the box, even instructor proficiency ammo. Didn't last long, but was a major pain in the ass while it did. Said moron went on to become a Deputy Superintendent. Funny how that happens........

Ah, yes… the super-special TAAMS (Training Academy Ammunition Management System).

Really sad how the bean counters and feather merchants always rise to the top. That particular waste of protoplasm was as bad as it gets.

.

[LSP972]

That varies wildly by region and detachment.

Eastern Canada is typically prohibitive.

Western Canada not so much.

Some departments are very open with off-duty carry, and training ammo.

Some not.

Locally, I've had police give me boxes and boxes of ammo at the end of training days because they'd received huge allotments and it wasn't tracked and they could always get more.

The RCMP tends to be way more stringent, and way less progressive about training.

My local force of several hundred get suppressed C8s for their cars if they want, and it's been that way for years. The biggest local force has a massive training facility with ranges that would make most shooters drool and an armoury that's got everything from Thompsons to franken-precision-ARs.

Meanwhile, the RCMP still issue ratbagged 5946s and repair and replacement is often at the discretion of managerial staff who get bonuses for limiting expenditures.

Total shitmix.

Interesting; and sad. Thanks.

For some reason, I was under the impression that RCMP issued Sigs?

.

[Gray222]

...i get 100 rnds a day, mon to fri....as long as i show up to the range in duty gear....

Dont hate me

[SLG]

...But you can bet that the FB Ones are not so restricted…

.

I assume you mention that to show that not all agencies suck, and that the Bu clearly takes the lives of its agents and the public more seriously than those agencies that don't give practice ammo out. I agree completely, and it is good to see an agency that doesn't treat it members or the public like cannon fodder.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Interesting; and sad. Thanks.

For some reason, I was under the impression that RCMP issued Sigs?

.
No such luck. 5946s with triggers in the 10-12 pound range.

[SLG]

No such luck. 5946s with triggers in the 10-12 pound range.

The 5946 is a very shootable gun, with one of th better DA triggers out there, but I could swear I've worked with RCMP guys who had 226's.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Well, it's possible that there are units out there that have some variation among special uits - the original Joint Task Force up here had a bunch of RCMP involved in that, and CSOR definitely uses the 226 so there may have been some special allowance made, and I know a very high-speed individual who worked with a G17 (although I have no idea if that was even legal).

But in general, 5946s by the thousand, and they range from actually pretty smooth (if heavy) triggers to total smashfests with 3-4 hitches and pops, in each direction.

I've seen a couple of guys just kill it with them, though, which is always impressive.

[WobblyPossum]

...i get 100 rnds a day, mon to fri....as long as i show up to the range in duty gear....

Dont hate me

I don't hate you, but I'm incredibly jealous right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LSP972]

I assume you mention that to show that not all agencies suck, and that the Bu clearly takes the lives of its agents and the public more seriously than those agencies that don't give practice ammo out.

Well… not exactly.

But I guess that works too.;)

.

[SLG]

Well… not exactly.

But I guess that works too.;)

.

Well, i was trying to make you look good. Since the Bu has absolutely nothing to do with other agency 's unfortunate practices, it would seem to silly to mention them in a sour grapes way.

#curmudgensarepeopletoo

[Wendell]

Regarding the Canadian po-lice and practicing on their own dime, it was my understanding that they are like the military; show up for a tour of duty, draw your piece, and hit the bricks. Turn in the piece at quitting time. No takey-home-the-company-gun for them. Same deal with the Mounties, I wonder?

Members are often 'on call', from home. Those members can take their issued weapons home. These members are also issued storage containers, for these weapons, to be installed in their homes.

[Wendell]

Interesting; and sad. Thanks.

For some reason, I was under the impression that RCMP issued Sigs?

ERT had Sigs before the other members got auto pistols. Old ERT members might still have their old Sig, but new ERT members get a blackened no-mag-disconnect 5946.

(AFAIK.)

[TheNewbie]

That varies wildly by region and detachment.

Eastern Canada is typically prohibitive.

Western Canada not so much.

Some departments are very open with off-duty carry, and training ammo.

Some not.

Locally, I've had police give me boxes and boxes of ammo at the end of training days because they'd received huge allotments and it wasn't tracked and they could always get more.

The RCMP tends to be way more stringent, and way less progressive about training.

My local force of several hundred get suppressed C8s for their cars if they want, and it's been that way for years. The biggest local force has a massive training facility with ranges that would make most shooters drool and an armoury that's got everything from Thompsons to franken-precision-ARs.

Meanwhile, the RCMP still issue ratbagged 5946s and repair and replacement is often at the discretion of managerial staff who get bonuses for limiting expenditures.

Total shitmix.


I thought off duty carry in Canada was basically a no no. Do some agencies actually allow it?

Can regular joes carry concealed handguns under any conditions in Canada?

Thanks for your information!

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I'd say it's mostly verboten but in the west it's by department AFAIK. And some have traditionally been pretty...relaxed.

For non-LE, concealed carry is NYC rare.

[TheNewbie]

I'd say it's mostly verboten but in the west it's by department AFAIK. And some have traditionally been pretty...relaxed.

For non-LE, concealed carry is NYC rare.

I have researched this some, and when I read Canadian police responses on forums, most say it is not needed up your way. A few wanted to be able to carry though.

