Sal Picante
01-22-2016, 12:40 PM
Overview
I’m in Florida for a few weeks over the winter and decided to hit up Robert Vadasz to see if we could blast together, hoping to absorb any pointers regarding accuracy and preparation for Bianchi cup. I know from some proviso discussions that Rob is getting started trying to figure out how to set things up to handle training classes in the future and I figured I’d be able to be a good guinea pig. In case some of you don’t know who Rob is, he’s part of the Border Patrol Shooting team, 7 time NRA National Police Shooting Championship winner, and two time Bianchi Cup metallic sight winner. He’s an active BPC agent in the Tampa-area.
Anyway, Rob was nice enough to invite me up to some private land that his family owns north of Tampa (in horse country) where he’s got a practice setup. We met up and drove north from the Sarasota/Bradenton area to an amazing 35 acre ranch, replete with Spanish-moss covered oaks, tall pines and nice, rolling hills (natural backstop). Rob's two boys, both of 'em super into baseball, rode up with us so they could hang out with grandpa, himself a bullseye shooter.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/vadasz/IMG_2750.jpg
Setup
I rolled down with my USPSA gear since I'm planning to shoot the Florida Open in February.
I've got my older Beretta Elite 92G with a Dawson Front sight and Novak rear sight since I'm waiting on a few things for the Wilson guns. The Elite is pretty used, but (as I’ll describe later) still shoots just fine. Ammo was my own 124gr Precision Delta JHP and 4.0gr-ish of Titegroup. (Mixed brass and CCI primers)
Rob had a variety of guns:
Nowlin 6" 1911 with aristocrat rib
Nowlin 5" 1911
Tricked out XDm 5.25
Jones Custom PPC Revo with an aristocrat rib
Several other PPC 1911's and Revos...
He was shooting a variety of Atlanta Arms and Ammo ammunition:
.38 Wads for the PPC revo
115 gr Hornady XTP 9mm
Federal 124gr Hydrashock duty ammo - T&E proved this to be some primo stuff!
He ran a Safariland ELS rig - makes sense since everything stays in the same place...
What we worked on...
I've had some changes in my life that are increasingly making it difficult to keep up with the USPSA training and match travel. (I still love it, almost more than anything...) So... I've been deciding to shift a bit to practice based more-so on the fundamentals of shooting: Bullseye and Bianchi (I'd shoot PPC if the NRA ever opened it up to (ci)villains...)
I had two goals when approaching this session:
I was curious to pick Rob’s brain about his setup/training methods
I was curious for Rob to diagnose any problems he saw in my shooting…
He started by explaining the various sections of Bianchi Cup and then we started shooting them right away. He’d demo a section (he was practicing too), then we’d count scores and paste targets and I’d get my chance to run a string.
NRA Action/Bianchi format is fairly specific, in that the section are really based on par times, much like a PPC or Bullseye format. Never having run it, I wasn’t sure how tough the par times would end up being.
(A good overview of the entire match and the times are here: http://www.gunnuts.net/2009/01/28/bianchi-cup-courses-of-fire/ )
When all was said and done, I had fired a pretty decent score - sure I had missed a few plates (@15 yards - started to “GO FASTER!”) and on the 50 yard string of the practical had dumped some low shots (still on target, but crufty…). I was surprised, and I think Rob was too, that I wasn’t just a squirt-‘em at the targets hot shit USPSA shooter in a hurry to miss a lot. Having been through the setup once, we were able to hit the pause button and talk about a few things he picked out:
Use the par time to the fullest extent possible - only the practical even has a tighter par on the left hand string. In all the other events, letting the gun settle and really committing to the front sight can set you up for success.
DA triggers are not a disadvantage, however, it is important to just roll through the entire shot, never really letting the hammer stop anywhere. (Especially true on my old Elite which has some stacking/grooves in the trigger bar).
The last “1/8” of the shot, aiming and trigger-wise, is where people mess up. Stay committed to the entire shot process and you’ll be rewarded with better performance, and, better points.
Since 50 yard shooting was my weakness, we setup a few drills to see what we could refine at that distance.
We moved to a “shooting porch” structure that had a bench setup at ~55 yards to work off bags. I fired several groups in SA remembering the points that Rob had made above and was rewarded with a handsome group just under 5” in diameter (tending to vertical stringing). The group was a little low (I used a 6o’clock hold), so I experimented on the next string with POA/POI hold and learned that I should pretty much just be aiming for the black center.
Further experimentation would shrink the group a bit, but flyers would keep the size a bit on the larger size. I’m convinced that loading some better “match” ammunition, maybe some new Starline cases and some slower powder with a 115, could shrink that group down even smaller - point noted there. On the other hand, I was thrilled that my standard practice/match ammo held a good enough grouping at 50 yards! I crank this stuff out on the automated 1050 - it goes bang every time, but it is far from what I’d consider “precision match” ammunition.
