45 Colt Lever gun - which one?

[SLG]

Chiappa, Henry, Winchester 92, Marlin? Am I leaving something out?

Which one is the handiest (assuming 16" tube), highest quality, best for stout loads (can accept longish cast bullets, heavy for caliber). The heavyish load part is very important, because I want to use the same loads as my Bisley. In that regard, firm bore diameter is probably pretty important as well.

The features of the Henry look really good to me, but I don't know how they stack up in the areas I laid out above. Also seem a little heavy.

The Chiappa is very light, but I know next to nothing about them.

Malamute favors the 92, which says a lot to me, but I don't know about the stout loads. Sounds like they may not like long bullets.

Marlin. Eh, Marlin.

[GJM]

You need a Bowen Alpine .45 LC to round out that combo.

[LOKNLOD]

Is Rossi in the mix?
I like the looks of this one: Link (http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=181&category=8&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=)

[Malamute]

The 92 action can be tinkered with to accept rounds a little longer. I dont know how that compares to what the Marlins will accept for cartridge length, or whats required to get them to feed longer rounds.

It may be worth asking Steve from Steves Gunz, he does a lot of work on cowboy action guns, and is pretty up to speed on the various current models. If you have a specific bullet or load you like, its possible most of the currently available guns could be adjusted to feed them.

I mentioned the Lyman 429421 bullet. It wont feed in my Browning 92 loaded in magnum cases, but the stop on the carrier can be cut back to let them feed. I just havent gotten energetic enough to do it. Loaded in 44 spl cases, it feeds perfectly. I think they are about 1/10" longer than book spec on 44 mag.

Some bullets have two crimping grooves to allow for different guns and OAL requirements.

In 45 Colt, you may not have as much problem with length as the 44 mags do unless you want to go with the extra-heavy bullets.

I dont know what the bores on the 45 Colts are running. They seem to vary a bit in 44, and likely do in 45 Colt cal. even if 20 of your best friends have examples of X gun and they all have a certain size bore, yours may not be that size. The lever guns seem to vary more than other long guns for some reason. The rifle chamberings of pistol calibers seem to allow larger groove diameter than similar chambered handguns. Chambers can be a bit loose also to help feeding. Sounds dismal, but most people just shoot them and never know the details of why they seem to shoot well or not. Most will shoot some load well, it just may not be the one you want it to shoot well, unless you work with the load a bit to fit your gun.



Is Rossi in the mix?
I like the looks of this one: Link (http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=181&category=8&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=)

The Rossis can be hit or miss on fit and quality, but seem to be getting better overall. I think Steve can get any of them up to speed if they arent in top form out of the box. He also seels vids of how to do basic action tune-ups etc on them. One could do worse than a Rossi, so long as its one thats fit well and the bore isnt too loose.

Any of the 92 types should be fine with any level load safe in a standard Ruger SA or DA revolver. If you get into 5 shooter level loads, it may bear a bit more scrutiny of whatever particular model you prefer.

ETA: just remembered this, unfortunately it sold, but was a high quality rifle rebored to 45 colt. It was the Centennial version of the Browning 92. A Browning 92 obviously could be rebored, but it would get pricey. This was a good deal for the base gun and work done to it.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64409&sid=8898b54d84801582ee69023f01262ab0

[dbateman]

I want to use the same loads as my Bisley. In that regard, firm bore diameter is probably pretty important as well.

.

What loads are you putting through your Bisley ?

[CSW]

Chiappa, Henry, Winchester 92, Marlin? Am I leaving something out?

Which one is the handiest (assuming 16" tube), highest quality, best for stout loads (can accept longish cast bullets, heavy for caliber). The heavyish load part is very important, because I want to use the same loads as my Bisley. In that regard, firm bore diameter is probably pretty important as well.

The features of the Henry look really good to me, but I don't know how they stack up in the areas I laid out above. Also seem a little heavy.

The Chiappa is very light, but I know next to nothing about them.

Malamute favors the 92, which says a lot to me, but I don't know about the stout loads. Sounds like they may not like long bullets.

Marlin. Eh, Marlin.

I would Recommend finding a Winchester "Trapper", 16". I bought mine just after they intro'd the cross-bolt safety, but to be honest it is not a hindrance, nor a detraction in looks, UNLESS you are a purest.
The balance is awesome, and recoil minimal. The fit and finish on mine is stellar, for a late Winchester.
I pair mine with my Smith Mountain gun in 45Colt~ Great hunting combo.

I live in NH, and Frankly, there is not an animal in the wood here that this cartridge cannot kill properly loaded.

Paired with a good hard cast bullet, such as http://www.beartoothbullets.com/, this little carbine is super accurate and deadly!!!
With hard cast, it's not so much about velocity as it is about the WIDE melplat.

