Disneyland's Security Screening

[Kukuforguns]

After San Bernardino I heard that Disneyworld in Florida had instituted new security screening procedures, which included walk through metal detectors. They are at Disneyland/California Adventure as well.

The standard warning given on the tram ride from the parking lots to the park has been modified to include the following statement (IIRC): "selfie sticks, weapons, and objects that look like weapons including toy guns are not permitted in Disneyland or California Adventure. Guests older than 14 may not wear costumes or masks." I was carrying my normal EDC (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16474-EDC-items-photo-thread&p=334616&viewfull=1#post334616), which includes a SAK Classic, a Byrd Meadowlark (Chinese made version of the Delica with serviceable steel), and a StreamLight Protac 2L. The StreamLight was clipped to the left pocket and both knives were carried deep in the right pocket.

Previously, the security procedure had involved people who looked in bags and for visible weapons, which had included knives. There are substantially more security personnel now. There are still the bag checkers (my backpack, filled with snacks, water, and first aid kits triggered no concern). There are now Spotters, who identify people who will receive secondary screening. The Spotters approach people ("Winners") who meet whatever criteria Disneyland has and politely ask the Winners to go through a secondary screening. The Spotters walk the Winners to a walkthrough metal scanner which is manned by Scanners. Scanners ask Winners to put all metal objects in a familiar plastic bowl (whoever makes these bowls has made a lot of money since 9/11) and then walk through the metal scanner. This is as far as a I got on my first attempt because I was selected as a Winner.

The Scanner saw my SAK Classic (my keys were the first thing I pulled from my pockets) and immediately said you can't bring that into the park. Given that the Classic is only slightly bigger than the multivitamin I take, I responded, "Really?!" I continued to pull stuff out of my pocket until I got to the Meadowlark. I was informed I could not bring that into the park either and the Scanner asked me to talk with yet another layer of security, the Smile. The Scanner pointed out the Classic and the Meadowlark to the Smile and the Smile said that the Classic was allowed but that the Meadowlark could not be brought into the parks. No one was concerned by the StreamLight. I was given the option of permanently surrendering the Meadowlark or returning it to my vehicle. I chose option two.

When I returned (without the Classic or the Meadowlark), I was again selected (by different Spotters) to be a Winner. I did the pocket dump again and walked through the scanner without incident.

The incident was irritating for a couple of reasons. First, the security procedures are not really designed to make people safer in Disneyland. There are no knife attacks in Disneyland. Normal park goers are not stabbing each other (it's the "Happiest place on earth" dontcha know). These procedures are nominally intended to prevent terrorists/active killers. However, I could have brought a zirconia ceramic blade into the park without a problem (so long as there are no metal pins). Same with glass, black-powder, kerosene, etc. So, no, the security procedures are not going to prevent any criminal who performs even the most basic recon (which active killers frequently do). What the security procedures are intended to do is limit Disney's liability. Disney can now say it took reasonable procedures to prevent weapons from entering and therefore defend itself in the inevitable lawsuit that will be filed once some nutjob kills/hurts people at a Disney park. So, that's my first pet peeve. Disney's actions only make one entity safer, and that entity is Disney.

My second pet peeve is that I clearly meet Disney's Winner profile. I was wearing blue jeans, a t-shirt, and a short-sleeved overshirt. My EDC makes visible bulges in my blue jean pockets. I'm assuming any one of three factors triggered the extra scrutiny: (1) bulging pockets; (2) something (the StreamLight) clipped to my pocket; (3) the overshirt. I asked a male acquaintance I met at the park if he had been screened, and he had not (he had none of the indicators I mentioned). He was later somewhat surprised when he discovered I brought a flashlight into the park (I didn't tell him I carry one every day).

I was already planning on buying some of the more innocuous pants referenced in the recent pants thread which will have bigger pockets and decrease the issue of printing gear. I am also now suddenly interested in the pocket organizer thingies that you slide into a pocket for clipping gear.

