Glock 43 vs J Frame for off duty backup

[NorthernHeat]

I am looking for an off duty backup gun and had pretty much been set on getting a S&W 442 as a backup to my off duty G19, but for some reason I have begun looking at the Glock 43 with interest.

I carry a 17/26 combo on duty so Glock (with a little HK) are my main shooters.

The main reason I was looking at the 442/J Frame was because I will carry appendix off duty and have found good luck in carrying my backup off duty gun in my back left pocket ( in a pocket holster of course).

I had found doing this with my CM9 in the past, I would find my mag partially ejected when I would take the gun out of the pocket at night.

This made me want to move away from the semi-auto as a back pocket gun and to a revolver.

I usually carry a G19 (appendix) with a 9 o'clock reload on the belt as my off duty for info.

The G43 /J Frame might also fall into a "basketball shorts/ run to get gas with no belt" gun in one of Tony's Universal IWB holsters.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Oh, and if the G43/ J Frame is being used for a backup role, a reload will not be carried for that specific gun (reload only carried for primary gun).

[El Cid]

I made the same switch a few months ago. My G43 replaced my M&P340 for all the roles you just mentioned. I find it easier to conceal, easier to shoot well, and it has better sights. And with the TTI +2 I have 9 rounds of 9mm which beats 5 rounds of 38. I also had the Crimson Trace laser grips on my 340 but spent a lot of time trying to retrain my trigger finger so it wouldn't block the laser when not on the trigger. The TLR-6 gives the G43 a light and laser that is easier to operate and doesn't take away from its ability to ride in a pocket.

[NorthernHeat]

I made the same switch a few months ago. My G43 replaced my M&P340 for all the roles you just mentioned. I find it easier to conceal, easier to shoot well, and it has better sights. And with the TTI +2 I have 9 rounds of 9mm which beats 5 rounds of 38. I also had the Crimson Trace laser grips on my 340 but spent a lot of time trying to retrain my trigger finger so it wouldn't block the laser when not on the trigger. The TLR-6 gives the G43 a light and laser that is easier to operate and doesn't take away from its ability to ride in a pocket.

Very good points sir, thank you!

[Totem Polar]

Honestly, I think this thread is just about covered already. I am an inveterate J frame fan, but the G43 makes so much sense, for reasons already noted. Add in the cross compatibility with duty 17/26 and it becomes a mental exercise trying to justify the J frame over the 43. I guess "grappling" still works, otherwise it's a bit of a hard sell against your obvious investment in 9mm/Glock.

JMO.

[L-2]

If this is a buy-only-one decision, then go with the G43.
For me, I find the J-frame conceals and carries better for me, usually in my front left pocket or ankle.
I mainly use the G43 for my work backup gun, usually on my body armor vest or ankle.
Once in a while, I'll be carrying the G43 and a J-frame, backing up a larger primary handgun.

[JodyH]

Walther PPS with a 6 round magazine.
It's juts a fraction larger than the 43 and the paddle magazine release is pretty much immune to accidental activation.
The trigger is very close to a Glock 19 and lighter than my 43 trigger.
I find the PPS to be much easier to shoot than the 43 as well, a lot less squirmy in the hand.
I use a BORAII Eagle (https://www.boraii.com/) pocket holster for mine when I wear Duluth Firehose pants (which is pretty much all the time).

[NorthernHeat]

Walther PPS with a 6 round magazine.
It's juts a fraction larger than the 43 and the paddle magazine release is pretty much immune to accidental activation.
The trigger is very close to a Glock 19 and lighter than my 43 trigger.
I find the PPS to be much easier to shoot than the 43 as well, a lot less squirmy in the hand.
I use a BORAII Eagle (https://www.boraii.com/) pocket holster for mine when I wear Duluth Firehose pants (which is pretty much all the time).

Hhhmmmm, PPS had not even crossed my mind.

I do like everything you talked about, plus of course being able to thumb the striker indicator would be nice when re-holstering.

Would it fit in the back pocket of a pair of Duluth pants with the pocket holster you linked Jody?

[JodyH]

Hhhmmmm, PPS had not even crossed my mind.

I do like everything you talked about, plus of course being able to thumb the striker indicator would be nice when re-holstering.

