Surf
10-18-2015, 03:42 PM
Just thought I would update my full sized P320 experiences. I know we have some P320 threads but I wanted to keep my thoughts in this thread. If it needs to be consolidated somewhere else not a problem.
I am currently involved (going into week 6) in our new guy 10 week course. We have been pretty much dry, outside of SIMS, for the last 3 weeks. During this time, I have heavily dedicated dry fire / dry manipulations to my full size P320. Tweaking hand placement on in initial contact in the holster and burning a ton of reps with draw and presentation. Doing a ton of dummy round drills and reloads. Obviously these two pistols are hugely different in my view from a kinesthetic standpoint between the Glock and Sig. So this past Friday after about the 3 weeks of no live fire and just dry manipulations I had some time to hit the range and I ran some drills that I feel are easily set up but good standards to compare weapons / shooter performance.
I started off with the P320 and the FAST from cold. I thought I ran at a pace that I am usually about 90% with getting all hits and I am a tick faster with the Glock. First 3 runs with the P320 were 4.5x, 4.4x and 4.5x with all 1 miss on the third run. I was a bit surprised at the times as I am normally around 4.7x to 4.8x range cold at a and 90% hit pace. I noted that my First two shots were very quick for myself and this is where the time was coming from. I then continued by running "The Test", a 2,2,2, a reload drill and then wrapped it up with singles followed by doubles to a 3x5. Everything from 7 yards, except "The Test" which was from the standard 10 yards.
I then ran my Glock 17 through the same drills. My initial dry draws and presentations were pointing high as I had burned the Sig back into my brain. So to be fair as I spent a few minutes doing dry manipulations. I noted that even when I warmed up with the Glock I still could not hit the consistency on the FAST test as I did with the 320. I did hit similar times but had more misses, which one might attribute to my recent dry time and reps with the Sig.
I noted that my score with "The Test" had similar times, however my 10 ring count was consistently higher by a tick with the Sig than the Glock.
On the 2,2,2 I was a tick faster transitionally in splits with the Glock. With similar shot to shot splits and holding all A zones, my doubles were slightly tighter with the Glock and my hits with the Sig suggests that I am having a harder time stopping the weapon as precisely on target with more side to side "rebound" than the Glock. Sig is probably hindered by the extra mass particularly at the muzzle end. Of course this may just mean I need more time fixing myself in regards to the pistol.
With a worked magwell, shaped with heat and material removal on both weapons, reloads were better with the Glock. There is big improvement potentials from the factory with the 320 if Sig ever wanted to rethink the grip module and fix it from the factory. The aftermarket is ripe for it. I am not talking add-on magwells but a redesign, especially to fit any stock classifications. I am not a competition guy, but I would think this would greatly boost the appeal in the competition world if this were done. The Sig magwell quite frankly was not designed by someone who truly understands fast reloads. A redesigned magwell does not have to hurt reliability either, so they should improve it.
When doing singles and doubles on the 3x5, I was shocked that the Sig started to run away from the Glock. I think the added weight / length of the full sized 320 with more mass on the muzzle end just kept the pistol flatter and gave me more confidence to really click off some fast times, at least for myself. So much so, that I decided revisit the FAST with the 320. Now I was highly warmed up at this point and I "gamed" it a bit but I ran some of the quickest times ever on the FAST and it was with the Sig. I am a bit shocked to say the least and starting next week I will be going into 7 days of our advanced combative firearms training so I will take more time to wring things out a bit more. I will also add that my partner picked up the C conversion, so I look forward to running it back to back to back with the full size and the Glock 17/19.
Ok for the big shocker and this topic was heavily discussed in another thread recently, was that I started playing with presentation types on the 3x5 card at 7 yards. My shocker is that I was ripping faster times with far greater hit consistency with a classic muzzle up press-out, as opposed to using a 45° straight to the target index, or a muzzle flat press-out, or a hybrid. This is something I need to wring out a bit more. I think if it were an A zone acceptable hit zone then the index would be faster, but I ran out of time to keep playing with it.
