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Mr_White
11-13-2015, 10:46 AM
Week 138: 2 to 3x5 in 5

Results may be posted until December 13th, 2015.

Designed by: Unknown
Range: Varies
Target: 3x5 card, placed horizontally
Start position: Holstered
Rounds fired: Varies

This is a variation of a classic walkback drill.

You can begin with the target at any distance you choose. At the start signal, draw and fire two shots to the 3x5 card with a 5 second par time. If you make both hits, increase the distance by two yards. If you miss or go over the par time, the drill is over.

Alternatively, if your range does not allow drawing from the holster, you can start in ready position of your choice and use a 4 second par time.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Start position (ready, holstered, concealed?)
Starting distance
Distance of farthest hits under par time
Anything you noticed


Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

JHC
11-13-2015, 10:52 AM
Week 138: 2 to 3x5 in 5

3x5 card, placed horizontally


Drat! He's on to me.

breakingtime91
11-13-2015, 11:28 AM
I need a indoor range.. its in the thirties here and the wind has been crazy for the past week. I really like this drill..

JHC
11-13-2015, 11:41 AM
I need a indoor range.. its in the thirties here and the wind has been crazy for the past week. I really like this drill..

It sounds just what I was looking for to get balanced from my slowfire time. Kevin B introduced the idea to us, he'd been exposed to it years ago somewhere.

JHC
11-15-2015, 01:47 PM
RTF2 G17 from Dark Star AIWB

HORIZONTAL 3X5! ;)

Started at 5 yds; 7 yds-GO, 9 yds-GO, then 11 yards - GO. Missed both at 13.

FWIW I repeated the drill with the 3x5 vertical with identical score - hits at 11, missed at 13.

Not much to see but since I documented it; https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/23028594132/in/dateposted-public/

Clobbersaurus
11-15-2015, 08:17 PM
Beretta 92D Centurion
Start position: concealed, JMCK AIWB under a knit shirt
Starting distance: 7 yards
Distance of farthest hits under par time: 7 yards 3.27 sec I dropped the second shot. :mad:

Luke
11-15-2015, 08:28 PM
Made it to ten yards. All hits were made in 2.50ish which I thought was odd (good) for me. Decided to stop at 10 to end on a high note.

JHC
11-15-2015, 08:41 PM
It was hard to use 5 sec on 2 shots and feel in a smooth rhythm. That would take some practice.

42TNred
11-15-2015, 09:51 PM
Colt Govt 1911 shooting 200 grain SWC

Starting from low ready.

Starting distance: 3 yards

Distance of longest hit under par: 11 yards

Fun drill but this was made tougher by the fact I had a conceal carry class in the 7 bays to my right shooting at the same time as me, making it impossible to hear the beep on my timer, so I had to watch for the timer to start then look up and try to acquire the target.

Range1
11-16-2015, 05:06 PM
Pistol: Gen 4 Glock 23 with 9mm conversion from CompTac OWB stongside holster under open front vest
Start position: Holstered and concealed
Starting distance: Run 1 was at 5 yards; Run 2 was at 7 yards
Distance of farthest hits under par time: Missed 1 shot at 13 yards Run 1; Missed 1 shot at 15 yards

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss102/Range1826/20151116_133131_zps92vkyjuk.jpg (http://s566.photobucket.com/user/Range1826/media/20151116_133131_zps92vkyjuk.jpg.html)
Run 1

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss102/Range1826/20151116_133127_zpsuwjo9ovh.jpg (http://s566.photobucket.com/user/Range1826/media/20151116_133127_zpsuwjo9ovh.jpg.html)
Run 2

Tried just the 15 yard line a few more times but kept dropping 1 shot, just could not get both on in under 5 seconds.

GRV
11-19-2015, 02:21 PM
Gen4 G17
From holster with concealment (t shirt). JRC AIWB-CDA-II
Started at 7 yds
Further hits in par time: 13 yds, but cheated at 9 yds


7 yds: 3.47, tight group just left of the T (wasn't expecting that)
9 yds: 3.64, 1 high (in beige in picture)

I wasn't really happy with having only spent 4 rounds on this...felt stupid. So I tried again and took into consideration how much more time I had.

9 yds: 5.01, both in
...ugh... eyemahm let me have this one anyway.

