Snubbie Questions?

[Ga Shooter]

I was selling an old revolver to pay for a new snubbie carry gun. A guy put a down payment on mine. I have decided to purchase a S&W 642. Here are my questions:

1. Should I get it with the moon clip cuts already made? If I do does that make reloading with strips harder?

2. What have you found to be the best (concealable and fast) reload technique strips/speedloaders/moonclips?

Thanks for the help.

PS Weapon will be used primarily as a BUG but will be primary for when deep concealment is required.

[TGS]

I don't have any experience outside of the HKS speed loaders and Bianchi Speed-strips, so I can't give you much info. I didn't practice reloading with speed loaders much at all, while reliably and efficiently reloading a revolver mandates lots of practice. Thus, I didn't really see a huge advantage in speed loaders for me personally, because at the speed I could do it I would have either 1) Died in a gunfight from taking too long or 2) been doing it as a tactical/admin reload after the fight. Thus, given the bulkiness of a speed loader compared to the clothing I usually wear while concealing the 642 as a primary(meaning I wasn't dressing around the gun in the first place), I chose to just throw a speed strip in my pocket.

I had no grandeur about being able to reload a revolver efficiently in a fight, but figured it'd really suck if I fired all 5 rounds and the proverbial goons came back with more friends to find me and I was out of ammo.

Besides that, here's a very informative video by de Bethencourt about different speed-loaders:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSDAZLc5Jgg

[gringop]

Moon clips are great when you have dedicated holders for them. Moon clips bend like a reed in the wind when they are rattling around in a pocket. I run plain old HKS speedloaders.

Gringop

[Wheeler]

I was selling an old revolver to pay for a new snubbie carry gun. A guy put a down payment on mine. I have decided to purchase a S&W 642. Here are my questions:

1. Should I get it with the moon clip cuts already made? If I do does that make reloading with strips harder?

2. What have you found to be the best (concealable and fast) reload technique strips/speedloaders/moonclips?

Thanks for the help.

PS Weapon will be used primarily as a BUG but will be primary for when deep concealment is required.

I have found speed strips to be the most concealable. Regardless of whether my snub is my primary or secondary, I always carry one speed strip with four rounds. Yep, I said four, not five or six. Afer doing some research on de Bethencort's site and reading some of his articles, I rapidly came to the conclusion that four rounds in a speed strip makes more sense than five. It's very easy to load two at a time, that fifth round is sort of out by it's lonesome. A revolver with one round is fully loaded, but partially charged. I'd rather load four and get back into the fight if need be, rather than fumble trying to get that last round in a chamber.

Headhunter made a statement in an interview, (I'm paraphrasing), that he has changed his focus from a rapid reload to making the shots fired count, ie. accuracy and shot placement. Makes sense to me; make the reload an administrative function of topping the gun off rather than an emergency function of trying to make up for misses.

I've always considered a BUG as an Ace-in-the-hole. If I have a primary and my snub is a secondary, then my main focus for spare ammo will be for the primary. Thus we are back to the single speedstrip with only four rounds in the pocket. It doesn't take up much weight or space. If I carry my snub as a EDC/primary, I will carry another speedstrip in a different pocket, preferably on the same side.

Speedstrips are not anywhere near as fast as a speedloader. On the other hand they are quite a bit more concealable, not to mention they have very positive retention.

I don't have an answer regarding the moonclip cuts. I agree with gringop, they are better off in some sort of pouch or holder rather than a pocket.

I hope this helps,

Wheeler

[Little Creek]

Until recently I had used HKS speed loaders exclusively since 1973. I carried them in my LE career until be switched to pistols. I used them in PPC and IDPA. Recently I discovered S. L. Variant. IMHO the S. L. Variant is more better at only 4 times the cost. As far as carrying a 5 shot spead loader in a pocket, I trust the SLV more than the HKS. I have turned the HKS knokb before I was ready. I have also had the HKS know get turned in a pocket and release the rounds in the pocket. I bought a SLV for my J-frame and a second one for my N-frame 44 mag./45 Auto Rim. They both work great. I just have to make sure the grips are ground away so they do not hinder the repid reload. I will probably buy a 5-Star speed loader for the J-frame, just to try. I am tempted to get my J-frame cut for moon clips.

Jeff Cooper once said that you carry a second magazine for your pistol to reload after the fight in case you get into another fight. He said one magazine, he was talking about an 8 shot 1911, should be more than enough to get you through the fight. A J-frame is no 1911. A J-frame may go in your pocket when you leave everything else at home or in the car.

[TNWNGR]

Much of my LE career was spent with revolvers and Safariland Speed loaders, Speed Strips figured in the equation as well. Having a set of handgun stocks (grips) that are designed to provide clearance for speed loaders is your first concern. Learning to properly dump spent shell casings effectively in one smooth stroke is another as the method is more critical with snubbie’s.
Now, to the crux of the question of secondary reloads, I consider a slightly chamfered cylinder for speed loader reloading as the best overall set up. You have a bit more leeway in alignment of the bullets and the reloading drill is smoother. I generally found one speed loader and a speed strip were what I carried on me most often when I carried a S&W M-60 as a BUG/ODG.

