P320 consensus

[TSH]

Is there an informed consensus developing regarding this model? I would like to purchase a full size for duty and compact for off-duty, but I'm not seeing a lot of P320 discussion on the forum (unless I have just missed it). The model is certainly not taking off the way I thought it would.

Perhaps it is just being eclipsed by the VP9.

Any thoughts?

[JHC]

There are a couple long threads here on it. I would judge the consensus is just like the VP9, it's a swell SFA pistol one can do very good work with.

[RJ]

Is there an informed consensus developing regarding this model? I would like to purchase a full size for duty and compact for off-duty, but I'm not seeing a lot of P320 discussion on the forum (unless I have just missed it). The model is certainly not taking off the way I thought it would.

Perhaps it is just being eclipsed by the VP9.

Any thoughts?

I think most of the discussion seemed to be in this thread:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12730-Sig-P320-range-report

I liked the P320C, but flipped a coin at the LGS and bought a VP9. It was very close.

[L-2]

There's a forum/sub-forum very dedicated to the P320 model(s), here (http://sigtalk.com/p250-p320-modular-pistols/).

The posts seem to address "fan-boy-gushes"; individual likes/dislikes; small problems; and minor parts changes.

For my money and peace-of-mind, I've mainly stayed with Glock and SIG, which consist of proven, older models. The SIGs I carry are P226R and P229R, as I didn't wish to dive into a brand-new platform not knowing about all the small reliability issues which come up. At the time, I didn't even have a conveniently located dealer where I could feel the differences between the grip-frame sizes.

I'm still getting used to Glock's Gen4 idiosyncrasies.:)

[GJM]

Standby and check back in June 2016.

[JBP55]

I Had a P320, a PPQ9 and several VP9's as well as 9mm Glocks. I still have 9mm Glocks , VP9's and a VP40.

[Warren Wilson]

I reviewed a full size. 40 and own a 9mm compact. All of the news is good so far. Several of us shot a bunch of different rounds through the .40 without any problem except for two of us with longer thumbs kept the slide from locking back reliably. My daughter just did a two-day, 1000 rounds school with the 9mm and all went well.

The Oklahoma HP did some (pretty) good testing on the pistol and ended up adopting it. I have high hopes.

[Tamara]

I've been very favorably impressed with my P320 (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2015/04/saturday-range-trip-part-i.html). Its biggest downside from my point of view is that it doesn't have the aftermarket support of the Glock/M&P duo.

[UNK]

That's a bit of a wait. What are we waiting on?

Standby and check back in June 2016.

[stingray]

Mine is extremely accurate and has been 100% reliable. I only have 1000 rounds through it though.

[JHC]

That's a bit of a wait. What are we waiting on?

He must be alluding to MHS.

But you never know. He can be arbitrary.

[TSH]

Thanks all. I appreciate the replies.

[GJM]

That's a bit of a wait. What are we waiting on?

Foxtrot Bravo India


He must be alluding to MHS.

But you never know. He can be arbitrary.

Think you meant ornery.

[HCM]

The P320 has recently won large state LE contracts with the OK Highway Patrol and the HI DPS. It hasn't been officially announced but it will be the new weapon for the TX DPS as well. U.S. ICE, The FBI and the U.S. Military (MHS) are all in the process of testing new striker fired handguns for service use. Results from these three trials should be released sometime in 2016.

I have an early production 320C 9mm with about 800 rounds through it. It's been 100% with duty ammo. I had two instances of failure to fire with Tula steel and Remington UMC 115 grain FMJ. I believe both FTF were due to the ammo preventing the gun from going fully into battery.

I like the P320 and shoot it well. I'm just waiting to see what platform my employer winds up adopting before jumping into anything other than the Glock.

[PPGMD]

I've been very favorably impressed with my P320 (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2015/04/saturday-range-trip-part-i.html). Its biggest downside from my point of view is that it doesn't have the aftermarket support of the Glock/M&P duo.

But it is getting there. Out of all the recent releases in the past few years, it has certainly gotten support much faster than other pistols I've seen. Even Safariland is supporting it.

[Johnny Walker]

See if your LGS has one in stock so you can try the 320 yourself. If your local range "rents" guns, see if they have one to rent... take it for a test drive. I own a couple P320's...one in 9mm and one in 45acp and LOVE EM. I believe in the Striker Fired world, the P320, VP9 and PPQ have triggers that are very close... and all excellent out of the box. No need to do any "trigger" work on any of them. So it would boil down to personal preference. As far as after market, there are plenty of sight options, holster options etc to keep you going for the P320.
Happy Hunting!

[John Hearne]

But it is getting there. Out of all the recent releases in the past few years, it has certainly gotten support much faster than other pistols I've seen. Even Safariland is supporting it.

I don't mean to be glib but I suspect that the support is indicative of how well the product fills the niche of LE duty weapon. Sig was really, really smart with the design (so smart that I can't believe Sig did it). Sig will win contracts for no reason other than the takedown design. Sig didn't stop with eliminating the need to release the striker, they actually designed the gun so the magazine has to be removed and the slide open for takedown. While not the first time this was done, it is sheer genius.

The multiple sizes of frame (full, compact, sub-compact) as well as ability to fit different hand sizes (small, medium, large), ambidextrous controls, good out of box trigger, use of existing Sig sights, etc. all indicate a very serious player.

If I were selecting a new duty gun for an agency, then the P320 has substantive differences that matter and you can sell the selection with a straight face.

[LSP552]

I keep telling myself I need to get one and spend some quality time with it. I've handled one in the local candy store and it felt pretty good and the trigger was very usable.

[Clusterfrack]

After switching from a G34 to a 320 for USPSA, I am now carrying a 320c instead of a G19. I've put enough time and ammo in the platform to be confident in it. I could be very happy going back to Glock, but appreciate the edge the 320 gives me in accuracy, trigger, and grip geometry. (I have had trigger work done on my competition and carry guns.)_

[JodyH]

Consensus? On Pistol-Forum.com? Surely you jest.

[pblanc]

I first became interested in the SIG P320 because of its much touted (by SIG) modularity. I seldom carry but I saw in the P320 the option of having a full-size pistol chambered in either .40 or .45 cal and a compact 9 mm by buying a 9 mm compact caliber X-change kit. I had no prior allegiance to SIG Sauer, had never owned one, and always considered them rather overpriced.

Early this year I had the opportunity to shoot both the full-size P320 in .40 cal S&W, and an HK VP9, both as rentals at a nearby range. I preferred the P320 as it seemed to fit my hand better and I shot it better, despite not being a huge fan of .40 cal. The VP9 also had a tendency to pinch my trigger finger against the bottom of the trigger guard. I decided to wait for the .45 cal P320 which SIG had already been promising for around 6 months or so. I have shot Glocks but never been a fan of them. They don't feel good in my hand, and the stock triggers on the P320 and HK VP9 were much better than those on any Glock I have shot.

Last April Fool's Day SIG raised the price of the caliber X-change kits by $100 overnight without advance warning. They are now priced at a point at which buying an X-change kit instead of a complete new pistol makes little sense for the vast majority of people. What is more, when SIG finally released the .45 caliber P320 this fall, we found that the FCU for the .45 will not work with the other calibers so the .45 ACP is a stand-alone platform. But SIG did not have the grace to announce this publicly, they just left it for people to figure it out on their own, one by one. The incompatibility issue of the .45 caliber with the other calibers is not a big deal for me since the X-change kits are priced so high I would choose to just buy a complete second pistol. But it was a disappointment for some.

Needless to say, I think SIG has screwed the pooch big time with the roll out of this pistol which has probably not helped its popularity. Nonetheless, I believe it is a good pistol and did, in fact, buy a full size .45 caliber P320 which I got with night sights NIB for just under $500 out the door. I have only shot a couple hundred rounds through it so far but have been very pleased with its performance. No malfunctions (with FMJ ammo), good recoil absorption, good accuracy and a very nice trigger. The medium grip module on the full size feels as if it was molded for my hand.

I also shot a HK VP40 and thought that was a very nice pistol. The HK VPs have a bit more take up in their triggers and the P320 trigger just seems to work better for me. Others feel the opposite. I have not yet had the opportunity to shoot a Walther PPQ.

I may buy a compact 9 mm P320 for carry. Actually, I would probably buy the "carry" model P320 with the compact slide and full length grip module for range use, and buy a compact grip module and a couple of the shorter magazines for the compact. A grip module and a couple of mags can be found for not much over $100 if you shop around. So to this extent the "modularity" of the P320 still holds water for me. But my frustrations with SIG's business practices will cause me to very carefully examine some other alternatives first.

[YVK]

After switching from a G34 to a 320 for USPSA, I am now carrying a 320c instead of a G19. I've put enough time and ammo in the platform to be confident in it. I could be very happy going back to Glock, but appreciate the edge the 320 gives me in accuracy, trigger, and grip geometry. (I have had trigger work done on my competition and carry guns.)_

Did your scores and percentages go up?

[PPGMD]

Sig was really, really smart with the design (so smart that I can't believe Sig did it).

There is a reason for it, the P320 was designed by SIG USA, not SIG Germany. The American engineers seems to listen pretty readily to end user input, and are willing to make small generational changes to the design based on that input.

But yes the take down is pretty neat, I've spent a lot of time showing people how it works. Most often to show them why they get a dead trigger after taking the pistol down sometimes.

My impression is that SIG is playing for keeps. They know that plastic SFA guns are the future of LE/MIL service pistols, and they want SIG to be part of that future.

[GMSweet]

I'll be waiting on consensus...from my wife.:D She does not like my M&P at all due to the thumb safety and scalloped slide serrations. If she goes with a Glock 19, I'll remain with my M&P and we'll be a two manufacturer family (I'm not a Glock fan). However, she borrowed a P250 a while back and liked it, but had a bit of trigger pinch which I understand translated to the P320. If she picks the P320, I may very well move on from the M&P to share mags, frames, accessories and the like provided I can drop it off at Sig and get a thumb safety added on like they show on the website. Besides, I live in NH and the trip to the Sig HQ is just a little over an hour away. I admit that the made in NH factor pulls me slightly more than the joy of owning something made in the occupied territory south of the border to me.

[LSP972]

Most often to show them why they get a dead trigger after taking the pistol down sometimes.


So, it is possible to incorrectly re-assemble a P320 so that it appears to function, but won't shoot?

.

[pblanc]

I'll be waiting on consensus...from my wife.:D She does not like my M&P at all due to the thumb safety and scalloped slide serrations. If she goes with a Glock 19, I'll remain with my M&P and we'll be a two manufacturer family (I'm not a Glock fan). However, she borrowed a P250 a while back and liked it, but had a bit of trigger pinch which I understand translated to the P320. If she picks the P320, I may very well move on from the M&P to share mags, frames, accessories and the like provided I can drop it off at Sig and get a thumb safety added on like they show on the website. Besides, I live in NH and the trip to the Sig HQ is just a little over an hour away. I admit that the made in NH factor pulls me slightly more than the joy of owning something made in the occupied territory south of the border to me.
Some people have experienced trigger bite with the P320, others with the HK VP9, and some with both. The newer P320s seem to be coming with a redesigned "adverse" trigger which may reduce the likelihood of trigger bite. I have had no issues with either the original P320 trigger or the newer one, but did with the VP9. Bottom line, your wife should try one and see.

[GMSweet]

The newer P320s seem to be coming with a redesigned "adverse" trigger which may reduce the likelihood of trigger bite. I'd read that as well. The good news is my local range finally put at P320 compact into the rental case. I believe the next trip out for my wife will include a VP9, P320, and a borrowed G19. Ahh shucks. :cool:

[incogneato]

I've been very favorably impressed with my P320 (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2015/04/saturday-range-trip-part-i.html). Its biggest downside from my point of view is that it doesn't have the aftermarket support of the Glock/M&P duo.

In your hands, how has the accuracy compared between the M&P and P320?

[PPGMD]

So, it is possible to incorrectly re-assemble a P320 so that it appears to function, but won't shoot?

.

As Tom mentions you can't insert a magazine as you wouldn't be lulled into thinking you have a functioning gun. But more than once person has complained "I cleaned my pistol and now it doesn't release the striker."

[Clusterfrack]

Did your scores and percentages go up?

Yes. I've seen a bump in match placement and classifier percentages--especially where high accuracy is required. My splits are not quite consistently where they were with the Glock yet but all my other drill metrics are superior with the 320.

It's hard to establish cause and effect because of all the practice time I've invested in the platform shift.

[farscott]

On paper, I really like the features of the P320, especially the ability to swap grip modules. As someone with small hands, a small grip module that costs $45 is a lot less expense than a grip reduction, and the low cost promotes tinkering without fear of scrapping the serialized component. I also like that the P320 uses the same sights as the P22x-series pistols, parts seem to be readily available, and magazines are not unobtanium. I am not sure that the ability to swap uppers is that a big a deal for me, but I do like the idea of having a pistol in 9x19 that can easily be switched to .40 S&W in the event of another ammo shortage.

The P320 intrigued me enough to get one as a Christmas present.

[Warren Wilson]

The P320 can have a dead trigger upon reassembly if you do not press up on the slide lock lever (as to lock the slide to the rear) when the slide is rearward. This occurs when a person holds the slide to the rear with their hand and simply rotates takedown lover back up without locking the slide. This, however, is really not an issue as it is not possible to seat (by about 1/2" -- I just measured, it's actually 5/8") the magazine when the gun is in this condition. The solution is to fully retract the slide and press upward on the slide stop lever. After doing this, you no longer have a dead trigger and can fully insert a magazine.

So, to answer your question, no it's not possible to reassemble a P320 so that it appears to function but won't shoot. At least not due to this "issue".

ETA: The manual also, in part, states:



I'm sure I'm not the only person that didn't read the manual. :)

Sadly, you are not. :o

[Tamara]

But it is getting there.

Oh, no doubt! I guess I should have added "yet". :)

[Tamara]

In your hands, how has the accuracy compared between the M&P and P320?

It is noticeably better than the M&P for me at pretty much any range. I'll try and bench it against my backup M&P9 this week and see how they stack up at 10/15/25.

[incogneato]

Thanks, Tamera.

[LSP972]

So, to answer your question, no it's not possible to reassemble a P320 so that it appears to function but won't shoot. At least not due to this "issue".



Got it, thanks.

.

[john c]

My FS p320 was definitely a "Monday" gun. The trigger was horrible, in comparison to others that I tried. In taking it apart, it's clear that the trigger bar is grinding against the frame. There's a dab of grease on it, but this one is bad. In fairness, after 500-1000 dry fires, it's now acceptable. My late model M&P 40 trigger is still much better, though.

Also, my rear sight was visibly canted to the left, causing the gun to shoot way to the left out of the box. I've now drifted the sights back to center, where they should have been from the factory. I found out belatedly that Sig sights do NOT register by aligning the top of the front sight between the tops of the rear sight. The gun will shoot high. The sights are aligned by lining up the dots on the sights. Other brands, like Beretta, register the dots AND the tops of the sights.

I also get severe trigger sting from firing the gun. This is the first gun that's done that to me. I'm working on modifying my trigger finger placement to avoid trigger sting. It feels like an electric shock to my trigger finger.

