When do you divorce a handgun?

[masternave]

I've been a glock guy for a couple of years. Put a class or three into it, a small bag of holsters and magazines and accoutrements. It's familiar, dependable, does the job.

Now I've been flirting with this VP9.

It shoots wherever I point it. There are some parts to it I'm still getting accustomed to, but out of the box I shoot *much* better with it. I haven't gotten down to timing or splits because I'm a total amateur, but it just feels like cheating sometimes.

I don't know if it's the gun or me… but I'm wondering if it matters.

When do you guys decide (if ever!) to sell out of a system, especially if you've put a lot of money and time into it? Have you ever done it and hen regretted it? What steps do you take to figure out if it's a mechanical issue with the piece, or a personal issue? (trigger press etc.)


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[GardoneVT]

Two criterion determine whether I change guns. I'd know, cause I've done it wrong a lot.

One: determine the logistical cost of new holsters, mags ,sights, and so forth. Do the math for a 1-1 match in capability.IE, old gun has night sights price what the new one would be with them too.

With some brands, especially premium Euro ones like HK, the cost of buying new mags and holsters alone can ruin a transition .

[41magfan]

I've always felt like the main objective in all forms of shooting was hitting my intended target. If "A" does that demonstrably better than "B" - with no insurmountable shortcomings - I'm probably going to go with the gun that produces a better result for me unless there's some compelling reason not to .... and I realize there can be a host of reasons not to.

[StraitR]

First, Glock seems to be the platform that most people love to hate. I've been shooting and carrying Glocks for a decade, with a few short affairs here and there. I also have a VP9, and I too shot it better right out of the box. It blew my mind, TBH. I've wrestled with the idea of a platform change, but I shudder at the thought of the financial costs of doing so as my support system runs DEEP for Glocks.

So many mags, plethora of holsters, sights, accessories... Aside from the monetary investment in the two (three) new pistols, the amount of money it would cost to replace all that support gear could fund close to 10k rounds of 9mm. My preferred holsters aren't cheap, nor are they readily available, VP9 mags aren't cheap, and then there's fact of hunting down all that gear, and the time that takes. Speaking of time, there's the hassle of selling it all off.

Also, you cannot discount the fact of massive aftermarket support and the availability of replacement parts, factory and otherwise. This is NOT the case for HK.

Lastly, with Glocks, I have been able to achieve full integration for a carry system, i.e. G43->G19->G17, and nobody else can do that.

Dammit, I freaking hate Glocks, but the pragmatic me won't abandon the system for the reasons above, and probably a few that I left out. I have my "Passion" guns when I need to feel warm and fuzzy, but I carry Glocks because I've found nothing that can do what they do better, from A to Z.

[psalms144.1]

There's a reason I haven't bought a VP9 to try out yet - I'm scared of what it'll do. I've been coming back to GLOCK from trying everything else for over 20 years now - and I have a HUGE collection of holsters for guns I don't own anymore, and, for some unfathomable reason, a small box full of "take off sights" from guns I don't own anymore. I have probably 25 magazines for my 9mm Glocks (three each from the primary pistols, and a STACK of G17 "reload" mags). All my GLOCKs wear the Ameriglo sights that work best for me, and aren't available for nearly any other make/model of pistol. To "divorce" myself from the GLOCKs that I love to hate (and hate to love) would be a major, major undertaking.

BUT, if/when I get a VP9, IF it shoots demonstrably "better" than my G19, I might be in the hurt locker. But, for me, DEMONSTRABLY is the key word. Before you spend a ton of money on a "better" pistol or more mags/holsters/sights/etc - GET A TIMER. Work the DoW or simple "speed" drills ON THE TIMER with both pistols, and see which one (if either) is really "better." If the timer is a tie, then the question boils down to concealment. Can you conceal the (demonstrably) larger VP9 well enough with your given attire that it can realistically take the place of the G19? If not, then your answer is clear. If it shoots the same (or better) at speed, and you can conceal it, then why not go for it?

I do agree whole-heartedly with 41magfan that putting the round where you want it under stress is the ultimate goal of any combat pistol, but, frankly, working with the G19 has proven that it can do anything that any reasonable competitor (1911s and the P7M8 notwithstanding) can do (accuracy wise) if I do my part. The rub is, for me, I have to be MUCH more conscious of things like trigger finger placement and trigger press on pure accuracy drills with the GLOCK than I do with many other pistols. Doesn't mean it can't be done, just means, a lot of time, I don't do my part when I'm rushing things on a long/difficult shot...

[HCM]

One thing to keep in mind is there is often a "honeymoon period" with a new gun, likely because you are consciously or unconsciously focusing more on your fundamentals. You may shoot the VP 9 markedly better or it may just be the honeymoon phase. I would give it six months to a year before I started selling off all my Glocks.

[okie john]

GardoneVT is pretty close.

Good holsters tend to cost the same for anything worth having, but you'll need new ones and you'll get 50-65% of purchase cost for any that you sell, plus there can be a lengthy wait time if you go with something truly odd.

Costs for mags and spare parts can vary too, but you have to consider extended parts life and maintenance intervals when you're talking about HK.

Until you run both guns on a timer, you'll never really know which one you shoot better. And you have to do this over a period of time to eliminate bias based on experience with your existing system from the mix. I'm also a Glock guy, and I check out potential replacements all the time. I find that I shoot the new ones very well at first, probably because I'm really focused on fundamentals. Then my skill level with Glocks picks up, probably because I'm really focused on fundamentals. After about 1k rounds, performance of both pistols will be all but identical except for 1-2 edge cases, like slow-fire accuracy at 50 and 100 yards. So I stick with Glocks.

