San Bernadino County SO Mini-14s

[Lon]

I've never seen so many Mini-14s in an LE incident. Seemed like every other Deputy had one. Just curious if anyone knows the story there.

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[GJM]

Obviously they saw them in use during the Paris attack, and wanted to keep up with the French.

[John Hearne]

Better than a harsh word.....

[Dagga Boy]

They have had a patrol rifle program since the 80's with the mini-14's. Back in the day, their armorers were very adept at keeping them running. Not the latest and greatest, but as noted....there are a ton of them out there and the deputies are very familiar with them.

[Lon]

They have had a patrol rifle program since the 80's with the mini-14's. Back in the day, their armorers were very adept at keeping them running. Not the latest and greatest, but as noted....there are a ton of them out there and the deputies are very familiar with them.

Figured it was something like that. Thanks.

[jnc36rcpd]

Not especially helpful, but very entertaining responses, GJM and John Hearne. As I recall, the first service rifle I ever fired was a Mini-14 at an IALEFI regional back in the day. John Zamrock was the instructor. The weapon was certainly not optimal, but I'd prefer a Mini-14 over no rifle at all.

[ST911]

A hodgepodge of Mini variants in those (and other) photos. Interesting.

[Cowtown44]

Because they don't look like an evil "assault" rifle.

[Hauptmann]

Not my first choice. However, I ran a M1 Carbine for a while and it served me well. When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

[Dagga Boy]

There are not a lot of places that have a 30 year history on a single patrol rifle system. SBSO is a large agency with a very large reserve component and super diverse policing mission (one of the most diverse in the country) and is physically the latest county in the country. Sticking with something that they know works, know how to teach and train and meets their needs is a good thing. They are likely in better shape with a less than optimal gun but with long term and consistent training.

[Trooper224]

My agency first issued the Mini-14 as a patrol rifle back in the 80's. That was for everyone, from the superintedent on down. In that sense we were out on the far edge of the curve compared to most agencies. We stuck with them until eight years ago, when we switched to the Colt LE6920. It was never optimal, but we had rifles when most didn't and it was a damned sight better than nothing.

[farscott]

Is it an artifact/trick of the picture or is the stock of the 870 resting on the deputy's collarbone in the first picture?

[Hambo]

They have had a patrol rifle program since the 80's with the mini-14's. Back in the day, their armorers were very adept at keeping them running. Not the latest and greatest, but as noted....there are a ton of them out there and the deputies are very familiar with them.

In the '80s there wasn't the plethora of AR configurations, optics, and other AR doo-dads there is now, so the Mini-14 didn't seem like a less than optimal choice. Also: patrol carbines in the 1980s! We were still trying to get privately owned carbines approved for use in 2004. Admin didn't even want to think about buying and issuing them.

[secondstoryguy]

The A-team called...they want their rifles back! I saw the Mini-14s my first thought was that they were using them because they look less evil than AR variants.

[Robinson]

I know Ruger has made some improvements to the Mini-14 series in recent years but I've never owned one. Is there a major shortcoming these rifles still have that causes negative comments, or is it just that better options are available?

[JodyH]

Mini 14's suffer from mediocre accuracy (especially when they get hot after a couple of mag dumps), long term durability problems and the only consistently reliable magazines are factory 20 rounders.
For a general issue patrol rifle that's probably only shot twice a year for quals, none of those are a big deal.

[TGS]

Smoke'em if ya got'em.

I wouldn't hesitate to grab a Mini-14 if I didn't have an AR15 available. It's still a generally reliable semi-auto .223 rifle.

[Lon]

With the availability of better options, especially through the DRMO program, I was curious what the reason for the widespread use of the Mini-14 was. I imagined it was something along the lines of what nyeti posted - they've been using them for years and are for some reason "married" to that weapon.

I think we all agree there are better options out there now. Back in the 80's, maybe not so much. I'm just surprised they haven't transitioned to a better platform, though. I wonder if their firearms guys back in the 80's were former military who loved the M14 vs. the AR?