The bottom picture is one of my better days, shooting Beartooth Bullets 265g Keith.

4685
4684

[SLG]

You need a Bowen Alpine .45 LC to round out that combo.

I am very tempted, but it seems to me that the 5.5" barrel and square butt is the better way to go. I'll need to shoot an Alpine first.

[SLG]

Is Rossi in the mix?
I like the looks of this one: Link (http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=181&category=8&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=)

I've always thought that Rossi was sub par in the quality department, but if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be educated.

[SLG]

What loads are you putting through your Bisley ?

Not sure yet ("He said sheepishly.") I'm really only shooting 44's right now, but want to move to 45 in the not too distant future. I'm looking at 300-360 grain bullets in the 1100fps range. More or less, depending on accuracy. Regardless, only loads that are safe in factory 6 shot Bisleys. This thread is me doing a little homework so that when I start looking for a companion levergun (think 45-70 special power levels), I'll know what I'm looking at. All of my leverguns are Marlins, and one Winchester 94 in 30-30. None in 45 Colt.

[LOKNLOD]

I've always thought that Rossi was sub par in the quality department, but if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be educated.

Just to be clear, that was my questions as well not necessarily a suggestion. Just another option in the marketplace that wasn't on the original list.

[SLG]

Just to be clear, that was my questions as well not necessarily a suggestion. Just another option in the marketplace that wasn't on the original list.

From Malamute's post, it sounds like they can be just fine. I have a chance to shoot one this week, and I'll see what i think.

[CSW]

Not sure yet ("He said sheepishly.") ..I'm looking at 300-360 grain bullets in the 1100fps range .

That is a good starting point.
I used to 'hot-rod' a Blackhawk, with 280 grains to 1300fps....Just Brutal, and no sense....
In speaking with Smith just after purchasing that mountain gun, their suggestion was top all loads for the mountain gun no higher than 1000fps.
My deep woods load is a Beartooth 300 grain, at 1000fps using H110.
I've fired many, they feed well in the rifle too, but as you choose bullet designs for a rifle [if you went Winchester], be mindful that too flat of a melplat will sometimes give you loading issues on the feed ramp.
I've also loaded Sierra 240SJHP's that perform flawlessly.
For just fun plinkin', get some Berry's 250's, and blast away!

ETA:
the Pistol is a .452, but the rifle is actually a .453. I run .452 bullets without any issue. I've seen some Marlins that had been as big as .454 in a .45colt rifle. Whether it was QC, or ???? not sure.
I'f you really get into deep, slug your barrel. Beartooth offers those kits too. Sorry, I don't want to sound like I am pimping them, it's just they are a great company, and offer alot of CS if needed. The owner, Marshall Stanton, runs a 1 man business, and offers handmade excellent quality products for a fair price. Just an fyi.

[Al T.]

We have a couple of Rossi 92s on the shelf at work. (LGS) I'm very tempted by the .38/.357 and they look very good, fit and finish wise. Also much smoother than the older ones. Skinner makes a peep sight that replaces the safety, so that's a non-problem.

http://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=5

[WDW]

I've always thought that Rossi was sub par in the quality department, but if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be educated.

Well, they're made by Taurus so that's a big red flag. Like everything they make, sometimes the design is good but the execution, materials, & QC are piss poor.

[Malamute]

...I've fired many, they feed well in the rifle too, but as you choose bullet designs for a rifle [if you went Winchester], be mindful that too flat of a melplat will sometimes give you loading issues on the feed ramp.
I've also loaded Sierra 240SJHP's that perform flawlessly.
For just fun plinkin', get some Berry's 250's, and blast away!...

Theres a couple simple mods that can be done to the carrier that help the fat fronted bullets feed better. Its basically making a groove in the top front of the carrier to allow the bullet nose to lower slightly when feeding.


Not sure yet ("He said sheepishly.") I'm really only shooting 44's right now, but want to move to 45 in the not too distant future. I'm looking at 300-360 grain bullets in the 1100fps range. More or less, depending on accuracy. Regardless, only loads that are safe in factory 6 shot Bisleys. This thread is me doing a little homework so that when I start looking for a companion levergun (think 45-70 special power levels), I'll know what I'm looking at. All of my leverguns are Marlins, and one Winchester 94 in 30-30. None in 45 Colt.

That level of load should be fine in about anything. Linebaugh has some pressure info with various loads on his site. Youre looking at about 30,000 lbs or so pressure in that range, less than a 44 mag does with similar loads.

Some reading on the matter. He has a couple other pieces he wrote about heavy loads on the site.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm


From Malamute's post, it sounds like they can be just fine. I have a chance to shoot one this week, and I'll see what i think.