I will attempt to update as time allows.
I am currently involved (going into week 6) in our new guy 10 week course. We have been pretty much dry, outside of SIMS, for the last 3 weeks. During this time, I have heavily dedicated dry fire / dry manipulations to my full size P320. Tweaking hand placement on in initial contact in the holster and burning a ton of reps with draw and presentation. Doing a ton of dummy round drills and reloads. Obviously these two pistols are hugely different in my view from a kinesthetic standpoint between the Glock and Sig. So this past Friday after about the 3 weeks of no live fire and just dry manipulations I had some time to hit the range and I ran some drills that I feel are easily set up but good standards to compare weapons / shooter performance.
I started off with the P320 and the FAST from cold. I thought I ran at a pace that I am usually about 90% with getting all hits and I am a tick faster with the Glock. First 3 runs with the P320 were 4.5x, 4.4x and 4.5x with all 1 miss on the third run. I was a bit surprised at the times as I am normally around 4.7x to 4.8x range cold at a and 90% hit pace. I noted that my First two shots were very quick for myself and this is where the time was coming from. I then continued by running "The Test", a 2,2,2, a reload drill and then wrapped it up with singles followed by doubles to a 3x5. Everything from 7 yards, except "The Test" which was from the standard 10 yards.
I then ran my Glock 17 through the same drills. My initial dry draws and presentations were pointing high as I had burned the Sig back into my brain. So to be fair as I spent a few minutes doing dry manipulations. I noted that even when I warmed up with the Glock I still could not hit the consistency on the FAST test as I did with the 320. I did hit similar times but had more misses, which one might attribute to my recent dry time and reps with the Sig.
I noted that my score with "The Test" had similar times, however my 10 ring count was consistently higher by a tick with the Sig than the Glock.
On the 2,2,2 I was a tick faster transitionally in splits with the Glock. With similar shot to shot splits and holding all A zones, my doubles were slightly tighter with the Glock and my hits with the Sig suggests that I am having a harder time stopping the weapon as precisely on target with more side to side "rebound" than the Glock. Sig is probably hindered by the extra mass particularly at the muzzle end. Of course this may just mean I need more time fixing myself in regards to the pistol.
With a worked magwell, shaped with heat and material removal on both weapons, reloads were better with the Glock. There is big improvement potentials from the factory with the 320 if Sig ever wanted to rethink the grip module and fix it from the factory. The aftermarket is ripe for it. I am not talking add-on magwells but a redesign, especially to fit any stock classifications. I am not a competition guy, but I would think this would greatly boost the appeal in the competition world if this were done. The Sig magwell quite frankly was not designed by someone who truly understands fast reloads. A redesigned magwell does not have to hurt reliability either, so they should improve it.
When doing singles and doubles on the 3x5, I was shocked that the Sig started to run away from the Glock. I think the added weight / length of the full sized 320 with more mass on the muzzle end just kept the pistol flatter and gave me more confidence to really click off some fast times, at least for myself. So much so, that I decided revisit the FAST with the 320. Now I was highly warmed up at this point and I "gamed" it a bit but I ran some of the quickest times ever on the FAST and it was with the Sig. I am a bit shocked to say the least and starting next week I will be going into 7 days of our advanced combative firearms training so I will take more time to wring things out a bit more. I will also add that my partner picked up the C conversion, so I look forward to running it back to back to back with the full size and the Glock 17/19.
Ok for the big shocker and this topic was heavily discussed in another thread recently, was that I started playing with presentation types on the 3x5 card at 7 yards. My shocker is that I was ripping faster times with far greater hit consistency with a classic muzzle up press-out, as opposed to using a 45° straight to the target index, or a muzzle flat press-out, or a hybrid. This is something I need to wring out a bit more. I think if it were an A zone acceptable hit zone then the index would be faster, but I ran out of time to keep playing with it.
I will attempt to update as time allows.