My primary duty weapon experience over the last 20 years has been a Glock 17. In comparison, I get more muzzle flip, presumably from the high bore axis, from the p320. Bruce Gray mentions that the pistol is over-sprung for duty reliability. For competition use, he recommends a lower weight recoil spring on an after-market guide rod.

I'm not done with the pistol yet. I'm going to continue to work on trigger finger placement, and try my TLR-1 on the front of it, and see how that does.

On the plus side, it does seem accurate, which is the reason I was interested in the pistol to begin with.

Although I got a lemon, I don't hold it against Sig, or the platform. All manufacturers put out lemons at various times. I think the platform is good, but so far I think the Glock 17 kills it, hands down. The modularity is cool, but remember the extra grips are $54, shipped. I got a large grip.

I think the best size combo is probably the Carry. Knowing what I know now, I would have purchased that instead of the full sized version. It's a big pistol.

I also would not have purchased my specific pistol, with a trigger that bad. But I had to order it sight unseen, and I prepaid for it. It came in to the store, and I took it home without dry firing it. Lesson learned.

[HCM]

My FS p320 was definitely a "Monday" gun. The trigger was horrible, in comparison to others that I tried. In taking it apart, it's clear that the trigger bar is grinding against the frame. There's a dab of grease on it, but this one is bad. In fairness, after 500-1000 dry fires, it's now acceptable. My late model M&P 40 trigger is still much better, though.

Also, my rear sight was visibly canted to the left, causing the gun to shoot way to the left out of the box. I've now drifted the sights back to center, where they should have been from the factory. I found out belatedly that Sig sights do NOT register by aligning the top of the front sight between the tops of the rear sight. The gun will shoot high. The sights are aligned by lining up the dots on the sights. Other brands, like Beretta, register the dots AND the tops of the sights.

I also get severe trigger sting from firing the gun. This is the first gun that's done that to me. I'm working on modifying my trigger finger placement to avoid trigger sting. It feels like an electric shock to my trigger finger.

My primary duty weapon experience over the last 20 years has been a Glock 17. In comparison, I get more muzzle flip, presumably from the high bore axis, from the p320. Bruce Gray mentions that the pistol is over-sprung for duty reliability. For competition use, he recommends a lower weight recoil spring on an after-market guide rod.

I'm not done with the pistol yet. I'm going to continue to work on trigger finger placement, and try my TLR-1 on the front of it, and see how that does.

On the plus side, it does seem accurate, which is the reason I was interested in the pistol to begin with.

I would send that gun back to SIG. Regarding the sights, your sig. should shoot to either the tip of the front sight or the dot depending on the ammunition. It should shoot to point of aim by lining up the conventional sight picture. Several P320 from the first year of production had issues with shooting high, including my 9mm P320C. Swapping out the number 8 9mm height sight for a number 6, 40caliber front addressed the issue on mine.

[john c]

I would send that gun back to SIG. Regarding the sights, your sig. should shoot to either the tip of the front sight or the dot depending on the ammunition. It should shoot to point of aim by lining up the conventional sight picture. Several P320 from the first year of production had issues with shooting high, including my 9mm P320C. Swapping out the number 8 9mm height sight for a number 6, 40caliber front addressed the issue on mine.

I received no service from SIG at all. I called Kyle Faucher and spoke with him. I also exchanged emails with him several times. I could pay for shipping back to SIG and they would test fire the gun. If nothing was found, they would charge me ~$150 for the evaluation before sending my pistol back to me. I had a strong feeling that my pistol would be "within spec" and I'd be out more money.

I was the most surprised when they didn't offer to send me a #8 sight. I had a Ruger with an elevation issue, and they sent me a new rear sight, no questions asked. Sig wanted to charge me $36 for it, which seemed like HK pricing, to me. ;)

With respect to the sights aligning to the top of the sights versus the dots, I'm having trouble understanding how this could be when the dots and the tops of the sights clearly don't like up. One is lined up, or the other. It could be that these sights were designed for the P226, which has a shorter barrel length, and they shoehorned them on the full size p320. I don't know.

I decided to spend additional money on adjustable LPA sights instead of trips back to SIG. I haven't mounted them yet, but if I can work out some of the other issues, I will.

[Gio]

As Tom mentions you can't insert a magazine as you wouldn't be lulled into thinking you have a functioning gun. But more than once person has complained "I cleaned my pistol and now it doesn't release the striker."


You would be shocked at how many non-gun enthusiast LEO's I've worked with who reassemble a glock incorrectly, most commonly by missing the rear rails with the slide, and instead of asking for help, they holster up and leave hoping no one will notice. This does sound like a small issue for LE agencies to deal with.

[UNK]

Be aware however concerning the different size grip modules. They are unobtanium right now due to, as Sig told me, a switch in suppliers. I've had a large for the carry model on order since October and they cant tell me when it will ship.

[UNK]

Wow That's BS. Piss poor customer service. I've noticed quite a difference in VP9 triggers but not so with the 320. Looks like you are between a rock and a hard spot. Have you tried getting it resolved through the gun store you bought it from? I know the LGS I purchased mine at has a Sig Rep visiting occasionally and they probably could call him for a specific issue like this. If that didn't work out I would call this guy. http://thesigarmorer.com/



I received no service from SIG at all. I called Kyle Faucher and spoke with him. I also exchanged emails with him several times. I could pay for shipping back to SIG and they would test fire the gun. If nothing was found, they would charge me ~$150 for the evaluation before sending my pistol back to me. I had a strong feeling that my pistol would be "within spec" and I'd be out more money.

I was the most surprised when they didn't offer to send me a #8 sight. I had a Ruger with an elevation issue, and they sent me a new rear sight, no questions asked. Sig wanted to charge me $36 for it, which seemed like HK pricing, to me. ;)

With respect to the sights aligning to the top of the sights versus the dots, I'm having trouble understanding how this could be when the dots and the tops of the sights clearly don't like up. One is lined up, or the other. It could be that these sights were designed for the P226, which has a shorter barrel length, and they shoehorned them on the full size p320. I don't know.

I decided to spend additional money on adjustable LPA sights instead of trips back to SIG. I haven't mounted them yet, but if I can work out some of the other issues, I will.

[PPGMD]

You would be shocked at how many non-gun enthusiast LEO's I've worked with who reassemble a glock incorrectly, most commonly by missing the rear rails with the slide, and instead of asking for help, they holster up and leave hoping no one will notice. This does sound like a small issue for LE agencies to deal with.

Honestly the more educated users will have it happen to them more than the amateurs. I did a video last night (which I need to get a hair cut and shoot again), and honestly it wasn't the easiest thing to hold the slide back and rotate the take down lever back into position.

And the magazine sticking out a half an inch is pretty obvious.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I received no service from SIG at all. I called Kyle Faucher and spoke with him. I also exchanged emails with him several times. I could pay for shipping back to SIG and they would test fire the gun. If nothing was found, they would charge me ~$150 for the evaluation before sending my pistol back to me. I had a strong feeling that my pistol would be "within spec" and I'd be out more money.

I was the most surprised when they didn't offer to send me a #8 sight. I had a Ruger with an elevation issue, and they sent me a new rear sight, no questions asked. Sig wanted to charge me $36 for it, which seemed like HK pricing, to me. ;)

With respect to the sights aligning to the top of the sights versus the dots, I'm having trouble understanding how this could be when the dots and the tops of the sights clearly don't like up. One is lined up, or the other. It could be that these sights were designed for the P226, which has a shorter barrel length, and they shoehorned them on the full size p320. I don't know.

I decided to spend additional money on adjustable LPA sights instead of trips back to SIG. I haven't mounted them yet, but if I can work out some of the other issues, I will.

I'd call SIG back and talk to someone else--they're hit and miss with their customer service. I dealt with a couple of issues last year, and had two great experiences, and one guy that was such a jackass that I never wanted to deal with SIG again. SIG CS definitely seems to be the place where you go ask mom if dad doesn't give you the answer you want...

[JBP55]

John C, If you have to pay shipping and pay Sig for the work that sucks. If that is the case I would pay Robert Burke to fix it right.

[Bruce Gray]

My FS p320 was definitely a "Monday" gun. The trigger was horrible, in comparison to others that I tried. In taking it apart, it's clear that the trigger bar is grinding against the frame. There's a dab of grease on it, but this one is bad. In fairness, after 500-1000 dry fires, it's now acceptable. My late model M&P 40 trigger is still much better, though.

Also, my rear sight was visibly canted to the left, causing the gun to shoot way to the left out of the box. I've now drifted the sights back to center, where they should have been from the factory. I found out belatedly that Sig sights do NOT register by aligning the top of the front sight between the tops of the rear sight. The gun will shoot high. The sights are aligned by lining up the dots on the sights. Other brands, like Beretta, register the dots AND the tops of the sights.

I also get severe trigger sting from firing the gun. This is the first gun that's done that to me. I'm working on modifying my trigger finger placement to avoid trigger sting. It feels like an electric shock to my trigger finger.

My primary duty weapon experience over the last 20 years has been a Glock 17. In comparison, I get more muzzle flip, presumably from the high bore axis, from the p320. Bruce Gray mentions that the pistol is over-sprung for duty reliability. For competition use, he recommends a lower weight recoil spring on an after-market guide rod.

I'm not done with the pistol yet. I'm going to continue to work on trigger finger placement, and try my TLR-1 on the front of it, and see how that does.

On the plus side, it does seem accurate, which is the reason I was interested in the pistol to begin with.

Although I got a lemon, I don't hold it against Sig, or the platform. All manufacturers put out lemons at various times. I think the platform is good, but so far I think the Glock 17 kills it, hands down. The modularity is cool, but remember the extra grips are $54, shipped. I got a large grip.

I think the best size combo is probably the Carry. Knowing what I know now, I would have purchased that instead of the full sized version. It's a big pistol.

I also would not have purchased my specific pistol, with a trigger that bad. But I had to order it sight unseen, and I prepaid for it. It came in to the store, and I took it home without dry firing it. Lesson learned.

Hi! If you'd like, I'll be happy to adjust your trigger mechanism to spec and zero the thing as a favour to you. You can contact me via bruce@grayguns.com.

Of course, lemons exist. I can say we've handled a few with crunchy trigger takeup or funny reset timing, but they have been few both as a % of the hundreds we see, and in real numbers.

Still, when its your gun the rate of incidence is 100%.

-Bruce Gray (Discosure: Manager, Team SIG and R&D consultant with deep, or maybe derp, experience with this platform.)

[Bruce Gray]

I would not advise mounting the LPA to your P320. I cannot speak to your contact with CS, but I can definitely take care of your needs personally as a favour. It pains me to read of issues like yours that really should be easily solved. We'll pony up for shipping.

-Bruce

[UNK]

Wish I could like more than once.


I would not advise mounting the LPA to your P320. I cannot speak to your contact with CS, but I can definitely take care of your needs personally as a favour. It pains me to read of issues like yours that really should be easily solved. We'll pony up for shipping.

-Bruce


Hi! If you'd like, I'll be happy to adjust your trigger mechanism to spec and zero the thing as a favour to you. You can contact me via bruce@grayguns.com.

Of course, lemons exist. I can say we've handled a few with crunchy trigger takeup or funny reset timing, but they have been few both as a % of the hundreds we see, and in real numbers.

Still, when its your gun the rate of incidence is 100%.

-Bruce Gray (Discosure: Manager, Team SIG and R&D consultant with deep, or maybe derp, experience with this platform.)

[JBP55]

I would not advise mounting the LPA to your P320. I cannot speak to your contact with CS, but I can definitely take care of your needs personally as a favour. It pains me to read of issues like yours that really should be easily solved. We'll pony up for shipping.

-Bruce

It does not get any better than that!

[MGW]

I would send that gun back to SIG. Regarding the sights, your sig. should shoot to either the tip of the front sight or the dot depending on the ammunition. It should shoot to point of aim by lining up the conventional sight picture. Several P320 from the first year of production had issues with shooting high, including my 9mm P320C. Swapping out the number 8 9mm height sight for a number 6, 40caliber front addressed the issue on mine.

I know if two recent manufacture full size P320's that also shoot high so it's not fixed in all of them yet. The most recent manufactured pistol belongs to my dad who was a Sig armor when KHP carried P220's.

A call to Sig resulted in denial from the CS that the pistol should shoot high. He did sell my dad "the tallest front sight they have". I don't remember what the charge was because he ordered a large frame at the same time. New front sight was installed and it's still impacting 2-3" high at 15 yards. This is supported off of sand bags.

As a note this is with 115 grain ammo. Before the sight change we tried both 115 and 124 grain ammo. The sights are the only issue with the pistol. Trigger is very nice, a little heavy, but very smooth with a clean break.

Sights can be fixed. Just need to find the correct combo. I really like the platform and I think it has a lot of potential. I'm pretty heavily invested in Glocks or I would pick one up for myself.

[john c]

I would not advise mounting the LPA to your P320. I cannot speak to your contact with CS, but I can definitely take care of your needs personally as a favour. It pains me to read of issues like yours that really should be easily solved. We'll pony up for shipping.

-Bruce

Bruce;

First, I'm honored that you're replying to my post! Your success with the pistol, and comments about its unusual accuracy prompted me to buy it. (Full disclosure: my agency only authorizes Glock, Sig, S&W, and Beretta; so the VP9 was out. I wanted this for duty use)

Since I got this pistol, I thought it would be a great candidate for a trip to you. It's probably better to send a lemon in for a full tune than a pistol in the top few percent.

I'm interested to hear why LPA sights aren't a good choice. I prefer serrated front and rear sights, I see them better and can concentrate on the front sight easier. However, I'm always open to suggestions. My first issued duty gun was a model 66, so I'm used to and prefer adjustable sights.

Thank you for your generous offer. I will email you.

[stingray]

I would not advise mounting the LPA to your P320. I cannot speak to your contact with CS, but I can definitely take care of your needs personally as a favour. It pains me to read of issues like yours that really should be easily solved. We'll pony up for shipping.

-Bruce

I would think the OP just got a real good idea just how good the P320 is............

[qwiksdraw]

While I own three Glocks, the P320 is everything a Glock wants to be in ergonomics, sights, trigger, ease of shooting and manual of arms.

[JBP55]

While I own three Glocks, the P320 is everything a Glock wants to be in ergonomics, sights, trigger, ease of shooting and manual of arms.

It is too new for anyone to know about reliability which is very important. Does anyone have any with a high round count?

[Clusterfrack]

p320 9mm Full size (Grayguns): 5055 rounds. No failures.

p320c 9mm (Burke): 750 rounds. When new, I had multiple stovepipes with 125gr 130 power factor reloads but none with Fed HST 147. Now the gun cycles all loads.

p320c 9mm: 127 rounds. No failures.

[JBP55]

p320 9mm Full size (Grayguns): 5055 rounds. No failures.

p320c 9mm (Burke): 750 rounds. When new, I had multiple stovepipes with 125gr 130 power factor reloads but none with Fed HST 147. Now the gun cycles all loads.

p320c 9mm: 127 rounds. No failures.


I am talking about high round counts of 50,000 plus. I ran my first Gen 4 G17 over 52,000 rounds with zero failures and it looked almost new when it went to a new home.

[Tamara]

It is too new for anyone to know about reliability which is very important. Does anyone have any with a high round count?

Your second sentence has nothing to do with your first.

[PPGMD]

I am talking about high round counts of 50,000 plus. I ran my first Gen 4 G17 over 52,000 rounds with zero failures and it looked almost new when it went to a new home.

