PDA

View Full Version : Dillon 550 vs Hornady Lock'nLoad AP vs Lee Loadmaster vs Lee Classic Turret,GOT 550



LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 08:11 AM
Gents, I'm just starting out in reloading but I'm pretty handy with "figuring stuff out and tinkering" plus I have the resources of this board. The calibers I plan to reload for are 9mm, .300Blk, 5.56, and .308.

My budget really isn't at the Dillon 650 level. I can buy the LCT (Lee Classic Turret) complete kit (http://kempfgunshop.com/Kempf_Kit_w/_Lee_Classic_Turret_Press_-90064Kit-6575.html) for around $200 and it will serve me well, be easy to learn, albeit slow. I can buy the Lee Loadmaster for $255 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003DO5L3G/) and it will be much faster than the LCT but will need a bit of tinkering and upgrades (there is a forum dedicated to this) to get it running. The Hornady AP is at $424 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PD01NS/) but it looks like I will need to spend a bit more money on upgrades and parts. However, the Hornady AP is allegedly just as fast as a Dillon 650 once set up and running. The Dillon 550 is at the very upper edge of my budget but it is a "safe" choice.

Do I take a chance on the Hornady AP or Lee Loadmaster and just spend the time to get them up and running? Shall I just stay low with my ambitions for now and buy the LCT, see how it goes? Shall I just piecemeal the Dillon 550?

Please bear in mind that I have that gunshot elbow on my strong arm. The less turret pulls per round, the better. However, it's not huge priority, rather just something worth considering.

#Dillon550 (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Dillon550)

GNiner
02-10-2016, 08:53 AM
How much shooting do you do? I have used the Lee Classic Turret for 8 years, loading around 12,000 rounds per year. I almost never sit down to a "dedicated" reloading session. I reload for the 10-15 minutes I am waiting for my wife or kids before we go out to eat or soccer practice. The thing I like about the LCT is that you can stop at anytime (after finishing the bullet you are currently working on) and not worrying about the 4-5 bullets loaded in the progressives, and whether they have powder, etc. There is virtually NO WAY to double charge a case on the LCT (and I use Titegroup). A couple of times that I did time the reloading session, I loaded just over 200 rounds per hour.

However, if I shot as much as the USPSA guys, I would definitely get one of the progressives. However, I only shoot 800-1000 rounds per month, and the Lee meets my needs fine without a lot of the added complexity of the progressives.

BN
02-10-2016, 08:57 AM
And Dillon wins with 100%. LOL

The big volume shooters who shoot in competition mostly use Dillon. I have a 550 and a 1050. They have served me well.

I have no experience with any other of the presses you mentioned. I have some Lee stuff (dies, old shotgun loader, old hand loader) and they have served me well also.

I have bought several presses over the years and have ended up with Dillon.

When I injured my shoulder, I had problems with pulling the press handle. I used my left hand to assist and sometimes just used my left arm, but it was a little awkward.

JV_
02-10-2016, 09:00 AM
The thing I like about the LCT is that you can stop at anytime (after finishing the bullet you are currently working on) and not worrying about the 4-5 bullets loaded in the progressives, and whether they have powder, etc.

I have a Dillon 1050. If I want to stop, I just put an allen wrench in the case feeder slide (position 1) and finish out the remaining cases. The allen wrench prevents new cases from being fed in. It's only an extra 10 seconds to load out the remaining rounds that are mid-stage.

Peally
02-10-2016, 09:27 AM
My first and only press was (and is) a Dillon 650. Unless you reload maybe 100 rounds a month and love tinkering save up for the 550 and call it done. I reload hundreds of rounds a month and every time the press jams up it's a whole lot of wasted time I could be doing something else. Reloading is work and a means to cheaper ammo, I don't enjoy sitting around doing it longer than I have to.

It depends on your level of BS acceptance but for me personally it is. not. worth. it. to run anything less than the Dillon ;)

FWIW I'm not financially loaded either, the cost still outweighs the disaster factor. As a beginning reloader I was happy with a modern machine too, I don't believe the crap about learning on a single stage or anything.

Mitch
02-10-2016, 09:32 AM
I have a Dillon 550 set up for 9mm and 223. If you decide that's the route you want to go shoot me a PM. I've been thinking about moving to a 650 and if I do there will be a 550 for sale with a PF discount.

Rich@CCC
02-10-2016, 09:57 AM
LL,
I voted for the Load Master but that's based on you implying that you want to load all of those rounds on one press. The Load Master will be cheaper by nearly an order of magnitude over the Dillons or the Hornady progressives when factoring in multiple caliber changes.

The work involved with making the LM reliable is negligible and the expense is literal nil. No after market parts, just elbow grease and a bit of guidance. For a very minimal investment in parts and labor you can make several upgrades that drastically improve speed and ease of operation.

I really have a tough time believing the prices on some of the Dillon accessories that a lot of folks consider necessities. $300+ for a tool to fill the primer feed tubes! Really? It takes about 40 seconds to refill the primer tray on the Load Master by hand. That said, one of the best investments I have made in reloading gear was my Dillon Super Swage 600( I had to make mods to that as well).

I'd love to have an LnL Ammo Plant or a Dillon 1050 with all the bells and whistles set for every caliber and just walk by and pull the handles a couple times a day. If I had the extra money you can bet I'd do just that, but I don't. So, The Lee gear gets the vote today.

I tend to do all of my loading at one time. I schedule a day and do nothing but case prep or load cartridges all day. I may only load every other month this way. Sometimes I get enough done in a sitting to last 3 or 4 months, but I'm not a gamer nor do I attend any regular training. The only thing I load every week is my trap(my only scheduled shooting sport) ammo and that only requires an hour every Sunday evening.

YMMV

Luke
02-10-2016, 10:10 AM
Enos has a couple good deals on 550's right meow.

martin_j001
02-10-2016, 10:43 AM
I don't currently have a press, but have had a couple Lee Loadmasters in the past. They have their quirks for sure, but once you're aware of them and have a few spare parts on hand (for just in case), I found them to be more than good enough for my needs. When I used them I was probably loading 5-6k a year, so not a ton, but enough that it made sense to reload and not purchase factory ammo. Thinking about getting another one to start up again, so I'll be continuing to follow this thread too.

Trooper224
02-10-2016, 10:45 AM
I've used a Lee turret press for over twenty five years. I keep tempting myself to move up to a progressive press, but hesitate to spend the money when the Lee has worked well without issue for so long. On the average I load around 500 to 800 rounds a month. Once you move up to progressives Lee's are crap, but the turret press is good to go.

LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 10:47 AM
How much shooting do you do? I have used the Lee Classic Turret for 8 years, loading around 12,000 rounds per year. I almost never sit down to a "dedicated" reloading session. I reload for the 10-15 minutes I am waiting for my wife or kids before we go out to eat or soccer practice. The thing I like about the LCT is that you can stop at anytime (after finishing the bullet you are currently working on) and not worrying about the 4-5 bullets loaded in the progressives, and whether they have powder, etc. There is virtually NO WAY to double charge a case on the LCT (and I use Titegroup). A couple of times that I did time the reloading session, I loaded just over 200 rounds per hour.

However, if I shot as much as the USPSA guys, I would definitely get one of the progressives. However, I only shoot 800-1000 rounds per month, and the Lee meets my needs fine without a lot of the added complexity of the progressives.

I plan on about 1k rounds a month but it could be less or more. Mixed rifle and 9mm.

LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 10:47 AM
Enos has a couple good deals on 550's right meow.

Which ones specifically?

Irelander
02-10-2016, 11:21 AM
Dillon is really the way to go if you can afford it. I can't.

I run a Redding T7 (http://www.brownells.com/reloading/reloading-presses/reloading-press-accessories/t-7-turret-press-prod38307.aspx) turret press and I like it a lot. The turret is nice and smooth. Mine is currently set up for 9mm and I can crank out a lot of ammo in a short amount of time.

Peally
02-10-2016, 11:23 AM
I make under 40K a year and most of that goes to bills and I could afford it :D

Once you factor in the money saved from loading in-house ammo it becomes easier to digest.

LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 11:24 AM
I have a Dillon 550 set up for 9mm and 223. If you decide that's the route you want to go shoot me a PM. I've been thinking about moving to a 650 and if I do there will be a 550 for sale with a PF discount.

Oh, PM inbound soon :D

Mitch
02-10-2016, 11:38 AM
I make under 40K a year and most of that goes to bills and I could afford it :D

Once you factor in the money saved from loading in-house ammo it becomes easier to digest.

To reload enough to make it worth it financially, you have to spend enough on components that the cost of the press is long forgotten by then. Says the guy who wants a 1050 but can't quite make the leap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LSP972
02-10-2016, 11:39 AM
LL, I understand your budget concerns. However, your indicated calibers are three rifle cartridges and a tapered pistol cartridge. Unless you're shooting them in a bolt gun, you will have to full-length resize those rifle rounds... and that can be problematical on a progressive machine.

I have friends who load bottle neck rifle rounds on their Dillons, but they all have, after lots of trial and error, settled on prepping the brass prior to actually assembling loaded cartridges. To wit, they full-length resize/deprime on a single stage press. Let's break that down:

1. You really need to use case lube for this, even if you have a carbide sizing die. So if you do it on the first station of your progressive, the case will have residual case lube on it as it moves through the process. Aside from being messy, this can induce an issue or two via picking up crud/etc. on the case as it moves through the stations. This WILL be transferred to the inside of the other dies, and it doesn't take much imagination to see where this could cause some problems; especially in the neck expansion/powder drop die. By "prepping" the brass on a single stage press, which entails resizing/depriming (and reaming the primer pocket to remove the crimp if necessary, along with trimming the case mouth if necessary), then cleaning the brass- via tumblimg/washing/whatever- you now have clean, ready-to-load cases that will move smoothly and effortlessly through your machine. IOW, you seat the primer at station one. With no die there, the case is free to move smoothly on the upstroke, is primed on the downstroke, and then advanced to the next station...