Still I can't see the logic of letting guys carry guns certain hours of the week but not others. I am sure it will be that way here in a few years.

When I was in Vancouver police wise I felt like I was in the states.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Yeah, it's generally probably not needed but it depends where you are and obviously you never know WHEN it's going to turn out to have been needed.

The VPD is a big outfit and iirc they've gone back and forth on off-duty carry.

But in general, there is just so much less random violent crime that I'm not really surprised that a lot of police don't even see the need.

[TheNewbie]

Yeah, it's generally probably not needed but it depends where you are and obviously you never know WHEN it's going to turn out to have been needed.

The VPD is a big outfit and iirc they've gone back and forth on off-duty carry.

But in general, there is just so much less random violent crime that I'm not really surprised that a lot of police don't even see the need.

The funny thing is even here I'm not so sure I need to carry off duty. Even the people I have dealt with on the job are friendly to me if I run into them. Though I'm still glad I can.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Yeah, I mean the vast majority of people on this forum have probably gone thousands of consecutive days without drawing for anything other than practise, and this has got to be about the carry-est forum around...chances are pretty good that if we all just put our guns in a drawer, after ten years we'd maybe have a couple of documented incidents of forum members who really would have benefited from their guns not being in that drawer.

But then we'd probably see something similar if we all agreed to stop wearing seatbelts, so obviously I'm totally sympathetic to the value of handguns, and naturally being one of the few Canadians here, I'm like the crazy kicked-out-of-the-NRA-for-being-too-pro-2A guy by my country's standards, so I thoroughly believe that the RIGHT is not dependent on the immediate NEED, nor the statistical probability of use for a given individual.

But yeah, in Canada, it does basically boil down to: if you're regularly putting away Hell's Angels, or you're in a remote rural community...damn right you probably want to carry off-duty, and you're probably allowed.


That might be one interesting quirk from the American perspective: up here it's tiny remote communities, where ironically the RCMP is almost always the police force, where police are most likely carrying off-duty, because it's the tiny hamlets where they're more likely to get shot at, and in some cases backup is hours and hours away.

We have fly-in towns up north where you'd better believe the one cop in town is strapped in his pyjamas. Some of those places are fknuts scary. And even the remote places with roads are sometimes very, very dangerous and underpoliced.

Conversely, I literally work in the worst part of the worst part of town in any major city west of Toronto (west of Buffalo for the uneducated) and in the big grocery store next to the biggest subway station for kilometres in any direction...there's a bunch of unguarded self-scan checkouts because almost nothing gets stolen. There's one security guard wandering the building doing nothing.

I mean in a city of around 3 million, our recent record high total of murders and suspicious deaths (in 2013) was 53.

[HCM]

Yeah, I mean the vast majority of people on this forum have probably gone thousands of consecutive days without drawing for anything other than practise, and this has got to be about the carry-est forum around...chances are pretty good that if we all just put our guns in a drawer, after ten years we'd maybe have a couple of documented incidents of forum members who really would have benefited from their guns not being in that drawer.

But then we'd probably see something similar if we all agreed to stop wearing seatbelts, so obviously I'm totally sympathetic to the value of handguns, and naturally being one of the few Canadians here, I'm like the crazy kicked-out-of-the-NRA-for-being-too-pro-2A guy by my country's standards, so I thoroughly believe that the RIGHT is not dependent on the immediate NEED, nor the statistical probability of use for a given individual.

But yeah, in Canada, it does basically boil down to: if you're regularly putting away Hell's Angels, or you're in a remote rural community...damn right you probably want to carry off-duty, and you're probably allowed.


That might be one interesting quirk from the American perspective: up here it's tiny remote communities, where ironically the RCMP is almost always the police force, where police are most likely carrying off-duty, because it's the tiny hamlets where they're more likely to get shot at, and in some cases backup is hours and hours away.

We have fly-in towns up north where you'd better believe the one cop in town is strapped in his pyjamas. Some of those places are fknuts scary. And even the remote places with roads are sometimes very, very dangerous and underpoliced.

Conversely, I literally work in the worst part of the worst part of town in any major city west of Toronto (west of Buffalo for the uneducated) and in the big grocery store next to the biggest subway station for kilometres in any direction...there's a bunch of unguarded self-scan checkouts because almost nothing gets stolen. There's one security guard wandering the building doing nothing.

I mean in a city of around 3 million, our recent record high total of murders and suspicious deaths (in 2013) was 53.

That works for.the same reason the Swiss don't have U.S. Crime rates - because y'all are Swiss or in your case Canadian. Where as Americans are fucking crazy. It's just part of who we are.

That said, the last guy who tried to pull a gun on me was a previously deported Canadian outlaw motorcycle gang member. It was a pretty nice Colt trooper Mark III - since this is pistol forum.

Retaliation by former customers is not the only reason law enforcement officers should carry off-duty. Another is, although you may be off duty there is a tendency to react to things "like a cop ". I have not been in an off-duty shooting but having a gun on me has been handy a few times over the years.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Well, if there's one thing I'm in support of, it's allowing concealed carry, so I don't want to appear to be anything but supportive of doing so.

