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DocSabo40
01-01-2016, 05:44 PM
Not positive this is the right place to post this, but it's the best I could come up with.

It occurred to me after reading a bunch of SouthNarc/Cecil Burch/Nyeti threads that I'm basically helpless without my guns. I'm interested in fixing that.

I've read every relevant thread I can find here, and I've come up with a tentative game plan:
1. Start taking BJJ. I have a little boxing and BJJ experience, just about enough to know that I don't know anything.
2. Take professional edged weapon training. Probably after 6 months of developing some kind of grappling skills. No idea where to do this.
3. Take SouthNarc's ECQC course

Anyone have any other advice or input to add? Any decent training places in the greater Phoenix, AZ area?

voodoo_man
01-01-2016, 06:01 PM
If you have no background in fighting of any kind, id highly recommend some sort of ground based submission martial art. BJJ is very widespread and you will probably find a good school in your area just due to saturation. MMA is also good if you want to learn how to strike and the basics of ground fighting.

As for competent blade training, there are many schools of thought, some have been proven to work in the real world, some work in the training world for training value, some are useless in the real world.

Id suggest figuring out a path and strategy to get to where you want to be.

orionz06
01-01-2016, 06:12 PM
I'd go here (http://www.megatonjiujitsu.com/), it's where Cecil trains and try to make BFF's with him.


Your order is fine but I wouldn't skip any of the classes if you haven't met your 6 months of this before that. The best time to take any of that stuff is now. It's not a passport stamp, it's all continual work. Get it while you can. 6 months of BJJ before taking ECQC is the "I'll start my diet tomorrow" of the combatives world.

DocSabo40
01-01-2016, 08:03 PM
How convenient, I didn't realize Cecil trained in Phoenix. Other side of the valley, but I can make that work.

I have some fighting experience but not all that much. Marines, a few months of BJJ 6 years ago, boxing for a year. Thats it. I could deal with an unskilled person my same size or slightly larger, but I would have a very tough time with a career criminal and/or hopped up crazy with a size advantage.

Lester Polfus
01-01-2016, 11:21 PM
If you can go where Mr. Burch goes, I would go there.

Also SN's two DVD's, "Reverse Edge Methods."

David S.
01-02-2016, 09:49 AM
Go see Cecil. Good dude. One of my biggest training regrets is not training with him while I was living in Phoenix a few years ago.

DI1
01-02-2016, 11:07 AM
How convenient, I didn't realize Cecil trained in Phoenix. Other side of the valley, but I can make that work.

I have some fighting experience but not all that much. Marines, a few months of BJJ 6 years ago, boxing for a year. Thats it. I could deal with an unskilled person my same size or slightly larger, but I would have a very tough time with a career criminal and/or hopped up crazy with a size advantage.

Your boxing background will help you with footwork, timing and distance.
Don't underestimate smaller guys, they will typically be more skilled as they have had to fight their entire life.
As you have a very high population of Mexican citizens, become knowledgeable of their knife culture and techniques.
A good reference is Ed's Manifesto, (endpoint.tumblr.com).

Cecil Burch
01-02-2016, 12:24 PM
I teach a stand up striking/clinch class M&W 6-7, and the Fundamental BJJ class right after from 7-8. You are welcome to come by and try a class out to see if it what you are looking for. You can contact me through here if you want more info.

More importantly, Craig will be in town teaching ECQC on Feb 6-8 in NW Phoenix/Peoria. It's a perfect opportunity for you to get the right start.

LittleLebowski
01-02-2016, 12:25 PM
Cecil should be chiming in sooner or later.

<whoops, too slow!>

Totem Polar
01-02-2016, 12:31 PM
This thread seems to have gone reasonably well.

SLG
01-02-2016, 07:14 PM
Also, EWO seems to be a good place to start for the edged weapons specific type stuff. A friend took it last year, and though he had a tiny amount of blade knowledge, he found it very useful. And rough:-)

DocSabo40
01-02-2016, 11:49 PM
Well I certainly decided to ask this as the right time. Just wrote the POC for Craig's class in February, not sure if it's full yet.

Ed's page has some brutal videos on it. Still trying to figure out what's up with the guys hitting themselves on the back with all manner of weapons.

Wondering Beard
01-03-2016, 05:38 AM
Ed's page has some brutal videos on it. Still trying to figure out what's up with the guys hitting themselves on the back with all manner of weapons.

