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John Hearne
01-05-2016, 11:00 AM
I found on another forum and had to share. It's the LASD report on their M&P "problems." Link to the report: https://oig.lacounty.gov/Portals/OIG/Reports/Unintended%20Discharge%20Report.pdf

I haven't had a chance to read every page, but it includes gems such as this (Page 20): "A deputy was inexplicably directing traffic with the weapon-mounted light rather than with a flashlight as trained by the LASD. The deputy discharged one round while doing so. This gun light did not have a grip switch attached."

The conclusions seem to support the idea that the ND's were a training issue. Not surprising since my cursory scan showed they had two-hours to get used to the WML.

Tamara
01-05-2016, 11:22 AM
"A deputy was inexplicably directing traffic with the weapon-mounted light..."

The first time I heard that referred to, I thought it was hyperbole for humor's sake and not an actual thing. "Surely nobody could be that dumb," I thought to myself...

John Hearne
01-05-2016, 11:28 AM
"Surely nobody could be that dumb," I thought to myself...

Please, stop thinking that - they take it as a challenge....

Hambo
01-10-2016, 06:59 AM
John, you've got to get into Chiefthink mode: "It's a light. I switch on the light in my office all the time, a WML can't be any harder. Budget two hours training only because firearms guys are whining loudly that it's not that easy."

Chuck Haggard
01-10-2016, 09:02 AM
My information on the LASO program, and that of Denver PD where they have also had numerous NDs with pistols with WMLs, is that what they call "training" is actualy what I would consider the very definition of what the courts have called "deliberate indifference to training".


Training................
5383

TC215
01-10-2016, 10:22 AM
Our patrol division is getting WML's this year. Im waiting for someone to use their's during the HGN test.

Trooper224
01-10-2016, 11:03 AM
Our patrol division is getting WML's this year. Im waiting for someone to use their's during the HGN test.

You say that in jest but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. It took years for us to get WML's on our handguns. Years ago, out former superintendent saw a county deputy use his WML to check the VIN plate on a vehicle. That one stupid action by someone who wasn't even a member of our agency doomed WML's for years.

Stephanie B
01-10-2016, 11:39 AM
The first time I heard that referred to, I thought it was hyperbole for humor's sake and not an actual thing. "Surely nobody could be that dumb," I thought to myself...

Just when you think something has been sailor-proofed, they build a better sailor.... :cool:

TC215
01-10-2016, 11:52 AM
You say that in jest but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. It took years for us to get WML's on our handguns. Years ago, out former superintendent saw a county deputy use his WML to check the VIN plate on a vehicle. That one stupid action by someone who wasn't even a member of our agency doomed WML's for years.

Unfortunately, it was only partly in jest.

ST911
01-10-2016, 03:56 PM
I haven't had a chance to read every page, but it includes gems such as this (Page 20): "A deputy was inexplicably directing traffic with the weapon-mounted light rather than with a flashlight as trained by the LASD. The deputy discharged one round while doing so. This gun light did not have a grip switch attached."


The first time I heard that referred to, I thought it was hyperbole for humor's sake and not an actual thing. "Surely nobody could be that dumb," I thought to myself...

Read that and said, "yup." Not surprised, at all.

Chuck Haggard
01-10-2016, 05:43 PM
If I was a Chief or Sheriff and I had a troop pull some shit like that I would fire them on the spot. They are obviously too fucktarded and lacking in common sense to be allowed to run around with a badge and gun.

pablo
01-10-2016, 05:58 PM
It's an endemic problem. We require by policy that officers that opt to carry a WML, also carry a flashlight on their belt.

We recently had an officer use a WML to "help out" another officer on a felony stop by using his WML to illuminate the susp's hands while the cuffs were being double locked.

L-2
01-10-2016, 06:54 PM
I've been thinking my agency is way behind by NOT approving WMLs, but after reading this thread, I now see management is really there to help and save us from ourselves (partial jest).

With that said, if WMLs do get approved, how much more training (in hours) is really required, given we've already had stand-alone flashlight training. We also don't have lights on our shotguns (we must use only department shotguns), but that's yet another issue.

xcop
01-12-2016, 03:42 AM
I am retired from that department but before I retired I can tell you the detective bureau ceiling and a few desks had holes in them. We also had a guy shoot himself while screwing around. Nitwits with guns play with them instead using them appropriately. Getting fired from that department at least when I was on is less likely than getting hit by lightning. The department actually does move to fire but it seems that in every case the Civil Service hearing reverses the firing. As I am sure you realized 90% of the so called A/D's are never reported and despite the holes nothing is ever said

Sero Sed Serio
01-12-2016, 01:00 PM
I am retired from that department but before I retired I can tell you the detective bureau ceiling and a few desks had holes in them. We also had a guy shoot himself while screwing around. Nitwits with guns play with them instead using them appropriately. Getting fired from that department at least when I was on is less likely than getting hit by lightning. The department actually does move to fire but it seems that in every case the Civil Service hearing reverses the firing. As I am sure you realized 90% of the so called A/D's are never reported and despite the holes nothing is ever said

5418

Drang
01-12-2016, 01:08 PM
And then there was the day the MPs at the guard shack to the SCIF got bored, starting playing fast draw, and shot out the window...

stinx
01-12-2016, 05:37 PM
At my agency we adopted WML in 2009 for all patrol officers. Our training was 4 hours classroom with written tests on policy as well as use of force etc, dry drills practicing manipulating the wml. The range portion was 4 hours at night and included the use of handheld light techniques as well as wml manipulation. We get 4 hours of night fire every year in addition to our 8 hours of daylight training. YMMV

john c
01-13-2016, 10:12 PM
If I was a Chief or Sheriff and I had a troop pull some shit like that I would fire them on the spot. They are obviously too fucktarded and lacking in common sense to be allowed to run around with a badge and gun.

I'm not disagreeing with you, only pointing out that while it's one thing to direct traffic with a WML, it's an entirely different thing to have an ND while doing so.....

Completely different level of fucktardation.

John Hearne
01-14-2016, 09:20 PM
What I find disturbing is the number of times someone probably directed traffic with a WML without an ND.