But if you just plain like the VP9 more, then go with it and suck up the extra cost.


Okie John

[JonInWA]

I'll echo what StraitR, psalms144.1, HCM and okie john have already very succinctly said. If there truly is a significant benefit to be derived by going to the VP9, then go for it. Obviously, however, the devil is in the details of objectively determining if there really are significant improvements to be derived from making such a paradigm platform shift.

Personally, I side on the side of skepticism/keeping the Glocks. While the HK undoubtedly has more individual grip tailoring options, at the end of the day you have to determine if their ergonomic benefits are really worth the switch. Glocks tend to be durable, reliable, and exceptionally easy to field, use, and service-including enjoying exceptional aftermarket support from Glock and a plethora of other manufacturers. Detailed disassembly is easily performed by the operator, as are component swaps and trigger adjustments via component switches.

And then there's the accumulated muscle memory built up, along with holsters, sights, and magazines you've got.

In my opinion, from a due diligence standpoint you've got essentially 2 hurdles to surmount as an integral part of your assessment process:

1. Is the VP9 significantly, quantifiably better in critical use/performance aspects? and

2. Does the significance of improvement justify the cost outlay and the "transaction cost" of essentially starting from "ground zero" on a new system-from both an equipment and training standpoint?

If the answer is "yes" then drive on with the VP9. But I'd spend some significant time on it before divesting yourself of your Glocks-you might ultimately end up dissatisfied with the VP9, or hithero undiscovered flaws may pop up with it-it's still a relatively new and unfielded platform, regardless of HK's reputation on their other platforms.

Otherwise, you might be better off spending your resources on increased training with your Glocks.

Best, Jon

[JustOneGun]

I've been a glock guy for a couple of years. Put a class or three into it, a small bag of holsters and magazines and accoutrements. It's familiar, dependable, does the job.

Now I've been flirting with this VP9.

It shoots wherever I point it. There are some parts to it I'm still getting accustomed to, but out of the box I shoot *much* better with it. I haven't gotten down to timing or splits because I'm a total amateur, but it just feels like cheating sometimes.

I don't know if it's the gun or me… but I'm wondering if it matters.

When do you guys decide (if ever!) to sell out of a system, especially if you've put a lot of money and time into it? Have you ever done it and hen regretted it? What steps do you take to figure out if it's a mechanical issue with the piece, or a personal issue? (trigger press etc.)


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You didn't say what you are using the gun for. That can make a difference. For Self defense I would think that if you have never put your Glock on the clock then changing too soon can inhibit progress. If you've made the easy gains and have timed yourself then it is easy to put another gun on the timer with just a bit of practice and make a judgement as to which one you might shoot better.

If you haven't put each gun to the test on a timer then perhaps it is how the gun feels? There is a big difference between feel and testing outcome. That is certainly true for newer shooters. Or like me, a de-trained old retiree... (-:

And if it's not for self defense then what GardoneVT said.

[Mr_White]

When you catch it on the range making time with another shooter.

[RJ]

You know already.

You posted this thread. It is time.

Sure, your Glock does it all, is reliable, and always there when you need something, you know, done.

It just doesn't have that "zing" anymore. It's plain features stare at you as you toss it, uncleaned, back in the truck. "I'll get to it next time", you say. Even though you never do.

Your initial daily shooting sessions, at first lasting well after dark, have devolved into maybe once a week.

Now, you don't even, really, want to shoot it once a month. Frankly, you'd be ok if someone else shot it once in a while.

But the VP9.

Wow.

Just handling that fine polygonal barrel gets your pulse going. Not to mention that polished feed ramp shining back in your face...all while you enjoy the snick snick of the slide racking with Germanic precision...the magazine locks in place like a BMW door shutting - firmly, assuringly solid.

You feel like the rounds land in the X ring, as if by magic...effortless...

My advice?

Just do it. :cool:

[HopetonBrown]

I've been a glock guy for a couple of years. Put a class or three into it, a small bag of holsters and magazines and accoutrements. It's familiar, dependable, does the job.

Now I've been flirting with this VP9.

It shoots wherever I point it. There are some parts to it I'm still getting accustomed to, but out of the box I shoot *much* better with it. I haven't gotten down to timing or splits because I'm a total amateur, but it just feels like cheating sometimes.



You don't need a pro to use a Pro Timer. I've been shooting a boring Gen 3 G17 lately with no stippling, a TTI connector kit and Dawson sights. I handled a VP9 last week and it felt better in the hand, but I don't think it really matters that much and it'd cost a lot to buy 2 of them, the mags, the holsters, and there isn't a sight set I like for them.

Gabe White said something that I liked, that I'll totally rephrase because I can only recall his sentiments, in that the Glock is boring, which is a good thing, because you can get past the fixation on hardware and concentrate on the software.

[Trooper224]

One thing to keep in mind is there is often a "honeymoon period" with a new gun, likely because you are consciously or unconsciously focusing more on your fundamentals. You may shoot the VP 9 markedly better or it may just be the honeymoon phase. I would give it six months to a year before I started selling off all my Glocks.

Wisdom here.

[Trooper224]

You know already.

You posted this thread. It is time.

Sure, your Glock does it all, is reliable, and always there when you need something, you know, done.

It just doesn't have that "zing" anymore. It's plain features stare at you as you toss it, uncleaned, back in the truck. "I'll get to it next time", you say. Even though you never do.

Your initial daily shooting sessions, at first lasting well after dark, have devolved into maybe once a week.

Now, you don't even, really, want to shoot it once a month. Frankly, you'd be ok if someone else shot it once in a while.

But the VP9.

Wow.

