PDA

View Full Version : Always check



Hambo
01-31-2016, 06:46 AM
A cardinal rule of safe reloading is to always check everything you do. Even though you've loaded thousands of the same load before, look in the book before you start again. Even though you have one progressive dedicated to .45acp, verify the powder measure is throwing the right charge. Basically, double check every single thing you do and you'll be fine.

What happens if you don't? Yesterday I was loading small quantities of .30-06 for a new pistol barrel. Primers were to be Winchester WLR. There was a blue Winchester box of 100 primers laying on my bench, and I didn't look at it carefully other than to see "rifle" on it even though I had last been loading .338 WM. Why? Because I remembered that WLR are for standard and magnum loads. I loaded my few small lots of ammo and when cleaning up, I actually looked a the primer box which was labeled WLRM, or Winchester Large Rifle Magnum. WTF? What I "remembered" was wrong. Winchester Large Pistol are for standard and magnum loads, but there are two different rifle primers: WLR and WLRM. I probably could have used the WLRM primers as all rounds had starting loads, but the safe and smart thing was to pull them down and start over. All I lost was a little time, but it was not cool.

Moral of the story: you will fuck up if you trust yourself. Check everything, then check it again. Safe reloading is really about obsessive QC.

Jared
01-31-2016, 10:47 AM
Moral of the story: you will fuck up if you trust yourself. Check everything, then check it again. Safe reloading is really about obsessive QC.

That right there. I've been loading for a little over 15 years, rifle, pistol, and shotgun; single stage and progressive. In all that time, I had one squib ( a shotgun shell) and no other trouble. It's all about your own obsessive QC.

I always tell anyone looking to get started that it's not a race! You might not make as many in an hour as the press advertises, but you'll be better off if you take the extra time for QC.

JAD
01-31-2016, 12:39 PM
An essential part of Quality is documentation and traceability. I strongly encourage anyone who is taking up reloading to establish a part number and lot code system.

For those of you who haven't worked in a manufacturing environment, and are not comfortable with the concept of this sort of system, here is a simple version that should help you accomplish the basic goal.

For the part number, create an Excel spreadsheet which has as its left axis the part number. I create separate tabs for each cartridge that I load. For the part number it doesn't matter as long as it's unique. I use a cartridge code like 45A or 9LG followed by a – followed by a four digit serial number. For the top axis, use as many identifying characteristics as you can to help keep the part number truly unique. Examples include cartridge overall length, crimp diameter, brand of bullet, shape of bullet, weight of bullet, etc. I also make sure to include expected velocity per load book, followed by average velocity and standard deviation from Chrono data.

Make a separate Excel sheet for the lot codes. For each code, record the part number,the date,and the lot of each component used. I personally record a note when ever there is any sort of a jam or interruption in the reloading process.

I create a new lot code each time I sit down to reload, and I use a new code any time any of the components change lot codes. Creating as many lot codes as possible helps segregate inventory in the event that you find a defect.

Jared
01-31-2016, 01:05 PM
I load 9mm on a Dillon. I spot check on a schedule. It works like this. I check my scale with check weights, verify it's accuracy, then check a powder charge, then the weights again. After that, I check oal and crimp on the last loaded round. I empty that bin into my ammo can and start loading the next bin full. That way, if something is off, I've only got the number of rounds in that bin that need pulled down (usually less than 100).

Kyle Reese
01-31-2016, 01:42 PM
I load 9mm on a Dillon. I spot check on a schedule. It works like this. I check my scale with check weights, verify it's accuracy, then check a powder charge, then the weights again. After that, I check oal and crimp on the last loaded round. I empty that bin into my ammo can and start loading the next bin full. That way, if something is off, I've only got the number of rounds in that bin that need pulled down (usually less than 100).

I use a very similar system.

Lomshek
01-31-2016, 05:54 PM
I use a very similar system.

Sounds very similar to mine.

Before I start a session I'll actuate the powder die to throw ten (10) charges and add each one onto my electronic scale. I'm looking for the throw to throw variance and the total to be within my acceptable range so I know there's not a problem causing an occasional short or over charge and that the average throw is consistent instead of just checking a few. I picked this method up from Glen Zediker's book on AR reloading.

After that I'll check my first few rounds out of each 100 or so rounds for OAL and crimp diameter.

All done with the intent to make sure nothing has changed since my last session.

This is for 9mm. For rifle I'd add a final check with a headspace gauge to make sure shoulders are set back correctly.

JAD
01-31-2016, 06:02 PM
Exactly like Lomshek. I record the ranges for powder and OAL and check off chamber and primer checks in my lot sheet.

