Sig P320c vs G17: MY Experience and Impressions

[Virtuosity Student]

Warning: This post is lengthy and contains my novice impressions and experience. Reader discretion is advised.

My last post I was in search of what direction to go in as it related to my CCW as I just felt my G17 was too big. I had been considering picking up a G19 or going smaller. Well I had the opportunity to help out a friend of a friend in need of cash and pick up a Sig P320 Compact with night sights and a kydex IWB for $425. I bought it only after looking at what the going price was new and figured what the heck! I thought that by compact, it may solve my dilemma.

Upon first inspection, I though “This seems like a real winner”. The ergonomics were a vast improvement over my G17. The slide stop was easy to hit with my thumb and I could also hit the mag release without changing my grip. The factory night sights are made of steel and offer a ledge for one handed manipulations. Then came the trigger. Even though it is rated at a higher weight than my Glock, it is so smooth it actually feels lighter. Reset is great and it seems to be engineered, intentionally or unintentionally, with dry fire capability without having to rack the slide between trigger presses. Mags are nice steel and hold 15 rounds. Lastly, I thought the idea of being able to change calibers/frame sizes was somewhat appealing.

My first disappointment came when I compared it to my G17 to see how much smaller the grip length was. The Sig P320 compact is the exact same height as my G17! I was shocked that this “compact” was the size of my fullsize Glock. I quickly used some Jedi-Googling to verify what I could not believe. Both have a reported grip height of 5.3”, so no real advantage for concealed carry over the G17. The slide and barrel are shorter but height is the same. My next disappointment came when I seen the price of the conversion kits! Dang, I could but another gun for not a whole lot more $$.

Saturday I had the opportunity to run about 200 rounds through each, the G17 and P320 Compact. I was using UMC bulk ammo 115 gr (those large packs you find overpriced at Gander Mtn or reasonably priced at Wal-Mart). This was also my first day of doing anything other than static shooting, which I have done my whole life. I downloaded the F.A.S.T. target, watched a few videos of people doing it, and printed several targets out. I downloaded the IPSC Shot Timer (beta) app for my tablet and was off to the range.

After my ammo ran out, I was left with some things to think about. I shot the P320c more accurately than the G17 when slow firing. I attribute this partially to the 3 dot sights on the P320c vs the XS Big Dots on the G17. After some accuracy testing, I just knew I was going to smoke the G17 when running the two on the FAST. Again, this was my first attempt at anything other than plinking cans or water bottles. What surprised me was that when running the gun under speed, the G17 seemed to walk away from the P320c.
• I had more perceived muzzle flip with the P320c
• My FAST times were slower and less accurate with the P320c
• My thumb rides that slide release that is “easier to reach” on the P320c resulting in failure to lock the slide back on empty
• Mag changes with the 17 made me feel like a pro as they were quick and smooth but the P320c was fumbled.

I attribute the last one to the fact that even though they are the same height when measured, the grip lengths are different. The base of the unloaded G17 grip is flush with my hand but the P320c’s grip is just long enough to get my about half of my pinky on but my wide palms extend past the base.

My first impression is that I am not impressed with my performance on the P320c. I know it isn’t exactly an apples-to-apples comparison since one is dubbed a fullsize and the other a compact. However the fact that the “compact” is the same height as the fullsize seemed like a closer comparison to me. I admit am a novice shooter in the overall scheme of things in spite of my 25 years of “shootin’ expurience”. I managed to get one run under 10 seconds on FAST (adding time for misses) with my G17.

I have a budget for ammo and classes and after I finish this semester in school, I will look to classes in the spring and possibly joining the local IDPA. I do not want to pass judgment this quickly on the P320c and sell it just yet. As my skills improve, I may find that I run it better. However, I cannot help but lean towards the former and want to pick up another G17 then have it cut to G19 grip. The “improved ergos, better hand fitment, smoother trigger, etc.” provided me no advantage when running the gun under speed. Again, I admit I am a novice, but it makes me think that these are all overrated.

Thoughts? Advice? Anything?

[JHC]

Good analysis. Very fortunate to be able to shoot a gun at fair bit without buying it.


