Thoughts on VP9 vs P30 for carry?

[s0nspark]

I have been carrying an HK VP9 for almost a year now and have been extremely happy with the gun - more so than with any other pistol I have owned. I have owned various Glocks, M&Ps, XDms, and CZs over the years and the VP9 is the first pistol I've had that has proven to be both reliable and "shootable" for me. Lately, though, I have been curious as to what "advantages" might be gleaned from switching to the P30 for carry.

The VP9 is my first HK and I am as content as I could imagine being... (very happy but always looking at other options with a critical eye, in other words.) I would need quantifiable benefits to a switch before buying into it. I'm... just not sure they exist, at present. I am suspecting that I really just want more HK goodness ;-)

FWIW, I would opt for LEM triggers if I went this route (I like the "one trigger pull" approach) and I prefer to carry strong side IWB with a WML so the "striker-fired gun + appendix = danger!" thing isn't germane. I could use my existing holsters and magazines with the P30 so that is a significant factor.

Any wisdom more knowledgeable folks can drop regarding a switch like this? Anyone think it would be definitely worth it?

[GJM]

I have been carrying an HK VP9 for almost a year now and have been extremely happy with the gun - more so than with any other pistol I have owned. I have owned various Glocks, M&Ps, XDms, and CZs over the years and the VP9 is the first pistol I've had that has proven to be both reliable and "shootable" for me. Lately, though, I have been curious as to what "advantages" might be gleaned from switching to the P30 for carry.

The VP9 is my first HK and I am as content as I could imagine being... (very happy but always looking at other options with a critical eye, in other words.) I would need quantifiable benefits to a switch before buying into it. I'm... just not sure they exist, at present. I am suspecting that I really just want more HK goodness ;-)

FWIW, I would opt for LEM triggers if I went this route (I like the "one trigger pull" approach) and I prefer to carry strong side IWB with a WML so the "striker-fired gun + appendix = danger!" thing isn't germane. I could use my existing holsters and magazines with the P30 so that is a significant factor.

Any wisdom more knowledgeable folks can drop regarding a switch like this? Anyone think it would be definitely worth it?

My response can be summed up by hammer, hammer, hammer. If you think IWB behind the hip is more forgiving than AIWB, you ought to look for Mr_White's video with the SIRT showing the opposite.

[GardoneVT]

When it comes to bullet wounds, an ounce of prevention is worth thousands of dollars of cure.

[s0nspark]

My response can be summed up by hammer, hammer, hammer. If you think IWB behind the hip is more forgiving than AIWB, you ought to look for Mr_White's video with the SIRT showing the opposite.

That has been one of the nagging thoughts in the back of my head... :)

[s0nspark]

Any thoughts as to differences in triggers? Should I consider a trigger job as part and parcel of a switch? (The few P30s I've shot did seem to lack some refinement in the trigger department but they were TDA guns.)

I am really happy with the VP9 trigger. It may not be "The Best" or whatever but it really works well for me. Anything special I should keep in mind with the LEM trigger?

[Luke]

I've got a couple thousand rounds down range with a VP9, 400 with a P30 V3, and like 11 with a P30sk LEM.

The trigger is way different. It's not really like the VP9 at all. Not a bad thing not a good thing, but they are two different animals. The P30 was my first hammer fired gun (minus 1911, and that one CZ way before I was serious and new anything). Having a hammer to ride while holstering is the best feeling ever, I didn't think it would matter but once I owned one and started doing it it was an awesome feeling and kinda reminded me just how sketchy (to me, ymmv) a striker gun was shoving it into my pants.

I vote P30!

[johncorey]

I never had the instant love festival with the VP9 that a lot of other folks across the web seemed to have had (I do not own a VP9). I did and do love the triggers on my P30s. Currently they are LEM with the medium TRS, soon to be switched to 4.1 LEM. To me, the control I am able to exert on my P30s and precision gained from it, is second to none. Even more so than my 1911. It's hard to describe any better than that, but for a hammer system, the P30s are my clear favorite (9mm experience only).