Slavex
02-01-2016, 04:29 AM
I agree, I had an issue in 2013/14 when I came back from a trip, moisture had wicked into the powder measure through a crack in the casting and got into the powder I'd left in it. I just continued loading from where I'd left off, not thinking there was a problem. It wasn't until I'd blown a couple cases up, and luckily not my gun, that I decided to investigate it further. Once I found out the powder was wet I tore everything apart, got things fixed and started it all up again. Could have been a big big issue, and I should have known better

robs9
02-01-2016, 06:44 AM
I reload 45,9,380. Always check powder throw manually. At first I check with my electronic scale 5 or 6 times. To check for any variation. Once satisfied, I see t up my powder Cop die, (Hornady). I also check after 10 rnds. I keep a log on date, load(grains), bullet weight,primer used, name of brass used. Then I copy all that on a small piece of paper and put it in the container. So far no squibs and no over charges. I have though not reprimerd a few and wondered where the powder was coming from in the bin. LOL😉

SENT from: My KINDLE FIRE HD

Clusterfrack
02-01-2016, 09:47 AM
At the volume I reload in 9mm, I don't check powder in each case. I use the RCBS Lockout Die, which locks up the press if powder is too low or too high.

SecondsCount
02-01-2016, 11:46 AM
I doubt you will see much of a difference between magnum and standard primers.

Years ago when I started reloading, I accidentally substituted Hodgdon International Clays for Universal Clays. Nothing really bad happened except when I shot the rounds they were hot! When I got home and double checked everything I realized my mistake.

I can see the level of powder (Dillon 650) in my 9mm rounds as I load them and as long as there is powder, I drop a bullet to be seated.

GardoneVT
02-01-2016, 11:57 AM
As the victim of a reloading error which by the grace of chance only damaged my wallet ,I want to thank you guys for being so detailed when reloading.

Edit:the vendor was a large scale "remanufactured ammo" shop I won't name publicly. For details beyond this post PM me.

JM Campbell
02-01-2016, 01:27 PM
Sounds very similar to mine.

Before I start a session I'll actuate the powder die to throw ten (10) charges and add each one onto my electronic scale. I'm looking for the throw to throw variance and the total to be within my acceptable range so I know there's not a problem causing an occasional short or over charge and that the average throw is consistent instead of just checking a few. I picked this method up from Glen Zediker's book on AR reloading.

After that I'll check my first few rounds out of each 100 or so rounds for OAL and crimp diameter.

All done with the intent to make sure nothing has changed since my last session.

This is for 9mm. For rifle I'd add a final check with a headspace gauge to make sure shoulders are set back correctly.
Exact same procedure for me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Hambo
02-01-2016, 05:48 PM
I doubt you will see much of a difference between magnum and standard primers.


I checked as many articles as I could find, read a lot about various pressure cartridges in TC Encores, and the consensus was that it might push them from starting .30-06 loads to maximum .30-06 loads. I wasn't willing to take that risk in a break action pistol. YMMV.

All my rifle and specialty pistol ammo is loaded on a single stage press, using an RCBS Chargemaster powder measure/dispenser. 9mm, .38, .357, .45acp, and some .44mag are loaded on one of two RL550Bs. Tool heads have measures set for one powder. I run about 10 cases of powder to make sure it's OK before loading ammo, then I visually check each case for powder before adding a bullet.

My rules are only one type of primer and powder on the bench. Verify powder charge from a manual or manufacturer data before starting. No powder is left in measures at the end of loading. No TV or other distractions while loading.

I log all my loaded ammo in a notebook and label each box. I can match ammo by date/caliber/bullet type/powder/etc.

This time I took my eye off the ball for a second on one component. It might not have been catastrophic, but that doesn't make it right.

Slavex
02-01-2016, 06:34 PM
I bought a dillon powder die to throw on my Rockchucker with a Hornady Lock N load bushing so I can swap it out easily. My new routine is to pull the measure off the 1050, confirm the load on the RC with two scales, then back on the machine. Then, check the first 3 or 4 rounds, running the MK VII in single operation mode. Then I check randomly. Every round is case gauged as it comes off the press and boxed. As I'm not pulling a handle I can just catch the rounds as they come out and put them straight into the gauge, although at 1800 an hour it's a fight to keep up when fumbling the caught rounds.

olstyn
02-01-2016, 06:43 PM
One other thing that falls under "always check" - always chamber check and/or case gauge your rounds. It's not fun to find out that your dies have become maladjusted by having to pound a case out of the chamber with a rod (or in my case, a pen) at the range because it was just enough out of spec to still go into battery and fire, but got stuck there. Thankfully nothing was harmed but my pride, and the only pen I had with me that day. Every round since that day has been chamber checked. Learn from my mistakes...