Question - now which of the slide releases do you consider more ergonomic for YOU ? ;)

[Virtuosity Student]

Very fortunate to be able to shoot a gun at fair bit without buying it.

That's part of my dilemma, I bought it before my range trip. :confused:


Question - now which of the slide releases do you consider more ergonomic for YOU ?

The P320's is more "ergonomic" but the G17's seemed to be more functional. For me anyway.

[HCM]

I also own both a Glock 17 and a SIG P320 compact.


SIG is making the reduce size slide releases from their P320 MHS candidate gun available commercially. It should solve the issues with writing the slide release.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205273325735471&set=gm.1640168576254295&type=3&theater

As someone who carries a Glock 17 for work in plainclothes, the height of the weapon doesn't tell the whole story. The hump on the back of the Glock 17's grip makes it print more than the 320 C if you are using traditional strong side Carry.

[JHC]

That's part of my dilemma, I bought it before my range trip. :confused:



The P320's is more "ergonomic" but the G17's seemed to be more functional. For me anyway.

Sorry, my bad. I thought you tried before your buyed.

Regarding ergonomics - it's a design that aids human performance. That doesn't mean easier to reach or harder to reach - depends on what aids human performance. A brake pedal can be closer to the gas pedal and easier to heel and toe shift (early Audi) but while that's ergonomic for a highly trained performance driver, that didn't turn out very ergonomic for the folks that floored them through the back of their garages. ;) But it's largely academic when it comes to most pistols I guess. Just over used. ;)

But no matter, the key is HCM's post about updated parts in the pipeline. And also to his point about size, until you try it out under garments, you won't know for sure. I agree, looking at them in the store they seem like they'd be easier to conceal than the 17. And for like $40 you can get the SMALL sized lower to try.

[psalms144.1]

I think we are confusing two different things - Overall Height, and Grip Length. The P320C's OAH (top of the rear sight to bottom of the grip) is the same as the G17's. The grip length (bottom of the slide to bottom of the grip) on the P320C should be shorter than the G17. The P320 has an "overhang" on the back of the grip (that comes flush to the base of the magazine, generally) which makes the grip length longer than the G19, but shorter than the G17 - IIRC. The P320's significantly "taller" slide is what makes it's OAH on par with the G17 (and what makes it "flippier" for some shooters).

[oldtexan]

..........Reset is great and it seems to be engineered, intentionally or unintentionally, with dry fire capability without having to rack the slide between trigger presses. .........


Please confirm that you can actuate the P320 trigger repeatedly without the slide moving. I didn't think that was the case with the P320, though it is true of the P320's predecessor, the P250.

[GJM]

Please confirm that you can actuate the P320 trigger repeatedly without the slide moving. I didn't think that was the case with the P320, though it is true of the P320's predecessor, the P250.

Yes, confirmed.

[Gio]

You've gotta drop the XS sights from the G17. They are quite possibly the worst sights you could put on a pistol if you want to hit anything regularly beyond 5 yards and are a complete marketing gimmick.

Also, at your skill level, you can pick anything and practice with it, and you will quickly build muscle memory and improve on it beyond any kind of determination you can make in 200 rounds. So pick what you like most/what carries easiest, then put the work in on it to figure out how to maximize your performance.

[ReverendMeat]

Please confirm that you can actuate the P320 trigger repeatedly without the slide moving. I didn't think that was the case with the P320, though it is true of the P320's predecessor, the P250.

Sort of. Pulling the trigger without cycling the action, you get a distinct "click" which could be helpful doing dry fire practice. Though the amount of pressure you have to put on the trigger for it to break is substantially less than if the action was cycled beforehand.

[highready]

I had a 320 sub compact for a short time. The grip length was very comparable to my G26 (even though it had a 12 rd capacity) however the total height and physical size was almost identical to my G19. I'm sure that comparison can be made between the carry and a G17 as well. It's from the much greater height over bore of the Sig. The pistol was accurate, but I'm so used to the grip angle of the glock that I wasn't happy with it. I also had the same issue with the slide release level and holding it down while shooting. If they would have designed the 320 from the ground up as a striker pistol rather than just reusing the 250 design it would have been a much better option. My 320 also had about 1/8 of gritty slop/play in the trigger before it smoothed out. Maybe mine was an odd duck or something, but I hated the slop in the trigger. I traded the 320 after about 1000 rounds. Here's a picture I took to show the size comparison to a friend at the time.