Just handling that fine polygonal barrel gets your pulse going. Not to mention that polished feed ramp shining back in your face...all while you enjoy the snick snick of the slide racking with Germanic precision...the magazine locks in place like a BMW door shutting - firmly, assuringly solid.

You feel like the rounds land in the X ring, as if by magic...effortless...

My advice?

Just do it. :cool:

I think Clion Noir is posting here under the pseusonym Rich Jenkins. ;)

[YVK]

Gabe, consider getting 15 likes for that post.

Shooting log helps to make such decisions. If you find that you've not shot gun A for 2 years, maybe it is time.

Besides, there are more aspects to that than shooting. AIWB carry (soon), ability to eat bad ammo, user maintenance, aftermarket, mag commonality with smaller and bigger models, Glock wins it all. Don't hurry.

[Mr_White]

Gabe, consider getting 15 likes for that post.

Shooting log helps to make such decisions. If you find that you've not shot gun A for 2 years, maybe it is time.

Besides, there are more aspects to that than shooting. AIWB carry (soon), ability to eat bad ammo, user maintenance, aftermarket, mag commonality with smaller and bigger models, Glock wins it all. Don't hurry.

To get fifteen likes, I would need to have said: "When you catch it on the range in another shooter's pants."

[60167]

I've danced between Glocks and M&P's for the last three years. I started with Glocks, went exclusively with M&P's for a period and now I'm back to 95% Glock. I WANT to run M&P's- but I've had nothing but mechanical problems with them.

This following piece of advice will not be sexy or fun, but it's the conclusion that I've come to. Pick the gun that you shoot well and stick with it. There will always be something new coming around, and you will spend a fortune trying to keep up with the next big thing. I could kick myself for all the money I've wasted going from one platform to the next only to re-purchase guns and holsters.

Buy into a platform, then purchase a ton of mags, holsters and ammo. Don't look back. The grass is always greener. As always, YMMV

[JustOneGun]

To get fifteen likes, I would need to have said: "When you catch it on the range in another shooter's pants."



When you find another barrel in your pistol and it says, "What? I'm aftermarket"

[45dotACP]

Grass is always greener.

You said you're new. Keep the Glock. Get to A class (or IDPA Master) and reward yourself with buying a new type of gun. I was pretty ghey for Beretta 92 pistols for a bit, but I'm under no illusions that any gun ever will make a shoot better.

That's on me, and thus I practice.

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[BehindBlueI's]

, but I'm under no illusions that any gun ever will make a shoot better.

That's on me, and thus I practice.

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I'll disagree. I can shoot a Glock ok, better than most. I REALLY wanted to like the Glock. I got one for free. I love the idea of a duty and a backup taking the same mag, I love the simplicity and the easy maintenance.

But I can't shoot it as well as a Sig. Years and tens of thousands of rounds and good instructors and lots of practice. I shoot my P series Sigs better. I shoot my revolvers better. Every gun is not a fit for every hand.

[ffhounddog]

I do it when vdm and LL tell me too.

[JTQ]

If you want to switch, I say go for it. However, changing from one polymer striker fired gun to another polymer striker fired gun doesn't seem to change things very much to me.

If you had a Glock and decided you wanted a DA/SA hammer fired gun like a SIG, I could see the justification for the switch since it may give you something you don't have, or if you were shooting a 1911 and wanted a poly gun that held more bullets, that would be a logical switch, but going from one striker fired poly gun to another, unless there was something wrong with the first poly gun doesn't seem to gain you anything.

[LOKNLOD]

I've flirted with HK twice now - a long term relationship with the P30, and a recent fling with the VP9. I still have my Glocks. :shrug:

Maybe I'm the Lamar Odom of pistolcraft, but a little time spent screwing around with the exotic strangers has sent me back to my homely Glocks with a few new skills and a newfound appreciation each time.

[ubervic]

If you want to switch, I say go for it. However, changing from one polymer striker fired gun to another polymer striker fired gun doesn't seem to change things very much to me.

If you had a Glock and decided you wanted a DA/SA hammer fired gun like a SIG, I could see the justification for the switch since it may give you something you don't have, or if you were shooting a 1911 and wanted a poly gun that held more bullets, that would be a logical switch, but going from one striker fired poly gun to another, unless there was something wrong with the first poly gun doesn't seem to gain you anything.

This happens to be the reason why I just moved out of MPFS and into Sig: I am motivated by the new challenge of mastering a DA/SA hammer-fired gun.

[Nephrology]

I shoot my Glocks just fine. I often get tempted away by other designs but ultimately cash is at a premium for me.

I did notice that my shooting with Glocks improved dramatically with the gen 4 pistols - this is especially true of lower probability targets on a square range (15-20yd+ shots). On a timer in typical IDPA/USPSA target distances and configurations I have 0 complaints with Glocks, but I think the smaller gen4 frame just fits me a little better. I'll eventually pick up a Gen 4 G19 and maybe a gen 4 17, too, but I am in no rush.

Eventually I'd like to meander into an SA/DA pistol for the same reason I got a revolver - learning a new trigger system. that said, I'd never sell my glocks to do so. Would rather build a separate pile of gear, mags, etc. For this reason, I'll probably move into CZs when I do go to an SA/DA Gun - cheaper, but lots of room for customization and an all steel frame with wood grips is the only thing that'd get me to buy a new pistol.

[jslaughter]

I just bought a VP9 and I currently carry a G17. I'm looking to get out of the custom Gun thing the VP9 is supposed to be a plug and play gun. I like that Glocks are the new 1911. I'm ADHD with guns. I want to try out the VP9 and see. G17 will never be sold.

