Caliber Testing?

[bigslim]

I am fortunate to have a range close by that rents pistols and I have been taking full advantage of it while trying to figure out what pistol and caliber to purchase. I'm pretty sure I
will buy a glock but I have not decided between 40 s&w or 9mm. So I am looking for some drills that I could run to give me an idea of how well I can control the two calibers. I don't
have a shot timer so it will be seat of the pants but I really want to see if it is worth getting a G22 over a G17 or G19.

Mike

[Kyle Reese]

Some superb drills HERE (http://pistol-training.com/drills).

I would try the Dot Torture drill at 5 yards to help establish an accuracy baseline, and to see if you're applying the fundamentals correctly.

I'd suggest going 9mm over .40 in the Glock platform due to ammo cost alone.

[bigslim]

I have looked at all those great drills but wasn't sure which ones would really highlight the differences between 9mm and 40 s&w.

As far as ammo goes, I have been looking at Georgia Arms and 165 or 180 gr 40 s&w is only $5.00 more expensive than 124 gr 9mm per 500, so that cost is really negligible. If I can
control the 40 as well as I can the 9 I think I would rather carry the slightly larger round for SD.

Mike

[JDM]

Do you live in a state that restricts good hollow point ammunition? Are you likely to have to shoot through automobile materials?

If the answer to both of these questions is no, then there is not a logical argument for .40 over 9mm.

[Little Creek]

I agree, IMHO the nod goes to a 9mm for at least 4 reasons: lower ammo cost, less recoil, 9mm self defence ammo is much better than it used to be, a given pistol format will hold more 9mm rounds than 40S&W rounds.

[bigslim]

The answer is no to both but there is no advantage of the 40 over the 9? Not even the slightly larger projectile?

Mike

[JDM]

The answer is no to both but there is no advantage of the 40 over the 9? Not even the slightly larger projectile?

Mike

5 thousandths of an inch. That's the difference we are talking about.

If there is someone that feels a difference of 5 thousandths when shot, they are superbly unique.

That tiny benefit does not outweigh the sacrifices that come with it.

I believe that modern JHP's have mostly negated the difference size makes in service calibers. And so do many other people. Including people who have extensively studied this.

[Kyle Reese]

The answer is no to both but there is no advantage of the 40 over the 9? Not even the slightly larger projectile?

Mike

Mike,
With the advances in technology with regards to defensive ammo, the "performance gap" is closing with regard to 9mm vs .40.

Here's (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1624-New-9-mm-ammo-testing) a good thread showing some performance tests done with various types of 9mm JHP ammo.

Given my druthers, the Fed HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3) and Fed HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2) would be excellent choices for 9mm defensive ammo. :)

[JDM]

Mike, check this thread out:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

[JV_]

Mike, check this thread out:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

That data is also here: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?99-Self-Defense-and-Duty-Loads...ballistics-info-by-DocGKR

[JDM]

That data is also here: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?99-Self-Defense-and-Duty-Loads...ballistics-info-by-DocGKR

Internet>me.

[bigslim]

I agree, IMHO the nod goes to a 9mm for at least 4 reasons: lower ammo cost, less recoil, 9mm self defence ammo is much better than it used to be, a given pistol format will hold more 9mm rounds than 40S&W rounds.

I know these caliber discussions are never ending but from what I have found so far a G22 holds as much as a G19 and 40 s&w will cost me $5.00 more than 124 gr 9mm. Something
I have not considered is that I have carpel and cubital tunnel (wrist and elbows) in both arms and I need surgery on both wrists and right elbow. I'm not sure I could put accurate rounds down range one handed.

[bigslim]

Man y'all are quick, I guess I am making a much bigger deal out of this than I should be.

I guess the next question is weather to get a G17 or G19.

Thx for all the help

Mike

[Kyle Reese]

I know these caliber discussions are never ending but from what I have found so far a G22 holds as much as a G19 and 40 s&w will cost me $5.00 more than 124 gr 9mm. Something
I have not considered is that I have carpel and cubital tunnel (wrist and elbows) in both arms and I need surgery on both wrists and right elbow. I'm not sure I could put accurate rounds down range one handed.

I'd suggest that you go to the range, rent a Glock 17 and 22, shoot them and decide for yourself. I've owned both, and have long since sold off my Glock 22's. :)

[bigslim]

I'd suggest that you go to the range, rent a Glock 17 and 22, shoot them and decide for yourself. I've owned both, and have long since sold off my Glock 22's. :)

I have shoot both back to back and my groups we better with the G17. I guess it's hard to see the forest through the tree's sometimes.

