Beretta 92D

[Nephrology]

So... Tell me about these guns. How are the triggers? What would be a reasonable price for one (after taxes, etc)? I would plan to send it to Wilson eventually - anything else I should consider doing with it either before/after trip to Wilson?

edit - Also, grips... I really like the idea of wood grips (I only really own boring plastic guns with one or two exceptions) and as long as I would have a full steel pistol I would certainly prefer wood. However, I've heard they make the grip super thick and I have smaller hands to begin with.... Otherwise was looking at WC's G10 grips or an equivalent.

double edit - also, in your opinion, what would would you have done to it at Wilson? I had a few ideas spec'd out but am open to thoughts. Definitely want a shorter trigger, action tune, extended mag release, and improve sights (Battlefront rear + FO drilled into the front sight). Maybe a refinish... anything else?

[Kyle Reese]

If you look around, these tend to pop up for sale sporadically. If I had one, I'd would add a Wilson Combat trigger bar and a 12 or 13 # mainspring.

[Nephrology]

If you look around, these tend to pop up for sale sporadically. If I had one, I'd would add a Wilson Combat trigger bar and a 12 or 13 # mainspring.

What would be a fair price for one, you think?

[Kyle Reese]

What would be a fair price for one, you think?

$350 - 400 ish. They seem to appear on the market in batches, and they have a tendency to sit around for a while.

[HCM]

What would be a fair price for one, you think?

Depends on condition and exact variant( Full size, centurion etc) $250-450 . You may find it easier and cheaper to find a 96D and drop a 9 mm barrel into it.

You can send it to Wilson for new sites and refinish if you want but these guns really don't need any trigger work. The triggers on these guns feel like a well tuned Smith & Wesson revolver.

I carried an issued 96D brigadier as both my duty and primary off-duty done for several years. I even shot my first USPSA match with it. The trigger and accuracy were awesome. My only complaints were durability issues related to the 40 caliber round and the slow split times with the long pull DAO being rather slow.

[Mike C]

Depends on condition and exact variant( Full size, centurion etc) $250-450 . You may find it easier and cheaper to find a 96D and drop a 9 mm barrel into it.

You can send it to Wilson for new sites and refinish if you want but these guns really don't need any trigger work. The triggers on these guns feel like a well tuned Smith & Wesson revolver.

I carried an issued 96D brigadier as both my duty and primary off-duty done for several years. I even shot my first USPSA match with it. The trigger and accuracy were awesome. My only complaints were durability issues related to the 40 caliber round and the slow split times with the long pull DAO being rather slow.

Completely agree. The triggers are fantastic. I can't remember how much I picked mine up for but it was somewhere around $300 or so. Also the Wilson Ultra Thin G10's are awesome, especially if you've got midget thumbs like I was cursed with.

[Gadfly]

I carried the 96D brigadier on duty too. Accurate, great trigger considering its DAO. It was just low capacity for the size and weight. A 92D would be preferable. I have a personal 96D now with a drop in 92 barrel and it runs just fine..

They were easy to find a few years back as many department trade ins hit the market. I think most of those deals have long since passed.

[Nephrology]

There's a pretty decent looking 92D on GB right now:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=518244734

that might be my bid ;)

[Gadfly]

New recoil spring, new trigger return spring for sure (cheap insurance). No telling what type of mileage the gun had.

Possibly a new locking block, if you get a bug to be extra sure... But probably not necessary. Looking at pics on GB, that gun has never been holster carried and from the look of the unmarked finish on the barrel, it did not see much use.

Would be nice to have the M9a3 convert FS to G as planned, but also abide to D with a new hammer and sear....

[Clobbersaurus]

Here's a sneak peak of my 92D Centurion. I've only just received the gun, so I will write a better review in a day or so

Some random thoughts:

- Trigger is excellent! It's the best out of the box DA trigger I've ever tried. I've dry fired it the last two nights and IMO if you can't shoot this DA trigger without modifications, you simply can't shoot a DA trigger. It's that good.

- Centurions are the HEAT when it come to Beretta's. Nothing else comes close. :cool:

- Grips aren't as slippery or as wide as I thought they would be.

http://i.imgur.com/TWqyhpIh.jpg

[Edwin]

Maybe one day I'll get a D model and send it out for SAO conversion with frame mounted safety.

[Joe in PNG]

Here's a sneak peak of my 92D Centurion. I've only just received the gun, so I will write a better review in a day or so

Some random thoughts:

- Trigger is excellent! It's the best out of the box DA trigger I've ever tried. I've dry fired it the last two nights and IMO if you can't shoot this DA trigger without modifications, you simply can't shoot a DA trigger. It's that good.

- Centurions are the HEAT when it come to Beretta's. Nothing else comes close. :cool:

- Grips aren't as slippery or as wide as I thought they would be.


I most heartily agree.

[167]

When I was running a 96D a few years ago I used Trausch Grips. Super thin. Completely changed the feel of the gun. I don't know how they compare the WC grips though.

http://masterclasschronicles.blogspot.com/2011/11/trausch-grips-initial-impressions.html?m=1

[Clobbersaurus]

I couldn't resist taking some more pics. I hope this helps the OP.

I love the finish on this gun. There are dings, scratches, and holster wear, just the way a gun should be. It's perfect.
http://i.imgur.com/3jRwIfwh.jpg

This one came with Trijicon night sights. 1995 vintage. They still have a faint glow, which is impressive after 20 years.
http://i.imgur.com/QzFXXuxh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pHfnsPrh.jpg

The stubby D hammer at full arc.
http://i.imgur.com/y6hDswkh.jpg

Hammer down. No safety or decocker to mess with...
http://i.imgur.com/YMVYdyXh.jpg

It doesn't appear to have been shot much....I'll fix that.
http://i.imgur.com/frL9EcKh.jpg

Trigger at reset. ;)
http://i.imgur.com/jLTsx0Kh.jpg

Reset on my Elite II. :o
http://i.imgur.com/ROMX8Tuh.jpg

[Clobbersaurus]

Size compared to my Elite II.
http://i.imgur.com/SNJAi6Mh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wfGb86fh.jpg

This one has a captive recoil spring assembly. There is a pin in the guide rod which holds the recoil spring onto the rod. Also, the recoil spring seems very light. Much lighter than my other Centurion.
http://i.imgur.com/ZFkpRerh.jpg

I'll be putting this pistol through the 2000 round challenge and will report back in this thread with my results.

[Nephrology]

Great pictures - I am definitely hoping that I win the gunbroker auction. I probably won't have the time or cash to send it to wilson right away but that will be my next move for certain. Very excited about the gun.

[Hambo]

Also, grips... I really like the idea of wood grips (I only really own boring plastic guns with one or two exceptions) and as long as I would have a full steel pistol I would certainly prefer wood. However, I've heard they make the grip super thick and I have smaller hands to begin with.... Otherwise was looking at WC's G10 grips or an equivalent.

double edit - also, in your opinion, what would would you have done to it at Wilson? I had a few ideas spec'd out but am open to thoughts. Definitely want a shorter trigger, action tune, extended mag release, and improve sights (Battlefront rear + FO drilled into the front sight). Maybe a refinish... anything else?

My very first 92 came from the factory with wood, and yes, they are thick. My hands are large but I still prefer something a bit thinner with more traction.

On old 92s I would replace all springs and think about the firing pin.

[Sal Picante]

So... Tell me about these guns. How are the triggers? What would be a reasonable price for one (after taxes, etc)? I would plan to send it to Wilson eventually - anything else I should consider doing with it either before/after trip to Wilson?

edit - Also, grips... I really like the idea of wood grips (I only really own boring plastic guns with one or two exceptions) and as long as I would have a full steel pistol I would certainly prefer wood. However, I've heard they make the grip super thick and I have smaller hands to begin with.... Otherwise was looking at WC's G10 grips or an equivalent.

double edit - also, in your opinion, what would would you have done to it at Wilson? I had a few ideas spec'd out but am open to thoughts. Definitely want a shorter trigger, action tune, extended mag release, and improve sights (Battlefront rear + FO drilled into the front sight). Maybe a refinish... anything else?

92D's are, well, kinda limited.

You can get the DA pull down in weight using some WC springs, maybe throw the alternate SR trigger in there, but the reset isn't what I'd call "short".
(Dunno if the SRT will actually cause the DA reset to be shorter, either...)

They do work alright and are reliable, but it is kinda tough to make it "better".

I had a 92D Brig that I just put different sights on to match my competition guns. I beat the crap outta the frame and finally sold the slide...
I did shoot one IDPA match with it - splitting with the gun was difficult (long DA pull for every shot...) but I did ok.

Not my first choice... Dunno if I'd spend more than $200.00 for one.

BTW - you used to be able to buy 92D slides from Midwest Gun Works: http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/UD8A0077

[JonInWA]

Tom_Jones, in answer to your slide grasping groove question, in reality, I believe that there was really only one actual production "variant" for the 92D/96D and 92D/96D Centurions I believe that the one with the longer grasping grooves was the one standardized for 92D/96D production; the one with the shorter grasping grooves were simply 92FS slides modded, and I suspect that they were very limited, and may have just been press mules. There was even one very early example that still had the divots where the "safe/fire" dots would be filled in with paint.

Of course, the 92DS (a 92D with a manual safety/safety levers) would have the shorter grooves, but I believe that there were only some 800 92DS pistols actually manufactured.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

As some of you know, I've run a 1996-vintage 92D for years. Here are my recommendations:

-On ANY pre-owned gun, and especially one with an unknown providence, I always recommend immediate replacement of recoil and magazine springs, either with Beretta or Wolff springs.

-I would also recommend immediately replacing the trigger return spring; OEM ones, especially earlier production ones, are notorious for lasting only around 2K triggerpull iterations; while Beretta years ago materially redesigned and strengthened it, I recommend replacing it with either one of Wolff's TCU springs (a captured coil spring), or Wilson reputedly has come out with a "lifetime" lever-type spring (like the OEM Beretta one), which I believe is made of chrome silica wire; while I've not seen or used it, I still recommend the Wolff TCU and their captured coil spring set-up for it's proven durability (both personally and with the Border Patrol, at whose behest it was specifically developed, back when they were issuing 96D Brigadiers).

-I also recommend replacing the trigger bar spring (immediately, and every 5K rounds/trigger manipulations (or annually) thereafter, and the slide lock spring (the Wolff one has a longer "leg," so it's also easier to install).

-Beretta 92-Series guns are somewhat lubrication intensive. On metal-on-metal reciprocating surface points, I use Mil-Comm TW25B; for general "oil-type" lubrication points, I use Weapon Shield, and for difficult/tricky action component areas, I prefer a moly-disulfide dry film lubricant, Dri-Slide, which utilizes a liquid evaporating carrier solution to reach necessary nooks and crannys via gravity and capillary action, and then evaporates, leaving a film of lubricant (which has the additional advantage of not serving as an attractant for GSR and dirt). Massad Ayoob's book, The Gun Digest Book of the Beretta is well worth it investing in for the excellent pictures he provides for pretty much all of the 92-Series requisite lubrication points. It's a fairly good read, albeit somewhat dated/overcome by post-publication events.

-Ahh, grips. The absolute best grip that I've encountered, and currently use (and have for years) is the exceptionally thin Trausch nylon/fiberglass grips. The literally transform the handling of the double-stack 92, enabling it to handle like a single-stack pistol. Their thinness enables the primary gripping surfaces to be the front- and back-straps, as opposed to the grip plates themselves. Unfortunately, these grips were fairly difficult to obtain in the US when they were in production, as Trausch never really developed an effective US distributor, and since he unexpectedly (and very unfortunately) passed away several years ago, the grips have essentially become made of unobtanium. The Wilson thin grips may well be the cat's meow, but I simply haven't personally exprerienced them; other users, on this forum and otherwise seem to be very pleased with them however.

-Magazines: I've been a sponsored shooter for Check-Mate Industries for several years, and have consistently had exceptional results with their dry-film magazines, including some that are over 10 years old, and some that have been long-term loaded for years. I particularly like their hardened-steel baseplates, which are significantly thinner than the OEM Beretta baseplates. Otherwise, I don't think that you can go wrong with Beretta/MDS magazines, or MecGars. The ne-plus-ultra magazine for a 92 is arguably the Beretta PVD-coated and internally straked "Sand" magazines, made specifically for fine sand environments, but they're fairly expensive.

-Cartridges: I use standard-pressure 9mm cartridges with my 92D; the "Classic Federal 9BP hollowpoint has an excellent record in the field for both accuracy and performance, so I've personally stuck with it, but DocGKR runs an excellent list that he continually updates on the Ammunition section of the forum-I'd go with anything he recommends in a standard-pressure loading.

-Sights: Mine came with OEM Trijicons, which have provided an excellent day and night sight picture (despite the tritium being significantly faded over the years-eventually, I'll ship it to Tool Tech and have them replace the front sight tritium capsule, but keep the dimmed rears as they are, to minimize low-light sight confusion. There are a number of alternatives, but the lack of a dovetailed front sight can severely constrain alternative selections, unless significant gunsmithing is involved.

