LE Training for Plain Clothes

[the judge]

Our agency is looking at delivering training in plain clothes operations to all of our officers. By plain clothes I am referring to patrol guys that are switching from uniform to plain clothes (street clothes). So I'm not referring to plain clothes off duty carry, UC operations or detectives. As required, our guys can go from uniformed patrol to plain clothes in the same shift. More often than not they are planned events for short periods of time to conduct surveillance or support an investigative or enforcement function.

I've been around long enough and have been trainer long enough to know that there are some distinct challenges posed by working the job out of uniform in street clothes, especially for those with no experience doing it.

If anyone has any experience with this as a trainer or otherwise that could share what their agency offers in the way of training/tactics specific to these type of operations, it would be much appreciated.

If you want to keep the training/tactics side of things confidential I can forward my agency email, just hit me up with a message.

(I apologize if this is posted half a dozen times...work filters keep blocking me!)

[Gadfly]

Being a FED, we are plain clothed all the time. When we do a pre planed enforcement operation (warrant or such), everyone puts on their ninja shit to look cool. But 98% of our time is jeans and pull over polo shirts.

When we qual, everyone wants to wear drop leg holsters and cool guy gear. But that is not the reality of what they wear every day. We have recently taken to having our agents come up to the qual line as they got out of the car. Some complained that they needed time to put on the battle belt. Nope. If your gun is on your ankle, hip, purse, pocket, walk up to the line and we go as is for the qual course. Some complained that they "left their magazines in the car"... it was pathetic.

We just wanted to show them that what you have on you is typically all you get for the duration of a fight, and if you don't carry it on your body all the time, you probably wont have it when you need it.

My point (that it took so long to get to) was, make your guys shoot your course a few times with their plain clothed gear, from concealment. It is the best you can do. If you see them come to the range with a nice belt mount ALS, but you know they carry appendix in the field, make the qual how they carry...

It is also important for them to remember that not everyone knows everyone else in policing. It there is a shooting, and they are in plain clothes make sure they get that gun out of their hands when patrol arrives. Someone who has been in uniform for years my have a hard time shifting gears and thinking "plain clothed" mentality if you don't emphasize it in training.

Pretty generic advise, but hopefully its a starting point.

[voodoo_man]

As you may or may not know I worked what is either considered plainclothes or UC for several years.

I will first start out saying that the really meaty stuff is OPSEC and no one should post it. You are in Canada so there are all sorts of legal issues with giving information in a training format to a non-US citizen.

The easiest way to explain how to go from uniform to non-uniform duty is to stop being a police officer. Stop dressing like one, stop having the facial expressions like one, stop using command presence, stop carrying OWB, start carrying IWB (and very discreetly), start thinking like a criminal, dressing like the people you are targeting (think about this specifically to implement it). Grow your hair out, mustaches are good, beards (unkept) are better, grow your hair out, non-standard hair styles are good as well.

There is a lot more, a lot, more that I cannot put out in public, hell I could probably teach a two week course about it.

[Coyotesfan97]

Don't grow a goatee, don't wear cargo shorts, and don't all wear the same style of shoes

[the judge]

Being a FED, we are plain clothed all the time. When we do a pre planed enforcement operation (warrant or such), everyone puts on their ninja shit to look cool. But 98% of our time is jeans and pull over polo shirts.

When we qual, everyone wants to wear drop leg holsters and cool guy gear. But that is not the reality of what they wear every day. We have recently taken to having our agents come up to the qual line as they got out of the car. Some complained that they needed time to put on the battle belt. Nope. If your gun is on your ankle, hip, purse, pocket, walk up to the line and we go as is for the qual course. Some complained that they "left their magazines in the car"... it was pathetic.

We just wanted to show them that what you have on you is typically all you get for the duration of a fight, and if you don't carry it on your body all the time, you probably wont have it when you need it.

My point (that it took so long to get to) was, make your guys shoot your course a few times with their plain clothed gear, from concealment. It is the best you can do. If you see them come to the range with a nice belt mount ALS, but you know they carry appendix in the field, make the qual how they carry...

