What .22?

[MGW]

I'm wanting to buy a new .22 pistol this winter. It's going to serve mostly as a trainer and hopefully a beginner action shooting pistol for our 11 year old son. I'll shoot it some too of course.

My initial thought was to buy a Ruger 22/45, 22 lite, or similar. Is it still the gold standard in young shooter friendly .22's? Is there something else out there I should consider?

The Ruger Mk series has been out forever. I had a Mk II bull barrel when I was his age and I remember it being a nice, accurate little pistol. It also has lots of after market support.

My main objectives are finding something for him that will be safe, dependable, accurate, and durable. Also would like to keep the price reasonable. He's big for his age and has no issues shooting Glock 9mm's. I think he would be fine with anything that out there size wise.

[LittleLebowski]

M&P Compact .22 or Ruger 22/45 Lite. I prefer the latter due to the ease with which one may mount a red dot to it and the suppressor friendly threaded barrel. I have a 22/45 Lite of my own.

[MichaelD]

As much as I like my full-size M&P22, I'll second the recommendation for the 22/45 Lite. You can't beat it's flexibility and aftermarket support.

[shootist26]

I've had a lot of trouble with my mkiii and 22/45. Fails to eject the empty case once every 100-300 rds even with a volquartsen extractor. My 22/45 is better and I'm selling the mkiii.

Nice shooters but not sure if I'm expecting too much out of a 22 from a reliability standpoint. I'm too used to my berettas and sigs that dont fail

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[Tamara]

I put a lot of miles on a MkIII 22/45, and it's got plenty of life left in it. When I switched from carrying 1911s to the M&P 9, I picked up an M&P 22 as an understudy. It didn't take me long to decide to snag a backup M&P 22 when the chance presented itself, because I doubt this thing will have the longevity of the 22/45. (And I abused that 22/45; it got cleaned only when it was so dirty that you could watch the bolt cycle in slow-mo...)

[JHC]

The M&P Compact is wicked cool and the trigger on the one I've handled was really nice.

[Wheeler]

I'm of two minds. My Mark2 Goobermint keeps chugging away. Good Ammo, crap ammo, mediocre ammo it takes it all in stride. That being said...

I've reluctantly come to like my son's M&P 22. It's accurate, it handles the same ammo the Mark2 does although it's a bit more finicky. I can't speak for the longevity as we've only put about 2000 rounds through it. The Mark2 is hovering around the 10,000 mark.

I've heard complaints at the local .22 Steel Challenge about the reliability of the 22/45 Lites. Those guys run their guns pretty hard though.

[orionz06]

I like my 22/45 Lite. Works well with my SS Sparrow and most any ammo I've used so far. The CB Longs from CCI didn't cycle but I was not expecting it.

[vaspence]

I'd agree with the above on the 22/45 Lite and the M&P Compact. The 22/45 Lite is great with an optic and the M&P Compact is like the Bearcat of small semiautos. Both work well suppressed if that is a concern.

I'd also take a look at the Browning Buckmark. Ours is the most loved and abused handgun in the safe.

[MGW]

Well, if it's a toss up between the Ruger and Smith I'll probably pick up the Ruger. Availability of parts and magazines, new and used, seems to tip the scales decidedly in favor of the Ruger.

Thanks for the input all.

[shootist26]

one piece of advice with the Ruger.

Once you get it, install the bushing that replaces the factory mag disconnect right off the bat. I got mine from Tandemkross. Practically a mandatory upgrade IMO. Not only does it improve functionality by letting the mags drop free, it also turns the disassembly/reassembly process from a giant pain in the ass to a somewhat tolerable one

[Luke]

Does the M&P mag drop free like the normal M&P?

[CCT125US]

On my .22C they drop free if they are clean. They don't weigh much so it doesn't take alot to hang them up.

[LittleLebowski]

one piece of advice with the Ruger.