4314

[Hwikek]

Did you try adding a different slide catch to your G17? That might make the gun easier for you to use. I know that I've liked the extended catch on the G34 as it made things a bit easier although I must admit that under optimal conditions I can still use the normal slide catch.

[Virtuosity Student]

I apologize for the stupid question, but are you sure you have a Compact and not a Carry? A Carry has the frame length of a compact, but the grip length of a Fullsize.

I just took compared a G17 to a P320 Carry (and Fullsize) and they have the same grip length.

Is there any chance you could post a picture of your P320?

No such thing as a stupid question!

Pics:
P320 Compact Medium Frame

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/P320c%20Frame_zpsxihhbw3h.jpg

G17 vs P320c overall height

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/G17%20vs%20P320c_zpsjpbgvdrv.jpg

Hand Fit on frames

G17

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/Glock%20Hand%20Fit_zpslne6dvfz.jpg

P320c

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/P320c%20Hand%20Fit_zpskthyfmik.jpg


Did you try adding a different slide catch to your G17?

Just got this yesterday and installed. Vast improvement over stock. I haven't been able to shoot it though to see if my thumb rides it like on the P320c. It seems farther forward though than the 320's.

[spinmove_]

No such thing as a stupid question!

Pics:
P320 Compact Medium Frame

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/P320c%20Frame_zpsxihhbw3h.jpg

G17 vs P320c overall height

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/G17%20vs%20P320c_zpsjpbgvdrv.jpg

Hand Fit on frames

G17

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/Glock%20Hand%20Fit_zpslne6dvfz.jpg

P320c

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/P320c%20Hand%20Fit_zpskthyfmik.jpg



Just got this yesterday and installed. Vast improvement over stock. I haven't been able to shoot it though to see if my thumb rides it like on the P320c. It seems farther forward though than the 320's.

The difference in grip angle and the height of that slide is what gets you. It is what it is.

[L-2]

From my perspective, I'd keep the P320C to have another pistol available, whether for variety, or should the G17 be unavailable for any reason. Going to a class, it's always good to bring two guns anyway for that reason. The "dilemma" is totally within one's mind. Just keep it and plan to buy yet something else in the future, whether another G19 or something else.

It's been a long, long time since I was a starving student, however, but not too long ago where I still can remember and regret guns I've sold, only to wish I'd still owned them or even ended up buying the same model again.

Put ~10,000 rounds through the P320C without shooting the G17 and I'd bet the SIG would begin to feel pretty comfortable and natural.

Size-wise, I'm 5'9" @170 lbs, and will conceal any of my pistols "IWB", but do currently prefer either my Glock 19gen3 or SIG P229R for that role.

[Drang]

No such thing as a stupid question!

Pics:
G17 vs P320c overall height

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/CC49INC/G17%20vs%20P320c_zpsjpbgvdrv.jpg
...
That might explain why Sig makes the sub-compact. (.6" shorter.)
(Side-note: I hate Sig's web site for the P320. Really. can't I just have the data without all the multi-media razzle-dazzle that takes so long to load even on a decent computer?)
(Not to mention relies on all kinds of widgets and things I prefer to block.)

[psalms144.1]

Virtuosity - thanks for posting those photos, they were illuminating. It appears that I have (once again) mischaracterized things. The P320's slide does NOT, in fact look significantly "taller" than the slide of the G17. But, there is a WHOLE LOT more "space" between the bottom of the beavertail and the bottom of the slide - resulting in the extra "height" of the pistol. As someone else pointed out, I see this as an unfortunate side effect of taking the easy way out and using the hammer-fired P250 as the base for this pistol, instead of redesigning the grip module to have all the "works" sit lower in the grip...

[ffhounddog]

From my perspective, I'd keep the P320C to have another pistol available, whether for variety, or should the G17 be unavailable for any reason. Going to a class, it's always good to bring two guns anyway for that reason. The "dilemma" is totally within one's mind. Just keep it and plan to buy yet something else in the future, whether another G19 or something else.