I hope this helps.

Best, Jon
http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1163.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1163.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1164.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1164.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1158.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1158.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2107.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2107.jpg.html)

[JonInWA]

One other thing-as others have mentioned, the triggers on these D-Series Berettas is absolutely superb-usually right out of the box (and even more so with application of lubrication at the right points). A very experienced Smith & Wesson revolver aficionado and close friend compared the triggerpull to that not just of a classic Smith & Wesson revolver, but to that of a custom-tuned S&W-he literally thought it was that good.

Reset is like that on a revolver-fairly long. You quickly adjust to it.

About the only complaint of substance I have with these D-Series pistols, especially the full-size ones, is that the combination of the fairly long slide and barrel and the long-stroke/fairly far forward trigger makes strong- and weak-hand only shooting a bit of an acquired skill-and for me, its still a bit difficult and problematic.

I discussed with one of the Wilson reps awhile back about the viability of one of their(or Beretta's) new short triggers, but he advised against it; he felt that the triggerpull/triggerpull mechanics was really optimized with the OEM trigger-so I just suck it up and diligently incorporate strong- and weak-hand dryfire into my practice regimen...

Best,Jon

[StraitR]

I've never handled the Trausch grips, but for reference, here are the Wilson Ultra Thin grips. I have medium sized hands, and they make a big difference for me. It now feels more like holding a P220 or M&P45 than a Pontiac Aztec. They're a little pricey, but worth it IMO. They also happen to be on sale currently.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5768/22106494143_8e2cc7b9a3_c.jpg

[JonInWA]

Comparative images with Trausch grips; it looks like they may still be the "thinnest" 92 grip champ...(not that the Wilson's are thick, or a bad choice):

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1081.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1081.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1112.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1112.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1111.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1111.jpg.html)

Best, Jon

[StraitR]

Wow. Those Trausch grips a really thin. Too bad I can't get any. :(

My thoughts exactly, Tom. While I'm completely happy with my WC grips, I would buy a set of these to try if they were still available. I may want a pair even more just because they're not available. :p

Those are definitely king of thin, no question. I'm surprised someone else hasn't ran with this design, or similar thinness, tbh.

[Clobbersaurus]

I don't have any issues with standard width grips. But my hands are on the larger side. I notice that VZ has redesigned their golf-ball grips and now puts dimples higher up on the grip. Still not as high as I would like, but I may end up getting a set for IPSC prod div. I have their older golf ball grips and the dimples are quite effective.

Some more pics of my D with JMCK. The holster was made for my Elite II, but it works fine with the D after cranking down the retention screw.

http://i.imgur.com/BFnr9sDl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U5LUTCBl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dKVjszrl.jpg

[Clobbersaurus]

I was wondering if any of the Beretta aficionado's here have an idea what departments may have issued 92D Centurions? Based on the wear, I assume that mine was an issued gun, but I really don't know the history. Google searches are coming up with nothing and I'd really like to know more about it.

I replaced the recoil spring with a new one. The old one was quite compressed, and the slide now takes much more force to manipulate. I really like the captive spring pin on the guide rod. It take a little bit of pressure to remove the old spring and pop the new one back on, but I think it's a good little feature that probably saved a lot of springs from being launched into orbit.

[HCM]

I was wondering if any of the Beretta aficionado's here have an idea what departments may have issued 92D Centurions? Based on the wear, I assume that mine was an issued gun, but I really don't know the history. Google searches are coming up with nothing and I'd really like to know more about it.

I replaced the recoil spring with a new one. The old one was quite compressed, and the slide now takes much more force to manipulate. I really like the captive spring pin on the guide rod. It take a little bit of pressure to remove the old spring and pop the new one back on, but I think it's a good little feature that probably saved a lot of springs from being launched into orbit.

Not sure about the 92D Centurian. The popularity of the D series Beretta as law-enforcement guns coincided with the popularity of 40 caliber. The Fort Worth TX PD carried the 96D Centurian. The US border patrol, US INS, the Pennsylvania state police and the Shelby county Tennessee sheriffs office (Memphis) all used the 96D Brigadier. I believe the Ohio highway patrol carried the regular 96 with NP3 finish.

[Clobbersaurus]

Thanks HCM. As you indicated, I tend to see more 96D Centurions on the used market up here in Canada. It's possible my gun was issued to a department here in Canada. It's U.S. marked on the frame so I assume it was made for the North American market. I don't think it was originally a civilian gun, as short of competition guns, most pistols just don't have that amount of carry wear here in Canada.

[JonInWA]

I'm not completely sure regarding the Centurion, but I'm reasonably certain that the Chicago PD and USPS Inspectors issued or authorized 92D series Berettas.

Best, Jon

[HCM]

I'm not completely sure regarding the Centurion, but I'm reasonably certain that the Chicago PD and USPS Inspectors issued or authorized 92D series Berettas.

Best, Jon

Yes, the US Postal Inspectors issue the 92D Centurion. It replaced 3" Ruger GP 100's. I believe the Uniformed police at VA hospitals used them also.

[Clobbersaurus]

^^Interesting, thanks for that. It looks like the USPS switched to Sig 229 DAK's in .40 back in 2005.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-126812.html

[45dotACP]

I'm not completely sure regarding the Centurion, but I'm reasonably certain that the Chicago PD and USPS Inspectors issued or authorized 92D series Berettas.

Best, Jon

I've seen Chicago PD officers armed with a pretty enormous variety of pistols. Mostly they are DAO or striker fired pistols. I've seen Sig, Smith (third gen), Glock, and Beretta D series of some sort and the occasional revolver in the older guy's holster...

I feel sorry for their armorers :D

[TGS]

^^Interesting, thanks for that. It looks like the USPS switched to Sig 229 DAK's in .40 back in 2005.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-126812.html

I can personally verify that USPS Special Agents are shooting .40 P229s. Granted, the two I know are OIG, not Inspectors...so there's the possibility it's different.

[BigDaddy]

I've seen Chicago PD officers armed with a pretty enormous variety of pistols. Mostly they are DAO or striker fired pistols. I've seen Sig, Smith (third gen), Glock, and Beretta D series of some sort and the occasional revolver in the older guy's holster...

I feel sorry for their armorers :D


The Chicago PD does not issue pistols. Officers buy their own from a list of approved pistols.

[Clobbersaurus]

The Chicago PD does not issue pistols. Officers buy their own from a list of approved pistols.

Really? I'd be very interested to read the approved list of pistols and rules around that process. I wonder if mods are allowed?

[HCM]

Really? I'd be very interested to read the approved list of pistols and rules around that process. I wonder if mods are allowed?

It depends on hire date. Here you go:

http://directives.chicagopolice.org/lt2015/data/a7a57b38-137ec5db-e6913-7ec6-7ee3ce8cb24a817d.html

[Clobbersaurus]

Thanks for the link. That is a hot mess of regulation. I'm surprised that they allow the XD.

[Luke]

The ammo was my favorite part, basically anything.you want??

[cathellsk]

My local VA still uses Beretta 92D Centurians. Theirs also have magazine disconnects, takes special mags to make them work.

[Clobbersaurus]

I was finally able to get to the range today. I put 200 rounds through the Centurion with no issues.

I ran three F.A.S.T's with the gun:
6.07 (+2B) = 8.07 I shot this cold and haven't been to the range in three weeks
6.32 Clean
5.72 (+2H,+1B) = 8.72

B8 at 25 yards: 89-1X
http://i.imgur.com/IdZcoQJl.jpg

20 rounds at 7 yards; medium pace:
http://i.imgur.com/j6sRnFxl.jpg

3 Bill Drills at 7 yards (concealed, JMCK AIWB)
3.64: 1.76, 2.35, 2.67, 3.0, 3.31, 3.64
2.97(1 out): 1.90, 2.16, 2.43, 2.69, 2.97
2.81: 1.55, 1.83, 2.06, 2.32, 2.55, 2.81
http://i.imgur.com/KL75qRnl.jpg

Thoughts:

I really like this gun. Sights are well regulated, the trigger is great, though I did short stroke it a few times. I was able to get splits as low as .23, with most seeming to be around the .35 range. So the trigger is definitely slower, and I need more time with it.

Also, this gun is very soft shooting. I don't really know why, but it shoots softer than my other Centurion. An added bonus...

200 rounds down, 1800 to go!

[Clobbersaurus]

I was able to put another 250 rounds through my D Centurion today.

I had one stoppage on the first FAST of the day. The slide failed to lock back after the second shot. I am unsure if it was my grip or the mag, but the mag is 20 years old, and I haven't replaced the spring. I stopped using the mag and didn't have another issue for the rest of the session. I have three older mags that I don't trust now; I need to place a Wolff spring order.

I short stroked the trigger more than I liked today and have to work with it more to get the reset ingrained.

So that puts us at 450 rounds through the gun, one stoppage.

[Clobbersaurus]

I put 202 rounds through the Centurion D today.

No drama today, it just chugged along. It gave me my best three F.A.S.T's I've ever shot (see the F.A.S.T. thread for more info).

I have to say that it's by far my favourite pistol. It feels great and it recoils surprisingly soft. It's the perfect size.

And the trigger, oh man I love the trigger. I was able to pull out a 91-1x on a B8 at 25 yards with it today.

http://i.imgur.com/cqo9AHyl.jpg

I switched out the grips to an old set I aggressively stippled as the OEM's are a little too slippery for my taste.
So to recap: I'm at 652 rounds through the gun, 1 stoppage (failure of slide to lock back).

http://i.imgur.com/aIhzrtHl.jpg

[Clobbersaurus]

I put another 300 rounds through the Centurion on Sunday. 50 rounds 124gAE, 100 rounds 115gAE and 150 rounds 124g Blazer Brass.

I had four failures of the slide to lock back on an empty mag. These were all shooting SHO at a fairly quick pace. Totally my fault, as I was really trying to clamp down hard on the gun. I ended up having to flag my thumb to stop the issue.

The gun is chugging along nicely. It's hasn't been lubed or cleaned in 952 rounds and has had 5 stoppages (all operator error).

[StraitR]

Thanks for sharing. Always enjoy the Beretta porn. And it looks like we shop at the same place for targets. :D

[JonInWA]

I put another 300 rounds through the Centurion on Sunday. 50 rounds 124gAE, 100 rounds 115gAE and 150 rounds 124g Blazer Brass.

I had four failures of the slide to lock back on an empty mag. These were all shooting SHO at a fairly quick pace. Totally my fault, as I was really trying to clamp down hard on the gun. I ended up having to flag my thumb to stop the issue.

The gun is chugging along nicely. It's hasn't been lubed or cleaned in 952 rounds and has had 5 stoppages (all operator error).

Clobbersauras-Kudos to you for running the @K challenge with your Centurion 92D, but some words of caution-92 series pistols are fairly tightly tolerenced, and thus fairly lubrication intensive. Hopefully initially treated it to a pervasive, non migrating lubricant such as TW25B prior to commencing, especially on the slide/receiver rails and locking block/slide locking block slots. I'd be exceptionally wary of using the gun as a carry piece until the end of the test, when cleaned and re-lubed.

Last month I shot a match squadded with a 92 FS user who had not lubricated his gun in some time-his first stage wasn't pretty, as the gun repeatedly failed to effectively cycle. After tanking the stage, he applied lubricant, and it ran perfectly the rest of the day...

Frankly, I'm personally highly skeptical of the 2K challenge. There's been enough anecdotal and empirical evidence accumulated that short railed, polymer framed guns perform longer with minimal lubrication, and longer railed metal-framed guns need more lubrication at more frequent intervals. I see little point in potentially accelerating the wear, or risking my life if using such a gun while undergoing the challenge. While it's arguably unnecessary, I'm one of those who cleans and lubricates my guns after each use.

Rant off...you may now feel free to wander about the aisle...

Best, Jon

[ReverendMeat]

Clobbersauras-Kudos to you for running the @K challenge with your Centurion 92D, but some words of caution-92 series pistols are fairly tightly tolerenced, and thus fairly lubrication intensive. Hopefully initially treated it to a pervasive, non migrating lubricant such as TW25B prior to commencing, especially on the slide/receiver rails and locking block/slide locking block slots. I'd be exceptionally wary of using the gun as a carry piece until the end of the test, when cleaned and re-lubed.

This is good advice. I did the 2k challenge with my 92G using Fireclean IIRC, was not a great choice. If my ammo budget allowed I'd redo the challenge with a grease of some type. FWIW after the test a couple drops of CLP on the frame rails brought the gun back to 100%.

[45dotACP]

Long, metal railed firearms tend to be pretty lube sensitive...or should I say "lack of lube sensitive". I took my 1911 with nearly 1600 rounds without cleaning it, then went to a match where it was almost freezing and the gun cycled so slowly I could see the slide moving back and forth...this of course resulted in a malfunction or two and a fellow shooter was nice enough to let me use his lube...a few drops on the rails and the gun was a sewing machine again.

Too bad I had already buggered my classifier :mad:

In my experience, I've found my Beretta to be more sensitive to carbon buildup under the extractor than most designs...I'll get FTExtract as a reminder to scrub the breechface with a toothbrush from time to time. Probably ought to replace the spring too.