Mike

[Kyle Reese]

I have shoot both back to back and my groups we better with the G17. I guess it's hard to see the forest through the tree's sometimes.

Mike

Very hard to go wrong with a 17.

Myself and another Staff member supervised some novice shooters yesterday on the range. They could select the Beretta 92F, P228, Glock 17/19 and the M&P 9 and 9C.

We supervised the Glock shooters, and our station was quite popular with the ladies, most of whom were in the 22-27 age bracket.

I could attribute the popularity of our station to my charm and good looks :D, but it turns out the 9mm Glock was the easiest platform for them to shoot.

[JDM]

Amongst serious shooters (the majority of this forum) you'll find few, if any that will pontificate about stopping power, bigger is better etc.

Find the gun you shoot best in the caliber you shoot best, and train.

[bigslim]

hahahahahahaha, I'm sure my wife won't truly appreciate the swarm of ladies around my 9...

I really like the M&P and was my first choice but the lack of a .22 conversion and mags seeming to be out of stock all the time have helped to make my mind up on getting a glock.

[bigslim]

Amongst serious shooters (the majority of this forum) you'll find few, if any that will pontificate about stopping power, bigger is better etc.

Find the gun you shoot best in the caliber you shoot best, and train.

CHURCH

I need to learn to not let my undiagnosed OCD and ADD take over my mind and fill it with useless arguments.

Mike

[Al T.]

fill it with useless arguments.


Balderdash. :)

Buying firearms is a fairly serious event, so seeking information is smart.

FWIW, I started with .45 ACP many years ago and now cheerfully recommend 9mm. Actually shooting critters with 9mm JHPs has convinced me that it works as well as a handgun cartridge will work. If, God forbid, I have to shoot someone, plan is to shoot till the threat ends, regardless of which caliber/bullet combination I have.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

hahahahahahaha, I'm sure my wife won't truly appreciate the swarm of ladies around my 9...

I really like the M&P and was my first choice but the lack of a .22 conversion and mags seeming to be out of stock all the time have helped to make my mind up on getting a glock.

My .22lr Glock Upper let me get some time with a belly dancer on the range...He boyfriend with the USP didn't have anything she wanted to use, so I swooped in and let her use my Glock.

My big, black...Glock...she was feeling it up...

;)

Glock Tease...She left with her boyfriend.

:(

[jslaker]

40 s&w will cost me $5.00 more than 124 gr 9mm.

This is how I thought when I chose .40 when I first started shooting a few years ago. It's something I came to regret and has ultimately caused me to move to 9mm as my primary platform.

Only $5.00 more is no big deal when you shoot a handful of times a year; if you start getting more serious, it becomes the difference between 3 boxes of ammo or 2 boxes in a range session for the same money. 33% more trigger time will benefit you far more than 11% larger diameter.

[bigslim]

Buying firearms is a fairly serious event, so seeking information is smart.


You couldn't be more correct and I have read many a thread and blog post about which caliber is "best". I surly don't want to start a caliber war but I do enjoying reading other
opinions on what people like and why.

[bigslim]

Mitchell's BIG BLACK GLOCK is bringing sexy back, thats what I'm talkin about pimpin

JSlaker - I see what you mean and the more rounds I can put down range the better. I'm thinking that I would shoot 1k per month between drills and IDPA and maybe Steel Challenge
and then supplement with .22.

I don't really know what a realistic monthly round count is but I am trying to see what my budget will allow.

[ToddG]

Years ago, I wrote this: Why the Nine? (http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/9/9mm-advoc.htm)

In the decade or so since, my opinion hasn't changed much. If anything, 9mm ammo has improved even more and grown closer in performance to the bigger calibers. The cost of ammo has risen to the point where serious high volume practice with other calibers has become prohibitive.

When someone like DocGKR talks about using 9mm Glocks as one of his preferred weapons, it's hard to take the "anything that begins with .4" crowd seriously.

[bigslim]

Controllability and quick follow up shots are whats gonna win the fight as it seams all but inevitable that a one shot stop is probably not going to happen.

I'm new to the forum and not familiar with Doc's work but sounds like I should be and with your endorsement (whipping brown from nose:) ) thats good enough for me.

[fuse]

There are two reasons to shoot 40.

You're a cop, and it's mandated

You shoot ipsc limited class.

One doesn't apply to you, and the other is just a game. Choose accordingly.