Send me 38,000 rounds and check back with me in 2 years.

[Sammy1]

Bruce;

First, I'm honored that you're replying to my post! Your success with the pistol, and comments about its unusual accuracy prompted me to buy it. (Full disclosure: my agency only authorizes Glock, Sig, S&W, and Beretta; so the VP9 was out. I wanted this for duty use)

Since I got this pistol, I thought it would be a great candidate for a trip to you. It's probably better to send a lemon in for a full tune than a pistol in the top few percent.

I'm interested to hear why LPA sights aren't a good choice. I prefer serrated front and rear sights, I see them better and can concentrate on the front sight easier. However, I'm always open to suggestions. My first issued duty gun was a model 66, so I'm used to and prefer adjustable sights.

Thank you for your generous offer. I will email you.

Don't send anything to him, ever other gun will feel like junk after shooting one he's tinkered with.

[Texaspoff]

I have been nothing but impressed with the 320 platform. I was tasked with looking into department issued weapons several months back and so contacted several manufactures. We had several test guns, and the Glocks and Sigs came out on top. During our testing, the 320's and the Glocks performed flawlessly. The 320 rated top due to eros, and the ability of multiple officers able to score better with it over the Glock. Several of those officers were carrying glocks.

Well ultimately the department decided not to go with issued weapons, thank gawd. After that testing, several officers purchased 320's including myself and the other two range instructors. I have personally run over 5k rounds through my 320's including 124 +p duty rounds. To date I have not had a single failure of any kind. None of the other folks carrying them here have had any reported failures either.

I have been a Glock person for a very long time. I am very impressed with the 320 and it's performance. As far as dealing with Sig CS, I have never had anything but good experiences with them. I have ordered multiple parts from them and never had an issue. I think the 320 has a very bright future ahead. The 320 has been gaining a lot of momentum over the past several months.

TXPO

[JHC]

The 320 rated top due to eros,

The grip is nice, dunno about THAT nice. ;)

[OkieHeat]

I wanted to like and buy a 320 but i have not warm up to the grip so far.

[MGW]

I think the grip is the best part. I one of the few that can't warm up to the take down lever. It's in the exact wrong spot for me. It would need to be substantially thinner and dehorned to work with my grip. Other than that I think they are great.

[Bruce Gray]

It is too new for anyone to know about reliability which is very important. Does anyone have any with a high round count?

Hi! My Team SIG shooters have approximately >400,000 rounds through 35 P320's so far this season. Some individual pistols have seen 35 or 40 thousand. So far, we've logged remarkably few failures: three cracked striker locks (since improved), three worn extractors (since improved), one cracked takedown safety lever, a bunch of fatigued striker reset springs due to extensive dryfire training, and five pistols that developed funny reset timing after high use, and which was related to our early sear work, since improved as a result.

No other gun-induced malfunctions have been reported by my Team, and precious few that are attributable to ammo for that matter. These things work and hold up. I stake my reputation on that assertion, backed by extensive, perhaps almost unprecedented testing and ongoing refinement. Respectfully offered.

-Bruce

[Bruce Gray]

I wanted to like and buy a 320 but i have not warm up to the grip so far.

OK, Please wait about a month. ��

-Bruce

[Wayne Dobbs]

OK, Please wait about a month. ��

-Bruce

Sounds like something to see at SHOT!

[JBP55]

Hi! My Team SIG shooters have approximately >400,000 rounds through 35 P320's so far this season. Some individual pistols have seen 35 or 40 thousand. So far, we've logged remarkably few failures: three cracked striker locks (since improved), three worn extractors (since improved), one cracked takedown safety lever, a bunch of fatigued striker reset springs due to extensive dryfire training, and five pistols that developed funny reset timing after high use, and which was related to our early sear work, since improved as a result.

No other gun-induced malfunctions have been reported by my Team, and precious few that are attributable to ammo for that matter. These things work and hold up. I stake my reputation on that assertion, backed by extensive, perhaps almost unprecedented testing and ongoing refinement. Respectfully offered.

-Bruce

Thanks Bruce, That is exactly what I was looking for and did not expect to find this soon with a new design.

[JBP55]

Send me 38,000 rounds and check back with me in 2 years.

Thanks for the offer but since I have not ordered ammunition recently and have less than 20,000 rounds of 9mm ammunition on hand I will have to pass.

[OkieHeat]

OK, Please wait about a month. ��

-Bruce

Sounds fair to me.

[stingray]

Hi! My Team SIG shooters have approximately >400,000 rounds through 35 P320's so far this season. Some individual pistols have seen 35 or 40 thousand. So far, we've logged remarkably few failures: three cracked striker locks (since improved), three worn extractors (since improved), one cracked takedown safety lever, a bunch of fatigued striker reset springs due to extensive dryfire training, and five pistols that developed funny reset timing after high use, and which was related to our early sear work, since improved as a result.

No other gun-induced malfunctions have been reported by my Team, and precious few that are attributable to ammo for that matter. These things work and hold up. I stake my reputation on that assertion, backed by extensive, perhaps almost unprecedented testing and ongoing refinement. Respectfully offered.

-Bruce

Sitting in Sig's armorers course for this gun, I thought they had a real winner on their hands. You seem to have proven this beyond any reasonable doubt. It will be interesting to read what the nay-sayers come up with.

[Clusterfrack]

OK, Please wait about a month. ��

-Bruce

Very mysterious... I'm eager to see what y'all came up with.

[CanineCombatives]

I'm up to about 6k between a FS and C without a hitch, most of that has been a mix of blazer alloy and remington UMC, work ammo
is 124gr +P HST but I've run a variety of premium stuff thru them also with 100% reliability.

I've been in the platform about a year now after 23 years with glock, I have no intentions of going back.

[DpdG]

I'm very interested in the 320, but I'm somewhat skittish about buying in at this point. It seems like between MHS, FBI, and the Gray version of "Soon" that waiting would be advisable. Having said that, at what point does one say that the present version is good enough? Alternately, are the potential upgrades in the pipeline capable of being easily retrofit to a today spec gun?

At this point I'm mostly concerned with the MHS spec slide stop (at least the slide stop seen on the MHS samples floating around the net) and a low pro takedown lever. I know the takedown is easily changed, but I tend to look at the FCU (including slide stop) as a sealed unit.

-G

[taadski]

Don't send anything to him, ever other gun will feel like junk after shooting one he's tinkered with.


QFT.

[John Hearne]

QFT.

Double QFT.

[psalms144.1]

I'm very interested in the 320, but I'm somewhat skittish about buying in at this point. It seems like between MHS, FBI, and the Gray version of "Soon" that waiting would be advisable.
At this point I'm mostly concerned with the MHS spec slide stop (at least the slide stop seen on the MHS samples floating around the net) and a low pro takedown lever. I know the takedown is easily changed, but I tend to look at the FCU (including slide stop) as a sealed unit.-G
After suggesting another agent go check out the P320C along with the G19 as possible personal weapons to replace the P229R DAK, and reading the comments in this thread; I was 98.8% convinced I was going to get a C for myself to put under the Xmas tree. Then Mr. Gray comes along with his "soon" pronouncement, and I, too, am hesitant to buy until we see what SHOT is going to unveil. If Mr. Gray says something improved is coming "soon," I figure it's best for me to hold my hard earned cash to see what it is.

Having seen some videos of detail stripping the FCU, I'm also hesitant to even think about swapping the slide release, so I'm eagerly awaiting the P320.2...

[UNK]

I would love to see a write up on the Grayguns and the Burke work.


p320 9mm Full size (Grayguns): 5055 rounds. No failures.

p320c 9mm (Burke): 750 rounds. When new, I had multiple stovepipes with 125gr 130 power factor reloads but none with Fed HST 147. Now the gun cycles all loads.

p320c 9mm: 127 rounds. No failures.

[11B10]

I read all the plusses and minuses to be found - but after shooting a 320C, I couldn't wait - bought one a bit over a month ago. Very limited live fire (<500 rounds), but absolutely love what I'm seeing so far. Extremely accurate with one of THE best OEM triggers I've ever felt. I just ordered a set of TFX PROs for it (mine arrived with contrast sights). I will be very anxious to read any/all updates

[DpdG]

I guess this is directed at Mr. Gray- if one had already decided to get a factory (not necessarily GrayGuns tuned) 320, would it be smarter to wait for whatever is coming down the pipeline? At what point is current spec considered good enough- now, MHS, FBI, "Soon?"

I'm ok with aftermarket/modified grip modules I can install myself, but I'd like to keep the FCU all Sig OEM parts. If I'm mistaken about the FCU being sealed unit for the non-armorer, then that opens me up to update/backdate OE Sig parts.

[Bruce Gray]

After suggesting another agent go check out the P320C along with the G19 as possible personal weapons to replace the P229R DAK, and reading the comments in this thread; I was 98.8% convinced I was going to get a C for myself to put under the Xmas tree. Then Mr. Gray comes along with his "soon" pronouncement, and I, too, am hesitant to buy until we see what SHOT is going to unveil. If Mr. Gray says something improved is coming "soon," I figure it's best for me to hold my hard earned cash to see what it is.

Having seen some videos of detail stripping the FCU, I'm also hesitant to even think about swapping the slide release, so I'm eagerly awaiting the P320.2...

It's true that my definition of "soon" is somewhere between "next month" and "before one of our deaths". But now, some new and cleverly enhanced items are coming out. I can't disclose much of what my friends in New Hampshire will show you next month, but you will like what GGI's Roy Nelson and the brilliant engineers at SIG have designed for the P320 chassis. In addition, our first drop-in P320 comprehensive trigger upgrade kit is "imminent". That means sometime between next week and Saturday morning before we leave for SHOT. �� Waiting is hard. I guarantee the product of 16 months and 400,000 rounds will be worth it.

As for changing out your obsolete slide lock lever for the new one, my poodle PiPi can do it in two minutes, despite lacking thumbs nor much of a neocortex.

-Bruce

[cathellsk]

What's different about the slide release? I just bought a 320 Compact a couple weeks ago. Will any of these announcements necessitate me getting a new pistol or just being able to upgrade what I've got?

[DpdG]

Well looks like I have to eat a bit of crow then, if a mentally impaired poodle can change FCU parts inside two minutes, I guess my dumb behind should be able to. It looks like the reduced/forward leaning slide-stop has already hit the market as well, under P/N 1300891-R. I found a thread on GlockTalk of all places detailing it: http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/new-sig-p320-slide-catch-lever.1600609/

[Bruce Gray]

I think the grip is the best part. I one of the few that can't warm up to the take down lever. It's in the exact wrong spot for me. It would need to be substantially thinner and dehorned to work with my grip. Other than that I think they are great.

An alternative takedown lever is coming that addresses your concerns.

Some shooters use the thing as a support and want a bigger ledge. Others like me are ambivalent. Many complain that the stock lever eats them alive like goldfish at a frat initiation.

-Bruce

[Bruce Gray]

What's different about the slide release? I just bought a 320 Compact a couple weeks ago. Will any of these announcements necessitate me getting a new pistol or just being able to upgrade what I've got?

The new forward-set slide release, flat takedown lever, and "adverse" trigger (intended to attenuate pinching, YMMV) all retrofit existing pistols. Our new upgrade kits, Scott Springer's nice competition extended mag release, the Apex flat trigger also fit right into existing pistols. Our FAT P320-1911 guide rods (which permit use of standard 1911 recoil springs in Fullsize slide assemblies) fit pre-July pistols. A subsequent change to the slides caused a compatibility problem that we are resolving. For now, we'll modify customer slides slightly for free in a noncritical manner to restore compatibility.
I hope this info helps.

-Bruce (President, Grayguns Inc., makers of aftermarket and OEM SIG components, and consultants.)

[Bruce Gray]

Very mysterious... I'm eager to see what y'all came up with.

I wish I could spill the beans, but I am not cleared to comment specifically. I don't intend to be manipulative. I will say we all put huge thought and effort into the new...thing, and I am VERY confident that a large segment of both the competition and tactical cadres will love it. Soon. -Bruce

[Bruce Gray]

Double QFT.

I'm humbled. Thank you, guys. Its not just me, though. My wife Rodent, Roy Nelson, Brett Ozbun, Lyle Webber, Ty Humphreys, Darli Ozbun, Michael Boyd and our part-time people and contractors are the true heroes who's unbelievable work and determination put us where we are. They literally bled from their fingers and sacrificed to build our business, while by nothing but God's grace I came back from the cave of Lazarus after three heart attacks and bypass surgery to resume my place at the bench with them. When Grayguns excels as we strive to do, credit them. When we falter, it is invariably because despite their efforts, my shortcomings and eccentricities sometimes get in their way. True story: I'll proudly put them up against anyone in our field. If anyone wonders why I'm so thankful and happy...

-Bruce

[Bruce Gray]

Well looks like I have to eat a bit of crow then, if a mentally impaired poodle can change FCU parts inside two minutes, I guess my dumb behind should be able to. It looks like the reduced/forward leaning slide-stop has already hit the market as well, under P/N 1300891-R. I found a thread on GlockTalk of all places detailing it: http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/new-sig-p320-slide-catch-lever.1600609/

A mentally impaired poodle is a Pekingese. :) As small, cute dogs go, PiPi is a genius. That said, I've also taught some mighty impenetrable men to do this swap with ease.

-Bruce

[DpdG]

Thank you Mr. Gray, you've been more than generous with information and assistance in this thread. I apologize for playing 20 questions like a...Pekingese, but I have one last:


I wish I could spill the beans, but I am not cleared to comment specifically. I don't intend to be manipulative. I will say we all put huge thought and effort into the new...thing, and I am VERY confident that a large segment of both the competition and tactical cadres will love it. Soon. -Bruce

I respect the secrecy and am not trying to pry, but will your new "thingy" be an easy retrofit for existing pistols? I'm guessing yes, since you originally mentioned it in reference to a grip complaint, and the grip modules are so easy to change, but I figured while you're paying attention to the thread....

[Texaspoff]

The grip is nice, dunno about THAT nice. ;)

Freudian Slip....:)


TXPO

[Texaspoff]

I'm up to about 6k between a FS and C without a hitch, most of that has been a mix of blazer alloy and remington UMC, work ammo
is 124gr +P HST but I've run a variety of premium stuff thru them also with 100% reliability.

I've been in the platform about a year now after 23 years with glock, I have no intentions of going back.

I believe I'm with you on that train ride CC.

TXPO

[mizer67]

An GGI-tuned P320 v2 looks to be my first 2016 purchase. Good thing I didn't spring for one for X-mas as I was planning.

I'm curious though, are some of the P320's still consistently dumping the first round low at 50 yards or is that affliction peculiar to just one of GG's pistols?

[Steven T]

Mr Gray, Will Gray Guns be offering installation services of the adjustable rear sights like the team Sig P320s have?

[Texaspoff]

Well with all this new Sig stuff coming to fruition at Shot, Im glad I'm heading out there this year. Should be lots of fun.

TXPO

[Wayne Dobbs]

Well with all this new Sig stuff coming to fruition at Shot, Im glad I'm heading out there this year. Should be lots of fun.

TXPO

Be sure to come and see Nyeti and I at Aimpoint.

[Texaspoff]

Be sure to come and see Nyeti and I at Aimpoint.