[StraitR]

In my first post, I reference the financial pitfalls of switching platforms, but I'd like to echo what others have stated about performance by sharing my recent (over the summer) look at switching from Glocks to the VP9. If the gains are measurable, across the board, and the gun just feels, tracks, and checks all the boxes, then a switch is reasonable, money be damned. However, if the performance isn't there but you're still burning for change, then it becomes more of a "Passion of the Gun" issue, see HERE (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11538-The-Passion-of-the-Gun).

I bought the VP9 early this year out of pure curiosity due to my insufferable boredom with Glocks (Passion of the Gun). Right out of the box, I shot the VP9 more accurately. To me, the VP9 just has more room for error when it comes to trigger manipulation than Glocks do. That is, it takes less effort to shoot accurately than my Glocks do. I had taken the gun straight from the counter to then stores indoor range, so all shooting was done slow fire. I immediately thought I found my Glock killer, and I was elated. Fast forward three weeks, and I had a Raven holster, 3 additional mags, and a 10-8 front FO sight. It was early March, and cold outside (I'm in Florda, clearly 60 degrees is cold) so I only had one more indoor shooting session prior to my first IDPA match. Again, accuracy was astonishing, with little effort.

First week of April, match time, and without knowing it, it was a classifier. Perfect litmus test for me, my VP9 with 300 slow fire rounds, and hundred or so dry fire presentations at home. What I found was, while I could shoot the VP9 like a laser at slow fire, I was measurably less accurate at speed, forcing me to slow down, which isn't my strong suit. In my 20's, back in the 90's, the old men (like me now?) at my local bowling pin match gave me the nickname Smoke n' Fire for my tendency to be overly happy on the trigger, to ill effect. I've never really slowed down, but my accuracy has caught up and now keeps pace. Anyway, I shot SSP Marksman, with good time (Smoke n' Fire), but the points down from accuracy were abysmal.

I went on to train for a couple months with the VP9, but never felt like I could see or track the front sight on the HK (with FO) like I could on Glocks (with 10-8 tritium). It didn't feel like the recoil was harder in the VP9, but rather heavier, if that makes sense. I don't know if this had to do with slide weight, bore axis, grip angle, or all of the above. The difference in split times were seen on my PPII as well, when making sure I got my hits. I finally asked my shooting buddy to video me shooting both, and I don't know if it's as noticeable to you, as it is to me being that I'm now seeing what I feel, but the VP9 is clearly not as flat shooting (for ME) as a Gen4 19. It also has a tendency to dip when returning to battery, forcing an ever so slight bowling motion to level out the sights.

Shooting was performed with a moderate grip, and I wasn't trying to drive either gun, as I wanted to see what the recoil impulse looked like. Admittedly, I let the Glock push me back more, and probably had more desire to see the VP9 perform as I was searching for a reason to switch platforms.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I felt it was relevant, and here are the vids...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fnT6dm3A18


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVRF_2DcChQ

[warpedcamshaft]

Cold logical method:

Shoot the Hackathorn Standards cold (show up, switch ammo to FMJ and shoot the standard) with each gun after a week or two of aggressive dry fire practice. Guys like Vickers, Defoor, and Hackathorn consider this a pretty good overall test of handgun skill.

If you don't shoot an expert score (250+) with your current gun, keep practicing with it until you can, unless you have freakishly small hands and can't hold a Glock. After you can run an expert score cold, shoot each cold after a week of dry fire practice. If the difference between the two is more than 10-15 points on a run through the Hack, then think about switching.

[ralph]

I've got a couple of VP9's,Had them for about a year, and a couple of glocks (G19, 17, both Gen4) And, while I just love the quality of the HK, The simple truth of the matter is, I shoot the Glocks better, faster, I've timed myself and the numbers, or the holes in the targets don't lie. For me, the Glocks win. For me, As far as carrying them, the G19 beats them all, including my G17. Last week I had another revelation, I took my P-2000 LEM out with me to the range, I hadn't shot it for quite awhile and thought it'd be a good idea to bring it along. I was shocked at how much muzzle flip it had compared to my G19, a few mags of that left me wondering what the hell was I thinking when I bought it. Admittedly, it was bought before I had taken any classes, or shot a few IDPA matches. Basically, I'd bought it when I didn't know what I didn't know. I think as I get older, my tastes in handguns are changing, usually when I go out shooting I take the G19 and for some DA practice, either my Vertec, or my S&W 586, The HK's sit at home a lot, and sometimes I wonder why I bought them.. OP, I guess you should stick with what you shoot the best, Give the VP9 about 6 months to prove itself, If at the end of that 6 months you can't shoot it any better, faster, that the Glock, then stick with the Glock...

[ReverendMeat]

If you enjoy shooting it more, buy the VP9, but don't sell the Glocks. Whatever motivates you to get to the range more. Glocks aren't going anywhere and if you happen to "cheat" on them they'll still be there if you decide to go back.

[StraitR]

If you enjoy shooting it more, buy the VP9, but don't sell the Glocks. Whatever motivates you to get to the range more. Glocks aren't going anywhere and if you happen to "cheat" on them they'll still be there if you decide to go back.

Like the ugly bitches they are. Faithful by necessity.

[warpedcamshaft]

Like the ugly bitches they are. Faithful by necessity.

Hahahaha... kinda true.

[ffhounddog]

I shoot a VP-9 alot with a 10-8 Fiber front and a 10-8 rear and like the combo.

I carry a Glock 23 everyday. It says hello to me every morning and keeps on ticking.

It takes me a little more patience to shoot the VP-9 well.....I have hust been back an forth from a Glock 19/23 to Sig, back to Glock 19/23...then to FN...back to Glock 19/23...then to M&P back to Glock 19/23...then to $2500 custom 1911...back to Glock 19/23...see a pattern from me. I do not count the P2000 and M9 since I was going back and forth with those and Glock but the moral is, you will go back to glock.

