Sub Compact

[breakingtime91]

Hey all, trying to decide on something. I am curious how many carry a compact (such as m&p/p2000sk) and how much of an concealment advantage you see when compared to something like a g19/p2000. I am asking this because i am trying to see if its worth getting a p2000sk for warmer weather or if the p2000 and it are close enough that it won't really give me much advantage. After talking to Jody, I am leaning towards picking one up, just curious.




ps. I carry appendix

[Nephrology]

Hey all, trying to decide on something. I am curious how many carry a compact (such as m&p/p2000sk) and how much of an concealment advantage you see when compared to something like a g19/p2000. I am asking this because i am trying to see if its worth getting a p2000sk for warmer weather or if the p2000 and it are close enough that it won't really give me much advantage. After talking to Jody, I am leaning towards picking one up, just curious.

Do you carry AIWB? If so, I do think there is an advantage. I carry a G19 and a G26 or M&P Shield. I probably spend ~60% of the year carrying the G19 and 40% of the year carrying the 26 or shield. I find the big advantage to be primarily in the way the gun prints/can print and it crosses laterally across your body.The grip thickness is the same of course but I give the butt of the gun a little more clearance so it is less likely to print as my torso moves left/right. The width of the pistol doesn't cause printing as much in the context of AIWB (in my opinion) because with a shoulders (slightly) forward, the "tenting" you do over the forward/backward axis of the gun tends to conceal it pretty uniformly no matter what. Not sure if that made sense.... let me know if you want me to elucidate.

for reference, I am 5'10 and 170lb so slimmer but not exactly skinny either.

[WDW]

There's definitely an advantage to concealment, but you give up capacity & shootability. Always good to have a smaller option on hand though.

[YVK]

For the pistols that you've mentioned, I find next to zero advantage. Whatever the dimensions are, if I have to dress around it in exactly the same clothes that I have to use for P2000 or P30, then what's the point. My 2KSK is sitting in the safe waiting for me to figure out what role I can find for it these day.

P.S. There is truth to what Nephrology says in regards to lateral extension across the body. SecondsCount easily conceals p2000 but a little extra grip of P30 sticks out to his side, so for some people the grip length matters. For me it is a lesser issue than thickness. Glock 43 does disappear, 2KSK doesn't.

[CCT125US]

I have an Sk LEM that occasionally is worn in a Smart Carry. I find the shootability very similar to the P2K. I can place two rounds into a 3" circle at 7yds in 2 seconds from AIWB about 80% of the time. It is close enough that I am hesitant to pick up a spare P2000. It obviously works in the holsters for the .45C, P30, and P2000. Parts compatibility is very high and takes the same sights. I am happy with it and it does have a place for me. Seated in a vehicle, slight favor goes to the Sk as the shorter barrel length clears the holster with less upward movement and the grip is less hindered by the shoulder belt and shirt position. For reference I am 5' tall and have 28" waist, so for me in certain situations it works well. For example, I will carry it over anything else OWB under a suit jacket because the upward draw stroke takes less range of motion. Drawing a P30 or P2000 requires a greater percentage of my upward arm motion than the Sk. Again, not an issue for everyone as my torso is short. It can also be stored in a slightly smaller space if that is a factor.

[ubervic]

My first 'real' pistol was an HK P200oSK LEM. I selected it because it seemed to me to be highly concealable. I carried it at 4 o'clock and shot it OK, but not great.

My next pistol was the HK P30 LEM. I carried it at 4 o'clock and shot it only moderately OK

My next pistol was a used and tired M&P9FS. I learned to carry it AIWB and shot it well.

My next pistol was (is) Sig Sauer SP2022.

Along my journey, I discovered that general shootability and confidence increases with pistol size (for me) while concealability diminishes only incrementally, if at all, depending on one's carry mode and determination. And I do not miss subcompacts one bit.

[Clay]

If you carry in NPE's on a regular basis, or prefer really deep concealment, then there is definitely an advantage. I carry a Shield, LCP, and G26 more than anything-mainly in a Smartcarry or appendix holster. For times when I need to wear certain clothes, or when I will be indoors sitting all day in a NPE, I carry a S&W 442 in an ankle rig.

Options are a good thing.

I can hide a Beretta 92, in a good appendix or regular IWB holster, from 95% of the people I encounter - it's the 5% that can get me into trouble.

If NPE's or deep concealment are not an issue - then bigger is better, IMO.

[ranger]

I carry a M&P9FS in IWB on side. If I need something even more concealable, I carry a Shield 9mm IWB.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Over the years I've owned and carried full size/subcompact combos from M&P, Glock 19/26, and P2000/P2000SK. I don't really think that the M&Pc fits into the subcompact category the way that the P2000SK/G26 do. For me I've noticed enough of a difference to justify having both guns. Particularly with the P2000/2000SK combo, the difference isn't great, but the difference is noticeable enough (think of the difference between a G17 and a G19--it's not huge on paper, but there's definitely a difference when you try to carry and conceal it).