11 yds: 4.79, both in
13 yds: 4.71, both in
times and hits both getting better on these

15 yds: 3.89, 1 very high
I rushed because someone looked like they wanted the range cold. Decided to take a second shot at it.

15 yds: 5.12, both in
I bet I could have gotten it a bit faster if I gave it a third shot, but missing it twice seemed like pretty distinct failure to settle at.

4475

Clusterfrack
11-19-2015, 10:15 PM
Gun: Grayguns Sig p320, USPSA Production rig

Start: holstered, hands at sides

7 yds 1.83, 2.69
9 yds 1.78, 2.57
11 yds 1.82, 2.54
13 yds 2.11, 3.01
15 yds 1.88, 2.85 (miss low by 1/2")

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/19/1f6a031d688911568058800f1750e323.jpg

JHC
11-20-2015, 08:00 AM
Superb shooting!!!

Clusterfrack
11-20-2015, 09:53 AM
Thanks JHC!

WobblyPossum
11-20-2015, 01:41 PM
4524
Glock 19 Gen3 from an Eidolon concealed under a long sleeve t-shirt and thin fleece jacket
5y: 2/2 1.87, 0.64 =2.51s
7y: 2/2 1.94, 1.12 =3.06s
9y: 2/2 2.39, 1.27 =3.66s
11y: 2/2 2.73, 1.14 =3.87s
13y: 2/2 2.57, 1.01 =3.58s
15y 1/2 2.80, 0.95 = 3.75s

My miss at 15y shot right through the time I wrote down for my 5y run, forcing me to do math again. Two of the hits (the ones that look like they're right above the card) barely made it. The edge of the grease ring is just barely breaking the edge of the card.

Overall, I was really pleased with myself.

JHC
11-20-2015, 06:04 PM
I'm pleased with you! Going in I thought 15 yds was reachable but even 13 was not. I'm working on this skill now.

WobblyPossum
11-20-2015, 06:11 PM
I'm pleased with you! Going in I thought 15 yds was reachable but even 13 was not. I'm working on this skill now.

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while ;). I watch your video'd drills when you put them up and you're a pretty good pistolero.

JHC
11-20-2015, 06:26 PM
Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while ;). I watch your video'd drills when you put them up and you're a pretty good pistolero.

The 15 yard stage of the 99 Drill ruins me. Much like this walkback. Must work on this sort of thing more.

eyemahm
11-21-2015, 04:55 PM
I ran this twice, both times from a CCC Shaggy under a t shirt. I don't shoot particularly quickly, so getting a sense for what 5 seconds feels like took some adjustment and consequently I went slightly over the par time on a couple occasions.

USP (LEM)
Started at 7 yards, failed at 9 (dropped 1 shot).


USP Expert (TDA)
Cleaned 7 and 9 yards, then it got interesting...

At 11 yards, I got both hits in 5.21. So decided to shoot again..
This time, I got both hits under the par time.

At 13 yards - clean under 5 s.

At 15 yards, I got both shots in 5.55.
Second attempt - both shots in 5.18.
Third attempt! - both shots in 4.49.

15 yards was the outer edge of what I thought I could do, even though I was 6/6 on the card. Turns out I was right..

Tried twice at 17 yards and missed 3/4 shots.

scw2
11-21-2015, 10:44 PM
Ran this once today, after Sweet 16 as a warmup. Used my CZ 75 from low ready on a 4 second par timer.

Cleaned at 3 yards, 5 yards, and 7 yards.

Ran 9 yards twice, going 1 for 2 each time, I think throwing 2nd shot of both to try and make sure I beat the time, leading to thrown shots.

4559

Will want to run this more and see if I can improve over the next few weeks. Grip and sight tracking and trigger pull will need work. Hopefully I can get to 9 or 11 yards before this DOTW ends. :)

bigslim
11-23-2015, 04:30 PM
Start position: Concealed
Starting distance: 3 yards
Distance of farthest hits under par time: 7 yards
Anything you noticed: 5 seconds is longer than you think

Start position: Concealed
Starting distance: 3 yards
Distance of farthest hits under par time: 9 yards
Anything you noticed: I made good hits at 11 yards but was over time at 5.94

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm18/bigslim3k/IMG_1628_zpsfeanbzno.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/bigslim3k/media/IMG_1628_zpsfeanbzno.jpg.html)

Mike

taadski
11-23-2015, 11:40 PM
I shot this from my duty holster, a Safariland 6360. Pistol was a Sig 226. Stock but for a FO front sight. I shot it right after the Pistol NOW! DotW. It was cold as balls.