2. ...which expands the case mouth to receive the bullet and drops the powder. You then advance the shell plate, place a bullet in the now-charged case...

3. ...seat the bullet, advance the shell plate...

4. ...crimp the bullet. Of course, you're also repeating the other processes on each stroke of the handle as you go. And the result is cartridges that are ready to shoot, as opposed to cartridges that need to be cleaned of case lube.

These guys all tell me that the 550 is tailor-made for this procedure, and is actually less hassle than a 650. Dunno, I have no experience on a 650, but mucho experience on the 550. If I was inclined to load rifle cartridges, this is the way I would do it.

And if 9mm was the only pistol caliber I intended to load for, I'd get a Dillon Square Deal for that. This is a great little tool that has one caveat; you set it for one load/powder charge/bullet type, and LEAVE IT ALONE, because it is somewhat of a PITA to adjust. But to sit down and crank out practice ammo in quantity, there is nothing better IMO.

By trying to load one pistol and three different rifle cartridges on one press, you are going through a complex dance of changing things every time you switch calibers. Not that it cannot be done; it certainly can. But it will get old. You will perform that dance, to a lesser degree, when changing from, say, 5.56mm to .308.

I realize that I'm talking about two separate machines here, with the attendant extra cost, but I'm also talking about saving yourself a LOT of time and aggravation. I'll add that IMO, the weak point on the Dillon 550 is the priming system. Every time to change from small to large or vice versa, you will have to carefully re-time the mechanism.

Regarding brands of machine... Lee stuff is cheap, is made cheaply, and while okay to get your feet wet on... well, opinions differ. The Hornady progressive didn't impress me at all; the one I looked at (not sure which one it was) used a coil spring to retain the cases, and its owner told me he was constantly having to fiddle with case positioning during the process.

You simply cannot beat Dillon for value received. They are well-engineered, and if something breaks they will replace it; no questions asked... ever.

I hope this somewhat muddy post didn't confuse you. Keep in mind that there are lots of ways to skin this cat. I long ago determined that the extra effort required to produce good bottle neck cartridges was more effort than I wanted to expend. After many years, reloading has lost its thrill, and now is just another chore to be accomplished to facilitate my shooting habit. So I'm big into eliminating any unneeded effort on my part. I just grit my teeth and cough up the bucks for factory 5.56/.223. I do not own nor shoot any other centerfire rifle cartridges.

.

Hauptmann
02-10-2016, 12:45 PM
I've tried a number of progressive presses over the years, but I've settled on the Dillon 550b for my high volume loading(I use a single stage for precision rifle). Think of a Dillon 650 or Hornady Progressive as a Remington 11-87 semiauto shotgun, and a Dillon 550b as a Remington 870. The 11-87 will operate faster if everything goes well, but it is more complicated, and can be harder to deal with malfunctions due to the complexity. The 870 is pretty fast, but not as fast as the 11-87. However, the 870 has a much more simple manual of arms, and it is much more versatile in that it can quickly adapt to changes.

With the Dillon 550b, I usually churn out about 100rds of 9mm every 15-20min and that includes recharging components and pulling the occasional casing to swage out a tight primer pocket. It is very easy to stop the assembly line, and even back track if need be on the 550b.......not so easy on a full progressive. Caliber changes are also cheaper, and easier on the 550b than on a full progressive.

EMC
02-10-2016, 01:00 PM
The dillon 550b was the sweet spot for me on the price, quality, simplicity, efficiency spectrum.

I do 9mm and 223. I still do 223 brass prep (size, decap, swage) on an old single stage and only do the priming, powder, seating, crimping load steps on the dillon.

For pistol loading everything is done on the dillon.

Must have accessories:
Extra primer pickup tubes
Extra toolhead (with powder funnel die) and toolhead stand for each additional caliber you plan to load.

I built my own custom bench out of spare materials from finishing a basement for optimal standing height.

olstyn
02-10-2016, 01:23 PM
Caliber changes are also cheaper, and easier on the 550b than on a full progressive.

Caliber changes are actually VERY cheap and easy on the Hornady. That, the smooth indexing (1/2 advance on the way up, 1/2 on the way down), and its feature parity with a Dillon 650/price parity with a Dillon 550b, are, in my mind, its major selling points. The LnL quick change bushings are ~ $20 per caliber IIRC, and shell plates are inexpensive as well. Swapping calibers is 1 minute or less if you have separate powder measures pre-set per caliber, 1 minute + adjusting the powder measure otherwise.

LL, the Hornady is about $25-35 cheaper bought from Midsouth (http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00005095100/Lock-N-Load-AP-Auto-Progressive-Press) than at your Amazon link, if that makes a difference in your purchasing decision.

taadski
02-10-2016, 01:30 PM
BUY. THE. DILLON.

olstyn
02-10-2016, 01:31 PM
The Hornady progressive didn't impress me at all; the one I looked at (not sure which one it was) used a coil spring to retain the cases, and its owner told me he was constantly having to fiddle with case positioning during the process.

Interesting. That has not been my experience with mine. The coil spring to which you refer has given me no trouble, and fiddling with case positioning is not something I have to do. The machine has weak points, but the case retaining spring is not one of them IMO. As I've said in other threads, the timing on mine was a touch off from the factory, but it was easy to adjust, and having gotten it set properly, it has given me no trouble since.

SLG
02-10-2016, 01:41 PM
972 and others, have made some great points. I've stayed out of this because I have no experience with the 550 or the Hornady. Since we've strayed a little bit though into procedures, I will re-iterate that a Lee Classic Turret will do everything well, but at a pace much faster than a single stage and much slower than a progressive. Since you really do need a different, more manual press for rifle brass prep, the LCT will allow you to jump in and make good ammo, and then when you are ready for a Dillon, it will still accomplish your prep needs, as well as the oddball caliber that you want to try out. So, I vote for LCT and a Dillon. :-)

ranger
02-10-2016, 01:43 PM
Key question is how often and what volume will you load 223? Unless you need a special 223 load, I would buy 223 on sale and load 9mm on a Dillon Square deal. I have a 550 and I use my Lee Dies and my Lee disc powder drops to save money for multiple pistol calibers. I hate case prep so I buy my rifle ammo.

SLG
02-10-2016, 02:15 PM
Dillon is really the way to go if you can afford it. I can't.

I run a Redding T7 (http://www.brownells.com/reloading/reloading-presses/reloading-press-accessories/t-7-turret-press-prod38307.aspx) turret press and I like it a lot. The turret is nice and smooth. Mine is currently set up for 9mm and I can crank out a lot of ammo in a short amount of time.

How much ammo per hour do you make? Can you detail your reloading procedures? As I said elsewhere, I love the T7, but don't consider it to be fast. If there is a better way to use it, I'd like to know.

LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 02:39 PM
Caliber changes are actually VERY cheap and easy on the Hornady. That, the smooth indexing (1/2 advance on the way up, 1/2 on the way down), and its feature parity with a Dillon 650/price parity with a Dillon 550b, are, in my mind, its major selling points. The LnL quick change bushings are ~ $20 per caliber IIRC, and shell plates are inexpensive as well. Swapping calibers is 1 minute or less if you have separate powder measures pre-set per caliber, 1 minute + adjusting the powder measure otherwise.

LL, the Hornady is about $25-35 cheaper bought from Midsouth (http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00005095100/Lock-N-Load-AP-Auto-Progressive-Press) than at your Amazon link, if that makes a difference in your purchasing decision.

What I'm concerned with on the Hornady and maybe you can help enlighten me on is how much will it cost to get up and running with it?

Chris Rhines
02-10-2016, 02:44 PM
Nothing says that you have to size your rifle brass on a single stage. I load 5.56mm ammo on my Dillon 1050 all the time, and the method can easily be adapted to other progressive presses. I use two toolheads. Toolhead A contains a small-base sizing/depriming die, and Toolhead B has the powder die, bullet feeder, seating, and crimp die.

My process is, I install Toolhead A, lube my brass with Dillon Case Lube, and run all my brass through once to size, deprime, and swage. Then I tumble the batch of brass to remove the lube and trim them to 1.750" on my Giraud. Finally, I install Toolhead B and run the brass through again, to prime, seat a bullet, and crimp (if necessary).

I could set up a Rapid Trim 1200 on Toolhead A, but these days I prefer to trim on my Giraud. It takes a little longer, but I think the result is better.

ER_STL
02-10-2016, 02:52 PM
If you're not ham-fisted and are willing to take your time you can start right off on a 550. Loading isn't rocket science but it does need patience and diligence to ensure you don't squib or double-charge a load. That being said, I started out on an LCT due to cost and I haven't bumped up to a 550. When I've got the time I load 100-200 rounds a week and that turns out to be about 30-60 minutes a week at the loading bench.

The LCT is Lee's best press IMHO. Adding the Safety Priming system makes priming quick and it's safer than the priming tubes used by the bigger presses (crushed primer = one detonation on the LCT; crushed primer on a 550 = daisy chain detonation and some ear ringing :) ). Lee's disk powder system is pretty consistent as long as the press is put together correctly.

Send me a PM if you'd like to talk more about it. I've set up a number of people on the LCT and most have been really happy. It's not going to replace a 550 though... :cool:

EMC
02-10-2016, 02:52 PM
Nothing says that you have to size your rifle brass on a single stage. I load 5.56mm ammo on my Dillon 1050 all the time, and the method can easily be adapted to other progressive presses. I use two toolheads. Toolhead A contains a small-base sizing/depriming die, and Toolhead B has the powder die, bullet feeder, seating, and crimp die.