The most amazing thing was that my wife stated that we should discuss whether we will continue to give Disney our money given Disney's increasingly intrusive scrutiny. She's previously been willing to forgive the various indignities required to enter a Disney park. She hates when some of her underwire bras set off the metal detectors (some use a rigid plastic insert instead of a metal insert) at airports, triggering an unpleasant experience. Is that coming to Disney soon too?

[GardoneVT]

After San Bernardino I heard that Disneyworld in Florida had instituted new security screening procedures, which included walk through metal detectors. They are at Disneyland/California Adventure as well.

The standard warning given on the tram ride from the parking lots to the park has been modified to include the following statement (IIRC): "selfie sticks, weapons, and objects that look like weapons including toy guns are not permitted in Disneyland or California Adventure. Guests older than 14 may not wear costumes or masks." I was carrying my normal EDC (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16474-EDC-items-photo-thread&p=334616&viewfull=1#post334616), which includes a SAK Classic, a Byrd Meadowlark (Chinese made version of the Delica with serviceable steel), and a StreamLight Protac 2L. The StreamLight was clipped to the left pocket and both knives were carried deep in the right pocket.

Previously, the security procedure had involved people who looked in bags and for visible weapons, which had included knives. There are substantially more security personnel now. There are still the bag checkers (my backpack, filled with snacks, water, and first aid kits triggered no concern). There are now Spotters, who identify people who will receive secondary screening. The Spotters approach people ("Winners") who meet whatever criteria Disneyland has and politely ask the Winners to go through a secondary screening. The Spotters walk the Winners to a walkthrough metal scanner which is manned by Scanners. Scanners ask Winners to put all metal objects in a familiar plastic bowl (whoever makes these bowls has made a lot of money since 9/11) and then walk through the metal scanner. This is as far as a I got on my first attempt because I was selected as a Winner.

The Scanner saw my SAK Classic (my keys were the first thing I pulled from my pockets) and immediately said you can't bring that into the park. Given that the Classic is only slightly bigger than the multivitamin I take, I responded, "Really?!" I continued to pull stuff out of my pocket until I got to the Meadowlark. I was informed I could not bring that into the park either and the Scanner asked me to talk with yet another layer of security, the Smile. The Scanner pointed out the Classic and the Meadowlark to the Smile and the Smile said that the Classic was allowed but that the Meadowlark could not be brought into the parks. No one was concerned by the StreamLight. I was given the option of permanently surrendering the Meadowlark or returning it to my vehicle. I chose option two.

When I returned (without the Classic or the Meadowlark), I was again selected (by different Spotters) to be a Winner. I did the pocket dump again and walked through the scanner without incident.

The incident was irritating for a couple of reasons. First, the security procedures are not really designed to make people safer in Disneyland. There are no knife attacks in Disneyland. Normal park goers are not stabbing each other (it's the "Happiest place on earth" dontcha know). These procedures are nominally intended to prevent terrorists/active killers. However, I could have brought a zirconia ceramic blade into the park without a problem (so long as there are no metal pins). Same with glass, black-powder, kerosene, etc. So, no, the security procedures are not going to prevent any criminal who performs even the most basic recon (which active killers frequently do). What the security procedures are intended to do is limit Disney's liability. Disney can now say it took reasonable procedures to prevent weapons from entering and therefore defend itself in the inevitable lawsuit that will be filed once some nutjob kills/hurts people at a Disney park. So, that's my first pet peeve. Disney's actions only make one entity safer, and that entity is Disney.

My second pet peeve is that I clearly meet Disney's Winner profile. I was wearing blue jeans, a t-shirt, and a short-sleeved overshirt. My EDC makes visible bulges in my blue jean pockets. I'm assuming any one of three factors triggered the extra scrutiny: (1) bulging pockets; (2) something (the StreamLight) clipped to my pocket; (3) the overshirt. I asked a male acquaintance I met at the park if he had been screened, and he had not (he had none of the indicators I mentioned). He was later somewhat surprised when he discovered I brought a flashlight into the park (I didn't tell him I carry one every day).