That video is about showing the effect of essentially a slap with the edge on the back whose effect is very similar to a cut Libre teaches.

The people harming themselves are, I believe, Shia muslims in Iran practicing a tenet of their version of Shiism on a holy day.

23JAZ
01-03-2016, 12:47 PM
I teach a stand up striking/clinch class M&W 6-7, and the Fundamental BJJ class right after from 7-8. You are welcome to come by and try a class out to see if it what you are looking for. You can contact me through here if you want more info.

More importantly, Craig will be in town teaching ECQC on Feb 6-8 in NW Phoenix/Peoria. It's a perfect opportunity for you to get the right start.
Just checked out your site. I'm in Anthem and will be coming in to try out a class.

Cecil Burch
01-03-2016, 01:54 PM
Also, EWO seems to be a good place to start for the edged weapons specific type stuff. A friend took it last year, and though he had a tiny amount of blade knowledge, he found it very useful. And rough:-)

I could not agree more. EWO is as good a place to start with knife work as there exists. The only other one I would put in the same category is Chris Fry's similar class. The main difference between the two (besides indivisible preferences/ideas between Chris and Craig) is that Chris' tends to be a one day course which might fit some peoples schedule better. With EWO being a full 18 or so hour course is that you get a lot more repetition under the eye of a coach to go along with the extra time commitment.

The advantage to starting EWO and Chris' is that you develop an excellent eye to help from being fooled by other flashier knife stuff down the road.

Cecil Burch
01-03-2016, 01:55 PM
Just checked out your site. I'm in Anthem and will be coming in to try out a class.

Excellent. Hit me up on PM if you need anything beforehand.

SpyderMan2k4
01-04-2016, 09:45 AM
The advantage to starting EWO and Chris' is that you develop an excellent eye to help from being fooled by other flashier knife stuff down the road.

That's a really interesting point. If we see a video of a guy doing some uber fast draw on steel, but we don't see the steel and just hear the ping... what's that really tell us? We would probably recognize that it could be a 3x3 foot piece of steel 3 yards away. It might look kinda cool, but it really doesn't tell us anything. With guns, we're used to it, and can spot the BS pretty easily. For guys that have never had solid training or exposure to knife work, it becomes easier to be wowed by stuff that really doesn't work, as cool or "effective" as it might look. Getting solid, realistic training early on really allows the BS meter to be a lot more sensitive.

popo22
10-05-2016, 11:48 PM
I realize that I am a little late to give impute to this thread but if this is still relevant: I think a lot of what one looks for in training is what will work for one's own style. That may sound vague but it really isn't. What is your style when it comes to a confrontation, are you more comfortable standing and punching, going to the ground and wrestling, moving and evasive tactics? These are different philosophies in fighting and different schools teach different tactic's to accomplish different results.

If you instinctively go to BJJ/Wrestling (ground fighting) then look for a BJJ/ Judo based school, If "boxing/standing/punching" is your game then maybe a "Wing-chun, boxing, Kempo" type philosophy will work, and if your natural tendency is to avoid/ evade the direct attack then perhaps a "Bagua, Taiji, Silat" school will work for your natural body movement. All of these schools have different philosophies and tactics and you need to know what your natural tendencies are so you can choose to suite your natural style. Styles can be changed but require a long time to totally re-program your natural body movement. Once you realize what your basic inclinations are then you can move toward an appropriate school. Good luck.

Dropkick
10-06-2016, 09:15 AM
I realize that I am a little late to give impute to this thread but if this is still relevant: I think a lot of what one looks for in training is what will work for one's own style. That may sound vague but it really isn't. What is your style when it comes to a confrontation, are you more comfortable standing and punching, going to the ground and wrestling, moving and evasive tactics? These are different philosophies in fighting and different schools teach different tactic's to accomplish different results.

If you instinctively go to BJJ/Wrestling (ground fighting) then look for a BJJ/ Judo based school, If "boxing/standing/punching" is your game then maybe a "Wing-chun, boxing, Kempo" type philosophy will work, and if your natural tendency is to avoid/ evade the direct attack then perhaps a "Bagua, Taiji, Silat" school will work for your natural body movement. All of these schools have different philosophies and tactics and you need to know what your natural tendencies are so you can choose to suite your natural style. Styles can be changed but require a long time to totally re-program your natural body movement. Once you realize what your basic inclinations are then you can move toward an appropriate school. Good luck.

