.44 mag levergun

[Frank R]

I'm interested in purchasing a new, .44 mag levergun and would like experienced opinions as to which one to buy.

Thank you.

[Sigfan26]

I just bought a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag and love it ! Feeds everything from 305gr WFN loads to 44 special wadcutters.

[JHC]

Me, it would be the Marlin 1894. More and easier to adopt sight options from scopes to peeps to RDS.

[WDW]

I don't trust anything current from Marlin...they're under the same hat as Remington. I recently picked up one of the Henry Big Boy Steel .44 magnum rifles & those things are nice! Very nicely made, no safety, no floppy trigger. Only downside is it's a tube/plunger feed system & is slower to reload, but it holds 11 rounds of .44 mag.

[GJM]

You looking for a lever gun, a .44 lever gun, or a .44 long gun?

[Sigfan26]

I don't trust anything current from Marlin...they're under the same hat as Remington. I recently picked up one of the Henry Big Boy Steel .44 magnum rifles & those things are nice! Very nicely made, no safety, no floppy trigger. Only downside is it's a tube/plunger feed system & is slower to reload, but it holds 11 rounds of .44 mag.

I've bought 3 new ones in the last month (336Y, 1894, and 1895G). While hard to believe, it does seem as though things have improved on the QC front.

[Sigfan26]

This looks nice, too
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-alaskan/1892-alaskan-take-down-44rm-16-barrel-black-soft-touch-padded-stock-end.html

[SLG]

This looks nice, too
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-alaskan/1892-alaskan-take-down-44rm-16-barrel-black-soft-touch-padded-stock-end.html

I have never seen that before. Anyone have any experience with it?

[ACP230]

I have a Marlin 1894 FG in .41 Magnum. Put XS ghost ring sights on it and
have been very happy with it.
The .44 should work as well--if you like such a caliber.;)

[dbateman]

I'm a 45LC man myself, what I have is a Winchester 94 Trapper, the one with the 16" barrel.

You're ether a 45 guy or 44 guy, there is not a lot of difference between them.

I have two trappers one in 30-30 and another in 45LC, I also had another in 357mag which I sold and since have come to regret that decision.
For me the little trappers fill in a pretty important role, they are chambered in fairly powerful rounds they are short light and handy but still have decent mag capacity
5+1 for the 30-30 and 9+1 for the 45. Mine are all wearing William's sights.

I don't use them as a long range rifle, the 45 and 357 I always tried to keep my shots to 100yds or so the 30-30 is a little more flat shooting so I keep it to 150yds or so.
You could shoot them further if you put the time into learning them. But anything inside those ranges are in trouble.

I have a few other lever guns with 20" and 24" but I reach for the little trappers way more often than my other 94s.

I'm not sure what current production Winchesters are like ? I brought my last one ten or more years ago. If I were in the market for a 44mag I'd keep an eye out for a good pre safety 94.


What would you like to use your 44mag for ?

[SLG]

dbateman,

Will the Trappers handle the really hot Ruger only loads? How about a 5 shot ruger only load?

[Malamute]

dbateman,

Will the Trappers handle the really hot Ruger only loads? How about a 5 shot ruger only load?

I dont know what level the Winchester 94 actions top out at pressure wise, but the 92 Winchester type action should take them.

[SLG]

I dont know what level the Winchester 94 actions top out at pressure wise, but the 92 Winchester type action should take them.

I keep hearing conflicting reports about it. Seems like it might be asking for trouble in the 94, but I have no idea. I assume the Marlin's can handle them fine, but again, IDK.

[Malamute]

I havent heard much about what the Marlins will take in regards to heavy pistol level loads. I believe the 94 Marlin actions have been rebuilt to 454, but I think it may be pushing it to the limit. So far, the 92 type action is the only one successfully built commercially for 454. The 94 Winchesters will take SAMMI level 44 mag or similar 45 Colt loads. The 45 Colt runs a bit lower pressure than the 44 mag for similar performance levels due to the larger case capacity and bore size. I believe the 5 shot level 45 Colt loads are close to 454 pressure.

