M&P9 Accuracy Issues

[spinmove_]

So I've found a couple references here and there regarding the M&P9's early issues with having accuracy problems. I've heard this as well, but was under the impression that S&W had fixed this issue in newer production M&Ps. Apparently there are still reports of M&P9s having accuracy issues? Is this correct and, if so, how bad are the inaccuracy issues that we're talking about?

[RJ]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8390-Apex-Barsto-barrel-M-amp-P-9mm&highlight=Apex

Best explanation about the FS9, and why some guns have accuracy problems, I've seen. Start at post #20.

ETA: if your gun shoots inside 4" off a rest at 25 yards, you are probably going to be ok for a HD gun. YMMV, of course.

Rich

[spinmove_]

I read through that entire thread last night. I've got mixed feelings on the situation. On the one hand, I have the potential of having an M&P9 that is perfectly fine and in-spec. On the other, I could have one that is not in spec and will perform horribly at 25yds, or, heaven forbid, something happens to my perfectly good M&P9 and I end up getting a replacement and that one turns out like crap.

It'd just be nice to know if S&W is actively trying to fix this issue or if they don't give a crap and I'd be better served by moving to Glock or Sig's P320 platform.

[Luke]

If your already invested in the platform and like it why not wait for a apex barrel to come out and do the semi drop in?

[spinmove_]

If your already invested in the platform and like it why not wait for a apex barrel to come out and do the semi drop in?

Because I shouldn't have to spend $150 or more just to get the kind of precision I SHOULD be getting out of the pistol. Precision that I can readily get out of the box with another pistol. I'm not THAT heavily invested in the platform. If I was, it'd be a different story. But why would I go the option of a $450-$500 pistol (M&P) that then needed a replacement barrel ($150 or more) when I can just spend $450-$550 (Glock 19 or P320c) and not have to change anything but sights? Just because I wish I was made of money doesn't necessarily mean that I am.

[ubervic]

Fire some rounds on a rest at 25 yds and see for yourself if the accuracy of your pistol is where you want/need it to be.

[RJ]

I read through that entire thread last night. I've got mixed feelings on the situation. On the one hand, I have the potential of having an M&P9 that is perfectly fine and in-spec. On the other, I could have one that is not in spec and will perform horribly at 25yds, or, heaven forbid, something happens to my perfectly good M&P9 and I end up getting a replacement and that one turns out like crap.

It'd just be nice to know if S&W is actively trying to fix this issue or if they don't give a crap and I'd be better served by moving to Glock or Sig's P320 platform.

Indeed.

I bought an HK VP9 in March. There are no "match barrels" available for the VP9 I know of. :cool:

Kidding, :). Hey, I feel for ya. The M&P has been described as "a decent gun $50 in parts away from being a game changer."(paraphrasing, but I've heard that sentiment expressed.)

I really liked my M&P when I bought in in 2013. I still have it. It is sitting beside me, now, with an Apex DCAEK, loaded with Speer 124+ps and a TLR-1 in a Kydex holster. I am very confident it will go 'bang' if I need it to.

Would I buy it again?

No.

Do I think S&W is working on 'the problem'?

Yes. I believe they are teaming up with General Dynamics to refine their design to meet the oft quoted accuracy requirement of 1" at 50 yards for the Military Handgun System proposal submittal due on January.

But to the general public, no, I don't think the 'regular' M&P will change.

You might have/get a good one.

And you might not.

Does yours shoot 4" off a rest at 25 yards? If so, I'd stop worrying about it and start getting training and buying training ammunition.

If not, in my uneducated opinion, a Glock 17/19, HK VP9, Sig P320, or Walther PPQ make a better all around HD/range/light competition gun, and be more likely to consistently meet a 4" / 25 yd accuracy standard.

Buy one of those, THEN start getting training and buying training ammunition.

I don't "fit" Glocks, so I bought the VP9 in March. All I've done is add the HD sights. I love it.

Good luck!

[RJ]

Fire some rounds on a rest at 25 yds and see for yourself if the accuracy of your pistol is where you want/need it to be.