W-T-actual-F, over...
There is no guarantees that a fight, much less a criminal attack, that it is going to be on your terms with your style.
Only if you can survive the initial attack, control the situation, achieve a dominate position, that you can even begin to try to apply your dim mak technique.

ST911
10-06-2016, 10:18 AM
OP- Here's a great thread from last year that addresses what you ask about and more: "The truth about pocket folders as defensive tools?"
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17891-The-truth-about-pocket-folders-as-defensive-tools

Duces Tecum
10-06-2016, 02:44 PM
I realize that I am a little late to give impute to this thread but if this is still relevant: I think a lot of what one looks for in training is what will work for one's own style.

If you instinctively go to BJJ/Wrestling (ground fighting) then look for a BJJ/ Judo based school, If "boxing/standing/punching" is your game then maybe a "Wing-chun, boxing, Kempo" type philosophy will work, and if your natural tendency is to avoid/ evade the direct attack then perhaps a "Bagua, Taiji, Silat" school will work for your natural body movement. All of these schools have different philosophies and tactics and you need to know what your natural tendencies are so you can choose to suite your natural style. Styles can be changed but require a long time to totally re-program your natural body movement. Once you realize what your basic inclinations are then you can move toward an appropriate school. Good luck.

That is my experience, too. Thank you for mentioning it.

By the way, your association of Silat with Bagua and Taiji is illuminating. I'd never put Silat with that group, but upon reflection that's where it belongs. You learn something every moment.

popo22
10-07-2016, 05:26 PM
"Dropkick,
W-T-actual-F, over...
There is no guarantees that a fight, much less a criminal attack, that it is going to be on your terms with your style.
Only if you can survive the initial attack, control the situation, achieve a dominate position, that you can even begin to try to apply your dim mak technique."

If I am understanding you correctly, I totally agree. To my way of thinking that is exactly the reason we practice anything, shooting, martial arts, etc. A lot of people have a tremendous amount of "natural talent" but don't really have a "system/method" to practice in order to hone or enhance that natural talent or natural body movement. Once one can somewhat pin-point their own natural tendencies/movement then a somewhat similar philosophy of movement can give us direction to focus on in order to get the most out of our abilities. You are right that we must be able to survive the initial onslaught attack and the training helps us to improve our odds and somewhat have a plan when the shit lands on us, IMHO.

Dropkick
10-09-2016, 03:58 PM
I realize that I am a little late to give impute to this thread but if this is still relevant: I think a lot of what one looks for in training is what will work for one's own style. That may sound vague but it really isn't. What is your style when it comes to a confrontation, are you more comfortable standing and punching, going to the ground and wrestling, moving and evasive tactics? These are different philosophies in fighting and different schools teach different tactic's to accomplish different results.

If you instinctively go to BJJ/Wrestling (ground fighting) then look for a BJJ/ Judo based school, If "boxing/standing/punching" is your game then maybe a "Wing-chun, boxing, Kempo" type philosophy will work, and if your natural tendency is to avoid/ evade the direct attack then perhaps a "Bagua, Taiji, Silat" school will work for your natural body movement. All of these schools have different philosophies and tactics and you need to know what your natural tendencies are so you can choose to suite your natural style. Styles can be changed but require a long time to totally re-program your natural body movement. Once you realize what your basic inclinations are then you can move toward an appropriate school. Good luck.


W-T-actual-F, over...
There is no guarantees that a fight, much less a criminal attack, that it is going to be on your terms with your style.
Only if you can survive the initial attack, control the situation, achieve a dominate position, that you can even begin to try to apply your dim mak technique.


If I am understanding you correctly, I totally agree. To my way of thinking that is exactly the reason we practice anything, shooting, martial arts, etc. A lot of people have a tremendous amount of "natural talent" but don't really have a "system/method" to practice in order to hone or enhance that natural talent or natural body movement. Once one can somewhat pin-point their own natural tendencies/movement then a somewhat similar philosophy of movement can give us direction to focus on in order to get the most out of our abilities. You are right that we must be able to survive the initial onslaught attack and the training helps us to improve our odds and somewhat have a plan when the shit lands on us, IMHO.

I'm not pretty sure we're talking about the same thing here.

Dropkick
10-09-2016, 05:40 PM
Damn dyslexia...

I'm pretty sure we're not talking about the same thing here.