[Matt C.]

I must be in the minority.
I've been carrying moon clipped revolvers for ten years without incident. Most damage with moon clips occur when loading/unloading with pliers or otherwise improper tool.

[Chuck Haggard]

I have also found moon clips fragile and a PITA to carry.

SL Variant and Jetloaders work much better IMHO. I typically carry strips though, with my primary being a strip with four rounds. Attending Headhunter's snub class made me a believer in that TTP


Check this out;

http://www.snubtraining.com/

[Al T.]

It's very easy to load two at a time, that fifth round is sort of out by it's lonesome. A revolver with one round is fully loaded, but partially charged. I'd rather load four and get back into the fight if need be, rather than fumble trying to get that last round in a chamber.

Excellent point!

Running some drills with my J frame and a four round speedstrip, it seems much faster if I load the four rounds with two spaces in the middle empty. Anybody else do it this way? I also find that two 4 round speed strips carry well.

[TGS]

Excellent point!

Running some drills with my J frame and a four round speedstrip, it seems much faster if I load the four rounds with two spaces in the middle empty. Anybody else do it this way? I also find that two 4 round speed strips carry well.

I used to load my speed strips with 5 rounds with the first hole next to the tab being empty. This was I had something substantial to hold on too...that little tab just doesn't feel like enough.

[Frank R]

I use speedstrips. I carry two of them in my cellphone case rather than in my pocket. Works well for me.

[NEPAKevin]

I use speedstrips. I carry two of them in my cellphone case rather than in my pocket. Works well for me.

That's a neat idea. But, I can't help but be reminded of Walt Rauch's "definition of an optimist" quip. :)

[JonInWA]

When I carry a revolver (and I only have 4" ones; a Ruger GP100 and a Ruger Security Six), I inevitably carry a Binachi Speed Strip (or 2) as my reload carrier of choice, mostly due to their slimness and ease of carry. One Speed Strip, loaded with 6 rounds, is carried in a Bianchi 2X2X2 grippered pouch, which is carried on my belt upsidedown on my strong side-through experience, I've found it far easier to release the gripper, and yank the Speed Strip down (rather than pulling it up if conventionally carried); there's enough inherent friction between the cartridges and the leather pouch loops to sufficiently retain the Speed Strip without worrying about it being inadvertantly dropped when the pouch is initially ungrippered. Dress permitting, I'll have an HKS speedloader in a jacket pocket as well, and/or an additional Speed Strip.

In IDPA matches when using a revolver, I'll do my "administrative" initial load-up before each stage scenario with the Speed Strip, to maintain some familiarization (minimizing further reducing my already bog-slow revolver reload times); reloads during the stages themselves are done with Safariland and/or HKS speedloaders. In my experience, the HKS units are a bit more durable over time, while the Safariland Comp II and Comp IIIs are slightly easier to use under stress, with fewer motions needed.

I've chosen to shy away from snubbies, feeling that they're too much of a compromise for me-and by compromise, I'm talking about problematic accuracy under stress at anything more than contact distance more so than their inherent ammunition capacity limitations. My thoughts are that a Glock 26 or similar offers far better ergonomics, accuracy potental, ease of use, ammunition capacity, while concurrently possessing inherent reliability and minimal maintenance/lubrication needs. In my case, the smallest Glock I personally possess is a G19, which I've found eminently carryable in a Galco ankle holster if necessary, since I have 2 G19s, if necessary one could be belt-carried (normally in a IWB holster), the other in the ankle holster. However, with a Glock, I've found that most perceived requirements are well met with one gun and a spare magazine.

Best, Jon

[Fly320s]

I was selling an old revolver to pay for a new snubbie carry gun. A guy put a down payment on mine. I have decided to purchase a S&W 642. Here are my questions:

1. Should I get it with the moon clip cuts already made? If I do does that make reloading with strips harder?

2. What have you found to be the best (concealable and fast) reload technique strips/speedloaders/moonclips?

Thanks for the help.

PS Weapon will be used primarily as a BUG but will be primary for when deep concealment is required.

1. Get it cut for moonclips. It won't hurt anything and you might want that feature in the future.

2. FWIW, Claude Werner, snubby instructor extraordinaire, recommends you practice loading your snubby with loose rounds from your pocket because in your most desperate time of need, Murphy will make sure your speed-strip or speed-loaded will drop all of the rounds in your pocket.

[abu fitna]

2. FWIW, Claude Werner, snubby instructor extraordinaire, recommends you practice loading your snubby with loose rounds from your pocket because in your most desperate time of need, Murphy will make sure your speed-strip or speed-loaded will drop all of the rounds in your pocket.

