Precision Rifle: Training

[Sal Picante]

Yesterday, I asked a few questions regarding precision rifle equipment.

Shifting gears, what, specifically, do people think is the most effective way to practice for PRS events?
(Quoting Tim Ferris, "What you do is more important than how you do everything else...")

For example: I can take a guy that has never shot a pistol and, assuming some limited faculties, budget and desire, turn him into a A-class USPSA shooter within a year. I can do this because I have a very specific plan on exactly what to practice, up to what point, until a person is "good enough".

So... What is the bread and butter in PRS?

[SLG]

I dont shoot prs, so take this for what its worth. Im looking forward to hearing what others say as well.

Learn to read wind accurately. Everything else is pretty simple compared to that.

Obviously, knowing your gun in and out is critical. Be able to reload it in position, and be able to shoot well from all positions, even jackass ones.

Get the best scope you can. As always, i prefer nightforce. The 4-16 is probably perfect for prs. Know your dope.

Be able to range quickly, and move from target to target quickly, while adjusting dope.

Im sure you know most of this, and most of it will be easy for you to pick up.

Learn to read the wind accurately.

[Sal Picante]

Im sure you know most of this, and most of it will be easy for you to pick up.

I really appreciate you chiming in here on these thread - mucho respect, bro.

I know very little about this; most of the rifle shooting I've done has been from standing position (International Air Rifle) and working with the 22...

Looks like good equipment can help maximize performance - for that the surveys at precision rifle blog have been helpful. Additionally, the "How much does it matter" series really hits on wind calls as one of the big variables to learn.

I'm guessing I'll be practicing a lot of positional shooting, etc...

[SLG]

Les,

I get that you are actually new to precision rifle stuff, but my point is that a gm pistol shooter understands how to run a gun, and often understands how to press a trigger. Shooting a rifle fast and accurately is no different, all the same concepts apply. I dont doubt that you will get dialed in on this pretty quickly. However, greatequipment is even more im poo rtant in prs than in uspsa.


Recoil control is paramount, and the symetrical concept is the same. This can be practiced at 100 on yards on paper. Get to the point where you can see your impacts through the scope as they hit the paper, and your recoil control will be excellent.

Again, other than some weapons handling and recoil control, knowing your scope is critical. How fast you can be effecient is where it is at.

In case the hint was lost by anyone, wind is the deciding factor. Period. The rest is pretty easy, really, but the guy who reads and adjusts the best for wind, is almost always going to win. The only way to get good at that is to shoot in the wind a lot. However, youcan dry fire your wind practice too. Take your kestrel with you everywhere you go. Guess what the wind is doingand then check it. This will allow you to calibrate yourself in fairly short order. Of course, that only teaches you to read wind at your location. What its doing at the target, and everywhere in between is what is really difficult to learn. You dont always have handy vegetation everywhere you want.

[Cookie Monster]

I am a pistol guy who has taken a couple precision rifle courses which I have really enjoyed. No PRS experience.

My issues were developing the ability to pull the trigger at a given point in the respiratory pause (bottom, middle, or top of the breath), effectively running the bolt, and getting the ability to see my hits through the scope. Most of this could be worked on in my garage with dry practice.

The classes I have taken have unfortunately been under pretty mild conditions with known ranges or relatively easy ranging.

Too many things to shoot, too little time.

[rjohnson4405]

What precision rifle courses are people taking that are good to go?

I've heard Rifles Only is reputable.

I'd be more interested in mid-range semi auto stuff (SPR distances) than much beyond 600 yards but that may change.

Looking for qualified schools/instructors as I'm having trouble find real AARs to vet with.

Been a long time lurker on SnipersHide but their new layout is unusable and unsearchable.

[HCM]

What precision rifle courses are people taking that are good to go?

I've heard Rifles Only is reputable.

I'd be more interested in mid-range semi auto stuff (SPR distances) than much beyond 600 yards but that may change.

Looking for qualified schools/instructors as I'm having trouble find real AARs to vet with.

Been a long time lurker on SnipersHide but their new layout is unusable and unsearchable.

NYETI did an article on Training at Rifles only for the Surefire propaganda magazine a few years ago. Hopefully he will chime in here.

I've heard good things about precision rifle training by Jim Smith at Spartan Tactical as well.

[Cookie Monster]

What precision rifle courses are people taking that are good to go?

I've taken Mid-Range Rifle at Thunder Ranch twice now and I would recommend it. I am close to Magpul Core classes out of Yakima, WA and been eyeing classes there for a while.

[BobM]

If you are near southeastern Ohio check out Thunder Valley Precision. The owner offers a few training days a year and might still be willing to schedule individual or small group training


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[scw2]

For example: I can take a guy that has never shot a pistol and, assuming some limited faculties, budget and desire, turn him into a A-class USPSA shooter within a year. I can do this because I have a very specific plan on exactly what to practice, up to what point, until a person is "good enough".

Would you be willing to share in another thread? Would be interesting to see if what I'm working on is totally off base to becoming a better shooter and areas I should work on.

[SLG]

Would you be willing to share in another thread? Would be interesting to see if what I'm working on is totally off base to becoming a better shooter and areas I should work on.

That would be interesting to read.

[Clobbersaurus]

That would be interesting to read.

Seconded.

[Trigger]

I've shot rifles for a long while, and shot some PRS competitions. I am by no means a top competitor, I cannot commit enough time to that sport. What I have to say I will caveat by saying that these are my techniques, not procedure. Take 'em as my opinions. Who knows, I could be wrong.