It is also important for them to remember that not everyone knows everyone else in policing. It there is a shooting, and they are in plain clothes make sure they get that gun out of their hands when patrol arrives. Someone who has been in uniform for years my have a hard time shifting gears and thinking "plain clothed" mentality if you don't emphasize it in training.

Pretty generic advise, but hopefully its a starting point.

Generic is good. I am all for getting our people to train with what they carry and how they would normally carry it everyday and not do the "range" ensemble thing. I'm tracking with you on the mentality shift, that is one of the things I intend to focus on which goes hand on hand with things you need to do or not do to keep you from getting shot when the uniforms arrive.

[Gadfly]

I was generically taking guns in my first post, as I thought that was the question.

Adding to Voodoo man:

Don't wear anything 5.11 or Tactical looking.

Don't carry two wallets (one personal, one "cred"). Having two wallets in the back pockets screams cop to turds.

Oakley,'Wiley X and other shooting style sun glasses are also a giveaway.

As voodoo mentioned, how you stand can affect the look. I had a CI (snitch) that often told me I walk like a cop. We covered an under cover meeting for him one time in a bar. Afterward, he told me he spotted my two guys at the bar, and one at a table. We had 6 guys in there. He picked 3 of them out of about 40/50 people in the bar.

Some professional crooks are good at what they do.

[41magfan]

As already noted, the ones that really matter can spot a COP wearing a clown suit at a birthday party. The ones you are actually fooling (or think you're fooling) are simply the criminal derps.

[the judge]

As you may or may not know I worked what is either considered plainclothes or UC for several years.

I will first start out saying that the really meaty stuff is OPSEC and no one should post it. You are in Canada so there are all sorts of legal issues with giving information in a training format to a non-US citizen.

The easiest way to explain how to go from uniform to non-uniform duty is to stop being a police officer. Stop dressing like one, stop having the facial expressions like one, stop using command presence, stop carrying OWB, start carrying IWB (and very discreetly), start thinking like a criminal, dressing like the people you are targeting (think about this specifically to implement it). Grow your hair out, mustaches are good, beards (unkept) are better, grow your hair out, non-standard hair styles are good as well.

There is a lot more, a lot, more that I cannot put out in public, hell I could probably teach a two week course about it.

Hey man, to clarify...NOT looking for the meaty stuff that would violate OPSEC or even anything that would come remotely close to UC work. I offered to provide my agency contact IF anyone wanted to go outside a general public discussion. Not looking to challenge the whole ITAR thing either. I'm familiar with you through your excellent pics and gear reviews but don't know anything about your work on the job.

I will provide a generalization of what our guys might be doing and the training topics I'm looking at covering. If after there is a feeling this shouldn't be discussed any farther and no one wants to comment any farther then I humbly submit to have the thread locked.

So lets say patrol guys are taking reports for B&E and theft in an area that is being hit repeatedly over a short period of time. They are pulled from uniform and put in plain clothes and unmarked squads to do static and mobile patrols of the area. So we are talking basic non-uniform surveillance/interdiction for short intervals with the idea of shutting down the problem as quick as possible. They are wearing everyday street clothes, usually multiple layers of clothing to deal with the elements. The are fully tooled up with duty pistol in a plain clothes holster, spare magazine pouches, OC spray, baton, handcuffs, radio and ear piece, belt and or neck badge, body armor, flashlight, and so on. To the average person, our normally uniformed patrol guy in jeans and a shirt will pass casual scrutiny, for a little while at least. To the trained eye, not more than a second or two.

General training topics I have considered so far:
-policy
-mandatory equipment
-police identification
-communication (internal and external)
-de-confliction (how not to burn someone else's op)
-draws from concealment
-holstering with concealment
-reloads from concealment
-transitions from lethal to less lethal with concealed equipment
-dealing with uniformed response/uniformed challenge

When I decided to post here about this it was with knowledge that while I have done a fair amount of work in plain clothes over the years I don't profess to know everything. I DO know there are guys I could learn from here that have worked entire careers in this arena. Thanks again.