I will sure do it. Department is sending me, our other firearms instructor and our LT. He is coming along for fun..lol.

TXPO

[Beat Trash]

Gents, I need advice and direction.

I took the plunge and bought a 320c 9mm several months ago. I liked it enough that I let my wife shoot it. Once I bought her a small sized frame, then I no longer owned a 320c, she did. So I bought another one.

Hers has the older trigger that is supposed to pinch fingers. No issues in either her tiny hands or my larger sized hands with fingers getting pinched. My 320c has the new trigger with the shelf to prevent pinching. When I dry fired the new gun, there is a secondary spongy "click" after the sear trips. If you hold your finger back after dry firing and reset the slide, (so as to see how far the trigger reset is) sometimes the sear is reset, sometimes it is not.

When I tok the trigger chassis out of the frame, one of the pins fell out.

I contacted Sig CS and told them of the issues. They issued a RMA number and emailed a shipping label. Gun went to them, they replaced the pin and a couple of other parts in the trigger chassis, shot 50 rds through the gun and sent it back, with a note saying all is within spec.

The funky double trigger pull when dry firing is still there. I have read on line that this may be due to tolerance stacking of parts within the trigger itself.

Can this be adjusted or fixed?

The gun fires with 100% reliability so far, but the dry firing issues is enough to make me want to dump the gun.

Is there anyone who's been to Sig armor's school or who is knowledgeable enough of the system to understand what I am trying to describe and can say if it can be addressed?

[Clusterfrack]

I would love to see a write up on the Grayguns and the Burke work.

They are both excellent, and totally worth the cost and wait. It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison because the Grayguns work was on my USPSA Production gun and the Burke work was for a 320c for carry.

The Grayguns trigger is outstanding, and probably the best comparison is to a good two stage rifle trigger. It breaks cleanly at 2.75 lbs, and has some of the pre-travel removed. The travel after reaching the "wall" is quite short. The GGI rear sight is now my favorite. I like it even better than the Taran rears on my old Production G34s. The 0.125” wide, 0.115” notch depth is matched with a Dawson P series FO front sight that is 0.220” tall, 0.115” wide. This yields an ideal sight picture for me that is a good balance between accuracy and speed.

The Burke "carry action job" took the 7+lb stock trigger and reduced it to 5.0 lbs. It smoothed out the pull, but did not change pretravel. It is a much more subtle change than the GGI competition job, but yields an excellent trigger feel.

I'm using the GGI "Fat" guide rod with a 14# 1911 Govt recoil spring, and the Springer extended mag release.

Note that Burke also offers a competition job that I have not had a chance to try.

I believe both action jobs retain OEM action and striker assembly springs.

Customer service was outstanding from both shops, and Bruce and Robert both seem like genuinely awesome dudes. Burke's turnaround was only a little over two weeks, and Gray took over 10 weeks.

Any other questions I can answer?

[Texaspoff]

Gents, I need advice and direction.

I took the plunge and bought a 320c 9mm several months ago. I liked it enough that I let my wife shoot it. Once I bought her a small sized frame, then I no longer owned a 320c, she did. So I bought another one.

Hers has the older trigger that is supposed to pinch fingers. No issues in either her tiny hands or my larger sized hands with fingers getting pinched. My 320c has the new trigger with the shelf to prevent pinching. When I dry fired the new gun, there is a secondary spongy "click" after the sear trips. If you hold your finger back after dry firing and reset the slide, (so as to see how far the trigger reset is) sometimes the sear is reset, sometimes it is not.

When I tok the trigger chassis out of the frame, one of the pins fell out.

I contacted Sig CS and told them of the issues. They issued a RMA number and emailed a shipping label. Gun went to them, they replaced the pin and a couple of other parts in the trigger chassis, shot 50 rds through the gun and sent it back, with a note saying all is within spec.

The funky double trigger pull when dry firing is still there. I have read on line that this may be due to tolerance stacking of parts within the trigger itself.

Can this be adjusted or fixed?

The gun fires with 100% reliability so far, but the dry firing issues is enough to make me want to dump the gun.

Is there anyone who's been to Sig armor's school or who is knowledgeable enough of the system to understand what I am trying to describe and can say if it can be addressed?

The double click during the trigger pull is something that has been discussed numerous times. It has to do with some fire control parts and timing. It is a condition that does not appear during live fire, so no worries there. My 320 did for a while when new, also has the newer adverse trigger. It will do it now when an empty magazine is in and I dry fire it. When there is no magazine in and I dry fire it, it doesn't do it. Either way it isn't a deal breaker for me, and you could send it to gray guns and have it tuned where as the double click would be banished.

Or just shoot the bejesus out of it and not worry about it, and enjoy it.

TXPO

[Duces Tecum]

Is there any word yet on the hoped-for thumb safety?

[Mr_White]

They are both excellent, and totally worth the cost and wait. It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison because the Grayguns work was on my USPSA Production gun and the Burke work was for a 320c for carry.

The Grayguns trigger is outstanding, and probably the best comparison is to a good two stage rifle trigger. It breaks cleanly at 2.75 lbs, and has some of the pre-travel removed. The travel after reaching the "wall" is quite short. The GGI rear sight is now my favorite. I like it even better than the Taran rears on my old Production G34s. The 0.125” wide, 0.115” notch depth is matched with a Dawson P series FO front sight that is 0.220” tall, 0.115” wide. This yields an ideal sight picture for me that is a good balance between accuracy and speed.

The Burke "carry action job" took the 7+lb stock trigger and reduced it to 5.0 lbs. It smoothed out the pull, but did not change pretravel. It is a much more subtle change than the GGI competition job, but yields an excellent trigger feel.

I'm using the GGI "Fat" guide rod with a 14# 1911 Govt recoil spring, and the Springer extended mag release.

Note that Burke also offers a competition job that I have not had a chance to try.

I believe both action jobs retain OEM action and striker assembly springs.

Customer service was outstanding from both shops, and Bruce and Robert both seem like genuinely awesome dudes. Burke's turnaround was only a little over two weeks, and Gray took over 10 weeks.

Any other questions I can answer?

I've felt both Clusterfrack's Gray and Burke guns and the triggers are really really nice.

[taadski]

....for reasons unrelated to enhancing or improving the trigger.

Moooohoooooohaaaaaaahahaaaaaaa!


;)

[UNK]

I was guessing that GG was for competition and Burke for carry. How long ago did you get the Burke carry trigger? Burke recently told me 25% reduction in pre travel. Would you consider the Burke trigger job crisp?


They are both excellent, and totally worth the cost and wait. It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison because the Grayguns work was on my USPSA Production gun and the Burke work was for a 320c for carry.

The Grayguns trigger is outstanding, and probably the best comparison is to a good two stage rifle trigger. It breaks cleanly at 2.75 lbs, and has some of the pre-travel removed. The travel after reaching the "wall" is quite short. The GGI rear sight is now my favorite. I like it even better than the Taran rears on my old Production G34s. The 0.125” wide, 0.115” notch depth is matched with a Dawson P series FO front sight that is 0.220” tall, 0.115” wide. This yields an ideal sight picture for me that is a good balance between accuracy and speed.

The Burke "carry action job" took the 7+lb stock trigger and reduced it to 5.0 lbs. It smoothed out the pull, but did not change pretravel. It is a much more subtle change than the GGI competition job, but yields an excellent trigger feel.

I'm using the GGI "Fat" guide rod with a 14# 1911 Govt recoil spring, and the Springer extended mag release.

Note that Burke also offers a competition job that I have not had a chance to try.

I believe both action jobs retain OEM action and striker assembly springs.

Customer service was outstanding from both shops, and Bruce and Robert both seem like genuinely awesome dudes. Burke's turnaround was only a little over two weeks, and Gray took over 10 weeks.

Any other questions I can answer?

[Tamara]

Moooohoooooohaaaaaaahahaaaaaaa!


;)

Inorite?

[cathellsk]

Are there pics of the new slide release, trigger, and takedown lever I can reference to see if my pistol has one or more of these upgrades? Also I'm assuming these are factory parts and a natural upgrade in the design? I'm a rookie with the 320 and just want to expand my knowledge of the design, thanks guys.

[Clusterfrack]

I was guessing that GG was for competition and Burke for carry. How long ago did you get the Burke carry trigger? Burke recently told me 25% reduction in pre travel. Would you consider the Burke trigger job crisp?

Yes, that's right. I carry the Burke and stock guns. The GGI trigger is too light and short for a carry gun IMO.

I compared the triggers on my three 320s side by side.

Stock and Burke Carry triggers have identical, but very small amounts of pre travel. I would not want the pre travel to be any less. The Burke trigger breaks more crisply, and with much less stacking. The stock trigger feels like the pull weight ramps up quite a bit before it breaks.

The GGI competition trigger has more pre travel than stock or Burke Carry triggers, and breaks more crisply than the Burke. The GGI has a very short break in comparison to the other two triggers.

(Note that I have not felt the Burke competition trigger, which would be the most directly comparable to the GGI)

[UNK]

OK Thanks


Yes, that's right. I carry the Burke and stock guns. The GGI trigger is too light and short for a carry gun IMO.

I compared the triggers on my three 320s side by side.

Stock and Burke Carry triggers have identical, but very small amounts of pre travel. I would not want the pre travel to be any less. The Burke trigger breaks more crisply, and with much less stacking. The stock trigger feels like the pull weight ramps up quite a bit before it breaks.

The GGI competition trigger has more pre travel than stock or Burke Carry triggers, and breaks more crisply than the Burke. The GGI has a very short break in comparison to the other two triggers.

(Note that I have not felt the Burke competition trigger, which would be the most directly comparable to the GGI)

[stingray]

Gents, I need advice and direction.

I took the plunge and bought a 320c 9mm several months ago. I liked it enough that I let my wife shoot it. Once I bought her a small sized frame, then I no longer owned a 320c, she did. So I bought another one.

Hers has the older trigger that is supposed to pinch fingers. No issues in either her tiny hands or my larger sized hands with fingers getting pinched. My 320c has the new trigger with the shelf to prevent pinching. When I dry fired the new gun, there is a secondary spongy "click" after the sear trips. If you hold your finger back after dry firing and reset the slide, (so as to see how far the trigger reset is) sometimes the sear is reset, sometimes it is not.

When I tok the trigger chassis out of the frame, one of the pins fell out.

I contacted Sig CS and told them of the issues. They issued a RMA number and emailed a shipping label. Gun went to them, they replaced the pin and a couple of other parts in the trigger chassis, shot 50 rds through the gun and sent it back, with a note saying all is within spec.

The funky double trigger pull when dry firing is still there. I have read on line that this may be due to tolerance stacking of parts within the trigger itself.

Can this be adjusted or fixed?

The gun fires with 100% reliability so far, but the dry firing issues is enough to make me want to dump the gun.

Is there anyone who's been to Sig armor's school or who is knowledgeable enough of the system to understand what I am trying to describe and can say if it can be addressed?

The double click thing was/is present on my P320. Try removing the magazine and see if it goes away. I think the double click has to do with the magazine and the way it sits in the FCU. The click doesn't effect the functioning.

[Tamara]

The double click thing was/is present on my P320. Try removing the magazine and see if it goes away. I think the double click has to do with the magazine and the way it sits in the FCU. The click doesn't effect the functioning.

Double click explained (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?18329-P320-consensus&p=382402&viewfull=1#post382402) upthread.

[taadski]

Yes, that's right. I carry the Burke and stock guns. The GGI trigger is too light and short for a carry gun IMO.

I compared the triggers on my three 320s side by side.

Stock and Burke Carry triggers have identical, but very small amounts of pre travel. I would not want the pre travel to be any less. The Burke trigger breaks more crisply, and with much less stacking. The stock trigger feels like the pull weight ramps up quite a bit before it breaks.

The GGI competition trigger has more pre travel than stock or Burke Carry triggers, and breaks more crisply than the Burke. The GGI has a very short break in comparison to the other two triggers.

(Note that I have not felt the Burke competition trigger, which would be the most directly comparable to the GGI)


That's a helpful comparison for me. Thanks.

[ydennekb]

but it requires you to either stop your finger exactly after the sear releases the striker but before the sear resets and hold it there through the entire recoil cycle, or for you to very quickly reset the trigger in recoil and start applying pressure to the trigger (which causes the sear to move downward) before the slide has returned to battery (which could cause the striker to not be picked up by the sear).

Understanding how unlikely this is, if the striker was not caught by the sear, would it be stuck in the "fired" position and possibly fire when the slide closes on the next round?

For the record, my 320 has the double click but has never had an issue with live fire.

[Mickey]

Someone wanted to know what the new style slide release looks like, well here it is. I took about 3 weeks for me to get both the slide release and the FDE medium grip module direct from SIG.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/15/02ec20e766ee2b626f92bac60a479f7a.jpg

[Beat Trash]

Thanks Tom_Jones and everyone else for the clarification.

[Tamara]

Someone wanted to know what the new style slide release looks like, well here it is.

Heh. I just reached down into the footwell of my desk to pull out my 320 for comparison, only to come up empty-handed. (It's been down there for months now because I was doing a lot of dry-fire with it.)

I just now was reminded that I moved it back into the safe this afternoon. :o

[UNK]

It should also be Noted that GGI also has a carry trigger offering.


Yes, that's right. I carry the Burke and stock guns. The GGI trigger is too light and short for a carry gun IMO.

I compared the triggers on my three 320s side by side.

Stock and Burke Carry triggers have identical, but very small amounts of pre travel. I would not want the pre travel to be any less. The Burke trigger breaks more crisply, and with much less stacking. The stock trigger feels like the pull weight ramps up quite a bit before it breaks.

The GGI competition trigger has more pre travel than stock or Burke Carry triggers, and breaks more crisply than the Burke. The GGI has a very short break in comparison to the other two triggers.

(Note that I have not felt the Burke competition trigger, which would be the most directly comparable to the GGI)

[OkieHeat]

Are the latest 320 coming from the factory have the updated trigger?

[GJM]

That's a helpful comparison for me. Thanks.

Normally I wouldn't pay too much attention to your thoughts on the 320 trigger, but now that you are a new USPSA Production Master, I am taking notes. :)

[Mr_White]

Congratulations on making Master taadski! Hard-earned and well-deserved! Very happy for you buddy.

[UNK]

Gadget ?





. I've not shot a P320 at all, but I have studied the fire control mechanism fairly extensively (for reasons unrelated to enhancing or improving the trigger).

[taadski]

Normally I wouldn't pay too much attention to your thoughts on the 320 trigger, but now that you are a new USPSA Production Master, I am taking notes. :)

It was an early Christmas gift. And besides, USPSA spots you 15% worth of grace points if you shoot a Sig.





:-P


Thanks Gabe. I appreciate it.

[pblanc]

Are the latest 320 coming from the factory have the updated trigger?
I purchased a full-size SIG P320 .45 about a month ago and it has the "adverse" trigger.

[LSP552]

Congratulations taadski! Shooting SIGs should earn style points!

[MGW]

There seems to be a lot of vertical play between the frame and slide on the 320 my dad has. How much movement is normal? I can't say that I've had another pistol with this amount of slack.

[pblanc]

There is quite a bit of vertical play between the slide and the grip module at the muzzle end of my full-size P320 .45 caliber. Note that SIG calls the fire control unit of this pistol the "frame".