Once you get it, install the bushing that replaces the factory mag disconnect right off the bat. I got mine from Tandemkross. Practically a mandatory upgrade IMO. Not only does it improve functionality by letting the mags drop free, it also turns the disassembly/reassembly process from a giant pain in the ass to a somewhat tolerable one

It is still a pretty painful process.

[ReverendMeat]

I vote Buckmark.

The 22/45 is fine but the only reason I have one is because I needed a suppressor host. If Browning had a threaded barrel Buckmark readily available I'd trade the 22/45 without a second thought.

[Alembic]

I bought a Ruger SR22 maybe 6 months ago. I've put at least 1000 rounds through it. It's accurate, the sights are good. POA and POI were spot on at 10 yards with Federal 40grn. The trigger is not great, DA is stiff, but I think the SA is fine, coming from HK DA/SA, LEM and Glock experience. I was not looking for a target gun.

First, it's for my 11 year old daughter. It's become her favorite at the range. Second, a fun gun for me. It has a trigger disconnect when the mag is out, I think of that as a nice safety feature for kids, and newbies. The safety is opposite but no big deal. Take down is easy, but I don't clean it much. I have five 10 round magazines for it, they drop free, maybe one failure to fire or eject per 50. Is that to many for a range gun? It's durability seems fine.

[MichaelD]

Does the M&P mag drop free like the normal M&P?

They do, at least on the full-size model.

[Al T.]

Another vote for the S&W .22 Compact. Good accuracy (5 inches at 25y with CCI Blazer), easy field strip, excellent ergonomics, easy to carry. Zero feeding issues so far, but I'm shy of 1k rounds down range....

[ragnar_d]

The 22/45 Lite is high on my list of .22 pistols to purchase (just need to find an older one with the black top half). The Buckmark is another favorite as well.

[Clay1]

What will the young one shoot after this rimfire? If you are invested in the M&P platform, get that. If the next step isn't a big deal to you the Ruger is a nice gun. I actually bought a G34 lower and put an Advanced Armament 22 rimfire upper on it. Same exact lower as my competition gun, same grip / trigger bow, mag release etc. I like rimfire.

[MGW]

He'll shoot what ever fits him the best next. I'm invested in Glocks but with the grip size options I can see a P320 being added to the house in the future.

[RJ]

Good thread. Congrats to your son.

I am also interested in a .22 as a cheap(er) option for a training pistol.

Purely anecdotal, but at my first Steel match Saturday, gentleman was running I think an M&P .22 compact. He had a devil of a time with it; I noticed about four ftf in our six stages. TRB fixed them, but it was not good.

Are there any systemic issues with the .22 M&P? Or could that have been a lack of cleaning / lube?

[vaspence]

Good thread. Congrats to your son.

I am also interested in a .22 as a cheap(er) option for a training pistol.

Purely anecdotal, but at my first Steel match Saturday, gentleman was running I think an M&P .22 compact. He had a devil of a time with it; I noticed about four ftf in our six stages. TRB fixed them, but it was not good.

Are there any systemic issues with the .22 M&P? Or could that have been a lack of cleaning / lube?

My guess would be crappy ammunition. In some of the bulk stuff it is not uncommon to see a dud.

[bigslim]

My personal M&P 22 FS is not very reliable, so much so that I decided to buy a 22/45 as an open gun host. Magazines are not great, the trigger is different enough to not really count as an analog to the M&P40 I used to shoot and aftermarket support was lacking.

Out of the box the Ruger was 100% more reliable and serviceable than my M&P22. The 22/45 is not perfect but the aftermarket support is outstanding and you can easily make it what you want.

Mike

[LittleLebowski]

Are there any systemic issues with the .22 M&P? Or could that have been a lack of cleaning / lube?

There's 2 types of M&P22, actually. There's the M&P22 and the M&P22 Compact. They use different mags as well. The former is an Umarex design, supposedly now manufacturers by S&W. The latter is all S&W.

