Help me upgrade my new 92A1

[StraitR]

I've been reading and re-reading for a week (Beretta mega thread and others here) about upgrades as they pertain to the 92 family and have caught the bug. Through some horse trading with my boss, I'm acquiring an unfired Beretta 92A1 (and HKP30L). I cut my teeth in the 90's with 1911's up until 2004ish and have been a Glock guy for almost a decade, although I played around with a Wilson CQBE for 2014 and an HK VP9 for the better part of 2015.

The idea is to make this an HD and fun gun. Due to hand size and prior injury to trigger finger, I'm definitely interested in springs, short triggers, and thin grips to help with DA trigger pulls at a minimum. Aside from being 12 when Die hard and Lethal Weapon came out and instantly infatuated with Beretta's, I was never inspired to buy one once of age. My military time, mid-90's, in the Navy had me carrying a SA 1911 for SAT/BAF as well as deck watches, and the M9 I had as an 11b in the Army reserve was never shot (not even once). That's my Beretta experience.

So, I'd really like to know what your "must have" options are and why. I don't mind spending a few hundred on parts, but we're expecting our second child (a boy this time - YES!) so I'm not looking to send it off for $800 worth of custom work.

Much appreciated.

[5pins]

Most people here will say “buy a bunch of ammo and shoot it before you change anything”. Or something to that effect. I’m going to say buy a “D” spring and oversized mag catch. IMHO both should come standard on the 92’s/M9’s.

[Sigfan26]

-18# hammer spring (Wilson)
-Wilson Ultrathin Grips
-G Conversion
-X300U (or X400U if you prefer)
The thin grips negate the need for short trigger (for me, at least).
That's all I did to the 92G I carry (minus the Surefire and the G conversion since mine was already a G)

[Sigfan26]

And shoot the hell out of it!

[ReverendMeat]

On my 92G: Factory oversized magazine release (absolutely necessary for me), factory steel trigger and D spring combo. All from BUSA's web store. Then a set of VZ golfball pattern grips. I haven't done anything with the sights yet though I probably will eventually.

[Jared]

Elite II hammer is a big one for me. I think, but can't prove, that it works a bit better with lighter springs.

Definitely, at least, a Beretta D spring. Some prefer the Wilson 16# chrome silicon spring. I've just started experimenting with a Wilson 14# spring. It works great so far, and is noticeably lighter than the Beretta D spring.

Some kind of oversized mag release. I like the Elite II, which is still a button, for carry. For a straight up competition gun, I prefer the one with the large square pad.

Finally, and this is a luxury item purely, BerettaUSA is selling Elite II barrels on their web store. I like it for a couple reasons. First, its 4.7", so it don't have that extra bit sticking out. Second, I like the stainless look. Third, I've noticed slightly less residue in the stainless barrels than the standard chrome lined one, when shooting cast bullets, which I do a lot of.

The M9A1 I was shooting Sunday had an E2 hammer, E2 mag release, E2 barrel, and a Wilson 14# chrome silicon spring. About the only other thing I might do to it is swap in the Wilson low profile single sided safety. If I decide to carry it, I probably will. Well, that and I have a spare steel trigger that will probably go in there too.

[Jared]

And then shoot it until you burn the Bruniton finish off of it

[JSGlock34]

First, buy a bunch of Mec-Gar 18 round magazines (or the 'OEM' version of the same magazine). Here's a link at CDNN (http://www.cdnnsports.com/magazines/beretta-92-18rd-9mm-anti-friction-magazine.html#.Vi7XyniLGng)...with the holidays coming I'd bet they'll go on sale again (they were under $17 a few weeks ago).

I agree with changing to a 'D' spring or one of the lower powered Wilson springs. However, if you can install it or know someone qualified, I highly recommend the Wilson Combat Ultimate Action Tune Kit (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Ultimate-Action-Tune-Kit-Beretta-90-Series/productinfo/748/). It comes with the Wilson trigger bar and a bunch of trigger springs. This is the best thing you can do to the Beretta trigger.

I prefer a 'G' operating system, but now we're talking more significant surgery.