And it's also true that as much as we're "Canadians" up here the same way the Swiss are "Swiss", we've actually imported enough people who are only a few years deep in Canadian tradition and culture that we're actually losing the ability to do things in traditionally Canadian ways. There was a time when pretty much the whole country acted like rural Wisconsin and things were extremely predictable in terms of crime; that time is over unless you go to places that are the equivalent of rural Wisconsin up here.

And then there's the reserve system, which has created these horrendous ghettos that are often quite dangerous...I know a cop who took fire from a full-auto .30 cal (very likely an AK) on the edge of one a number of years ago and I can think of other incidents involving rifle fire from multiple shooters on a reserve not too far from here, although that's more frequently intimidation than anything else.

But we really do not have United States Grade A beefs up here. I have never, ever, ever been to a gas station in this country at which I wasn't 100% confident of being able to read a book while pumping gas at 3 am. And I'm pretty sure I've been to at least a third of the gas stations in the country.

[TheNewbie]

Speaking of importing new people....

What is your take on bringing the Syrian Refugees into Canada? I know someone very involved in that, and she just could not comprehend that they may not be able to assimilate well in a country with liberal western values.

If I make it back to Canada, I would love to do a ride along just to see the differences.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I was pretty supportive of the previous government's idea of bringing in a significantly smaller number of Syrian refugees, prioritizing religious minorities that would be likely targets of muslim extremists.

I'm also okay with the idea of bringing in larger numbers of women and children. In fact if the government announced that they were bringing in a hundred thousand Syrian refugees, all of whom were women and children, I'd probably back that financially.

I'm completely against the idea of bringing in tens of thousands of Syrian refugees that can't and won't be screened adequately, particularly since this commitment was made with the sole intention of demonstrating the difference between the current government and the previous one. I'm against the idea that we should be bringing in large numbers of military-aged males. I'm very skeptical of the ability of large groups of any culture to assimilate, but then in Canada, "assimilation" is not an accepted term. But even the relatively benign groups we've allowed in, in large numbers, have formed large enclaves which are almost exclusively populated by their own group.

In fact I have been extremely unimpressed with our general immigration policy, which has been very undiscriminating in terms of marrying incoming people to the existing culture. In fact, much like a lot of nordic states, the unofficial line in Canada has often been some semblance of "there is no Canadian culture to absorb, so just bring whatever you like from your country".

And now, to my immense frustration, we have a Prime Minister who's specifically stated that there is no such thing as Canadian culture, and we're eliminating the requirement to speak either official language as a condition of citizenship - even though as anyone who lives in a major city can tell you, in the past, only rudiments have been required. But even that was apparently too much. So the official line is now much worse than the previous, politically correct, unofficial line.

So no, I'm not happy about it. I don't particularly fear that there are sleeper agents being imported or anything; my concern is basically cultural. I deal with a lot of Somalian, Indian, and Pakistani immigrants, and while I don't expect specific, planned, infiltration by ISIS adherents, I do expect we'll see some fairly incompatible values and I don't like that. If you're familiar with the Air India bombing, for example, the issue was not that we imported organized terrorists and murderers per se, but that we imported a fertile ground for extant beliefs to flourish.

On top of that, part of the reason my wife and I moved out of the area we used to live in was that she got tired of being verbally harassed by men (when alone, obviously...they weren't suicide attacks) primarily from the three countries mentioned above.

And, like a lot of guys, I'd guess, I'd pretty much condemn an entire city to death if it reduced the likelihood of my wife feeling frightened or upset, so leaving people in refugee camps...yeah, that wouldn't even make me blink.

And that's not even touching on the news out of Europe about the...integration difficulties.

I'm not sure when you were last in Vancouver but if it wasn't recently you should definitely come up and look around if radical cultural shifts caused by immigration interest you. Let me know if you do.

[LSP972]

Since the Bu has absolutely nothing to do with other agency 's unfortunate practices...

That was my point.

Silly? Okay.

.

[LSP972]

ERT had Sigs before the other members got auto pistols. Old ERT members might still have their old Sig, but new ERT members get a blackened no-mag-disconnect 5946.

(AFAIK.)

Got it, thanks.


.

[SLG]

That was my point.

Silly? Okay.

.

I guess I'm lost then, so I apologize for misunderstanding and thinking something else.

[Wendell]

Two RCMP members at different detachments in New Brunswick, who said they can't speak publicly about issues within the force, were responding to comments by RCMP Assistant Commissioner Roger Brown who recently said there was a carbine in every police car. "To me it seemed like an outright lie to the public to say, 'Yep, we've got it, it's all under control,"' one officer said in an interview. "I'm sitting in my patrol car right now and there's no carbine. I have the shotgun. No one on my team has access to the carbine right now, so it's there but nobody can use it." The officers say they have access to the guns in their offices, but they or their colleagues can't use them because they haven't received the required training. Another officer in a different New Brunswick detachment also said he has access to the carbines, but sometimes fewer than half the people he works with on a shift are trained on how to use it. "There might be a carbine for every car, but you can't put a carbine in every car if the member's not trained," he said. "A carbine in every car? That's not the case."
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/mounties-challenge-claim-that-carbines-are-in-every-patrol-vehicle-1.2792679

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Word is the RCMP is buying them in 300 gun lots, because that's as many as the purchasers are allowed to order at a time.