I had a low opinion of the Rossis from the ones I've seen in the past, but reports from others that have bought them recently, and what Steve has written about them, theyve improved over time. I wouldnt buy one I couldnt see in person first (same for recent Marlins), checking fit and finish, and putting a caliper in the bore. Caliper isnt the best for checking a bore, but gets pretty close.

It may be possible to get a new one through Steve and have him give it a basic tune-up and replace the bolt safety with a plug or one of his bolt peep sights. Youd be ahead of the game knowing it was good to go that way, if that was in the budget.

Rossi sights are not great, I'd consider replacing them with about anything. I like receiver peep sights, the Rossis would need to be drilled and tapped for one, though it isnt hard to do, even as a home project.

[SLG]

...
I'f you really get into deep, slug your barrel. Beartooth offers those kits too. Sorry, I don't want to sound like I am pimping them, it's just they are a great company, and offer alot of CS if needed. The owner, Marshall Stanton, runs a 1 man business, and offers handmade excellent quality products for a fair price. Just an fyi.

I have a few thousand BTB for my 44's, as well as their slug kit. I think that LBT does a better slug kit, fwiw.

My BTB shoot great in my 44's, but the problem with BTB is that it is impossible to get through to them, and for the anointed few who do, the wait time for bullets is worse than the lock time of a Seville.

I've been testing various other makers bullets lately, and though they seem really well made, I have not had much luck getting them to shoot as well as the BTB do. :-(

[Wheeler]

In for education.

[Dagga Boy]

I have a .45 Colt Winchester trapper I really like. Older gun I got for a song from a Cowboy Action Shooting Gunshop because the SASS folks don't like them (not enough tube capacity). I have pistol caliber lever guns in .357, .44, and .45 Colt. Two winchester trappers and a cut down Marlin. While I don't have one, Jackson Armory has a .45 Colt Cimmaron I have been drooling on for months.
I don't think you can go wrong with a Winchester or Marlin.

[Malamute]

I have a .45 Colt Winchester trapper I really like...

Is that a 94 or 92? Guessing 94 if its older. I dont recall what year they started having the 92s made again by Miroku.

Someone else mentioned having a Winchester but they didnt say which model.

[Matt O]

Are the new model Winchesters good to go? I've heard the Miroku factory makes decent stuff, but they are admittedly rather pricey.

[dbateman]

Not sure yet ("He said sheepishly.") I'm really only shooting 44's right now, but want to move to 45 in the not too distant future. I'm looking at 300-360 grain bullets in the 1100fps range. More or less, depending on accuracy. Regardless, only loads that are safe in factory 6 shot Bisleys. This thread is me doing a little homework so that when I start looking for a companion levergun (think 45-70 special power levels), I'll know what I'm looking at. All of my leverguns are Marlins, and one Winchester 94 in 30-30. None in 45 Colt.

Fair enough, in the other thread you asked about how hot a load a 94 chambered in 45lc can handle and I'm still mulling that over but I "think" (and someone correct me if they think I'm out of line) a Win 94 Trapper chambered in 45lc with good brass like StarLine should be able to take quite a stout load, my thinking behind that is the action is used for the 30-30 ect which operate at higher pressures than the 45lc.

But like I mentioned I have not tried to hotrod the 45lc mainly because well that big heavy old projectile just kills things, and I have bigger guns if I want things more deader.
I suspect my 300gr load is doing somewhere around 1100-1200fps out of a 16" tube, I have never checked it... Thats just a seat of the pants measurement.

As far as rifles go if you have Marlins and are happy with them, I know they did make some 16" guns in 45lc, maybe you could keep an eye out for a secondhand one.

I think you will really enjoy the 45lc I know I have.

[Sigfan26]

Fair enough, in the other thread you asked about how hot a load a 94 chambered in 45lc can handle and I'm still mulling that over but I "think" (and someone correct me if they think I'm out of line) a Win 94 Trapper chambered in 45lc with good brass like StarLine should be able to take quite a stout load, my thinking behind that is the action is used for the 30-30 ect which operate at higher pressures than the 45lc.

But like I mentioned I have not tried to hotrod the 45lc mainly because well that big heavy old projectile just kills things, and I have bigger guns if I want things more deader.
I suspect my 300gr load is doing somewhere around 1100-1200fps out of a 16" tube, I have never checked it... Thats just a seat of the pants measurement.

As far as rifles go if you have Marlins and are happy with them, I know they did make some 16" guns in 45lc, maybe you could keep an eye out for a secondhand one.

I think you will really enjoy the 45lc I know I have.