Estimating the amount of vertical play with a digital caliper I get approx .023" or a little more than half a millimeter. I suspect the play is the result of the pistol design. The slide is supported by only 4 relatively small steel tabs on the FCU. The forward pair of these ends about 3 1/4 inch from the muzzle end of the slide.

On another forum, I read someone comment that they could see the muzzle end of the slide actually rise up with the recoil during live fire. I have looked for this when shooting my P320 and I have seen no evidence of it. When looking very closely at the pistol from the side while dry firing, I can see a very slight downward movement of the muzzle end of the slide just before the trigger break.

This play does not seem to affect the sight picture, or the function or accuracy of the pistol during live fire. I don't know if it will possibly be an issue as the pistol wears.

[PT Doc]

I just picked up my wife's Christmas present, which is a P320C, with the works from Robert Burke, and now I have a dilemma. I want this pistol. For me. Not to share.

Robert was an absolute pleasure to work with in every facet. Communication, both phone and email, was fast and easy. Turnaround was about three weeks. The work is exactly what I wanted. He even commented that of the 320s he's done, this was one of the best triggers.
He did a Carry Action Job that came out at just over 4.5 pounds. Clean and smooth, crisp break, with minimal take up, and a short, positive reset. Apex flat trigger, Trijicon Orange HD sights, mag well bevel, and his "Superfit" process, which to my understanding, is welding up the rails and then hand lapping them, to get a nice, tight fit. I will never shoot to the capability of this pistol.

Now it goes under the tree. Maybe she won't like it, and I can have it. It would truly be a Christmas miracle.

[JHC]

"Not to share" Gold :D

[SLG]

Normally I wouldn't pay too much attention to your thoughts on the 320 trigger, but now that you are a new USPSA Production Master, I am taking notes. :)

I missed this before, congrats taadski!

[YVK]

It was an early Christmas gift. And besides, USPSA spots you 15% worth of grace points if you shoot a Sig.




George told me yesterday, strong work and well deserved. Hard work pays off.


Time to get that Team SIG sponsorship, bro.

[Alma]

Are there pics of the new slide release, trigger, and takedown lever I can reference to see if my pistol has one or more of these upgrades? Also I'm assuming these are factory parts and a natural upgrade in the design? I'm a rookie with the 320 and just want to expand my knowledge of the design, thanks guys.

https://www.recoilsports.com/2015/12/new-features-of-the-sig-sauer-p320/

https://www.recoilsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/IMG_0502-e1450452109801.jpg

[Sam]

I'm crossing my fingers for a thumb safety that can be retrofitted to existing fire control groups at SHOT.

[UNK]

I ordered a large grip module for the Sig 320 carry in October.
Sig just informed me they wouldn't be able to fill my order because they never made a large for that model and they are going to switch over to the new style grip module which should be available in February.
Instead they are going to send the original style grip module for a full size 320 and I'm going to cut it down to fit the Carry model. This is a freebie.
They also are sending the new model slide release (freebie) and when it becomes available the new style grip module also. (Paid for with original order)
So first off this is some pretty great customer service in my opinion. Kudos to Sig.
The best part of this is I feel the 320 frame could benefit from a high cut on the front strap and maybe under the beavertail so I will have a free frame to experiment with.

[GMSweet]

I finally rented the P320 Compact yesterday and it felt pretty nice. Coming from my M&P with a safety, I failed to achieve slide lock on any of the strings due to my thumb working it's way over to the release lever. Even when I started the string by placing my thumb on top of my support thumb. Of course that is a shooter induced malfunction, but something I would need to train out of me if I switch. I seemed to shoot a bit left with the Sig compared to my M&P and it's possible the rear sight was slightly off center. The rental P320 had a single click with a nice reset. The two in the case for sale, a compact and a carry, both had double clicks. I only put a box of ammo through it due to range prices, but I could like it.

[Sam]

I ordered a large grip module for the Sig 320 carry in October.
Sig just informed me they wouldn't be able to fill my order because they never made a large for that model and they are going to switch over to the new style grip module which should be available in February.
Instead they are going to send the original style grip module for a full size 320 and I'm going to cut it down to fit the Carry model. This is a freebie.
They also are sending the new model slide release (freebie) and when it becomes available the new style grip module also. (Paid for with original order)
So first off this is some pretty great customer service in my opinion. Kudos to Sig.
The best part of this is I feel the 320 frame could benefit from a high cut on the front strap and maybe under the beavertail so I will have a free frame to experiment with.

The customer service rep yesterday was more than happy to take my credit card for two of the adverse triggers and two of the updated slide releases. Only one of the new triggers was in stock and he said the rest are backordered 3-5 weeks.

[UNK]

Also I should add I changed out the stock trigger for an Apex flat trigger right after I purchased because the stock trigger was eating up my index finger.

It should be noted that there is AMPLE room behind the Apex trigger to insert your index finger until the pistol is safely in the holster. This will have to do until
the Gadget is released for the Sig.

4986

[Alma]

I finally rented the P320 Compact yesterday and it felt pretty nice. Coming from my M&P with a safety, I failed to achieve slide lock on any of the strings due to my thumb working it's way over to the release lever. Even when I started the string by placing my thumb on top of my support thumb. Of course that is a shooter induced malfunction, but something I would need to train out of me if I switch. I seemed to shoot a bit left with the Sig compared to my M&P and it's possible the rear sight was slightly off center. The rental P320 had a single click with a nice reset. The two in the case for sale, a compact and a carry, both had double clicks. I only put a box of ammo through it due to range prices, but I could like it.

See the giant picture three posts above. You would be hard pressed to accidently hold down the new style slide lock on the new style grip module that shrouds said slide lock.

[Beat Trash]

Has anything changed on the new grip module other than the new style slide lock?

[Alma]

Has anything changed on the new grip module other than the new style slide lock?

Not yet...

[Mr_White]

It should be noted that there is AMPLE room behind the Apex trigger to insert your index finger until the pistol is safely in the holster. This will have to do until
the Gadget is released for the Sig.

4986

Babineaux method?

[GMSweet]

See the giant picture three posts above. You would be hard pressed to accidently hold down the new style slide lock on the new style grip module that shrouds said slide lock.

Knowing me, I'd find a way. :) One of the local stores has a whole Sig display so I'm hoping they are getting fresh inventory and parts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ubervic]

https://www.recoilsports.com/2015/12/new-features-of-the-sig-sauer-p320/

https://www.recoilsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/IMG_0502-e1450452109801.jpg

So very nice...that I now have no reason whatsoever not to add a P320 to my (tiny) arsenal.

[UNK]

Never heard of that. I just read up on it. I don't have any problem with the post being deleted if it presents a safety issue.

Babineaux method?

[Mr_White]

Never heard of that. I just read up on it. I don't have any problem with the post being deleted if it presents a safety issue.

I certainly wasn't suggesting anyone delete your post...

Mostly I was clarifying that I understood you correctly.

I guess for me, it brings to mind that what you seem to be trying to prevent with that procedure is ND via foreign matter in trigger guard. I think that has to be considered against the competing risk of putting your finger in the wrong place inside the trigger guard (in front of the trigger instead of behind it) when you don't want to fire. My gut says the second problem is worse, especially since I assume you have very strongly established the act of putting your finger on the face of the trigger. Not trying to tell you how it is going to work for you though.

I think the Babineaux method was discussed here (sorry no link handy) and people were mostly against it IIRC.

[PPGMD]

... "Superfit" process, which to my understanding, is welding up the rails and then hand lapping them, to get a nice, tight fit. I will never shoot to the capability of this pistol.

Honestly outside of Bianchi or bullseye guns that isn't needed. Out of the box most of the P320s I've seen are 2" at 25 yards guns.

Now if you are shooting Bianchi a fitted 320 is killer.

[SLG]

I have shot right about 100 rds through two 320's. 100 total. So, not enough rds to really add much to this conversation. I do think my experience with it may be of some interest though. I fired 5 rds for group with the first 320 I ever shot. This told me where it was hitting, how accurate it was, what the recoil was like, and how the trigger felt. I then shot 5 pressouts. This improved my understanding of the recoil and trigger reset. I then shot 2 FAST drills back to back. One was 4.5 or so, and the other was 4.7 or so.

So, I think the 320 is pretty shootable, just like most other duty guns:-) I'm sure with some dedicated practice, it could be shot really well, but I think it speaks well of the gun that it was that easy to shoot well, right off the bat. I may have the chance to really wear some 320's out, so if that happens, I'm looking forward to it.

[Drang]

I finally rented the P320 Compact yesterday and it felt pretty nice. Coming from my M&P with a safety, I failed to achieve slide lock on any of the strings due to my thumb working it's way over to the release lever. Even when I started the string by placing my thumb on top of my support thumb. Of course that is a shooter induced malfunction, but something I would need to train out of me if I switch. I seemed to shoot a bit left with the Sig compared to my M&P and it's possible the rear sight was slightly off center. The rental P320 had a single click with a nice reset. The two in the case for sale, a compact and a carry, both had double clicks. I only put a box of ammo through it due to range prices, but I could like it.
Interesting, I have tried several Sigs over the last year or two, and frequently have had issues with failure to achieve slide lock. Except with the 320. Rented a Full size a few weeks ago, and we purchased "his and hers" sub-compacts this past Tuesday, and no problem.
Ergonomics are (is?) a funny thing (things?) YMMV and all that.

[GJM]

I have shot right about 100 rds through two 320's. 100 total. So, not enough rds to really add much to this conversation. I do think my experience with it may be of some interest though. I fired 5 rds for group with the first 320 I ever shot. This told me where it was hitting, how accurate it was, what the recoil was like, and how the trigger felt. I then shot 5 pressouts. This improved my understanding of the recoil and trigger reset. I then shot 2 FAST drills back to back. One was 4.5 or so, and the other was 4.7 or so.

So, I think the 320 is pretty shootable, just like most other duty guns:-) I'm sure with some dedicated practice, it could be shot really well, but I think it speaks well of the gun that it was that easy to shoot well, right off the bat. I may have the chance to really wear some 320's out, so if that happens, I'm looking forward to it.

I like this -- the 100 round test.

Take it out if the box, dry fire some, shoot a five round group, and then figure out how well you can shoot it on some standardized tests. Reminds me of college -- how much could you learn about a girl on one date. I suspect it is largely an expectations game, and if you think you can accomplish a lot, you probably can.

[RJ]

I like this -- the 100 round test.

Take it out if the box, dry fire some, shoot a five round group, and then figure out how well you can shoot it on some standardized tests. Reminds me of college -- how much could you learn about a girl on one date. I suspect it is largely an expectations game, and if you think you can accomplish a lot, you probably can.

Follow on to this - I'm in the market for a new carry gun (maybe). I've been to the range to shot a couple rentals (G43, Shield) as well as a buddy's P2000SK Light LEM.

It would be interesting if the SMEs / experts could suggest a good 'test' or 'evaluation' course of fire that you could use on a new to you gun in oh, a box of ammo or 50 rounds.

I'm making this up, but:

10 rounds slow fire 3 yards warm up
10 rounds on a 3x5 at 7 yards
10 rounds of dot torture
5 rounds sho 7 yards
5 rounds who 7 yards
10 rounds 2h 25 yards on a B-8

Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SLG]

I like this -- the 100 round test.
... I suspect it is largely an expectations game, and if you think you can accomplish a lot, you probably can.

Are we talking about college dating, or shooting? :-) Similar fields of study.

[Gio]

Follow on to this - I'm in the market for a new carry gun (maybe). I've been to the range to shot a couple rentals (G43, Shield) as well as a buddy's P2000SK Light LEM.

It would be interesting if the SMEs / experts could suggest a good 'test' or 'evaluation' course of fire that you could use on a new to you gun in oh, a box of ammo or 50 rounds.

I'm making this up, but:

10 rounds slow fire 3 yards warm up
10 rounds on a 3x5 at 7 yards
10 rounds of dot torture
5 rounds sho 7 yards
5 rounds who 7 yards
10 rounds 2h 25 yards on a B-8

Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You need to incorporate more work under time pressure. I find that slow fire accuracy doesn't necessarily translate into actual performance at speed. For simplicity maybe some bill drills from 7 to 25 yds, Garcia dot drill, a bill drill onto a 3x5 card at 7, etc.

[PT Doc]

Honestly outside of Bianchi or bullseye guns that isn't needed. Out of the box most of the P320s I've seen are 2" at 25 yards guns.

Now if you are shooting Bianchi a fitted 320 is killer.
I appreciate the feedback. I did go back and forth on whether or not to have this done, for exactly why you stated. In the end, I just decided that I wanted to see how much you could get out of the pistol and I could. Disposable income is a wonderful thing. A fool and his money and all that.

[RJ]

You need to incorporate more work under time pressure. I find that slow fire accuracy doesn't necessarily translate into actual performance at speed. For simplicity maybe some bill drills from 7 to 25 yds, Garcia dot drill, a bill drill onto a 3x5 card at 7, etc.

Ok.

Could you pose a specific 50 round course of fire that could be used to evaluate a handgun?

[PPGMD]

Ok.

Could you pose a specific 50 round course of fire that could be used to evaluate a handgun?

I don't really think that you can really get a feel for a gun in 50 rounds.

For two reasons:
1. When you first start shooting a new gun often you have to fall back to your fundamentals, so often you will do better with a gun for the first couple hundred rounds.
2. Different guns have different NPA until you adjust for it. For example in a couple of weeks I shoot the Glock match at WAC, I will spend all week dry firing my Glocks to get used to their NPA, and then the week after that getting used to my SIG again for the Florida state match in Frostproof.

[BILLG]

Shoot the 90 round IDPA Classifer.

[Gio]

Ok.

Could you pose a specific 50 round course of fire that could be used to evaluate a handgun?

I agree with the posters above who say you can't get a good feel in 50 rounds. If I wanted a good 50 round test of anything though I'd do something similar to the following:

5 rounds slow fire bullseye @ 25 yds
5 rounds bench/rested fire @ 25 or 50 yds
2x bill drill at 7 yds (12 rounds)
1x bill drill at 15 yds (6 rounds)
2x bill drill at 25 yds (12 rounds)
2x 5 rounds in 5 seconds from holster or low ready @ 2" dot from 7 yds

You really can't compare your times and performance though in just 50-100 round sessions. It takes so much more time investment than that both dry fire and live fire to really figure it out. What you really need to evaluate in such a short range session is do the ergonomics work for you? I.e. can you reach the controls, do you accidentally drop mags or lock the slide open mid-shooting, can you get a firm enough grip to control the recoil, can mags drop free or are they trapped/pinched by your hands. You may or may not be able to gauge how accurate a pistol is in that 50-100 rounds depending on your skill level.

[11B10]

The P320 fire control system is a little unique among striker fired guns (or at least all the ones I have experience with) in that the sear is, in essence, self resetting or rather resets due to trigger overtravel. By that I mean that it doesn't require movement of the slide (and interaction between the slide and a connector/disconnector) for the sear to reset. Slide movement is required for the striker to be picked up by the sear, but the sear resets irrespective of slide motion. This is why you can do multiple trigger presses (albeit slightly lighter and different feeling after the first) in dry-fire with a P320.