10 yards 2.86 clean.
15 yards 4.69 clean. Numb fingered the draw.
20 yards 3.78. 2 misses both about half an inch below the card edge. WTF is up with this horizontal card crap anyway! ;)
I shot a couple more iterations at the 20 b/c that pissed me off.
3.66 20 yards clean.
4.42 20 yards clean.


http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpsedqbkipw.jpg

JHC
11-24-2015, 06:05 AM
Smokin!

taadski
11-24-2015, 01:05 PM
Thanks bud. I really didn't have a good grasp of where the wheels would fall off on this one. In hindsight, 5 seconds feels like quite a good chunk of time. Then again, like all par time stuff, if one's working speed fits within the constraints of the par, it doesn't seem that hard. If it doesn't, it smacks of impossible and requires "pushing and trying". And we all know how well that usually turns out. Reminds me of Roger's in that respect.



t

JHC
11-24-2015, 01:17 PM
Thanks bud. I really didn't have a good grasp of where the wheels would fall off on this one. In hindsight, 5 seconds feels like quite a good chunk of time. Then again, like all par time stuff, if one's working speed fits within the constraints of the par, it doesn't seem that hard. If it doesn't, it smacks of impossible and requires "pushing and trying". And we all know how well that usually turns out. Reminds me of Roger's in that respect.



t


Yeah I warmed up a little for this one to get the feel of 5 seconds. When I tried to take all 5 it felt less comfortable than just shooting to the sights comfortably which was more like 3.5.

BN
11-24-2015, 02:31 PM
First try:
Start holstered, open carry.
Starting distance 5 yards
Distance of farthest hits under par time: 9 yards
Times: 3.56, 3.69, 3.77, 5.04

2nd try:
Holstered open carry
start 5 yards
Farthest hits: 11 yards, missed both shots at 13 yards.
Times: 2.85, 2.87, 3.46, 3.60, 3.87.

4613

Things I noticed. I planned ahead as to how long it would take me to draw, get a sight picture and fire the first shot and reacquire the sights and fire the second shot. There should be time. I like drive the dot sights. The horizontal card is better because I can see the sides of the card. :) At 13 yards, I yanked the trigger. I knew it was a miss. :(

scw2
11-25-2015, 06:13 PM
Start position: low ready
Starting distance: 5 yards
Distance of farthest hits under par time: 7 yards
Missed 1 on my first attempt at 7, so ran it again without issue twice. Went 0 for 2 at 9 yd, so just ran it a few more times at 7 yards to get some reps in.

Anything I noticed:
Wheels fall off at 9 yards
Need to work on faster pressout and take more time aligning
Need to be able to press faster without anticipation creeping in
Need to also video myself to see how much muzzle flip there is in recoil, but doing drills just looking at the sight in recoil is helping.

BN
11-25-2015, 06:27 PM
Need to work on faster pressout and take more time aligning


I've found that on a difficult target, that if I do a fast draw and press out, it leaves me more time to aim. ;)

Mr_White
11-25-2015, 06:31 PM
Just my unsolicited two cents, but:


Need to also video myself to see how much muzzle flip there is in recoil

Less muzzle flip is better than more muzzle flip.


doing drills just looking at the sight in recoil is helping.

But, the exact amount of muzzle flip, at least in the kinds of guns and calibers we are talking about, is dwarfed in importance by the consistency of the muzzle returning to the point of aim.

The biggest thing to be after here is for the front sight to lift and return consistently to the point of aim, and for you to see and be aware of it while it's doing so.

scw2
11-25-2015, 06:42 PM
Just my unsolicited two cents, but:



Less muzzle flip is better than more muzzle flip.



But, the exact amount of muzzle flip, at least in the kinds of guns and calibers we are talking about, is dwarfed in importance by the consistency of the muzzle returning to the point of aim.

The biggest thing to be after here is for the front sight to lift and return consistently to the point of aim, and for you to see and be aware of it while it's doing so.