From Underwood Ammunition's website on their 45 Colt +P
"These loads are safe in all large frame Ruger revolvers, TC Contender, and Colt Anaconda. These loads are safe in all modern Model 1892 leverguns as well as all Winchester & Marlin 1894's. These Heavy .45 Colt +P loads are NOT intended for the New Model Vaquero (small frame). DO NOT USE IN ANY OTHER FIREARM. THESE ARE NOT STANDARD PRESSURE CARTRIDGES! Do not use +P ammunition in firearms that are replicas of early designs, such as rolling blocks, Sharps and Colt-style single action army revolvers."

Buffalo Bore has a similar guideline.

[SLG]

From Underwood Ammunition's website on their 45 Colt +P
"These loads are safe in all large frame Ruger revolvers, TC Contender, and Colt Anaconda. These loads are safe in all modern Model 1892 leverguns as well as all Winchester & Marlin 1894's. These Heavy .45 Colt +P loads are NOT intended for the New Model Vaquero (small frame). DO NOT USE IN ANY OTHER FIREARM. THESE ARE NOT STANDARD PRESSURE CARTRIDGES! Do not use +P ammunition in firearms that are replicas of early designs, such as rolling blocks, Sharps and Colt-style single action army revolvers."

Buffalo Bore has a similar guideline.

Duh. Good thought to check that stuff, thanks.

[Sigfan26]

Duh. Good thought to check that stuff, thanks.

No problem!

[Malamute]

Are the new model Winchesters good to go? I've heard the Miroku factory makes decent stuff, but they are admittedly rather pricey.

The Miroku made guns are excellent quality, and fit and finish. The ones with rebounding hammers have some little parts in the trigger system that the older ones didnt, but you can simply live with it or swap parts for Browning 92 or Rossi 92 half cock parts. I converted one late Winchester 92 to standard half cock with Browning parts.

[SLG]

Just as a cap on the idea of powerful 45 Colt in a modern LA...I've been re-reading John Taffin stuff, and it seems that the Marlin 1984, the various quality repro 1892's floating around, and the Henry's, should have no issue at all with 6 shot Ruger Only loads. Whether or not your pet revolver loads will shoot as you like in the carbines is a different matter.

[Lost River]

I was actually going to suggest you research what JT has to say on the topic, but obviously you are way ahead of me. He s a wealth of information, and easy to talk to (except his hearing is worse than mine). I am curious to see what you end up doing. While I have no need for another big bore pistol cartridge lever gun, the a .45 Colt loaded to full potential sounds very appealing.

Kind of an off hand thought, but Marlin made the 336 in .44 mag for a couple few years. A barrel swap to .45, chambered/throated/twisted to your ideal specs might be worth investigating. I see them now and then, for not unreasonable prices. My dad just returned mine. I had totally forgot about the thing actually. Very trim, well balanced gun.

[LOKNLOD]

Randomly, I ended up purchasing the Rossi M92 in .45 today. I had stopped by Academy to grab a bit of ammo, and they were having a clearance...the gun was marked down from $449, to $225. Couldn't resist.

I had just left the range, so no report yet, but I'm looking forward to testing it out. It sure is a handy-feeling little carbine. It's not much bigger than my SBR AR.

[Hambo]

Which one is the handiest (assuming 16" tube), highest quality, best for stout loads (can accept longish cast bullets, heavy for caliber). The heavyish load part is very important, because I want to use the same loads as my Bisley. In that regard, firm bore diameter is probably pretty important as well.


Have you checked twist rates in LA's? It's usually pretty slow in .44/.45.

[minengr]

FWIW, while I don't remember where I read it, EMF, Navy Arms, Puma, and Rossi all come out of the same factory. While the quality may not be the highest, they are still decent rifles. At least my EMF has been. I enjoy projects, probably a bit too much, so I don't mind tinkering. My only real gripe was the crap wood stock which I have since replaced. I haven't messed with mine in awhile, but when I was shooing it more often it handled "hot" loads without any issues.

Mic McPherson has some good information out there.

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm is another good article. There are some other good reads at leverguns.

Somewhere I have a magazine article where a guy hotrodded cut down 454 cases with decent results.

[Wheeler]

Somewhere I have a magazine article where a guy hotrodded cut down 454 cases with decent results.

That's sort of funny. The .454 was developed by stretching out .45 Colt cases. :)

[Buckshot]

I gotta pipe up on this one. Any Marlin built in Illion NY is a BIG question mark, especially in pistol calibers - feeding & action timing problems abound! Older, pre Illion Marlins are GTG. Miroku 92s are outstanding. Brazilian 92s are usually fine & seem to be improving in QC. Don't know how long the Brazilian locking lugs would stay tight with heavy loads, though. Also, just because the same plant builds the Brazilian guns, they aren't necessarily made to the same fit & finish for each brand.