It's been a long, long time since I was a starving student, however, but not too long ago where I still can remember and regret guns I've sold, only to wish I'd still owned them or even ended up buying the same model again.

Put ~10,000 rounds through the P320C without shooting the G17 and I'd bet the SIG would begin to feel pretty comfortable and natural.

Size-wise, I'm 5'9" @170 lbs, and will conceal any of my pistols "IWB", but do currently prefer either my Glock 19gen3 or SIG P229R for that role.

I sold all my Glocks to buy HKs and Sigs twice. Now sold all my Sigs and some of my HKs and have 2 Glock 19s and 3 Glock 23s. I miss my Glock 26. I might have to get another one. The Gen3 Glock 23 rtf2 that I have is being converted to a Glock 19. I have the slide now just debating on the aftermarket barrel.

[Hwikek]

Just got this yesterday and installed. Vast improvement over stock. I haven't been able to shoot it though to see if my thumb rides it like on the P320c. It seems farther forward though than the 320's.

When I shot the G34 I had no issues with the pistol. When I next shot an MK25 I kept on hitting the slide release at some point during the firing process. Also for some reason shooting the MK25 made my wrist sore, not as bad as the XD9 subcompact but still a noticeable issue. The DA trigger was fairly smooth however and the SA was easily better than the G34.

[Rex G]

Well, the "more perceived muzzle flip" was as far as I needed to read. I just switched to the G17 as a duty pistol, retiring my P229R DAK, .40 S&W, as soon as my chief OK'ed 9mm as an alternate duty cartridge, due to recoil and muzzle flip aggravating my aging, aching right wrist. (We went all-.40 in 1997, then .45 ACP was added in 2012.) My chief added the P320 to the list of approved duty pistols, so I had started looking for write-ups. Yours is the first I have found that directly compared muzzle flip of the G17 and P320.

I am grateful for your information. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Edited to add: To be clear, I am not blaming SIG, or the .40 S&W, for damaging my wrist and hand. I carried a .44 Magnum duty revolver my rookie year, and a .41 Magnum for both duty and personal carry for another five or six years. I also shot plenty of .357 Magnums in the Nineties and into this century.

[Mr_White]

From just the little bit that I have shot them, I perceived more muzzle flip out of the VP9, the P320, and the PPQ than I do from a Glock. Not a robustly founded impression, but that was my impression.

[JHC]

From just the little bit that I have shot them, I perceived more muzzle flip out of the VP9, the P320, and the PPQ than I do from a Glock. Not a robustly founded impression, but that was my impression.

+1 with the 320 FS that I owned for 800 rounds worth of shooting last Winter. But it was a very small increase IMO and I thought it settled so quickly has to not be a detriment to good shooting. Not a feature either. I shot a buddy's briefly Sunday and I think that reinforced my previously formed opinion, however it seemed like it may have been a little softer into the hand than the Glock 17 I was shooting. Which might stand to reason if it's a little higher and a little less straight back.

[JHC]

double posted. Haven't seen that in ages.

[Clusterfrack]

I've got 3800 rounds through my Grayguns Sig 320 FS, and now have a pretty good feel for how it compares with my previous USPSA gun, the G34. I perceive no big difference in "flip" or recoil impulse, and my splits are in the 0.18-0.20s range as they were for a G34. I even compared some videos, and I can't see any difference in the way the gun moves in my hands.

Here are the main differences I've found:


I hold my head more erect with the 320 than with the G34
My draw is slightly faster with the 320 (0.05s)
The grip is less "ambiguous" with the Glock. The Glock points more naturally for me, but this may be due to much more time with the that platform.
Accuracy is significantly greater with the 320, both due to the better trigger and the gun itself.
125 gr bullets work best in the 320, while 147 gr is best in the G34

[MGW]

I've got 3800 rounds through my Grayguns Sig 320 FS, and now have a pretty good feel for how it compares with my previous USPSA gun, the G34. I perceive no big difference in "flip" or recoil impulse, and my splits are in the 0.18-0.20s range as they were for a G34. I even compared some videos, and I can't see any difference in the way the gun moves in my hands.