Would it fit in the back pocket of a pair of Duluth pants with the pocket holster you linked Jody?
Yes, with the 6 round magazine it fits and draws from the rear pocket of Duluth Firehose pants (which I'm wearing right now and just stuffed the combo in my rear pocket).
Placed side by side with a Glock 43, the only dimensional difference is the PPS is fractionally thicker and the butt is <1/4" longer than the 43 with flat baseplate.
The PPS also has a functional rail that a C5L or a TLR-3 will fit on (if that matters to you).
When I travel I often carry the PPS w/6 round magazine in my pocket and when I'm in the hotel room for the night I add on a TLR-3 light and insert a 8 round magazine.

[NorthernHeat]

Yes, with the 6 round magazine it fits and draws from the rear pocket of Duluth Firehose pants (which I'm wearing right now and just stuffed the combo in my rear pocket).
Placed side by side with a Glock 43, the only dimensional difference is the PPS is fractionally thicker and the butt is <1/4" longer than the 43 with flat baseplate.
The PPS also has a functional rail that a C5L or a TLR-3 will fit on (if that matters to you).
When I travel I often carry the PPS w/6 round magazine in my pocket and when I'm in the hotel room for the night I add on a TLR-3 light and insert a 8 round magazine.

Thank you for testing that out for me Jody, I appreciate it sir.

The combo of paddle mag release, being able to thumb the striker indicator, better trigger (than G43) and still being able to be carried and drawn from a back pocket is making me look very strongly at the PPS, when I had not even considered it previously.

[JodyH]

It's at least worth finding one to do a side by side comparison with the 43.

[warpedcamshaft]

I do like everything you talked about, plus of course being able to thumb the striker indicator would be nice when re-holstering.



Just to clarify, why would thumbing the striker indicator be nice?

[LockedBreech]

Just to clarify, why would thumbing the striker indicator be nice?

I carry a PPS. It's an extra layer of safety without slowing you down at all. The striker indicator comes back when the trigger is being pulled. If you feel it pushing on your thumb it can alert you that you've snagged your trigger before you have a negligent discharge. Hasn't happened yet in a year of carrying it but it's a nice feature.


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[warpedcamshaft]

I carry a PPS. It's an extra layer of safety without slowing you down at all. The striker indicator comes back when the trigger is being pulled. If you feel it pushing on your thumb it can alert you that you've snagged your trigger before you have a negligent discharge. Hasn't happened yet in a year of carrying it but it's a nice feature.


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I just wanted to make sure OP wasn't assuming that thumbed striker indicator = thumbing a DA/SA hammer while re-holstering. If the amount of upward force applied to the striker with a snagged trigger exceeded the downward force of a thumbed striker while re-holstering, bad things could happen. I've only shot a PPS once and don't remember much about it. Just checking OP's thought process.

[warpedcamshaft]

What I do remember is that the PPS was doing what the Shield/G43 did, but several years earlier. I remember thinking it was easier to shoot than I would have imagined. The Kel-Tec PF9 and Kahr PM9 were the other 2 options in my mind until the PPS showed up. (Poly-Framed 9mm single stacks) Pf9's are terrible. I've seen 3 break first hand (2 in my hands), and have not seen one that would hold A-zone at 25 yards.


Shield(2012)
G43(2015)
PPS(2007)

[CoGT3]

I use a BORAII Eagle (https://www.boraii.com/) pocket holster for mine when I wear Duluth Firehose pants (which is pretty much all the time).

Cool holster, order placed and hunting for 6 rd mags.

Just got my second one also. Went to sight in today, knocking out 1" dots at 7 yards was much easier than it should be.

[NorthernHeat]

Just to clarify, why would thumbing the striker indicator be nice?

Just an extra layer of safety that it adds to the gun I feel.

It is not a deal breaker either way, but I think it is nice to have.

I understand it will not completely stop the gun from firing like thumbing a hammer, but it is about as close as a striker fired gun can have in that aspect (without a gadget like device) I feel.

[warpedcamshaft]

Just an extra layer of safety that it adds to the gun I feel.

It is not a deal breaker either way, but I think it is nice to have.

I understand it will not completely stop the gun from firing like thumbing a hammer, but it is about as close as a striker fired gun can have in that aspect (without a gadget like device) I feel.

Ok... just checking... Do yo' thang...

[LockedBreech]

I just wanted to make sure OP wasn't assuming that thumbed striker indicator = thumbing a DA/SA hammer while re-holstering. If the amount of upward force applied to the striker with a snagged trigger exceeded the downward force of a thumbed striker while re-holstering, bad things could happen. I've only shot a PPS once and don't remember much about it. Just checking OP's thought process.

Sure. I'm near religious with trigger discipline/paranoia and I choose very simple, robust holsters partly to avoid snag concerns, but it's a nice little "bonus" feature.


