Bob Vogel shoots the Ohio police qualification

[HopetonBrown]

With his duty Glock and ammo. Except he cuts the time in half and increases the distance by 500%.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py1WSRpcl6E

[Lomshek]

That target still looks better than most shooters (not just cops) can do at normal distance and full time!

[NETim]

1 out. Not much hope for that guy.

[Gray222]

Few years back i made sure to get my natural point of aim and shot my pd qual with my eyes closed. 97/100.

[Luke]

Few years back i made sure to get my natural point of aim and shot my pd qual with my eyes closed. 97/100.


If this is true that is hilarious!

[LSP552]

LSP972 and I have an old co-worker who shot a passing score on the LA POST qual with a wrist rocket.

[Gray222]

If this is true that is hilarious!

Only missed shots from the 25y and by miss i mean out of score zone

[Chuck Haggard]

The new Ohio qual is rather sad.


Is that Glock light on his gun?

[LSP552]

Is that Glock light on his gun?

Pretty sure I heard him say so at the beginning.

[Chuck Haggard]

Pretty sure I heard him say so at the beginning.

That's,,,, odd. I've never seen one of those hold up past a few rounds of live fire, and when they work they are by far the shittiest name brand light on the market.

[Trajan]

That's,,,, odd. I've never seen one of those hold up past a few rounds of live fire, and when they work they are by far the shittiest name brand light on the market.

Yep.

He even has one with all the components removed and filled with lead shot so it isn't a wml (illegal in Limited) for use in limited as a barrel weight.

[LSP972]

LSP972 and I have an old co-worker who shot a passing score on the LA POST qual with a wrist rocket.

And don't forget the time that Rick and I shot the "new" P.O.S.T. course- same one that Vic passed with the wrist rocket- blindfolded, using coaches to get us lined up on the target and nothing else. I passed, Rick missed it by two points.

For those of you thinking "Ah, just bored cops at work"… not this time. The blindfold stunt was videotaped, and we brought said video to the P.O.S.T. Council; "Look. See? This is ridiculously easy; you're not doing the cops any favors. We need to TIGHTEN standards, not loosen them." They politely thanked us, with no further comment.

The very next day, a thunderbolt from HQ struck, and Rick (the FTU boss at the time) was told to back off that business, it was non of his/our concern, and by the way... destroy the video tape.

.

[TiroFijo]

The new Ohio qual is rather sad.

That's exactly what I was thinking...

[BN]

The new Ohio qual is rather sad.

And still, people don't pass. :(

[BobM]

The new Ohio qual is rather sad.


Is that Glock light on his gun?

The sad thing is that it started out OK, but then the scoring area was enlarged and the par times were increased.

[Peally]

Glad to see him posting a video after a friggen year ;)

Police quals are always interesting to see, I like to run them at the range just for giggles to see how I can do.

[LSP552]

And don't forget the time that Rick and I shot the "new" P.O.S.T. course- same one that Vic passed with the wrist rocket- blindfolded, using coaches to get us lined up on the target and nothing else. I passed, Rick missed it by two points.

For those of you thinking "Ah, just bored cops at work"… not this time. The blindfold stunt was videotaped, and we brought said video to the P.O.S.T. Council; "Look. See? This is ridiculously easy; you're not doing the cops any favors. We need to TIGHTEN standards, not loosen them." They politely thanked us, with no further comment.

The very next day, a thunderbolt from HQ struck, and Rick (the FTU boss at the time) was told to back off that business, it was non of his/our concern, and by the way... destroy the video tape.

.

Yep, remember that very well. Sad but true.

[Beat Trash]

The new Ohio qual is rather sad.


Is that Glock light on his gun?

No, the new Ohio qual is VERY sad! The year OPOTA changed it to the current score, our range staff was explaining the new course. After explaining the last stage, I asked, "And...?" I was told, "And that's it."

I don't mean to take away from or sound like I'm belittling the video by Robert Vogel, but that video shows the skill level most non-shooting citizens assume LEO's posses. Whereas reality is much different. . .

Like other parts of American society, instead of holding people accountable, we dumb down the standards. We're sitting a bit north of 1,100 officers currently. With the new standards, OPOTA can point to my agency and say that the changes OPOTA implemented caused the percentages of officers who failed qualification the first time to go down. A few of us were doing some one and two handed point shooting, keeping the gun at belt or hip level. By shooting in this fashion, it is possible to pass the OPOTA qualification... Just saying!