I was already planning on buying some of the more innocuous pants referenced in the recent pants thread which will have bigger pockets and decrease the issue of printing gear. I am also now suddenly interested in the pocket organizer thingies that you slide into a pocket for clipping gear.

The most amazing thing was that my wife stated that we should discuss whether we will continue to give Disney our money given Disney's increasingly intrusive scrutiny. She's previously been willing to forgive the various indignities required to enter a Disney park. She hates when some of her underwire bras set off the metal detectors (some use a rigid plastic insert instead of a metal insert) at airports, triggering an unpleasant experience. Is that coming to Disney soon too?

I wonder about their employee screening.

As the saying goes, every palace has a servants entrance.

[MD7305]

Thanks for the info, I'm headed down this month. I was aware that Disney World was pretty much a no-go with firearms but I hadn't ever though my EDC folder would be an issue. You probably saved me some embarrassment and a trip back to the car.

[HCountyGuy]

Ah, "security theatre" at its finest.

So, had you not won their screening lottery, you could've walked in with anything you could affix to your person?

[RJ]

Having lived in Orlando, The Rat is only interested in:

1) Vacuuming as much money from your wallet as possible, and

2) Preserving The Rat's 'family' image (see 1), above.)

Everything they do revolves around these two principles. I think you had the right answer for your pat down in 'limit liability'. They have excellent attorneys on staff that don't miss a trick.

[41magfan]

My gut tells me it's fairly probable that a female wearing a hijab could enter just about any venue without being hindered by any physical scrutiny. I would like to think I'm completely wrong in that assumption, but I'm not so sure.

[Luke]

Well now I really want to go and see if I'm a winner or not.

[ranger]

My opinion is that all the security screenings, no weapon signs, etc. are purely an attempt by companies (and the government) to limit their liability. The question to ask is "since I am disarmed by your policies, do you now take liability for my personal safety?". The answer of course is if you do not like the rules, then do not come inside. My former employer - .mil - was the worst.

We went to Disneyworld for the first time in decades for a vacation. I felt like I was in the seediest area outside a military base where local "establishments" vied with each other to fleece soldiers from their pay - in fact, most communities seemed to have cleaned up those areas around the base over the last decade.

[Kyle Reese]

Another establishment that will never see a cent of my money.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Ntexwheels]

I go by 1 rule. If I can't carry my 1911 and my 2 knives, I have no reason to be there!

[Dagga Boy]

My gut tells me it's fairly probable that a female wearing a hijab could enter just about any venue without being hindered by any physical scrutiny. I would like to think I'm completely wrong in that assumption, but I'm not so sure.

I can tell you for certain that the guy in the man dress, angry beard, and wife (not sure what she looked like or even a woman) in a full burka will be welcomed at Disneyland like Alladdin and Jasmine. While I returning to my car with a smaller folder (Strider SNG). It was a fluke they caught it, but nobody touched or said boo to the poster terror family. I got jammed again after the car trip about the clip on my flashlight.....I made a huge scene about profiling and they let me go before they found the gun...;). I have been to Disneyland literally several hundred times with only a couple issues. I will not be returning. It is a huge terror target. More so, it is a place where criminals take their families as well. I was called out by name by a high ranking Hell's Angel. Apparently, for the HA's, Disneyland is hallowed neutral ground, but I don't think everyone is on that program.

These days, like many, no gun-no go at public venues. Heck, I will drive over flying far greater distances than most folks to avoid issues. I was a huge Disney customer and usually there weekly. No anymore.

[LSP972]

I swore off of them before all the 9/11 uproar. Their security goons are (or were in 2000, the last time I went) under the incorrect impression that they are the real po-lice. This was at the Florida venue; I wrote off stepping foot inside Kalifornia even longer ago than this.

They found out pretty quick that a bullshit concern directed against a hot, tired, pissed-off REAL cop who doesn't want to be there in the first place can get real ugly, real fast. And they never found my gun, either.:cool:

.