[SLG]

Hey man, to clarify...NOT looking for the meaty stuff that would violate OPSEC or even anything that would come remotely close to UC work. I offered to provide my agency contact IF anyone wanted to go outside a general public discussion. Not looking to challenge the whole ITAR thing either. I'm familiar with you through your excellent pics and gear reviews but don't know anything about your work on the job.

I will provide a generalization of what our guys might be doing and the training topics I'm looking at covering. If after there is a feeling this shouldn't be discussed any farther and no one wants to comment any farther then I humbly submit to have the thread locked.

So lets say patrol guys are taking reports for B&E and theft in an area that is being hit repeatedly over a short period of time. They are pulled from uniform and put in plain clothes and unmarked squads to do static and mobile patrols of the area. So we are talking basic non-uniform surveillance/interdiction for short intervals with the idea of shutting down the problem as quick as possible. They are wearing everyday street clothes, usually multiple layers of clothing to deal with the elements. The are fully tooled up with duty pistol in a plain clothes holster, spare magazine pouches, OC spray, baton, handcuffs, radio and ear piece, belt and or neck badge, body armor, flashlight, and so on. To the average person, our normally uniformed patrol guy in jeans and a shirt will pass casual scrutiny, for a little while at least. To the trained eye, not more than a second or two.

General training topics I have considered so far:
-policy
-mandatory equipment
-police identification
-communication (internal and external)
-de-confliction (how not to burn someone else's op)
-draws from concealment
-holstering with concealment
-reloads from concealment
-transitions from lethal to less lethal with concealed equipment
-dealing with uniformed response/uniformed challenge

When I decided to post here about this it was with knowledge that while I have done a fair amount of work in plain clothes over the years I don't profess to know everything. I DO know there are guys I could learn from here that have worked entire careers in this arena. Thanks again.

I do that kind of work every week. Pm me if you like, but honestly, most of that stuff is either stuff to work out on a range (or dry fire), and the rest is your agency's policy. In the U.S., there is a specific strategic deconfliction procedure that we follow. Don't know how you guys do that North of the border. For tactical deconfliction, surely your agency covers that in the academy? We have not found a reason to deviate from what I consider to be a basic LE practice for as long as I've been alive. I'm sure you guys already know that stuff.

[the judge]

I do that kind of work every week. Pm me if you like, but honestly, most of that stuff is either stuff to work out on a range (or dry fire), and the rest is your agency's policy. In the U.S., there is a specific strategic deconfliction procedure that we follow. Don't know how you guys do that North of the border. For tactical deconfliction, surely your agency covers that in the academy? We have not found a reason to deviate from what I consider to be a basic LE practice for as long as I've been alive. I'm sure you guys already know that stuff.

Agreed this is stuff that will either will be covered by policy or worked out on the range. Just basically looking to see if I've missed anything obvious from the topic list. As to deconfliction...well for some guys it might be a LONG time since they even visited that concept. I just want to cover my bases. :rolleyes:

[olstyn]

Oakley,'Wiley X and other shooting style sun glasses are also a giveaway.

You must mean in addition to other factors of clothing/posture/presence, right? I'm not a LEO, I wear M-Frames pretty much whenever I'm outdoors, and I know quite a few other non-LEOs who also regularly wear Oakleys or similar. (Most either are currently or were previously athletes or outdoorsy folks of some sort.) I guess if criminals mistake us for cops and give us a wide berth as a result, I'm good with that, but I find it surprising.

[Lon]

Oakley,'Wiley X and other shooting style sun glasses are also a giveaway.


Haha. Used to have a CI that always made me take my oakleys off when we'd go do deals. And they weren't even the typical cop oakleys. Said bad guys don't wear sunglasses.

[voodoo_man]

Shoot me a pm, lets take this offline.

[pablo]

The biggest issues usually aren't training related, it's mindset and maturity issues.