A few years ago a guy did some experimenting with different actions to see if any were useful for making a 454 rifle out of. He gathered a Marlin 336 action, Winchester 94 from the 20's, and a Winchester 94 from the angle eject era. All failed in less than about 20-30 rounds. None came apart, but were stretched so badly they wouldnt function. The Marlin bulged the sidewalls of the receiver where the locking bolt rides, I dont recall exactly, but I believe it was the first to fail in number of rounds. The angle eject win 84 stretched the sidewalls of the receiver, the right side noticably more than the left. The 1920's 94 lasted a few rounds longer, but also stretched into an unfunctional state. I dont recall exactly where it fit in the process, but I believe he then tried a Browning 92 action and it was OK. He ended up building a custom action from scratch that was a hybrid between a Winchester 1886 and 1892. It was never made commercially, but was functionally successful. I think the gun ended up in Alaska, it surfaces every few years when the subject comes up.

One aspect of the various actions is the amount of locking bolt surface area. The Marlin actions have the least amount of locking bolt to breech bolt surface area. Excess pressure bulges the sidewalls apart. The winchester 94's have the entire rear of the breech bolt covered by the locking bolt, but the angle of the bolt seems to work against it somewhat. It also has a web of steel just behind the locking bolt that ties the sidewalls together. The 92 type action has two locking bolts that ride up both sides of the bolt, and are at a nearly 90 deg angle, and also have the web of steel right behind the locking bolt. The 92 action seems to take high pressure a bit better than most other common actions.

I dont know what was done in the custom 454 builds on the Marlin 94 action, its possible, I dont know how much work it takes to make it hold up though. Most dont feel its a great idea. Theres one or two smiths that have done 454 builds I believe.

Any play in the lockup seems to accelerate battering and loosening of the action.

[Frank R]

The Rossi works OK in 454.

[Malamute]

The Rossi works OK in 454.

Yes, its the only commercially available and successful 454 offering. Its a Winchester 92 type action. I dont know if they did anything different with the receiver alloy or hardening. I suspect so.

The Big Bore 94 Winchesters were offered in higher pressure loads. They had the pregnant looking rear receiver sidewalls. I dont know if that was strictly necessary, or was a perceived marketing thing. The later Big Bores didnt have the swollen rear receiver walls, I suspect that an alloy change and heat treatment change took care of it. Its been pointed out that Marlin offered the 307 and 356 Winchester loads, but only made the 356 I believe, and it came back off the market fairly quickly. Many question if the action was up to a steady diet of loads in that pressure level (approximately 50,000 CUP I believe). There have been conflicting reports if the Marlins in 356 had a different heat treatment than the standard 336 actions (the 1895/45-70 action is identical in size and basic function). The 454 runs around 60,000 or more CUP. I dont know how that translates to PSI, the scales arent exactly equally translatable.

[SLG]

Interesting stuff, thanks.

[Malamute]

Was going to edit, but may as well make another post.

One thing to keep in mind, all of them will last a lifetime or two when used within their design parameters of their original cartridge. When we start wanting to push the limits a bit is when it starts to matter. For some reason when the subject of "strength" comes up, many folks get ruffled if their favorite isnt "The Best!" in some way. All of the designs have strong and weak points, none are perfect. All will do their thing way longer than we'll likely be around if used within that basic design range. All will likely live shorter lives if pushed hard past those original design range by much. The Winchester 1886 and 1892 design seem to be capable of holding up to heavier loads than originally designed for, but even they have limits.

[SLG]

http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/16110/henry-big-boy-steel-colt?page=1&scrollTo=180416

Some links in the thread for those interested. I don't know Paco Kelly, but he seems to be pushing the envelope with some of his reloading. I might not duplicate some of those loads... See Malamute's post above.

[Frank R]

We're getting a little thread drift guys. Can we get back on track please?