That's going to be a long, slow process.

[Gadfly]

Just pulled ammo for Monday/Tuesday range qual. We are still giving out one box of practice ammo per gun (50 primary, 50 for backup). I don't think I will use all this ammo. But 80/90% will get shot in training.

Like MCH, We are much tighter with our ammo since the post Sandy Hook/DHS/Jade Helm/Obama is buying up all the ammo to kill Americans bullshit. (Ted Cruz was part of killing our generous ammo budget...).


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160227/d3d037fa99eff0294cc11fc7597c99dd.jpg

[Wendell]

Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) was developed in response to a training gaps regarding how officers respond to high-risk critical threats. Chief Supt. Eric Stubbs said the training consists of an indoor two-day course and a one-day outdoor course that all members have to complete within three years. Stubbs said the carbine course and IARD course are being delivered to all cadets at RCMP Depot immediately after they graduate. "Effective April 1, IARD will be mandatory for all members in the RCMP," said Stubbs. Advanced and dynamic shooting drills have been designed for the carbine and the pistol. All RCMP divisions must ensure that practice sessions with instructors are held each year. RCMP will also supply a free annual allotment of practice ammunition so members can train and remain proficient with their firearms. "The traditional course of fire has been replaced with the round-accountability system, which means all rounds fired must hit the target."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-update-macneill-report-1.3439798

[Wendell]

RCMP pleas on charges they violated the health and safety provisions of the Canada Labour Code in connection with the 2014 Moncton Mountie shootings have been delayed again. The charges, which relate to equipment, training and supervision, were recommended by the Public Prosecution Service of Canada last year after its investigation into the shooting deaths of three officers and the wounding of two others by gunman Justin Bourque. Bourque was armed with a M305 .308 semiautomatic rifle and a Mossberg 500 12-gauge shotgun, while the Mounties had to rely on pistols and shotguns. Issuing carbines to Mounties was a key recommendation of a 2011 inquiry into the deaths of four RCMP officers in Mayerthorpe, Atla, in 2005. The Moncton RCMP detachment did have some carbines at the time of the 2014 shooting, but no members were trained to use them. Employment and Social Development Canada, which is responsible for investigating the death of any federal government employee who dies on the job, laid the charges against the RCMP in May 2015. The national police force was expected to enter pleas and set a trial date in Moncton provincial court on Thursday afternoon, but the case has been adjourned until May 12 at 1:30 p.m.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-labour-code-charges-moncton-shootings-1.3524866 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-labour-code-charges-moncton-shootings-1.3524866)

[ak409]

You can find the independent review report at http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/independent-review-moncton-shooting-june-4-2014. The revised annual pistol course of fire rolled out in April, 2016.

[deputyG23]

Years ago, we had open range days once a month where a deputy could come and shoot one hundred rounds on his own time. There were three qualification courses shot twice a year at one hundred ten rounds per session.
Hardly anyone took advantage of the open range unless ordered to attend for remedial training.
The Great Recession killed our open range days and reduced our quals to once a year firing two courses for a total of eighty-six rounds. Not sufficient, in my view.

[Wendell]

The four charges stem from the RCMP's response to the shooting spree by Justin Bourque in June 2014. The RCMP previously pleaded not guilty to charges the force violated four health and safety provisions of the Canada Labour Code, and elected to be tried by a provincial court judge. The charges relate to equipment, training and supervision and were recommended by the Public Prosecution Service of Canada after its investigation into the Moncton shootings. Constables Fabrice Gevaudan, 45, Doug Larche, 40, and David Joseph Ross, 32, were shot and killed by Bourque, 24, as he made his way through a Moncton neighbourhood on the evening of June 4, 2014. Constables Darlene Goguen and Eric Dubois were wounded. Bourque was armed with a M305 .308 semiautomatic rifle and a Mossberg 500 12-gauge shotgun. The Mounties had to counter with pistols and shotguns because no members of the Codiac detachment were trained to use a carbine weapon, which is a high-powered, short-barrelled rifle with a longer accurate range than a pistol or shotgun. Bourque is serving five life sentences with no chance of parole for 75 years. Each of the four charges carries a maximum fine of $1 million. The charges include: Failing to provide RCMP members with appropriate use of force equipment and related user training when responding to an active threat or active shooter event; Failing to provide RCMP members with appropriate information, instruction and/or training to ensure their health and safety when responding to an active threat or active shooter event in an open environment; Failing to provide RCMP supervisory personnel with appropriate information, instruction and/or training to ensure the health and safety of RCMP members when responding to an active threat or active shooter event in an open environment; Failing to ensure the health and safety at work of every person employed by it, namely - RCMP members, was protected. No individual RCMP manager or supervisor is named in the charges.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-labour-code-trial-moncton-shootings-bourque-1.3924503 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-labour-code-trial-moncton-shootings-bourque-1.3924503)

[Wendell]

An article from the RCMP Gazette, Vol. 79, No. 1:

Firearms facelift
Training added to RCMP's annual pistol qualification
January 13, 2017 by Amelia Thatcher

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/gazette/firearms-facelift (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/gazette/firearms-facelift)

[Wendell]