[GJM]

If you are in a position to do so, hang onto your current platform as you mess with another. Getting into and out of a platform is time consuming and expensive, between getting the pistol set-up, spares and all the holsters and other support gear that go along with a particular platform.

A really fun thing, is to come back to a pistol some years later, and with improved skills, realize you can shoot it a lot better, and whatever problem you did have with it, is now gone. That keeps me from selling things.

Gabe is shamelessly pandering for "likes" in this thread.

[mmc45414]

I didn’t divorce, but we sorta grew apart.

I ended up with a few 1911s, a few XDs, several Glocks, and a couple M&Ps. Shot the 1911s in my youth, Glocks the most for a long time (in the realm of what I consider successfully), but was also happy with the others.

Then I stared shooting one of the M&Ps (FS45, IIRC) a little more and more. I found myself not really wanting to shoot the others, but I always “knew” I would want to again someday. Then I probably wanted an M&P I didn’t have, so I sold one of the XDs. Then my favorite Glock (the 23) was stolen from my truck, and I replaced it with a 9c.

Somewhere in this process I tried one of the new Grip Force Adapters, and this may have been when I came to the realization that maybe I have one of the aforementioned Freakishly Short Fingers, and that maybe, while there were many things I liked better about Brand G, just maybe the M&P was a better mesh with my anatomy.

Also about this time in my life I was generating a strong fetish for the new Beretta 686 Sporting, and if I got one of those in 20g I would obviously need an SL-900 to go with it, and just maybe I didn’t need $2-3k worth of stuff (those mags and holsters add up…) holding down the safe while I shot other pistols.

So I sold the rest of the XDs and Glocks (hell no I didn’t sell the 1911s…), used some of the money for the shotgun and loader, and started buying up the rest of the M&Ps (FS/c, 9/40/45, and a Shield). Doesn’t mean I think they are better, just since at best I only get to shoot twice a week I probably should just focus.

[MD7305]

I limited myself to only Glocks for the last few years, sold off my other brands and models for the sake of ammo and training. While focusing on one platform I saw much improvement....but after a while I got burnt out and bored. I just wasn't having fun which is the biggest part of shooting for me. I came across a screaming deal on a Sig 239 and bought it. Shooting something different brought the fun back for me. So I'd suggest maybe not selling off your Glock stock but if you have the means to add something new and it brings you joy and happiness, do it. Life's too short...

[FOG]

Full disclosure, I'm a novice pistol shooter so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I had a Beretta PX4 that I shot good (relatively speaking) but I really wanted to switch over to a striker fired gun so I bought a G17 in June. From day 1 I didn't shoot it as well as the Beretta but I persevered, asked advise, focused on the fundamentals and shot often but the inconsistencies continued. After 5 months, I'm still not much better with it but I did realize I liked the SF style. So last week I rented a VP9 and automatically the gun felt 'right' in my hand and I was more accurate and faster than I was with the Glock. Needless to say, I bought the VP9 and the Glock is for sale.

IMHO, life's too short to try and fit a square peg in a round hole.

[GJM]

Two possible approaches:

1) buy and shoot the pistol you measurably shoot best.

2) learn to shoot the pistols you have trouble shooting.

Both choices have appeal.

[mizer67]

I've played this game before.

M&P, CZ75, PPQ, VP9, etc.

I always go back to my Glocks. The differences between pistols for me and the role I want them to perform, barring mechanical issues, are too small to warrant a switch. Some "feel" better (timer doesn't always agree), some shoot flatter, some have nicer triggers or better ergonomics but in the end the, at most, ~5% difference platform to platform isn't enough to give up what Glock offers for me. Almost anything I don't like about Glocks can be mitigated with training or the aftermarket.

If I'm honest with myself and where I am with my shooting, I can't really buy more skill. I just have to work harder.

It is nice to have other options around though just for fun.

[Mr_White]

Gabe is shamelessly pandering for "likes" in this thread.

You are just afraid I am going to crack wise enough to catch up to you.

[LSP552]

Don't totally divorce the Glock or you might buy one (or 3) again at some point. Keep it around as a friend with benefits as long as possible.

[LtDave]

I'll disagree. I can shoot a Glock ok, better than most. I REALLY wanted to like the Glock. I got one for free. I love the idea of a duty and a backup taking the same mag, I love the simplicity and the easy maintenance.

But I can't shoot it as well as a Sig. Years and tens of thousands of rounds and good instructors and lots of practice. I shoot my P series Sigs better. I shoot my revolvers better. Every gun is not a fit for every hand.

I'm in the same boat. I shoot my Sig SP2022 better than my Glocks. Spent my youth with DA revolvers and TDA autos.

[JustOneGun]

I'm in the same boat. I shoot my Sig SP2022 better than my Glocks. Spent my youth with DA revolvers and TDA autos.


Hey Lt.

Can you articulate how you shot the Sig better? Was it a test score or same score with better accuracy? I ask this because I think it might help the OP and other new shooters figure out how to decide what better is.

[Phrog107]

If you are in a position to do so, hang onto your current platform as you mess with another. Getting into and out of a platform is time consuming and expensive, between getting the pistol set-up, spares and all the holsters and other support gear that go along with a particular platform.

A really fun thing, is to come back to a pistol some years later, and with improved skills, realize you can shoot it a lot better, and whatever problem you did have with it, is now gone. That keeps me from selling things.

Gabe is shamelessly pandering for "likes" in this thread.

A lot of truth there. Going through it right now, yet again. Currently abandoning my full size M&P9's and replacing them with Glock 19's. Before the M&P's were 1911's, and before that were Glocks. Funny thing is now, years later, I am shooting the Glocks better than I ever did years ago.