I have run an M&P22 very hard whilst suppressed (only suppressed). It works great. However, the thread adapter is a pain and that is a fault of having to use a thread adapter, not of the pistol's. It shoots quite well, runs happily filthy.

That being said, I would recommend a 22/45 Lite with red dot and a suppressor from experience. If you want a .22 M&P, get the Compact with threaded barrel.

Obligatory pictures.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11050254_459460130898882_5899652603467110939_n.jpg ?oh=c552c1804fdf0498cbb7ae1734a5a1b7&oe=56C0CC89

The M&P 22 runs well, even this dirty from suppressed fire.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/11947987_468739699970925_5142485584155126609_o.jpg

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11887859_464483897063172_6614515402383344771_n.jpg ?oh=cb997d18be9d6aa9d989081492cc2fb0&oe=56C3EAEC

[Josh Runkle]

I have 2 22/45's and they are absolutely a necessity. I would pass on walther p22 and Sig mosquito...I have both and they suck. I've shot CCT125US's M&P .22 compact like one time and it was pretty nice. The most accurate .22 I've shot (but has absolutely the worst trigger) is the walther ppk/s .22. I have had one for a couple of years. It would be perfect if not for having the world's worst trigger.

I would buy a 22/45 pac lite.

[LittleLebowski]

I have 2 22/45's and they are absolutely a necessity. I would pass on walther p22 and Sig mosquito...I have both and they suck. I've shot CCT125US's M&P .22 compact like one time and it was pretty nice. The most accurate .22 I've shot (but has absolutely the worst trigger) is the walther ppk/s .22. I have had one for a couple of years. It would be perfect if not for having the world's worst trigger.

I would buy a 22/45 pac lite.

I did the math and the 22/45 Lite works out to be cheaper and there are multiple reports of PacLite barrels being damaged like so from regular use (http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/paclite-22-45-barrel-face-damage-this-normal-pics.1178227/). At least one report I found online mentioned the owner being told by PacLite that said damage is "normal" and to go shoot the gun. That may be only cosmetic damage but I won't spend my money on a PacLite.

[1986s4]

I have two rimfires, a S&W M18 revolver and a Advantage Arms .22 conversion for my Colt 1911. The AA conversion has run flawlessly since I got it. Just use the recommended ammunition and it runs. My kids love it and so do beginners. Going through a bucket of Remington "Golden Bullets" without stoppage.

[shootist26]

It is still a pretty painful process.

In my experience, the pain factor depends on two things:
1) how tight your gun is
2) whether you can visualize how the hammer strut interfaces with the mainspring housing.

Regarding #1, my MkIII is so tight you need a hammer and punch to knock out the mainspring housing. You also need a hammer and punch to knock the thing back in, which is an enormous pain in the ass given the steep grip angle. My 22/45 is so loose I can pull it out and put it back in with my hands using little effort.

For #2, if you can see the hammer strut dangling and know to tip the gun muzzle up so the strut falls backwards and seats properly in the mainspring housing, it should be pretty straightforward to reassemble.

[LittleLebowski]

In my experience, the pain factor depends on two things:
1) how tight your gun is
2) whether you can visualize how the hammer strut interfaces with the mainspring housing.

Regarding #1, my MkIII is so tight you need a hammer and punch to knock out the mainspring housing. You also need a hammer and punch to knock the thing back in, which is an enormous pain in the ass given the steep grip angle. My 22/45 is so loose I can pull it out and put it back in with my hands using little effort.

For #2, if you can see the hammer strut dangling and know to tip the gun muzzle up so the strut falls backwards and seats properly in the mainspring housing, it should be pretty straightforward to reassemble.

Very true but you still have random parts literally falling out of the lower receiver here and there during disassembly/reassembly. It is just a painful learning process, one that has cost me a couple of hours of my life.

[peterb]

There is the Majestic Speed Strip kit for the Rugers, but I've never used one.
http://www.majesticarms.com/id10.html

I've got a Mk.II with a Volquartsen sear and trigger. It's been very reliable. The only problem has been when using standard velocity(unplated) rounds --- the bullet lubricant rubs off and eventually gums up the magazines.