I'm finding myself really really liking the Beretta 92...which is unfortunate because having two berettas, two glocks and two 1911's will get expensive and then I get all sorts of weird looks around my house and people will start saying crazy stuff like "too many guns"

:D

[Clobbersaurus]

Clobbersauras-Kudos to you for running the @K challenge with your Centurion 92D, but some words of caution-92 series pistols are fairly tightly tolerenced, and thus fairly lubrication intensive. Hopefully initially treated it to a pervasive, non migrating lubricant such as TW25B prior to commencing, especially on the slide/receiver rails and locking block/slide locking block slots. I'd be exceptionally wary of using the gun as a carry piece until the end of the test, when cleaned and re-lubed.

Last month I shot a match squadded with a 92 FS user who had not lubricated his gun in some time-his first stage wasn't pretty, as the gun repeatedly failed to effectively cycle. After tanking the stage, he applied lubricant, and it ran perfectly the rest of the day...

Frankly, I'm personally highly skeptical of the 2K challenge. There's been enough anecdotal and empirical evidence accumulated that short railed, polymer framed guns perform longer with minimal lubrication, and longer railed metal-framed guns need more lubrication at more frequent intervals. I see little point in potentially accelerating the wear, or risking my life if using such a gun while undergoing the challenge. While it's arguably unnecessary, I'm one of those who cleans and lubricates my guns after each use.

Rant off...you may now feel free to wander about the aisle...

Best, Jon

Thanks for the comments Jon. This is the third 92 series pistol I have put through the challenge. The first, and Elite II, got through it without many issues. The second, a Turkish clone, choked completely after about 1200 rounds, and I had to clean and lube the gun. Both guns were bone dry, as in ZERO lube, by the end of the test.

For this pistol I packed it with Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 grease. After some research I decided to pick up a tube, which if it works, will be a lifetime supply. I wanted a lube that stays put and won't run out of the gun, which is a problem for Beretta's and the 2000 round challenge. I dry fire so much that the gun is often bone dry by the end of the challenge. We'll see how this stuff works.

http://i.imgur.com/CkwpVC0l.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/0KqycmBl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fkTusfnl.jpg

This is how the gun looked at the start of the challenge.
http://i.imgur.com/g0m0dk9l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OO2NJqll.jpg

[Clobbersaurus]

As info, I pulled the slide off my Centurion after dry fire tonight. There is still lots of lube visible on all the areas I applied it to.

So far so good with the Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2....

[Trooper224]

That stuff just looks like Plastilube repackaged. If so, great, as it's an excellent lube. I use it on my all metal pistols.

[45dotACP]

As info, I pulled the slide off my Centurion after dry fire tonight. There is still lots of lube visible on all the areas I applied it to.

So far so good with the Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2....
How does it handle the cold? Does it thicken up in chilly weather?

[Clobbersaurus]

How does it handle the cold? Does it thicken up in chilly weather?

I haven't noticed a difference, but I live in a part of Canada that doesn't really get that cold. I think it was about 2 Celsius when I was in the range in December. It worked normally.

Here's the info on Red "N" Tacky #2:

http://lucasoil.com/products/grease/red-n-tacky-grease



Lucas Red "N" Tacky Grease is a smooth, tacky, red lithium complex grease fortified with rust and oxidation inhibitors. It has good water resistance and washout properties. It has excellent mechanical stability and storage life. It is able to withstand heavy loads for extended periods of time. It can be used in many agricultural, automotive and industrial applications. Lucas Red "N" Tacky Grease is fortified with a high degree of extreme pressure additives that give it a TRUE Timken load much higher than other greases of this type. Its especially good for sliding surfaces and open gears.

KEY BENEFITS

Rust and oxidation inhibitors
Water resistant
Excellent mechanical stability
Long storage life
Agricultural, automotive and industrial applications

On the Walmart website it says it's working temperature is between -20 to 400 degrees Fahrenheit.

[JonInWA]

Interesting stuff-please keep us posted on how it works-good to know that it's performed viably (or, more properly, allowed the pistol to perform viably) in cold weather.

Best, Jon

[Jeep]

While it's arguably unnecessary, I'm one of those who cleans and lubricates my guns after each use.



While I think that the 2000 round challenge is a good way to "get to know" the pistol, once that is done (and I only occasionally do that) I'm also a firm believer in cleaning and lubing after each use--particularly for a carry gun. Allowing a huge amount of carbon build up on a pistol is just asking for a malfunction at a critical time.

[Sal Picante]

I've used to use Enos Heavy SlideGlide before and packed the gun full of it - on a cold March match I did have some grease induced stoppages.

Now, I just lube with CudaLube on everything. It is a lightweight grease/oil. Once it is on, lasts a long long time (I clean the gun more often than wear the stuff off... even on my competition guns)

http://benstoegerproshop.com/cudalube-high-performance-lubricant-oil-2oz/

[Clobbersaurus]

Here are some pics of the internals after almost 1000 rounds with no further lube or cleaning. There is still lots of lubrication on the locking block and frame rails, etc...

Another thing I like about the Red "N" Tacky is that it doesn't spit out of the gun. I'm used to having to wipe lube off my Oakley's after each range session, this stuff seems to stay where it's put.
http://i.imgur.com/4Q7CLdEl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PMz1TLVl.jpg

[Clobbersaurus]

I put another 250 rounds of 124g AE through my D today. I worked a lot of SHO/WHO today and had one failure of the slide to lock back with my SH. Totally my fault.

That puts 1202 rounds through the gun with 6 stoppages (all failure of the slide to lock on an empty mag - operator error).

[Clobbersaurus]

I put 300 rounds of AE 124g through the Centurion today.

I had three failures of the slide to lock back on an empty mag while shooting SHO. I was working on SHO transitions and I keep defaulting to wanting to clamp down on the gun instead of flagging my thumb. My fault entirely.

As info regarding the Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 lube, I had a shooter in the bay next to me who was interested in the Beretta so I pulled the slide off to show him how easy it was to disassemble. FWIW, there was still lots of lube visible on all the important parts. I'm really liking this lube and don't see a downside to using it. It's cheap, it stays where it's put and it most importantly, the gun works well with it.

So to recap, 1502 rounds through the gun since I last cleaned and lubed it with 9 stoppages (all failure of the slide to lock on an empty mag - operator error).

[Chuck Haggard]

My new gig has a stack of the Ds, could get issued one if I asked, which I am tempted to do.

[Jeep]

My new gig has a stack of the Ds, could get issued one if I asked, which I am tempted to do.

Chuck: Unless it is too nosy could you tell us what your new gig is?

[Chuck Haggard]

Chuck: Unless it is too nosy could you tell us what your new gig is?

Metro Topeka Airport Authority, small time gig, combo police and fire/crash rescue at a local air port.

[Joe in PNG]

My new gig has a stack of the Ds, could get issued one if I asked, which I am tempted to do.

Don't make me hate you by passing one up!

[JonInWA]

Chuck, it's a great pistol, but I'd suggest making sure that you're comfortably with its overall length (for carry comfort)(and what your holster options are may play a significant part here) and how well you can shoot it strong hand- and weak hand-only before committing to it as a duty weapon.

I've got a couple of other suggestions, but that's a good initial starting point/speedbump to be negotiated first, IMO.

Best, Jon

[Clobbersaurus]

I put 250 rounds of AE 124g through my Centurion today.

Unfortunately I had two failures to feed. I sourced the problem to one mag that did this:

http://i.imgur.com/bu57L62l.jpg

I knew my mags were getting a bit dirty but decided to run with it and paid the price. I have to clean them about every two range sessions now, any more than that and I'm running the risk of a failure. I bought some extra power Wolff mag springs which I'll vet after my match next week. I'll likely come close to finishing the 2000 round challenge at the match, we'll see!

So to recap, that's 1752 rounds through the Centurion since I last cleaned and lubed it with 11 stoppages (2 failures to Feed due to a bad mag and 9 failures of the slide to lock back due to improper grip).

[Mike C]

I put 250 rounds of AE 124g through my Centurion today.

Unfortunately I had two failures to feed. I sourced the problem to one mag that did this:

http://i.imgur.com/bu57L62l.jpg

I knew my mags were getting a bit dirty but decided to run with it and paid the price. I have to clean them about every two range sessions now, any more than that and I'm running the risk of a failure. I bought some extra power Wolff mag springs which I'll vet after my match next week. I'll likely come close to finishing the 2000 round challenge at the match, we'll see!

So to recap, that's 1752 rounds through the Centurion since I last cleaned and lubed it with 11 stoppages (2 failures to Feed due to a bad mag and 9 failures of the slide to lock back due to improper grip).

Just out of curiosity which mags are you running?

[Clobbersaurus]

Mec Gar 10 rounders.

[Mike C]

Thanks.

[Clobbersaurus]

I got my Centurion D past 2000 rounds today.

Total round count for the test: 2014
11 stoppages (2 failures to feed due to a dirty mag and 9 failures of the slide to lock back due to improper grip).

I had no other problems today and the mags all worked fine. The three older mags I have all work perfectly now that they are re-sprung with Wolff extra power springs. They are MUCH harder to load now than the Mec Gars. I will likely re-spring all my mags at the end of this IPSC season.

I took a bunch of the obligatory filthy pics, but what impressed me the most is the performance of the Lucas Red "N" Tacky # 2 lube. I have run three Beretta's through the 2000 round challenge now and my Elite II and Girsan were bone dry after about 1000 rounds. I dry fire a LOT, and all three guns were dry fired virtually daily, so the guns get a lot of manipulations as well as their rounds down range.

Below are pics of the locking block on my Elite II and Girsan after their respective 2000 round challenges (Girsan only had about 1250 rounds or so before lack of lube completely choked it):

Girsan:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03827_zpsqhhtkgrr.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03827_zpsqhhtkgrr.jpg.html)

Beretta Elite II:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03702_zps88e1454e.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03702_zps88e1454e.jpg.html)

Pics of the Centurion D with the Lucas Red "N" Tacky lube. Note how much lube is still on the rails and locking block after over 2000 rounds and almost daily dry fire:
http://i.imgur.com/4lC5wabl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JlSZzF7l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sOmgNM5l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WqAbxmal.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tFFqbEFl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2FKnbSAl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TiBuvXwl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eVUNqZRl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CEmnQ3Zl.jpg

I can't say enough good things about the Lucas product. I am using it in my Elite II as well and I have to say it has much superior longevity than any other lube I've tried. It doesn't gum up in cold weather, it doesn't spit out of the gun, rain doesn't seem to bother it and most importantly it's cheap and easy to find. My Centurion is now soaking in solvent. I will give it a good cleaning and then try it out at my club match next weekend.

I've come to really love my Centurion D. I plan to write a more thorough piece on it after my match next weekend.

[JonInWA]

You've sufficiently convinced me to at least give the Lucas stuff a shot, despite my being very satisfied for years with TW25B. Thanks for your reporting and images.

Best, Jon

[Luke]

Lucas is amazing oil! Be sure and get the extreme duty. They have two different kinds. The blue stuff is the extreme.


I just took a class shooting ~2300 rounds in 2 days. I was using the Lucas line and the more you shot it the smoother is got. Didn't leak out like the others I've tried either. I also bought some of there cleaning solvent, it smells like grapes!!

[Trooper224]

"Lucas Red "N" Tacky # 2 lube"

Sure looks like repackaged Mobile 1 Synthetic Grease or Plastilube.

[HCM]

"Lucas Red "N" Tacky # 2 lube"

Sure looks like repackaged Mobile 1 Synthetic Grease or Plastilube.

Close, it's a competitor.

[JonInWA]

After Clobbbersaurus' stellar reporting on using Lucas Red and Tacky grease, and its demonstrated long-term/high round count longevity, I decided to give it a try, despite being pretty pleased with TW25B, having successfully used it for years. While I'd never had any issues or mechanical seizures/hiccups when using TW25B, I had noticed that over time it does tend to evaporate, although I suspect that a film is left to effect lubrication. Still, I thought a more pervasive grease might be beneficial-hence my willingness to try the Red and Tacky.

It was a case of baby steps for me-First, i applied it to my venerable Ruger P89, whom a former Ruger project manager had strongly advised me to use a grease on the slide rails, as their anodization actually makes them harder than the carbon steel slide, and without grease accelerated wear can occur over time.

Then I applied it to my HK VP40.

Seeing how it successfully lubricated those two pistols, I decided to give the more finely-tolerenced Beretta 92D a shot with it, applying it prior to my monthly IDPA match; I figured that if there were tolerencing or viscosity issues, they'd show up in fairly short order during a match. I was very pleasently impressed-the gun ran impeccibly, replicating Clobbersaurus' experiences. As I told him, I thing his reporting of his use of it is the most beneficial thing from the 2K round tests.

I plan on running my 92D with it for the long term, and it will be next employed in the Washington State IDPA Championship match in August.

Again, kudos to Clobbersaurus and his reporting.