^^^ This.

[spinmove_]

Unfortunately I don't have a rest handy, but I think I know of a place that I could find one to use. So maybe I'll try that next.

As for leaving the M&P platform, it kinda irks me a bit. Admittedly, in my ridiculous ignorance and n00bishness, I sold a G19 to fund the M&P9 due to perceived shortcomings of the G19. Shortcomings were always shooting left of center regardless of distance to the target. This ended up, ultimately, being an issue with my ability to pull the trigger and the fact that I wear glasses which correct near-sightedness and slight astigmatisms in both eyes. And I'm cross-dominant. Remove the glasses and fixed my trigger control issues, I can print dead center all day with any pistol I pick up now.

So if I were to leave the M&P (which kinda sucks because it's really been steadily growing on me) I'm not sure exactly where I'd go. I think I'd have to go G19 or P320c. Somewhat leaning back towards the G19 of those two.

Either way, bench rest testing will need to ensue before I worry too much about it. If it cuts the accuracy mustard, then I'll hang on to it for now. If not, I might look into offloading it.

[ubervic]

I hear you. Almost a year ago, I'd just about convinced myself that my MP9FS was showing accuracy issues, as my groups were decent but I was seeing frequent odd flyers. Well, I doubled-down on my fundamentals and realized that I had been applying them poorly or inconsistently.

After changing the backstrap size down to the SMALL from the MEDIUM, I worked dry-fire like crazy, I forced myself to fall in love with the front sight (never taking my eyes off it), I changed my grip a bit, and learned how to reset the trigger consistently during recoil. I feel as though all of my prior concerns about the pistol's accuracy were nothing more than operator issues---that is to say, it may not be the most accurate pistol known to man, but I feel it was/is accurate ENOUGH for my purposes.

Not suggesting that my issues are yours; just sharing my short journey of discovery.

In any event, I'm moving out of the MP platform now mainly because I am excited about learning to master the DA/SA trigger. But I am glad that I had the experience of struggling and then taking a deep breath to explore cause & effect after refocusing on fundamentals to get past the issues.

[spinmove_]

I hear you. Almost a year ago, I'd just about convinced myself that my MP9FS was showing accuracy issues, as my groups were decent but I was seeing frequent odd flyers. Well, I doubled-down on my fundamentals and realized that I had been applying them poorly or inconsistently.

After changing the backstrap size down to the SMALL from the MEDIUM, I worked dry-fire like crazy, I forced myself to fall in love with the front sight (never taking my eyes off it), I changed my grip a bit, and learned how to reset the trigger consistently during recoil. I feel as though all of my prior concerns about the pistol's accuracy were nothing more than operator issues---that is to say, it may not be the most accurate pistol known to man, but I feel it was/is accurate ENOUGH for my purposes.

Not suggesting that my issues are yours; just sharing my short journey of discovery.

In any event, I'm moving out of the MP platform now mainly because I am excited about learning to master the DA/SA trigger. But I am glad that I had the experience of struggling and then taking a deep breath to explore cause & effect after refocusing on fundamentals to get past the issues.

I haven't hardly done much longer range (25yds and out) shooting with my M&P9 yet to determine if it does have the accuracy issues seen in a lot of other samples. It just troubles me that it has been "a thing" for as long as it has and we're still not entirely sure if S&W has rectified it yet. I get that A LOT of people aren't ever going to get the the same amount of precision out of it that other much better shooters would, but that's not excuse to not fix the issue. Especially when you consider that NONE of the other M&P pistols in their entire lineup exhibit none of the same issues. And it's one of their most popular M&P pistols. Just kills me. And again, my M&P9 might very well be just fine. It's just that if something happens to it and I end up having to replace it or get another one as a spare, then I have to worry about if I do end up having the accuracy issues with the new one. Seems like a horrible issue to have to potentially deal with down the road when I'm more heavily invested in the platform at that point.