Rule #1: When you're at an active scene and things aren't under control yet, the patrol guy in uniform is always right.

You can' train an officer to drop the "by God I'm POLICE and I'm enforcing the Law!" attitude every time he sees some piddly crap going down. If you appear so innocuous that someone is comfortable doing a hand-to-hand in your vicinity, you're doing something right.

Protect your cars, they're your identity. Once a cars been burned it needs to go. Cars usually get burned by guys getting involved in crap they didn't need to get involved in.

[Hambo]

Don't grow a goatee, don't wear cargo shorts, and don't all wear the same style of shoes

Now there is something that should be in LE SOPs.

[Gadfly]

Random musings...

As far as my sunglasses comment, crooks do judge a book by its cover.

If you are prior military, you probably have a high and tight haircut. You may have a beard. You may wear tac looking boots or cargo pants. Military style tatts are on a lot of cops arms. Any one thing may not attract attention. But a few items off the list may make a crook think "cop" even thought you are just prior military.

You see these guys at the range. BDU pants, specific styles of shirts and hats, military style boots. The style screams cop even though they aren't.

My CI taught me a lot about what crooks talk about in jail. Some of that is how they look for cops. And they do look at sunglasses. Also, I set my car keys on the table at a taqueria. The CI told me to get the handcuff key of my car keys before I got him killed...

Back to the OP... Some more random thoughts...

When I was out in field more often, I would wear a black "police" t shirt as an undershirt. I would buy cheap ass over shirts at wall mart and good will. If we had to pop out and do work, I would just rip of the top shirt and drop it. Take off and do what needed to get done in the police T. If I lost the outer shirt? Who cares, it was a Good Will $2 shirt...

Also, You had mentioned doing drills from concealment. Make sure that your guys can re holster one handed, without looking. If you need to transition to less lethal or go hands on, a cheap, soft, floppy holster means you are not going to be able to re secure the pistol.

(We had an agent who had to pistol whip a bloody shirtless suspect. The bad guy jumped out a window and surprised our agent. Our guy had a cheap IWB holster and could not get the gun holstered. The fight was on. Bad guy got smacked. It was a bad situation and a hard lesson about having a quality holster...)

[Gadfly]

My partner today, wearing the exact boots I was saying scream cop. In his defense, we were sitting in the car all day waiting for a guy to pull up to his front door, so no one saw the shoes...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/404775d20a8cacd80714a3c7d3daed4a.jpg

[SLG]

My partner today, wearing the exact boots I was saying scream cop. In his defense, we were sitting in the car all day waiting for a guy to pull up to his front door, so no one saw the shoes...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/404775d20a8cacd80714a3c7d3daed4a.jpg

Anyone carrying a Sig is allowed to wear whatever boots they want. :-)

[voodoo_man]

My partner today, wearing the exact boots I was saying scream cop. In his defense, we were sitting in the car all day waiting for a guy to pull up to his front door, so no one saw the shoes...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/404775d20a8cacd80714a3c7d3daed4a.jpg

oh gawd...stahp...

[HCM]

My partner today, wearing the exact boots I was saying scream cop. In his defense, we were sitting in the car all day waiting for a guy to pull up to his front door, so no one saw the shoes...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/404775d20a8cacd80714a3c7d3daed4a.jpg

On sale at LA police gear around tax return time ?

On another note, your compadre needs a handcuff case. Besides the obvious issues associated with any type of SOB carry (back injury and getting your hands pinned behind you), you will eventually forget they are there when you need to use the toilet and you will hear a splash .......

Not that this has every happened to me .........:rolleyes:

[BehindBlueI's]

My partner today, wearing the exact boots I was saying scream cop. In his defense, we were sitting in the car all day waiting for a guy to pull up to his front door, so no one saw the shoes...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/404775d20a8cacd80714a3c7d3daed4a.jpg

That's a good partner. "I need to take a picture of your backside and put on the Internet." "Ok."