Every time I have had occasion to carry a revolver under potentially unfriendly circumstances, it has never been under conditions where a speed loader or speed strips were also ready at hand. (Of course, I have a strong bias towards semi autos, but life doesn't always cooperate when one is in unusual conditions in unusual parts of the world.) While those or moon clips are of course a good piece of equipment to have, I feel that training the old hard way is essential. I will say that the weak hand mid pocket on the common tactical vests makes for a good fast loose round reload carry position, but it is a bit more obvious out on the street than one would like unless you are in an area with a lot of photojournalists. As an alternative, a cardboard wedge taped to provide a rim out orientation of the brass in your weak hand trouser pocket is a good option, but takes a bit of practice to dislodge cleanly. And must be replaced often - sweat will kill the cardboard over very short time, especially in hot weather (plasticized cardboard such as tetrapak can delay this effect and extend "service life", but depending on the actual manufacturer's coating can cause binding between brass and cardboard. Experiment but given the essentially trivial cost and low degree of effort to replace, its worth it to replace often). But has the advantage of keeping hollowpoints from plugging with sand, lint, etc. in the pocket, and being something one can improvise just about anywhere in the world.

Duct tape or hundred mile an hour tape is not a good alternative, even though some smart fellow may claim that the flexibility makes a poor man's speed strip - brass and tape glue bind into the cylinder.

May you however always have the equipment you would need or want in any circumstance such a thing might be needed.

[LSP972]

Interesting responses.

I have carried a J frame of one sort or another, every day, since 1978. Usually as a BUG, but sometimes as a primary. That includes qualifying with same once or twice a year, every one of those years

Speedloaders are bulky. The only folks I've ever known who carry them for a concealed carry reload are the few folks of my acquaintance who refuse to carry a semi-auto, insist on a revolver, and are willing to put up with the added space requirements for a faster reload.

Speed strips make the most sense for concealed carry. While I too have had (and seen) speedloaders turn their rounds loose at an inopportune time, I have yet to see a Bianchi Speed Strip do that... even when I'm fumbling to get a reload accomplished, much less in a pocket or carry pouch. I understand the reasoning behind "downloading" a Speed Strip... but I don't buy it. In all those years, I haven't had any recurring trouble getting five of the six rounds into the cylinder during practice or quals. Sure, I'll fumble around with it once in a while. I fumble a magazine every now and then, too. Everybody does.

It takes all kinds. I know folks who carry NO reload and NO spare gun. I know folks who carry a reload for the primary, and no spare gun. I know folks who carry two guns, with a reload for the primary only. And I know folks who do what I do; carry two guns and a reload for each.

There's no doubt that a circular speedloader is many times faster than any other method to reload a revolver; it is also going to cut down one's "concealibility" by a fair bit. But if you prefer them, and are willing to make the extra effort to hide them (or work around their bulk in a pocket), I would suggest trying find some old Safariland Comp Is (don't think they ever made Comp IIs for J frames). I have found these far better, overall, than the HKS.

And those are MY opinions...:)

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[jkm]

[I]1. Should I get it with the moon clip cuts already made? If I do does that make reloading with strips harder? My understanding is that moon clip modifications don't change anything about the way(s) you can reload the revolver, except that with the mods, you can also use moon clips. If that is true in every case, then I say get them.
2. What have you found to be the best (concealable and fast) reload technique strips/speedloaders/moonclips? I use speedloaders or strips. Neither are close to the speed of a moon clip. I carry the speedloaders on my belt in a 3inside/3outside the belt holder, so it's not a 'deep cover' thing like you need. Good luck....jkm

[famgatteacher]

When i carried for duty, I had one loader and 2 strips. I used the safariland comp loaders which pressed onto the cylinder because they were faster and more reliable than the HKS, which occasionally stuck and held onto one cartridge. If you're carrying only for self defense, then carry speedloaders in the cold months, speed strips in the hot months. The idea about loading strips with only four rounds is worth considering.

[Jeff22]

I frequently carry a 3 inch S&W 60 .38 revolver as an off duty gun.

Usually my reloads are in Bianchi Speed Strips or Tuff Products QuickStrips.

I sometimes carry a speedloader for a reload.

It can be hard sometimes to find speedloader carriers or speed strip carriers because different manufacturers use different nomenclature to describe their products.

But, I was recently researching the topic for a friend and this is what I found:

Speedloader pouches

Safariland 371 Split 6 for 1-3/4 inch belt (single carrier)

Safariland 371 J split 6 for 1-3/4 inch belt (single carrier) j frame revolver

Safariland 370 Split 6 for 2-1/4 inch duty belt (double carrier)


Tex Shoemaker 104 open top double speedloader carrier (concealment use)


Don Hume Pack 6 concealment speedloader holder

DeSantis GunHide Second Six speedloader holder

Andrews Leather slimloader pouch

Speed Strip/QuickStrip pouches

Simply Rugged Leather
Most Versatile Ammo Pouch

Tex Shoemaker
94F1 Shell pouch

International Handgun Leather (sold by Dillon)
Speed Strip / Quick Strip Wallet

Tuff Products
QuickStrips Tactical Holster Pouch
In leather or nylon

I don't have much experience with a good way to carry full moon clips in concealment . . .

[Rappahannock]

Here is some reading material on the subject of snubby revolvers: http://www.snubnose.info/

[LSP972]

This is an excellent "primer" on snubbies in general, and aluminum J frames in particular. He pretty much covers every aspect of using these things as a defensive carry piece. Well worth the price; you will refer back to it often.


http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Revolver%20Ad.htm

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