[Kukuforguns]

One of the things that surprised me was the Scanner's concern regarding the Swiss Army Classic. The Smile, who had greater authority, said it was fine to go. The fact that the Scanner thought it was a problem meant he'd probably never seen one before during screening. I have a difficult time conceiving that such a large percentage of people (in SoCal) don't carry any kind of bladed tool. I give Classics away like candy because of their utility combined with their innocuousness. I guess I need to give away a LOT more.

[Kukuforguns]

Funny you should say that - my brother is a Disney attorney. He works in content creation (movies) to make sure Disney does't violate other entities' intellectual property.

[Josh Runkle]

Hypothetically, I would guess that there are a lot of people that centerline carry a knife, or similar, and just walk straight in to those parks.

[StraitR]

Up until the latest Disney security changes, I carried AIWB a no-lock 638 and Endura because they made no attempt to physically check my person. I've done this countless times as a local resident and annual pass holder to each of the park properties. Historically, the Disney security protocols had only forced me into a smaller gun and to move my knife inboard out of my pocket. That was no big deal, but obviously, things have changed.

If my daughter didn't wear the biggest ear to ear smile from the second we board the tram or boat on the way in until the second she passes out from utter exhaustion, we would never go. Some of the most memorable moments of my childhood were at Disney, on the same rides and watching the same shows. Tomorrow is not promised, and I want my kids to have those same memories of their childhood and our family. So, I'll do what I can to keep them as safe as I can when we're there, but telling my family we can't go because Daddy is unable to take a gun/knife is simply not an option.

In the end, it's an individual choice, and this is one of the VERY rare occasions that I won't err on the side of caution. It's a decision that's subject to change as I monitor the never-ending flow of security and threat information as best I can.

ETA: If we didn't live 45 minutes from the back gate to Disney property, and had not been going constantly for the last couple years, we would simply never go and nobody would be the wiser.

[Kukuforguns]

Up until the latest Disney security changes, I carried AIWB a no-lock 638 and Endura because they made no attempt to physically check my person. I've done this countless times as a local resident and annual pass holder [Same] to each of the park properties. Historically, the Disney security protocols had only forced me into a smaller gun and to move my knife inboard out of my pocket [Same]. That was no big deal, but obviously, things have changed.

If my daughter didn't wear the biggest ear to ear smile from the second we board the tram or boat on the way in until the second she passes out from utter exhaustion, we would never go. Some of the most memorable moments of my childhood were at Disney, on the same rides and watching the same shows. Tomorrow is not promised, and I want my kids to have those same memories of their childhood and our family. So, I'll do what I can to keep them as safe as I can when we're there, but telling my family we can't go because Daddy is unable to take a gun/knife is simply not an option.

In the end, it's an individual choice, and this is one of the VERY rare occasions that I won't err on the side of caution. It's a decision that's subject to change as I monitor the never-ending flow of security and threat information as best I can.

ETA: If we didn't live 45 minutes from the back gate to Disney property, and had not been going constantly for the last couple years, we would simply never go and nobody would be the wiser.

The metal detectors are potentially a game changer. I just asked my 12 year old if he still enjoys going to the parks. He said yes. I know the 7 year old still enjoys going. We'll have a family talk to see how much the intrusive security protocols irritate us on personal and philosophical grounds.

Part of what is so irritating to me is that I do not view my folder as a weapon -- it's called a Meadowlark for crying out loud. I know it can be used as a weapon and am willing to use it as such for defensive purposes. But I use it virtually every day for mundane crap. I have never, not once, used it as a weapon. I've even used it at the Disney parks for mundane tasks (slicing fruit, opening packages, etc.).

[Vinh]

Went to Disney World for Christmas. CONUS was due for more Islamic direct action, and the Magic Kingdom was the perfect target. I was expecting airport-style security, but instead found one metal detector used for random politically-correct screenings. I realized that Disney effectively bluffed the entire Muslim community. Minimal financial expenditure, minimal disturbance to guests, and no terror strike during prime time due to numerous press releases of increased security.