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[SLG]

What I do remember is that the PPS was doing what the Shield/G43 did, but several years earlier. I remember thinking it was easier to shoot than I would have imagined. The Kel-Tec PF9 and Kahr PM9 were the other 2 options in my mind until the PPS showed up. (Poly-Framed 9mm single stacks) Pf9's are terrible. I've seen 3 break first hand (2 in my hands), and have not seen one that would hold A-zone at 25 yards.


Shield(2012)
G43(2015)
PPS(2007)

We only have one shield, so take that for what it's worth, but it easily holds 3-4" groups at 25 yards. Same with the one 43 I have tried. You may have gotten a bad one, or I may have a good one, who knows.

[warpedcamshaft]

We only have one shield, so take that for what it's worth, but it easily holds 3-4" groups at 25 yards. Same with the one 43 I have tried. You may have gotten a bad one, or I may have a good one, who knows.

Sorry, please re-read my post, I was talking exclusively about the PF9 in regards to precision at 25 yards.

"Pf9's are terrible. I've seen 3 break first hand (2 in my hands), and have not seen one that would hold A-zone at 25 yards."

[MGW]

The main reason I was looking at the 442/J Frame was because I will carry appendix off duty and have found good luck in carrying my backup off duty gun in my back left pocket ( in a pocket holster of course).


Why the back pocket? Doesn't seem like a great place to have it both for your safety and ease of access. Falling on it could be really bad.

[Cool Breeze]

Why the back pocket? Doesn't seem like a great place to have it both for your safety and ease of access. Falling on it could be really bad.
I also wonder this. How do you sit down? Seems like it would be uncomfortable.

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[NorthernHeat]

For me and how I am built, it is not uncomfortable at all.

I sit just like normal, nothing changes.

I like having a gun in an alternate location so that if I, for some reason, cannot access my appendix position I might be able to reach backward toward an alternate gun with my off hand.

I have carried LCR's and Kahr's like this in the past and the position works well FOR MY BUILD for a backup gun in plain clothes/off duty carry.

I also have the build of a football player/ weight lifter though, so I have plenty of padding on the backside that some people might not have.

YMMV

[Cool Breeze]

For me and how I am built, it is not uncomfortable at all.

I sit just like normal, nothing changes.

I like having a gun in an alternate location so that if I, for some reason, cannot access my appendix position I might be able to reach backward toward an alternate gun with my off hand.

I have carried LCR's and Kahr's like this in the past and the position works well FOR MY BUILD for a backup gun in plain clothes/off duty carry.

I also have the build of a football player/ weight lifter though, so I have plenty of padding on the backside that some people might not have.

YMMV
Haha. Fair enough. I echo everything JodyH said in the 6 post regarding size comparison (except both the holster and the Duluth pants that I have no experience with). The PPS shoots better for me but it is a little heavier than the 43. I suspect that won't be that big of an issue though for you. :)

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[HCM]

Some of this will depend on your hand size. I have XXL hands. I find my 43 squirmy. I'm planning on adding the rubber Talon grips per LSP 552's recommendation but so far, for me the j frame is superior, the current price cut on the PPS has me tempted though.

[Cool Breeze]

Some of this will depend on your hand size. I have XXL hands. I find my 43 squirmy. I'm planning on adding the rubber Talon grips per LSP 552's recommendation but so far, for me the j frame is superior, the current price cut on the PPS has me tempted though.

HCM, why do find the j frame superior? You shoot it better (less squirmy) and/or it carries better for you?

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[HCM]

HCM, why do find the j frame superior? You shoot it better (less squirmy) and/or it carries better for you?

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Yes, I can get a better grip on it, even with boot grips and shoot it as well with less effort despite running a 26 and 17 for work and off duty carry.

It takes far greater care and concentration for me to shoot the 43. It's simply a bit too small for my paws.

[JodyH]

PPS compared to the back pocket on Duluth Firehose Flex pants.
PPS and 43 compared to the back pockets on the same pants.
PPS inserted in the pocket.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151228/72a87d4c3b2ef195bedc696ed1d7c2e0.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151228/2db39acf2f4cf9355f7cba2498bf3bf4.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151228/bbc7a5c519d484eb07081f0765b9d043.jpg

[Beat Trash]

I carried a back pocket BUG at work for a few years. The gun used was a S&W 642 with the barrel facing out, and the grip facing the centerline of my body. It was actually more comfortable to sit on than I would have guessed.

The main concern about back pocket carry of a semi auto for me was the mag release button being inadvertently depressed. The Walther PPS was about a decade from being produced at that time. The paddle magazine release of the PPS is a huge benefit for unconventional carry methods in my opinion.