Here are the main differences I've found:


I hold my head more erect with the 320 than with the G34
My draw is slightly faster with the 320 (0.05s)
The grip is less "ambiguous" with the Glock. The Glock points more naturally for me, but this may be due to much more time with the that platform.
Accuracy is significantly greater with the 320, both due to the better trigger and the gun itself.
125 gr bullets work best in the 320, while 147 gr is best in the G34


Are you using lighter than stock recoil spring in your 320? Did you use a stock recoil spring in your 34? I'm just curious more than anything.

[GJM]

I think that GJM has written quite a bit on PF comparing various Glocks (and probably every pistol currently in production) to the assorted P320 variations. Hopefully he'll see this and provide more detail.

Subjectively, I found the full size 320 to be sluggish/ponderous/disappointing feeling, when shooting tasks like the Garcia dot drill. That was with a comp trigger and an after market guide rod and lighter spring. From the get go, I could outshoot the FS 9 with my stock Compact 9, and even a stock Compact .357. I discussed this with a number of people that agreed with my impressions. Eventually, I settled on a Compact upper, full size (called Carry) lower, comp trigger job and P series Dawson FO sights as my preferred combination. Recoil feels more vigorous than a 17, but it snaps back on target quickly.

I am waiting for a thumb safety or other model for carry, and the current Carry config is an ideal striker game gun.

[Clusterfrack]

Are you using lighter than stock recoil spring in your 320? Did you use a stock recoil spring in your 34? I'm just curious more than anything.

Yes to both. In the 320, I'm using a 14# 1911 round wire spring on a Grayguns guiderod. In my 34's, I use a 13# ISMI flat wire spring on a Jager rod. I like the feel of both springs best after they are well broken in. On Glocks, I typically run them for at least 5-7k.

[Mr_White]

But it was a very small increase IMO and I thought it settled so quickly has to not be a detriment to good shooting. Not a feature either.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. And I have no dispute with Clusterfrack's report either. I don't like more muzzle flip (or perceived muzzle flip) but it's not like it's a big deal either.

[Surf]

I know this is 17 to 320, but I will note that the full size slide of the 320 and the compact slide 320 have a very notable increase in muzzle rise, more so IMO than say the 17 to 34 comparison.

I also think there is excessive space between the slide and where you can actually grip the pistol. This is mostly due to how the trigger module fits into the frame module. In its current design this is a bit of a necessity. I would have liked to have seen this shortened and the beaver tail reduced or more so the clearance closer to the slide, however as mentioned the trigger module locks all the way into the rear of the beaver tail. I had originally thought to reduce the tail, re-contour or re-shape it, but there is little clearance to do this.

[Alma]

I know this is 17 to 320, but I will note that the full size slide of the 320 and the compact slide 320 have a very notable increase in muzzle rise, more so IMO than say the 17 to 34 comparison.

I also think there is excessive space between the slide and where you can actually grip the pistol. This is mostly due to how the trigger module fits into the frame module. In its current design this is a bit of a necessity. I would have liked to have seen this shortened and the beaver tail reduced or more so the clearance closer to the slide, however as mentioned the trigger module locks all the way into the rear of the beaver tail. I had originally thought to reduce the tail, re-contour or re-shape it, but there is little clearance to do this.

Most of the muzzle flip is controlled better through proper use of your support hand which can obviously get a lot hugger on the gun than your strong hand. One of my favorite modifications for the P320 is adding texturing higher on the gun, above the current factory texturing, so that I can better get my support hand engaged in recoil control. I have actually done some extensive undercutting on some P320 grip modules but have so far not preferred the feel of that to the stock height. You can also do quite a bit of work of the mag well area to make it much easier to reload.

[Surf]

Most of the muzzle flip is controlled better through proper use of your support hand which can obviously get a lot hugger on the gun than your strong hand. One of my favorite modifications for the P320 is adding texturing higher on the gun, above the current factory texturing, so that I can better get my support hand engaged in recoil control. I have actually done some extensive undercutting on some P320 grip modules but have so far not preferred the feel of that to the stock height. You can also do quite a bit of work of the mag well area to make it much easier to reload.Maybe I said it wrong, but from what I notice is that the compact 320 vs the full size 320 has more noted movement or a much sharper felt recoil between the two, than when I compare a G17 to a G34. I know why it happens, but I am surprised how different I notice this in the Sigs vs. the Glocks. But maybe that's just me.