Thanks, and those are a great points. Saw a Miculek video with slow mo comparison on locked vs unlocked wrists and that dip below the centerline he said is what causes the dispersion in follow up shots and makes for slower shooting to boot. I was going to take a video to see how little upward recoil there was but your point about returning without dipping below is something I'll keep in mind.

scw2
11-25-2015, 09:55 PM
I've found that on a difficult target, that if I do a fast draw and press out, it leaves me more time to aim. ;)

Yep, I need to work on my pressout speed without completely screwing up alignment when I hit extension :( Looks so easy but putting it all together is funa dn challenging

taadski
11-25-2015, 10:19 PM
I do more of a snap that thang' out to full extension as fast as possible and THEN row through the press as required for the difficulty of the shot.


But that's just me. ;)

breakingtime91
11-25-2015, 10:27 PM
I do more of a snap that thang' out to full extension as fast as possible and THEN row through the press as required for the difficulty of the shot.


But that's just me. ;)

lol same. press out just doesn't work for me, sometimes I wish it did.

MVS
11-26-2015, 12:15 PM
4639

Concealed AIWB
Started at 5 yards. Missed with both guns at 13.
Another drill that looked easier than it was. 5 seconds is a lot of time but I found myself not using it all, usually finishing in about 3.5 with the irons and 3 with the dot.

JHC
11-26-2015, 01:14 PM
+1 re harder than it looked! I didn't expect to hit the wall after 11 yards. This and more 99 Drill work coming up.

taadski
11-26-2015, 01:16 PM
4639

Concealed AIWB
Started at 5 yards. Missed with both guns at 13.
Another drill that looked easier than it was. 5 seconds is a lot of time but I found myself not using it all, usually finishing in about 3.5 with the irons and 3 with the dot.


Brownie points for doing it in the rain! ;)

MVS
11-26-2015, 05:26 PM
Brownie points for doing it in the rain! ;)

Ha, thanks. It started pouring shortly after I got done with the DOTW. I had to stick it out since this time of year I have no daylight left on workdays.

JHC
11-27-2015, 01:25 PM
Tried again with RTF2 G17. Got 2 hits at 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13 yards this time. Using 4+ seconds more efficiently at the 11 and 13 yard marks. Missed from 15 yds.

BN
11-27-2015, 06:57 PM
4656

4657

4658

bigslim
11-30-2015, 05:02 PM
2 to 3 x 5 in 5
Start position: Concealed
Starting distance: 3 yards
Distance of farthest hits under par time: 11 yards
Anything you noticed:
3 yards- 2.78
5 yards- 3.53
7 yards- 3.57
9 yards- 3.67
11 yards- 4.28
13 yards- 3.95 -1, 4.47 -1, 4.06 -1

I don't know why but I could not land 2 hits @ 13 yards to save my life today.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm18/bigslim3k/IMG_1681_zpsdnmmnxm4.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/bigslim3k/media/IMG_1681_zpsdnmmnxm4.jpg.html)

Mike

scw2
12-04-2015, 11:57 PM
Shot this a few times today from low ready with my CZ 75

Didn't do a true walkback, but wanted to see if I could improve between runs and see where the wheels really start to fall off.
-Started at 5 and 7 yards clean.
-Moved back to 8 yards, threw one on one attempt, then cleaned the next one.
-9 yards, cleared it first time and remembered wanting to rush myself since I was too slow on getting the gun up, so I wanted to rush it but told myself to calm down and get clean trigger press and sight pictures. Surprised both were in.
-10 and 11 yards, clean
-12 yards went 0 for 2 and 1 for 2, and gave up. Need to work on getting gun up and getting the sight picture faster I think, plus cleaner trigger press so shots dont tend to hit a bit low

4797

DEG
12-06-2015, 11:26 AM
Ran this three times cold this morning. All from concealment (AIWB) with Fricke gear and a Gen4 G19.

Run 1. Start at 3, stopped at 3 (missed one).

Run 2. Start at 3, stopped at 7 (missed one).

Run 3. Start at 3, stopped at 11 (missed one).

All hits were within par time, just pushed the second shots a bit too fast. That darn horizontal card...

Picture of run 3:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/06/491eecc3afe5c24eacf8b94aa9799582.jpg