The RCMP is being tried for alleged Labour Code violations stemming from its response to the Justin Bourque shootings, which also wounded two other officers. Crown attorney Paul Adams said Monday that the vast majority of the officers who responded to the active-shooter call on June 4 lacked full training and requalification in firearms.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1462680-trial-continues-for-rcmp-on-labour-code-violations-in-n.b.-shooting-rampage (http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1462680-trial-continues-for-rcmp-on-labour-code-violations-in-n.b.-shooting-rampage)

[Rex G]

RCMP Chief Supt. Eric Stubbs said officers will be provided with adequate ammunition for training each year. All members are now entitled to a free annual allotment of practice ammunition in order to remain proficient with their firearms skills. “This includes 300 carbine rounds, 200 9-mm pistol rounds and 25 shotgun rounds,” he said.

http://www.24news.ca/the-news/canada-news/200204-thousands-of-rcmp-given-long-gun-training-in-wake-of-moncton-shootings
<http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/rcmp-update-implementation-macneil-recommendations>

Well, if my math is correct, that is 300 more rifle rounds, 140 more pistol rounds, and 25 more shotgun rounds, than I am provided per year, most years. The 60 rounds I do get is for qual. A shotgun class, mandated for anyone wishing to keep carrying a shotgun, beyond a cut-off date, several years ago, provided several hundred shells. A mandated-for-all low-light/stress-shoot pistol class, in 2011, provided about 160-180 rounds per officer.

Some few elective classes are offered, some of which provide ammo. Most fill within hours, via computerized sign-up, so the day-shift officers tend to fill the classes, and even if the sign-up process gave everyone an equal chance to enroll, not nearly enough classes are offered. I did manage to enroll in Tactical Shotgun at the end of May, the first time I have managed to get scheduled for elective firearms training in several years.

I cannot carry a patrol rifle/carbine, but would gladly trade those 300 rifle rounds for pistol or shotgun ammo.

Of course, I do not depend upon my employer to provide me with either ammo or training.

All is not gloomy. Our range is available 24 hours, five days/nights a week. On the rare nights that staffing is adequate, I can get a sergeant's OK to drive to the range and shoot the qual course. I can also go to the range during my personal time. If the ammo inventory is adequate, I can buy 60 rounds for $5.00. If not, I use ammo that I bring with me.

[Wendell]

RCMP Supt. Bruce Stuart, an expert in tactical operations, told Moncton provincial court that he contributed to a threat risk assessment that would help determine how many carbines were needed and which divisions needed them most. The carbines were approved in September 2011, but the rollout took time. Stuart told Judge Leslie Jackson that senior management wanted to add financial components to the risk assessment. He said he attempted to stress that the threat risk assessment should not include “the influence of finances,” but the top brass did not see it that way.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/04/26/mountie-says-he-expressed-concerns-over-role-money-played-in-rifle-rollout-trial-hears.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/04/26/mountie-says-he-expressed-concerns-over-role-money-played-in-rifle-rollout-trial-hears.html)

[TheNewbie]

Well, if my math is correct, that is 300 more rifle rounds, 140 more pistol rounds, and 25 more shotgun rounds, than I am provided per year, most years. The 60 rounds I do get is for qual. A shotgun class, mandated for anyone wishing to keep carrying a shotgun, beyond a cut-off date, several years ago, provided several hundred shells. A mandated-for-all low-light/stress-shoot pistol class, in 2011, provided about 160-180 rounds per officer.

Some few elective classes are offered, some of which provide ammo. Most fill within hours, via computerized sign-up, so the day-shift officers tend to fill the classes, and even if the sign-up process gave everyone an equal chance to enroll, not nearly enough classes are offered. I did manage to enroll in Tactical Shotgun at the end of May, the first time I have managed to get scheduled for elective firearms training in several years.

I cannot carry a patrol rifle/carbine, but would gladly trade those 300 rifle rounds for pistol or shotgun ammo.

Of course, I do not depend upon my employer to provide me with either ammo or training.

All is not gloomy. Our range is available 24 hours, five days/nights a week. On the rare nights that staffing is adequate, I can get a sergeant's OK to drive to the range and shoot the qual course. I can also go to the range during my personal time. If the ammo inventory is adequate, I can buy 60 rounds for $5.00. If not, I use ammo that I bring with me.

If I didn't HATE being in the big city, I would do all I could to work at a place like that. How many officers are at the range during the late night hours?

[Rex G]

If I didn't HATE being in the big city, I would do all I could to work at a place like that. How many officers are at the range during the late night hours?

It varies. Near the end of a month, the procrastinators are having to get qual'ed. Near the beginning of the month, the early birds are shooting their quals. Sometimes, I will be the only one there, and that is nice, because I may be allowed to staple-up extra targets, and shoot more freely.