Also, the different recoil spring in the P2000SK makes it shoot as well, if not a little better than the full size gun. As long as you're running the flat floor plates, you can't go wrong with this little gun.

[GAP]

It depends on how you dress. The minor differences or "no difference at all," answers are from the crowd of people who drape an XL shirt or a ridiculous looking vest over them. Subcompacts have a noticeable difference if you wear clothes that fit. If you already have a closet full of clothes you use to dress around your current primary then there probably isn't a point.

[Guinnessman]

In the past I have carried both the M&Pc and P2000SK. The only downside to carrying this size of pistol is the width. While this size of gun helped me carry AIWB, it was not the end all be all solution, as I still had to dress around the gun. In the summer months if I am wearing a T-shirt, most likely I am carrying my J-frame. My thicker, dark color, XL T-Shirts help me conceal my P30 in the summer months. If the T-shirt is a lighter color, and it has become a victim of shrinkage, then it becomes J-frame carry material, because I am too cheap to keep buying clothes. Anyways, that's my two cents.

[YVK]

It depends on how you dress. The minor differences or "no difference at all," answers are from the crowd of people who drape an XL shirt or a ridiculous looking vest over them. Subcompacts have a noticeable difference if you wear clothes that fit.

My main criticism of P2000SK is that I can't wear the clothes that fit. As I said above, I have to wear the same clothes as with bigger guns.

[ssb]

With my dress there's minimal difference between a G26 and a G19 in my Keeper. In warm weather I generally wear either well-fitted polo and t-shirts or untucked button-down shirts.

However, comma, a single-stack gun like a PPS -- even with the 7rd mag (which makes the gun effectively G19 height) -- there is a difference. It's definitely the width of the gun. On my frame, less drape of the shirt is needed to maintain concealment when moving around and such.

[GAP]

My main criticism of P2000SK is that I can't wear the clothes that fit. As I said above, I have to wear the same clothes as with bigger guns.

Interesting I could see it being more of an issue behind the hip than appendix. For appendix having a broad chest also helps considerably.

[psalms144.1]

For ME, the subcompact is a BUG, primarily an ankle gun. In that mode, it fills the niche for an "around the house" gun without having to wear a duty belt (kidding), but, it lets me have a "real" pistol on me while I'm lounging in pajama pants or jeans with no belt. It also fills the bill for when I have to wear a suit (going to court, for instance) and don't want to wear my suit jacket all day - a G26 on the ankle with a G19 magazine in my front pocket to reload is a lot more comforting than a J-frame or PM9 in my pocket. Lastly, my G26 conceals better under an untucked UnderArmour T-shirt or polo shirt than the G19, but a long stretch.

In cooler months, when I wear a "ridiculous looking" soft shell vest most of the time (just like 80% of the ridiculous looking people on the street here), there's obviously no advantage - hence the reason my G19 is my primary pistol.

WRT shootability, except for reloads, I find my G26 is just about dead even with my G19. I might slow down a bit on longer distance shots, but I still handily clean our qualification course with either - including shots out to 25 yards. Up close, running timed accuracy drills (like five shots for time at a 5" circle at 5 yards), the G26 performs every bit as well as the G19.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I haven't found that a 26 carries any better than a 19, however what I have found is that a walther PPS carries significantly better than a G19. I look at the PPS as basically what the G43 should have been. The width is what makes the biggest difference for me. I'm skinny though with a big chest so I have a fairly generous space around my waist to hide a gun.

That being said, I will always pick shootability over concealability. I would never carry a gun that was obvious but I won't obsess over that ever so slightly bulge in my shirt when I move just right or the wind blows the right way.




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[Kyle Reese]

My main criticism of P2000SK is that I can't wear the clothes that fit. As I said above, I have to wear the same clothes as with bigger guns.

This is one of the main "gripes" that I had against the Glock 26. Excellent concept, but in practice if I have to dress around the gun I'm just going to carry a full sized service handgun.

[GAP]

If printing is visible (bending certain ways) the G26 looks like a square, the G19 looks like a gun, in my opinion.

[Beat Trash]

This is a hard question to answer on the internet. A lot of consideration has to be given to a person's build, lifestyle and dress. The guy who is 5' tall with a 28" waist is going to have different limitations than the guy who is 6' tall with a 48" waist.

I have used a M&P9c as an off-duty gun for a few years. In my mind, it's just enough too big to be considered a compact. It's S&W's answer to the Glock 19. But it's too small to fill the roll of the Glock 19, and too big to fill the roll of the Glock 26. I finally gave up on it and went back to the Glock 19 as my off-duty gun. I use a Shield as my BUG while at work, and it works as my slim gun when the Glock 19 is too big. But I am looking at getting a Glock 26 in the near future.