I bought a Glock 43 for my wife. She is a smaller person with appropriately sized hands. It fits her like a dream. My hands though are large with long fingers. Mechanically, the Glock 43 is a good pistol, but I find it a challenge to hold onto the thing. It's just too small for me.

My J-Frame 642 has been semi retired in place of a Shield. If my hands were a bit smaller, then I'd be using the Glock 43.

But then, I no longer carry my BUG in a pocket.

[WDW]

For me personally, in a back up role, I prefer a J Frame, specifically the M&P 340. My backup is always in a pocket and I don't feel comfortable with a striker fired gun in my pocket, holster and all. Also, I feel there is nothing out there, to me, that matches a J Frame in totality when it comes to concealability & reliability.

[NorthernHeat]

PPS compared to the back pocket on Duluth Firehose Flex pants.
PPS and 43 compared to the back pockets on the same pants.
PPS inserted in the pocket.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151228/72a87d4c3b2ef195bedc696ed1d7c2e0.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151228/2db39acf2f4cf9355f7cba2498bf3bf4.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151228/bbc7a5c519d484eb07081f0765b9d043.jpg

Thank you everybody so far for the info, and thanks especially to Jody for the pictures.

Those pictures answer alot of questions I had about gun size vs the actual pocket.

[JodyH]

With the BORAII holster the kydex wraps around and under the ends of the magazine paddle release on the PPS which makes it impossible for the release to move.
Zero chance for a magazine to accidently (or purposely) release while it's in the holster.

[orionz06]

We only have one shield, so take that for what it's worth, but it easily holds 3-4" groups at 25 yards. Same with the one 43 I have tried. You may have gotten a bad one, or I may have a good one, who knows.

Mine with ASYM will shoot 2" five shot groups at 25 yards. It's been my slump buster now and again to boost confidence. I'd be curious how yours did with decent ammo. And you only have one Shield? How does that work?






On the inadvertent mag releases... While my customer base isn't the end all be all I've had a good number of folks switch from a Kahr to a G43/Shield/PPS due to the mags popping out with no reports of the replacements doing the same.

[JodyH]

Kahr's can have very touchy mag releases.
It's a combination of release springs that weaken significantly over time and very minimal release to magazine contact exacerbated by inconsistent magazine body dimensions and mag well dimensions.
I sort through my Kahr mags and use the ones that have more body "bulge" as my carry mags, they don't drop free but they also don't accidently release.

[abu fitna]

Not much to add to the thread beyond what others have said, but a few personal observations

The J frame will generally print less and print in a rounder profile, less noticeable than the sharp lines of any pocket semiauto - including the Glock 43. However, a good pocket holster should break up that outline nicely, and generally leave only one sharp edge of the slide - easily mistaken for a cell phone or something else quite ordinary.

Depending on pocket config, the j frame may be easier to draw - especially in the hammerless configurations so many of us prefer.

The J frame is also far better for entangled fights where contact shots are a higher probability.

In a lighter fabric suit, an airweight j frame is still an easier choice for pocket carry.

Having said this I carry the Glock 43 as a backup more often than the J frame over the past 6 months. Easier to shoot accurately, faster to reload, identical manual of arms to the primary handgun I train with the most. It runs the caliber I burn through the most training stocks of, and therefore am more likely to have with me when I am loading out for a training session. (Doesn't mean I don't pack .38 Special in the range gear when I am planning to, but not having that extra consideration means I am more likely to train with the 43 simply based on almost always having 9mm in the range bag whenever I can fit in a session.)

It is the gun I choose now most often when I am not wearing a gun, so to speak. And to cite a consideration of second gun carry often raised by experts such as Mas Ayoob, it is also a far easier weapon to hand off to a responsible party in the event of a critical event requiring additional assistance.

The Glock 43 now is used in the role I previously used both the Walther PPS and the S&W Shield. It is just enough smaller that it takes an edge (and as much as I loved the PPS, the odd magazines were always an issue for me.)

Whether these lower probability scenarios, or other personal considerations, make something like the 43 the right choice for you or not is entirely up to you. I would not feel badly served pulling any of the others out of the safe.


Sights on the j frame are always a weakness, unless you have the pro or have fitted a proper tritium or other high visibility front sight. This is a mandatory item on all my weapons, but a lot of folks don't go to the trouble on the j frames that are not set up from the factory this way. It is easier (and equally mandatory in my view) to get rid of the sight shaped plastic plugs for the glock sights and put in something real.