[breakingtime91]

I like the lem but can't work the trigger faster then .23 in splits during D5s. Non issue for me. I'm using the TLG variant in the p2000 series guns

[johncorey]

Compared to my G34s, the LEM is slower for me as well in the splits business. But the only way in which it becomes noticeable is on the timer, so yeah.

[cornstalker]

My response can be summed up by hammer, hammer, hammer. If you think IWB behind the hip is more forgiving than AIWB, you ought to look for Mr_White's video with the SIRT showing the opposite.

I am having difficulty finding this video. Any tips on how I could dig it up?

[breakingtime91]

Compared to my G34s, the LEM is slower for me as well in the splits business. But the only way in which it becomes noticeable is on the timer, so yeah.

Exactly. I had an hour long conversation with someone just about that. I was shooting just as fast as him but he would sometimes get faster split. Does a .20 split really make that big of a difference compared to a .24? I don't think so. I was shooting just as fast because my effeciancy with a conealed draw..

[johncorey]

Exactly. I had an hour long conversation with someone just about that. I was shooting just as fast as him but he would sometimes get faster split. Does a .20 split really make that big of a difference compared to a .24? I don't think so. I was shooting just as fast because my effeciancy with a conealed draw..


MSW did a pretty good write up on the fetish of a sub .25 split. A 1/4 second split equates to 4 rounds per second at presentation (trust me, I did the math!), so that should be more than a plenty for any serious shooter. Trim that down to .20 and you've just added another round. All that matters not if a shooters hits<splits.

I do find myself chasing my mythical .12 I had once in my life every now and again, but that seems lightyears away now. I do not view the LEM to have an organic handicap in this aspect, it's simply comparatively slower than a striker, which makes sense because science.

[breakingtime91]

MSW did a pretty good write up on the fetish of a sub .25 split. A 1/4 second split equates to 4 rounds per second at presentation (trust me, I did the math!), so that should be more than a plenty for any serious shooter. Trim that down to .20 and you've just added another round. All that matters not if a shooters hits<splits.

I do find myself chasing my mythical .12 I had once in my life every now and again, but that seems lightyears away now. I do not view the LEM to have an organic handicap in this aspect, it's simply comparatively slower than a striker, which makes sense because science.

Yup and when you consider the benifets to system like the lem, seems like an easy trade off

[okie john]

I have been carrying an HK VP9 for almost a year now and have been extremely happy with the gun - more so than with any other pistol I have owned. I have owned various Glocks, M&Ps, XDms, and CZs over the years and the VP9 is the first pistol I've had that has proven to be both reliable and "shootable" for me. Lately, though, I have been curious as to what "advantages" might be gleaned from switching to the P30 for carry.

The VP9 is my first HK and I am as content as I could imagine being... (very happy but always looking at other options with a critical eye, in other words.) I would need quantifiable benefits to a switch before buying into it. I'm... just not sure they exist, at present. I am suspecting that I really just want more HK goodness ;-)

FWIW, I would opt for LEM triggers if I went this route (I like the "one trigger pull" approach) and I prefer to carry strong side IWB with a WML so the "striker-fired gun + appendix = danger!" thing isn't germane. I could use my existing holsters and magazines with the P30 so that is a significant factor.

Any wisdom more knowledgeable folks can drop regarding a switch like this? Anyone think it would be definitely worth it?

I only have a couple of thousand rounds through a P30, and fewer than that on a VP9. In my experience, the two are so similar that while there may be quantifiable benefits in switching (such as the hammer and safety) they will likely be either theoretical or small enough to be almost irrelevant. A really good trigger job might put one slightly ahead of the other, but could also render it too light for street use.

But you'll only know if you try, and that's reason enough to go for it.