[TC215]

I can tell you for certain that the guy in the man dress, angry beard, and wife (not sure what she looked like or even a woman) in a full burka will be welcomed at Disneyland like Alladdin and Jasmine. While I returning to my car with a smaller folder (Strider SNG). It was a fluke they caught it, but nobody touched or said boo to the poster terror family. I got jammed again after the car trip about the clip on my flashlight.....I made a huge scene about profiling and they let me go before they found the gun...;). I have been to Disneyland literally several hundred times with only a couple issues. I will not be returning. It is a huge terror target. More so, it is a place where criminals take their families as well. I was called out by name by a high ranking Hell's Angel. Apparently, for the HA's, Disneyland is hallowed neutral ground, but I don't think everyone is on that program.

These days, like many, no gun-no go at public venues. Heck, I will drive over flying far greater distances than most folks to avoid issues. I was a huge Disney customer and usually there weekly. No anymore.

I read a book a year or two ago written by a DEA guy who spent his whole career doing UC stuff. He wrote about meeting high-level bad guys multiple times at Disneyland to broker international dope and gun deals.

EDIT: The book was "The Dark Art" by Edward Follis.

[Trooper224]

Fuck Disney. That's all I have to say about that.

[ubervic]

I cannot lawfully carry in all environments, so I pick & choose.
I'll keep going to Disney.
The place is expensive but everything works, everything is clean, all employees do their job and everything runs on-time.

Safest place on earth? I do not know.
Does my family dig it? Yup.

[Drang]

Possibly related, John "Oh, John Ringo, no!" Ringo had a terrorist attack on Disney World as the centerpiece of his "Paladin of Shadows" novel A Deeper Blue. (http://www.baen.com/Chapters/1416521283/1416521283.htm?blurb)
Yes, this had some of the content that led to the "Oh, John Ringo, no!" thing.

[farscott]

WDW is kinda sacred to my family as I have been going since I was a teen, and my wife and daughter are HUGE Disney fans. My wife and I are actually members of the Disney Vacation Club and go about once every other year as our "couple's escape". My wife is hinting at doing a vow renewal there for our twenty-fifth anniversary, so we deal with the security theater. In my experience, Disney does a good job of dealing with trouble in the parks as most trouble is drunk and disorderly and teens. Of course, I have seen nothing that shows how Disney would respond to a Paris-style attack.

I kinda like the whole "Scott cannot carry anything" as I am supposed to be on vacation and relaxing, and I never fully relax when I am armed. So it is nice to just spend a little time (five days) in "condition green". We do try to avoid any stupid stuff, and we tend to choose times when the crowds are very limited, like the second week of January or October. It is a deliberate choice to spend some downtime in a place where my legally-concealed weapons are not welcome. It may not be the right choice for others, but it works for my family.

[camsdaddy]

The family and I went at Christmas. While I was not chosen a winner I was qualified looking at those who were. I couldn't help but notice that if you were wearing a burka or looked to be of middle eastern decent you walked right in.

[Hambo]

Of course, I have seen nothing that shows how Disney would respond to a Paris-style attack.


Quick hose down of the blood and back to business as usual. Oh, you meant to say, "Would Mickey drop his shorts and pull out an Uzi and save me?" No, he would not. Nor would anybody else.

With or without faux security Disney manages to suck ass and scream "Kill the unarmed mouse worshiping infidels!" So fuck Mickey.

[Dagga Boy]

Disney (at least in California Disneyland) has extensive security in place you never see. Far more than they show at the gates and the guys in the blue hats and Mickey badges. They have a lot of off duty/undercover LE, using their LEOSA status or agency status to carry, but don't recognize others. Also, extensive use of K9's. I am sure active shooter stuff has been well rehearsed and there is an extensive plan.
I have been round and round with Disney as again, for local LE folks, running into prior clients at Disneyland is a very good possibility. Their reasoning for banning concealed carry for LE has been that several officers have lost or dropped guns in the park and on rides. Sort of understand as I know many LEO's use crap for off duty holsters and are irresponsible, but I also hate the punish everyone for the sins of a few approach that is a policy adopted across the board for a world where individual responsibility is a bad word.

