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pablo
11-13-2015, 05:38 PM
http://www.lawofficer.com/articles/2015/11/award-for-not-using-force-could-endanger-officers.html


it was announced this week that the LAPD would create a “Preservation of Life” Award designed to reward officers for not using deadly force although it was warranted

I know they, that would be LAPD brass, care about an officer getting killed. I wonder how cute they think their award will be when they hand one out, then an officer shoots someone in a similar situation, and they get their asses sued off because they had acknowledged and previously awarded officers for using a reasonable alternative to deadly force.

HCM
11-13-2015, 09:15 PM
http://www.lawofficer.com/articles/2015/11/award-for-not-using-force-could-endanger-officers.html



I know they, that would be LAPD brass, care about an officer getting killed. I wonder how cute they think their award will be when they hand one out, then an officer shoots someone in a similar situation, and they get their asses sued off because they had acknowledged and previously awarded officers for using a reasonable alternative to deadly force.

Rename it the hesitation award. Absolute BS.

LSP552
11-13-2015, 09:58 PM
What could possibly go wrong formally rewarding bad tactics? This just once again proves that chiefs and politicians (basically the same) would rather deal with a dead or injured officer than one who won a gunfight.

voodoo_man
11-13-2015, 10:27 PM
....so you get an award one way or another?

Id put in for one with every citizen interaction.

PD Sgt.
11-13-2015, 10:30 PM
Echoing LSP, the more I hear crap like this the more I believe there are brass and politicians that truly see a dead officer as more cost effective than defending or paying out a lawsuit.

GardoneVT
11-13-2015, 10:55 PM
Echoing LSP, the more I hear crap like this the more I believe there are brass and politicians that truly see a dead officer as more cost effective than defending or paying out a lawsuit.

Dead criminal =
!BLACK LIVES MATTER!!"
"Institutional Racism!"
"Justice Department Civil Rights Investigation"
"Civil Lawsuit"


Dead LEO
=
Trite speech on duty and honor by a politician having neither.
"Mr. Career F. Ugckup shot a cop after thirty felony arrests for attempted murder and two hours of jail time ,which was paroled to 15 minutes after he was admitted to a felon diversion program .

We have three talking heads on the evening news tonight to discuss exactly why it is this tragedy happened."

BehindBlueI's
11-13-2015, 10:58 PM
....so you get an award one way or another?

Id put in for one with every citizen interaction.

"Sir, can you hold this knife for a minute? Thanks. CONTROL, HE'S GOT A KNIFE!! Ok, great, thanks, I'll take that back now. Would you sign this form saying I didn't shoot you when you held that knife? Great. Now, about this lost wallet report..."

voodoo_man
11-14-2015, 08:20 AM
"Sir, can you hold this knife for a minute? Thanks. CONTROL, HE'S GOT A KNIFE!! Ok, great, thanks, I'll take that back now. Would you sign this form saying I didn't shoot you when you held that knife? Great. Now, about this lost wallet report..."

Stranger things have happened...

LSP552
11-14-2015, 09:49 AM
We have all seen cases where co-workers did STUPID stuff and God intervened to let them police another day. We just shouldn't incentive it! My old agency has issued valor awards for similar stupid shit, but at least never created one specifically for that. I've also heard it put "we can't give awards for shooting people." But when the head of Public Affairs was running the awards program, what can you expect.

Coyotesfan97
11-15-2015, 07:07 PM
Call it the everything's good until it isn't award.

We've had the awards committee deny SWAT guys awards for heroism because they were just doing their jobs right?

indigoss
11-15-2015, 07:47 PM
This coincides with screwing up and getting promoted. There is no doubt it's more costly to fight civil lawsuits than to lose a cop. Litigation dictates law enforcement, unfortunately. The job has changed to the point where I rarely recommend someone to get into law enforcement. However, if idiots are going to be rewarded, candidates are endless, lol.

BehindBlueI's
11-15-2015, 08:37 PM
We have all seen cases where co-workers did STUPID stuff and God intervened to let them police another day. We just shouldn't incentive it! My old agency has issued valor awards for similar stupid shit, but at least never created one specifically for that. I've also heard it put "we can't give awards for shooting people." But when the head of Public Affairs was running the awards program, what can you expect.

Reminds me of outcome based awards. Both of these are real incidents that started as a suicidal person.

Incident #1: "If you come in, I'm killing myself!" Officers kick in the door, disarm him, get medals of bravery.
Incident #2: "If you come in, I'm killing myself!" Officers kick in the door, guy shoots himself in the grape. Officers get suspended.