My process is, I install Toolhead A, lube my brass with Dillon Case Lube, and run all my brass through once to size, deprime, and swage. Then I tumble the batch of brass to remove the lube and trim them to 1.750" on my Giraud. Finally, I install Toolhead B and run the brass through again, to prime, seat a bullet, and crimp (if necessary).

I could set up a Rapid Trim 1200 on Toolhead A, but these days I prefer to trim on my Giraud. It takes a little longer, but I think the result is better.
This is true, I only use the single stage because I already had it and a swager for it. I am constantly tempted to buy another tool head for a 1200 trimmer and one of those aftermarket swagers for the 550. My 5.56 volume doesn't quite justify that cost yet, although I think about it every time I prep brass.

ranger
02-10-2016, 02:58 PM
Slight thread drift but related - those that load 223, do you think you save enough money loading 223 to justify the case prep effort? I can justify loading 9mm, 40, and 45 but I cannot justify loading 223, 6.8, or 6.5 Grendel.

Chris Rhines
02-10-2016, 03:24 PM
Good question, and I go back and forth on the answer. For my cheap blasting ammo, I'm actually shipping my brass out to MIBrass. He does all the prep and trimming, for 3.5 cents each. That brings my total cost for 556 ammo up to $205/1k, which is pretty good.

For match ammo, I do my own prep, and that's definitely worth it, with good 556 match loads going for $0.70-1.00 each. I load them for around half that.

Something else to keep in mind - if you shoot in any kind of practical competition, you're gonna lose a lot of your brass.

Sal Picante
02-10-2016, 03:27 PM
The nice thing about the 550 is that it will grow with you... I use mine to work up 9mm loads and reload 223.
Even though I have a 1050, it is nice to know I've got a reliable back press.

My advice?
Learn to load 9, then learn to load 223.

This is mainly because you will need additional setup to reload 223 on the 550: Two tool heads (sizing/trim) and then (powder/seat). A GS swage tool helps in processing brass (http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-S-Custom-swage-it-primer-pocket-swager-for-Dillon-RL550-B-Large-small-pins-/222018932416)


Finding a "550" on the cheap
Mine is an old 450 that has been converted, by Dillon, to a 550:
https://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/23995/catid/6/Dillon_RL_450_Upgrade_Frame_Change_Kit

You can find 450's out there on the cheap, sometimes. Here's a frame on auction for $50: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-RL-450-frame-/252277765923

MichaelD
02-10-2016, 04:35 PM
Please bear in mind that I have that gunshot elbow on my strong arm. The less turret pulls per round, the better. However, it's not huge priority, rather just something worth considering.

LL, I seem to recall the Hornady LnL AP rotates the opposite direction than the Dillon 550B, and its user places the bullet with their left hand rather than the right as on the Dillon (and I could be mis-remembering this) -- meaning the most efficient action is to pull the lever with the left hand. This annoyed me to no end when I loaded some rounds using a friend's Hornady, but maybe in your case you would find it preferable given the elbow issue.

nwhpfan
02-10-2016, 04:53 PM
Buy once cry once. Dillon.

I've never met anyone who bought a Dillon then bought something else...ever, that says something. Some others are fine but again, Dillon is the best.

The 550 is easy to load and learn on.....and it holds its value just fine. You will go to a 650 in a year or two once the full value of reloading is fully revealed to you. You will even probably kick yourself for not starting with the 650 and swear you will encourage or outright demand of all your friend to not make the same mistake you did :) and buy the 650 first from the beginning. But hey, it's OK we all start somewhere.

Fact is you'll be making the best 9mm ammo you've ever shot for 10cents a round and even better .223 for less than 20 cents a round. Oh, and Blackout, hallelujah...

And also remember this; their actually is no such thing as having too much powder or primers.

Boxy
02-10-2016, 05:00 PM
Ski,

I have a LNL AP with case feeder etc. Constantly had to replace pot metal parts on the case feeder when loading 9mm. I would run 100 rounds maybe and something would get out of alignment or jam or ....


I bought a Dillon 1050. I know this is not in your budget but overall the quality of a Dillion is above the Hornady LNL. I keep the LNL for some 45 ACP which I do not shoot much in volume. I found it more productive to dump the LNL case feeder and just hand feed the brass. Run away from Hornady.

I load a lot of 9mm on my 1050 as I have gotten my wife into shooting pistols and she helps me burn through some ammo. My time is valuable as well so I set aside a weekend morning and load 1500 -2000 rounds easy over a given weekend.

Hope this keeps you from any buyers remorse.

Sal Picante
02-10-2016, 05:09 PM
Just going to throw this out there...

While the Dillon 550 can't be automated (Mark 7 autodrives/ etc...) - you can run a case and bullet feeder on it if you use the seat & crimp die...
(http://benstoegerproshop.com/double-alpha-daa-2-in-1-seat-and-crimp-die/)

The possibilities with the 550 are pretty astounding...

jeep45238
02-10-2016, 05:21 PM
Skip the Lee Loadmaster. Skip any press that combines priming operations with anything else. A tricked out Dillon 650XL and Hornady LNL AP (with case and bullet feeders) are comparable in price. I prefer having a 5 die setup as I like crimping seperate from my seating, I find it's easier to setup and make small adjustments without pulling out my hair trying to trouble shoot, the Dillon 550 is a 4 die setup as is the Lee turret. My press is a Hornady LNL AP, but I hand feed the brass and bullets. Right hand runs the handle, left hand grabs a case and bullet as the ram is traveling up and places them in their prospective positions when it hits home as I verify the powder charge visually. I don't see myself getting a bullet feeder as I shoot cast 9mm bullets, and I'm too cheap to spend $300 on a case feeder (probably going to adapt a lee case feeder with a home made shuttle for about $50 overall).

You won't go wrong buying Dillon. I've never heard of a Dillon user selling to move to a Hornady; it's rare for a Hornady user to move up to a Dillon (think of it like a Ford vs. a Mercury...more refinemant/similar support). Most Lee users upgrade to RCBS, Dillon, or Hornady given enough time. I'm drooling over the RCBS Pro 7 with a case feeder and bullet feeder, but that's years out....

To take your time and learn, you can put a single die in a progressive and set it up, and do a run of all your brass. Take it out, and put in the next and dial it in, rinse and repeat. It doesn't work like that for the powder, but if you get the other dies set up, make a dummy round with all the dies in to verify feeding, then get your charge dialed in. Make a single round at a time to verify it's all working smoothly, then do a single run of 5 to double check it all, then a batch of 10. Most presses will have overall length variations if the shell plate isn't full of brass for every die (hence small batch runs, do full quality control). After you're comfy doing 10 at a time, move on to a box at a time, so on, and so forth.


It's funny I saw this today, as someone on another forum was referencing a house burning down and the cause was the guy reloading in his garage (probably was smoking while doing it), and folks asked if detonating a primer while reloading (it does occasionally happen) could make the rest of the primers in the press go off in a daisy chain. Below is my response:



I had a primer tray explosion happen with a Lee Loadmaster. I was loading .45ACP, but to this day I'm not sure if it was a small pistol primer that I missed, or the original primer didn't come fully out, or if there was debris in the flash hold, if the primer went in sideways, double fed, etc., but no matter what, it happened. With the Loadmaster it's impossible to feel if there's a problem while priming since all other operations are also happening at the same time (cold working 4-5 pieces of brass depending how you have it set up).

The primer in the priming station detonated. It daisy chained up and every primer in the primer tray exploded (I had just filled it, so 90-100 primers). My buddy was watching to learn and caught a face of plastic shrapenal, thankfully just minor scuffs and we pulled the plastic out with tweezers. My hand was throbbing from the shockwave, it was like a small gernade went off inches from my hand. The powder from the measure went all over (cap came off), but no fire. Quick, massive, loud, bright, and done.

I immediately moved to a different reloading press company, and will never again be involved with a press that has priming happen while other operations are going on. I now use a Hornady with a vertical tube, and if one in the tube went off the whole thing would go. But knowing that it's contained in a steel blast tube that's threaded to the press and has an open top where all the pressure would be directed certainly helps. If they went off there should be a hole in the ceiling from the rod in the feed tube, maybe some damage to the blast tube and primer shuttle, but it shouldn't turn into a fragmentation gernade. Having a shuttle that moves a primer at a time over an inch and a half away from the stack, and everything made of metal certainly reduces the likelyhood of it happening further.

For example:
Lee loadmaster primer storage + feeding (everything in black plastic has a primer in it)
http://madcommando.com/eStore/images/190075.jpg
http://loadmastervideos.com/total/CARRIER.JPG

Hornady primer feed + storage
http://www.shootandreload.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Hornady_Primer_Down-annotated.jpg

The primer operation is a completely seprate step, and the primer in question is fully seperated from the rest. In the above post, look at the tube below the primer tube - it looks to be intact and contained the blast. The safety glasses appear to be without scratches and fragmentation, leading me to think that was the case. It's a great reminder to always wear safety glasses when reloading. Personally - I use a full face shield.

SLG
02-10-2016, 05:45 PM
Buy once cry once. Dillon.

I've never met anyone who bought a Dillon then bought something else...ever, that says something. Some others are fine but again, Dillon is the best.

The 550 is easy to load and learn on.....and it holds its value just fine. You will go to a 650 in a year or two once the full value of reloading is fully revealed to you. You will even probably kick yourself for not starting with the 650 and swear you will encourage or outright demand of all your friend to not make the same mistake you did :) and buy the 650 first from the beginning. But hey, it's OK we all start somewhere.