I am thankful we had wonderous years where my family spent a ton of time there when my kid was young and my wife was alive. I proposed to my wife at Disneyland, and we made the decision to have a child during a discussion while at Disneyland. It was a part of my childhood and my kids. My wife spent one of her last good days there where we rented a room on property and stayed a couple days so she could enjoy what we knew would be her last trip there. It bothers me that I am of the unwanted type there. Again, I have been there hundreds of times. Want to get "flagged for attention and profiled", look like an off duty cop or similar. Fastest way through the gates with zero attention....man dress and wife in a hijab (they may at least be looking harder at the full burka's that are fairly rare). Who knows, next trip I may get a man dress and little white skull cap. That man dress should be good for concealed carry. I have a Disney "outfit" and rig I use there, but it is not metal detector friendly.

[MD7305]

It's clear in this thread that guns and other items are a no-go in the park itself. What are my options if I'm staying at an "on property" lodging? Please excuse my ignorance, I've never been and know nothing of how Disney World is situated it laid out.

On a side note for Floridians...if I visit the Space Center what should I expect? (LEOSA-applicable)

[farscott]

It's clear in this thread that guns and other items are a no-go in the park itself. What are my options if I'm staying at an "on property" lodging? Please excuse my ignorance, I've never been and know nothing of how Disney World is situated it laid out.

On a side note for Floridians...if I visit the Space Center what should I expect? (LEOSA-applicable)

We always stay on property (usually at Bay Lake Towers which is right next to the Magic Kingdom), and, if we drive, we do bring the carry gear. If we fly, none of it comes as the luggage is essentially out of our control once we arrive at the departing airport. Each hotel room has a small safe that can be used to lock up a few pistols and assorted carry gear. The way we do Disney is that once we park the car in the resort parking lot, it never moves again until we are departing Disney, so we use all of the Disney transport. On the Disney transport, weapons are a no-no, but there is no visible security on any of the transport.

[Tamara]

Last time I was at Disney was when I was down in Orlando for SHOT. Bear in mind that in January of '02 the rubble of the World Trade Center had literally barely cooled and everybody was still waiting for some other big terrorist shoe to drop. The country was on Terror Alert Plaid and the front page stories in the paper in my hotel room every morning were about anticipated attacks.

I went with my landlord and his wife and kid to Disneyworld and went through the laborious disarming protocol in the car, divesting myself of everything but an innocuous-looking Leatherman Juice. When we got to the gate and I saw that Disneyland's then-new enhanced security consisted of glancing in purses, I kicked myself, having left a brace of Smifs locked in the car that would have strolled through the gate without a second look. When we went to Disney's Animal Kingdom the next day, I had the 296 and the 38 along in case the lion got out of its cage.

Walk-through metal detectors change that. A metal detector is the only "No Guns" sign that really has any clout, as far as I'm concerned.

[AKDoug]

One of the best days of my life (no offense to any of you that enjoy it) was when my 7 y.o. daughter said "this place sucks, can we go back to the desert and explore?".. my older kids resoundingly agreed. We never set foot in Disneyland again.

[rob_s]

Just like the libs, if you go around looking for things to spark your indignance, theme parks are a great place for it.

We had annual passes to Disney world a few years ago. Went all the time and only ever got stopped for the metal detector once. Got my bag hand searched and had the same knife pass through several
Times until it got caught. :shrug:

Everyone has their own triggers, but for me, not going places that my kids absolutely loved and which produced thousands of hours of great memories just because I don’t like their politics or policies is pretty fucked up. It’s not like they were asking to go to Coachella or a heroin den. Lots of things we do and places we go are potentially hit targets.

Stay home and the terrorists and libtards win.