As for the hand placement, grip or recoil management topic I will not comment there, however I will note that I have been doing Glock modifications for a long time and been doing P320 frame mods since pretty much literally the first day I got one in my hands. I had frame modules a few weeks before I got the pistol. One of the first things I did with the Glock and the P320 was to fix the magwell. There are pics out there somewhere of my work on both the Glock and P320.

[rauchman]

Maybe I said it wrong, but from what I notice is that the compact 320 vs the full size 320 has more noted movement or a much sharper felt recoil between the two, than when I compare a G17 to a G34. I know why it happens, but I am surprised how different I notice this in the Sigs vs. the Glocks. But maybe that's just me.

As for the hand placement, grip or recoil management topic I will not comment there, however I will note that I have been doing Glock modifications for a long time and been doing P320 frame mods since pretty much literally the first day I got one in my hands. I had frame modules a few weeks before I got the pistol. One of the first things I did with the Glock and the P320 was to fix the magwell. There are pics out there somewhere of my work on both the Glock and P320.

Regarding the bolded, would comparing muzzle flip/recoil between the G17 and G19 be more appropriate? I find a distinct, but not offensive, uptick in felt recoil between the G17 & G19. Not so much between the G17 & G34.

I have a 320C 9mm and am very curious to shoot a full size 320 for comparison. Surprisingly, on the 320C I'm not riding the slide release, where on a P226 I'm always riding the slide release. I really like the 320 platform (especially living in NJ) for it's modularity and excellent accuracy, but I'm not quite ready to give up my Glocks yet either.

[Mr_White]

I find a distinct, but not offensive, uptick in felt recoil between the G17 & G19. Not so much between the G17 & G34.

Felt recoil is so subjective, isn't it? I feel more recoil from the 17 than the 34 as well as more from the 19 than the 17.

[Surf]

Felt recoil is so subjective, isn't it? I feel more recoil from the 17 than the 34 as well as more from the 19 than the 17.

I agree with this to a point, but maybe I am saying it wrong. Let me try this.

I think that there is much more mass on the end of the muzzle of the full size P320 vs the compact relative to the G17 to G34 comparison. There is definitely more sight movement in a sharper recoil curve with a similar grip and pressure of the P320 comparison than the Glock comparison. It takes more work IMO with the compact 320 than with the full size 320 than it does with the G17 and G34. Not that I can't do it well with the P320 and most would not notice much of a difference in seeing me shoot them side by side, but I sure notice a larger difference in the Sigs than with the Glocks. One reason I think the G17 to G34 comparison is different is that the G34 does not carry as much of a dramatic weight difference on the muzzle end over a G17 than say when comparing the Sigs and this is due to the slide cuts in the G34. But for myself there is much more mass on the nose of the full size P320 vs the compact and in my shooting that mass eats up a lot of that movement.

[rauchman]

I agree with this to a point, but maybe I am saying it wrong. Let me try this.

I think that there is much more mass on the end of the muzzle of the full size P320 vs the compact relative to the G17 to G34 comparison. There is definitely more sight movement in a sharper recoil curve with a similar grip and pressure of the P320 comparison than the Glock comparison. It takes more work IMO with the compact 320 than with the full size 320 than it does with the G17 and G34. Not that I can't do it well with the P320 and most would not notice much of a difference in seeing me shoot them side by side, but I sure notice a larger difference in the Sigs than with the Glocks. One reason I think the G17 to G34 comparison is different is that the G34 does not carry as much of a dramatic weight difference on the muzzle end over a G17 than say when comparing the Sigs and this is due to the slide cuts in the G34. But for myself there is much more mass on the nose of the full size P320 vs the compact and in my shooting that mass eats up a lot of that movement.

This is what I was looking for. Very well put. Thank you!

[Glockman9mm]

You've gotta drop the XS sights from the G17. They are quite possibly the worst sights you could put on a pistol if you want to hit anything regularly beyond 5 yards and are a complete marketing gimmick.