Yes, you can wear a 5.11 vest in August or a shirt that is two sizes too big and conceal a full size gun. But for those of us who actually dress like a grownup, options in gun sizes are a good thing. For reference, I am 5'11",with a 47" chest and a 32" waist. I can wear cloths and get away with more gun than my 5'4" tall, 114 lb wife can.

For me, the difference is the grip length. When the Glock 19 is just too much and prints, I could get by with a Glock 26. I can definitely get by with the Shield. Whereas my wife definitely dresses like a grownup. For her, the Glock 43 is her carry gun, and a Glock 42 is her smaller gun. Her build dictates a slim gun to effectively conceal with her build and manner of dress. So for her, thickness of the gun is more of a factor than it is for me.

I think this is why you are seeing some responding that they can carry a Glock 26 better than a Glock 19, and some saying it offers no real advantage to them. You just have to play around with it to see if it works for you.

To the OP, if I carried a HK P2000, then I would try to borrow a P2000sk for a couple of minutes. See if a store would let you stick an sk in your holster. Then stand, sit bend walk and have the store employee look to see how it conceals for you. If the sk offers no real advantage, then I would look at a PPS. I owned a PPS at one time. One of the few guns that I regret selling.

[breakingtime91]

This is one of the main "gripes" that I had against the Glock 26. Excellent concept, but in practice if I have to dress around the gun I'm just going to carry a full sized service handgun.

interesting..I really like my wife's shield, especially with the right holster, it just disappears. got some stuff to think about..

[psalms144.1]

interesting..I really like my wife's shield, especially with the right holster, it just disappears. got some stuff to think about..Wait, wait, wait. Didn't you JUST give up the G19 to go to the P2000 for safety concerns about AIWB with a striker (a decision I DO NOT fault - let me say that up front). IIRC, the Shield is SF, no?

If you're looking for something SMALL to use for "dress up," you might want to look at the PM9. It's much smaller than the Shield, and the trigger, while striker fired, is much more reminiscent of the LEM - a light DAO feel with a longish reset. I'm NOT a fan of mixing trigger type/feel... Of course, with ANY single stack subcompact 9mm, you're going to give up a lot in shootability AND capacity.

[breakingtime91]

Wait, wait, wait. Didn't you JUST give up the G19 to go to the P2000 for safety concerns about AIWB with a striker (a decision I DO NOT fault - let me say that up front). IIRC, the Shield is SF, no?

If you're looking for something SMALL to use for "dress up," you might want to look at the PM9. It's much smaller than the Shield, and the trigger, while striker fired, is much more reminiscent of the LEM - a light DAO feel with a longish reset. I'm NOT a fan of mixing trigger type/feel... Of course, with ANY single stack subcompact 9mm, you're going to give up a lot in shootability AND capacity.

yes... I stopped carrying the shield. Also shield has a safety so, ya...? If hk made a single stack 9 that was lem.. I would be all over it.

[psalms144.1]

Aha. A shield with a safety. Got it. Belay my last and carry on sharply!

[breakingtime91]

Aha. A shield with a safety. Got it. Belay my last and carry on sharply!

I would but my wife has claimed it :eek:

[Cecil Burch]

I have found for me that there is a small, but very noticeable difference in concealment between the P2000 and the sk. Carried in the same holster in the same position, I could get by with lighter, tighter t-shirts and still conceal the sk where the regular gun would have been problematic.

It is a very personal thing, so it may not be true for the OP, but it certainly was worthwhile for me to go to the sk.

And I still have my PPS for when I need that next little bit of an edge for concealment.

[breakingtime91]

I have found for me that there is a small, but very noticeable difference in concealment between the P2000 and the sk. Carried in the same holster in the same position, I could get by with lighter, tighter t-shirts and still conceal the sk where the regular gun would have been problematic.

It is a very personal thing, so it may not be true for the OP, but it certainly was worthwhile for me to go to the sk.

And I still have my PPS for when I need that next little bit of an edge for concealment.

nice. I was thinking p2000/p2000sk/ j frame

[psalms144.1]

nice. I was thinking p2000/p2000sk/ j frameThat would be my suggestion - though for me the J-frame would only be used for the EXTREMELY rare pocket carry only prospect.

Though I do wish my agency authorized Walthers - as well regarded as the PPS is, I'd love to pick one up to play with...

[GAP]

I would but my wife has claimed it :eek:

Then maybe consider buying a second one to carry so both you and your wife would have access to the same mags if necessary.

[Beat Trash]

Then maybe consider buying a second one to carry so both you and your wife would have access to the same mags if necessary.


This...

Especially when you both are away on vacation somewhere. Being able to use the same magazines simplifies packing for the trip significantly.