We moved back to the porch again and Rob had me shoot groups in DA-mode only. Taking a break to shake out my hands and refocus my eyes. He coached me through the “keep the hammer moving” and “last 1/8 of the shot” by watching how the hammer cocked and fell in the DA mode. Again, as we walked down to the target, I had shot a group no larger/rougher than what I was capable with in SA.
One of the more interesting points rob made was come back to the old “aim small, miss small” adage - when the target is smaller, our eyes seems to work harder at lining up/keeping the sight lined up. Rob explained that this is one of the reasons a lot of PPC competitors use a “neck hold” at 25 and 50 yards in PPC (with the “flip-able” aristocrat rib sights): the target, i.e. the neck, is much smaller than the massive scoring ring. Even poorer shots when using a neck-hold seem to work their way into a 9 or 10 ring. After hearing that, I’m still convinced that a lot of this goes back to what I’ve been keying into in my past sessions - good trigger control, even at speed, is key. Your eyes will do what they’ll do: give them a small target and they’ll work harder at lining things up, give them a big, ambiguous target and they’ll do the typical (at least in USPSA) “brown and down” thing.
We started shooting the plates from 50 yards to prove that point out, then switching to racing each other on the timer for some fun. I will say that having a fast draw definitely helps - either give you more time to aim, or, assuming a constant aiming time, allows you to break the shot sooner.
We started to clean up and I asked Rob how he approaches a lot of his training. Wasn’t surprised when he said he was limited on time (kid in baseball, work, “the boss”, aka, Mrs) and that he does just a few sessions a month to maintain. Specifically, he touches lightly on the things he is good at and works hard to correct the things he thinks he is deficient in.
For example, Rob shoots all the barricade and practical events from two positions - 15 yards and 35 yards at the shorter distance par times in order to consolidate the effort. I was surprised to learn that he does spend a lot of time shooting the plate rack up close in order to just “let the shot” break as he is more prone to “over aim” shots. Interesting takeaways that’ll play a role in my prep work.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/vadasz/IMG_3318.jpg
After we had things cleaned pretty well, I did spend some time shooting his crazy accurate PPC guns. “Wow” is all I can say… The Jones PPC revolver was one of the most amazing DA triggers I’d ever felt and it put shot after shot on top of each other at 25 yards. Truly cool as hell. The other favorite was the Nowlin 5” 1911. I’m not much of a 1911 fan, but this one just balanced so sweetly and also put all the 115gr AA ammo on top of each other at 25 yards too … Shooting the 6” gun was just not as fun as shooting that sweet 5”… We also plinked a few empty water bottles on the berm - though with a Bob Jones PPC revo I don’t know if you could rightly call it “plinking”…
I’m in Florida for a few weeks over the winter and decided to hit up Robert Vadasz to see if we could blast together, hoping to absorb any pointers regarding accuracy and preparation for Bianchi cup. I know from some proviso discussions that Rob is getting started trying to figure out how to set things up to handle training classes in the future and I figured I’d be able to be a good guinea pig. In case some of you don’t know who Rob is, he’s part of the Border Patrol Shooting team, 7 time NRA National Police Shooting Championship winner, and two time Bianchi Cup metallic sight winner. He’s an active BPC agent in the Tampa-area.
Anyway, Rob was nice enough to invite me up to some private land that his family owns north of Tampa (in horse country) where he’s got a practice setup. We met up and drove north from the Sarasota/Bradenton area to an amazing 35 acre ranch, replete with Spanish-moss covered oaks, tall pines and nice, rolling hills (natural backstop). Rob's two boys, both of 'em super into baseball, rode up with us so they could hang out with grandpa, himself a bullseye shooter.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/vadasz/IMG_2750.jpg
Setup
I rolled down with my USPSA gear since I'm planning to shoot the Florida Open in February.
I've got my older Beretta Elite 92G with a Dawson Front sight and Novak rear sight since I'm waiting on a few things for the Wilson guns. The Elite is pretty used, but (as I’ll describe later) still shoots just fine. Ammo was my own 124gr Precision Delta JHP and 4.0gr-ish of Titegroup. (Mixed brass and CCI primers)
Rob had a variety of guns:
Nowlin 6" 1911 with aristocrat rib
Nowlin 5" 1911
Tricked out XDm 5.25
Jones Custom PPC Revo with an aristocrat rib
Several other PPC 1911's and Revos...
He was shooting a variety of Atlanta Arms and Ammo ammunition:
.38 Wads for the PPC revo
115 gr Hornady XTP 9mm
Federal 124gr Hydrashock duty ammo - T&E proved this to be some primo stuff!
He ran a Safariland ELS rig - makes sense since everything stays in the same place...
What we worked on...
I've had some changes in my life that are increasingly making it difficult to keep up with the USPSA training and match travel. (I still love it, almost more than anything...) So... I've been deciding to shift a bit to practice based more-so on the fundamentals of shooting: Bullseye and Bianchi (I'd shoot PPC if the NRA ever opened it up to (ci)villains...)