Rifle training. Lets assume a bolt gun in 6.5/260 as per the other thread. First task is learning to shoot and follow through so the shot goes where you want it to. Rifle shooting has a follow through, just like other sports. How you place your body behind the rifle, how you hold the rifle, how you place your cranium behind the scope, how you squeeze the trigger, and how you hold that position during recoil all have an effect on the shot. First you need to learn how to do this and master it. 100 yards works fine.

Once you master these skills, then transfer them to the ground (or prone on your bench) and shoot from a prone position. Let assume a bipod. Sling shooting is a whole art itself. (A good art, but not a necessary path to travel enroute to PRS rifle mastery). Shooting prone from a bipod should be an easy transition from seated at the bench. Learn how to consistently shoot from prone at 100yds, such that you are as accurate as you are from the bench.

From there, two branches to explore: hasty position shooting, and shooting at range in the wind. Position shooting is mastering a lot of unconventional / unstable body positions, and achieving the same level of accuracy as from prone. This takes practice, and some understanding of traditional shooting positions. The more you can make a PRS shooting body position into a stable repeatable platform, the better off you are. If you view photos from various PRS shoots (Rifles Only, etc...) you will see lots of improvised shooting positions. Practice these at 100 yards, practice stability (bone-bone contact), breathing, running the bolt, trigger squeeze/release and rifle follow through. Try to get your accuracy up to the level of prone.

Shooting at distance in the wind. Another art. Best learned as a team, with a good spotter and a good spotting scope. Shoot at ~500yards, and focus the spotting scope about halfway to target. Watch the bullet trace in the spotting scope. It is more challenging to be a good spotter than a good shooter. A shooter needs to shoot accurately. The spotter needs to be able to provide accurate and effective corrections to the shooter to place the next shot (if missed) on target. The spotter needs to be able to range (laser), estimate range (mil-sizing), estimate winds (from flags or mirage) and provide pre-shot estimated corrections. Plan on dialing elevation (on the scope turret, or the horus-style reticle) and holding wind offsets on the reticle. Clear, concise standardized communications between the spotter and shooter are important. Buy establishing this, the shooter and spotter can quickly/effectively see the miss, plot the correction, and send the next round. This is not a simple skill, and takes solid practice. "Target 3, range 480 yards. Set 2.3 Mils. Hold .4 Mils right for wind." "On target" "Send it" "Miss left and low" "Hold top edge, favor right edge." or "Set 2.5 Mils, hold .6 right for wind" "Hit."

So now you combine these skills and you can start to compete in PRS style events. You will shoot as teams or individuals, at varying ranges in varying wind/mirage conditions, from a variety of shooting positions. Rarely will you shoot from classic prone.

On a side note, 22 long rifle can teach you a LOT about shooting at range. Shooting a .22 trainer at 200 yards has been compared to a .308 at 800 yards. I have found follow through is even more important when shooting the .22. Winds will push that little 40gr bullet around a lot, and the time of flight and bullet drop to 200 is significant. No need to get cosmic, a CZ 455 in a decent stock with a nice scope (or the one off your 6.5/260 using QD rings) will work nicely. Anschutz 54 or Rem 40X in a stock is better, but not required for the training benefit. If you cannot practice at 800 or 1000 very often, the a .22 at 100-200yds works well.

Learn to run and love a ballistic computer. I use Shooter on my iPhone (by Bryan Litz), others work well also. Kestrel has one on some of their mind meters. It takes the math out of long-range elevation and windage.

Before you shoot a stage, draw a map in your notebook and figure out ranges, elevation, wind corrections. Step up to shoot a stage with a plan. If shooting as a team, brief the plan before shooting. After the stage, debrief whether it was a good plan execute poorly, or a shitty plan to start. Either way, learn from your mistakes and shoot better next time.

[Sal Picante]

I've shot rifles for a long while, and shot some PRS competitions. I am by no means a top competitor, I cannot commit enough time to that sport. What I have to say I will caveat by saying that these are my techniques, not procedure. Take 'em as my opinions. Who knows, I could be wrong.


That's good info - thanks.

[Sal Picante]

Seconded.

I'll see if I can devote the time to it in "thread form"...

[Failure2Stop]

I'm not a dedicated PRS shooter, but rather SPR/DMR type stuff with semi-autos with a past in military precision shooting in a combat role, but I think that the little things here cross the boundary without much translation:

Don't be afraid to dial. With the advent of hold-off reticles lots of folks are simply holding off for a target array. Dialing in the median range makes the transition through an array with minor hold differences easier.

Use an armboard. Number the targets and indicate the needed hold/drop/adjustment/whatever needed to get the hit.

Don't get drowned in minutia. Focus on consistency.

Get a Kestrel with Applied Ballistics. Maintain the data. Use it as a reference, not a faith system.

Practice working from your drop chart (not electronic) and intuitive wind holds. There will come a time when technology will fail and wind will change during a course of fire.

Don't shoot bad shots.

[R.M.T.]

My take,

I RO for Competition Dynamics on occasion, gauge your wind not just at the muzzle but in the intermediate ground as well. Know how to shoot across terrain features. And at least at the match sites High angle knowledge is pretty important. Shoot lots of out of possession and off of nature obsticals, don't rely on gear too much it always seemed that the guys who shot the best had the most minimalist set up. Take all of this with a grain of salt because of the terrain encountered at these matches, rugged and we intentionally make the stages and the shoot positions difficult. and there was typically some sort of physical exertion involved in it.

Also, this is just a casual observation from those matches, of you cant make an offhand 100yard shot on an 8in steel because of muscle fatigue either pair the rifle down, or get stronger. This is perhaps where I saw the most failings.

Other than that go RO a match usually they welcome the help, i have learned more about the game that way then actually playing it.