JAD
02-01-2016, 06:51 PM
One other thing that falls under "always check" - always chamber check and/or case gauge your ...

I chamber and primer height check a sample per lot for practice ammo. If it's going to a match or a class it gets checked 100%. That's also when I cull .45 cases that have more than 2 or 3 cracks.

Hauptmann
02-02-2016, 07:34 PM
I don't know how many tens of thousands of rounds I have loaded over the years, but I have only had one screw up that I am aware of. I was doing some 9mm load development on a Dillion 550b, so I was pulling casings, dumping powder back in the hopper,.....etc as I was trying to get the ideal charge. Well, I got distracted and lost my focus, resulting in a 9mm bullet getting pressed into a case with no powder. Went to the range to fire a 5-shot group, and the second shot was little pop with no recoil. Fortunately, I stopped everything and checked on what happened. The primer had pushed its way out of the back of the case to release the gases generated by the primer, and the bullet had squibbed itself in the barrel. If it was a training environment, I might have tapped, racked, and fired again which would have likely resulted in a KB as follow up round would have jammed into the squib. It was easy to push the squib back out, but it could have ended badly.

SLG
02-02-2016, 08:10 PM
I don't know how many tens of thousands of rounds I have loaded over the years, but I have only had one screw up that I am aware of. I was doing some 9mm load development on a Dillion 550b, so I was pulling casings, dumping powder back in the hopper,.....etc as I was trying to get the ideal charge. Well, I got distracted and lost my focus, resulting in a 9mm bullet getting pressed into a case with no powder. Went to the range to fire a 5-shot group, and the second shot was little pop with no recoil. Fortunately, I stopped everything and checked on what happened. The primer had pushed its way out of the back of the case to release the gases generated by the primer, and the bullet had squibbed itself in the barrel. If it was a training environment, I might have tapped, racked, and fired again which would have likely resulted in a KB as follow up round would have jammed into the squib. It was easy to push the squib back out, but it could have ended badly.

I would never say always or never in this case, but I have seen a round fired behind a squib load several times. usually it just pushes the squib out the barrel. Often it bulges the barrel, but that usually doesn't matter too much, though it certainly can. Never have I seen a gun blow up from it. I'd like to hear if someone can actually verify that a squib caused a blow up, as opposed to something else that they are not aware of.

JAD
02-03-2016, 06:10 PM
Folks have asked if I would send them the excel sheet I use. I have created a stripped out template that you can play with. I'm no excel pro, but it works for me. I'm happy to PM it to anyone who'd like. If you significantly improve it, PLEASE send it back to me.

Slavex
02-03-2016, 07:15 PM
I watched a guy nuke his 1911 in 40 with a squib back when I started IPSC, the RO didn't catch the squib (we all did) but the shooter tap racked and fired. blew the chamber out of the ejection port, cracked the slide and blew the mag out. He wasn't happy. Bad bruised hands too. Also saw the same with a Glock at the range in 40, shooter was two stalls over from me, I was loading mags, heard the pop, stepped back and didn't have time to say anything as again, this shooter tap racked and BOOM. he had to go the hospital to get plastic out of his hands. But he healed up fine. Gun was a total write off.

SLG
02-03-2016, 07:38 PM
I watched a guy nuke his 1911 in 40 with a squib back when I started IPSC, the RO didn't catch the squib (we all did) but the shooter tap racked and fired. blew the chamber out of the ejection port, cracked the slide and blew the mag out. He wasn't happy. Bad bruised hands too. Also saw the same with a Glock at the range in 40, shooter was two stalls over from me, I was loading mags, heard the pop, stepped back and didn't have time to say anything as again, this shooter tap racked and BOOM. he had to go the hospital to get plastic out of his hands. But he healed up fine. Gun was a total write off.

Wow.

Slavex
02-03-2016, 11:44 PM
I've had a couple case failures that I am reasonably certain were from low powered loads, not squibs, but can't prove it. They blew the mags out of the guns, toasted a couple extractors but no other damage to the gun.

SecondsCount
02-04-2016, 12:01 AM
I would never say always or never in this case, but I have seen a round fired behind a squib load several times. usually it just pushes the squib out the barrel. Often it bulges the barrel, but that usually doesn't matter too much, though it certainly can. Never have I seen a gun blow up from it. I'd like to hear if someone can actually verify that a squib caused a blow up, as opposed to something else that they are not aware of.

I really think it has something to do with the case capacity and powder burn rate. Faster powders will spike really fast.

I had a friend that split a 38 revolver cylinder in half with a squib load and have seen a a 6" 357 Taurus with the 3 bullets stacked in the barrel. First guy was using Bullseye (fast) and the other was Power Pistol (medium).