Best, Jon

[Clobbersaurus]

Thanks Jon, I'm glad it is working well for you.


Also, thank you for doing you own tests with it and reporting back.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I missed the earlier reports on the grease, but I have been using it on my SIGs and HKs. I really like all of the Lucas products I've tried so far.

[StraitR]

I thought I'd take this opportunity to use the PF Amazon search bar and purchase this grease, but the only Prime option appears to be out of stock. :(

[Nephrology]

So, I may have just scored this...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/569442937

What is on the instant to-buy list? Springs? Grips? Otherwise I'll hold off til I have the scratch to send it to Wilson.

[StraitR]

LIAR!

You just need to buy another $19.01 worth of stuff to get this add-on item shipped via Prime:


9237 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ARPVO8/)

or buy a 30-pack:


9238 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OZJNOY/)

:)

haha. But herein lies the problem...

9242

.
9243

I suppose the 30-pack is an option though. :D

[breakingtime91]

So, I may have just scored this...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/569442937

What is on the instant to-buy list? Springs? Grips? Otherwise I'll hold off til I have the scratch to send it to Wilson.

replace it all with wilson springs =D

[Nephrology]

replace it all with wilson springs =D

Oh I most certainly will... I am thinking the VZ/Wilson grips and then whatever replacement spring pack is easy enough to install to make it worthwhile. Otherwise I will keep it stock til I send it to Wilson sometime next year.

[StraitR]

DAMMIT! I need to stop ruining my own jokes by being lazy/inattentive.

lol. It was fantastic! I literally laughed out loud when I saw it. :p

And don't worry, I'm a total Amazon whore, so I'll be sure to start my shopping through our tool bar moving forward. ;)



9245

[Clobbersaurus]

So, I may have just scored this...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/569442937

What is on the instant to-buy list? Springs? Grips? Otherwise I'll hold off til I have the scratch to send it to Wilson.

That's a nice score. The only thing I replaced in mine is the recoil spring, but you should also consider the trigger return spring. New mag springs may be a wise investment as well. I have not had good luck with used OEM mags.

[StraitR]

I would definitely replace the trigger return spring on any used 92 I bought. Cheap and easy insurance.

[45dotACP]

Yep...new trs would be a must...otherwise the Wilson ultra thin grips and am extended mag catch.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[JonInWA]

Nephrology (and others), check my Post #25 on this thread for my recommendations on spring replacement.

Incidentally, the gun just acquired that we're discussing is a Police Special (discernable by the simplified "PB" emblem, and the stylized police shield in front of the word "Beretta" on the left side of the slide's rollmarking banner; the Police Specials of that era were distinguished primarily by a potentially (but not necessarily) slightly cruder-appearing finish; since they were a entry price/institutional buy item, BUSA allowed the slide cutters to run a bit longer before replacing, so the top portion of the slide may exhibit some minor ripple/chatter markings from the manufacturing process (which is of absolutely zero operational consequence)

Congrats on the gun.

Best, Jon

[Nephrology]

Thanks for the advice all. Just ordered some of the ulta thin WC G10 grips in black cherry, the duty spring kit, a standard power TCU and the WC short steel trigger. The rest of the upgrades will wait until I send it off to Wilson in the next 6 months or so.

Has any one installed the short trigger? How easy/hard is it? Reviews seem to indicate it's relatively simple to do - just want to make sure this is correct before I dive all the way in.

[breakingtime91]

Thanks for the advice all. Just ordered some of the ulta thin WC G10 grips in black cherry, the duty spring kit, a standard power TCU and the WC short steel trigger. The rest of the upgrades will wait until I send it off to Wilson in the next 6 months or so.

Has any one installed the short trigger? How easy/hard is it? Reviews seem to indicate it's relatively simple to do - just want to make sure this is correct before I dive all the way in.

Good videos on you tube of full take down. Seems very simple and I'm not blessed with skill at these type of things lol

[Joe in PNG]

Thanks for the advice all. Just ordered some of the ulta thin WC G10 grips in black cherry, the duty spring kit, a standard power TCU and the WC short steel trigger. The rest of the upgrades will wait until I send it off to Wilson in the next 6 months or so.

Has any one installed the short trigger? How easy/hard is it? Reviews seem to indicate it's relatively simple to do - just want to make sure this is correct before I dive all the way in.

I've installed three in the past 12 hours- not hard at all.

[StraitR]

Great info Jon, thank you.

Nephrology, I installed a WC SRT into a 92A1. It was my first pizza gun, and I had it for a week before doing it. I dug through YouTube until I found a disassembly/assembly video with good angles/lighting and went for it. It's pretty straight forward, and if I can do it, you can do it.

This might not be the only video you need to figure it out, but it will give you an idea of what's involved.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5zncTNsXUM

[farscott]

So, I may have just scored this...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/569442937

What is on the instant to-buy list? Springs? Grips? Otherwise I'll hold off til I have the scratch to send it to Wilson.

Nice snag. $390 is a great price.

I would replace the springs, and, if the gun is older, the locking block with the latest revision. The older locking blocks are prone to stress risers due to the lack of radii in two corners. If the block fractures, it is possible to damage the slide. The locking block is cheap insurance at $35 with the recoil spring.

http://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-92-96-locking-block-kit/le9201/

[Nephrology]

Nice snag. $390 is a great price.

I would replace the springs, and, if the gun is older, the locking block with the latest revision. The older locking blocks are prone to stress risers due to the lack of radii in two corners. If the block fractures, it is possible to damage the slide. The locking block is cheap insurance.

Thanks for the tip - I'll throw that on the pile with the extended mag release. I'll probably put maybe 500 or so rounds through the gun before I send it off to WC just to make sure I don't hate it. Otherwise this will be a long term project gun. I'll probably bag a second down the line and send it off as well...

[farscott]

Oops. Should not have posted.

[45dotACP]

Thanks for the tip - I'll throw that on the pile with the extended mag release. I'll probably put maybe 500 or so rounds through the gun before I send it off to WC just to make sure I don't hate it. Otherwise this will be a long term project gun. I'll probably bag a second down the line and send it off as well...
Get the DA/SA gun and you'll wonder why you ever bought a Glock in the first place...

[Nephrology]

Get the DA/SA gun and you'll wonder why you ever bought a Glock in the first place...

Whoa now, let's not get started with all that pizza pistol crazy talk just yet! haven't even taken delivery of the thing yet...

besides, the big appeal to me is the DAO trigger. I wish they still made these damn guns.

[breakingtime91]

Whoa now, let's not get started with all that pizza pistol crazy talk just yet! haven't even taken delivery of the thing yet...

besides, the big appeal to me is the DAO trigger. I wish they still made these damn guns.

you can't fight the pizza love. don't even try.

[45dotACP]

Also, pizza is best enjoyed with pepperoni... needs a new rear sight too for teh style points.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[breakingtime91]

*pepperoni rear with a red fiber front =D

[farscott]

You shouldn't have deleted your post. It contained useful/valuable information. :)

There's no loyalty test at PF. It's OK if people use others forums or even decide that some place else is a better fit for them (or just plain better). I like to think I work hard at making this place as good as it can be, and as much as I would like PF to be your do-everything-forum, I realize that's not terribly realistic. :cool:

I deleted the post because the other forum asks that the information not be posted. Sorry about that.

[Nephrology]

*pepperoni rear with a red fiber front =D

Unfortunately wilson combat is not installing FO sights on 92D or 96D series slides right now, and Tooltech has suspended their servicing of Beretta tritium slides. I'll have to wait...

The 92D will never unseat Glocks for me, unfortunately. I bought it to slot it in with my S&W revolvers - classic, well built all-steel handgun with a gorgeous rolling DA trigger. They are the pretty-pony practice compatriots for my soulless black pistols. Basics of trigger manipulation are basically the same and if anything augment my ability with the G-lock. not sure if I want to go headfirst into SA/DA pistols just yet.

[farscott]

Unfortunately wilson combat is not installing FO sights on 92D or 96D series slides right now, and Tooltech has suspended their servicing of Beretta tritium slides. I'll have to wait...

The reason that neither Tooltech nor Trijicon will service Beretta slides with tritium tubes inserted into fixed slides is interesting.

http://berettaforum.net/vb/showpost.php?p=1184843&postcount=25


It appears that the drilling integral sights, like on the 92FS, is not going to happen ever again. The issue is that IF the vial were to crack, the slide now has been "irradiated", and cannot be shipped interstate under NRC rules. Which means that it can't be warrantied, so Trijicon doesn't want to do that anymore. The solution will be some sort of pinned on sight addition for those lamping a 92FS or similar.

Looks like either the NRC made a new rule, applied an alternate interpretation to an existing rule, or something weird is happening. It appears that if a dovetail sight is damaged or leaks, it can be removed from the slide and properly disposed as "irradiated" objects cannot be shipped in interstate commerce. But if Tooltech gets a Beretta slide with fixed sights with a broken tritium vial, the slide is contaminated versus a dovetail sight being contaminated. Obviously the sight vendors do not want to be replacing slides if a vial breaks. So no more re-lamping slides with fixed sights. I guess the fix/workaround will be to somehow get a removable sight onto a Beretta slide.

Sounds stupid to me based on my knowledge of tritium, but federal regulations do not have to make sense to make life difficult. I remember when Rolex shipped watches with radium-painted dials for lume.

[JDM]

Having worked for the NRC, I'm just going to say that's not how it works. But, this being the Internet, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong.

How does it work?

[john c]

I deleted the post because the other forum asks that the information not be posted. Sorry about that.

Is there another forum where I can access this mysterious useful/valuable information? ;) Inquiring minds want to know...

[JDM]

I shouldn't have posted. So act like I didn't.

Solid copy.

[MGW]

I thought I'd take this opportunity to use the PF Amazon search bar and purchase this grease, but the only Prime option appears to be out of stock. :(

They have it at Walmart.

[farscott]

Having worked for the NRC, I'm just going to say that's not how it works. But, this being the Internet, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong.

Your reply makes sense to me. It does make me wonder why both Trijicon and Tooltech are telling that story.

[farscott]

Is there another forum where I can access this mysterious useful/valuable information? ;) Inquiring minds want to know...

PM sent with info. :)

[Nephrology]

PM sent with info. :)

PM me too, please!

[farscott]

PM me too, please!

PM sent. :)

[Clobbersaurus]

PM sent with info. :)

Me three please?

[Joe in PNG]

Same for me please

[farscott]

I think I got everyone.

[StraitR]

Not quite. Hit me up please. :cool:

[Chuck Whitlock]

Since I don't have the scratch to get in on these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/571797242

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/572485360

[StraitR]

Since I don't have the scratch to get in on these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/571797242

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/572485360

Oh man, that first one is a gem! Wow. I have a feeling that pisola will find its way to Circle WC Ranch.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Oh man, that first one is a gem! Wow. I have a feeling that pisola will find its way to Circle WC Ranch.

Glad to be an enabler! I used to have 96D Centurion, and would be vying for this gun if I could. The second one is rougher, but well worth the current bid.

[Nephrology]

Since I don't have the scratch to get in on these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/571797242

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/572485360

I'm watching the bottom one in the hopes I can steal it as a backup to the first one I am still waiting to pick up from my FFL :)

[JonInWA]

Farscott, if you can PM me with the info, I'd appreciate being able to get on this train-thanks.

Best, Jon

[farscott]

Farscott, if you can PM me with the info, I'd appreciate being able to get on this train-thanks.

Best, Jon

Done.

[farscott]

From Trijicon's web site: https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/support/faq_BNTNS.php


Tritium is a radioactive isotope that is regulated by the U.S. NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission). In accordance with Trijicon’s radiation safety program and ALARA (As Low As Reasonably Achievable) contamination / exposure principles, we will not perform tritium source installation into firearms or pistol slides with integral fixed sights. This is intended to protect our customers from the potential situation in which a source could become broken and not be repairable / returnable. We are actively looking into alternative solutions for this need.

If you have a firearm with a non-removable sight that requires repair, or have other questions, please contact Trijicon’s Technical Support with any questions by calling toll free at 1-800-338-0563, or 1-248-960-7700.

From Tooltech: http://tooltechgunsight.com/


IMPORTANT NOTICE: Effective immediately, Tooltech Gunsight will no longer be offering Trijicon Night Sights on Beretta 92 or Beretta 96 series slides. We are working on a solution to be able to offer night sights on these models in the near future. We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your patience.

The alternatives for those of us with existing fixed-sight lamp installs is unclear. I have a 92D incoming that has Trijicon lamps that need to be replaced due to age.

[Nephrology]

The alternatives for those of us with existing fixed-sight lamp installs is unclear. I have a 92D incoming that has Trijicon lamps that need to be replaced due to age.

I'm with you here.... Really unsure what I'll do. I asked Wilson and they basically said "nope not touching that front sight." I was wondering if they could just apply their Armor Tuff over the vial so that I had flat black sights.... that said I can live with their battlesight rear + a white circle, but having a dead tritium lamp in a gun I sent to Wilson seems somehow wrong...

edit: here's my proposed work order... any thoughts?