Fact is you'll be making the best 9mm ammo you've ever shot for 10cents a round and even better .223 for less than 20 cents a round. Oh, and Blackout, hallelujah...

And also remember this; their actually is no such thing as having too much powder or primers.

I went from Dillon to Lee, so there. :-)

The Classic Turret is a press all in its own category, when you compare ease of use to caliber changes to speed to cost to quality. For how I need to reload pistol ammo, it works better than anything else I have used. A 550 might work just as well, or close enough so that the extra ammo output makes up for the slower changeover speed. I will try one one of these days.


LL, I know we talk about this all the time, and my mind is far from made up, but the most basic 550, with an automatic priming system added, might just be the best way to go. 2 tool heads for rifle ammo, one per pistol. More expensive than the Loadmaster, but almost as easy to swap calibers, and possibly easier/less fiddly to use, IDK.

olstyn
02-10-2016, 06:14 PM
What I'm concerned with on the Hornady and maybe you can help enlighten me on is how much will it cost to get up and running with it?

I had to do a search in my email, but here's my invoice from Midsouth when I set mine up. The only stuff I bought separately was 2 die sets (9mm and .380) which I already had and a 3-pack of additional primer tubes because it sucks to load 100 rounds and then have to reload the primer tube before you can keep going. You may or may not need everything I bought, and unfortunately Midsouth didn't line-item the pricing on the invoice email, but it should at least give you an idea. Note that I do not have a case feeder or a bullet feeder, and I bought a cheap scale. Buying the feeders and a nice digital scale will drive the cost up, of course, but the below + dies is all you truly NEED to get started, plus a case trimmer of some sort for the rifle calibers and a third shell plate for the .308.

00005044093 LOCK-N-LOAD DIE BUSHIN 1
00005050063 POWDER COP 1
00005050075 STEEL DIAL CALIPER 1
00005095100 LOCK-N-LOAD AP PROGRES 1
00005392608 #8 SHELL PLATE 1
00005392616 #16 SHELL PLATE 1
0000690101 PRIMER POCKET CLEANER 1
0000690190 POWDER FUNNEL 22 TO 45 1
0000690681 SAFETY POWDER SCALE 1
00008P100916T FLIP TOP 100 ROUND AMM 3
00008P100924 FLIP TOP 100 ROUND AMM 3
00036NQDT1745 CHAMFER AND DEBURRING 1
00038502024 TUMBLER KIT 1
000449412 POWER PULL IMPACT 1
Subtotal: $663.66
Tax: $0.00
Shipping: $26.30
Shipping: $5.25
Hazard: $0.00
Total: $695.21

Hambo
02-10-2016, 06:32 PM
Buy the 550 and start with 9mm. When you really understand everything with the press you can try your hand with rifle.

And buy some of this (or make your own if you're handy) so you can see powder in the cases. http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/lighting

LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 07:40 PM
Great post, thank you.


LL, I understand your budget concerns. However, your indicated calibers are three rifle cartridges and a tapered pistol cartridge. Unless you're shooting them in a bolt gun, you will have to full-length resize those rifle rounds... and that can be problematical on a progressive machine.

I have friends who load bottle neck rifle rounds on their Dillons, but they all have, after lots of trial and error, settled on prepping the brass prior to actually assembling loaded cartridges. To wit, they full-length resize/deprime on a single stage press. Let's break that down:

1. You really need to use case lube for this, even if you have a carbide sizing die. So if you do it on the first station of your progressive, the case will have residual case lube on it as it moves through the process. Aside from being messy, this can induce an issue or two via picking up crud/etc. on the case as it moves through the stations. This WILL be transferred to the inside of the other dies, and it doesn't take much imagination to see where this could cause some problems; especially in the neck expansion/powder drop die. By "prepping" the brass on a single stage press, which entails resizing/depriming (and reaming the primer pocket to remove the crimp if necessary, along with trimming the case mouth if necessary), then cleaning the brass- via tumblimg/washing/whatever- you now have clean, ready-to-load cases that will move smoothly and effortlessly through your machine. IOW, you seat the primer at station one. With no die there, the case is free to move smoothly on the upstroke, is primed on the downstroke, and then advanced to the next station...

2. ...which expands the case mouth to receive the bullet and drops the powder. You then advance the shell plate, place a bullet in the now-charged case...

3. ...seat the bullet, advance the shell plate...

4. ...crimp the bullet. Of course, you're also repeating the other processes on each stroke of the handle as you go. And the result is cartridges that are ready to shoot, as opposed to cartridges that need to be cleaned of case lube.

These guys all tell me that the 550 is tailor-made for this procedure, and is actually less hassle than a 650. Dunno, I have no experience on a 650, but mucho experience on the 550. If I was inclined to load rifle cartridges, this is the way I would do it.

And if 9mm was the only pistol caliber I intended to load for, I'd get a Dillon Square Deal for that. This is a great little tool that has one caveat; you set it for one load/powder charge/bullet type, and LEAVE IT ALONE, because it is somewhat of a PITA to adjust. But to sit down and crank out practice ammo in quantity, there is nothing better IMO.

By trying to load one pistol and three different rifle cartridges on one press, you are going through a complex dance of changing things every time you switch calibers. Not that it cannot be done; it certainly can. But it will get old. You will perform that dance, to a lesser degree, when changing from, say, 5.56mm to .308.

I realize that I'm talking about two separate machines here, with the attendant extra cost, but I'm also talking about saving yourself a LOT of time and aggravation. I'll add that IMO, the weak point on the Dillon 550 is the priming system. Every time to change from small to large or vice versa, you will have to carefully re-time the mechanism.

Regarding brands of machine... Lee stuff is cheap, is made cheaply, and while okay to get your feet wet on... well, opinions differ. The Hornady progressive didn't impress me at all; the one I looked at (not sure which one it was) used a coil spring to retain the cases, and its owner told me he was constantly having to fiddle with case positioning during the process.

You simply cannot beat Dillon for value received. They are well-engineered, and if something breaks they will replace it; no questions asked... ever.

I hope this somewhat muddy post didn't confuse you. Keep in mind that there are lots of ways to skin this cat. I long ago determined that the extra effort required to produce good bottle neck cartridges was more effort than I wanted to expend. After many years, reloading has lost its thrill, and now is just another chore to be accomplished to facilitate my shooting habit. So I'm big into eliminating any unneeded effort on my part. I just grit my teeth and cough up the bucks for factory 5.56/.223. I do not own nor shoot any other centerfire rifle cartridges.

.

SLG
02-10-2016, 07:43 PM
What would that cost?

About 200 for the Lee kit and about 330 for the dillon, but just the press and primer system, no kit. Rough numbers.

LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 07:45 PM
What would that cost?

$200 for the Kempf LCT kit (http://kempfgunshop.com/Kempf_Kit_w/_Lee_Classic_Turret_Press_-90064Kit-6575.html) (comes with pretty much everything you need) and there's a wide range on the Dillon. Anywhere from around $400 to $1200-ish if you deck it out at BrianEnos.com (http://www.brianenos.com/store/dillon.550.html).

LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 07:46 PM
Buy once cry once. Dillon.

I've never met anyone who bought a Dillon then bought something else...ever, that says something. Some others are fine but again, Dillon is the best.

The 550 is easy to load and learn on.....and it holds its value just fine. You will go to a 650 in a year or two once the full value of reloading is fully revealed to you. You will even probably kick yourself for not starting with the 650 and swear you will encourage or outright demand of all your friend to not make the same mistake you did :) and buy the 650 first from the beginning. But hey, it's OK we all start somewhere.

Fact is you'll be making the best 9mm ammo you've ever shot for 10cents a round and even better .223 for less than 20 cents a round. Oh, and Blackout, hallelujah...

And also remember this; their actually is no such thing as having too much powder or primers.

Hearing ya loud and clear.

LittleLebowski
02-10-2016, 07:48 PM
LL, I know we talk about this all the time, and my mind is far from made up, but the most basic 550, with an automatic priming system added, might just be the best way to go. 2 tool heads for rifle ammo, one per pistol. More expensive than the Loadmaster, but almost as easy to swap calibers, and possibly easier/less fiddly to use, IDK.

Yeah, I know. I think the LCT would be more suited for me if I had more calibers to load for like a friend of mine...

BN
02-10-2016, 08:10 PM
A 550 might work just as well, or close enough so that the extra ammo output makes up for the slower changeover speed.

A 550 only takes about 5 minutes for a caliber change if you have the tool heads already set up and are using the same size primer. Changing primer size only takes a couple of minutes more if you have a primer slide for each size.

A 1050 only takes 20 minutes for a caliber change with tool heads set up.

On my Dillon powder measures, I color each flat on the adjustment nut a different color. I keep a record of the color for my powder charges. When I need to adjust, I go to the correct color and measure. I am either on or a full turn or 2 away. :)

rsa-otc
02-10-2016, 08:32 PM
For LL and anyone else reading this thread who is contemplating getting into reloading. There is a lot of great info in this thread. Much of what I have to say has already been said one way or another. A bit of background to start. I reload upwards to 15,000 rounds per year on my Dillon 550. All four flavors of common defensive pistol ammo 38, 9mm, 40 and 45. My 550 started it's life out as a 450 back in the mid 80s and has been converted to the 550 configuration minus the tool head. Converting between calibers using the same size primer takes me approximately 10 to 15 minutes not including adjusting the powder charge. Add another 5 minutes to change primer from small to large or visa versa. I can't tell you the numerous of times I have used the Dillon no BS lifetime guarantee. After 30 years things like the powder measure etc. just plain wear out. Each time my experience with Dillon's customer service department has been exactly the same; email that the part broke and their response was that the replacement was inbound. NO questions asked period nada. For this reason alone when asked what progressive press to buy my only response it Dillon.