[Wendell]

A criminology professor who recommended in 2010 that the RCMP immediately adopt carbines for all uniformed officers testified Monday he got conflicting responses from the national police force. Darryl Davies, a professor at Carleton University in Ottawa, said the RCMP initially rejected his report in 2010 as being "inadequate," but by January 2011, he was thanked for the great job he had done and invited out to lunch. The about-face came after the inquest into the 2005 shooting deaths of four RCMP officers in Mayerthorpe, Alta., said Davies.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-trial-moncton-shootings-1.4093093 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-trial-moncton-shootings-1.4093093)

[Wendell]

According to Louis-Philippe Thériault, an officer in Moncton who worked the night of the shooting, and the national secretary of the Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada, about 95 per cent of front line members in Moncton have received carbine training since the shooting. There is now a carbine in the patrol car of every one of those officers who have been trained, he says, on every shift in case they need to take it out. "I'm probably taking out the carbine 20-30 times a year," says Thériault.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-macneil-recommendations-2017-1.4102029 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-macneil-recommendations-2017-1.4102029)

[ca survivor]

except the shotgun ammo, I use more than that in a two week time, spread in, 223, 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP and occasionally .357 or .44 mag, I'm a civilian though and pay for my own ammo and range.

[Wendell]

RCMP officers were caught outgunned and "ill-prepared" to confront a gunman who targeted them on a warm summer night in 2014, Judge Leslie Jackson ruled Friday as he convicted the national police force of failing to provide its members with adequate use-of-force equipment and user training. "It is clear to me that the use-of-force equipment available to those members on June 4, 2014, left them ill-prepared to engage an assailant armed with an automatic rifle," the provincial court judge said in his 64-page decision. Constables Fabrice Gevaudan, Dave Ross and Doug Larche were killed, while constables Eric Dubois and Darlene Goguen were injured in the shootings. The C8 carbine rifle was a central focus of the trial. Carbine rifles were approved for use in 2011, but their rollout was delayed on several occasions. They were not available to general duty officers at the time of the Moncton shootings, and numerous witnesses who testified said they could have made a difference.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/1507507-judge-convicts-rcmp-in-n.b.-massacre-saying-force-left-officers-ill-prepared (http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/1507507-judge-convicts-rcmp-in-n.b.-massacre-saying-force-left-officers-ill-prepared)

[John J. McCarthy, Jr.]

The RCMP loses a 12 on 1 shoot-out and the solution is to pass out free ammo?

http://www.anamericanwithagun.com/ (http://nope)

[HCM]

The RCMP loses a 12 on 1 shoot-out and the solution is to pass out free ammo?

http://www.anamericanwithagun.com/ (http://nope)

No - that is not "the" solution. Did you read the thread ?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

No - that is not "the" solution. Did you read the thread ?Or...anything?

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[Peally]

He's apparently just here to peddle his website.

[Wendell]

Cpl. Patrick Bouchard said he received a document stating that comments he made Sept. 29 were unacceptable, though he disagrees. Bouchard spoke out last month following a New Brunswick judge’s decision finding the RCMP guilty of failing to provide its members with adequate weapons and training in the 2014 Moncton shootings that killed Constables Fabrice Gevaudan, Dave Ross and Doug Larche and wounded two other officers. The 15 year veteran, who is stationed at the detachment in Miramichi, N.B. said the decision exposed the divide between RCMP’s top ranks and Mounties on the ground, noting a conspicuous absence of senior managers in the courtroom. Bouchard said a performance log indicated that due to his comments, which had been televised, he did not meet the “basic competencies” required by his position. The RCMP’s code of conduct requires its members “behave in a manner that is not likely to discredit the Force.”
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/rcmp-corporal-chided-for-criticizing-the-forces-response-to-moncton-shootings (http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/rcmp-corporal-chided-for-criticizing-the-forces-response-to-moncton-shootings)

[Wendell]

Re: ‘RCMP shooters don’t show respect,’ (Letter, The Guardian, Oct. 24).
http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/opinion/dave-hanson-rcmp-training-on-new-rifles-158502/ (http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/opinion/dave-hanson-rcmp-training-on-new-rifles-158502/)


...we need the public to support our national and regional police forces to conduct training that will benefit the public. Secondly, we need logical legislation to allow the over 2,000,000 licensed firearms owners in Canada safe and adequate places to pursue their pastime without others complaining that the new house they just built next to the local range is causing their PTSD to be aggravated. If this means the legalization of sound suppressors, then perhaps it makes sense. If you have PTSD that is aggravated by noise, then why build your house nearby an operating rifle range?

<http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/opinion/dave-hanson-rcmp-training-on-new-rifles-158502/>

[OlongJohnson]

21373

Also applies to race tracks.

[Wendell]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/codiac-regional-policing-authority-carbine-money-1.4391231 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/codiac-regional-policing-authority-carbine-money-1.4391231)


Senior-ranking officials of the RCMP often cited budgetary constraints at the trial as being a potential issue delaying the acquisition of carbines. The trial heard that after numerous studies, beginning in 2006, backed the use of carbine rifles for front-line officers, the weapon was finally approved by the RCMP's senior executive committee in September 2011. It was then up to each division to choose how many carbines they wanted to acquire, based on need and budget. New Brunswick's J-Division requested 22 carbines in 2012, and an additional 12 carbines for each of the following four years, the trial had heard. The request for funding came from Supt. Marlene Snowman, then-officer in charge of the Codiac division, who called it a "safety issue." The local authority gave $16,399.60 to the Codiac RCMP that February, and the remainder of the money was included in the 2013 and 2014 budgets, according to Charles Léger, a Moncton city councillor and chair of the Codiac Regional Policing Authority. Minutes from the February 2012 policing authority meeting reveal a sum of $16,399.60 approved for fiscal year 2012 for buying carbines and training, and $79,699.96 overall for three years. By the deadly night of June 4, 2014, Codiac had acquired a number of carbines, but it is not clear how many, or when they were purchased. No front-line officer in the local department was yet trained in how to use the guns. The night of the shootings, the carbines and several Codiac officers were at Base Gagetown, ready for the first round of training to begin. That delay — between the money being allocated in early 2012 and the first training set for June 2014 — is something the Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada wants explained. "What did we do with that money for those two years, two years and a half?" said Louis-Philippe Thériault, national secretary of the association and an RCMP member in Moncton. "Why did we not train the members? Is there someone that stopped Supt. Snowman from training the members, from acquiring the equipment?"