[StraitR]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I've never been much of a tinkerer with pistols, AR's yes, pistols no. I change sights (usually 10-8 if they're offered) on previous Glocks

-Putting together an initial Wilson order, so I'll pick up a 14 and 16# hammer spring and try both. Also getting the short trigger and required trigger conversion kit (standard power) as well as thin grips to shorten the LOP. I can't bend my trigger finger at the first knuckle (tendon damage) so shortest LOP possible and light(er) DA is preferable.

-I've considered the Wilson Ultimate Action Tune Kit, but I think I'll wait a bit and see how much I'll like the pistol with 14/16# springs + trigger first.

-The Wilson oversized mag catch that I like is out of stock, so I'll play with the standard for now.

-Thanks for the heads up on the mags, they're on the list, so I'll certainly keep an eye out.

-Got the X300 covered.

-Checked out the Elite hammer, looks freaking cool, but not sure if there's a benefit for me just yet.

-Any benefit to changing from the plastic captured RSA to the Wilson steel fluted? Anyone try the flatwire kit?

If I take to the Beretta, I'll more than likely send it in for the G conversion and maybe some other work, but I think I'll just shoot it for a bit and see what happens. The LOP/DA weight are important, and I think I've gotten some great working advice when it comes to that.

ETA: What are the current popular sight offerings? I prefer POI just above front sight at 25 yards. I like plain black rears, so I've used 10-8 for years on Glocks, M&P's, VP9, and even my SIRT pistol, but they seem to only offer .273 height and I notice people opting for taller to raise POI to about where I prefer it. For fronts, I like the Trijicon HD's or similar Ameriglo offerings, but haven't found them sold separately for the 92. Thanks again, I'll continue to read through the Beretta mega thread.

[spinmove_]

This should be exactly what you're looking for as far as just the front sight is concerned.
http://www.opticsplanet.com/trijicon-beretta-92-96a1-hd-night-sight.html

[Jared]

Mag releases: I've tried 3 different ones. The Wilson checkered round one, the Beretta E2, and the Beretta checkered square one. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have bought the Wilson. The Beretta E2 can be a bit hard to find, but the square checkered one can be had at Midway USA, Beretta USA, and I think Brownells.

I've installed 2 Wilson ultimate action tune kits. They are very nice, but at 80 bucks per unit, I'm starting to think that just getting the 14# spring gets most of the benefits at a significant savings. I wouldn't go lighter than that without the full kit, and I'd definitely test before carrying.

The big benefits to replacing the captured RSA is it makes replacing the recoil spring easier and cheaper. The full RSA is available at Brownells. It's like 35 bucks if memory is correct. If u want to experiment with different recoil springs, I'd get the Wilson guide rod and not look back.

[Jared]

On the G conversion. I've read like three reports now of problems on this forum, the problems reportedly came from both vendors offering the conversion. So my two cents is that is you have problems accidentally engaging the safety when working the slide, go for the Wilson low profile single sided safety. They aren't kidding when they say low profile. I've installed a couple of these, it's pretty easy to do, and significantly less expensive than a G conversion. I've yet to unintentionally put one of these on safe, even when running the slide in ways that should cause the problem

[SamuelBLong]

This should be exactly what you're looking for as far as just the front sight is concerned.
http://www.opticsplanet.com/trijicon-beretta-92-96a1-hd-night-sight.html

Unless Trijicon has made some changes, the 92a1 HD sights don't zero.

GJM and I both have experienced it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jared]

Dawson Precision made custom front sights for a couple of 92a1's for me. They also do night sights for some pistols. I'd call them up and see what they can do for you. My experience with them was very positive.

[StraitR]

The HD front sight is great, but I don't like 3-dot sets nor the aft rake on their rears. Been looking for someone selling the fronts separately, like they do for glocks, but so far no luck.

Jared- Definitely looking for the Wilson checkered square version, but it's out of stock currently. I went ahead and placed an order last night for a pair of 14# springs, short trigger, trigger conversion spring, Ultra Slim Grips, and Low-Pro Single Sided Safety/Decocker.

I'm still reading up on sights, sight heights vs POA/POI, and looking for front options.

ETA: Correction, the link that Spinmove provided for OP has yellow outline front only for sale. Excellent, thank you.

