Sights

[frankepc]

What do most people here prefer and why? Not for competition but for defensive carry or duty purposes. What is the best setup, black sights, high visibility front sights, thin front blade, is tritium even really necessary if you’re always carrying a dedicated light? By the way currently running a set of warrens with the two dots and the front sight is painted bright red with dayglo. Recently read an article on shooting past 25 yards with a handgun and though it was interesting how guys like Gabe Suarez and Kyle Defoor recommend black sights instead of some form of night sights for most shooting situations but especially for long range low probability shooting. If this has already been posted please redirect me.

[VolGrad]

Lots of varying opinions on this topic.

Most of my pisols are wearing Ameriglo HACK sights. This is a green tritium night sight front post outlined in bright orange paint. The rear is all black, serrated face with a wide notch.

I do have a couple of pistols wearing different setups for various reasons;
a G17 with the HACK rear and a green painted front, no NS which I shoot in outdoor IDPA
a G17 with 10-8 brass bead up front, 10-8 wide U-notch rear
a G21 with Ameriglo iDots (pretty much same as HACK but with a tiny tritium dot below the rear notch) ... just because I wanted to try them
my 1911s are wearing factory front night sights and 10-8 wide U-notch rears ... just because

[ToddG]

Let's assume for sake of discussion that a plain black rear sight with no trit capsule is somehow better for >25yd shooting.

It's immediately demonstrable that having some kind of 2-point aiming reference between the front and rear sight is beneficial at closer distances and when faster shots are necessary. After all, it's why we have rear sights (and why so many people plateau early with XS sights). All it takes is a strongly backlit target and you can pretty easily see one of the many deficiencies of the 'one-dot' approach. Believe me, been there done that. I used to run a Warren no-dot rear on a night sight front Beretta and two years in a row had trouble at the S&W Indoor Nationals because of some of their devious lighting conditions during the so-called "low light" stages.

Examine your likely needs and decide which set of scenarios is the one you should favor in your gear selection. If you're more concerned about >25yd shooting than <25yd shooting, and if you believe the all black sights make a difference for you, choose those. Otherwise, don't.

[frankepc]

Do you think that that U notch offer some advantages (speed or accuracy) over the typical square rear notch, also have you found that night sights are essential in most shooting situations?

[ToddG]

Do you think that that U notch offer some advantages (speed or accuracy) over the typical square rear notch,

I think the Warren Tactical rear sight ("square" shape with no squared edges) is ideal. Between a u-notch and a standard notch, I don't see enough difference to get emotional about it. The sights I'm using now (Trij HD) use a u-notch and except insofar as it makes room for the big orange dot on the front, I don't see it helping or hurting. I'm not using the bottom edge of the sight when I shoot, after all.


also have you found that night sights are essential in most shooting situations?

I'm not sure how to go about answering that. If I had to give a simple one word answer, I'd say "No."

The issue is that they can be essential in enough situations that they're worth having, because there are things you can do with night sights on your gun that you can't do without them. As I've said before, too many people make their sight choices based on:

how they shoot with great lighting,
how they shoot with no or almost no lighting, and
how they shoot when they are using a flashlight.


The reality is that you can grab a spoon out of the kitchen cabinet and walk around your house in the evening pretending it's the slide of a gun. Pretty quickly, you'll see there are an infinite myriad of lighting conditions. You might be in the light and something you want to "shoot" is in the dark. Or vice versa. You might be able to see the gun in someone's hand but nothing more than a silhouette of his head and chest. Etc.

[frankepc]

ToddG since you are currently running the HD sights on your glock do you think that you have lost some accuracy due to the width of your front sight when compared to let’s say warren’s or henie’s? If you have lost some accuracy is the speed worth the trade off?

[Dagga Boy]

I found out by accident my prefered sight set up. One of my SWAT guys damaged a rear sight on his USP .45. I took the rear of my gun and put it on his and just replaced my rear with a stock sight while I waited for a new tritium three dot rear to come in. I was working at night, in a very intense high threat law enforcement detail (ghetto night time doing crime suppression in our worst areas on a bicycle). I was working in very fluid lighting, and pointing a pistol at a LOT of people in a wide variety of situations, in a wide range of clothing, combined with a lot of both stationary and moving scenarios. The single tritium dot combined with an all black U notch is my favorite sight at this point. I have found over the years that MY eyes like circles. While I don't "see" the bottom of the U notch, the fact is that I am "seeing" the bottom of the U-notch. I am just not doing it consciously. I like putting circles or dots on things to hit them at speed and under stress for sheer simplicity. 10-8's tend to be my favorites. It works for me-YMMV.