[ST911]

I've been a factory cert'ed Ruger armorer, maintained a batch of them, carried a few on patrol, and took them to some multi-day, 1k rd+ classes. I still help with a few here and there and see them in training occasionally. The sum of my experience, applicable to the pre-580 (newest variant) series:

The Mini-14 is pretty reliable but not durable. Best reliability is with stainless steel guns, copious amounts of lube, 20rd OEM mags, using quality domestically produced .223 SAAMI spec ammo. Where there are problems, it's usually one or more deviations from this. Firing pins go between 2500-5000rds, extractors about that time as well. Other small parts here and there. Gas block screws should be checked often. Mechanical accuracy is "accurate enough" for its intended purposes, and certainly exceeds the ability of most shooters. A good shooter can produce some interesting deviations with hot barrels in some guns.

When the above advice is heeded, I expect most Minis to go ~200-300 rds at a stretch, which will get most folks through a LE training rotation or TD1 of a sleep-away class. If the gun isn't PM'ed thereafter, all bets are off.

The manner of firing seems to make a difference, but not with enough consistency for intelligent comment. I suspect it's stacking tolerances. Hard firing, rough ammo, and burning lube, along with a bolt that has no real smooth transitions in its travel make the gun what it is.

Several mods have helped dedicated users of the Mini get the most out of their guns.

Shortening the barrel leaves less length in play ahead of the gas block. When shortened to 16", I found that group sizes typically decreased by 1/4 to 1/3 with less variability when heated up as well. Feedback from the field drove the heavier profile and 16" options currently available from the factory.

After shortening the barrel, installation of a GB type sight was popular. This was best done by true smiths to ensure the sight was top dead center. Many a canted sight were seen in the field due to WECSOG.

There were various barrel stiffening attachments on the market as well. Usually a rod or weight attached to the barrel ahead of the gas block to stiffen the barrel. Group sizes decreased about the same, but the ones I played with would move.

Removal and reinstallation of the gas block and screws for even torque is also thought to help. I don't know how much so by itself, but cumulatively with the above it seems to work.

A shorter stock, along with a shorter barrel, made for a very handy and fast handling carbine. The OEM stock is simply too long, and is much like running an A1 or A2 length on an AR.

Polishing and breaking the edges of the bolt lugs was also popular and seems to help wonky guns. Wonky guns that went back to Ruger often came back so tweaked.

Other aftermarket efforts included stronger firing pins, FP recess chamfering, harder extractors. Some of these, other stuff from the custom houses working Minis, and the above were integrated in the new 580 series, which makes it a better choice in the line than its predecessor models.

In the right hands, with the right PM, and with the right armorer watching the fleet, the Mini isn't unserviceable. It is what it is though.

[Beat Trash]

I would rather see a large agency like SBSO have ample amounts of mini 14's that everyone is trained with it and during an incident like they encountered, be able to have large numbers of long guns are available to the first responders, than an agency issuing an AR platform but having limited numbers of guns available.

While the Mini 14 is far from my first choice for an agency Patrol Rifle program issued weapon, it beats nothing but a buck shot loaded shotgun.

[Dagga Boy]

St911 and Beat Trash...both excellent posts.

If I remember correctly, SBSO was heavily involved in the changes and improvements to the Mini 14 over the years. Again, for what most police agencies do with rifles, they are an acceptable choice. From a training standpoint, they are a simple gun to train folks on. For typical LE qualification courses, they are okay. A lot of cheap 55 grain LE training ammo works in the Mini. It is not what I would buy first today, but I do not know if flushing 30 years if experience down the toilet would be worth it. Also, seeing what kind of craptastic "just as good as" AR's many places buy....they make a new Mini-14 look pretty good. Especially if we are talking dollar to dollar.

[Tabasco]

The Sheriffs Dept. in my county issues them, apparently they are easier to train your average deputy on as opposed to the AR platform.

[Peally]

Because they don't look like an evil "assault" rifle.

Would have been my first thought being the political hell hole it is. I'd imagine keeping the "friendly looking" guns you've had for a looong time beats trying to get something better yet more evil looking both from a logistics and political standpoint.