Also, at your skill level, you can pick anything and practice with it, and you will quickly build muscle memory and improve on it beyond any kind of determination you can make in 200 rounds. So pick what you like most/what carries easiest, then put the work in on it to figure out how to maximize your performance.


I've been able to shoot very well with XS big dot sights on my Gen 4 G19 out to 25 yards. Don't shoot pistols regularly beyond that. At 15 yards and under they shoot as well as my pistols with any other sights. They seem to work well on my G43 as well but havnt ran that gun much yet. Best thing I like about them is if my prescription glasses get knocked off my face, I can still focus on that big front sight floating above the rear sight to hit a threat.

[Aguila9]

I am also a fan of the XS big dot sight. Not the best for accuracy but great for a man size target at speed out to 25 yards.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Tamara]

I am also a fan of the XS big dot sight. Not the best for accuracy but great for a man size target at speed out to 25 yards.

Suppose you have just a part-of-a-man-sized target? ;)

[Aguila9]

Suppose you have just a part-of-a-man-sized target? ;)
Concentrate real hard and pray.[emoji51] [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Gio]

I am also a fan of the XS big dot sight. Not the best for accuracy but great for a man size target at speed out to 25 yards.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

The goal isn't to hit a man sized target at 25 yards, it is to hit a specific spot (vital zone) on a man sized target at 25 yards, or any distance. XS sights do not allow you to get that kind of precision at any reasonable speed.

[Aguila9]

The goal isn't to hit a man sized target at 25 yards, it is to hit a specific spot (vital zone) on a man sized target at 25 yards, or any distance. XS sights do not allow you to get that kind of precision at any reasonable speed.
I beg to differ and agree. Hitting center mass on a man sized target is exactly what you want to do. I used my XS sights during our local speed challenge match (basically an NRA service gun match with quicker times) and consistently kept every shot within the score rings on a B-27, with the majority in the 8 ring. I wasn't winning and eventually went back to more traditional sights for finer accuracy, but saw how the big dot was optimal for close in quick sight aqquisition.

[Tamara]

...but saw how the big dot was optimal for close in quick sight aqquisition.

How much faster are you with the Big Dot than with other, more conventional, hi-viz front sights like HDs or CAPs? How much faster inside seven yards than just straight-up index shooting with a coarse visual reference?

[Aguila9]

How much faster are you with the Big Dot than with other, more conventional, hi-viz front sights like HDs or CAPs? How much faster inside seven yards than just straight-up index shooting with a coarse visual reference?
As my eyesight gets worse with age I do find that big dot faster than the average three dot sight. I tend to describe the whole XD big dot system as a coarse visual reference sighting system.

On my duty sidearm I'm using the Trijicon HD which I find a good mix of what I need to quickly find the front sight and what is needed for accurate shooting.

[Gio]

I beg to differ and agree. Hitting center mass on a man sized target is exactly what you want to do. I used my XS sights during our local speed challenge match (basically an NRA service gun match with quicker times) and consistently kept every shot within the score rings on a B-27, with the majority in the 8 ring. I wasn't winning and eventually went back to more traditional sights for finer accuracy, but saw how the big dot was optimal for close in quick sight aqquisition.

What does your XS sight allow you to do in close that your trijicon HD sight doesn't? What is your bill drill time/accuracy at 7 yards with the XS sight vs. others? Can you keep a fist size group at the same bill drill speed? People on the internet always say "XS sights are good for close up" but I'm not convinced that is true either. I think they make it extremely easy to find the front sight, but that is it. From my experience, it is difficult to shoot a 7 yard bill drill or nail the head shots consistently on a FAST drill with XS sights without severe vertical stringing of the hits.

[Clusterfrack]

I've seen this topic play out on various forums. I don't like the XS, or any of the non-traditional sights. But, it's hard to argue against success, and there are a number of people who shoot really well with the XS. However, I have not seen any high level USPSA or IDPA shooters use them, and that's telling for me.

[Aguila9]

What does your XS sight allow you to do in close that your trijicon HD sight doesn't? What is your bill drill time/accuracy at 7 yards with the XS sight vs. others? Can you keep a fist size group at the same bill drill speed? People on the internet always say "XS sights are good for close up" but I'm not convinced that is true either. I think they make it extremely easy to find the front sight, but that is it. From my experience, it is extremely difficult to shoot a 7 yard bill drill or nail the head shots consistently on a FAST drill with XS sights without severe vertical stringing of the hits.
What your saying is very valid. I can not keep a fist size group using the big dot.