Part of me wants to go 100% to one system. But then again, I prefer the M&P Shield to the G43. And I just shoot the CZ P-07 too well to abandon it completely. And I really like CT grips on the M&P for home defense.

So maybe I am just stuck shooting 3 platforms for different purposes.

[naza2004]

I have been in this position lately trying to reduce the the switching from different guns, I do not have the time to learn 3-4 different types of pistols nor the funds. I need reps and training. I wanted to 'divorce from DA/SA Sigs due to some perceived short comings.

So I started to shoot in steel challenge competitions. The times did show a trend, between a Glock 17/19, Sig P320 and P226R, I shot the P226 much better with the the P320 distant 2nd and Glock last behind it.

I had less misses with the P226, and scored at least 2 to 3 seconds per run per stage quicker than both striker fired pistols. The perceived detriment of the first DA shot went away (all of those dry fire practice sessions). I have had a few ftrb's which made me question the P226.

so you may want to test the Glock/VP9 under different circumstances to see if you indeed are better with one versus the other.

[Nephrology]

But then again, I prefer the M&P Shield to the G43.

the Shield and the full size Glocks are a good pair. There are no real magazine/small parts commonalities between the G43 and its bigger brothers, so you aren't losing out on that with the shield. The triggers are close enough, in my opinion, for there to be little to no loss in ability when transitioning between the two. I shoot mostly Glocks (have a J frame and a K frame that do things which no autoloader could for me) but carry a Shield very often and don't feel there is any disadvantage to doing so whatsoever.

[BehindBlueI's]

Hey Lt.

Can you articulate how you shot the Sig better? Was it a test score or same score with better accuracy? I ask this because I think it might help the OP and other new shooters figure out how to decide what better is.

I'm not Lt, but since I had the same experience I just found the Sig easier to shoot. I can shoot the Sig with better accuracy in less time and with less thought. It is simply more natural. With the Glock, I'll start pushing left as I get going faster way before I'll start pushing the Sig left.

Imagine this is a bull's eye. With a Glock, all my shots will be clustered in the red. With a Sig, they will be pretty equally distributed between red and blue.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jul-2011/12852-RedBlueInColor01.jpg

With revolvers, I don't waver as much left/right. I tend to string more vertically, like a zipper, as I get going faster than my skills allow. Since MOST people are taller than they are wide, I'd rather string vertically than horizontally. Obviously the ideal is not stringing at all if you aren't trying to, but there's that.

[Rex G]

I, too, shoot SIGs better than Glocks. I just moved back to Glock, in 9mm this time 'round, to get the lower bore axis, along with the lesser per-shot recoil of 9mm. (Recoil/muzzle flip, with .40, cumulatively, was killing my right wrist.) Previously, in 2004, I had moved to .40 SIG P229R, from .40 Glock G22, after I had been frustrated trying to shoot Glocks as well as I could shoot a 1911 or S&W/Ruger medium to medium/large DA revolvers. The first time I shot my then-new P229R, it was on our duty pistol qual course, and my score was higher than I had ever shot with a Glock, in over two years of trying. (94+ points, with the P229R, if I remember correctly, versus never attaining 94, and perhaps not even 93 points, with Glocks. This is a fast-faced, timed course, with turning targets, rarely shot "clean" by anyone. I could, in my 1911 days, usually shoot about 94 to 95 with a 1911, and 95+ with a 4" revolver, almost on demand, if I fumbled no reloads. )

Gen4 Glocks do work notably better in my hands, however, than the Gen3 Glocks I used from 2002 to 2004, so I hope the accuracy will be better this time. This is particularly true with my right hand. Thus far, it is apparent I do still have much work to do, though my accuracy is reasonable enough to merit carrying the Glocks, and semi-retiring the SIG. (At the time I switched from Gen3 Glock to SIG, it was not yet apparent that my chief would allow major grip modifications. Now, it has been established that grip mods are OK, though with the advent of Gen4, I do not think I need any changes.)

I do still keep current with my DMRs; Designated Markman Revolvers. :) The more I have trained with Glocks and SIGs, the better i have become with a K-frame S&W or Ruger GP100. I cannot revert to carrying a revolver as a primary duty handgun, but I can bring the sixgun with me, when feasible, for special occasions, or choose to wear it as "primary" during personal time.

[Urban_Redneck]

I've been a glock guy for a couple of years. Put a class or three into it, a small bag of holsters and magazines and accoutrements. It's familiar, dependable, does the job.

Now I've been flirting with this VP9.

It shoots wherever I point it. There are some parts to it I'm still getting accustomed to, but out of the box I shoot *much* better with it. I haven't gotten down to timing or splits because I'm a total amateur, but it just feels like cheating sometimes.

I don't know if it's the gun or me… but I'm wondering if it matters.

When do you guys decide (if ever!) to sell out of a system, especially if you've put a lot of money and time into it? Have you ever done it and hen regretted it? What steps do you take to figure out if it's a mechanical issue with the piece, or a personal issue? (trigger press etc.)


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I don't subscribe to splits as a measure of handgun compatibility. First shot from the holster into the "A" zone at 5 and 10 is the measure I prefer.

As to leaving behind a pile of mags, holsters, and plentiful aftermarket parts and accessories, I equate it with what I spend for cable TV vs. what I actually retain... that lessens the sting a bit.

YMMV

[camsdaddy]

I think I often get caught up in things that don't matter such as gadgets and doo dads. In reality first shot on target should be far more a priority. If I don't make a good shot with the first pull Ive already made the problem worse.