People have responded that they have had daisy chain explosion in some press's primer feed system. When looking at getting a dedicated press for 38 special one of my turn offs with the Lee press is that they advised against using Federal primers because in their system Federal primers are suceptable to detention and their system is mostly plastic. The Dillon system is encased in a steel tube in such a way that in the unlikely event of a daisy chain detention the blast is directed upwards away from the operator. Still wear safety glasses.

The only rifle ammo I reload is my son's 30.06 hunting ammo. Currently I do that on my RCBS rock chucker which was my very first press.

If I was to advise anyone who had a smaller budget but a moderate volume to reload my advise would be:

If only reloading one caliber buy a Square Deal set it and forget it.

If looking to load multiple calibers buy a 550 they are very versatile and can turn out upwards to 700 rounds per hour without a case or bullet feeder, if you have primer tubes ready. If you truly want to load 223/556 follow LSP972 and SLG's advice.

Anything larger than 223 I would do on a classic turret.

In reality unless you are reloading rifle ammo strictly for precision, I haven't found it cost efficient to reload vs buying bulk.

JV_
02-10-2016, 08:43 PM
The Dillon system is encased in a steel tube in such a way that in the unlikely event of a daisy chain detention the blast is directed upwards away from the operator. Still wear safety glasses.

Exactly. The plastic rod that pushes down on the primers will shoot out - bounce off the ceiling. If you put a weight/bullet on there, which is common to make sure the primers feed smoothly, it becomes more of a hazard. The double sleeve design works well at protecting the user.

5897

Sal Picante
02-10-2016, 11:52 PM
Slight thread drift but related - those that load 223, do you think you save enough money loading 223 to justify the case prep effort? I can justify loading 9mm, 40, and 45 but I cannot justify loading 223, 6.8, or 6.5 Grendel.

I've got so much 223 brass... Loading it goes pretty quick... Cheaper too.

I'll only load it when I'm really in the mood to knock out a bunch...

nwhpfan
02-11-2016, 12:55 AM
Slight thread drift but related - those that load 223, do you think you save enough money loading 223 to justify the case prep effort? I can justify loading 9mm, 40, and 45 but I cannot justify loading 223, 6.8, or 6.5 Grendel.

My 650 with swage it and 1500 trimmer I process about 1k an hour. Its a little slower to actually load but to be safe, it takes a little more than an hour to completely make 500 rounds. I make 55g FMJ for 19 cents each.

I don't like case prep either... so an option for some might be buying processed brass that's already cleaned, sized, decrimped, and trimmed for about 9 cents each. Or, you can actually send your own brass out to such a place and they'll do all that for about 4 cents a piece. So awesome ammo for 25 cents or 30 cents each that may take an hour or two per K depending on what type of machine you have.

Slavex
02-11-2016, 02:39 AM
One of the reasons I love my Pro2000 is the primer strips, while they are a bit of a hassle to load themselves, until you get the technique down, they don't explode like tubes can. I use my Pro to prime all my rifle brass instead of hand priming, much quicker. Perhaps it's worth looking at one of these LL? They are incredibly quick to change calibers on and changing the primer seating plug is the easiest of any press short of a single stage. You can get either auto indexing or manual indexing. As the powder measure stays on the press you don't have the added expense of buying more of those, just toolheads and dies. The powder measure also has the micrometer adjust thimble on it, something I always upgrade my Dillons to, which makes changing charges really easy, just write down what they are and away you go (confirming first of course when you do change)

Hambo
02-11-2016, 08:38 AM
My powder measures are set for a load and left that way, but if you need to change them the adjustment bolt is trial and error. Solutions include:

Pricey but very nice-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MRDial-ADJUSTMENT-DIAL-KNOB-DILLON-POWDER-MEASURE-/330556546223?rmvSB=true

Or cheap but workable. I used the Ebay link just to show you. Buy them at Home Depot, Ace Hardware, or from Amazon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-ROSETTE-KNOB-TO-ADJUST-DILLON-SQUARE-DEAL-550-650-1050-POWDER-MEASURE-/121227068039?hash=item1c39b24287:m:mUn2QGAyuM-RU09VV2T26wQ

jwperry
02-11-2016, 09:12 AM
I have no experience reloading, but have gone through the same questions you have and just bought my first loader; a Dillion 550.

After months of reading and researching, for me, the Dillion made the most sense in regards to overall value. Plus, I work with 3 guys who all have 550 and are willing to give me tips/tricks. I bought a used one off another forum, completely setup and ready to run 45ACP, for $440 to my door. I figure with Dillion's no-nonsense lifetime warranty if anything was worn out it would get replaced for free. I'll just need to buy the same parts for 9mm to get it to do what I really want it to do (plus components..). Good deals are out there, just need to watch and wait.

And your poll was confusing. It wasn't until after I voted, I see that "Mods here are shit" is not "Mods here are theshit" like I thought it said, so disregard my poll vote..

ffhounddog
02-11-2016, 09:24 AM
I still have a lock and load in the box. I want to set it up but with my wife on bed rest she waNts to talk to me too much that I need sleep from listening to her.

David S.
02-11-2016, 09:37 AM
Set it up in her room.

"yeah baby, I'm listening...." ;)

Slavex
02-11-2016, 03:29 PM
In my opinion the only upgrade worth it's salt is the Uniquetech micrometer adjust for the Dillon powder measure. It gives you the ability to have fine adjustment and repeatability on charge weights.

Sal Picante
02-11-2016, 03:38 PM
In my opinion the only upgrade worth it's salt is the Uniquetech micrometer adjust for the Dillon powder measure. It gives you the ability to have fine adjustment and repeatability on charge weights.

I use one to work up a spread in loads. It is Good stuff for load development...

On the 1050, I don't bother...

md8232
02-11-2016, 06:00 PM
Buy the 550 and start with 9mm. When you really understand everything with the press you can try your hand with rifle.

And buy some of this (or make your own if you're handy) so you can see powder in the cases. http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/lighting

Love this light on my 550. Also the dial thingy.

LSP972
02-11-2016, 06:21 PM
In my opinion the only upgrade worth it's salt is the Uniquetech micrometer adjust for the Dillon powder measure. It gives you the ability to have fine adjustment and repeatability on charge weights.

I have one of those. It "leaks" powder, and isn't any more precise than the issue arrangement.

When I called to complain about the "leakage", I was told I probably didn't install it correctly. No offer to send it back; when I asked about that, I was told "We'll look at it, but you pay shipping both ways."

All I needed to hear; they can keep their shit.

.

Slavex
02-11-2016, 06:51 PM
leaks powder how? The only thing you replace is the screw. The slide on a Dillon will always accept some powder, no matter how much you turn the knob to decrease it, it's the shape of it. Any leakage would be a Dillon issue. Unless you purchased the completed slide with micrometer on it, in which case it would be an issue with the slide. I've always found Lee to be incredibly good at taking back returns if need be, and walking you through setting something up properly as well. As for not being more precise, I don't understand how you can say the hex head bolt is just as precise as the micrometer thimble, much finer threads on the micrometer, precise markings to gauge off of, repeatability with different powders, just write down the setting and return to that. The hex head bolt is coarse threaded with no indexing marks of any kind and even if you paint the flats you've got a very coarse range of adjustment.

mmc45414
02-11-2016, 07:46 PM
Hey, I am going to go back and read all of this (just got back in town, and I love this shit....) but one thing to consider is buying a 550 is like investing in a liquid commodity. If you decide to move to something indexed later it will sell in like a day on any forum or eBay for most of what you paid for it.

As I have said, I like the LM concept, but when I sold it I took a hit.

I didn't vote cause I only have experience with the 550 and LM.

LSP972
02-11-2016, 10:13 PM
leaks powder how? The only thing you replace is the screw. The slide on a Dillon will always accept some powder, no matter how much you turn the knob to decrease it, it's the shape of it. Any leakage would be a Dillon issue. Unless you purchased the completed slide with micrometer on it, in which case it would be an issue with the slide. I've always found Lee to be incredibly good at taking back returns if need be, and walking you through setting something up properly as well. As for not being more precise, I don't understand how you can say the hex head bolt is just as precise as the micrometer thimble, much finer threads on the micrometer, precise markings to gauge off of, repeatability with different powders, just write down the setting and return to that. The hex head bolt is coarse threaded with no indexing marks of any kind and even if you paint the flats you've got a very coarse range of adjustment.

Not sure where it was coming from. What I do know is that with the micrometer installed, powder, a few grains per ram stroke, was spilling onto the tool head and shell plate. When I replaced the slide with a standard Dillon; no spillage.

I can say the bolt is just as precise because the micrometer did not have any repeatability. IOW, I had to go back and forth a tweak every time I tried to return to a formerly "registered" position… just as you must do with the bolt.

I have no idea who I spoke with. This was five or so years ago. I installed the thing on an extra powder slide, per the instructions supplied with the gadget. I told the guy that, he said I must have done something wrong, and offered no other comment until I asked about returning it. He sounded pretty damn uninterested to me.

I ended up giving the thing to a pal with a old 450 that had been upgraded to 550 spec, including the "new" powder measure. It leaked for him, too. He has since quit the game due to health reasons, but he did tell me he chucked it after he couldn't get it to work.

.