[Jeep]

Yes, its the only commercially available and successful 454 offering. Its a Winchester 92 type action. I dont know if they did anything different with the receiver alloy or hardening. I suspect so.

The Big Bore 94 Winchesters were offered in higher pressure loads.

I can't see running a 454 in any standard lever action--it's asking for trouble. But if you downsize the caliber and go to .357, lever actions seem to handle hot load pretty well, and my guess is that they would do so for 41 magnum as well (the 41 mag. might be the sweet spot for lever actions even though there aren't too many out there). If you get bigger than that, you are starting to get a lot of energy/pressure in a hot load.

[dbateman]

dbateman,

Will the Trappers handle the really hot Ruger only loads? How about a 5 shot ruger only load?

I honestly don't know, I have read of people hot rodding the 45lc.
But I have no first hand experience with it.
In the 45lc I typically shoot a 255gr or a 300gr cast lead bullet at moderate velocities, it tends to penetrate quite well and put down pigs cattle ect reliably.

In the 30-30 I shoot either 150gr or 170gr factory ammo, mostly Winchester Power Points, I did use some Remington ammo for a while but for some reason I didn't like it.
I prefer the 150gr on pigs they expand quite well on heart/lung shots and leave a large exit wound, the 170gr in my experience are a little heavier constructed and didn't give me the same results. They would be good on larger game.

[SLG]

We're getting a little thread drift guys. Can we get back on track please?

Sorry.

[GJM]

If I wanted to be able to shoot Garrett level .44 magnum, and hotter, loads in a lever gun, I would just go Marlin .45/70 which I think is the best lever gun Marlin makes, and my single favorite lever gun period.

[BN]

I have an older Rossi 44 Mag. I've had it for 20 years or so. I mostly just shoot 44 Special Cowboy loads in it. I haven't had any problems with it, but I don't like the sights on it.

[Malamute]

We're getting a little thread drift guys. Can we get back on track please?

Sorry.

My preference is the Browning 92's as made in the 80's or early 90's, or Winchester 92's as currently made by Miroku in Japan. They arent cheap, but deals can be found on used ones. Its hard to go wrong with the Marlins in any event. So long as you get one thats well built and fitted, they are pretty good guns. The Henry guns are a bit heavy in comparison, but seem to be well built and have very good CS from all accounts. They dont appeal to some of us that are more traditionalists, but thats each individuals problem, not the guns.

If you want to shoot cast bullet loads, some of the microgroove Marlins take some tinkering with bullet diameters to shoot their best. If shooting jacketed, it doesnt matter much about microgroove rifling.

Many 44 rifles have larger groove diameter barrels than handguns. The SAMMI spec is actually larger, and the factories have little problem sending guns out the door with groove diameters that run up to around .432". That may or may not end up creating the need to use different bullet diameters or loads that shoot best in a pair of handguns and rifles, somewhat taking from the interchangeable aspect, if thats a consideration. Many just use their favorite pistol or carbine load and take whatever it does in the other gun and call it good. Not perfect performance perhaps, but a workable solution if one isnt too much of a perfectionist.

Some extra-heavy or longer than standard bullet loads dont feed as well in some lever actions. OAL may be more of an issue than it is in some handguns. The Lyman 429421 bullet is too long for all lever actions I've tried them in, but work fine in Smith and Ruger revolvers.

[okie john]

I'm interested in purchasing a new, .44 mag levergun and would like experienced opinions as to which one to buy.

Thank you.

I had a Marlin 1894 for a while, but it didn't have the reach that I wanted so I sold it.

If you hunt with a 44 Magnum rifle, you may need to handload for it. The little blacktail that I shot with mine looked like it had been hit with an RPG. An American Eagle 240-grain JHP may be fine on deer at 1,200 fps out of a revolver, but at 1,500 from a carbine, it's something else entirely.


Okie John

[Al T.]

I sold my 1894 Marlin when they jumped up in value. I'm in the "needs a scope" age bracket and purchased a Ruger model 96/44 used. I'm very pleased with the 96/44 topped with a 2x7 Leopold scope.