[JB326]

I find myself often looking for something to replace my Glocks, but I am never able to match my Glock performance with anything else. By policy at work (LE), I will not ever get away from Glocks completely, but the more I branch out the more I find that I shoot Glocks best. Currently my duty G34 is also my competition pistol. I've got an SP-01 that I hope one day fills that role, and I shoot it well, but the Glock is still king. I bought a CZ P-09 thinking it may be "the one" but it fell woefully short of my Glock performance in the first match I used it in. I'm ordering a short reset trigger kit for it, but I still don't know that it will dethrone the 34.

For me it comes down to ergonomics and better hits, faster. I have a huge time/ experience bias towards the Glocks, but they just seem to do it best for me. My next attempt will be the Steyr L series, which may have the best chance of all, since it seems to be a refined Glock. What sucks with it is the lack of aftermarket support, particularly when it comes to sights.

I tried an M&P and the perceived muzzle flip compared to my Glock was a major issue. No matter which back strap I tried, nothing fit me when shooting even though they pretty much all felt better in the hand. Then NOTHING about the VP-9 appealed to me. And most recently I've shot a Sig P320 a little bit and it seems to be ho hum for me at best.

[BehindBlueI's]

I find myself often looking for something to replace my Glocks, but I am never able to match my Glock performance with anything else.

That to me says stick with the Glock. Like I said, I wish I shot Glock as well as I do Sig. Cheaper, better mag compatibility with a BUG, get one for free from work, easy maintenance, etc. etc. If I shot it as well, I'd stick with Glock in a heartbeat. If I shot it better, it wouldn't even be a contest.

[LtDave]

Hey Lt.

Can you articulate how you shot the Sig better? Was it a test score or same score with better accuracy? I ask this because I think it might help the OP and other new shooters figure out how to decide what better is.

It is mostly feel to me, it just is smoother shooting and a much better trigger. I shoot USPSA matches with different guns. One of the guys I shoot with commented that he could tell I shoot the SIG better than the Glocks and Berettas I'd been trying at different matches. I'm noticeably faster, smoother and shoot more A's.

[jslaughter]

I bought a VP9 and it is way more accurate than my Robar G17. It's not as if I can't shoot my G17 as good as my vp9, but the VP9 just easier to shoot accurate.
I only have 450 rounds through my VP9 I got 4 days ago, but there is no curve it just shoots. I hate the factory sights and it will be getting a set of HD's very soon. I bought it with the idea that I just need to add sights I like and run it. I see none of the issues that are talked about in here like felt recoil. In my FAST averages are faster.
The magazine release worried me, until I used it, no issues there at all.
I shoot a lot for a LEO, so maybe it's just a lot of reps with a striker fired gun. The VP9 trigger is great, I run a skimmer trigger in my Glocks and this HK stock trigger is noticeably better. Divorce my Glocks...No. Made sell one to be a back up VP9 and a P30SK...maybe. I can see this being my duty/carry gun before Christmas.
Concerns are armorer support, I do all my Glocks myself and have become very good at it. HK parts seems to have me covered just not a lot of resources on how install stuff.

[JB326]

That to me says stick with the Glock. Like I said, I wish I shot Glock as well as I do Sig. Cheaper, better mag compatibility with a BUG, get one for free from work, easy maintenance, etc. etc. If I shot it as well, I'd stick with Glock in a heartbeat. If I shot it better, it wouldn't even be a contest.

I probably worded my statement incorrectly, but I am very content with my Glocks. I just always have it in the back of my mind that there is something out there will give me a little more edge. And quite honestly, Glocks are just rather boring after a while.

[ralph]

I bought a VP9 and it is way more accurate than my Robar G17. It's not as if I can't shoot my G17 as good as my vp9, but the VP9 just easier to shoot accurate.
I only have 450 rounds through my VP9 I got 4 days ago, but there is no curve it just shoots. I hate the factory sights and it will be getting a set of HD's very soon. I bought it with the idea that I just need to add sights I like and run it. I see none of the issues that are talked about in here like felt recoil. In my FAST averages are faster.
The magazine release worried me, until I used it, no issues there at all.
I shoot a lot for a LEO, so maybe it's just a lot of reps with a striker fired gun. The VP9 trigger is great, I run a skimmer trigger in my Glocks and this HK stock trigger is noticeably better. Divorce my Glocks...No. Made sell one to be a back up VP9 and a P30SK...maybe. I can see this being my duty/carry gun before Christmas.
Concerns are armorer support, I do all my Glocks myself and have become very good at it. HK parts seems to have me covered just not a lot of resources on how install stuff.

Just a little heads up.. If you need parts call HKUSA first, their prices are almost always cheaper than HKparts net, Just remember HKUSA charges a flat $10 shipping fee on whatever you order, so, make it worthwhile. As far as resources, check out the reference library at the HK pro site, I know they have some step by step threads on how to detail strip a VP9

[medic15al]

I dropped the glocks the moment I fired a VP9. It is now my primary sidearm and if still on duty as LE and/or security it would by my duty pistol. The trigger, ergos, and accuracy just cannot be matched by any other pistol for me other than a Hi-Power.

[Mjolnir]

I have been fortunate in that I've made enough coin to by ONE of whatever pistol I wished to try - and I admit it has not been a lot - but I like all of the R&D that HK pours into its products.

I had three Gen4 Model 17s when the first VP9 came home. I've sold one, cleaned the other two; oiled them and will be selling them with Trijicon HD sights and a number - but not all - the magazines.

The VP9 is that good. Yes, mags are expensive though I got all of mine for $35 each (it pays to have great friends and be a great friend...).

Spares are $$, the complexity of the design makes no real sense.

But goddamn do I shoot it better than all!