[Jared]

StraitR, the square checkered mag release I'm referencing is a Beretta part, not the Wilson part. You should be able to find it on BerettaUSA site or MidwayUSA. My big thing here is that the factory part is USPSA PRODUCTION legal, whereas the aftermarket Wilson isn't. If that's not important to you, then either should be good.

[MGW]

It seems that most prefer the decocker only. Is there a reason that more people don't start with the 92G over the the FS or A1? Is there something other than the safety that is different on the 92 G that I'm not seeing?

[JSGlock34]

It seems that most prefer the decocker only. Is there a reason that more people don't start with the 92G over the the FS or A1? Is there something other than the safety that is different on the 92 G that I'm not seeing?

It depends on what features you are prioritizing. Beretta has made strides recently, but there are still some gaps in the catalog. If you want a 'G' model with dovetailed sights and an accessory rail, your choices are the 92G-SD or Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical 92G (both of which are among the most expensive 92 variants). The soon-to-arrive M9A3 will also offer all of these features, along with the ability to convert from FS to G, but will still cost more than a 92A1 or standard 92G.

The 92A1 and the 92FS Vertec are currently in production and offer dovetailed sights and a rail, but no 'G'. Both models are significantly less expensive than the 92G-SD or Brigadier Tactical. Unfortunately the 92G Vertec is out of production, but if revived it would fill a nice price point/feature niche in the Beretta catalog.

[MGW]

Thanks for the response. I knew there had to be a reason but couldn't figure out what it was.

[JTQ]

It seems that most prefer the decocker only. Is there a reason that more people don't start with the 92G over the the FS or A1? Is there something other than the safety that is different on the 92 G that I'm not seeing?
In addition to the sights issue, other than LE only G models that stopped being sold about ten years ago (?), the G model only became available to the general public within the past year, I believe. While they are in the Beretta catalog, and no doubt available at a variety of on-line sellers, I've not seen a single one in any of the half dozen or so local gun stores that I frequent. Most of the gun store guys, knowledgeable guys not doofuses, actually chuckle a little when you ask if they have any G models. They haven't seen them either.

[GardoneVT]

It seems that most prefer the decocker only. Is there a reason that more people don't start with the 92G over the the FS or A1? Is there something other than the safety that is different on the 92 G that I'm not seeing?

It should be noted , most average gun owners don't use the 92FS or any DA/SA pistol the way we do.

Among the Cleetii, DA is like a modern day Egyptian tomb curse. They buy Berettas and Sigs and whatnot for social value and range use , but they're only fired in SA. Then the gun is packed up and returned to the safe. In that mainstream function, FS and G are irrelevant.

If the user never shoots DA, they won't need a decocker.

[Jared]

It depends on what features you are prioritizing. Beretta has made strides recently, but there are still some gaps in the catalog. If you want a 'G' model with dovetailed sights and an accessory rail, your choices are the 92G-SD or Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical 92G (both of which are among the most expensive 92 variants). The soon-to-arrive M9A3 will also offer all of these features, along with the ability to convert from FS to G, but will still cost more than a 92A1 or standard 92G.

The 92A1 and the 92FS Vertec are currently in production and offer dovetailed sights and a rail, but no 'G'. Both models are significantly less expensive than the 92G-SD or Brigadier Tactical. Unfortunately the 92G Vertec is out of production, but if revived it would fill a nice price point/feature niche in the Beretta catalog.

This is spot on, IMO. Honestly, if Beretta would sell Vertec G slides separately, I'd be tickled pink.

[Edwin]

This is spot on, IMO. Honestly, if Beretta would sell Vertec G slides separately, I'd be tickled pink.

I'd buy a lone Vertec G slide so fast.

[Colt191145lover]

I'd buy a lone Vertec G slide so fast.

Me too!!!

[StraitR]

StraitR, the square checkered mag release I'm referencing is a Beretta part, not the Wilson part. You should be able to find it on BerettaUSA site or MidwayUSA. My big thing here is that the factory part is USPSA PRODUCTION legal, whereas the aftermarket Wilson isn't. If that's not important to you, then either should be good.

Thanks Jared. I'm not interested in USPSA, mostly because there aren't any matches close to me, but I will be playing with it in IDPA. That said, I don't really care what division I end up in. Last qualifier I shot in SSP, but have been shooting in CDP all year. I do it for practice, with the only "gaming" being that which is required by rules.