Slavex
02-12-2016, 06:01 AM
very strange dude, all my measures with the micrometer have great repeatability, the only time I ever need to really fine tune is when I change lots of powder. I'm tracking the 120lbs of Tightgroup I bought to see if the settings change at all during it's use, so far, no. I even changed measures and was within one graduation from the previous one. I did have powder leakage previously, but that was a cracked casing on the measure itself. That measure came from my old ammo sponsor and had seen at least a million rounds through it, no idea if had had parts replaced before he gave the setup to me. As for whomever you talked to, that sucks, I can offer no explanation, but totally understand why you'd not go back to them. I wouldn't be surprised if there was crack in the body of yours too. Too bad it's gone.
Funny thing about reloading, I know people that swear by one thing, others hate it, I love something, others hate it, I hate something and it ruins my Lapua brass, others love (Lee collet die for 308 POS ruined 3 of my brass, thankfully I have a barney box of new brass to pull from to replace them, but still pisses me off. The Lee die ended up with explosives taped to and was detonated with one of those barney cases so it would have the same number of shots as the ones it was replacing).

Hambo
02-12-2016, 07:56 AM
In my opinion the only upgrade worth it's salt is the Uniquetech micrometer adjust for the Dillon powder measure. It gives you the ability to have fine adjustment and repeatability on charge weights.

I didn't realize Uniquetek even existed. Thanks for helping me spend more money, jackass. ;) I don't need the micrometer because my measures get set for one powder and only need rare adjustments. However, they do have some other promising doo-dads.

JV_
02-12-2016, 08:01 AM
I know people that swear by one thing, others hate it, I love something, others hate it, I hate something and it ruins my Lapua brass, others love Yup, there might be more strong opinions about reloading than with the guns themselves.

LittleLebowski
02-12-2016, 08:14 AM
Yup, there might be more strong opinions about reloading than with the guns themselves.

Yup, very evident as I research things.

JV_
02-12-2016, 08:16 AM
FWIW: As time goes on, I take a different approach to new guys. Get something commonly used, a 550/RC Supreme/T7/whatever. Use it; learn to reload. You will develop your own strong opinions. If it doesn't work out, you'll be able to resell it and try something different and only lose a minimal amount of money. The key is to get something and get in the game. You're not buying an engagement ring for your future wife.

Rich@CCC
02-12-2016, 12:17 PM
..
Funny thing about reloading, I know people that swear by one thing, others hate it, I love something, others hate it, I hate something and it ruins my Lapua brass, others love (Lee collet die for 308 POS ruined 3 of my brass, thankfully I have a barney box of new brass to pull from to replace them, but still pisses me off. The Lee die ended up with explosives taped to and was detonated with one of those barney cases so it would have the same number of shots as the ones it was replacing).

I haven't used enough of any other brand to have any kind of "feeling" about them. I'm a Lee guy because that's what I bought first and it has worked well for me. From presses and dies to powder funnels, the one exception is my scale. The Lee Safety Scale is very accurate but it's not the easiest to read. My Ohaus 10-10 is the Motts. I do have some RCBS dies and for the most part I like them except for their .223 full length resizer. I had more stuck cases with that die than any other I've used. I prefer the RCBS bullet seater to Lee's but they can have their resizer back.

BTW, My Lee Collet Die in .308 has worked extremely well for me with Winchester and Norma brass.:)

SLG
02-12-2016, 12:27 PM
I like almost everything out there. I have preferences in some areas, but i own stuff from almost evryone, and could happily use any of it.



Does anyone use a Lee universal expanding die? If so, what is the point? Doesnt the powder through expanding die do the job? What am i missing?

Rich@CCC
02-12-2016, 12:40 PM
I think the Lee Universal Expander is aimed towards cowboy rifle loads that are using lead cast bullets. The Lee rifle sizers and rifle powder charge dies do not bell the case mouth at all and you would shave the cast bullets in seating them without flaring the case mouth.

Rich@CCC
02-12-2016, 12:46 PM
I've been toying with the idea of casting spitzers for .223 and using Hi-Tek powder coat. There have been some decent results reported on this. I would use the expander in loading those.

SLG
02-12-2016, 12:50 PM
I think the Lee Universal Expander is aimed towards cowboy rifle loads that are using lead cast bullets. The Lee rifle sizers and rifle powder charge dies do not bell the case mouth at all and you would shave the cast bullets in seating them without flaring the case mouth.

That makes sense, thanks. I guess i forgot that the rifle dies dont have the powder through die.

SLG
02-12-2016, 04:23 PM
So...does that mean i should get a universal expanding die for 45-70? If so, i wont be able to crimp in a seperate stage on my LCT...


never mind, the 4570 comes with a powder through expander.

Rich@CCC
02-12-2016, 06:31 PM
45-70 is a pistol cartridge.

SLG
02-12-2016, 08:29 PM
45-70 is a pistol cartridge.

Only if you're a Judge kind of guy. Which I am not. My 45-70's are shot at long range:-)

taadski
02-12-2016, 09:52 PM
This thread over on Enos just got bumped up. Some worthwhile reading on the topic (ish):


http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=221390

Jared
02-13-2016, 12:16 AM
LL, I upgraded from a Redding T7 turret press to a Dillon 550. Best decision I ever made for my volume pistol ammo. I still use the Redding for small batches of rifle ammo (like when I'm gonna make 50-100 222's and run them through the old 700 BDL Varmint shooting groups) but the turret press was becoming a bear as far as keeping up with my growing 9mm habit.

BWT
02-13-2016, 12:28 AM
I don't have a lot to say other than this tid-bit.

I would dip a toe into re-loading; go with something lower on price that seems to get high recommendations. It's another hobby, IMHO. I'd try that and then when you're ready you can always upgrade.

I would also recommend starting pistol.

My Dad went full-bore into a Dillon 650XL for .45 ACP with all the dies and associated equipment. The reality is he doesn't shoot that much. He's had it a year and while it's cool; he's reloaded maybe 300-500 rounds?

That's my only reluctance/advice.

God Bless,

Brandon

mmc45414
02-13-2016, 11:44 AM
OK, I know I said I would go back and read all of this but I didn’t, though this is the www and nothing prevents me from blathering on with opinions anyway. I never voted the pole, because this is like trying to tell somebody what kind of car they should buy, there are factors to all of the choices. More of my yammering, in order:

Lee CT
The Good - You can easily (I think) make it NOT index, so you could start out learning like it is a single stage, but easily change it to index. This might also be handy for 300BO, you may never want to load that totally progressively. And the tool heads are cheap and easy to swap. It is relatively inexpensive and there is lots of online community support. It has four positions so you can seat and crimp in separate steps. Edited to add, you can make it right hand or left hand, if your elbow bothers you.
The Bad – It indexes, but it is not progressive, and you are gonna get tired of pulling that handle four times to load one shell. It doesn’t have that much leverage and sizing 300BO will probably take some grunt, case forming might not be feasible, though it has been a long time since I used one so I do not want to conclusively make that statement. You are going to end up wanting something else, perhaps not as soon as if you start with a single stage, but the LCT will not be the end game (IMO, YMMV).

Hornady AP
The Good – I have never cycled one, but this thing has a lot of appeal, IMO. For the price of the 550 it has some 650 features. Indexing is obvious, but it also has five stations, and this means one option is to flare separately from powder dispensing, and this facilitates the use of what I consider to be a better powder measure (I do not want to start a Dillon Jihad, because I have three of them and want more, but I can’t say I love their PM).
The Bad – I think indexing and a case feeder go together like peas and carrots, and it seems like their case feed costs a hell of a lot to add as an accessory later. If I knew more maybe I would know more potential drawbacks, perhaps just for my edification I should troll through the Hornady booth at the upcoming NRA meetings.

Lee LM
The Good – Flat out flies for $250, I was going to collect the whole set. Lots of online community support.
The Bad – You are probably going to need lots of online community support. Seriously, I really wanted the thing to work and maybe the problem was mine and not the tool, but there is a lot going on there and when it all works it is great but when not it is not easy to unravel. But this might not be a negative, you may enjoy the challenge and end up being one of the loyal, there would be a lot of satisfaction in kicking out ammo that fast on a tool that inexpensive. But once you get it working for 9mm I do not think you will want to disturb it to load 300BO, though it is cheap enough you could have a second one. One little thing I didn’t embrace is the fact that it seats the primer when the ram tops out. It always worked, it is just something that seemed “wrong” to me, there is no feel when you are sizing the base of the case, just seemed like the wrong time to be seating a primer.

Dillon 550
The Good - This is like buying an Accord or a Camry, they are relatively a lot of money for what they are but it is going to work as designed and if you ever want something else there are a sea of people wanting to buy your used one. It is simple to use, can be used one case at a time when you are starting out. It would be strong enough to form 300BO cases. It is a progressive press that would be as easy to learn on as a single stage.
The Bad – It is not a 650: it is only going to ever have four stations and it is never going to index, though I did add a case feeder to mine (manually indexing it while you reach to set the bullet is not that big a deal, IMO). If you stick to the brand of lot of the ancillary things are also expensive. IMO there is no reason not to use Lee dies (again, not wanting to start a keyboard war).