[LittleLebowski]

There is the Majestic Speed Strip kit for the Rugers, but I've never used one.
http://www.majesticarms.com/id10.html

I've got a Mk.II with a Volquartsen sear and trigger. It's been very reliable. The only problem has been when using standard velocity(unplated) rounds --- the bullet lubricant rubs off and eventually gums up the magazines.

Thanks for the reminder, I need to toss my Ruger mags in the ultrasonic cleaner tomorrow. I'll post pics.

[MGW]

Buying decent .22 ammo is still hit or miss for me around here. It's one of the reasons I've waited so long to buy a new rim fire pistol.

[johnson]

My first choice is a CZ Kadet conversion if you ever plan on getting a 75B or SP-01. It runs great with bulk ammo besides the occasional weak load or primer issues. Downsides are magazines costing about $40 a pop.

I have a 75B SA 9mm but have the Kadet upper installed probably 90% of the time. I like how I can teach a completely new shooter basic marksmanship with the .22 and after they get comfortable, put on the 9mm upper and have them shooting just as well with the higher recoil. Weight, trigger, etc. are all the same, even the magazine size although it's still limited to 10 rounds.

I would sell my Beretta 87 Cheetah before the Kadet if it came down to it.

Other choice is the tried and true Ruger. I generally like the 22/45 LITE but can't get past the stupid flutes on the new models. I wish they came out with a plain looking one like a Pac-Lite upper. There's tons of aftermarket upgrades and support and would be easier to add a red dot. One other thing is that it may be TOO lightweight for target shooting, at least for me. I find it easier to steady a heavier gun.

[Sal Picante]

I have a 1950-some vintage Ruger .22 that lives in my range bag. I have a CZ conversion, a Beretta conversion a few 2 High Standards (bullseye guns) and another Ruger Target, but this old 1950's field gun is "teh awesome".

I've shot more .22 than centerfire ammo.

BTW - if you have one that isn't running right, send it back to Ruger and they'll make it right...

[45dotACP]

For the OP, I like an advantage arms kit but that's because you'd get some value from it as well as your new and budding shooter ;)

Otherwise, I like the Browning Buckmark. Just a fantastic .22 IMO. The rugers are really great too but I learned to shoot a pistol with a Buckmark and so I have a fondness in my heart for them.

Just as long as it isn't a P22 or Sig Mosquito. I've never used either without some serious problems...

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[VT1032]

For the OP, I like an advantage arms kit but that's because you'd get some value from it as well as your new and budding shooter ;)

Otherwise, I like the Browning Buckmark. Just a fantastic .22 IMO. The rugers are really great too but I learned to shoot a pistol with a Buckmark and so I have a fondness in my heart for them.

Just as long as it isn't a P22 or Sig Mosquito. I've never used either without some serious problems...

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I was on my college scholastic steel challenge team. We had the ruger 22/45s, mkIIIs and browning buckmarks. The ruger were like tanks. We put stupid high round counts on them, ie able to see the slide cycle slowly, without a bobble. The buckmarks just didn't run as well. We eventually ditched them and bought more rugers. I've had a lot of good luck with my wife's sr22 as well. Other then bad ammo, confirmed in other guns, it has not malfunctioned in about 1,000 rounds.

[45dotACP]

I was taught to shoot in a 4H shooting sports program. Those three Brownings and later when we went with 22/45s, the three Rugers would see about 30 rounds from about 300 kids weekly total and neither had any problems...so not stupid high round counts or anything and I guess I'll defer to your experience on that one.

The walther p22 and sig mosquitoes I shot were either inaccurate (walther) or in the case of the sig, wouldn't fire after the first DA shot...trigger was dead and the gun was a paperweight, and this happened across several mosquitoes... Never tried the ruger but I've trusted ruger for good rimfire guns and see no reason the SR22 wouldn't be decent. I'm just leery :D

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