<http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/codiac-regional-policing-authority-carbine-money-1.4391231>

[Wendell]

(This was posted on TheGunBlog.ca back in August, but I didn't see it until today.)

RCMP’s Top Gun Suppliers 2016: Colt Canada, M.D. Charlton, S&W
(https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/) TheGunBlog.ca Analysis (https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/)Thursday 17 August 2017 (https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/)
<https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/>

[Casual Friday]

Double tap...

[Casual Friday]

(This was posted on TheGunBlog.ca back in August, but I didn't see it until today.)

RCMP’s Top Gun Suppliers 2016: Colt Canada, M.D. Charlton, S&W
(https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/) TheGunBlog.ca Analysis (https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/)Thursday 17 August 2017 (https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/)
<https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/>

I'd love to read it but I'm getting a malware warning.

[Wendell]

I'd love to read it but I'm getting a malware warning.

https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/



RCMP’s Suppliers of Weapons, Including Parts, in 2016 (Contracts > $10,000)


Rank
Name
Amount ($)


1
Colt Canada
2,683,866


2
M.D. Charlton
1,814,859


3
Smith & Wesson
1,049,235


4
Rampart International
576,514


5
Summit Canada
552,380


6
Mega-Tech
436,717


7
Korth Group
383,823


8
Wolverine Supplies
364,841


9
Gravel Agency
268,158


10
Calgary Shooting Centre
200,713


11
Questar International
71,102


12
911 Supply
63,090


13
C&R Developments
45,862


14
Production Case

38,724


15
Millbrook Tactical

35,962


16
Valley Associates

33,452


17
GP Tactical
20,997


18
Custom Hardware Distributors
20,684



19
Acklands-Grainger
17,157



20
Cubic Defense Applications
16,025


21
Tetragon-Tasse Distributors
13,113



TOTAL
8,707,274




https://thegunblog.ca/2017/08/17/rcmps-top-gun-suppliers-2016-colt-canada-m-d-charlton-sw/

[Wendell]

MONCTON, N.B. — The RCMP faces sentencing Friday for Labour Code violations in the 2014 Moncton, N.B., shooting rampage that left three officers dead — but a spokesman for members says the real work needs to come outside the courtroom. Terry McKee of the Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada says what's needed is accountability of the force's top brass. "The policing community as a whole is a victim out of this. It's purely as a result of the incompetence of the senior executives of the RCMP," McKee said. Constables Doug Larche, Fabrice Gevaudan and Dave Ross were killed, while constables Eric Dubois and Darlene Goguen were injured when gunman Justin Bourque went hunting police officers in a Moncton neighbourhood. The force was convicted of failing to provide its members with adequate use-of-force equipment and user training. Carbine rifles were not available to general duty officers at the time of the Moncton shootings, and during the trial, numerous witnesses said they could have made a difference. The high-powered carbines were approved in 2011, but their rollout was delayed on several occasions. Then-commissioner Bob Paulson testified during the RCMP's trial that management had concerns over the possible militarization of the force. McKee said he believes there may need to be a civil suit for senior brass to become accountable. "There have to be individuals held to accountability so that there can be true closure out of this," he said. McKee said even to have the force outline the changes that have been made since the Moncton shootings, it's too little, too late. "Members are still facing daily issues with safety, and it's purely because of lack of equipment or updated equipment not being provided," he said.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/1539801-rcmp-to-be-sentenced-in-moncton-shooting-spree-that-left-three-officers-dead

[Wendell]

The RCMP must pay a penalty of $550,000 after Judge Leslie Jackson ruled the national police force failed its officers during the June 2014 shooting in Moncton, N.B., that left three of them dead. "A sentence must speak to future leadership of RCMP that duty to ensure member safety should be given high priority," Jackson said. In September, Jackson ruled the police force failed to provide adequate equipment and training to the Mounties who responded to the shootings by Justin Bourque as he made his way through a Moncton neighbourhood on the evening of June 4, 2014. RCMP Constables Fabrice Gevaudan, Doug Larche and Dave Ross were killed. Two more officers were shot but survived.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-mountie-shootings-rcmp-sentencing-1.4504819


The judge said high-powered carbine rifles could have made a difference for RCMP officers targeted by gunman Justin Bourque as he roamed a Moncton neighbourhood in 2014. The carbines were approved in 2011, but their rollout was repeatedly delayed. "It is clear to me, and accepted by both parties, that the provision of carbines to responding members on June 4, 2014, could have reduced the number of deaths and/or injuries," Jackson said. Carbine rifles were not available to general duty officers at the time of the Moncton shootings, and numerous witnesses said at trial they could have made a difference. Then-commissioner Bob Paulson testified during the RCMP's trial that management had concerns over the possible militarization of the force. He told the court he worried the carbines could "distance the public from the police."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/rcmp-fined-in-wake-of-moncton-shooting-rampage-1.3776704