Okie John

[Mr_White]

FWIW, I would opt for LEM triggers if I went this route (I like the "one trigger pull" approach) and I prefer to carry strong side IWB with a WML so the "striker-fired gun + appendix = danger!" thing isn't germane.

IMHO it's impossible to say which is safer without the considering the specifics of holster, clothing, body, and behavior. But take a look at the video and see how it worked out for me. ;)


I am having difficulty finding this video. Any tips on how I could dig it up?

Right here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4fXzLBe81E

[Mr_White]

Also, I forgot to say that while I personally like sticking with one gun, it is also clear that different guns help you notice different aspects of shooting and gunhandling. And I really really think a person will benefit in the long run from at some point learning to shoot a challenging trigger well. I think it could have a lot of value from that standpoint.

[RJ]

Gosh dang it to heck, OP. There I am, shopping for an IWB holster for the VP9, and you start this thread. Argh! :cool:

Just kidding, of course.

Truth to tell, I have the same odd 'gee, wouldn't you maybe rather have a compact TDA gun in your pants' feeling' sometimes. Good thread, interested to see where you end up.

[EVP]

Vp9 gadget.........:cool:

[David S.]

Soon.

[YVK]

Exactly. I had an hour long conversation with someone just about that. I was shooting just as fast as him but he would sometimes get faster split. Does a .20 split really make that big of a difference compared to a .24? I don't think so. I was shooting just as fast because my effeciancy with a conealed draw..

Problem with LEM is that .23 - .24 splits usually happen after a warm up and in one dimensional drills. I get under .20 that way, rarely but repeatedly.

Change that to a cold run with a multifaceted task and I am happy if I am under .30. At times I am in low - mid .30s. LEM is unforgiving sonofabitch that way; I didn't have that much variability with strikers.
That said, I won't carry without hammer or Gadget so no Peepee9 for me.

I am also curious about one specific physical dimension of VP9 in regards to cc. This gun has the longest rear part of a slide that I've seen; I mean from the ejection port to slide backplate. It is longer than on P30, P2000 or even Glock. I found that dimension to be very important for concealment, the shorter the better. I know that some people do cc the VP9 and I wonder if that has been a problem.

[breakingtime91]

Problem with LEM is that .23 - .24 splits usually happen after a warm up and in one dimensional drills. I get under .20 that way, rarely but repeatedly.

Change that to a cold run with a multifaceted task and I am happy if I am under .30. At times I am in low - mid .30s. LEM is unforgiving sonofabitch that way; I didn't have that much variability with strikers.
That said, I won't carry without hammer or Gadget so no Peepee9 for me.

I am also curious about one specific physical dimension of VP9 in regards to cc. This gun has the longest rear part of a slide that I've seen; I mean from the ejection port to slide backplate. It is longer than on P30, P2000 or even Glock. I found that dimension to be very important for concealment, the shorter the better. I know that some people do cc the VP9 and I wonder if that has been a problem.

True. Not sure how much split time matters in a fight.. faster is better but when does that become a factor in the outcome?

[CCT125US]

I have not shot a VP9, so I will refrain from commenting on it. I did however spend about 4 years and 80,000 rounds with the P30 V3. As I have said before, I would not trade that time for anything else.

[YVK]

True. Not sure how much split time matters in a fight.. faster is better but when does that become a factor in the outcome?

Don't know. If I understood DB's past writings on this forum correctly, .50 splits are just fine in a fight. i myself know nothing about fights.

[eyemahm]

Problem with LEM is that .23 - .24 splits usually happen after a warm up and in one dimensional drills. I get under .20 that way, rarely but repeatedly.

Change that to a cold run with a multifaceted task and I am happy if I am under .30. At times I am in low - mid .30s. LEM is unforgiving sonofabitch that way; I didn't have that much variability with strikers.

Great observation.

As nyeti likes to put it, the VP9 trigger is better for pure shooting tasks. Administratively, etc, the P30 has the edge.

From a parts and construction point of view, I also prefer the P30. Subjectively, it feels like it's made less cheaply and more durably.

Having taken both apart on several occasions, the first time I took down the VP9, I wasn't particularly pleased to find the striker control unit, which includes the extractor, anchored to the frame by one roll pin passed through a slim plastic sleeve. The locking block looks like a folded, not milled, piece of steel, and is also removable. And, don't get people started on that braided coil spring. Only the last one seems like it's been an issue for anyone, but one can see a number of places where HK tried to trim costs on this model (grip panels, cough).

The P30 is simpler and easier to take apart, and doesn't feel cheap in any way. The extractor, locking block and frame rails are molded into the lower, and almost everything else is big, beefy, and steel. When you consider its lineage, it's a tried and true design descended from the brick shit house mk23 and is literally the grandchild of a tank (the USP). The design, functioning, and therefore reliability is basically the same as the USP (I think there's even some parts compatibility), but a little simpler, alot more refined and easier to shoot fast.

If I had to choose one to go to [shitty hot place] and back, and deal with being dropped, struck on foreheads, and beat up in all manner of ways, no question, it'd be the P30.

[breakingtime91]

Don't know. If I understood DB's past writings on this forum correctly, .50 splits are just fine in a fight. i myself know nothing about fights.

I think I remember that also YVK. I just remember watching secondscount shoot the lem and became really interested in it :). I think it all boils down to what priorities you have. I hate shooting slower/less accurate like anyone else but sometimes it is what it is.

[ADKilla]

I've owned a P30 TGS LEM, a VP9, a USPc LEM, a USP .45 LEM, and a P2Ksk in LEM. I sold all of them but the VP9 and the USPc (and I'm about to sell the USPc). Why? Shoot-ability; which for me ultimately translates into confidence in the weapon. After several thousands of rounds through multiple HK platforms I was never able to master the LEM trigger. YMMV.

I carry my VP9 AIWB. Any shooter can induce a ND if they're careless. As long as you look at your holster before putting the pistol in, you greatly minimize the chances of a ND.

Does the extra 0.5 second a LEM may add to your split times matter? Probably not. However before going all in I'd recommend test driving before buying rather than being solely influenced by anyone on this or any other forum. After you do, you'll know whether or not LEM is right for you.

[Default.mp3]

If you want a consistent trigger pull, you could also entertain a P30S and run it cocked and locked.

[EVP]

I am also curious about one specific physical dimension of VP9 in regards to cc. This gun has the longest rear part of a slide that I've seen; I mean from the ejection port to slide backplate. It is longer than on P30, P2000 or even Glock. I found that dimension to be very important for concealment, the shorter the better. I know that some people do cc the VP9 and I wonder if that has been a problem.

I have carried the vp9 for a few months. I can't compare it directly to a p30 but for me it prints a little less then a g19 that had HD sights. For me the square slide and magazine on glocks is what you are able to see print. On a vp9 the shape and radiused corners don't print as much even with a slightly longer grip. I would assume this would be the case with a p30 as well.

[Mr_White]

I am also curious about one specific physical dimension of VP9 in regards to cc. This gun has the longest rear part...

It's almost like you are saying the VP9 has a big ass. With all the HK white knights around here you are lucky no one is asking you to step outside and settle things.

[JAD]

While a hammer is nice for safe reholstering, the really compelling argument that made me go out and buy a P30 LEM was this one:
http://pistol-training.com/archives/8549

I found the P30 to indeed have an excellent 'decision-making' trigger. I am currently thinking that I get /nearly/ the same benefit through safety manipulation (whether that's a squeeze cocker or a thumb safety) with significantly better hits, but I'm not selling the P30.

[babypanther]

I used to carry a P2000 with an LEM for work and off-duty. I grew to appreciate being able to hold my thumb down on the hammer when re holstering, so I could feel if something wasn't right and prevent an AD/ND. I grew to really like the P2000 as an CCW, and appendix with that gun and trigger system makes a lot of sense to me. I switched to a Glock/M&P agency, so I have been really interested in a G19/23 with The Gadget to take the place of the P2k as a CCW.

[okie john]

Don't know. If I understood DB's past writings on this forum correctly, .50 splits are just fine in a fight. i myself know nothing about fights.

I think you're talking about this


One day, we may possibly stumble over the truth about confronting, controlling and "ballistically processing" offenders in the streets and the fact that shot splits aren't even in the top five of factors that determine success in those actions. The very best SWAT team in the country works around a split time of 0.5 seconds for controlled pairs and has advanced that anything much faster that that is either a miss and/or a poorly assessed shot.

Please for God sakes, don't launch off on a rant/tangent, but there is a metric shit load of difference between shooting a match and processing a deadly threat so that the deadly force response is only deadly to the guy getting shot and NOT others on the scene. Rule 4 is completely handled on a range or at a match (with a few obvious tragic exceptions) and is therefore not on most shooters' minds. In the street, it is completely monstrous in its importance. That LEM trigger is great for handling those real world problems.

from page 6 of the P2000 LEM thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16517-Hk-p2000-lem/page6)


Okie John

[YVK]

^^^Yep, that's it. When Wayne says something, I listen.

Darryl, not so much...




^ that's a joke, btw.




It's almost like you are saying the VP9 has a big ass. With all the HK white knights around here you are lucky no one is asking you to step outside and settle things.

I did that to Glock shooters and they kicked my ass around so I wouldn't do it to a Glock shooter. I think I can take out a PeePee9 shooter though, as long as Talionis and Dr. No don't see this thread.

[JonInWA]

I am currently running a VP40, and have my most significant platform experience on and with Glocks. The VP trigger is significantly lighter (and with a pretty constant pull-to-break characteristic) than any of my Glock set-ups, which are either standard connector/coil spring, dot connector/coil spring, or minus connector/NY1 spring. I'll be shooting the VP40 in my first IDPA match with it this weekend; it'll be interesting. As Nyeti stated (great resurrected thread, by the way), I think it's triggerpull is the easiest and most "shootable;" therein may lie concurrently its blessing and its curse...

I think it might be very interesting to try concurrently running a LEM HK (and for ideal comparative purposes, the light LEM variant) with a VP HK. One part of me thinks that the VP has somewhat obsoleted the LEM (both due to pull characteristic and platform price differential in favor of the VP), another par of me can see the benefit of the heavier and longer LEM pull.

Hmmm-perhaps a VP with a safety lever option could be a desirable middle-ground type of solution? Just ruminating...

Best, Jon

[farscott]

I learned to like the P30 LEM trigger once I started to treat the trigger like a DA revolver trigger. It is a much longer (feels really long) and smoother trigger than the Glock striker (I have not tried a VP9 so cannot comment), but I find the LEM trigger more conducive (for me) to shoot accurately than a factory standard 5.5# Glock trigger.

[s0nspark]

Gosh dang it to heck, OP. There I am, shopping for an IWB holster for the VP9, and you start this thread. Argh! :cool:

Just kidding, of course.

Truth to tell, I have the same odd 'gee, wouldn't you maybe rather have a compact TDA gun in your pants' feeling' sometimes. Good thread, interested to see where you end up.

hehe, sorry :)

[s0nspark]

I've owned a P30 TGS LEM, a VP9, a USPc LEM, a USP .45 LEM, and a P2Ksk in LEM. I sold all of them but the VP9 and the USPc (and I'm about to sell the USPc). Why? Shoot-ability; which for me ultimately translates into confidence in the weapon. After several thousands of rounds through multiple HK platforms I was never able to master the LEM trigger. YMMV.

I carry my VP9 AIWB. Any shooter can induce a ND if they're careless. As long as you look at your holster before putting the pistol in, you greatly minimize the chances of a ND.

Does the extra 0.5 second a LEM may add to your split times matter? Probably not. However before going all in I'd recommend test driving before buying rather than being solely influenced by anyone on this or any other forum. After you do, you'll know whether or not LEM is right for you.

I will admit off the top that I am challenged as a shooter - as much as I would like to say I could pick up any gun and get hits, the reality is that I just do not do that :) The VP9 is the first pistol I have owned that enabled me to get the hits I was after right out of the box - this after owning some seriously good custom CZs. I cannot imagine switching to a gun that lacks the ergonomics of the VP or P series HKs at this point.

I will definitely try and lay hands on a LEM P30 before moving forward with comparisons, though. The TDA P30s I shot were, to be honest, a letdown... but then again they had stock triggers and were rental guns on top of that so who knows how that would compare to a tuned LEM.

[s0nspark]

IMHO it's impossible to say which is safer without the considering the specifics of holster, clothing, body, and behavior.

I only mentioned carry method because I know many here would not feel comfortable carrying AIWB with an SFA pistol. (Many "not here" seem to have NO concerns about jamming a stock Glock blindly into an AIWB holster which is... concerning IMO.)

Anyway, I did carry AIWB with various Glocks for a long time and had no issues or injuries to show for it, but I drew and holstered like my life depended on getting it right ;-) I firmly believe that disciplined gun handling is what makes carrying a gun safe - things can always happen, I suppose, but with the right commitment to the right processes, damage from those kinds of edge events should be mitigated.

[s0nspark]

In my experience, the two are so similar that while there may be quantifiable benefits in switching (such as the hammer and safety) they will likely be either theoretical or small enough to be almost irrelevant.

That is what I suspect.

The benefits of a hammer for carry (LOL) are obvious to me but are in the "nice to have" category. I am not sure I would be anywhere near as as effective while learning the P30 LEM as I am with the VP9. This would have to be a side project I worked on in hopes that someday it would pay off to where I would feel comfortable switching to the P30 for carry. Then there is the expense... $1k for the gun and sights isn't terrible, I guess, but I do have other priorities... I do not have a viable self defense rifle yet, for example. It almost seems too hard to justify trying this... even though I really am curious and want to.

Maybe an unexpected Chrismas bonus will change my perspective on the financial side of that, though *fingers crossed*

[s0nspark]

If you want a consistent trigger pull, you could also entertain a P30S and run it cocked and locked.

Ok, I am going to admit my bias now... My time with custom CZs led me to conclude that I really do not care for single action triggers. All of the ones I've shot were just way too light for my tastes. A 5 pound trigger is about as low as I feel comfortable going on any gun, especially a defensive one - maybe I have Gorilla fingers or something but I just found it too easy to fire unintentionally with light, short reset triggers. That is actually what steered me away from the PPQ when I tried it.

[Luke]

Ok, I am going to admit my bias now... My time with custom CZs led me to conclude that I really do not care for single action triggers. All of the ones I've shot were just way too light for my tastes. A 5 pound trigger is about as low as I feel comfortable going on any gun, especially a defensive one - maybe I have Gorilla fingers or something but I just found it too easy to fire unintentionally with light, short reset triggers. That is actually what steered me away from the PPQ when I tried it.

I'm an HK fan boi so you or the others can't get mad.. But a factory HK SA is like 7 pounds lol so you don't have to worry, it will be nothing like a tuned CZ. My SA in my P30V3 has quite a bit of take up but a very nice smooth break (12lbs hammer spring and light FPBS)

[BobLoblaw]

This may or may not matter to the OP, but SHO/WHO shooting is infinitely easier with the VP9 vs the P30 LEM. I spent a lot of time with the P30 LEM and still love it but I question my ability to accurately shoot SHO/WHO unlike most other guns. Hardware can inspire confidence so I choose carry VP9 AIWB. I like to think I live dangerously ;).

[GJM]

There is no free lunch -- triggers that are easier to shoot other things with are also easier to shoot yourself with.

A DA/SA sort of bridges the gap with two "costs," a heavier first trigger press and the requirement to put the pistol back in DA mode before putting it in your holster. The LEM is a hi-cap DA only revolver with all the plusses and minuses of that system. The striker is like a crappy SA trigger without the DA mode or thumb safety. Pick your poison and carry on.

[Tom Duffy]

Haven't shot a VP9, but shot a number of Glocks and shoot my P30L light LEM extensively. As I'm noticing that my weak hand shooting disproportionately bad compared to anything else I do, I'm concentrating on that. I find that weak hand, I shoot the HK much worse than Glocks, 1911s, or revolvers. I don't know if anyone else has this particular issue, but it might be something to try with the rental gun and see if it's an issue for you.

[GJM]

Haven't shot a VP9, but shot a number of Glocks and shoot my P30L light LEM extensively. As I'm noticing that my weak hand shooting disproportionately bad compared to anything else I do, I'm concentrating on that. I find that weak hand, I shoot the HK much worse than Glocks, 1911s, or revolvers. I don't know if anyone else has this particular issue, but it might be something to try with the rental gun and see if it's an issue for you.

Yes, the LEM is especially difficult to shoot one hand. A zillion rounds through a DA revolver helps but doesn't resolve the issue.

[SecondsCount]

Yes, the LEM is especially difficult to shoot one hand. A zillion rounds through a DA revolver helps but doesn't resolve the issue.

The LEM is not the issue here but more of the trigger pull weight.

It takes practice with any gun to get good at shooting weak hand.

[RJ]

The LEM is not the issue here but more of the trigger pull weight.

It takes practice with any gun to get good at shooting weak hand.

Yeah...maybe...maybe...if they only had a 'light' version of the LEM? :cool:

*ducks and runs*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CCT125US]

Yes, the LEM is especially difficult to shoot one hand. A zillion rounds through a DA revolver helps but doesn't resolve the issue.

I don't agree. What makes it more difficult in your opinion? Is it mechanical or mental?

[GJM]

I don't agree. What makes it more difficult in your opinion? Is it mechanical or mental?

Mechanical -- long travel and a non linear press. The Rogers School test is a difficult shooting challenge with fifty percent one hand, and the results don't lie.

[CCT125US]

Mechanical -- long travel and a non linear press. The Rogers School test is a difficult shooting challenge with fifty percent one hand, and the results don't lie.

Can you further explain what you mean by non linear? For my terminology, a 1911 would be linear, where as Glocks, M&P, HK, Sig, would all pivot. To me the latter are all the same. I completely understand personal preference, but as long as the shooter is able to finish flat, the length and linear vs. pivot shouldn't mechanically matter.

[s0nspark]

This may or may not matter to the OP, but SHO/WHO shooting is infinitely easier with the VP9 vs the P30 LEM. I spent a lot of time with the P30 LEM and still love it but I question my ability to accurately shoot SHO/WHO unlike most other guns. Hardware can inspire confidence so I choose carry VP9 AIWB. I like to think I live dangerously ;).

Oh yes. This does matter to me!

The VP9 has worked better for me across the board. Spoilage. :)

[GJM]

Can you further explain what you mean by non linear? For my terminology, a 1911 would be linear, where as Glocks, M&P, HK, Sig, would all pivot. To me the latter are all the same. I completely understand personal preference, but as long as the shooter is able to finish flat, the length and linear vs. pivot shouldn't mechanically matter.

The LEM combines long travel with a light take up, followed by a wall.

Long travel often promotes sympathetic movement of the other fingers which is undesirable generally, and especially with just one hand. The light take up followed by the wall is opposite a DA trigger in semi auto or revolver.

[UNK]

I am not following your experiences very well. Which custom CZ did you have? I don't know much about CZ's but I thought all the traditional CZ triggers were hinged triggers which are more like a two stage trigger..or like the LEM.

But you mention you didn't like single stage triggers. A single stage trigger is more like the trigger on a 1911..or the VP9.

Understand that for a lot of the posters here being expert on various platforms is a "hobby" or even part of their profession. They have the time and money to spend on guns, ammo, classes, travel to classes and accommodations.
I personally would stay with what works...for you now that is the VP9. Become an expert with it then later you can decide if you want to try different trigger types.

YMMV


And if the word "Hobby" offends anyone it was not intended to.



Ok, I am going to admit my bias now... My time with custom CZs led me to conclude that I really do not care for single action triggers. All of the ones I've shot were just way too light for my tastes. A 5 pound trigger is about as low as I feel comfortable going on any gun, especially a defensive one - maybe I have Gorilla fingers or something but I just found it too easy to fire unintentionally with light, short reset triggers. That is actually what steered me away from the PPQ when I tried it.......The benefits of a hammer for carry (LOL) are obvious to me but are in the "nice to have" category. I am not sure I would be anywhere near as as effective while learning the P30 LEM as I am with the VP9. This would have to be a side project I worked on in hopes that someday it would pay off to where I would feel comfortable switching to the P30 for carry. Then there is the expense... $1k for the gun and sights isn't terrible, I guess, but I do have other priorities... I do not have a viable self defense rifle yet, for example. It almost seems too hard to justify trying this... even though I really am curious and want to.

Maybe an unexpected Chrismas bonus will change my perspective on the financial side of that, though *fingers crossed

[s0nspark]

I am not following your experiences very well. Which custom CZ did you have? I don't know much about CZ's but I thought all the traditional CZ triggers were hinged triggers which are more like a two stage trigger..or like the LEM.

But you mention you didn't like single stage triggers. A single stage trigger is more like the trigger on a 1911..or the VP9.


Not single stage, single action. (A distinction without a difference?)

The custom CZs I had (75B, SP-01, PCR) were modified by Cajun Gun Works... I had stock triggers tweaked for carry with aftermarket parts and, from my experience, they were excellent carry triggers for a TDA gun ... but just not what I was after. As I said, the whole experience made me realize I was not after a TDA gun ;)

Maybe I'm missing the point but they seemed to be traditional TDA triggers with a heavy DA and a very light SA - both of which I took issue with, personally :)



Understand that for a lot of the posters here being expert on various platforms is a "hobby" or even part of their profession. They have the time and money to spend on guns, ammo, classes, travel to classes and accommodations.
I personally would stay with what works...for you now that is the VP9. Become an expert with it then later you can decide if you want to try different trigger types.

LOL I have to smile :) Well said. :)

Yes, this boils down to me and what works for me. Thanks for acknowledging that. I don't mean that facetiously... Many online gloss over that very salient point!!

It is a tall order to top my current experience with the VP9. I'm not certain it is realistically possible or worth the hassle, at present. Time will tell, I suppose.

Funds permitting, we may see ;-)


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[UNK]

Looking forward to the range report and impressions!


Not single stage, single action. (A distinction without a difference?)

The custom CZs I had (75B, SP-01, PCR) were modified by Cajun Gun Works... I had stock triggers tweaked for carry with aftermarket parts and, from my experience, they were excellent carry triggers for a TDA gun ... but just not what I was after. As I said, the whole experience made me realize I was not after a TDA gun ;)

Maybe I'm missing the point but they seemed to be traditional TDA triggers with a heavy DA and a very light SA - both of which I took issue with, personally :)



LOL I have to smile :) Well said. :)

Yes, this boils down to me and what works for me. Thanks for acknowledging that. I don't mean that facetiously... Many online gloss over that very salient point!!

It is a tall order to top my current experience with the VP9. I'm not certain it is realistically possible or worth the hassle, at present. Time will tell, I suppose.

Funds permitting, we may see ;-)


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d(-.-)b