Aquiring the sight is all it helping you do. The time is saved with the lack of trying to get the front and rear lined up also contributes to the speed of the system.

Then again at seven yards all you should be using is a flash sight picture in an "oh shit" moment.

I know I'm not doing the system any justice with my description. All I can say is try it for a while and you would be able to see what I'm trying to describe.

Also, as you have read after all I said, I went to the HD. In the end I didn't feel comfortable taking a head shot with the big dot.

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[JHC]

What does your XS sight allow you to do in close that your trijicon HD sight doesn't?

Nothing really.

The inventor's early articles advocating his design were pretty much exclusively focused on hitting a full torso center mass in a close range emergency. There was no talk about faceshooting at 25 yards when that's all an enemy has presented around cover.

[98z28]

Size wise, the 320C with a magazine inserted is about the same height as a G17 without a magazine inserted. As others have said, that doesn't tell the whole story. The shape of the grip makes it much easier (and more comfortable) to conceal than a G17, at least for me. Here's a picture of a G17, 320C, and G26 with G19 magazine:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/stelks98z28/Post/20150511_184830_zpsgnebbhat.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/stelks98z28/media/Post/20150511_184830_zpsgnebbhat.jpg.html)

Another, with a magazine extention in the G26 this time:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/stelks98z28/Post/20150511_185155_zpssnxz2hwb.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/stelks98z28/media/Post/20150511_185155_zpssnxz2hwb.jpg.html)

The 320 full size is identical in height to a G17 with a magazine inserted. Here's a picture of the G17 and 320 full size:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/stelks98z28/Post/20150216_185755_zpschwwrj8j.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/stelks98z28/media/Post/20150216_185755_zpschwwrj8j.jpg.html).

I shot the 320C and G17 back to back a few times. I didn't feel any meaningful difference in recoil impulse between the two. I saw better Bill Drill times with the 320C, but had faster splits with the G17 on more accuracy-intensive tasks like two shots to a 3x5 at 7 yards. I'm a middling shooter in this company though, so take that for what it's worth.


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[GJM]

The Glock 17 and 320 Compact are my two favorite striker pistols. Using a fast food analogy, I see the 17 as McDonald's and the 320C as Chick-fil-A. However, at the end of the day, both are still fast food compared to a metal gun.

[Clusterfrack]

The Glock 17 and 320 Compact are my two favorite striker pistols. Using a fast food analogy, I see the 17 as McDonald's and the 320C as Chick-fil-A. However, at the end of the day, both are still fast food compared to a metal gun.

Would a metal gripframe for the 320 make it gourmet?

[taadski]

Would a metal gripframe for the 320 make it gourmet?

I think that would make it on par with a good sandwich shop. :)

[GRV]

The Glock 17 and 320 Compact are my two favorite striker pistols. Using a fast food analogy, I see the 17 as McDonald's and the 320C as Chick-fil-A. However, at the end of the day, both are still fast food compared to a metal gun.

What does that make the VP9......Shake Shack?

[GJM]

What does that make the VP9......Shake Shack?

No, a Nyeti burger.

[JM Campbell]

No, a Nyeti burger.
Mr. Dobbs would say Whataburger.


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[JAD]

What does that make the VP9......Shake Shack?

Schnitzel Shack.

[MGW]

I've put enough rounds through a full size 320 now to decide it's not for me. Trigger was okay. I like the shorter take up and reset is okay. It was noticeably heavier than my 17 trigger. Don't like the contrast sights and options are limited right now. I like the medium grip better than the large but my trigger finger tends to end up all the way to the first knuckle. Not sure I like that.

The take down lever is in a terrible spot for me. I don't think I could get used to where it's at even with a low pro one.

I keep trying to find something to kill Glocks with and haven't found it yet. Not sure why I even try anymore.

I do have the desire to spend some time with a VP9 now though.

[GJM]

Why do you think sight choices are limited, given they take P series sights?