I'm a Marine at heart (one is none, ...) so I have a few - again, be a great friend to great people and you get helped out).

But I'd not abandon the Glock Model 19 and I have not.

The world will spin out of control into chaos one day and 1911s will ALWAYS be here in the hands of those who can machine parts and KNOW the gun, Glock Model 17 and 19, AKMs, ARs, Remington 700s, 870s, Mossberg 590s and a plethora of revolvers.

If your favorite noisemaker isn't on the list then YOU AND YOU ALONE will be SOLELY responsible for the maintenance of the machine. So have parts and tools and skill.

In Summary

Keep A Glock (one is none, at least two is one, Grasshopper), THEN purchase the HK - which I believe to be a superior pistol through and through.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[ranger]

I shot a Glock 34 for years, got the M&P bug and shot it for a few years, then read this forum about the superiority of the DA/SA and got a P07 AND a P09 (the P09 is my first gun bought from gunsmith with all the goodies - Cajun Gun Works). Had the P09 for about a year - I am so tired of dealing with DA/SA. I pulled the Glock 34 this weekend out of the back of the safe and exiled the P07/P09 to the back of the safe. I am not touching a VP9 or a 320 - temptation is always strong for "new" toy. I have been consistent with 9mm though......

[azerious]

I'm stuck between buying a G19 or 320 Compact at the moment

[Patrin]

CSAT spinal boxes don't lie...at least not under time...

Sometimes you make money when switching platforms...I've sold 6 Sigs and replaced them with 5 VP's...three 9mm and two .40.

'Well sure you did, you sold 6 guns and replaced with only 5'...well, I did pick up an VP .22 trainer as well.:cool:

Per gun for gun, I netted around 125$ in difference.

I'll admit though, selling gear and guns is a pain in the tuckus.

[Luke]

VP22?

[Patrin]

VP22?

Oh yes...range report coming.

[CDFIII]

Oh yes...range report coming.

Pics... Please. Got any details on who makes it? Thanks

[Patrin]

Pics... Please. Got any details on who makes it? Thanks

Pics of the gun...maybe some beef jerky...the works.

[CDFIII]

Pics of the gun...maybe some beef jerky...the works.

I was hoping for some gun pics and details but I will settle for beef jerky

[Appalachained]

I divorced my VP9 a couple of months ago. There were no big issues. The issue was it was so big. I put a case of ammo through it with no issues. I just didn't shoot it any better than my 19s. I went to Buds hoping to rent a P320 today, but they didn't have one for rent. I did get to fondle one though. The trigger was nice (almost as nice as a PPQ) except for I couldn't feel a reset. If I couldn't have a G19 I would have to go with a Steyr M9-A1
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/1fac2b8a881d378cd60ee28a47ff54af.jpg


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[TAZ]

Oh yes...range report coming.

My Amex is shivering in fear of your report.

[Patrin]

My Amex is shivering in fear of your report.

Mine usually sweats, but I'm in FL.:cool:

[JTQ]

VP22?
Man, that sounds like a USN aviation squadron. http://www.vpnavy.com/vp22.html

[Patrin]

Man, that sounds like a USN aviation squadron. http://www.vpnavy.com/vp22.html

What you posted is way cooler.

[A-Train]

As a former Army guy I hate to admit that I agree with a Marine but this is a great post that I agree with 101% (ok I do like Marines, just kidding). There are better pistols than Glock out there but few (if any) that do all they do well enough at a similar price point. The comments about eventual chaos are spot on as well and hard to ignore. I love my HK P30S pistols but there are nowhere nearly as many of them out there (along with parts and mags) compared to the 9mm Glocks. They are the AK of the pistol world.



I have been fortunate in that I've made enough coin to by ONE of whatever pistol I wished to try - and I admit it has not been a lot - but I like all of the R&D that HK pours into its products.

I had three Gen4 Model 17s when the first VP9 came home. I've sold one, cleaned the other two; oiled them and will be selling them with Trijicon HD sights and a number - but not all - the magazines.

The VP9 is that good. Yes, mags are expensive though I got all of mine for $35 each (it pays to have great friends and be a great friend...).

Spares are $$, the complexity of the design makes no real sense.

But goddamn do I shoot it better than all!

I'm a Marine at heart (one is none, ...) so I have a few - again, be a great friend to great people and you get helped out).

But I'd not abandon the Glock Model 19 and I have not.

The world will spin out of control into chaos one day and 1911s will ALWAYS be here in the hands of those who can machine parts and KNOW the gun, Glock Model 17 and 19, AKMs, ARs, Remington 700s, 870s, Mossberg 590s and a plethora of revolvers.

If your favorite noisemaker isn't on the list then YOU AND YOU ALONE will be SOLELY responsible for the maintenance of the machine. So have parts and tools and skill.

In Summary

Keep A Glock (one is none, at least two is one, Grasshopper), THEN purchase the HK - which I believe to be a superior pistol through and through.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[ubervic]

In my mind, I am ready to divorce a handgun when I feel that running it is more work/angst than running another. Life is short.

It must be stated, however, that I've never owned Glock. And I find myself wondering lately about getting onboard with either G19 or G17------only because they seem to be the most universally accepted and supported handguns on the planet.

[shooter220]

I divorced my last handgun when I decided I wanted new capability. I went from a Sig P225 to a P30S in early 2014. That wa stop gain a "full size" weapon, higher capacity, rail, and more holster options. A 226 would have accomplished what I "needed" but I wanted to try something new.

-shooter

[jason.copas]

I sold out of SIG's when I realized that I shot my 1911's so much more that carrying a SIG was more of a liability for me. But I'm at a point in my life where time is harder to come by than money, and I've got a LOT more time behind a 1911 than anything else.

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