:D

[brooklynbacon]

Have your department contact NYPD Police Academy...they have a 3-day "plain clothes school" that I attended many moons ago. They go over gear set-up, force on force, weapon retention (fighting red-man suits), and weapons qual from concealment..good stuff.

[Gadfly]

That's a good partner. "I need to take a picture of your backside and put on the Internet." "Ok."

:D

What he does not know won't hurt him. No names, no faces....

He is actually a squared away guy. I have no problem with his job skills. But this sure did seem to fit the topic when he showed up at the office in those! I think the part that really gave us away as cops is we were the only two white guys in a 2 mile radius.

[Cool Breeze]

What he does not know won't hurt him. No names, no faces....

He is actually a squared away guy. I have no problem with his job skills. But this sure did seem to fit the topic when he showed up at the office in those! I think the part that really gave us away as cops is we were the only two white guys in a 2 mile radius.
What footwear do you like that doesn't scream cop? I'm sure you want some type of comfort and protection if there is going to be a chance you are going to be chasing down bad guys. Just some generic outdoor hiking boots? You live in Texas so maybe some of you all wear western style boots like Justins/Ariats/Lucchese, etc. But I am not sure what it would be like to run in those or how much support/protection they give.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[texasaggie2005]

You live in Texas so maybe some of you all wear western style boots like Justins/Ariats/Lucchese, etc. But I am not sure what it would be like to run in those or how much support/protection they give.

Slip on western/cowboy boots absolutely suck for running.

[Gadfly]

Folks, you can wear whatever foot wear you want. Just my experience for dealing with snitches that military style boots make them think cop. But gringo in a no gringo zone also screams cop.

Our policy in the office is no sneakers. But dress shoes, hiking/cowboy/work boots, and casual shoes are allowed. Jeans are allowed as low no as they don't have holes or rips.

Fortunately, I don't have to chase people often. Agreed that leather sole cowboy boots suck to run in. But Justin work boots are comfy as hell! Wearing them as I sit at my desk... Slip on work boots are extremely common here.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/162f5167afc2085d34ffc5cbe1a71aa1.jpg

[BehindBlueI's]

What footwear do you like that doesn't scream cop? I'm sure you want some type of comfort and protection if there is going to be a chance you are going to be chasing down bad guys. Just some generic outdoor hiking boots? You live in Texas so maybe some of you all wear western style boots like Justins/Ariats/Lucchese, etc. But I am not sure what it would be like to run in those or how much support/protection they give.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Tactical flip-flops.

[texasaggie2005]

Folks, you can wear whatever foot wear you want. Just my experience for dealing with snitches that military style boots make them think cop. But gringo in a no gringo zone also screams cop.

Our policy in the office is no sneakers. But dress shoes, hiking/cowboy/work boots, and casual shoes are allowed. Jeans are allowed as low no as they don't have holes or rips.

Fortunately, I don't have to chase people often. Agreed that leather sole cowboy boots suck to run in. But Justin work boots are comfy as hell! Wearing them as I sit at my desk... Slip on work boots are extremely common here.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/162f5167afc2085d34ffc5cbe1a71aa1.jpg
Ariat's are comfy too.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/27f33e5ea0949959ab6cb94d48ece4e2.jpg

[serialsolver]

Folks, you can wear whatever foot wear you want. Just my experience for dealing with snitches that military style boots make them think cop. But gringo in a no gringo zone also screams cop.

Our policy in the office is no sneakers. But dress shoes, hiking/cowboy/work boots, and casual shoes are allowed. Jeans are allowed as low no as they don't have holes or rips.

Fortunately, I don't have to chase people often. Agreed that leather sole cowboy boots suck to run in. But Justin work boots are comfy as hell! Wearing them as I sit at my desk... Slip on work boots are extremely common here.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/162f5167afc2085d34ffc5cbe1a71aa1.jpg

Dude you give me flashbacks of my desk doing reports wit a wireless keyboard in my lap an a wireless mouse on my big belly an the commander comes in an says "what the hell!"


