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EMC
12-10-2015, 02:30 PM
I have been reading up on the early use of red dot sights in the 1970's Son Tay raid. They were looking for a sight to increase hit potential in the dark and found a commercial off the shelf sight called the "single-point". It had no lense that allowed light in and simply had an illuminated aiming reticle against a black background. The concept was to use binocular vision with both eyes open and the brain then superimposes the dot onto the target.

It's my understanding that modern aimpoints and trijicon ACOGs can be used in the same manner with a front scope cap.

My question is, given the close range limitations of this method, has it ever been used in pistols? I wonder if you could tape the lense of a pistol rds and see if the concept works the same.
Shumba
12-10-2015, 03:02 PM
The Armson Occluded Eye Gunsight. Colonel Simon's guys secured it to the carry handles with electrical tape IIRC. Field expedient solutions!
It was odd but it worked. I tested one on a shotgun and found the lack of binocular vision due to the shift in focus to be irritating.
Now we have RMR/T1 and just look through the sight and press.
"What a fascinating modern world we live in." Jack Aubrey
Shumba
LSP972
12-10-2015, 03:15 PM
Armson invented it; Weaver later built it under license and marketed it as the "Weaver Single Point". Their version was a bit less cluttered in exterior appearance, and had a shiny black anodized finish.

I had one back in the day, mounted on an 870 for kicks. It was really odd and took some getting used to, but it worked.

.
Sal Picante
12-10-2015, 03:21 PM
Just putting this here for reference:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBARqaSfpco

I shoot like this - I just leave the 4x or 6X in place and use reticle superimposed. It is almost easier with the 6X since the magnified image is just too muddled to make sense of.
Shumba
12-10-2015, 03:23 PM
Armson invented it; Weaver later built it under license and marketed it as the "Weaver Single Point". Their version was a bit less cluttered in exterior appearance, and had a shiny black anodized finish.

I had one back in the day, mounted on an 870 for kicks. It was really odd and took some getting used to, but it worked.

.
Mine was marked " ARMSON OEG, South Africa " also on an 870.
A great big orange dot, but it did work.
Shumba
EMC
12-10-2015, 03:59 PM
I wonder if the application of this method is limited to a long gun type form factor since I would assume you have to have the aiming dot fairly close to your eyes to benefit from the binocular vision, rather than at arms length like on a pistol.
Luke
12-10-2015, 04:11 PM
Soooooo... Instead of buying a aimpoint I can take a toilet paper roll and put tape over it and put a red dot in the middle and go to town?
Mr_White
12-10-2015, 04:12 PM
Soooooo... Instead of buying a aimpoint I can take a toilet paper roll and put tape over it and put a red dot in the middle and go to town?

I love this post!
JAD
12-10-2015, 04:14 PM
We stuck one on a Smith 41 back in the day. Those of us who could use it on a rifle (3 of the 5 of us in my little group of buddies) could also get good hits at distance with the pistol.

Sign of the times that the 41 was the only pistol in the group capable of mounting optics.
EMC
12-10-2015, 04:15 PM
Soooooo... Instead of buying a aimpoint I can take a toilet paper roll and put tape over it and put a red dot in the middle and go to town?
I like where this is going. You could call it the FESP. The field expedient sh!$ paper gunsight.
Luke
12-10-2015, 04:29 PM
I'm doing this tonight and will shoot it tomorrow. Only Daniel defense in town with a poo paper optic. 14827K hour battery life too.
Sal Picante
12-10-2015, 05:37 PM
Soooooo... Instead of buying a aimpoint I can take a toilet paper roll and put tape over it and put a red dot in the middle and go to town?

What do you think this is? The Doodie Project?
Sal Picante
12-10-2015, 05:40 PM
Soooooo... Instead of buying a aimpoint I can take a toilet paper roll and put tape over it and put a red dot in the middle and go to town?

All kidding aside - the occlusion was just to prove that you can do it. It is easier/less confusing to shoot with it on 1x, since you do see so much more.
But having it on 6x isn't a deal breaker for me since the occlusion principles works out...

For a pistol, I think the current trend of RDS make occlusion unconvincing.
YVK
12-10-2015, 05:57 PM
EMC, FWIW, even with rifles there could be a considerable shift of POI with an occluded eye technique. This thing is very dependent on shooter's vision.
TR675
12-10-2015, 06:04 PM
I had bad POI shift when using an aimpoint with the lens cover down. 6" plus at 50 yards if I recall.
EMC
12-10-2015, 06:10 PM
EMC, FWIW, even with rifles there could be a considerable shift of POI with an occluded eye technique. This thing is very dependent on shooter's vision.
Yes it seems the variables involved are the spacing between the eyes, amount of head tilt, the individuals vision, and the distance. In one article I read it said the usefulness is limited to 25 yards and under.

This one had some pictures of the POI change at various distances.

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/occluded-eye-aiming/
TiroFijo
12-10-2015, 07:04 PM
Yes it seems the variables involved are the spacing between the eyes, amount of head tilt, the individuals vision, and the distance. In one article I read it said the usefulness is limited to 25 yards and under.

This one had some pictures of the POI change at various distances.

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/occluded-eye-aiming/

I tried this a couple of times, and the POI shift was about the same, perhaps a little larger. Not for me.
P.E. Kelley
12-13-2015, 03:39 PM
Just putting this here for reference:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBARqaSfpco

I shoot like this - I just leave the 4x or 6X in place and use reticle superimposed. It is almost easier with the 6X since the magnified image is just too muddled to make sense of.

Funny thing about that video. I am standing just outside of camera (cameraman is Pete Brown) and since I know Taran I suggested the tape on the front of the lens (after I made sure he could do it)
I shot the same drill as Taran right after him "on camera" just for fun.
IronArcher
01-03-2016, 12:05 AM
Honestly, I was doing something quite similar 15 years ago.
I have a .22 for rabbit hunting with a red dot on it. As you can imagine, the red dot is impossible to see on a sunny day pointing at snow.
My red to came with an attachable lens that had 2 pieces of polarized material inside so you could dial in the amount of light transmission you wanted.
On a sunny day, I adjusted that lens to allow zero light though the scope (just like duct taping the front) and it worked amazingly well.
Good enough to hit habit size targets at 25 yards....on the move (well, the targets were moving, not me) :)