On a side note-the one gun I REALLY like X/S sights on is my P7's. For some reason, the narrow slide and shape of the P7 slide just seems to provide a sight picture my eyes like. By the same token, my eyes do not like the picture on the back of a Glock. Keep in mind that in a fast moving close quarters fight, the entire back of the gun comes into play for visually verified shooting.

[fuse]

ToddG since you are currently running the HD sights on your glock do you think that you have lost some accuracy due to the width of your front sight when compared to let’s say warren’s or henie’s? If you have lost some accuracy is the speed worth the trade off?

I believe he claims he has indeed lost some accuracy, although he is basically the only person that can tell.

[ToddG]

At the extreme deep end of the pool, yes it has probably increased my group size a bit. But without a real side by side comparison on the same gun (not same model but exact same serial numbered gun), even that is hard to say for sure.

Pulling maximum accuracy out of the gun with the HD sights is slower than using a thinner front, but not nearly as slow as using something like XS sights.

[JAD]

For me to get hits -- and I'm admittedly way behind the curve on this forum -- I have to focus on my front sight. In many lighting conditions, that's hard to do if there isn't a tritium vial in the sight. Using a flashlight doesn't make it much better; the light helps me see the target, but doesn't do much for the front sight.

[frankepc]

Do you believe one set of sights is better suited to for beginers since it may be easier to focus on the front sight of the HD sights when compared to the other sights.

[Al T.]

Frank, take the beginners age into consideration. We are seeing more and more older folks getting into defensive shooting at my home range.

IMHO, best to start off most new folks on .22s and plain sights. Folks with vision issues (like me) need the contrast, younger folks, not so much.

I'd also check if they are already shooting their primary defensive firearm as well. If it's something like a M92 or Ruger, replacement high vis sights may not be available.

[Super J]

I have used xs big dots, ameriglo, standard trijicons (3 green vials) and have finally settled with Sevigny carry sights with tritium (single green front with single dimmer yellow rear).

[Moku2k]

After being a competitive shooter for the military (many, many, many moons ago) I'm getting back into the sport. Glad I found this forum! Anyway I've been issued a Glock 26 and a 17 with the standard plastic sights. So far I'm spending more time on the fundamentals than worrying about new sights. I tend to be a more instinctive shooter, as long as I'm getting two inch groups at 7 meters I'm happy. I have to say I'm not as quick as I once was but that will come back. I'll wait until the plastic sights break (which shouldn't take long :-) then take a look at the Warren's.

One thing that I have found interesting is the standard sights like to have the white dot on the front sight split the horizon of the rear sight. Instead of the tops of the sights being aligned the front sight likes to be high for me. This is true for both Glocks. Must be my old eyes. Maybe I should consider a shotgun :-)

Good luck in the search for the ever elusive, perfect all around sight.

[Al T.]

Moku, folks I worked for a few years back issued G22s with the plastic sights. I found when coaching new shooters, that taking a black felt tipped pen and marking out the white "U" on the rear sight worked well. That helped them focus on the front sight with out the annoyance of the rear sight.

[Moku2k]

Al, I was thinking about doing that. Might speed things up a bit.

[JV_]

that taking a black felt tipped pen and making out the white "U" on the rear sight worked well. That helped them focus on the front sight with out the annoyance of the rear sight.I do something similar, but I reverse the sight so the white is facing forward.

[BWT]

Here's another side, have we seen any sights that are nice but don't stand up well to usage?

I could've sworn I've read on this forum that there were some issues with vials backing out of Warren sights, is that correct?

[JV_]

Here's another side, have we seen any sights that are nice but don't stand up well to usage?TruGlo TFO.


I could've sworn I've read on this forum that there were some issues with vials backing out of Warren sights, is that correct?Yes, I had multiple M&P Warren front sight vials fall out, but I believe the issue has been rectified. I don't know if the problem was limited to Warren sights though, I *thought* it was the tube supplier/installer who had issues and it impacted multiple manufacturers (don't quote me on that).