Action Tune
Contoured Mag Well
Battlesight rear sight
Fluted steel guide rod
Armor-Tuff frame refinish (GRAY)
WC logo laser etch.
$340

+ArmorTuff Slide (BLACK): $100
+Oversized Mag Release w/ WC Logo $45

Total: $485 + Pistol

also includes:
WC Short reach trigger
Std. weight trigger conversion
Wilson springs, incl. 16# hammer spring
Ultra thin grips

that I ordered and will install this week

[farscott]

My fix for the front sight is going to be a heat gun and a small Allen wrench. The heat gun will loosen the adhesive securing the vial to the front sight, and the small wrench, inserted into the front of the sight hole, will push out the lamp capsule. Once that is done, any of the sight options is available. I am leaning towards a red fiber optic insert.

As for the other changes, my plans are new springs, the Wilson mag guide, a new locking block kit, and lots of shooting.

[Nephrology]

My fix for the front sight is going to be a heat gun and a small Allen wrench. The heat gun will loosen the adhesive securing the vial to the front sight, and the small wrench, inserted into the front of the sight hole, will push out the lamp capsule. Once that is done, any of the sight options is available. I am leaning towards a red fiber optic insert.

As for the other changes, my plans are new springs, the Wilson mag guide, a new locking block kit, and lots of shooting.

You think the locking block kit is a must have?

edit: also, are you certain that adhesive is what is keeping the vial in? Sounds like a stupid question but I figured I'd just ask in case I decide to take the same route...

[farscott]

You think the locking block kit is a must have?

Depends on which version your gun has in it and the number of rounds on it. Mine is old enough that it does not have the 3rd generation block, which means it is much more prone to fracturing than the current version of the block. For $35, it is cheap preventative maintenance, especially when the possible damage from a fractured block is considered.

If your block has no visible cracks, it still could be cracked. Rather than take a chance, I just replace the block.

Pretty sure about the adhesive based on a quick discussion with a Trijicon rep and my engineering judgment. I am not using a torch; I am using a gun meant for electronics work that will allow me to dial in the temperature and volume per time (CFM) of the air I am focusing on the sight.

[Clobbersaurus]

My fix for the front sight is going to be a heat gun and a small Allen wrench. The heat gun will loosen the adhesive securing the vial to the front sight, and the small wrench, inserted into the front of the sight hole, will push out the lamp capsule. Once that is done, any of the sight options is available. I am leaning towards a red fiber optic insert.


I just checked my 92D and the FO rods that came with my Dawson do fit the hole at the muzzle side of the front sight. My question is how do you intend to bloom the fiber at the front face? I assume the heat gun will remove all the adhesive? If so, how do you intend to fill the hole around the FO rod? Or do you intend to just heat it enough to push the tritium lamp out and then install the rod with the white adhesive around it?

I'm interested to see how it goes for you. Please post pics if you can...

[farscott]

I just checked my 92D and the FO rods that came with my Dawson do fit the hole at the muzzle side of the front sight. My question is how do you intend to bloom the fiber at the front face? I assume the heat gun will remove all the adhesive? If so, how do you intend to fill the hole around the FO rod? Or do you intend to just heat it enough to push the tritium lamp out and then install the rod with the white adhesive around it?

I'm interested to see how it goes for you. Please post pics if you can...

The heat gun will just break the adhesive seal, but not remove it. I might have to use a solvent to remove adhesive residue. I will not know until I remove the old sight vial.

My plan, such as it is, is to use the heat gun to melt the end of the fiber and make it bloom. I also am going to experiment with a few other fiber diameters.

[JonInWA]

Let me first commend Farscott with his willingness to experiment; what he's proposing sounds very viable. However, for those of you concerned about being stuck with a 92 with dead/ineffective tritium vials, the Trijicon sights still provide an excellent sight picture, particularly in daytime, with their white vial end surrounds and decently-sized rear sight notch. They are, in my opinion, better than the OEM Beretta sight set-up, operating tritium or not.

Best, Jon

[Nephrology]

Let me first commend Farscott with his willingness to experiment; what he's proposing sounds very viable. However, for those of you concerned about being stuck with a 92 with dead/ineffective tritium vials, the Trijicon sights still provide an excellent sight picture, particularly in daytime, with their white vial end surrounds and decently-sized rear sight notch. They are, in my opinion, better than the OEM Beretta sight set-up, operating tritium or not.

Best, Jon

Yeah, I am sort of resigning myself to living with the white dots. I'll replace the rear sight with a Novak or Wilson Combat at some point either way to get a flat black rear; I can probably live with a white circle if it is visible/durable enough on its own.

[farscott]

Since my 92D is not in hand -- and will not be for several more weeks -- it is going to be a while before I get to it. It is probably going to end up being a winter project. I am just knocking out the research on breaks during my current business trip.

The idea of using just the outlines of the tritium vials is interesting. I need to try that before I pop out the vials. BTW, the heat gun I am using is a Steinel HG 2510 ESD. Specs: http://www.steinel.net/RelId/607740/ISvars/default/Specifications.htm

[Nephrology]

So I finally got my hands on the 92D. A few misc thoughts in no particular order:

Trigger is pretty good but seems to stack a bit at the end. Not quite the S&W revolver trigger I was hoping for, but I haven't cleaned it or swapped any springs yet either.

Definitely not nearly as big as I thought it'd be and I have rather small hands; even with the crappy Hogues I can still dry fire it OK. Excited to get the Wilson grips.

Tritium sights are super dead, but 2 seconds of sharpie to the rears and it is a very functional sight picture.

Still unsure if I am going to keep this thing + end up sending it to Wilson. I'll put 500-1k rounds through it once I install all of the parts I ordered and see how I feel after that.

Sort of wondering if I shoulda gotten the FS, but that opens up a whole rabbit hole of SA/DA guns when I mostly run striker... running a DAO doesn't really bother me. Actually after dry-firing this Beretta, my Glocks seem stupid easy in comparison.

That said despite all of my reservations, this is a really nice gun. Still strongly considering sending it to WC.

Also, a question: I know this was posted earlier, but is there an easy guide on where/how to lube Berettas? I get grease for the slide/frame fit, but how about the trigger components? slide? I ask because I hear this "creaky gate" sound when I pull the trigger that says "oil me!." But for the life of me I can't find where the squeak is coming from... trying to avoid just soaking it in Slip2000...

[Bummy425]

For lubing....there r a couple nice videos on youtube....

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[CoGT3]

Check this thread for lube Reus:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?t=10185


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[OlongJohnson]

The D trigger mechanism is incredibly simple. Start taking parts off and it should be obvious what's going on. Concepts about normal "trigger jobs" and what's involved or what they can do may not apply.

Clean it and lube it and it should come up nicer than most S&W revolvers that haven't had special work. Once you get used to it and find ammo that works with it, you should be shooting some very accurate groups.

[Clobbersaurus]

So I finally got my hands on the 92D. A few misc thoughts in no particular order:

Trigger is pretty good but seems to stack a bit at the end. Not quite the S&W revolver trigger I was hoping for, but I haven't cleaned it or swapped any springs yet either.

Definitely not nearly as big as I thought it'd be and I have rather small hands; even with the crappy Hogues I can still dry fire it OK. Excited to get the Wilson grips.

Tritium sights are super dead, but 2 seconds of sharpie to the rears and it is a very functional sight picture.

Still unsure if I am going to keep this thing + end up sending it to Wilson. I'll put 500-1k rounds through it once I install all of the parts I ordered and see how I feel after that.

Sort of wondering if I shoulda gotten the FS, but that opens up a whole rabbit hole of SA/DA guns when I mostly run striker... running a DAO doesn't really bother me. Actually after dry-firing this Beretta, my Glocks seem stupid easy in comparison.

That said despite all of my reservations, this is a really nice gun. Still strongly considering sending it to WC.

Also, a question: I know this was posted earlier, but is there an easy guide on where/how to lube Berettas? I get grease for the slide/frame fit, but how about the trigger components? slide? I ask because I hear this "creaky gate" sound when I pull the trigger that says "oil me!." But for the life of me I can't find where the squeak is coming from... trying to avoid just soaking it in Slip2000...

Note: I'm no expert, I just shoot Beretta's. On all mine I took a Qtip and packed a little grease around the trigger components, the hammer where it mates with the trigger bits, the the transfer bar, and the trigger where it meets the bar. Then dry fire it a couple thousand times, and that should work the grease through all of the trigger components. If your pistol is an ex police gun you might notice quite a bit of difference once you put some reps through it. Hopefully Les will chime in with his method.

[Welder]

Re: Trigger stacking. I haven't ever felt a Beretta trigger that didn't have some amount of stacking near the end, including ones worked over by qualified smiths. I believe it comes from the additional effort of raising the firing pin block at the end of the stroke. The stock D trigger is a joy compared to the stock FS / G triggers, in smoothness if not in stroke length. Not that any of these triggers are bad.

I own two D models; one is an old police issue 96D that I only keep because a person should have a fo-tay, and the trigger is phenomenal. The other is one I'm still building for CC - have the Compact 92D slide and bits needed to convert one of the new checkered compact frames to D, but don't have the compact frame yet.

[Nephrology]

Re: Trigger stacking. I haven't ever felt a Beretta trigger that didn't have some amount of stacking near the end, including ones worked over by qualified smiths. I believe it comes from the additional effort of raising the firing pin block at the end of the stroke. The stock D trigger is a joy compared to the stock FS / G triggers, in smoothness if not in stroke length. Not that any of these triggers are bad.

I own two D models; one is an old police issue 96D that I only keep because a person should have a fo-tay, and the trigger is phenomenal. The other is one I'm still building for CC - have the Compact 92D slide and bits needed to convert one of the new checkered compact frames to D, but don't have the compact frame yet.

Good to know. Puts some of this in context. I'm still sort of feeling it out - it's hard to shake the "new gun" feeling. It's definitely a very shootable trigger. Considering putting the 14# mainspring in there vs. the 16# that I swapped in earlier.

One surprise was that the Wilson short reach trigger did not function nearly as well as I'd hoped. Caused a lot of failures to reset. Pulled it all apart and swapped back in the old trigger, works fine now. I'll send it back to Wilson. their customer service told me their trigger should work fine in a D series pistol - they must have been mistaken. I'm also thinking over swapping on a reduced power Wolff TCU, too, but that can wait. Range in the AM!

[Willard]

Good to know. Puts some of this in context. I'm still sort of feeling it out - it's hard to shake the "new gun" feeling. It's definitely a very shootable trigger. Considering putting the 14# mainspring in there vs. the 16# that I swapped in earlier.

One surprise was that the Wilson short reach trigger did not function nearly as well as I'd hoped. Caused a lot of failures to reset. Pulled it all apart and swapped back in the old trigger, works fine now. I'll send it back to Wilson. their customer service told me their trigger should work fine in a D series pistol - they must have been mistaken. I'm also thinking over swapping on a reduced power Wolff TCU, too, but that can wait. Range in the AM!

I like the TCU in my Brigadier, but from what I can tell, my perception is by no means unanimous. They did strengthen the trigger spring, so maybe not a necessity with the latest springs.

[Welder]

...their customer service told me their trigger should work fine in a D series pistol - they must have been mistaken.....

I also would have thought the SRT would have worked in the D - learn something new every day. I love shooting the D, but being used to DA/SA I find myself short-stroking the trigger a lot after the first pull.

[JonInWA]

I also would have thought the SRT would have worked in the D - learn something new every day. I love shooting the D, but being used to DA/SA I find myself short-stroking the trigger a lot after the first pull.

Then you're probably not dry-fire practicing with it enough...(or live-firing enough).

Hey, it could be worse-try transitioning to a 1911 from a DA/SA double-stack pistol....

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Good to know. Puts some of this in context. I'm still sort of feeling it out - it's hard to shake the "new gun" feeling. It's definitely a very shootable trigger. Considering putting the 14# mainspring in there vs. the 16# that I swapped in earlier.

One surprise was that the Wilson short reach trigger did not function nearly as well as I'd hoped. Caused a lot of failures to reset. Pulled it all apart and swapped back in the old trigger, works fine now. I'll send it back to Wilson. their customer service told me their trigger should work fine in a D series pistol - they must have been mistaken. I'm also thinking over swapping on a reduced power Wolff TCU, too, but that can wait. Range in the AM!

When I considered moving to the short trigger on mine, I had a detailed discussion with one of the Wilson reps, who frankly advised me to leave well enough alone, that on the 92D the trigger/trigger stroke really were pretty much optimized with the OEM trigger. I appreciated his frankness, and have happily remained with the OEM trigger. Yep, it's a bit of a long trigger stroke, but that's really only a bit of a handicap with strong-hand/weak-hand only shooting (the combination of the longer triggerpull combined with the weight and balance of the gun can be a bit of, shall we say, an acquired skill set-and mine is still wanting, as graphically demonstrated to all in this month's IDPA match where we had a strong-hand/weak-hand stage-my results weren't pretty...).