Another factor in me toying with the idea of ditching my M&P is the fact that I originally wanted a polymer pistol for carry. As previously stated, I had a G19. I had perceived issues with it (again, I proved to myself that they were false) and sold it to fund the M&P9 as I thought it was the safer bet to move to despite it being larger than the G19 and P320. I largely didn't go with the P320 at the time because it was still too new and long term reliability hadn't been established yet. I think the P320 is still in the process of establishing itself as reliable as other platforms out there, but from what I've been reading and seeing it's keeping pace and keeping pace very well. I still need to give the decision time, but the more I think about it, the more I'm logically thinking a G19 or P320 would be a better way to go. My M&P9 continues to grow on me, but so does the idea of a more compact pistol built more for what I want it for with no major potential for having accuracy concerns in any given sample.

As for the DA/SA trigger, I have a love hate relationship with it. I get the concept and I love the SA part, but that DA can foul you up if you're not having a great day. I'm sure that boils down to practice and training and I get better and better with my P229-1 as I shoot it more, but dammit if I don't get ever more better on a striker trigger because of it as well. Best of luck to you on that. What DA/SA pistol are you moving to?

[ubervic]

As for the DA/SA trigger, I have a love hate relationship with it. I get the concept and I love the SA part, but that DA can foul you up if you're not having a great day. I'm sure that boils down to practice and training and I get better and better with my P229-1 as I shoot it more, but dammit if I don't get ever more better on a striker trigger because of it as well. Best of luck to you on that. What DA/SA pistol are you moving to?

Thanks. I'm going to dip my toes in the DA/SA waters with the Sig SP2022. With its decent trigger, acceptable sights and grip, and relatively low cost, it fits my needs for a good start on the DA/SA path.

Good luck to you as well.

[spinmove_]

Thanks. I'm going to dip my toes in the DA/SA waters with the Sig SP2022. With its decent trigger, acceptable sights and grip, and relatively low cost, it fits my needs for a good start on the DA/SA path.

Good luck to you as well.

I actually happen to have an SP2022 in .40S&W/.357SIG. It's definitely a fantastic pistol for starting down the DA/SA road, and, as you stated, low cost to boot. I think you'll really like it. I would, however, caution you on the slide lock/release lever on that particular model. It sticks out noticeably further than the classic P series Sigs and can easily be held down if you're not careful. I had to retrain where my right hand thumb went in order to not hold it down. Other than that, fantastic shooter.

[ASH556]

It's the lack of consistency in the M&P's from the factory that makes them a no-go in my opinion. Unless you have unlimited coin and just love the things to pieces and are willing to invest an additional $300 in each one to make sure it shoots well, then I'd move on. I know I sure did. I followed a very similar path as you've described back in 2012. I sold my years old Gen 3 Glock 19 and bought a pair of M&P's (better ergonomics, was sick of fighting the grip angle/short grip on the 19). One of my M&P's shot great and the other would not. I sent the bad one back to Smith 3 different times and each time they'd just drop a new barrel in the gun and send it back; no improvement. I've documented it on this site, you can find it if you search my posts, but for summary I'll post some pics below. After 2 years of messing with the stupid things, I got wise and went back to Glock. I picked up a pair of Gen 4 G17's in February of 2014 and in the last 20 months I've wrung them out pretty well and learned quite a lot. It's tough to improve your pistol accuracy when you can outshoot the pistol and that was definitely the case with my M&P's.

I did pick up a new sample back in May because I completed the M&P Armorer's course and was able to buy one at a significant discount. I shot that one a little (20 rounds) to see how it was accuracy wise, but then sold it. Again, pics below to show its performance. Could I have done better with an Apex trigger and better sights? Maybe, but with the overall inconsistency from Smith on these guns, it's not an investment I was willing to make.

Just 2 weeks ago I picked up one of the new Gray Frame Gen4 Glock 19's to use as a carry gun. The grip angle on the Gen 4 19's is much easier for me to work with than the Gen 3 I used to have. I still have to work a little harder to shoot the G19 well, but it's definitely do-able and it conceals better than the 17. Based on the 150 rounds I've fired thus far, mine seems promising.