Anyway, I'll look into the factory Beretta offering. I think I saw it on Midway last night, $40 if I'm not mistaken.

Now I need to figure out a rear sight height to go along with the Trijicon HD front linked earlier.

ETA: I see in the thread below, that the Wilson .290 rear was suggested for use with Trijicon HD front, has anyone (George?) verified?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12590-Beretta-92A1-and-Trijicon-HD-sights

[JTQ]

What are you finding for holsters for the 92A1? Holster availability for a 4.9" barrel, standard slide, round trigger guard, and rail, is one of the things that have kept me from the 92A1. I've not found a whole lot of options.

[Jared]

OK, as far as holster go, my personal experience is that if you wanna put a 92A1 in a kydex holster, then that holster has to be made for a 92A1. Blade-Tech has offerings. JM Custom Kydex has offerings. Dark Star Gear made some excellent ones for me as well. As an aside, I've found that if a holster will take the 92A1, it will take every other Beretta 92 variant, except for the models with the Brigadier slide, and some will take the Brig slide. My Dark Star's will take a Brig, and my bladetech owb will take a Brig. My JM won't, but I've also never adjusted the tension to try to get it in either. The tension was so perfect out of the box I never wanted to touch it.

[Jared]

StraitR,

Magazines got mentioned earlier, and I'll share my experiences with you, and then I'll try to stop cluttering up your thread. Of the mags I've used, I rank them as follows

1. Mec-Gar AFC 18 and 20 round mags
2. Factory Beretta 15 round (standard)
3. Factory Beretta 17 round and 15 round PVD coated.

These rankings take cost into account as well as magazine performance. I've personally never had a problem with any of the listed mags. Still, the Mec-Gar AFC mags have a slightly different shape that makes mag changes a little less bobble prone, they are very affordable, and definitely feel like a high quality mag. They also run great in both 18 and 20 round versions.

The normal Beretta 15 rounders are perfectly adequate, and if they were all I had, I would lose no sleep over it. Though I prefer the Mec-Gar's, I've actually got more rounds on these because I have a ton of them around here from before I discovered the Mec-Gar's. At that time, I'd snag 5 any time I saw them on sale, and on sale they can be had cheap. MidwayUSA's normal non sale price on these used to be $20, and might still be.

I put the 17 round Beretta's and the 15 round Beretta PVD mags tied at the bottom for different reasons. I've got 6 of the 17 rounders. I've never had a stoppage on them, but occasionally when loading them the very first round sits in a way that gives me pause. Another member here has broken the baseplates on all of his. They're range mags only for me. Regarding the 15 round PVD's, They seem to be excellent mags, and I have two that came with my M9A1 that work great. They are expensive enough that I don't buy them separately, instead electing to buy the Mec-Gar's. So, again, the PVD's are good mags, but I ranked them low due to their extra cost.

[JSGlock34]

OK, as far as holster go, my personal experience is that if you wanna put a 92A1 in a kydex holster, then that holster has to be made for a 92A1. Blade-Tech has offerings.

There are some small dimensional differences between the 92A1 and standard 92 series. I don't think you can put a 92A1 slide on a standard 92 frame due to the recoil assembly.

[Jared]

There are some small dimensional differences between the 92A1 and standard 92 series. I don't think you can put a 92A1 slide on a standard 92 frame due to the recoil assembly.

Correct. It took me forever to find it, but the actual difference is the part of the slide that the recoil spring guide rod passes through is wider on a 92A1. The rest of the slide is the same according to my calipers. That is where you get into trouble putting that slide on a standard frame (I tried it) and where you get into trouble trying to get it into aa kydex holster not made specifically for a 92A1. BTW, an holster for a 90-two won't work, tried that with a Blade-Tech and failed. They kindly exchanged the holster for me.

[StraitR]

Jared, thanks for all the info. You're not cluttering my thread, but rather consolidating much of the information I've been trying to extrapolate from the Beretta Mega Thread. I've been reading, taking notes, and researching as I go in that thread and other PF threads for the last week. As of this writing, I'm just starting page 23.

All good things, and I'm grateful.

[LHS]

D-spring, sights, buy a bunch of good mags and ammo, and go shoot it.