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Check this thread for lube Reus:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?t=10185


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yep-although I've replaced the TW25B I recommended as a grease with Lucas' Red & Tacky #2, as recommended by Clobbersaurus; it's more pervasive and longer-lasting than the TW25B, with no operational hiccups or degradation.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

The D trigger mechanism is incredibly simple. Start taking parts off and it should be obvious what's going on. Concepts about normal "trigger jobs" and what's involved or what they can do may not apply.

Clean it and lube it and it should come up nicer than most S&W revolvers that haven't had special work. Once you get used to it and find ammo that works with it, you should be shooting some very accurate groups.

Yep-that's my experience as well. The "triggerpull equivalent to a well-tuned Smith & Wesson revolver" analogy I heard too-in my case from a personal friend with extensive hammer time with tuned Smith & Wesson revolvers-after he'd handled my 92D for the first time after I'd cleaned and lubricated it.

The best print lubing guide for a 92 is in Massad Ayoob's "The Gun Digest Book of the Beretta" where he has an extensive, and lavishly illustrated section devoted to it-worth the price of the book (which otherwise is a bit dated but still a good read). Otherwise, YouTube is your friend.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Note: I'm no expert, I just shoot Beretta's. On all mine I took a Qtip and packed a little grease around the trigger components, the hammer where it mates with the trigger bits, the the transfer bar, and the trigger where it meets the bar. Then dry fire it a couple thousand times, and that should work the grease through all of the trigger components. If your pistol is an ex police gun you might notice quite a bit of difference once you put some reps through it. Hopefully Les will chime in with his method.

Another useful lubricant I use on my 92D is Dri-Slide, a dry-film molybdnum disulfide lubricant suspended in a liquid carrier solution-capillary action carries it to the various difficult to reach nooks and crannies of the action components, and the liquid evaporates, leaving a dry film of lubricant-which has the additional advantages of NOT serving as an attractant to GSR, and concurrently provides a measure of anti-corrosive protection. My understanding is that Strike-Hold is similar, both in composition and lubrication/anti-corrosion benefits.

Best, Jon

[Joe in PNG]

Tried the SRT on my D, found the same short stroking problems, and went back to the OEM.

[Nephrology]

so... I went and shot it today at the range, very quickly + casually with a buddy, so no formal evaluation really. Fed and functioned with 0 complaints. Trigger was shootable, a bit long, but very shootable. I was chewing out the X ring of a B-28 at 7 yards at a moderate tempo with ease. Shot the Typewriter drill (http://pistol-training.com/drills/typewriter) and was at least a second slower than with my G17 but I would say more consistently accurate - far less likely to throw a shot, and if so, less likely to throw as far off target.

That said.... the gun just seemed... not what I had hoped for? It's basically everything I expected, but I think in my head I had somehow hyped it up. It isn't as easy to shoot as my Glocks or S&W revolvers, to be honest, and the trigger just didn't do it for me. I can't explain why, as everything about it says I should like it but... somehow I don't. Hard to explain. Might be sending this one on to a new owner; I don't really want to keep it around if it's not giving me the intangible je ne sais quoi I was looking for.

[Welder]

Then you're probably not dry-fire practicing with it enough...(or live-firing enough).

You're right. I don't practice with the 96D at all. It's a safe gun that I pull out occasionally once I've picked enough live .40's off the ground at matches to load a full mag. :) Once the 642 arrives, I'll get serious about DAO - might pop a 92 barrel into the D so I can start training myself for that long continuous trigger stroke. Funny how most people have to get used to the DA/SA transition, and in my case I'm going to have to get used to not having a transition.

[45dotACP]

so... I went and shot it today at the range, very quickly + casually with a buddy, so no formal evaluation really. Fed and functioned with 0 complaints. Trigger was shootable, a bit long, but very shootable. I was chewing out the X ring of a B-28 at 7 yards at a moderate tempo with ease. Shot the Typewriter drill (http://pistol-training.com/drills/typewriter) and was at least a second slower than with my G17 but I would say more consistently accurate - far less likely to throw a shot, and if so, less likely to throw as far off target.

That said.... the gun just seemed... not what I had hoped for? It's basically everything I expected, but I think in my head I had somehow hyped it up. It isn't as easy to shoot as my Glocks or S&W revolvers, to be honest, and the trigger just didn't do it for me. I can't explain why, as everything about it says I should like it but... somehow I don't. Hard to explain. Might be sending this one on to a new owner; I don't really want to keep it around if it's not giving me the intangible je ne sais quoi I was looking for.
Needs moar DA/SA

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[OlongJohnson]

Another useful lubricant I use on my 92D is Dri-Slide, a dry-film molybdnum disulfide lubricant suspended in a liquid carrier solution-capillary action carries it to the various difficult to reach nooks and crannies of the action components, and the liquid evaporates, leaving a dry film of lubricant-which has the additional advantages of NOT serving as an attractant to GSR, and concurrently provides a measure of anti-corrosive protection. My understanding is that Strike-Hold is similar, both in composition and lubrication/anti-corrosion benefits.

Best, Jon

I've moved away from molybdenum disulfide. Was googling it and found some very old technical reports evaluating its effectiveness when used as a grease additive. Turns out it is only beneficial under conditions where the contact pressures are so high that a grease film has broken down and no longer functions. Then it plates onto the surfaces and provides some protection. But when the grease IS working, the particles are actually abrasive and increase wear rates. Additionally, the disulfide part of it reacts with H2O in the way sulfur compounds usually do, generating some equilibrium level of sulfuric acid. So if you're in a humid environment, it can significantly increase corrosion. Basically, a lose-lose in normal operation, but provides a slight cushion if the operating conditions exceed the design's engineered load-carrying capacity.

It has some potential as a dry lube in vacuum conditions, where graphite doesn't work.

Graphite is also potentially problematic in humid environments due to its galvanic effects against basically all metals.

I've been working through a can of Lubriplate SFL-0. Super-quality high-temp synthetic, food grade so there's no issue if it gets on your hands. Like it, and will have it for awhile.

[GJM]

Whenever I shoot my 92D, I think "this thing is missing the (Beretta 92) happy switch."

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

That said.... the gun just seemed... not what I had hoped for?

You just need to start nesting and make it your own :cool:

http://i.imgur.com/t14YjURl.jpg

The other option is to track down a 92G Elite or Elite II and game the hammer spring.

[JonInWA]

I've moved away from molybdenum disulfide. Was googling it and found some very old technical reports evaluating its effectiveness when used as a grease additive. Turns out it is only beneficial under conditions where the contact pressures are so high that a grease film has broken down and no longer functions. Then it plates onto the surfaces and provides some protection. But when the grease IS working, the particles are actually abrasive and increase wear rates. Additionally, the disulfide part of it reacts with H2O in the way sulfur compounds usually do, generating some equilibrium level of sulfuric acid. So if you're in a humid environment, it can significantly increase corrosion. Basically, a lose-lose in normal operation, but provides a slight cushion if the operating conditions exceed the design's engineered load-carrying capacity.

It has some potential as a dry lube in vacuum conditions, where graphite doesn't work.

Graphite is also potentially problematic in humid environments due to its galvanic effects against basically all metals.

I've been working through a can of Lubriplate SFL-0. Super-quality high-temp synthetic, food grade so there's no issue if it gets on your hands. Like it, and will have it for awhile.

Olong, you raise some points worth researching, which I plan on doing and will report back- appreciate your comments.

However, I've never used Dri-Slide as a grease additive-I use it in specific areas as a stand-alone lubricant. Frankly, I can't see any point in using it combined with a grease-for me, it's a "one or another" sorta thing. In terms of lubricative properties, my general feeling is that a properly formulated and applied grease is superior-except 1)where there are areas requiring lubrication, and grease is difficult to impossible to apply, and 2) for lubrication/anti-corrosiveness where there is a need to have a lubricant that doesn't serve as an attractant to GSR that will morph into an abrasive paste.

I'm not a chemist of physicist, so I have no idea whatsoever when you talk about "some equilibrium level of sulfuric acid." You seem to be alluding to a increased risk of corrosiveness occurring if water comes into contact with treated components, but I'm 1) unsure if that's really what you're trying to say, and 2) if it's specifically applicable to Dri-Slide-treated components-in my empirical experience, that certainly has not been the case. Given the intended specified use by the manufacturer, what you seem to be asserting as a risk seems counter-intuitive-but if you've had different experience/reports, I'm certainly interested.

I've used Dri-Side consistently since the early 1990s-particularly in revolvers, and secondarily in semi-auto's action components. I also prefer to apply it in the interior of my magazine tubes, magazine springs, and the inner surfaces of followers and baseplates. I've never had or noticed any of the potentially deleterious effects that you mention as possibilities-but that doesn't mean that they couldn't, or haven't occurred. Geographically, my use has been primarily been in the areas of western Washington, central and northeast Texas, so the humidity issue you mention hasn't cropped up as a significant factor one way or another.

I do think that there are limits to the viability of Dri-Slide as a lubricant; I simply doubt that it's anywhere as effective, lubrication-wise and longevity-wise as a grease or, in many cases, oil (or oil-like synthetic lubricant). But it has shined for me in revolver actions and difficult-to-reach semi-auto components. Similarly, in a desert or cold winter climate, I suspect that it would do quite well. But where there's significant metal-on-metal bearing forces involved, as a general rule of thumb I'll go to another product.

I've also read and anecdotally heard of good reports of Lubriplate, but I've never personally tried it.

Not to be a shill for them, but here's the product info sheet from their website, specifically about the Dri-Slide Weapons formulation:
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0095/7332/files/TDS_Weapons_Lube.pdf?41

Best, Jon

[OlongJohnson]

You just need to start nesting and make it your own :cool:

http://i.imgur.com/t14YjURl.jpg

The other option is to track down a 92G Elite or Elite II and game the hammer spring.

That reminds me of the Fast and Furious era. The one before the ATF appropriated the title and screwed up all the memes.

[Clobbersaurus]

so... I went and shot it today at the range, very quickly + casually with a buddy, so no formal evaluation really. Fed and functioned with 0 complaints. Trigger was shootable, a bit long, but very shootable. I was chewing out the X ring of a B-28 at 7 yards at a moderate tempo with ease. Shot the Typewriter drill (http://pistol-training.com/drills/typewriter) and was at least a second slower than with my G17 but I would say more consistently accurate - far less likely to throw a shot, and if so, less likely to throw as far off target.

That said.... the gun just seemed... not what I had hoped for? It's basically everything I expected, but I think in my head I had somehow hyped it up. It isn't as easy to shoot as my Glocks or S&W revolvers, to be honest, and the trigger just didn't do it for me. I can't explain why, as everything about it says I should like it but... somehow I don't. Hard to explain. Might be sending this one on to a new owner; I don't really want to keep it around if it's not giving me the intangible je ne sais quoi I was looking for.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. The 92D definitely isn't for everyone. Sell it to a good home and move on to something that works a little better for you.

For me, the 92D represents just about the perfect fusion of the features I want in a defensive pistol.

It's a stripped down work pistol that is simple to operate with no safety leavers to think about. The DAO trigger, hammer and firing pin block design are all excellent safety features. It has a very shootable trigger. It's ultra reliable with the proper lube and mags. The grip length makes Beretta's easy to carry. Parts are easy to find. It's also got some damn style and history to it. :cool:

[Nephrology]

Sorry it didn't work out for you. The 92D definitely isn't for everyone. Sell it to a good home and move on to something that works a little better for you.

For me, the 92D represents just about the perfect fusion of the features I want in a defensive pistol.

It's a stripped down work pistol that is simple to operate with no safety leavers to think about. The DAO trigger, hammer and firing pin block design are all excellent safety features. It has a very shootable trigger. It's ultra reliable with the proper lube and mags. The grip length makes Beretta's easy to carry. Parts are easy to find. It's also got some damn style and history to it. :cool:

See, the thing is, I totally agree with everything that you are saying - that's why I bought the gun to begin with. On paper, I couldn't imagine a more perfect autoloader. And yet... when I had it out at the range, I just felt it was kinda uninspiring. When I pick up my S&W wheelguns I think, "this is a perfect revolver and an example of beautiful craftsmanship, and I feel lucky to own it." When I pick up my Glocks, I think, "this is a gun I could take with me to hell and back." When I picked up the Beretta, I kind just thought, "...Yeah, this is pretty cool I guess."

There's absolutely no logic to it whatsoever and frankly I don't really understand it myself. Still, that said, I bought the gun to bring a little more passion to my shooting, and it doesn't seem to be doing it for whatever reason... so, off it goes!

[Clobbersaurus]

See, the thing is, I totally agree with everything that you are saying - that's why I bought the gun to begin with. On paper, I couldn't imagine a more perfect autoloader. And yet... when I had it out at the range, I just felt it was kinda uninspiring. When I pick up my S&W wheelguns I think, "this is a perfect revolver and an example of beautiful craftsmanship, and I feel lucky to own it." When I pick up my Glocks, I think, "this is a gun I could take with me to hell and back." When I picked up the Beretta, I kind just thought, "...Yeah, this is pretty cool I guess."

There's absolutely no logic to it whatsoever and frankly I don't really understand it myself. Still, that said, I bought the gun to bring a little more passion to my shooting, and it doesn't seem to be doing it for whatever reason... so, off it goes!