I had two goals when approaching this session:
I was curious to pick Rob’s brain about his setup/training methods
I was curious for Rob to diagnose any problems he saw in my shooting…
He started by explaining the various sections of Bianchi Cup and then we started shooting them right away. He’d demo a section (he was practicing too), then we’d count scores and paste targets and I’d get my chance to run a string.
NRA Action/Bianchi format is fairly specific, in that the section are really based on par times, much like a PPC or Bullseye format. Never having run it, I wasn’t sure how tough the par times would end up being.
(A good overview of the entire match and the times are here: http://www.gunnuts.net/2009/01/28/bianchi-cup-courses-of-fire/ )
When all was said and done, I had fired a pretty decent score - sure I had missed a few plates (@15 yards - started to “GO FASTER!”) and on the 50 yard string of the practical had dumped some low shots (still on target, but crufty…). I was surprised, and I think Rob was too, that I wasn’t just a squirt-‘em at the targets hot shit USPSA shooter in a hurry to miss a lot. Having been through the setup once, we were able to hit the pause button and talk about a few things he picked out:
Use the par time to the fullest extent possible - only the practical even has a tighter par on the left hand string. In all the other events, letting the gun settle and really committing to the front sight can set you up for success.
DA triggers are not a disadvantage, however, it is important to just roll through the entire shot, never really letting the hammer stop anywhere. (Especially true on my old Elite which has some stacking/grooves in the trigger bar).
The last “1/8” of the shot, aiming and trigger-wise, is where people mess up. Stay committed to the entire shot process and you’ll be rewarded with better performance, and, better points.
Since 50 yard shooting was my weakness, we setup a few drills to see what we could refine at that distance.
We moved to a “shooting porch” structure that had a bench setup at ~55 yards to work off bags. I fired several groups in SA remembering the points that Rob had made above and was rewarded with a handsome group just under 5” in diameter (tending to vertical stringing). The group was a little low (I used a 6o’clock hold), so I experimented on the next string with POA/POI hold and learned that I should pretty much just be aiming for the black center.
Further experimentation would shrink the group a bit, but flyers would keep the size a bit on the larger size. I’m convinced that loading some better “match” ammunition, maybe some new Starline cases and some slower powder with a 115, could shrink that group down even smaller - point noted there. On the other hand, I was thrilled that my standard practice/match ammo held a good enough grouping at 50 yards! I crank this stuff out on the automated 1050 - it goes bang every time, but it is far from what I’d consider “precision match” ammunition.
We moved back to the porch again and Rob had me shoot groups in DA-mode only. Taking a break to shake out my hands and refocus my eyes. He coached me through the “keep the hammer moving” and “last 1/8 of the shot” by watching how the hammer cocked and fell in the DA mode. Again, as we walked down to the target, I had shot a group no larger/rougher than what I was capable with in SA.
One of the more interesting points rob made was come back to the old “aim small, miss small” adage - when the target is smaller, our eyes seems to work harder at lining up/keeping the sight lined up. Rob explained that this is one of the reasons a lot of PPC competitors use a “neck hold” at 25 and 50 yards in PPC (with the “flip-able” aristocrat rib sights): the target, i.e. the neck, is much smaller than the massive scoring ring. Even poorer shots when using a neck-hold seem to work their way into a 9 or 10 ring. After hearing that, I’m still convinced that a lot of this goes back to what I’ve been keying into in my past sessions - good trigger control, even at speed, is key. Your eyes will do what they’ll do: give them a small target and they’ll work harder at lining things up, give them a big, ambiguous target and they’ll do the typical (at least in USPSA) “brown and down” thing.
We started shooting the plates from 50 yards to prove that point out, then switching to racing each other on the timer for some fun. I will say that having a fast draw definitely helps - either give you more time to aim, or, assuming a constant aiming time, allows you to break the shot sooner.
We started to clean up and I asked Rob how he approaches a lot of his training. Wasn’t surprised when he said he was limited on time (kid in baseball, work, “the boss”, aka, Mrs) and that he does just a few sessions a month to maintain. Specifically, he touches lightly on the things he is good at and works hard to correct the things he thinks he is deficient in.
For example, Rob shoots all the barricade and practical events from two positions - 15 yards and 35 yards at the shorter distance par times in order to consolidate the effort. I was surprised to learn that he does spend a lot of time shooting the plate rack up close in order to just “let the shot” break as he is more prone to “over aim” shots. Interesting takeaways that’ll play a role in my prep work.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/vadasz/IMG_3318.jpg
After we had things cleaned pretty well, I did spend some time shooting his crazy accurate PPC guns. “Wow” is all I can say… The Jones PPC revolver was one of the most amazing DA triggers I’d ever felt and it put shot after shot on top of each other at 25 yards. Truly cool as hell. The other favorite was the Nowlin 5” 1911. I’m not much of a 1911 fan, but this one just balanced so sweetly and also put all the 115gr AA ammo on top of each other at 25 yards too … Shooting the 6” gun was just not as fun as shooting that sweet 5”… We also plinked a few empty water bottles on the berm - though with a Bob Jones PPC revo I don’t know if you could rightly call it “plinking”…