My pair of M&P's accuracy comparison offhand @ 25 yds:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7445/12640847483_93f2233780_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/kg2Dyg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/kg2Dyg) by ASH556 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/), on Flickr

May 2015 Production M&P, offhand @ 25 yds:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/E18C7733-566D-4375-98C2-AF2FD4474789.jpg

Stock Gen 4 Glock 17, offhand @ 25 yds:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/EA224C08-0C68-4E95-8AAD-92E341EF3C0F.jpg

New stock Gen 4 Glock 19, offhand @ 25 yds, draw from concealment (JMCK V3 under a polo):
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/F680A93D-39AA-4EFE-A214-C154BBD89342_1.jpg

[spinmove_]

It's the lack of consistency in the M&P's from the factory that makes them a no-go in my opinion. Unless you have unlimited coin and just love the things to pieces and are willing to invest an additional $300 in each one to make sure it shoots well, then I'd move on. I know I sure did. I followed a very similar path as you've described back in 2012. I sold my years old Gen 3 Glock 19 and bought a pair of M&P's (better ergonomics, was sick of fighting the grip angle/short grip on the 19). One of my M&P's shot great and the other would not. I sent the bad one back to Smith 3 different times and each time they'd just drop a new barrel in the gun and send it back; no improvement. I've documented it on this site, you can find it if you search my posts, but for summary I'll post some pics below. After 2 years of messing with the stupid things, I got wise and went back to Glock. I picked up a pair of Gen 4 G17's in February of 2014 and in the last 20 months I've wrung them out pretty well and learned quite a lot. It's tough to improve your pistol accuracy when you can outshoot the pistol and that was definitely the case with my M&P's.

I did pick up a new sample back in May because I completed the M&P Armorer's course and was able to buy one at a significant discount. I shot that one a little (20 rounds) to see how it was accuracy wise, but then sold it. Again, pics below to show its performance. Could I have done better with an Apex trigger and better sights? Maybe, but with the overall inconsistency from Smith on these guns, it's not an investment I was willing to make.

Just 2 weeks ago I picked up one of the new Gray Frame Gen4 Glock 19's to use as a carry gun. The grip angle on the Gen 4 19's is much easier for me to work with than the Gen 3 I used to have. I still have to work a little harder to shoot the G19 well, but it's definitely do-able and it conceals better than the 17. Based on the 150 rounds I've fired thus far, mine seems promising.

My pair of M&P's accuracy comparison offhand @ 25 yds:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7445/12640847483_93f2233780_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/kg2Dyg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/kg2Dyg) by ASH556 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/), on Flickr

May 2015 Production M&P, offhand @ 25 yds:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/E18C7733-566D-4375-98C2-AF2FD4474789.jpg

Stock Gen 4 Glock 17, offhand @ 25 yds:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/EA224C08-0C68-4E95-8AAD-92E341EF3C0F.jpg

New stock Gen 4 Glock 19, offhand @ 25 yds, draw from concealment (JMCK V3 under a polo):
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/F680A93D-39AA-4EFE-A214-C154BBD89342_1.jpg

Ugh, that's frustrating. Thanks for the data point. Still kicking myself to no end for getting rid of that damn G19...

[GNRPowdeR]

Counter-point to those showing frustration... I carried a 1911 for around 10 yrs, but was wanting to find something with more capacity and something I'd find my students bringing to classes.

I tried Glock, XD, and M&P. The M&P won my business due to being able to shoot it better from the factory, ergo / family support network, and the ability to fit it with the Apex FSS. Reason I consider the FSS so important? It makes the trigger mimic a 1911 and that was helpful for my transition. With this information, I purchased an M&P FS9 in early 2014.

Since then I've shot several steel matches at 15ish yards plus graduated the Rangemaster Instructor Dev Course, which has two courses of fire (one being the FBI) that must be rated at / above 90%. My recorded scores (you shoot each twice without practice on the third day) for the two CoF were in the +98% range, while my low scores were +96%.