The spongy secondary click you are experiencing after the sear releases the striker is the sear resetting. I've never been able to separate the sear tripping form the sear resetting except by bracing the rear of the trigger with the thumb of the other hand to prevent over travel. I guess what I'm saying is that due to the weight of the trigger, I lack the dexterity to stop as soon as the sear releases, instead when it does my finger basically crushes through the secondary sear-resetting click.

The way the P320 fire control mechanism works does open up the very slight possibility of preventing the striker from resetting (as you saw), but it requires you to either stop your finger exactly after the sear releases the striker but before the sear resets and hold it there through the entire recoil cycle, or for you to very quickly reset the trigger in recoil and start applying pressure to the trigger (which causes the sear to move downward) before the slide has returned to battery (which could cause the striker to not be picked up by the sear). I'm not sure how likely either of those scenarios are in real life. I've not shot a P320 at all, but I have studied the fire control mechanism fairly extensively (for reasons unrelated to enhancing or improving the trigger).

Whether or not this is something that can be adjusted or fixed, I have no idea. I think Bruce will be able to provide something more definitive, certainly better than anything I can say. He's the expert. :cool:

I can now exhale! Thanks to all here, especially Tom_JONES, for explaining these dry firing issues I've been having. Live fire with my 320C has been an absolute joy.

[PPGMD]

Well I said I was going to do it, but here is the video on the takedown safety system, for those wondering how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlxRPaeHy4c

[JAD]

As far as tests go, I like to run the Rangemaster Core Skills test (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?247-Rangemaster-Tom-Givens-Handgun-Core-Skills-Test) every time I go to a range where it's possible. I then track my results with various guns, which I think gives me a pretty realistic comparison of how well /I/ shoot those guns. I think it's a very well weighted test, specifically.

[Drang]

Things I Did Not Realize About the Sig P320:

The Full, Carry, and Compact sizes all come with a Medium Grip, but Subcompacts come with a Small.
The Small size Subcompact has no rail, but the Medium size subcompact comes with or without.


Things I Want To Know About The Sig P320:

If the P250 models in .22LR and .380 ACP are successful will they make them for the 320?
Do they make a large grip for the subcompact? Can't find one listed anywhere, not sure if that means they don't exist or just that they're not in stock.
How well so the X-Frame magazine well adapters work? Worth it for three more rounds?


BTW, Top Gun Supply can get an in-stock grip from Ohio to Washington State in less than a week, the week before Christmas.
However, I seem to have snagged the last one.

[Drang]

Things I Want To Know About The Sig P320:

Any consensus on defensive rounds for the subcompact 9?

[Texaspoff]

Any consensus on defensive rounds for the subcompact 9?

I run 124 +p GD's in all my 9mm, including subcompacts.

TXPO

[JBP55]

I run 124 +p GD's in all my 9mm, including subcompacts.

TXPO

I agree with using the same ammunition in all pistols of the same caliber.

[SLG]

...
2. Different guns have different NPA until you adjust for it. For example in a couple of weeks I shoot the Glock match at WAC, I will spend all week dry firing my Glocks to get used to their NPA, and then the week after that getting used to my SIG again for the Florida state match in Frostproof.

I thought you shot for Sig? How can you shoot a Glock match?

[agksimon]

I Had a P320, a PPQ9 and several VP9's as well as 9mm Glocks. I still have 9mm Glocks , VP9's and a VP40.

What didn't you like about the PPQ9 or the P320?

[UNK]

I guess this has changed but at one time I heard they were only going to make the subcompact frame in small....as I recall because of concealment issues. It didn't make any sense to me when I heard it. I'm surprised they offer the medium. I wonder if the new improved grip frame module is going to be offered in all sizes and for all models.
I wish they would do a single stack in all sizes. I think this platform in single stack would overwhelm everything else out there.
I also wish CT would get on board.

[Appalachained]

The 320 will be my next pistol. I have to buy one since I own one example of all the other striker fired polymers (XD,M&P, PPQ, VP9 etc..). Out of the ones I own besides Glock I like the PPQ the best. I went to Bud's last week to rent one , but they didn't have one at the range counter. I did get to fondle and dry fire one. The one I tried had a great feeling trigger, but I couldn't feel a reset at all. Do the 320s not have a discernible reset?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JBP55]

What didn't you like about the PPQ9 or the P320?

Nothing wrong with them, I just preferred the Glocks and VP pistols and decided to reduce the pistol types and purchase more magazines and ammunition.

[Drang]

BTW, Top Gun Supply can get an in-stock grip from Ohio to Washington State in less than a week, the week before Christmas.
However, I seem to have snagged the last one.

Also, it will arrive at the USPS distribution facility in My Little Slice Of Suburbia, maybe three miles from my house, and then float around MLSOS for over 24 hours before being delivered. :mad:

Also also, Brownells got me five additional magazines a day faster than they said they would.

Furthermore, I made a stop at Sportsman's Warehouse here in MLSOS, and the only calibers in short supply are .22LR (still), and... 9mm Parabellum/Luger/NATO. I snagged the last bulk bx (Blazer Brass) and 4 boxes (half of their stock) of 124gr GDs.

[PPGMD]

I thought you shot for Sig? How can you shoot a Glock match?

As long as we doesn't distract us from the primary focus of Team SIG and is something required for the event (like taking a S&W revolver to the Revolver nationals, or a Beretta shotgun for a shotgun match) I was told they don't mind.

[Indy5000]

In the same vein of testing and evaluating my P320, how many rounds of range ammo and my Federal 124 grain HST should I run through it without issue to call it good to carry?

[Kennydale]

Test fired the P320 and a VP9 Except for the P320 Sub Compact (Too small for me). I'd like either one added to my gunsafe.

[Biggy]

In the same vein of testing and evaluating my P320, how many rounds of range ammo and my Federal 124 grain HST should I run through it without issue to call it good to carry?

This is a quote from DocGKR from a thread from the ammunition section of this forum : Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to carrying it. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use. With the price of top tier carry ammo being what it is, this would not be cheap to do, but he is right. For me 200rds is the minimum.

[qwiksdraw]

This is a quote from DocGKR from a thread from the ammunition section of this forum : Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to carrying it. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use. With the price of top tier carry ammo being what it is, this would not be cheap to do, but he is right. For me 200rds is the minimum.

I am sure you are not including bad ammo or user induced malfunctions in this count.

[Appalachained]

In the same vein of testing and evaluating my P320, how many rounds of range ammo and my Federal 124 grain HST should I run through it without issue to call it good to carry?

I would be comfortable with 500 rounds of mixed FMJ of different weights including Tula which I never buy. Then shoot about 150-250 rounds of the HP I'll be carrying in it. Then purposely try to limp wrist it, do a few mag dumps as fast as I can go. Ready.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

Here is the Hawaii Sheriff / DPS test protocol which resulted in the adoption of the P320

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1507298406207980?view=permalink&id=1656501031287716

[HCM]

Looks like that's a post in a closed group (i.e., I can't view it).

I'll see if I can copy it when I get to a real computer.

[incogneato]

Looks like that's a post in a closed group (i.e., I can't view it).

I can't vouch for authenticity of the article, but this is the post:
Interesting test results from the Hawaii Sheriff's office:

DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
ADMINISTRATIVE DIVISION
TRAINING AND STAFF DEVELOPMENT

DUTY FIREARM
SELECTION INFORMATION PACKET

JULY 2015
DEVELOPED BY: (JUN/2015) , Firearms Training Unit, TSD

APPROVED BY: (JUN/2015) Branch Administrator, TSD

Test &
Evaluation

Test & Evaluation (T&E)
DPS conducted a comparative evaluation following specific T&E procedures and protocols. The T&E assessed firearm performance of four (4) models (see T&E Results), testing features and function to obtain quantitative and qualitative data relevant to reliability, accuracy, ease of operation, safety, care and maintenance, and costs.
The T&E provided the opportunity for invaluable End User input and validation at the officer level. 103 officers or approximately 6% of the uniformed staff, including 66 ACO’s, actively participated in 18 days of live fire testing. End Users fired over 40,000 rounds in five tables of fire, testing all aspects of firearm function and features.

Department End User Data
Male – 83.5% (86) Female – 16.5% (17)
Average Experience: 14 years
Average Height: 5’9 ½” Average Weight: 210
Left Handedness: 18% (19) Right Handedness: 82% (84)
Average Hand Size: 8.01” Average Reach: 6.34”

Department Requirements
The Departments Firearms Training Unit (FTU) relied upon a 2013 National Institute of Justice study that revealed 92% of reporting law enforcement and corrections agencies employed “striker fired,” “double action only” pistols. The primary factor behind the transition to this type of firearm as the predominant pistol in Law Enforcement is due to initial purchase price, reliability, durability, availability of parts, ease of use and maintenance.
As a result, the FTU contacted Beretta, Colt, Glock USA, FN America, Heckler & Koch (HK), Kimber, Strum Ruger, Sig Sauer, Smith & Wesson, and Springfield Armory for information and proposals for a T&E of this type of firearm. Only Glock, FN, HK, Sig Sauer, S&W and Springfield Armory responded. However, FN, Sig Sauer, and Glock submitted proposals that met the cost requirement of $450.00 or less per unit.
Considering all the information provided by manufacturers and in an attempt to manage T&E costs the following four handguns were selected as possible duty handgun replacements: FNS 9 and FNS 9C, Glock Model 17 & Model 19, Sig Sauer Model P320 Full size and Compact, and the Smith & Wesson Model M&P9 and Model M&P9 Compact.

Acceptance of Specialized Test Documentation
The FTU accepted manufacturer documentation of Specialized Test results, these tests comply with industry standards for Law Enforcement firearms and ensure minimum safety features and reliability during standard and abusive handling.
§ NIJ Standard-0112.03 Auto loading Pistols for Police Officers (11/98) Revision A: This is an equipment standard developed by the Office of Law Enforcement Standards of the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
§ ANSI/SAAMI 299.5 – 1996. American National Standard Voluntary
Industry Performances Standard Criteria for Evaluation of New Firearms Designs Under Conditions of Abusive Mishandling for Use of Commercial Manufacturers.

§ ANSI / SAAMI Z299.3-1993. Voluntary Industry Performance Standards for Pressure and Velocity of Centerfire Pistol and Revolver Ammunition for the Use of Commercial Manufacturers.
§ American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) Testing Standards for Corrosion and Wear - MIL STD 810 tests. Data reported from either test was acceptable.
ú Test Method 503.5 Temperature Shock
ú Test Method 504.1 Contamination by Fluids
ú Test Method 506.5 Rain
ú Test Method 507.5 Humidity
ú Test Method 509.5 Salt Fog
ú Test Method 510.5 Sand and Dust
ú Test Method 512.5 Immersion
Test Criteria
Department Armorers, Firearms Instructors and End Users conducted a comparative evaluation of the sample weapons provided by FN, Glock, Sig Sauer and Smith & Wesson against the following criteria.
§ Function and Features
ú Safety Features ú Grip Angle & Comfort
ú Ambidextrous Controls ú Accessibility of Controls
ú Sights ú Trigger Reach & Reset
ú Point of Impact Point of Aim ú Perceived Recoil Accuracy
ú Loading / Unloading
ú One Handed Shooting

§ Reliability Testing
§ Accuracy and Dispersion Testing
§ Adverse Conditions
ú No Cleaning or Lubrication
ú Sand / Dirt
ú Water Immersion (5 Minutes)
§ Low Light
§ Reparability
§ Ease of Care and Maintenance
§ Ergonomics (Subjective)
ú Design
ú Ease of Operation and Use
ú Access and Efficiency of Controls
ú Trigger Efficiency
ú Perceived Recoil
ú Assembly/Disassembly
§ Attitudes (ease of operation a differing angles)
§ Cost per unit with manufacturer trade-in allowance and incentives

Live Fire testing of all four handguns began on March 17, 2015; however, the FNS-9 and FNS-9C
were removed from the test due to numerous malfunctions, stoppages, and safety concerns.

At the conclusion of the T&E, the data clearly depicted the Sig Sauer P320 was the best firearm for
the Department and our officers.

Safety Features
As previously stated, the Department identified the need for an essential safety feature that prohibited “pulling” the trigger to disassemble the firearm for cleaning and preferred a firearm that did not require a special tool to disassemble.
With officer safety being the most critical factor of selection, the Sig P320 stood above the other firearms with a “Take Down Safety system” that:
§ Prohibits takedown without magazine removal (removing the source of ammunition) and the slide locked to the rear (ejecting the chambered round).
§ Allows disassembly without tools or trigger manipulation by simply pushing the slide forward and off the frame once the magazine is removed and the slide is locked back.
§ Reassembly is prohibited if a magazine is seated in the magazine well, again removing the potential for a round to be accidentally chambered.

Reliability
The Sig P320 proved to be the most reliable of the four firearms tested, being the only firearm that did not experience a malfunction or stoppage; firing 10,639 rounds without cleaning or lubrication during the entire test.

Accuracy
The Sig P320 scored higher in both the Bench Accuracy Test and the End User
Accuracy tests with an average 1.53” spread for the Bench Test and 3.06” spread for End Users. The End User accuracy was 0.97” tighter than the next closest firearm, this clearly depicts the minimal recoil and ability to acquire the same sight picture, slight alignment and trigger control.
Full Size Bench Accuracy Avg.: Avg. End User Accuracy:
FNH FNS 9 1.60” 3.44”
Glock 17 1.71” 4.03”
Sig Sauer P320 1.53” 3.06”
S&W MP9 2.42” 4.28”

Again, the Sig P320 proved to outperform during the Sand / Dirt Test. This test was conducted using local material found on the Koko Head Range. Each firearm had 7 grams of sand / dirt placed directly in the slide, barrel and magazine well and after working the action 3 times, three (3) rounds were fired. If the firearm functioned, 3 additional grams of dirt was added and the above procedure repeated. If the firearm continued to function, Sand/Dirt mixture would be added in 1 gram increments and fired till all firearms malfunctioned or one emerged as clearly superior.
The Sig P320 outperformed both the Glock and the M&P9 in the test, continuing to fire after the addition of 16 grams of Sand/Dirt. The Glock malfunctioned at 11 grams and the M&P9 malfunctioned at 7 grams.

The Water Immersion Test Immediately followed the Sand / Dirt test. The test consisted of submerging the firearm still caked with sand/dirt in water for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, the firearm was removed and without cleaning, drying off or any other measures and was immediately fired 10 times.
The Sig P320 and the Glock both functioned but the M&P9 failed to fire after the second round, an immediate action drill was executed yet the M&P9 continued to malfunction with each of the next three attempts to fire.

At the conclusion of the Immersion test, 1.5 pounds of sand/dirt was added to the water to create a mud slurry mixture. The firearms were then submerged in the mud slurry and agitated for 30 seconds. The Sig P320 was the only fire
more than 3 rounds upon removal. The Glock fired 2 rounds before
malfunctioning and the M&P9 was only able to fire 1 round prior to
malfunctioning.

On May 5th the procurement process began with the submission of a sole source request to the State Procurement Office (SPO).

On June 15th, the SPO denied the sole source request by stating that the Sig P320 safety features were not sufficient to prove the
need for a sole source justification. Although highly disappointed with the misguided SPO decision, the FTU rapidly submitted a
restricted specification exemption request but unfortunately, that too was denied.

On June 16th, the FTU completed a third rewrite of the contract requesting an “Invitation for Bid” open source full competition for
the Sig Sauer P320 or equal listing the specific safety features deemed crucial for officer safety by the Department as essential features.