[Jared]

Jared, thanks for all the info. You're not cluttering my thread, but rather consolidating much of the information I've been trying to extrapolate from the Beretta Mega Thread. I've been reading, taking notes, and researching as I go in that thread and other PF threads for the last week. As of this writing, I'm just starting page 23.

All good things, and I'm grateful.

Glad I could help. If there's anything else I can help with just ask, in the thread or PM.

[Sal Picante]

StraitR, the square checkered mag release I'm referencing is a Beretta part, not the Wilson part. You should be able to find it on BerettaUSA site or MidwayUSA. My big thing here is that the factory part is USPSA PRODUCTION legal, whereas the aftermarket Wilson isn't. If that's not important to you, then either should be good.

The Wilson BrigTacs come with the Wilson Square catch - since that gun is production legal, the wilson square part should be ok for USPSA production.

[Jared]

The Wilson BrigTacs come with the Wilson Square catch - since that gun is production legal, the wilson square part should be ok for USPSA production.

I'm an idiot and forgot all about the Brig Tac. You're right.

[Jared]

StraitR, I was reading this thread again, and noticed you were wanting the TCU. I believe Wilson is selling the Wolff TCU, and I do not think this will work with the 92A1, even if you install a steel trigger. I'm almost sure I read this somewhere. You might want to check further before ordering that part. At any rate, Wilson sells a chrome silicon trigger return spring which they say is much better than the factory part, so you might want to check that out.

[StraitR]

StraitR, I was reading this thread again, and noticed you were wanting the TCU. I believe Wilson is selling the Wolff TCU, and I do not think this will work with the 92A1, even if you install a steel trigger. I'm almost sure I read this somewhere. You might want to check further before ordering that part. At any rate, Wilson sells a chrome silicon trigger return spring which they say is much better than the factory part, so you might want to check that out.

I may be mistaken, but my understanding is it won't fit ANY 92 series with polymer trigger, but when switching to the Wilson steel short trigger, it's a required part to fit the WC trigger. At least that was my takeaway from reading about the parts and reviews on the WC website.

The trigger (review one explains the need for the TCU).... http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Short-Reach-Steel-Trigger-Beretta-92_96/productinfo/635/

The TCU installation instructions... http://www.gunsprings.com/content/File/Wolff%20Trigger%20Conversion%20Unit.pdf

Am I missing something?

[Dave J]

The Wilson BrigTacs come with the Wilson Square catch - since that gun is production legal, the wilson square part should be ok for USPSA production.

My Brig Tac came with the Beretta square extended mag release.. The Wilson one looks very similar, but has finer checkering.

[ReverendMeat]

In addition to the sights issue, other than LE only G models that stopped being sold about ten years ago (?), the G model only became available to the general public within the past year, I believe. While they are in the Beretta catalog, and no doubt available at a variety of on-line sellers, I've not seen a single one in any of the half dozen or so local gun stores that I frequent. Most of the gun store guys, knowledgeable guys not doofuses, actually chuckle a little when you ask if they have any G models. They haven't seen them either.

The current 92Gs are Lipsey's exclusives (though other distributors have them too. I got mine from Big Rock Sports). The reason nobody stocks them is because customers don't know what they are, but they're easy enough to order.

[Jared]

I may be mistaken, but my understanding is it won't fit ANY 92 series with polymer trigger, but when switching to the Wilson steel short trigger, it's a required part to fit the WC trigger. At least that was my takeaway from reading about the parts and reviews on the WC website.

The trigger (review one explains the need for the TCU).... http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Short-Reach-Steel-Trigger-Beretta-92_96/productinfo/635/

The TCU installation instructions... http://www.gunsprings.com/content/File/Wolff%20Trigger%20Conversion%20Unit.pdf

Am I missing something?


Ok, you're right that it will not work with any polymer trigger. I could swear I read somewhere that it wouldn't work with the 92A1 no matter what. Something about a difference in that area that may be machined a little different for the aluminum buffer that the 92A1 has. I'm surprised to hear that the Wilson SRT requires the TCU. I don't recall reading that in any of the reviews of the Wilson trigger here on PF. I've honestly never tried one myself though, so I just can't be certain. Hopefully it all meshes perfectly for you.