Left Field Idea Not In The Poll – Go Ahead And Unbox The RCBS Kit….
The Good – You have it, maybe it is not what you would do if you had it to do over again, but you cannot un-ring that bell. You are going to need a scale no matter what you do, you will use that deburr tool no matter what you do, and I contend at some point you will enjoy having a separate single stage press, especially if you end up forming 300BO cases.
The Bad – It was relatively expensive and there is stuff in the kit you will not use. Though the data in the book is available online, there probably is a bunch of content that might be helpful, and books are more convenient than laptops and tablets while you are defecating.
The Reality – Nobody wants to fall on their sword, but if we deconstruct the situation the bucks are probably not so big. Right now you have offered the kit for $200, you need a scale and the scale is worth $65. Maybe there are cheaper scales but you would probably spend the difference shipping the kit if you are able to sell it. And the deburr tool is probably $10. The tray will be handy. So your net from selling the kit would be ~$125, not insignificant but in the scheme of thing not that much. So let’s say you unbox the kit and use it for a while and later decide MMc is FoS and sell the press used for $50, your cost of using it for a while would be $75 (but there are 79 posts in this thread and I don’t remember very many people mentioning that they sold a single stage press if they started with one). If you end up ultimately taking less for the kit the delta shrinks even more. If you paid $290 you have already accepted a $90 hit, opening the box and using it a bit is not going to cost that much more.
The Plan? – You still need dies no matter what, go ahead and get some Lee 9mm dies (get the four die set). The new Lee powder measure looks interesting, maybe get one of those, maybe get that LnL die conversion kit Slavex tipped us to, and you are not so far off from what the LCT would do. From a financial standpoint remember that if you save up and get one of the progressive presses you are going to be sitting there hot to load with no components. I might end up spending thousands, but am more comfortable doing a couple hundred at a time, get some dies, get some components and start loading and make you ultimate decision after you have kicked out some rounds. Just a suggestion to further muddy up the waters… :)

mmc45414
02-18-2016, 08:14 PM
I hate being the last post, it makes me feel like a Thread Killer...

LittleLebowski
02-18-2016, 08:48 PM
Due to a very generous person (I am passing on the karma), I will be getting a Dillon 550.

Guys, the gun community is awesome. Remember that the next time you want to complain about other shooters.

taadski
02-18-2016, 09:08 PM
Due to a very generous person (I am passing on the karma), I will be getting a Dillon 550.

Guys, the gun community is awesome. Remember that the next time you want to complain about other shooters.




Very cool.

Mitch
02-18-2016, 09:56 PM
Due to a very generous person (I am passing on the karma), I will be getting a Dillon 550.

Guys, the gun community is awesome. Remember that the next time you want to complain about other shooters.

Dude that is awesome, you're going to love it.

Urban_Redneck
02-19-2016, 08:39 AM
Congratulations! I never noticed P-F had a reloading forum.

I found the Ultimate Reloader site and videos very helpful when I was making the press buying decision. What you are likely to find is you don't save any money reloading, you just shoot more for the same money :D

SLG
02-20-2016, 12:07 PM
I have come to learn that I am not a progressive press kind of guy. I like seeing each operation on each case, each time.

However, am still drawn to the idea of two (2) basic 550's. One for large primer, one for small. I would add the auto priming feature ($80), the auto case eject ($30), and extra tool heads as needed. Powder would be handled by the Lee Auto Drum, which I have been very happy with since switching powders. Total for each press would be about $380, and I think you could load almost anything you wanted at a pretty reasonable pace. Not USPSA pace, but still pretty respectable.

jeep45238
02-20-2016, 05:31 PM
Well....my little update is I'm moving into the Dillon 650 and away from the Hornady LNL AP. I just can't justify the case feeder on the Hornady, and they wouldn't sell me the lower portion of the case feeder at all. The dillon 650 also has a lot more support than the Hornady if I'm going to really crank up the production numbers in the future.

LittleLebowski
02-22-2016, 09:40 AM
I have come to learn that I am not a progressive press kind of guy. I like seeing each operation on each case, each time.

However, am still drawn to the idea of two (2) basic 550's. One for large primer, one for small. I would add the auto priming feature ($80), the auto case eject ($30), and extra tool heads as needed. Powder would be handled by the Lee Auto Drum, which I have been very happy with since switching powders. Total for each press would be about $380, and I think you could load almost anything you wanted at a pretty reasonable pace. Not USPSA pace, but still pretty respectable.

I keep on hearing recommendations for Lee powder gear along with a 550.

EMC
02-22-2016, 09:47 AM
I keep on hearing recommendations for Lee powder gear along with a 550.
This has me wondering how the dillon powder measures are deficient in comparison. They seem to work very consistently for me.

JV_
02-22-2016, 09:49 AM
IME: Dillon measures don't do well with long kernel extruded rifle powders.

Luke
02-22-2016, 10:06 AM
My buddy had serious powder creep. Installed one of the powder bars with the micrometer (can't remember name :( ) and it has been rock solid.

EMC
02-22-2016, 10:21 AM
IME: Dillon measures don't do well with long kernel extruded rifle powders.
Ok that makes sense, I'm a ball/flake powder user exclusively.

Mitch
02-22-2016, 10:47 AM
My dillon works great with ball powders and small stick powders like benchmark. It gets pissy sometimes with N140, I wouldn't even try something like IMR4064.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mmc45414
02-22-2016, 12:25 PM
However, am still drawn to the idea of two (2) basic 550's. One for large primer, one for small. I would add the auto priming feature ($80), the auto case eject ($30), and extra tool heads as needed. Total for each press would be about $380
You might double check, I tried to make the math work on the BL and I am pretty sure you could get the regular 550 and shed the stuff you do not want, the used stuff seems to sell fast.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

SLG
02-22-2016, 01:30 PM
My dillon works just fine, but I prefer the case activation of the lee. Also much cheaper so I can keep a measure on every tool head for less.

mmc45414
02-22-2016, 01:40 PM
My intent was that if you buy the BL and add the primer feed and eject you could maybe just buy a 550 and sell off the measure. It amazes me how that stuff sells.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

SLG
02-22-2016, 03:34 PM
My intent was that if you buy the BL and add the primer feed and eject you could maybe just buy a 550 and sell off the measure. It amazes me how that stuff sells.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Sorry, I was responding to the Lee powder aspect, not your post above, which I didn't see on my phone at the time.

You're probably right, but I'm not interested in trying to sell the other stuff. Times 2. Plus, I'm not actually going to do that right now, just thinking out loud.

mmc45414
02-22-2016, 05:13 PM
Sorry, I was responding to the Lee powder aspect, not your post above, which I didn't see on my phone at the time.

You're probably right, but I'm not interested in trying to sell the other stuff. Times 2. Plus, I'm not actually going to do that right now, just thinking out loud.
Yeah, I was just sharing from my own experience of getting all fired up over the notion of getting the BL and then doing the math and thinking Shit, Wait...

I do like the looks of that new Lee measure, I am mostly using their dies anyway. And I like the premise of a cylinder as the volume.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

LittleLebowski
04-07-2016, 12:04 PM
Brass trimming solution for .300BLK on my 550, GO! If not "on" the 550, that's fine as well.

JM Campbell
04-07-2016, 12:15 PM
Brass trimming solution for .300BLK on my 550, GO! If not "on" the 550, that's fine as well.
Not on 550.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BF0J2MG/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?qid=1460049143&sr=8-8&pi=SL75_QL70&keywords=wft+trimmer

I've used this from the start. If you'll be doing more then 1 caliber look into the wft V2 with changeable inserts for more calibers.

With a short case it is hard to use the common trimmers, hard to hold on to.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

chances R
04-07-2016, 03:40 PM
Speaking from loading thousands of .45 and 9mm.....went with the Hornady LNL. Had a Dillon 1050 which was way too complicated for me to change out between the two calibers. The LNL compares more to the 650 than the 550. Each have their quirks, but to me, the LNL is a good machine with excellent CS if needed. Change out is 20 minutes or less. I have no hesitation in recommending the LNL and would buy again.

Pistol Pete 10
04-07-2016, 08:15 PM
The only Lee products I've ever used that were not sub standard is the scoops and the lead pot. Leat pots leak a little but are still good.

martin_j001
05-22-2016, 06:56 AM
Alright all, looking to pull the trigger on a press. I really only intend to reload 9mm at the moment, but reloading 223 (or another caliber) in the future is not out of the question. Leaning towards the 550 at the moment. Having just had a baby, my shooting may be limited to a single outdoor match (~200 rounds) and a trip or two to the range (~200 rounds or more, depending on time), so my needs in terms of volume to reload are not exceptionally high (although I very much intend to increase this as time allows). However, time spent reloading is an important factor. If I can crank out 1000 rounds reliably in a little over an hour and be good for the next month, I consider that a good thing (that would have taken 3-4 hours probably on the Lee Loadmaster I've used in the past, add time if the primer system went on the fritz). So am I making the right choice in thinking the 550 is for me?

Rich@CCC
05-22-2016, 07:20 AM
OK, I have some questions about the Dillon progressive presses. I've never really researched them at all as I have had good results from My Lee Load Master.

Do all of the Dillon presses use a tube to feed the primers? If so how long does it take to load a tube? I saw a machine in the Dillon catalog that is for loading the primer tubes and it cost more than my Load Master.

Does the shell plate rotate smoothly without jerking at the end of it's motion when cycling the press? The one issue with the Load Master I have had in the past is when loading .32 or .25 the shell plate jerks enough when it hits the end of travel to throw powder out of the case. It's not as bad as the Pro1000 was with it's ball and spring detent, but an issue none the less.

Everyone complains about the primer systems on the Lee presses. I admit that they are far more cheaply made than most any other feed system I have seen but I have not had any problems with mine that a little clean up and attention to detail didn't fix. I have also heard complaints about the primer feed on most every other press out there. How does the primer system on the Dillon 650(auto indexing five station progressive, correct?) stack up. Quirks? Known problems?

One day I do plan on buying "better" loading gear. I just want to be sure I'm not buy an expensive pain in the ass.

JV_
05-22-2016, 07:58 AM
Do all of the Dillon presses use a tube to feed the primers?I don't know if all them them do, but the 550, 650 and 1050 use them.


If so how long does it take to load a tube?