On June 29th the sealed bids were opened and the Department initiated a contract for the Sig P320 as originally sought.
The Department also initiated the procurement of 1230 cases of transition training ammunition, which affords each uniformed
officer 550 rounds for transition training and qualification, including a percentage for remediation. The ammunition selected was
Sig Sauer Elite Performance Ammuntion, which permits the use of less expensive 115 grain FMJ rounds for training because of
the similar muzzle velocity and trajectory of the 124 grain JHP used for duty.

In addition to the P320 and Sig ammunition contracts, the Department is purchasing new holsters and magazine pouches.
The Safariland ALS/ SLS Level III Holster is the improved version of the Safariland SLS currently issued to both Divisions.
The 6360 ALS/SLS holster offers superior firearm retention and protects the officer from “gun grabs” if attacked.
Again, officer safety is paramount.

[JHC]

I can't vouch for authenticity of the article, but this is the post:
Interesting test results from the Hawaii Sheriff's office:

DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
ADMINISTRATIVE DIVISION
TRAINING AND STAFF DEVELOPMENT

DUTY FIREARM
SELECTION INFORMATION PACKET

JULY 2015
DEVELOPED BY: (JUN/2015) , Firearms Training Unit, TSD

APPROVED BY: (JUN/2015) Branch Administrator, TSD

Test &
Evaluation

Test & Evaluation (T&E)
DPS conducted a comparative evaluation following specific T&E procedures and protocols. The T&E assessed firearm performance of four (4) models (see T&E Results), testing features and function to obtain quantitative and qualitative data relevant to reliability, accuracy, ease of operation, safety, care and maintenance, and costs.
The T&E provided the opportunity for invaluable End User input and validation at the officer level. 103 officers or approximately 6% of the uniformed staff, including 66 ACO’s, actively participated in 18 days of live fire testing. End Users fired over 40,000 rounds in five tables of fire, testing all aspects of firearm function and features.

Department End User Data
Male – 83.5% (86) Female – 16.5% (17)
Average Experience: 14 years
Average Height: 5’9 ½” Average Weight: 210
Left Handedness: 18% (19) Right Handedness: 82% (84)
Average Hand Size: 8.01” Average Reach: 6.34”

Department Requirements
The Departments Firearms Training Unit (FTU) relied upon a 2013 National Institute of Justice study that revealed 92% of reporting law enforcement and corrections agencies employed “striker fired,” “double action only” pistols. The primary factor behind the transition to this type of firearm as the predominant pistol in Law Enforcement is due to initial purchase price, reliability, durability, availability of parts, ease of use and maintenance.
As a result, the FTU contacted Beretta, Colt, Glock USA, FN America, Heckler & Koch (HK), Kimber, Strum Ruger, Sig Sauer, Smith & Wesson, and Springfield Armory for information and proposals for a T&E of this type of firearm. Only Glock, FN, HK, Sig Sauer, S&W and Springfield Armory responded. However, FN, Sig Sauer, and Glock submitted proposals that met the cost requirement of $450.00 or less per unit.
Considering all the information provided by manufacturers and in an attempt to manage T&E costs the following four handguns were selected as possible duty handgun replacements: FNS 9 and FNS 9C, Glock Model 17 & Model 19, Sig Sauer Model P320 Full size and Compact, and the Smith & Wesson Model M&P9 and Model M&P9 Compact.

Acceptance of Specialized Test Documentation
The FTU accepted manufacturer documentation of Specialized Test results, these tests comply with industry standards for Law Enforcement firearms and ensure minimum safety features and reliability during standard and abusive handling.
§ NIJ Standard-0112.03 Auto loading Pistols for Police Officers (11/98) Revision A: This is an equipment standard developed by the Office of Law Enforcement Standards of the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
§ ANSI/SAAMI 299.5 – 1996. American National Standard Voluntary
Industry Performances Standard Criteria for Evaluation of New Firearms Designs Under Conditions of Abusive Mishandling for Use of Commercial Manufacturers.

§ ANSI / SAAMI Z299.3-1993. Voluntary Industry Performance Standards for Pressure and Velocity of Centerfire Pistol and Revolver Ammunition for the Use of Commercial Manufacturers.
§ American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) Testing Standards for Corrosion and Wear - MIL STD 810 tests. Data reported from either test was acceptable.
ú Test Method 503.5 Temperature Shock
ú Test Method 504.1 Contamination by Fluids
ú Test Method 506.5 Rain
ú Test Method 507.5 Humidity
ú Test Method 509.5 Salt Fog
ú Test Method 510.5 Sand and Dust
ú Test Method 512.5 Immersion
Test Criteria
Department Armorers, Firearms Instructors and End Users conducted a comparative evaluation of the sample weapons provided by FN, Glock, Sig Sauer and Smith & Wesson against the following criteria.
§ Function and Features
ú Safety Features ú Grip Angle & Comfort
ú Ambidextrous Controls ú Accessibility of Controls
ú Sights ú Trigger Reach & Reset
ú Point of Impact Point of Aim ú Perceived Recoil Accuracy
ú Loading / Unloading
ú One Handed Shooting

§ Reliability Testing
§ Accuracy and Dispersion Testing
§ Adverse Conditions
ú No Cleaning or Lubrication
ú Sand / Dirt
ú Water Immersion (5 Minutes)
§ Low Light
§ Reparability
§ Ease of Care and Maintenance
§ Ergonomics (Subjective)
ú Design
ú Ease of Operation and Use
ú Access and Efficiency of Controls
ú Trigger Efficiency
ú Perceived Recoil
ú Assembly/Disassembly
§ Attitudes (ease of operation a differing angles)
§ Cost per unit with manufacturer trade-in allowance and incentives

Live Fire testing of all four handguns began on March 17, 2015; however, the FNS-9 and FNS-9C
were removed from the test due to numerous malfunctions, stoppages, and safety concerns.

At the conclusion of the T&E, the data clearly depicted the Sig Sauer P320 was the best firearm for
the Department and our officers.

Safety Features
As previously stated, the Department identified the need for an essential safety feature that prohibited “pulling” the trigger to disassemble the firearm for cleaning and preferred a firearm that did not require a special tool to disassemble.
With officer safety being the most critical factor of selection, the Sig P320 stood above the other firearms with a “Take Down Safety system” that:
§ Prohibits takedown without magazine removal (removing the source of ammunition) and the slide locked to the rear (ejecting the chambered round).
§ Allows disassembly without tools or trigger manipulation by simply pushing the slide forward and off the frame once the magazine is removed and the slide is locked back.
§ Reassembly is prohibited if a magazine is seated in the magazine well, again removing the potential for a round to be accidentally chambered.

Reliability
The Sig P320 proved to be the most reliable of the four firearms tested, being the only firearm that did not experience a malfunction or stoppage; firing 10,639 rounds without cleaning or lubrication during the entire test.

Accuracy
The Sig P320 scored higher in both the Bench Accuracy Test and the End User
Accuracy tests with an average 1.53” spread for the Bench Test and 3.06” spread for End Users. The End User accuracy was 0.97” tighter than the next closest firearm, this clearly depicts the minimal recoil and ability to acquire the same sight picture, slight alignment and trigger control.
Full Size Bench Accuracy Avg.: Avg. End User Accuracy:
FNH FNS 9 1.60” 3.44”
Glock 17 1.71” 4.03”
Sig Sauer P320 1.53” 3.06”
S&W MP9 2.42” 4.28”

Again, the Sig P320 proved to outperform during the Sand / Dirt Test. This test was conducted using local material found on the Koko Head Range. Each firearm had 7 grams of sand / dirt placed directly in the slide, barrel and magazine well and after working the action 3 times, three (3) rounds were fired. If the firearm functioned, 3 additional grams of dirt was added and the above procedure repeated. If the firearm continued to function, Sand/Dirt mixture would be added in 1 gram increments and fired till all firearms malfunctioned or one emerged as clearly superior.
The Sig P320 outperformed both the Glock and the M&P9 in the test, continuing to fire after the addition of 16 grams of Sand/Dirt. The Glock malfunctioned at 11 grams and the M&P9 malfunctioned at 7 grams.

The Water Immersion Test Immediately followed the Sand / Dirt test. The test consisted of submerging the firearm still caked with sand/dirt in water for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, the firearm was removed and without cleaning, drying off or any other measures and was immediately fired 10 times.
The Sig P320 and the Glock both functioned but the M&P9 failed to fire after the second round, an immediate action drill was executed yet the M&P9 continued to malfunction with each of the next three attempts to fire.

At the conclusion of the Immersion test, 1.5 pounds of sand/dirt was added to the water to create a mud slurry mixture. The firearms were then submerged in the mud slurry and agitated for 30 seconds. The Sig P320 was the only fire
more than 3 rounds upon removal. The Glock fired 2 rounds before
malfunctioning and the M&P9 was only able to fire 1 round prior to
malfunctioning.

On May 5th the procurement process began with the submission of a sole source request to the State Procurement Office (SPO).

On June 15th, the SPO denied the sole source request by stating that the Sig P320 safety features were not sufficient to prove the
need for a sole source justification. Although highly disappointed with the misguided SPO decision, the FTU rapidly submitted a
restricted specification exemption request but unfortunately, that too was denied.

On June 16th, the FTU completed a third rewrite of the contract requesting an “Invitation for Bid” open source full competition for
the Sig Sauer P320 or equal listing the specific safety features deemed crucial for officer safety by the Department as essential features.

On June 29th the sealed bids were opened and the Department initiated a contract for the Sig P320 as originally sought.
The Department also initiated the procurement of 1230 cases of transition training ammunition, which affords each uniformed
officer 550 rounds for transition training and qualification, including a percentage for remediation. The ammunition selected was
Sig Sauer Elite Performance Ammuntion, which permits the use of less expensive 115 grain FMJ rounds for training because of
the similar muzzle velocity and trajectory of the 124 grain JHP used for duty.

In addition to the P320 and Sig ammunition contracts, the Department is purchasing new holsters and magazine pouches.
The Safariland ALS/ SLS Level III Holster is the improved version of the Safariland SLS currently issued to both Divisions.
The 6360 ALS/SLS holster offers superior firearm retention and protects the officer from “gun grabs” if attacked.
Again, officer safety is paramount.

Interesting read. There were posts in the "DPS Chooses the 320" that seemed to indicate the VP9 outperformed the 320 but was not chosen. This indicates the VP9 wasn't even tested due to not being submitted.

[PPGMD]

Interesting read. There were posts in the "DPS Chooses the 320" that seemed to indicate the VP9 outperformed the 320 but was not chosen. This indicates the VP9 wasn't even tested due to not being submitted.

There are always people who will say their pet pistol only failed due to cost or some other criteria than performance.

Take the M9 contract even with the details published in the web there are people who think that the 92F won simply because it cost less.

[HCM]

Interesting read. There were posts in the "DPS Chooses the 320" that seemed to indicate the VP9 outperformed the 320 but was not chosen. This indicates the VP9 wasn't even tested due to not being submitted.

You are confusing the Texas DPS with the Hawaii DPS.

The VP-9 was one of three guns including the 320 and G17 Gen 4 which passed / met the standards for the Texas DPS testing. My understanding is Texas DPS will begin issuing the P320 to the first recruit class of 2016.

[JHC]

You are confusing the Texas DPS with the Hawaii DPS.

The VP-9 was one of three guns including the 320 and G17 Gen 4 which passed / met the standards for the Texas DPS testing. My understanding is Texas DPS will begin issuing the P320 to the first recruit class of 2016.

I sure did!

[John Hearne]

I realize it is propaganda but listen carefully to the way the P320 is being sold. This is the kind of pitch that melts the heart of admin and lawyers. Skip to 1:48.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAK9iS7rqhQ

[MGW]

Hell, that video made me want to run out and buy one.

[Kennydale]

I have only shot ten rounds out of each configuration. I like the Full Size and Carry configuration a lot (Glock Fanboy talking) the only one that didn't feel comfortable was in the Sub Compact.

[Sammy1]

I realize it doesn't apply to everyone but for a Dept. armorer the P320 is a dream. One serial number assigned to the Officer no matter what the assignment. Rotating Detective here is your SC kit, Swat go back to FS, street crimes swap out to compact. For me I can use my FS for IDPA and swap it out to SC for CCW during the week. Now if Mec Gar would start making some affordable mags I'd be all set.

[OhioFinance]

I realize it doesn't apply to everyone but for a Dept. armorer the P320 is a dream. One serial number assigned to the Officer no matter what the assignment. Rotating Detective here is your SC kit, Swat go back to FS, street crimes swap out to compact. For me I can use my FS for IDPA and swap it out to SC for CCW during the week. Now if Mec Gar would start making some affordable mags I'd be all set.

I seem to recall from some place that Sig doesn't authorize third parties to make magazines until after a set number of years. So we might have a bit longer of a wait. They could also drop the X-change kits so what your suggesting makes more sense, because as of right now I can buy a new gun for about 35 dollars more than just the kit.

[PPGMD]

I seem to recall from some place that Sig doesn't authorize third parties to make magazines until after a set number of years. So we might have a bit longer of a wait. They could also drop the X-change kits so what your suggesting makes more sense, because as of right now I can buy a new gun for about 35 dollars more than just the kit.

I'd be willing to bet that as part of the contract that Mec Gar is likely limited from producing after market magazines for it. I am also willing to bet that such a contract is normal for the industry, you don't see Mec Gar making after market magazines for the M&P or any of the newer pistols that they are they were launched with as the magazine manufacturer.

[Sammy1]

I seem to recall from some place that Sig doesn't authorize third parties to make magazines until after a set number of years. So we might have a bit longer of a wait. They could also drop the X-change kits so what your suggesting makes more sense, because as of right now I can buy a new gun for about 35 dollars more than just the kit.

I know what you mean. I can get the exchange kit for $319 but add in two extra mags (which I'd get with a new gun) and the price is getting close to a new firearm from glock or S&W.

[OhioFinance]

Last p320c i bought was $430. So its not even close as most kits are 379-399 that Ive seen.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

[GMSweet]

I'm in. I picked up a 320F last night that had the new slide lock, TDL, and trigger. Cleaned , lubed, and then fouled at lunch today. The first 170 rounds are down the pipe without a hitch or failure to lock back. Now I need to figure out my holster selection and what to use that 20% coupon for. I'm thinking a P320C conversion kit might be the ticket.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[Sasage]

Are they going to be seen in any updates to the P 320 at SHOT Show?

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[Sammy1]

I'm in. I picked up a 320F last night that had the new slide lock, TDL, and trigger. Cleaned , lubed, and then fouled at lunch today. The first 170 rounds are down the pipe without a hitch or failure to lock back. Now I need to figure out my holster selection and what to use that 20% coupon for. I'm thinking a P320C conversion kit might be the ticket.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

Can you post a pic of the slide lock.

[GMSweet]

I'll grab some different angles when I have a chance, but it looks like the one in post 132 of this thread. There were a mixture of samples in the three different gun stores I checked. Some were full "old style" with the old trigger, TDL, frame and slide lock. Some had the new TDL, but the old everything else, and some had the new parts but the old frame. The store I picked this up at received the 320F and an FDE 320C in the same shipment; the 320C had the old components. It doesn't appear to be something they have control over. I'm wondering if Sig will phase out the old style bits completely.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sammy1]

Disregard, I went to #132. It looks nice. I wonder if the slide lock/release was in response to the FBI requirement?

[farscott]

I received a P320C for Christmas, and I have been enjoying it as a range toy. There are many things about the design that impress me, such as the modular design and the flexibility that entails. It is amazing to take the entire action out of the grip module and see how it all works. The shooting has been pleasant, and I have found nothing about the gun that is an annoyance or hassle other than the ammo is gone all too soon. I did put an Apex trigger into mine, and I was pleasantly surprised at both the ease of the installation and how it made my shooting more consistent. My trigger press is more uniform and the results of that show up on the targets. Not sure I would not have gotten there with the factory trigger, but the Apex unit made it easy.

If people get behind this design to the extent of the M&P and Glock, it will do very well. I do not think that will happen until there are some high-profile LE agency adoptions. Right now, there have not been enough agency adopters, and spare magazines and other parts are not prevalent in brick and mortar stores. Other than that, I have no issues. I am looking forward to third-party grip modules and take-down levers, among other things.

[OhioFinance]

I'll grab some different angles when I have a chance, but it looks like the one in post 132 of this thread. There were a mixture of samples in the three different gun stores I checked. Some were full "old style" with the old trigger, TDL, frame and slide lock. Some had the new TDL, but the old everything else, and some had the new parts but the old frame. The store I picked this up at received the 320F and an FDE 320C in the same shipment; the 320C had the old components. It doesn't appear to be something they have control over. I'm wondering if Sig will phase out the old style bits completely.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Can you post a pic of the "new" frame? Thanks in advance.

[Clusterfrack]

https://www.recoilsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/IMG_0502-e1450452109801-1024x662.jpg

[45dotACP]

Got to mess around with a 320 at the LGS today...Very nice trigger and I would almost describe it as "1911 like" but like a 1911, it absolutely needs a thumb safety for me to be comfortable stuffing it into a holster in my pants.

[evi1joe]

Did anyone ever answer this question from page 9:
"Will [the] new "thingy" [related to the chassis, and debuting at SHOT 2016] be an easy retrofit for existing pistols?"

I want to get a P320, but have no problem waiting 2 months if they're going to change things that can't be retrofitted (though almost ALL the P320s I saw today at the gunshow had the old-style TDL, which looks like a good place to rest the support thumb to me).

[Alma]

Are they going to be seen in any updates to the P 320 at SHOT Show?

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

An impressive aftermarket drop-in competition trigger job will be formally announced. I am waiting as well to see what SIG itself will announce.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Are the .45ACP mid size gun available yet?

[pblanc]

Both the compact and carry models of the P320 .45 ACP are available. Both have the same (compact) sized slide and barrel. The carry model comes with a full-size grip module and magazines and the compact comes with the shorter compact grip module and magazines.

[OhioFinance]

https://www.recoilsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/IMG_0502-e1450452109801-1024x662.jpg

As far as I can tell, just the TDL and slide stop are different, right? Is the frame or grip module different?

[Drang]

What I find frustrating is that (as far as I can tell) the caliber conversion kits all seem to come with more parts than you need.
If I want to add the ability .40 and/or .357 to my 9mm 320, I have to buy a kit that includes barrel, slide, magazine, recoil spring assembly, and a grip module.
Do the .357 Sig and .40 use different slides and recoil spring assemblys?
And granted that the grip module is relatively cheap, why can't I use the one I already have?

[Clusterfrack]

As far as I can tell, just the TDL and slide stop are different, right? Is the frame or grip module different?

Yes, I believe that's all that is different. Note the updated fence around the new slide stop lever.

[GMSweet]

From what I can tell, Sig has provided a new trigger (adverse trigger), a new flat take down lever, the reduced slide stop, and the new frame shown above. The old slide stop won't fit on the new style frame and I haven't been able to find out if Sig is phasing out the old frames and slide stops. There is a potential for an original slide lock owner to order a frame or conversion kit down the road and find out they need the new style slide stop. I'm also reading that some folks have a #8F/#8R sight combo and others like me have the #6F/#8R combo.

I've dry firing like crazy and really enjoying the 320. I'm still getting used to the Siglites since the front blade doesn't line up at the top edge when the 3 dots are lined up. When the lighting conditions blackout the sights, I'm sort of guessing the offset. I'll run them for a while longer and then make a decision. My first attempt at hi-viz'ing the front came out horribly, but I'll try again.


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[El Cid]

Anyone else hearing rumblings about an aluminum frame option for the 320's?

[orionz06]

Saw a new frame, looked pretty killer.

http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12400876_1663603943912382_9093548601297154867_n.jp g?oh=b1d2a8e4556f8faeff3fe446434d88e8&oe=57477B8F


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[Clusterfrack]

Do standard 320 mags fit in that gripframe?

[LOKNLOD]

Saw a new frame, looked pretty killer.

http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12400876_1663603943912382_9093548601297154867_n.jp g?oh=b1d2a8e4556f8faeff3fe446434d88e8&oe=57477B8F



Man that looks really Glocky.

[orionz06]

Man that looks really Glocky.

Without the grooves too, that's got me interested for sure. Especially if I can get a few and chop of cheap grip modules to suit.


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[DpdG]

Is that Glock-ish frame one you saw in person? If not, I'd be very cautious that it could be a photoshop melding of a gen2 Glock and the P320. Something about the texture looks...odd. Also, I don't think the grip angle would allow for the factory mag to work at its original angle to maintain OE functionality. Finally, the mag floorplate would have to be changed as well...

[HCM]

This is another pic floating around of a prototype for the P320 competition. It doesn't appear as "Glockish" as the other photo.

5543

[DpdG]

I found more photos at Osage County. http://www.osagecountyguns.com/blog/news/sig-sauer/shot-2016-sig-range-day/

It appears to be the "P320 Target 5". Factory grip module, not aftermarket.

[GMSweet]

For me, that frame is a pile of ewwww. I wish my eyes could unsee it! However, RX model with the RMR on it looks nice and I have to think they enjoyed the pun in naming that. Also interesting to see Kyle Lamb moving to Team Sig along with Lena Miculek.


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[farscott]

Is the new slide stop by itself available for purchase? If so, does anyone know the part number and which vendors have stock?

My P320 has the older, larger slide stop, so a new slide stop will be needed to use some of the new grip modules with the smaller fence around the slide stop. I am getting tempted to buy another P320 with the new parts as I like the modularity inherent in the P320 design, and I suspect that will be the easiest way to get the newer parts.

[GMSweet]

Is the new slide stop by itself available for purchase? If so, does anyone know the part number and which vendors have? .

I've only read about them being available directly from Sig Customer Service.


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[SteveB]

Flat take-down levers are back in stock through SIG customer service; part number is 1300777-R.

[DpdG]

Well looks like I have to eat a bit of crow then, if a mentally impaired poodle can change FCU parts inside two minutes, I guess my dumb behind should be able to. It looks like the reduced/forward leaning slide-stop has already hit the market as well, under P/N 1300891-R. I found a thread on GlockTalk of all places detailing it: http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/new-sig-p320-slide-catch-lever.1600609/


P/N for new slide-stop above

[JHC]

Is that Glock-ish frame one you saw in person? If not, I'd be very cautious that it could be a photoshop melding of a gen2 Glock and the P320. Something about the texture looks...odd. Also, I don't think the grip angle would allow for the factory mag to work at its original angle to maintain OE functionality. Finally, the mag floorplate would have to be changed as well...

I saw that pic on a FB page and one of the poster's friends at SHOT said he shot that pistol yesterday. And said is was pretty frakkin' phenomenal.

[LOKNLOD]

Without the grooves too, that's got me interested for sure. Especially if I can get a few and chop of cheap grip modules to suit.


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First impression was that it would allow a higher grip but drawing a visual line with the rail, top of trigger guard, back to the beavertail (not a huge fan of those, honestly) looks like that may just be an illusion.

[orionz06]

Looks more C-Zed with a Glock texture and magwell.


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[MGW]

That's what I thought. The beavertail looks really excessive but not unusual for a Sig I guess.


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[Sam]

Is the new slide stop by itself available for purchase? If so, does anyone know the part number and which vendors have stock?

My P320 has the older, larger slide stop, so a new slide stop will be needed to use some of the new grip modules with the smaller fence around the slide stop. I am getting tempted to buy another P320 with the new parts as I like the modularity inherent in the P320 design, and I suspect that will be the easiest way to get the newer parts.

I ordered from sig directly.

[UNK]

Did you see the actual frames in the photo or have knowledge that this is not a photoshopped pic?


Saw a new frame, looked pretty killer.

http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12400876_1663603943912382_9093548601297154867_n.jp g?oh=b1d2a8e4556f8faeff3fe446434d88e8&oe=57477B8F


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[11B10]

Are the .45ACP mid size gun available yet?



I bought my 320C/.45 ACP from Bud's November 20th.

[OhioFinance]

Did you see the actual frames in the photo or have knowledge that this is not a photoshopped pic?

Check the pics on the Osage link, its legit. The pistol is on display at SHOT.

[OkieHeat]

OK, Please wait about a month. ��

-Bruce
OK Bruce, Sig has my attention again with this new grip when will they be available??

[Surf]

It is good that the new frame design is addressing issues that we have been attempting to manually fix on the current frames.

- Higher undercut beavertail allowing the hand to get higher.
- Looks to have a shorter trigger reach, but would need to see the "girth" of the grip.
- Removal of the finger ledge on the side of the grip
- Greater undercut of the trigger guard
- Looks to have a better designed magwell
- Looks to have more "rake" to the grip angle.

I have not handled or seen one in person but I would like a view down into the magwell and a view of the opposite side to see the mag release button. Also the entire frame, not just the grip area looks to be a bit closer to the slide, which is good. Not sure that I am liking the ledge just under the slide stop. Now if the new slide stop is there and the trigger guard clearances are correct with an improved trigger shoe, it would be a definite good factory improvement in a relatively short period of time, for Sig Sauer. I would need to handle one, but overall, looks like a shooter designed the frame as opposed to an engineer. At least it doesn't look like I will have to get into the aftermarket business to make a good frame for the pistol. ;)

[UNK]

The replaceable grip module has far more worth than I originally anticipated.

[SteveB]

Listed as the P320 Target 5 inch:

5548

[taadski]

Listed as the P320 Target 5 inch:

5548


I thought the slide in that first photo looked a skosh longer. Interesting...

[Sam]

Hopefully this thumb safety isn't vaporware and will fit on already owned FCUs.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160119/0078900322507d334ea9c8f39dfc1e7d.jpg

[Edwin]

The new frame almost looks like a Jericho 941.

[45dotACP]

Hopefully this thumb safety isn't vaporware and will fit on already owned FCUs.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160119/0078900322507d334ea9c8f39dfc1e7d.jpg

Assuming it works...

DO WANT!

[Mike C]

Tom, any estimation on the release date for the manual safety model? TIA.

[Surf]

Hey Tom, didn't make it to SHOT this year so if you're going back to the booth, I am also curious if the frame is fully compatible with current FCU and slides? I have been so busy on my end, I am a bit out of touch with what's what.

Gonna have to get my hands on one.

[JodyH]

Here are some pictures of the P320 Target magwell and the basepad on the magazine:
5555

Those magazine base pads suck for indexing your finger along the front of the magazine.

[MAP]

Those magazine base pads suck for indexing your finger along the front of the magazine.

The rep referred to them as "FBI" baseplates.

Mike

[GRV]

The rep referred to them as "FBI" baseplates.

Mike

Thanks for confirming. After seeing them I immediately figured it was to meet C.4.3.i in the RFP. This is a requirement.

In general, I'm wondering if any of the other frame changes came from their involvement in the RFP. I don't think there are any others that reflect mandatory changes per the written guidelines....but the grip is obviously nodding at the G17, and represents a pretty radical departure from the vanilla P320 grip in my opinion. I can't help but wonder if part of that is to win the hearts of the FBI, who have been developing experience with the Glock geometry for years now.

I'm curious if we'll see this frame in the "duty" versions of the P320 as well. I'm pretty stoked about it to be honest. I wish they'd add that flat trigger to the non-target versions as well. Minus any issues about bore height, when I first saw a picture unlabeled, it looked to me like someone made a "fixed" G17 via modding or cloning the P320. I was pretty shocked to hear it was a SIG OEM variant.

[SteveB]

Those magazine base pads suck for indexing your finger along the front of the magazine.

Maybe 10-8 will fix them like they did for the M&P.

[jondoe297]

My initial (and limited) experience with the P320 has been positive. I'm not ready to rush out and do a Glock-to-SIG swap yet though.

[PPGMD]

Those magazine base pads suck for indexing your finger along the front of the magazine.

It is compatible with the aftermarket base pads.

I took both my production extended base pad, and my Limited extended base pads from Springer Precision, and they went in fine, and the production base pad even locked back the slide. The limited won't lock back on any P320 due to using a grams follower intended for another gun.

[Serpico1985]

With the carry frame I see no need for a fullsize frame. Pardon me, grip insert.

http://i66.tinypic.com/sfe5c4.jpg

[JSGlock34]

I haven't been too interested in the P320, but that target frame has my attention.

[JSGlock34]

Hey Tom, didn't make it to SHOT this year so if you're going back to the booth, I am also curious if the frame is fully compatible with current FCU and slides? I have been so busy on my end, I am a bit out of touch with what's what.

Gonna have to get my hands on one.

Not Tom, but SIGforum (http://www.sigforum.com) has a good SHOT show write up and some further information on the 320 Target. Apparently the 320 Target FCU is not compatible with other 320 pistols.

SIGforum 2016: Day One from the Floor (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/8870024693)

But it also comes with a new and unique trigger group, and different sear location that is not compatible with any previous permutation of P320. The promise of the P320 system was that all the parts would interchange, you could pull this trigger group (the gun itself, in fact as it’s the serialized portion) in that grip frame, etc. But the only thing on the “P320 Target” that works with other P320s is the new grip frame. It looks like a P320 on the outside, but it’s hard for me to make the case that it’s still a P320. If the interchangeable FCU is the heart/soul/essence of the P320, then this gun doesn’t have one.

[Clusterfrack]

That sucks about lack of interchangeability. The Bruce Gray trigger system that should be coming soon may be a better option.

[Steven T]

I read a post on Facebook (so hardly solid info) that p320 competition displayed was a prototype and would have interchangeability with the standard P320 when released.
As stated I have no idea if that is accurate, but it was also stated that they were looking at cleaning up the sight dovetail/mounting and a few other minor changes. I haven't been able to find the post again to re read and see who posted it.

[JSGlock34]

Apparently the author of the SIGForum thread has time scheduled today to interview some of the SIG executives. He intends to ask about the P320 Target compatibility...stay tuned.

[GJM]

I'm sure he'll likely get better info than I can. PF apparently doesn't carry as much weight, so no meetings with executives for me. :)

Did you try telling them you are the Gadget Guy and proud owner of soon?

[JSGlock34]

I'm sure he'll likely get better info than I can. PF apparently doesn't carry as much weight, so no meetings with executives for me. :)

Well, not all executives are "detail oriented"...

5571

[MGW]

With the carry frame I see no need for a fullsize frame. Pardon me, grip insert.

http://i66.tinypic.com/sfe5c4.jpg

Did you buy a full size first and then buy a carry frame?


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