I've purchased a few more M&Ps since the initial and each have had the single dimple on the barrel, while I've seen some newer that have had two dimples... The barrels I've seen have trouble have been without these dimples. Again, these are my experiences...

[HCM]

Counter-point to those showing frustration... I carried a 1911 for around 10 yrs, but was wanting to find something with more capacity and something I'd find my students bringing to classes.

I tried Glock, XD, and M&P. The M&P won my business due to being able to shoot it better from the factory, ergo / family support network, and the ability to fit it with the Apex FSS. Reason I consider the FSS so important? It makes the trigger mimic a 1911 and that was helpful for my transition. With this information, I purchased an M&P FS9 in early 2014.

Since then I've shot several steel matches at 15ish yards plus graduated the Rangemaster Instructor Dev Course, which has two courses of fire (one being the FBI) that must be rated at / above 90%. My recorded scores (you shoot each twice without practice on the third day) for the two CoF were in the +98% range, while my low scores were +96%.

I've purchased a few more M&Ps since the initial and each have had the single dimple on the barrel, while I've seen some newer that have had two dimples... The barrels I've seen have trouble have been without these dimples. Again, these are my experiences...

While Smith has made improvements in M&P 9 quality and accuracy lately, it's my understanding the dimples are simply hardness testing marks. I have an early 2007 vintage 9 FS and an 08/15 production 9FS both will shoot about 3-4" at 25 yards about the same as a Gen 3 Glock. I had another 9FS in between which was ok to 15 yards but turned out shot patterns at 25 yards.

[spinmove_]

While Smith has made improvements in M&P 9 quality and accuracy lately, it's my understanding the dimples are simply hardness testing marks. I have an early 2007 vintage 9 FS and an 08/15 production 9FS both will shoot about 3-4" at 25 yards about the same as a Gen 3 Glock. I had another 9FS in between which was ok to 15 yards but turned out shot patterns at 25 yards.

Any recommendations regarding checking a future M&P9 for accuracy issues before purchasing? From what I understand the majority of the issues come from barrel and/or slide fit. Barrel quality being the next determining factor after that (again, to my understanding from reading reports here). I guess I'm wondering if there is any noticeable sloppiness in the fit anywhere that would show obvious issues.

[Kyle Reese]

Any recommendations regarding checking a future M&P9 for accuracy issues before purchasing? From what I understand the majority of the issues come from barrel and/or slide fit. Barrel quality being the next determining factor after that (again, to my understanding from reading reports here). I guess I'm wondering if there is any noticeable sloppiness in the fit anywhere that would show obvious issues.

At the gunshop? Not really. It's a roll of the dice once you step onto the firing line, unfortunately.

[JHC]

Any recommendations regarding checking a future M&P9 for accuracy issues before purchasing? From what I understand the majority of the issues come from barrel and/or slide fit. Barrel quality being the next determining factor after that (again, to my understanding from reading reports here). I guess I'm wondering if there is any noticeable sloppiness in the fit anywhere that would show obvious issues.

Check out the thread here regarding the Apex barrels for the M&P. It's been active lately. In there I saw a post from Randy Lee describing the variations in M&P manufacturing that Apex barrels had to factor in. There seemed to be some frame to slide fit variables that might leave you wondering which of those two major components was the problem.

I remember thinking when I saw his post - I doubt General Dynamics is going to swoop in and fix all that. It sounded like building new everything to manufacture true to spec pistols.

[HCM]

Any recommendations regarding checking a future M&P9 for accuracy issues before purchasing? From what I understand the majority of the issues come from barrel and/or slide fit. Barrel quality being the next determining factor after that (again, to my understanding from reading reports here). I guess I'm wondering if there is any noticeable sloppiness in the fit anywhere that would show obvious issues.