On a more serious note go to a construction site and see what them guys is wearing. That's a pretty good go by.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[voodoo_man]

foruming while on the company dime, tisk tisk...

:cool:

[SLG]

Which Ariats are those? Looks nice.

[texasaggie2005]

Which Ariats are those? Looks nice.

They are a couple of years old, but I believe these (http://www.ariat.com/WORKHOG_MSQ_TOE_CT_M_FOO.html?dwvar_WORKHOG__MSQ__ TOE__CT__M__FOO_color=EARTH#prefn1=Safety_Toe&prefv1=Composite+Toe&start=7) are the current iteration.

[HCM]

Which Ariats are those? Looks nice.

If you like that style boot check out HH (Double H) - U.S. Made and re-soleable.

http://www.doublehboots.com

[texasaggie2005]

If you like that style boot check out HH (Double H) - U.S. Made and re-soleable.

http://www.doublehboots.com

I always liked the look & feel of the HH boots, but they never held up well for me. I can wear out a pair of work boots within a year, and have tried a lot of different brands. These Ariats are the first pair that have lasted longer than a year for me.

[HCM]

I always liked the look & feel of the HH boots, but they never held up well for me. I can wear out a pair of work boots within a year, and have tried a lot of different brands. These Ariats are the first pair that have lasted longer than a year for me.

The Ariats are nice but Sasquatch here wears 14EE's and the Ariats run a bit narrow even in EE.

I need a pair of these: http://www.blackjackcowboyboots.com/mebljabodole1.html

[Gadfly]

foruming while on the company dime, tisk tisk...

:cool:

You noticed that...

Yesterday was arresting folks day. Today is paperwork from yesterday. Once you submit a report or two, you have to wait for the supervisor to read and approve it. Until then, I surf!

[HCM]

You noticed that...

Yesterday was arresting folks day. Today is paperwork from yesterday. Once you submit a report or two, you have to wait for the supervisor to read and approve it. Until then, I surf!

You are a Firearms Instructor - it's research and professional development for your collateral duties.

[secondstoryguy]

The ALERRT academy in Texas has a plainclothes class specifically geared towards LE.

[HCM]

The ALERRT academy in Texas has a plainclothes class specifically geared towards LE.

Plain Clothes Response to Violent Encounters - great class.

http://alerrt.org/ofcm/CourseTypes/catalog/36

For the TX LEO the next PCRVE class in San Marcos will be March 2, 2016.

Good training and it's free.

[the judge]

Hmmmm....I haven't been to Texas in awhile....



Plain Clothes Response to Violent Encounters - great class.

http://alerrt.org/ofcm/CourseTypes/catalog/36

For the TX LEO the next PCRVE class in San Marcos will be March 2, 2016.

Good training and it's free.

[voodoo_man]

You noticed that...

Yesterday was arresting folks day. Today is paperwork from yesterday. Once you submit a report or two, you have to wait for the supervisor to read and approve it. Until then, I surf!

Sure sure...I don't wait for anyone to approve anything ;)

[HCM]

Vokdooman - I know you're joking, but gadfly is not kidding. The way our system works you have to complete each step of the process and wait for the supervisor to approve it. It's a fairly archaic system. And God help you if you make a mistake in something other than the narrative like linking different parts of your case.

[voodoo_man]

Vokdooman - I know you're joking, but gadfly is not kidding. The way our system works you have to complete each step of the process and wait for the supervisor to approve it. It's a fairly archaic system. And God help you if you make a mistake in something other than the narrative like linking different parts of your case.

That's...unfortunate.

[Gadfly]

This is the Feds. Nothing moves fast...

[wsr]

My partner today, wearing the exact boots I was saying scream cop. In his defense, we were sitting in the car all day waiting for a guy to pull up to his front door, so no one saw the shoes...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/404775d20a8cacd80714a3c7d3daed4a.jpg

The boots themselves don't scream cop, go to any construction site this style is very common now days.It's the condition that screams "out of place" same with the jeans and the shirt...all work style garments that have obviously never been worked in.