[JBP55]

And don't forget the time that Rick and I shot the "new" P.O.S.T. course- same one that Vic passed with the wrist rocket- blindfolded, using coaches to get us lined up on the target and nothing else. I passed, Rick missed it by two points.

For those of you thinking "Ah, just bored cops at work"… not this time. The blindfold stunt was videotaped, and we brought said video to the P.O.S.T. Council; "Look. See? This is ridiculously easy; you're not doing the cops any favors. We need to TIGHTEN standards, not loosen them." They politely thanked us, with no further comment.

The very next day, a thunderbolt from HQ struck, and Rick (the FTU boss at the time) was told to back off that business, it was non of his/our concern, and by the way... destroy the video tape.

.

I have seen the 75' portion of the LA. P O S T Course shot and passed two non standard ways. This was done several years ago by E B R S O Instructors who formerly worked for B R P D as Instructors, S W A T, Shoot Team. One was at B R P D with me 43 years ago.
1.With eyes closed.
2. Holding the pistol upside down.
You know these old men well.

[psalms144.1]

So, if I have this correctly, the most challenging portion of the test is 50 FEET (just over 15 yards), two shots in EIGHT seconds? On that target, and people DON'T pass? Holy moley...

[Gray222]

So, if I have this correctly, the most challenging portion of the test is 50 FEET (just over 15 yards), two shots in EIGHT seconds? On that target, and people DON'T pass? Holy moley...

...we dont have time standards, hardest shot is from a BARRICADE at 25y...

[eyemahm]

...we dont have time standards, hardest shot is from a BARRICADE at 25y...
No time standards in this other northeast state either. Farthest shots at 50 ft.

A couple weeks ago, we gave 3 brand new shooters (never shot or held a pistol) 1-2 hours of instruction and they all shot it 100 percent clean with a 22. 90 percent required to qualify as an instructor.

[Gray222]

No time standards in this other northeast state either. Farthest shots at 50 ft.

A couple weeks ago, we gave 3 brand new shooters (never shot or held a pistol) 1-2 hours of instruction and they all shot it 100 percent clean with a 22. 90 percent required to qualify as an instructor.

If a person doesn't learn bad habits its moderately difficult for them to develop them on their own with proper instruction.

[Gio]

I do similar things on our qual course to make it more challenging. My favorite variations to shoot are 1 handed SHO or WHO for the entire 60 round course, or double the distance.

[Kyle Reese]

The new Ohio qual is rather sad.


Is that Glock light on his gun?

I'll wager there are people who can't pass it, even with remedial training.

[LSP972]

I have seen the 75' portion of the LA. P O S T Course shot and passed two non standard ways. This was done several years ago by E B R S O Instructors who formerly worked for B R P D as Instructors, S W A T, Shoot Team. One was at B R P D with me 43 years ago.
1.With eyes closed.
2. Holding the pistol upside down.
You know these old men well.

Indeed I do. One of them came up with the ingenious idea of using a Hi-Point C9 to shame no-shooters who want to blame their issue pistol for their dismal performance. Its a sometimes-effective strategy; I did it on occasion with a revolver, in the early days of our semi-auto transition, but the effect is not the same as with the POS trash gun.

On the one hand, reading about similar dumbing-down of standards in other parts of the country makes me glad that our little backwater state is not the only place doing it. On the other hand, it makes me sad to know that entire generations of non-shooting cops are being bred all over.

.

[Fly320s]

With his duty Glock and ammo. Except he cuts the time in half and increases the distance by 500%.

[/video]

Since it is Vogel, I thought he was going to shoot it with only his left hand, left eye, and right foot.

BTW, that is a 400% increase in range.

[NETim]

Vogel is a Gen II Cylon. That's the only reasonable explanation.

[TGS]

...we dont have time standards, hardest shot is from a BARRICADE at 25y...

What's your course of fire? You can PM me if more appropriate.

[Gray222]

What's your course of fire? You can PM me if more appropriate.

It's nonsense really, if you can shoot a 200 drill and score about an 80 you'll be able to ace the qual.

[Luke]

What's your course of fire? You can PM me if more appropriate.

I've wanted to start a "what's your qual" thread but have been scared too, seeing your post makes me feel I was right to hesitate to ask. Why is it so sensitive information?