[Wendell]

Mounties carrying assault rifles at Prince George Canada Day celebrations sparks debate
The presence of police officers carrying large assault rifles at Canada Day celebrations in Prince George, B.C., has sparked controversy in the city. Photos of a Mountie holding a C8 carbine rifle at the city's family event circulated online, leading some people to question why such heavily armed officers are necessary. An opinion piece in a local newspaper titled "Leave the guns at home" fuelled the debate. Adrienne Smith, human rights lawyer in Vancouver, expressed concern at the time about the impact such a visible display of force can have. "That kind of display in police uniforms is triggering for some people," Smith said. "People fear for their lives and recall trauma that they have experienced, often at the hands of police forces here and elsewhere." Cpl. Craig Douglass, media liaison officer with Prince George RCMP, defended the decision and argues that greater security is needed in the wake of attacks in other cities over the past years. "There's been [shooting] events in the recent past, like Parliament Hill [in 2014] and Moncton [N.B., also in 2014], both in Canada and both something that wasn't a good result," he said. "Because of those, RCMP and other police forces in the country have stepped up their capabilities in this area." "We certainly don't want to put fear in anyone," Douglass said. "But the fact is, whether we have the gun on our hip or we have it slung over our shoulder, it's still a gun and it still has the same capabilities."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/prince-george-rcmp-assault-rifles-canada-day-1.4736530

[Peally]

Have you ever posted anything other than random news story links?

[WobblyPossum]

And if someone attacked the event, the public would have been complaining if officers didn't have the capability to stop the threat.

[Wendell]

TheGunBlog.ca — The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Canada’s largest police agency, comments below on its guns, firearm training, support and requirements for officers involved in shootings, and related topics.
https://thegunblog.ca/2019/07/05/rcmp-comments-on-firearm-training-officer-shootings-new-ar-15/

[blues]

TheGunBlog.ca — The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Canada’s largest police agency, comments below on its guns, firearm training, support and requirements for officers involved in shootings, and related topics.
https://thegunblog.ca/2019/07/05/rcmp-comments-on-firearm-training-officer-shootings-new-ar-15/

We used to work with them back in the day. I've worked with them on narcotics and arms smuggling cases in years past. Good bunch to work with and alongside. (And they even had a pub in their HQ!!!)

They had a permanent liaison assigned to the LE agencies in South FL who was great at greasing the skids.

[Wendell]

The plaintiffs, Constables Robert Nickerson, Shelly Mitchell, Martine Benoit and Mathieu Daigle, were among the first on the scene in the city's north end, when calls about a man walking down the street with a rifle came in. The officers only had duty pistols to defend themselves. All the plaintiffs say they have been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder stemming from the events of June 4, 2014. The lawsuits, filed against Canada's attorney general, hold the RCMP directly responsible for the harm done to the officers. The RCMP did not act with due diligence in rolling out the carbines, despite knowing of the potential grievous bodily harm or death that front-line officers faced," read the claims.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rcmp-lawsuit-moncton-shootings-1.5286461

[bshnt2015]

Some historical content, the NWMP(RCMP)who patrolled the "wild" frontier of western Canada used Winchester 1876 rifles. Currently RCMP members use the Colt C8 variant semi-auto rifle.
The image of the RCMP by the Canadian public is the RCMP is always marching around in their scarlet red uniform, not realistic for modern day police work. RCMP upper management clings onto this self self imposed image, it sparks traditions, professionalism, and "the look". I have family and friends serving in the RCMP and city police in Canada.

Today's Canadian police struggles with armed organized criminal gangs, violent offenders, and active shooters. Canada like the USA, is conflicted in how the police should respond, "tactical" or traditional policing(Bearcat rolling up the street or crown vic?) Does the RCMP need rifles, sure, there's a historical content. Will it scare the general public? Yes because the police look like a military solider. This is my opinion and does not reflect opinions of any members of the Canadian law enforcement community.


42694

42697

42696

[blues]

They've got their work cut out for them.

On one of my last cases involving RCMP we were investigating individuals straw purchasing various weapons in South FL, (semi-auto and automatic), and smuggling them up to Canada to support the Rock Machine MC during a war it was having with the Hells Angels.

I'm sure things haven't gotten much better since.

[Wendell]

The report, which is based on officers’ incident reports, showed Mounties have pointed firearms at people 5,441 times between 2017 and 2019, while the guns were simply brandished as a visual deterrent 3,062 times. Over the same time period, a conducted energy weapon was pointed on 995 occasions, and was drawn and displayed 504 times. The weapons were actually deployed a combined total of 1,438 times. According to the report, RCMP were involved in 99 officer-related shootings between 2017 and 2019, an average of 33 a year despite a dip in 2018. Of those shootings, 26 were fatal — an average of nine per year. Mounties also used “hard force” by hitting people — referred to as “stuns” and “strikes” in the report — over 2,000 times. Batons were used 105 times, while forceful takedowns were applied 842 times. Neck restraints were used 72 times.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7078781/rcmp-use-of-force-firearms-report/