Try 1911's, people seem to like them for some reason.....:p

[JonInWA]

See, the thing is, I totally agree with everything that you are saying - that's why I bought the gun to begin with. On paper, I couldn't imagine a more perfect autoloader. And yet... when I had it out at the range, I just felt it was kinda uninspiring. When I pick up my S&W wheelguns I think, "this is a perfect revolver and an example of beautiful craftsmanship, and I feel lucky to own it." When I pick up my Glocks, I think, "this is a gun I could take with me to hell and back." When I picked up the Beretta, I kind just thought, "...Yeah, this is pretty cool I guess."

There's absolutely no logic to it whatsoever and frankly I don't really understand it myself. Still, that said, I bought the gun to bring a little more passion to my shooting, and it doesn't seem to be doing it for whatever reason... so, off it goes!

I understand what you're saying. My only suggestion for you at this point would be to try it in a match before you get rid of it-it's dynamic handling under stress might re-ignite some passion for it.

That said, I suspect you won't have any problem whatsoever in finding a new home for it should you choose the divestiture route...

And hey, if nothing else, we've had a great 17 page thread on 92Ds-which is a win in my book.

Best, Jon

[Scal]

That said, I suspect you won't have any problem whatsoever in finding a new home for it should you choose the divestiture route.

Best, Jon

True.

[LockedBreech]

That said, I suspect you won't have any problem whatsoever in finding a new home for it should you choose the divestiture route...



*coughs conspicuously*

[farscott]

Yes, I suspect recouping the investment in the 92D will not be an issue.

[Scal]

He already sold it to some weirdo through another forum.:D

[Joe in PNG]

He already sold it to some weirdo from another forum.:D

Traitor!

[Nephrology]

Traitor!

It's on to a new home.

[Joe in PNG]

It's on to a new home.

But not mine :(

[LockedBreech]

He already sold it to some weirdo through another forum.:D

It's like being cheated on, yet infinitely worse


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

It does sting a little that it was sold elsewhere, but I try not to sell on PF either because...

1) Nobody here is fanatical enough to overpay. :p

1) I'd want to give everyone here the Friends & Family discount anyway.

[StraitR]

I don't know what kind of shenanigans you're trying to pull here to sell guns Tom, but universal healthcare is a good thing, and it's free.

'We have decided that it's time to give every American quality healthcare" - Obama

See, GIVE means free. SO nice of him.

ETA: :p:mad:

[GardoneVT]

It's a pretty expensive gift.

Considering how violent Obamas hometown is nowadays, it's a necessary one.

[Welder]

I don't know what's in the water, but people are paying even less attention to the D's than usual. I just picked up two civilian models off GB, each of them basically new. The first was a 92D Centurion for about $450 which I just brought home this afternoon and the second was a 96D that I put the minimum bid of $350 on a couple days ago and just got the email that I ended up with that one, too.... I didn't figure I'd get either of them, was just sort of fooling around enjoying the bidding process.

This Centurion doesn't look like it's seen more than a mag or two through it; basically perfect. The 96 has all appearances of being in the same shape. :)

[Clobbersaurus]

Good scores dude. The D series pistols don't usually sell for much. I got mine for $500CAN which is worth like $0.11 USD.

I believe the simple fact that most people don't really know how to shoot becomes the stumbling factor on the D. The DAO trigger scares most people off. Hence the cheaper price, which allows us enlightened folk to snap up great deals on great pistols.

[Welder]

Well the old battered 96D I already had, has probably had about 3 mags through it while in my ownership. I've related it here before, but it's the only .40 I own and I collected loaded .40's I found on the range until I had a full mag's worth, then loaded it up and shot it. Never have gotten anywhere near used to the DAO feel, but now that I have my Smith 642 I'm going to start practicing with the 92D to start working on some DAO skillz. Maybe stuff it in a holster and take it to a match once I get over the short-stroking that happens every now and then when I revert to DA/SA habits.

The trigger quality on this Centurion is truly great; not what you'd expect from a brand new pistol that didn't come from a custom shop.

[JonInWA]

The excellent out-of-the-box triggerpull is one of the key hallmarks of the of the 92/96 D series guns. These D series guns really are an exceptional value, really needing no additional gunsmithing to derive their benefits.

Best, Jon

[Sal Picante]

GAT Guns in Elgin, IL had 2 Centurions... One of 'em was a D model and the other was an FS. Both are in the used cabinet... Looked alright, but i didn't have time to fondle...

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

Your good turn for the day would be to buy both and send me whichever you don't prefer.

[3-7-77]

This will coming soon to an FFL near me
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/fac66f3a720c350f7ecf8787d9af7a43.png

[DAO Liker]

If anyone else has a 92D they want to sell, or leads on where to get one (local stores, etc.) please reply with the contact info. I've been looking for one for awhile and they don't pop up locally, and Gunbroker is hit and miss.

[JonInWA]

Your best bet might be along the lines of Armslist or berettaforum.net.

Best, Jon

[StraitR]

Watch our firearms FSOT section (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?34-Firearms). I have TWO that I plan on posting there soon™.

9883

[farscott]

After the business trip that seemed to never end, I finally picked up the 92D I purchased in the middle of July. Great pistol with a great trigger.

The night sights are from 2004 per the Trijicon markings. There is still luminescence and the sights are pretty good in daylight. I need to rethink my plan to insert a fiber-optic filament in the front sight. I may go ahead just to get the experience. I need to ask Trijicon if I ship them the old night sight insert will they ship me a new insert.

[Clobbersaurus]

I just sent my D and Centurion clone slides out for FO inserts. If the tritium wasn't dead I would have kept it. I didn't mind the white outline/Tritium insert. I had to clean it after every few hundred rounds to keep the white nice and bright but it offered a good sight picture. I blacked out the rear with a sharpie. I'm switching to FO primarily to have it more closely resemble my competition gun (Elite II).

[farscott]

May I ask who is doing the work on the slides and the approximate cost? Which diameter fiber optic insert are you using?

[Clobbersaurus]

May I ask who is doing the work on the slides and the approximate cost? Which diameter fiber optic insert are you using?

I am using a gun smith here in Canada, Murray Charlton. I'm not sure which FO size he will go with, I tried the spare that came with my Daweson Brig sight and it fit the hole in the bore end of the front sight of my D perfectly. I'm not sure what that width is. He will have to figure out what to do about the white insert at the front of the sight and will likely have to do a large bulb like Wilson. I honestly don't really care how large the bulb is as long as I can see the edges of the front sight on either side. I think that definition is important.

The other slide he will have to drill, as it is stainless with no insert. I also asked him to blacken the front sight of the stainless slide. The price I was quated was about $75 for each slide, but of course that is just a quote.

[The Apprentice]

Quick question out of curiosity is the trigger pull any shorter on the D models or is it just a smoother pull than a standard model.

[HCM]

Quick question out of curiosity is the trigger pull any shorter on the D models or is it just a smoother pull than a standard model.

Just smoother and lighter. The D has a lighter main spring and a hammer without an SA cocking notch.

[farscott]

Part of the difference in trigger feel is that the 92D lacks the sear, the sear spring, and a sear retention pin of the 92F. Adding those parts and a regular hammer to the 92D converts the gun to a 92F. Conversely removing those three parts from a 92F and adding the spurless hammer without the single-action sear notch creates the 92D action.

Of course, the proper slide is needed for the proper functioning. A 92F slide can be used with a 92D action, but the converse would be a really bad idea as there is no way to de-cock the gun without the trigger. .

[The Apprentice]

Thanks thats kind of what I figured just wasnt sure if the lack of the sear and different hammer effected lenght of pull.

[ReverendMeat]

I was at a gun/liquor store (I love Oregon!) and spotted a 92d centurion in decent condition. Asking price was 475, is this a good deal or should I pass?

[farscott]

I was at a gun/liquor store (I love Oregon!) and spotted a 92d centurion in decent condition. Asking price was 475, is this a good deal or should I pass?

I think that is a good price for a pistol that is rare in two ways, Centurion and D in 9x19. If the sights are Trijicon, it is an even better price.

[JonInWA]

I think it's a fair, but not great price. If you want a Centurion, I'd jump all over it without regrets.

Best, Jon

[Welder]

I think it's a fair, but not great price.

Agree. I just got one off GB that's pretty close to new condition, not police issue, and it was $450. That was probably somewhere near the top of it's current worth, although I feel these are a little undervalued right now.

[LockedBreech]

I'd jump on a Centurion for $450. Further, if it's in good shape (particularly finish) I'd make a conditional commitment to buy/trade you for it if you ended up not liking it. See signature line. I don't have a Cent yet.

[ReverendMeat]

Well, I talked them down to 450 and threw my Sig SP2022 at it. LockedBreech, I might take you up on that offer later but so far I like how it balances, how much faster it is out of the holster than my fullsize 92, and how there's no safety to pinch me when I reholster. I don't like the incredibly distinct false reset though. We'll see how it shoots.

[LockedBreech]

Well, I talked them down to 450 and threw my Sig SP2022 at it. LockedBreech, I might take you up on that offer later but so far I like how it balances, how much faster it is out of the holster than my fullsize 92, and how there's no safety to pinch me when I reholster. I don't like the incredibly distinct false reset though. We'll see how it shoots.

No rush. I'll die under a pile of Berettas. 92FS Compact currently on order.

[The Apprentice]

No rush. I'll die under a pile of Berettas. 92FS Compact currently on order.

Not a bad way to go

[OlongJohnson]

On frame/slide swaps:
My understanding is that if I ever shoot my 96D police trade-in enough to crack the straight dust cover frame, I should be able to do a parts swap onto any newer 96 frame. So either find someone selling stripped frames for cheap and put one away, or just don't worry about crossing that bridge until I reach it are both good options. No real sense in buying another complete pistol just to have a backup.

Any other thoughts?

[Clobbersaurus]

I always thought that Beretta 92/96 cracked frames were like an old wives tale, told on dark nights by Glock owners.

I've never actually seen one. Even a quick google search gets you lots of old wives tales but not much substance. I say shoot the bejesus out of your 96 and worry about it only if it happens.

[Welder]

On the D topic, if you want to see what a D trigger pull feels like in your non-D frame, just pop the sear pin, sear, and sear spring out of it. Obviously have the D spring in it, too. Your regular spurred hammer will work fine. I know all this because I did it yesterday. Don't ask me which way the sear spring goes back in because I didn't pay attention - this one isn't going back in. :)

Show and tell to follow whenever I can round up my missing D hammer and whatever the correct rear sight height is for the compact slide in 9mm.

[OlongJohnson]

Your regular spurred hammer will work fine.

Until someone who doesn't know what you did tries to thumb it into SA mode on a live round...

[Welder]

Until someone who doesn't know what you did tries to thumb it into SA mode on a live round...

Well if we want to play what if, then we should also remember the firing pin block would be in place at that point. It would have the same effect as hitting the decocker on the G model.

ETA this would also give us an excuse to tell them that only ninnies thumb-cock a DA/SA gun for the first shot. :p

[Welder]

.....

[Welder]

OK, OK, OK!!!!!! You're right, I forgot about that part. :p

In the interest of giving out full information on a public forum, maybe I should amend my post to read:


On the D topic, if you want to see what a D trigger pull feels like in your non-D frame, just pop the sear pin, sear, and sear spring out of it. Obviously have the D spring in it, too. Your regular spurred hammer will work fine but if you then leave your pistol that way which is not what this post is trying to suggest you do, and you have friends who believe in thumb-cocking an SA/DA pistol for the first shot because they don't know how to shoot a DA trigger and are too afraid to learn, you might have a problem if they try to thumb-cock it but then drop the hammer unintentionally since there's no sear. If your firing pin block is also not working and stuck in the "up" position which I have never seen but is within the realm of possibility, then you will have a bullet going somewhere you don't want it to if they're also not pointing in a safe direction. So I hope you understand that the whole point of this post is to help those who ask how a D trigger feels, be able to test one out TEMPORARILY in their existing gun.

If they like the feel of the D trigger and wanted to keep it that way they could then either buy a D hammer or cut the spur off their non-D hammer. They would then have a DS model if the original was an F or FS. Obviously the levers on a G slide never acted as safeties on the original and would not act as safeties on a converted gun; thus, they would only be vestigial appendages on a pistol so modified.

If this is confusing to you in any way, do not modify your pistol but rather go out and buy a D. If you are too lazy to either put the sear back in your DA/SA pistol with spurred hammer or cut the spur off the hammer once you're done with this test, do not modify your pistol but rather go out and buy a D. Furthermore I've never de-spurred (get it?) a Beretta hammer and have no idea if it will still have enough mass to reliably bust primers once the spur is cut off. I would imagine it will but ultimately that is something you'll have to figure out for yourself along with other important things like why you're wasting your life by still reading this post when it's obvious I'm just typing stuff here to make it longer and seem more informational than it really is. :p

Oh yeah, sorry about the low information in the original post - I sometimes forget that people can't read my mind and what's obvious to me is not obvious to others. :)

[HCM]

On frame/slide swaps:
My understanding is that if I ever shoot my 96D police trade-in enough to crack the straight dust cover frame, I should be able to do a parts swap onto any newer 96 frame. So either find someone selling stripped frames for cheap and put one away, or just don't worry about crossing that bridge until I reach it are both good options. No real sense in buying another complete pistol just to have a backup.