[Warren Wilson]

I always wondered the same. I'll post Oklahoma's. I just have to find an electronic version or the motivation to type it out.

[tanner]

Here is a link to Michigan's. Shotgun and rifle included.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mcoles/Firearms_Standard_249947_7.pdf

[psalms144.1]

I've wanted to start a "what's your qual" thread but have been scared too, seeing your post makes me feel I was right to hesitate to ask. Why is it so sensitive information?For a lot of folks, ANY information about agency policies, practices, and procedures would be considered "Law Enforcement Sensitive," and as such, posting on a public website could expose the employee to discipline.

FWIW, my agency shoots the FLETC standard pistol qualification - which, I believe, is NOT posted on FLETC's public website (but it's probably floating around out in cyberspace somewhere).

[tanner]

The link I posted was from a google search. If that gets me in trouble with work I will truly be puzzled. :cool:

[TGS]

I've wanted to start a "what's your qual" thread but have been scared too, seeing your post makes me feel I was right to hesitate to ask. Why is it so sensitive information?

Exactly what psalms said.

People being private usually has little to do with secret squirrel stuff and more to do with running afoul of policies. Same reason I don't state my agency in any posts here, as that puts me on the hook for the social media policy.....the nature of my job places us at significant risk for criticism and we can't really get away with saying that it was a personal statement not on behalf of the USG.

FLETC was mentioned. They're particularly tough about it....pretty much everything is FOUO/LES/SBU. They have their own OPR which routinely search the interwebs for people divulging FOUO information, pictures of the campus or training, ect.

[MVS]

Here is a link to Michigan's. Shotgun and rifle included.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mcoles/Firearms_Standard_249947_7.pdf

Interesting, that is not the latest COF I have.

[dgg9]

Just 2 days ago I signed for a weekend class with Bob Vogel. I expect my instructors to be better than me Apparently sometimes exponentially better.

[Peally]

If you're better than people like Vogel you should be the one teaching the classes ;)

[dgg9]

If you're better than people like Vogel you should be the one teaching the classes ;)
0.0000% of that. I will say that there are so many classes here in 2Q16 that I'll certainly find out how much a period of total immersion improves you.

[tanner]

Interesting, that is not the latest COF I have.

My apologies. I didn't read it carefully, it isn't what we are using for the MCOLES course either.

[brooklynbacon]

The State of Florida one is listed on the FDLE website. You can google it, and it will come up. It's ridiculously easy..and people still have problems with it. The recruit one (you have to do, in order to pass the academy) is a little more challenging..they should go back to that one.

[runcible]

Reaching way back to the start of the thread - the Glock light is an interesting example of something wherein nearly no significant thought appears to have been put into it, yet interesting minutiae followed.

The bulb itself is the same pattern as a Mini Maglite - so one can "upgrade" a GTL by dropping in any of the (in relativity) high output LED aftermarket options; though that does nothing for the effective complete absence of recoil consideration in the design.

The switching is kind of groovy, and I wish the XC-1 was more like it, in some ways; the form factor of the GTL's would be appealing were it not for everything else about it.

They're so poorly put together as to be bizarre.

[GardoneVT]

And still, people don't pass. :(

I don't doubt this. I clock glacial 4.18 Bill Drills and range patrons think I'm a gun pharoah.

[breakingtime91]

I don't doubt this. I clock glacial 4.18 Bill Drills and range patrons think I'm a gun pharoah.

I think anything 3-4.2 is pretty decent honestly. Especially if your getting a decent sized group. Obviously less than 3 is great but 3-4.2 is where a lot of people who I consider good live.

[DocSabo40]

That's some impressive shooting.
Is Mr. Vogel still using a plain black rear/FO front on his duty Glock? Just curious more than anything.

[HopetonBrown]

That's some impressive shooting.
Is Mr. Vogel still using a plain black rear/FO front on his duty Glock? Just curious more than anything.
He's no longer LE.

[DocSabo40]

He's no longer LE.

Oh. Didn't know that. I suppose that was only a matter of time.

[HopetonBrown]

Oh. Didn't know that. I suppose that was only a matter of time.
Yeah. I don't know how much Ohio cops get paid, but he can make $7k per class, which if he only teaches 1 class a month is probably more than he makes as a LEO.

[Peally]

Cops don't make a whole lot all things considered. I'm surprised he stayed on as long as he did.