That's horse shit. Either policy is "kick the door" or policy is "don't kick the door". The COP doesn't get to decide if the guy is dedicated to pop himself or not. The suicidal jackwagon decides that. The correct answer is either both are worthy of suspension or both are worthy of a medal because THE COPS DID THE EXACT SAME THING IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION. The only difference is what the guy inside decided to do.

(I was not in either incident, but they were both on my district and #2 involved a classmate of mine who's since resigned and moved on.)

BaiHu
11-15-2015, 08:48 PM
Reminds me of outcome based awards. Both of these are real incidents that started as a suicidal person.

Incident #1: "If you come in, I'm killing myself!" Officers kick in the door, disarm him, get medals of bravery.
Incident #2: "If you come in, I'm killing myself!" Officers kick in the door, guy shoots himself in the grape. Officers get suspended.

That's horse shit. Either policy is "kick the door" or policy is "don't kick the door". The COP doesn't get to decide if the guy is dedicated to pop himself or not. The suicidal jackwagon decides that. The correct answer is either both are worthy of suspension or both are worthy of a medal because THE COPS DID THE EXACT SAME THING IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION. The only difference is what the guy inside decided to do.

(I was not in either incident, but they were both on my district and #2 involved a classmate of mine who's since resigned and moved on.)
Sadly, the world seems to chase the randomness of outcomes rather than chase the consistency of properly executed performance.

I'm sorry, as a citizen, that I can never seem to do enough for those who risk everything for those who care for nothing but their own immediate gratification; simultaneously threatening everyone's livelihood around them.

Luger
11-16-2015, 04:03 AM
It's pretty simple.

If an officer is murdered, the public will be verry sympathitic with "their" police force.

If an officer shoots a suspect dead, the publics reaction will be neutral, at best. In the worst case you'll have a riot.

That's why police in the uk don't carry firearms, german police are often told to use pepperspray in a knife attack and the LAPD creates this award.

Sammy1
11-16-2015, 05:14 PM
Going through a horrible situation (mostly the BS after the fact) and doing ok and coming out alive deserves recognition. I feel awarding someone for not using deadly force is a step in the wrong direction. When you use DF you have or perceive there is no alternative, you don't have a choice. So there should not be recognition for someone not using deadly force because they obviously had a choice and or didn't step up to the plate and made a dangerous situation worse. IMHO.

TSH
11-16-2015, 08:43 PM
Going through a horrible situation (mostly the BS after the fact) and doing ok and coming out alive deserves recognition. I feel awarding someone for not using deadly force is a step in the wrong direction. When you use DF you have or perceive there is no alternative, you don't have a choice. So there should not be recognition for someone not using deadly force because they obviously had a choice and or didn't step up to the plate and made a dangerous situation worse. IMHO.

What will likely happen is that an officer will receive the award, and later another officer, facing a very similar situation, will use deadly force and get sued because it has already been demonstrated deadly force is not necessary under those circumstances.

LtDave
11-18-2015, 09:09 PM
My former agency had an award for "commendable restraint". It came into being at least 15 to 20 years ago.

BehindBlueI's
11-18-2015, 10:45 PM
My former agency had an award for "commendable restraint". It came into being at least 15 to 20 years ago.

Would I be eligible if I did not call someone a raging asshole, despite all evidence pointing to the fact they were a raging asshole? What if it was a sergeant?

PD Sgt.
11-19-2015, 02:13 AM
Would I be eligible if I did not call someone a raging asshole, despite all evidence pointing to the fact they were a raging asshole? What if it was a sergeant?

I believe they award it with a star device....

Rex G
11-21-2015, 03:19 AM
We do not have an award for withholding the use of force, but a chief in the Eighties did make a big deal of publicly praising an officer who back-pedaled for a distance of well over 100 feet, rather than shoot an advancing knife-wielding person.

I am glad that we had a different chief by 1993, when I stood my ground against a knife-wielding person advancing upon me. (He also had an SL20 in the other hand, which had been snatched from an officer minutes earlier.)

LtDave
11-21-2015, 09:44 PM
Would I be eligible if I did not call someone a raging asshole, despite all evidence pointing to the fact they were a raging asshole? What if it was a sergeant?

I'd write it up for you.

pablo
11-22-2015, 06:10 AM
Would I be eligible if I did not call someone a raging asshole, despite all evidence pointing to the fact they were a raging asshole? What if it was a sergeant?

If you're a fan of irony "punk that hides behind his stripes" is even more fun and you can't get dinged for using profanity