It depends. Some primes come in their packaging/tray all faced up or down, but not mixed. This makes it so you can unload them on to the bench, quickly, and start filling tubes. It takes about 30 seconds to fill a tube. I generally start loading by filling all of the tubes I'll need for that session, I have a dozen or so.

ranger
05-22-2016, 08:02 AM
Alright all, looking to pull the trigger on a press. I really only intend to reload 9mm at the moment, but reloading 223 (or another caliber) in the future is not out of the question. Leaning towards the 550 at the moment. Having just had a baby, my shooting may be limited to a single outdoor match (~200 rounds) and a trip or two to the range (~200 rounds or more, depending on time), so my needs in terms of volume to reload are not exceptionally high (although I very much intend to increase this as time allows). However, time spent reloading is an important factor. If I can crank out 1000 rounds reliably in a little over an hour and be good for the next month, I consider that a good thing (that would have taken 3-4 hours probably on the Lee Loadmaster I've used in the past, add time if the primer system went on the fritz). So am I making the right choice in thinking the 550 is for me?

I suggest a Dillon Square Deal in 9mm. Even better if you can find a used Square Deal on the Brian Enos forum. How much 223 do you plan on loading? Are you going to invest in the additional funds for 223 case prep? I sold a Square Deal a long time ago and moved to a 550 so I could load 223 and I have never loaded rifle in volume due to case prep - easier to buy 223 in bulk already loaded. I have single stage to load rifle in smaller quantities. That said, the 550 is a great press.

Hauptmann
05-22-2016, 08:06 AM
Does the shell plate rotate smoothly without jerking at the end of it's motion when cycling the press? The one issue with the Load Master I have had in the past is when loading .32 or .25 the shell plate jerks enough when it hits the end of travel to throw powder out of the case. It's not as bad as the Pro1000 was with it's ball and spring detent, but an issue none the less.


I use a 550, and there is no noticeable "jerk" so to speak. There is a detent for the ball bearing that snaps into place with each cycle, but that is rather minimal. On the 550 and 650, you can adjust the the amount of resistance on the shell plate cycle so that you can maximize its smoothness. As far as the primers tubes go, they are on all of the Dillon models and is a very reliable and smooth system. I dump a box of primers on the primer flip plate, and it takes me about 30 sec to pick up 100 primers into a primer pickup tube, and another 5 sec to feed that into the machine.

martin_j001
05-22-2016, 08:20 AM
I suggest a Dillon Square Deal in 9mm. Even better if you can find a used Square Deal on the Brian Enos forum. How much 223 do you plan on loading? Are you going to invest in the additional funds for 223 case prep? I sold a Square Deal a long time ago and moved to a 550 so I could load 223 and I have never loaded rifle in volume due to case prep - easier to buy 223 in bulk already loaded. I have single stage to load rifle in smaller quantities. That said, the 550 is a great press.

I don't currently have plans to load 223, just thinking in the future I might. At least in comparing new prices and adding the same accessories, the Square Deal would only save me about $100 over the 550. From what I'm reading, that additional $100 to get to the 550 is worth it in terms of build quality, etc. Is that assessment correct on my part?

martin_j001
05-22-2016, 08:25 AM
Does the shell plate rotate smoothly without jerking at the end of it's motion when cycling the press? The one issue with the Load Master I have had in the past is when loading .32 or .25 the shell plate jerks enough when it hits the end of travel to throw powder out of the case. It's not as bad as the Pro1000 was with it's ball and spring detent, but an issue none the less.

Everyone complains about the primer systems on the Lee presses. I admit that they are far more cheaply made than most any other feed system I have seen but I have not had any problems with mine that a little clean up and attention to detail didn't fix. I have also heard complaints about the primer feed on most every other press out there. How does the primer system on the Dillon 650(auto indexing five station progressive, correct?) stack up. Quirks? Known problems?

One day I do plan on buying "better" loading gear. I just want to be sure I'm not buy an expensive pain in the ass.

I remember experiencing this jerking with mine too, I had to almost bang the handle at the top and bottom of each stroke to get things to pop into place at times... While some of this may have been my own fault, I tried to take pretty good care of my setup. As for the priming setup, I can't remember the exact issue I had, but it caused a plastic bar to bend in the system, and rendered it useless so I'd have to change out the whole system. With the second Loadmaster I had (at a later time), I was aware of this and went ahead and bought a spare to start. (*I probably loaded 10,000 rounds on my first refurbished Loadmaster over it's life with me--one year heavy usage, followed by another year a while later--and these were the only "issues" I sporadically had with it. I think I changed out a primer system 2 times total, maybe 3).

SLG
05-22-2016, 08:55 AM
I don't currently have plans to load 223, just thinking in the future I might. At least in comparing new prices and adding the same accessories, the Square Deal would only save me about $100 over the 550. From what I'm reading, that additional $100 to get to the 550 is worth it in terms of build quality, etc. Is that assessment correct on my part?

All the Dillon presses are of the same high quality. The 550 will not produce 1000 rds an hour. Neither will the Square deal, but being a true progressive, it will probably do more than the 550 per hour. I have a square deal that I absolutely never use. I wish I had a 550 instead of it and my 650, but if speed is what you want, get a 1050. The 650 is not bad, but it still won't do 1000 an hour.

LittleLebowski
05-22-2016, 09:13 AM
I don't currently have plans to load 223, just thinking in the future I might. At least in comparing new prices and adding the same accessories, the Square Deal would only save me about $100 over the 550. From what I'm reading, that additional $100 to get to the 550 is worth it in terms of build quality, etc. Is that assessment correct on my part?

I'd get the 550.

martin_j001
05-22-2016, 11:02 AM
...and to complicate things further, it looks as if I can get a 650 setup similarly for just about $100-150 more, if that (I can skip a few non-essentials) that I was looking at earlier. I definitely do like the idea of a true progressive better...

Hauptmann
05-22-2016, 11:25 AM
...and to complicate things further, it looks as if I can get a 650 setup similarly for just about $100-150 more, if that (I can skip a few non-essentials) that I was looking at earlier. I definitely do like the idea of a true progressive better...

My free time dissolved when I had kids, but I still had about an hour of "me" time either early in the morning or late at night. Fortunately I can shoot on the job, so that takes care of my range time. I do not lack the time necessary to reload for all the ammo I can afford to shoot.

-Realistically, you can load UP TO 400rds per hour on a 550 with handgun ammo(Rifle takes longer).

-Realistically, you can load UP TO 600rds per hour on a 650 provided that you invest in a case and bullet feeder.........AND that all of your brass is uniform with no primer crimps or anything else that might stop production.

There is really very little difference in speed between the standard 550 and 650, but the 650 allows for you to purchase more automated accessories that can speed things up. I actually sold my 650 because I didn't feel that its slight increase in speed was worth the cost and trouble. i also use mixed brass that I collect from a police range, so when I did encounter a crimped primer pocket on 9mm brass it was much more difficult to take care of that on the 650. With the 550, it is a breeze to handle problems that occur during production.

I still prefer the analogy that the 550 is like a Remington 870, and a 650 is like a Remington 11-87. Sure the 11-87 is faster, but the manual of arms is much easier on the 550 and it is easier to handle a malfunction or other problems.

martin_j001
05-22-2016, 11:30 AM
^^Thanks, good info for sure. And yeah, my price comparison above did not include a case or bullet feeder...just considering it as I could add that at a later time if I wanted.

Mitch
05-22-2016, 03:59 PM
I wouldn't buy a 650 without a case feeder. You don't really take advantage of the auto indexing without it. If you aren't planning on getting the case feeder I'd get a 550 and not look back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ranger
05-22-2016, 04:51 PM
I was lucky and got three Square Deals cheap - 9, 40, and 45. Very nice setup. If you see a "cheap" Square Deal consider it.

olstyn
05-22-2016, 06:29 PM
I wouldn't buy a 650 without a case feeder. You don't really take advantage of the auto indexing without it. If you aren't planning on getting the case feeder I'd get a 550 and not look back.

Auto indexing has benefits beyond pure speed. It's REALLY hard to double charge or squib a round when the shell plate advances on its own, for example. It's also one less motion you have to make on every cycle, which is nice, and IMO makes it easier to get into a smooth rhythm while loading.

martin_j001
05-23-2016, 10:01 AM
Auto indexing has benefits beyond pure speed. It's REALLY hard to double charge or squib a round when the shell plate advances on its own, for example. It's also one less motion you have to make on every cycle, which is nice, and IMO makes it easier to get into a smooth rhythm while loading.

Between this and the ability to add the powder check die, I ended up choosing the 650 without the case feeder for the time being. Maybe I'll add that for my birthday and help speed the process up even more in a few months time.

Notso
05-30-2016, 07:29 AM
I'm a big fan of a Dillon. Their service is pretty incredible. Everything from tech support to parts replacements- I can't complain. I have had a 550 for years and I only do .45 and 9mm. I bought the case feeder which worked great but added complexity and as someone said, that complexity equals speed until it jams. I actually just took it off and am thinking of selling it (sounds like a great upgrade for LL!). I think I just like touching the brass and putting it in there myself. Sometimes I can notice cracked brass just from feel alone.

The "simplicity" of the 550 is nice when it comes to troubleshooting. It may not be fastest but it works well and is steadfast and reliable. As someone else said, some of the other machines are faster- until they jam and then it kinda evens out in the wash. I think I can do 100rds in around 10 mins not including primers and case prep. .45 is easier because everything is a little bigger.

mmc45414
06-10-2016, 09:39 AM
Between this and the ability to add the powder check die, I ended up choosing the 650 without the case feeder for the time being. Maybe I'll add that for my birthday and help speed the process up even more in a few months time.

I did the same thing with the SL900 in 20g, and I rigged up a little PVC pipe funnel and it has really not been that slow. I keep meaning to buy the feeder and will, but it is the second shooting season without it. But it is easy to manage a hull and wad with my left hand.

You may have inspired me to try the same aproach if I want to try the 650.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk