I fired an employee today (and it sucked)

[Software Guy]

So I don't post much but have been reading extensively but I need to vent somewhere. If I don't make a ton of sense it's because my brain has taken the day off.

I fired a long term employee/friend today and it royally sucked. Royally.

It was justified though. Not doing the job, been warned about it. Late at least 2 times a week and been warned about it (for way longer than most would accept which is my own fault) and by late I mean texting me more than a half hour after said person should have been in that they would be late....and the work just was not where it needed to be. earlier in the year it was once a week that he was sick or his teenagers were so he had to stay home. Now keep in mind because we can remote into the office we can work while sick IF YOU CHOOSE and not spread it to the rest of us, or you can take a sick day. As long as the work gets done, I don't care.

Looking back it should have been done a year ago but I kept a blind eye. I did give a final warning in July and as usual things got better and then went down hill. I emailed my lawyer and then talked with him and I *should* be clear if the employee decided to sue (doubtful), but I have a ton of documentation including fudged time sheets (a whole different and new story).

So, we work in one large room, it's only 5 of us and it lets us work really well together. The downside is no private office (which I have been working with the landlord on). I consulted my Lawyer to make sure that I/the company was *safe* to the best of our knowledge from a lawsuit--I will pay unemployment though because I'm not sure if contesting it is the right thing though I might win. So I told my Lawyer I would send the 1 other employee out that is in at that time for coffee so I could talk with him. He was worried that I shouldn't be alone. I told him I'd be fine but I didn't tell him I carry at work (because I make the rules and it's ok to carry if you have a permit, only 1 other employee does) because I really didn't want to have that conversation with him!

Moving forward I am not going to put up with that shit and lack of communication. This just means that my current employees will have to step up while I do the same. I need at least a month to gauge the progress of the software so I can detail (and write an employee handbook) what really needs to be done. Meanwhile the programmer I hired in March has made more progress that the one I just fired.

I'm sad it came to this but I did what I could to motivate the employee so it's not my fault.

So today sucked but for the right reasons in the end. I just can't deal with babysitting an employee every 2 months anymore, and I've been doing it way way way to long (again my fault).

So tonight I pick up the pieces and move forward, continue working on the budget to see what I can afford.

And I know it's not my fault, but I know that I was protected had this person lashed out and threatened me but it didn't come to that as I suspected.

I changed the lock code on the door, the security password and phrase, removed all remote access and the user. I had the other employees change their passwords as well, being there are only 5 of us left now.

This just sucks but I will always carry. If not for me then for my employees.

[RJ]

Sounds like you did the right thing.

Sometimes you have to kick people in the butt; and sometimes, the direction of that kick is out the door.

Look forward to your new, leaner enterprise. The rest of your folks will probably work better knowing you dealt with the issue fairly. I know I would.

Good job.

[TGS]

Just keep reminding yourself that one of the worst things a manager can ever do is to not get rid of bad employees.

It drives away the good employees, and kills motivation for the ones who stay and have to deal with it.

[Kukuforguns]

So I don't post much but have been reading extensively but I need to vent somewhere. If I don't make a ton of sense it's because my brain has taken the day off.

I fired a long term employee/friend today and it royally sucked. Royally.

It was justified though. Not doing the job, been warned about it. Late at least 2 times a week and been warned about it (for way longer than most would accept which is my own fault) and by late I mean texting me more than a half hour after said person should have been in that they would be late....and the work just was not where it needed to be. earlier in the year it was once a week that he was sick or his teenagers were so he had to stay home. Now keep in mind because we can remote into the office we can work while sick IF YOU CHOOSE and not spread it to the rest of us, or you can take a sick day. As long as the work gets done, I don't care.

Looking back it should have been done a year ago but I kept a blind eye. I did give a final warning in July and as usual things got better and then went down hill. I emailed my lawyer and then talked with him and I *should* be clear if the employee decided to sue (doubtful), but I have a ton of documentation including fudged time sheets (a whole different and new story).

So, we work in one large room, it's only 5 of us and it lets us work really well together. The downside is no private office (which I have been working with the landlord on). I consulted my Lawyer to make sure that I/the company was *safe* to the best of our knowledge from a lawsuit--I will pay unemployment though because I'm not sure if contesting it is the right thing though I might win. So I told my Lawyer I would send the 1 other employee out that is in at that time for coffee so I could talk with him. He was worried that I shouldn't be alone. I told him I'd be fine but I didn't tell him I carry at work (because I make the rules and it's ok to carry if you have a permit, only 1 other employee does) because I really didn't want to have that conversation with him!

Moving forward I am not going to put up with that shit and lack of communication. This just means that my current employees will have to step up while I do the same. I need at least a month to gauge the progress of the software so I can detail (and write an employee handbook) what really needs to be done. Meanwhile the programmer I hired in March has made more progress that the one I just fired.

I'm sad it came to this but I did what I could to motivate the employee so it's not my fault.

So today sucked but for the right reasons in the end. I just can't deal with babysitting an employee every 2 months anymore, and I've been doing it way way way to long (again my fault).

So tonight I pick up the pieces and move forward, continue working on the budget to see what I can afford.

And I know it's not my fault, but I know that I was protected had this person lashed out and threatened me but it didn't come to that as I suspected.

I changed the lock code on the door, the security password and phrase, removed all remote access and the user. I had the other employees change their passwords as well, being there are only 5 of us left now.

This just sucks but I will always carry. If not for me then for my employees.
I suspect the reason your lawyer wanted another person present was to have a second witness to corroborate your account of how the termination meeting went. In a one on one situation it becomes a he said, I said situation which is not ideal. Sorry for the heartburn.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Recommend you not discuss this on-line and especially discussions with your lawyer if you are concerned about litigation.

While it might seem heartless, you don't do an employee a favor by keeping them in a job they are not succeeding in. The standard for deciding whether an employee isn't making it will never be 100 percent clear, you really have to go with a preponderance of the evidence. If you wait for 100 percent certainly, you will generally regret it. People don't come to you and say "they are a lousy employee with a poor work ethic." They say you or their supervisor is unfair, that the job is impossible, that their co-workers are bad, and on and on. Often they go on sick leave, workers comp or some other diversion when they realize the gig is up.

[RoyGBiv]

Was this friend always a marginal/poor performer or is this something that's come up slowly over time?
Any chance there's some personal stuff going on that's causing it? marriage trouble, drugs, alcohol?

Sorry you had to go through that.

FWIW.... you can bet that his performance was noticeable to everyone and other employees are likely grateful that his drama is gone. It may be worthwhile to schedule some 1on1 time with your other employees and give them a chance to ask questions. Maybe make some reassurances that what happened with the gone guy is not a reflection on the financial condition of the company.... that the other folks are not in jeopardy of getting laid off. Even if the no-layoff thing is obvious, there may be concerns the laid off guy was dealt with fairly... reassurances can't hurt. Just remain aware of maintaining privacy.

[BWT]

Best advice I can give to you is:

- Give employees a chance to express concerns/discuss the topic with you if they have them.
- Don't bad mouth him at this point (if you ever did). It's done and the issues don't need to be re-hashed.
- Take your employees out or do something to invest in them and let them know you appreciate them. Celebrate the people you do have; put a positive spin on things.

They will look to you for leadership; be careful the example you set.

God bless,

Brandon

ETA: I would also recommend not speaking about the situation publicly.

[Software Guy]

I know I shouldn't discuss it on line but I did but only here. I have had to repeatedly kick this person in the butt. I had some great conversations with my employees yesterday about how we will move forward and frankly it did all of us some good, myself included.

Today is a new day and I'm looking forward to this project moving in the right direction.

[NEPAKevin]

...but I have a ton of documentation including fudged time sheets (a whole different and new story).



Not sure about NY, but in PA, falsifying time sheets is not only justification for termination but also grounds for criminal prosecution as it is a form of theft. At my job, after an employee completes their probationary period, we have to formally write them up three times for poor performance prior to firing, the exceptions being gross misconduct such as documented theft, assault, and so forth.

[The Apprentice]

I always feel bad when I lay someone off which do to the nature of my work is fairly often. I am a union pipefitter by trade and it happens a lot either because of lack of work or not doing your job. People like to talk bad about unions and how we all sit on our butts all day but then I hear stories like this and am amazed. Multiple warnings over the course of a year if I know you and know you can do better you might get a warning otherwise payday comes around and it's sorry things aren't working out. We are all adults and trained professionals you know what a full days worth of work is so go do it. I am not going to hound you or chase after you and make my life and the others on the job miserable because you won't do yours. You have to focus on the fact that your life and the lives of your other employees will be better.

[Software Guy]

Not sure about NY, but in PA, falsifying time sheets is not only justification for termination but also grounds for criminal prosecution as it is a form of theft. At my job, after an employee completes their probationary period, we have to formally write them up three times for poor performance prior to firing, the exceptions being gross misconduct such as documented theft, assault, and so forth.

NY is hire and fire at will. No reason needed though if questioned I do have to answer to the DOL.

[ubervic]

Been there and done that.
The work world would be great if only it did not require managing humans.