[StraitR]

Ok, you're right that it will not work with any polymer trigger. I could swear I read somewhere that it wouldn't work with the 92A1 no matter what. Something about a difference in that area that may be machined a little different for the aluminum buffer that the 92A1 has. I'm surprised to hear that the Wilson SRT requires the TCU. I don't recall reading that in any of the reviews of the Wilson trigger here on PF. I've honestly never tried one myself though, so I just can't be certain. Hopefully it all meshes perfectly for you.

Thanks, I hope it does too.

I read THIS (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12648-Beretta-92A1-plus-Wilson-Combat-Awesome) thread and review here yesterday, and I've watched plenty of reviews of their custom carry packages on 92A1's with their trigger in it, so I'd be really surprised if it doesn't fit.

LAV and Ken H shooting WC 92G/92A1 Beretta's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwRCeCBFtYg)

MrGunslinger's WC Custom Carry Package 92A1 Review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guZ5q9DyKfI)

[Jared]

I'm sure the trigger itself will fit, no doubt from me on that one.

The Wilson TCU, which I'm pretty sure is the Wolff TCU that was designed for the Border Patrol, is the part that I'm having doubts on. At any rate, if it won't fit, I fully expect you to be able to use the normal Beretta trigger return spring with the Wilson trigger. I just can't see them designing that trigger in such a way that you had to replace the TRS with that TCU. Doubly so as I've read some reports of that unit (the Wolff TCU) degrading trigger pull quality.

[StraitR]

I'm sure the trigger itself will fit, no doubt from me on that one.

The Wilson TCU, which I'm pretty sure is the Wolff TCU that was designed for the Border Patrol, is the part that I'm having doubts on. At any rate, if it won't fit, I fully expect you to be able to use the normal Beretta trigger return spring with the Wilson trigger. I just can't see them designing that trigger in such a way that you had to replace the TRS with that TCU. Doubly so as I've read some reports of that unit (the Wolff TCU) degrading trigger pull quality.

Ok, as long as I can install the Wilson trigger, I'm perfectly happy. I bought the TCU, which certainly looks to be the Wolff TCU per the installation instructions on WC website, because I thought I needed it to install the Wilson trigger (read in another review). This is my first, but certainly won't be my last Beretta, so I'm sure I'll find a use for the TCU if it's not used on this 92A1. Or, I'll just give it away in the Karma section. ;)

Thanks again for the help man, much appreciated.

[Jared]

No problem, and glad I could be of help.

Beretta's are addictive, no doubt. I will say this though. When I got my first one, it was a 92A1. I didn't really do a ton of research before I bought it, I just wanted a railed 92, and that's where I landed. That was actually before I even found this forum, iirc. Time went on, and I started to learn more about the discontinued cool variants like the G models, Elites, G-SD, etc, and I started to fell like the F models I had at the time were inadequate and boy if I could have one of those really cool ones that'd really be something.

Fast forward to today, and as Beretta has reintroduced some of those cool guns I've acquired them. Ive got a 92G, a Brigadier, a Vertec, and a G-SD. I really like them, and they're great guns. But its not like the clouds parted and the angels sang when I was shooting them either. That first 92A1 is still my nightstand pistol. I've done the majority of my USPSA shooting with a boring 92FS. My carry gun is either the 92G or my M9A1 compact (clothing dependant).

I guess my point is, don't get too wrapped around the axle about this little feature or that little feature that the one you've got lacks. The one you've got is a damn nice version of the 92, IMO.

[Hizzie]

I put a Wilson SRT in my BT. No TCU required.

[Casey]

I put a Wilson SRT in my BT. No TCU required.

I have a Wilson SRT in my M9 (commercial). Works both with the standard TRS and Wolff TCU. I bought the reduced power TCU and didn't care for the anemic reset, so I went back to the standard TRS.

As an aside, I'm not entirely sold on the SRT given my hand size (I wear size large gloves). I appreciate the shorter reach for DA shots, but find that the SA trigger break point is too close to the frame for me (this is one reason why I really like the VP9's forward break point).

[StraitR]

Thanks for the comments guys. The TCU I have coming with my Wilson parts is the standard power. Admittedly, I would have bought both to try, but the reduced power is OOS. I'm going shooting after work to get a baseline before my parts arrive tomorrow, then I plan on going sometime this weekend for comparison.