Any other thoughts?

You will break lots of other stuff before you crack the frame, locking blocks, extractors, trigger return springs, slide stops .....

unless you are trying to stay "factory" for gun games, you can drop a 9mm barrel into your 96D and it will be just fine for range purposes. The .40 mags will hold and function with 13 or 14 rounds of 9mm. Save the .40 barrel for ammo droughts.

A complete 9mm slide will fit and function on your 96D frame as well.

[ReverendMeat]

Cendurion D update: Shot it today (alongside my 92G and a friend's M9A3 and Brig Tac), LockedBreech I'm afraid I'm gonna be keeping this one. I LOVE this gun. Never tried shooting a handgun at 75 yards before but I was making hits-with a DAO pistol no less (unpossible!) I have decided that I will die under a pile of Berettas as well.

[Joe in PNG]

Likewise.

[LockedBreech]

Cendurion D update: Shot it today (alongside my 92G and a friend's M9A3 and Brig Tac), LockedBreech I'm afraid I'm gonna be keeping this one. I LOVE this gun. Never tried shooting a handgun at 75 yards before but I was making hits-with a DAO pistol no less (unpossible!) I have decided that I will die under a pile of Berettas as well.

I was all ready to be butthurt, but another Beretta fan means more money for Beretta which means more new and cool designs along the Wilson and Langdon lines. So by all means, love it! :D

[JonInWA]

Considering how the 92D production run ran from only 1992 - 1998 (outside, I'm sure, of possibly some organizational orders/replacements), it's pretty interesting how a 18 - 24 year old platform has not only withstood the tests of time/durability/reliability/conceptually, but is continuing to viably come into its own with more than one or two of us here and otherwise...especially in light of some very credible current production options.

And especially on a board whose membership is oriented to using, and some of us heavily using our pistols of choice for duty, competition, carry, etc. While most of us can certainly admire a classic gun, we tend to be pretty hard-nosed about drawing the line between admiration and credible use if the necessary qualities aren't present. The 92D/92D Centurions seem to have crossed that Rubicon with both ease and an element of grace.

If this keeps up, we'll doubtlessly see Tamara and Nyeti getting one for themselves...THAT will be somewhat of a PF litmus test of sorts....

Best, Jon

[farscott]

As a former S&W DAO user and a current LEM user, I missed the 92D when it was in production. I am not sure why, but it probably was "too big for the caliber", especially with my small hands. Of course, the fact that I have never seen a 92D in a gun shop before I transferred the one I bought from a Beretta Forum member did not help.

With the renaissance of the 92-series brought about by the WC, M9A3, and the EL specials, I finally rectified my error. I added the WC "ultra thin" grips and steel guide rod, and I have a shooter. I have been shooting it at my gongs anywhere from 20 to 60 yards away and hitting with regularity.

[JonInWA]

I think that there were two factors that really constrained 92D sales during its production cycle: First, 5 of its 7 years of production were during the Assault Weapons Bill's timeframe, subjecting the gun to an inherent magazine capacity restriction of 10 round magazines in a weapon whose frame was designed for 15 round magazines, and Second, it was on its face as a DAO action reputedly a bit more challenging to shoot than a DA/SA or a striker-fired gun. Essentially, I think it was perceived through most of its production cycle as an institutional gun that was significantly neutered by those restricted to 10 round magazines, and while at the same time seen as being more difficult to shoot than its competitors-as well as being bigger and heavier than it's 10-round magazine capacity justified.

Without being privy to any actual sales figures, I suspect that the vast majority of 92D production was to institutional/LEO's, where administrators were placated by the DAO action-essentially, for most practical purposes, I think the D guns were viewed as being in effect a semi-automatic revolver, which really isn't a bad analogy.

While it was a commercially available SKU during most of its production cycle, I think that most current users probably became acquainted with it as it was cycled through or surplussed out of LEO inventories. While my personal 92D was obtained brand new in box around 2006 as I recall, is was out of a wholesaler who had stripped out the 15 round magazines it originally came with and replaced with the 10 rounders required during the ban period (and I'm sure the wholesaler realized an immense profit from the OEM 15 rounders, justifying their separation from the gun-given the concurrent low demand for D-series pistols, it's not like there were prospective buyers lined up at retail sales counters to complain about it. It languished for years in a warehouse, eventually being provided to a retailer-quite possibly as a deal sweetener of some sort. I traded a Walther P5C for it, getting it along with with several new 15 round Beretta MDS magazines and a set of grips-the gunshop was happy, and I was happy.

The Beretta D DAO is an exceptionally nice action, providing a very smooth and clean-breaking triggerpull. It does have a long reset, however, which probably places it technically behind in triggerpull merit to current DAO actions, such as HK's light LEM. Basically, as I've mentioned before, it's like a tuned classic Smith & Wesson revolver's triggerpull and reset-without any additional gunsmith tuning needed. When acclimated, it's very capable of quick, accurate and decisive shooting-especially at close to medium ranges. Longer distance, and single-handed shooting is more of a developed skill, in my opinion.

To those willing to put in the time to master it, as evidenced by this and other PF threads, a 92D is a very viable gun and defensive pistol. Ironically, now in it's post-production timeframe it may well be getting into it's prime. As Farscott mentioned, it's also been a derivative beneficiary of a trickle-down effect from the current Wilson Custom, M9A3 and Langdon Specials-and resurrected BUSA 92 model productions.

Best, Jon

[Ob1sbo]

I think that there were two factors that really constrained 92D sales during its production cycle: First, 5 of its 7 years of production were during the Assault Weapons Bill's timeframe, subjecting the gun to an inherent magazine capacity restriction of 10 round magazines in a weapon whose frame was designed for 15 round magazines, and Second, it was on its face as a DAO action reputedly a bit more challenging to shoot than a DA/SA or a striker-fired gun. Essentially, I think it was perceived through most of its production cycle as an institutional gun that was significantly neutered by those restricted to 10 round magazines, and while at the same time seen as being more difficult to shoot than its competitors-as well as being bigger and heavier than it's 10-round magazine capacity justified.

Without being privy to any actual sales figures, I suspect that the vast majority of 92D production was to institutional/LEO's, where administrators were placated by the DAO action-essentially, for most practical purposes, I think the D guns were viewed as being in effect a semi-automatic revolver, which really isn't a bad analogy.

While it was a commercially available SKU during most of its production cycle, I think that most current users probably became acquainted with it as it was cycled through or surplussed out of LEO inventories. While my personal 92D was obtained brand new in box around 2006 as I recall, is was out of a wholesaler who had stripped out the 15 round magazines it originally came with and replaced with the 10 rounders required during the ban period (and I'm sure the wholesaler realized an immense profit from the OEM 15 rounders, justifying their separation from the gun-given the concurrent low demand for D-series pistols, it's not like there were prospective buyers lined up at retail sales counters to complain about it. It languished for years in a warehouse, eventually being provided to a retailer-quite possibly as a deal sweetener of some sort. I traded a Walther P5C for it, getting it along with with several new 15 round Beretta MDS magazines and a set of grips-the gunshop was happy, and I was happy.

The Beretta D DAO is an exceptionally nice action, providing a very smooth and clean-breaking triggerpull. It does have a long reset, however, which probably places it technically behind in triggerpull merit to current DAO actions, such as HK's light LEM. Basically, as I've mentioned before, it's like a tuned classic Smith & Wesson revolver's triggerpull and reset-without any additional gunsmith tuning needed. When acclimated, it's very capable of quick, accurate and decisive shooting-especially at close to medium ranges. Longer distance, and single-handed shooting is more of a developed skill, in my opinion.

To those willing to put in the time to master it, as evidenced by this and other PF threads, a 92D is a very viable gun and defensive pistol. Ironically, now in it's post-production timeframe it may well be getting into it's prime. As Farscott mentioned, it's also been a derivative beneficiary of a trickle-down effect from the current Wilson Custom, M9A3 and Langdon Specials-and resurrected BUSA 92 model productions.

Best, Jon

You sir... Should write speeches... Detailed, informative and super easy to follow.

[HCM]

I think that there were two factors that really constrained 92D sales during its production cycle: First, 5 of its 7 years of production were during the Assault Weapons Bill's timeframe, subjecting the gun to an inherent magazine capacity restriction of 10 round magazines in a weapon whose frame was designed for 15 round magazines, and Second, it was on its face as a DAO action reputedly a bit more challenging to shoot than a DA/SA or a striker-fired gun. Essentially, I think it was perceived through most of its production cycle as an institutional gun that was significantly neutered by those restricted to 10 round magazines, and while at the same time seen as being more difficult to shoot than its competitors-as well as being bigger and heavier than it's 10-round magazine capacity justified.

Without being privy to any actual sales figures, I suspect that the vast majority of 92D production was to institutional/LEO's, where administrators were placated by the DAO action-essentially, for most practical purposes, I think the D guns were viewed as being in effect a semi-automatic revolver, which really isn't a bad analogy.

Best, Jon

The AWB and 92D production also coincided with the rise of the .40 cal. There seem to be many more 96D models in circulation than 92D models which is unfortunate because the Beretta is great 9mm but a poor choice for the .40.

[JonInWA]

The AWB and 92D production also coincided with the rise of the .40 cal. There seem to be many more 96D models in circulation than 92D models which is unfortunate because the Beretta is great 9mm but a poor choice for the .40.

Excellent point. The .40 cartridge was definitely ascendant during that timeframe, and a 96 was easily viewed as coming to the table with a more powerful and effective caliber, and doing so in the same envelope as the 92-so users perceived that if they were restricted to 10 round magazines, they'd be better off with 10+1 rounds of .40 than 9mm in the same platform.

Of course, we've subsequently realized that .40 with it's quicker, more aggressive pressure spike can be both more difficult to control, and concurrently accelerates wear on the platforms using it, particularly in platforms designed for 9mm and re-chambered for .40 without significant platform structural upgrading to counter-act the damaging impact of the .40 on the gun.

And current cartridge advances applied to 9mm cartridges have really leveled the playing field-while the .40 is certainly a viable and credible cartridge in its own right (after all, similar cartridge advances were concurrently applied to it), users can now utilize a 9mm platform which is likely more durable, easier on its users (and their guns), accurate, and carrying equally effective cartridges-and more of them, at a lower cost.

Vis-a-vis our current discussion, while I don't consider a 96D to be a "bad" gun/choice, users are likely to encounter an inherently more limited lifespan with a higher frequency of parts replacement necessary throughout that more limited lifespan. And in .40, the 96D will be comparatively harder to control and/or shoot at speed.

For those desiring (or needing/mandated) a .40 Beretta platform, in my opinion the currently available 96 A1 makes more sense, as it possesses specific frame strengthening/upgrades for greater platform durability and longevity with .40 use. http://www.beretta.com/en/96-a1/

However, for those of us having a 92D/92D Centurion, we get to reap the benefits of the improved 9mm cartridges in a more than sufficiently durable platform, capable of utilizing it's 15 round (or larger) magazines-along with the inherently slightly stronger 92D slide (due to no safety lever cut-outs) and superb 92D action and triggerpulls.

Best, Jon

[Clobbersaurus]

I just received my slide back from the shop where I had the front sight machined and a FO rod installed. I think it turned out great! I like that they left the top milled opening "in the white" as it gathers more light. The FO is very bright and quite large, which is perfect for what the gun was designed for.

http://i.imgur.com/frmQX03.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OVVlHYk.jpg

[OlongJohnson]

Try painting that cavity white - it should gather even more light, and it needs something more than just oil to protect it from rusting.

[Chuck Whitlock]

....5 of its 7 years of production were during the Assault Weapons Bill's timeframe, subjecting the gun to an inherent magazine capacity restriction of 10 round magazines in a weapon whose frame was designed for 15 round magazines,....


The AWB and 92D production also coincided with the rise of the .40 cal. There seem to be many more 96D models in circulation than 92D models which is unfortunate because the Beretta is great 9mm but a poor choice for the .40.


Excellent point. The .40 cartridge was definitely ascendant during that timeframe, and a 96 was easily viewed as coming to the table with a more powerful and effective caliber, and doing so in the same envelope as the 92-so users perceived that if they were restricted to 10 round magazines, they'd be better off with 10+1 rounds of .40 than 9mm in the same platform.

These were the exact reasons I bought a 96D Centurion......a whole lot easier to swallow giving up 1 round of capacity instead of 5.

[Clobbersaurus]

Try painting that cavity white - it should gather even more light, and it needs something more than just oil to protect it from rusting.

I'm not too worried about corrosion. I've never had a problem with corrosion (despite living on the rainy west coast) since I started protecting my guns with G96 over a decade ago. I will watch it closely, but I would be shocked if it started to cause me any problems.