[Lon]

In the right hands, with the right PM, and with the right armorer watching the fleet, the Mini isn't unserviceable. It is what it is though.

That is a lot of "ifs", so to speak.

Excellent post, Beat Trash. Agree 100%.

[Dagga Boy]

Would have been my first thought being the political hell hole it is. I'd imagine keeping the "friendly looking" guns you've had for a looong time beats trying to get something better yet more evil looking both from a logistics and political standpoint.

SBSO has never been much concerned with what liberals think about them. It is not a PC issue. They also make extensive use of DRMO. I always got the impression it was a size and training issue. It is really easy to say "we'll just transition to AR's". Figuring out how to resident deputies from places like Trona, Big Bear, and Needles to the academy for three straight days and having their areas policed is a big issue. Also, when you have tons of spare parts and expertise, again it is a huge logistical revamp. Then add what to do with training a huge reserve force. Keep in mind, for most cops the patrol rifle is a thing they check out or is in their car. They are not on gun forums. The Mini is a simple and easy to teach gun and has served many places well for a lot of years. The specialized details at SBSO use other stuff.


That is a lot of "ifs", so to speak.

Excellent post, Beat Trash. Agree 100%.

They have those "ifs" well covered.

Trust me, the total gun nerds at SBSO get that the mini-14 is not a high speed low drag system. They are an acceptable system for most of the users and their abilities or needs. Of course, and DPMS with a magazine in backwards or a Bushmaster with a backwards E/O tech would be much better.

[Peally]

SBSO has never been much concerned with what liberals think about them. It is not a PC issue.

That is good to hear.

[KevinB]

Never been a Mini fan -- one thing I noticed as some of the tv coverage went on - was a few of the deputies who had been using some sort of buttstock (cheekpad/mag or spare round) pouch - most prevalent was the female deputy on the right in Lon's picture #2 (or a similar in appearance female deputy) - and after while it had slipped over the trigger guard when the weapon remained slung.
I'm hoping it got noticed in an internal AAR, for if they needed the weapon in a hurry it wasn't happening.

[psalms144.1]

Also: patrol carbines in the 1980s! We were still trying to get privately owned carbines approved for use in 2004. Admin didn't even want to think about buying and issuing them.We STILL don't have carbines for general issue in my agency. Long guns are limited to one or two short-barreled Mossberg 500s per office, and a SMALL handful of MP5s in the field. Sigh...

[Beat Trash]

We STILL don't have carbines for general issue in my agency. Long guns are limited to one or two short-barreled Mossberg 500s per office, and a SMALL handful of MP5s in the field. Sigh...

Now would be a good time to bring the topic up to your command staff. "What if our first responding officers were faced with a true active shooter incident?"

[Al T.]

I wouldn't hesitate to grab a Mini-14 if I didn't have an AR15 available. It's still a generally reliable semi-auto .223 rifle.

Agree. I'm impressed with the trigger finger discipline myself.

[JBP55]

Local PD issues G34/G35 pistols and Mini 14's were in use here until approximately 2005. Another local City issues G34 pistols and Mini 14's.

[LSP972]

Another local City issues G34 pistols and Mini 14's.

Which city is that? Dinky Springs?

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[JBP55]

Which city is that? Dinky Springs?

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Correct, the lead member of the FTU who is a P O S T Firearms Instructor and a member of LPSO SWAT likes them.

[Chuck Haggard]

While agreeing that the Mini is found lacking when compared to any quality AR, think about how different things like the North Hollywood fight would have gone if the responding officers had Mini14s in their cars.

Platt sure did a lot of damage in the FBI/Miami fight with a pistol grip Mini.

[heyscooter]

Obviously they saw them in use during the Paris attack, and wanted to keep up with the French.


If they wanted to keep up with the French they would've drop tested them first.


Goodnight folks!

EDIT: okay but serious post, when I first saw them I honestly thought that it was a similar scenario that occurred with the LA shootout where they had cops show up at local gunstores and start "procuring" rifles that they needed, but then I realized that this was the same area that should've learned from that at the onset, so I guess I assumed they were all rolling around with ARs. A little bit of research showed me that was not the case.