There is no easy answer to this and I believe there has been more than one cause to these issues as well. Smith & Wesson changed the twist rate on the barrels a few years ago, and I believe they have also quietly addressed the issues with some of the 9FS slides becoming warped during the melanite process. I believe this is why you're seeing some of the law-enforcement contract nine FS coming with a PVD finish rather then the melanite. As for the other issues regarding barrel lock up and locking block/slide to frame fit, Randy Lee does a much better job explaining those then I can.

Echoing JHC's comments, Smith & Wesson teamed up with General Dynamics for their MHS bid because of general dynamics mastery of the military selection and contracting processes. I do not believe General Dynamics is doing any type of engineering or technical work. Smith & Wesson's engineers are certainly capable of making an M&P which will meet the MHS accuracy requirements if they choose to do so. The basic design of the M&P is solid. Smith & Wesson can and will address these issues if and when they have sufficient motivation to do so. For right now, it is in Smith & Wesson's economic and business interest to continue doing what they are doing, which is to compete with Glock on price rather than increasing their cost per unit to make quality more consistent.

Larry Vickers said it best, " The M&P 9 mm could've been one of the best guns on the market if Smith and Wesson was willing to increase the unit production cost by $50 per gun".

If producing a more consistent and accurate handgun is what is necessary to get the military MHS contract then that is what Smith & Wesson will do. The question is will that translate into higher quality and consistency across the board for civilian and law-enforcement guns as well?

There are no guarantees.if we look at A.R. 15 manufacturers, colt runs one production line using the same parts and the same quality control checks for all of their guns. Rock river and bushmaster on the other hand, have produced rifles meeting the military TDP standard, including all quality-control checks on every rifle for law-enforcement contracts such as the FBI/DEA contract and the Texas DPS contract respectively. However, that has not translated into either company maintaining those standards for their civilian sale guns.

[spinmove_]

There is no easy answer to this and I believe there has been more than one cause to these issues as well. Smith & Wesson changed the twist rate on the barrels a few years ago, and I believe they have also quietly addressed the issues with some of the 9FS slides becoming warped during the melanite process. I believe this is why you're seeing some of the law-enforcement contract nine FS coming with a PVD finish rather then the melanite. As for the other issues regarding barrel lock up and locking block/slide to frame fit, Randy Lee does a much better job explaining those then I can.

Echoing JHC's comments, Smith & Wesson teamed up with General Dynamics for their MHS bid because of general dynamics mastery of the military selection and contracting processes. I do not believe General Dynamics is doing any type of engineering or technical work. Smith & Wesson's engineers are certainly capable of making an M&P which will meet the MHS accuracy requirements if they choose to do so. The basic design of the M&P is solid. Smith & Wesson can and will address these issues if and when they have sufficient motivation to do so. For right now, it is in Smith & Wesson's economic and business interest to continue doing what they are doing, which is to compete with Glock on price rather than increasing their cost per unit to make quality more consistent.

Larry Vickers said it best, " The M&P 9 mm could've been one of the best guns on the market if Smith and Wesson was willing to increase the unit production cost by $50 per gun".

If producing a more consistent and accurate handgun is what is necessary to get the military MHS contract then that is what Smith & Wesson will do. The question is will that translate into higher quality and consistency across the board for civilian and law-enforcement guns as well?

There are no guarantees.if we look at A.R. 15 manufacturers, colt runs one production line using the same parts and the same quality control checks for all of their guns. Rock river and bushmaster on the other hand, have produced rifles meeting the military TDP standard, including all quality-control checks on every rifle for law-enforcement contracts such as the FBI/DEA contract and the Texas DPS contract respectively. However, that has not translated into either company maintaining those standards for their civilian sale guns.

I guess that's what irritates me most about this situation is that S&W appear to know of the problems and random QC issues, but because it hurts their overall bottom line, they won't correct the source of the problem. Furthermore they continue to randomly and quietly fix issues without publicly acknowledging the issue, so it's hard to tell if and when they've made changes and if they remain consistent with those changes or not. I dunno, it just seems like they haven't handled the situation all that well.

Shenanigans like that make me want to find something else, but posts from the likes of KevinB and DocGKR in another thread I started make me think twice. I suppose there are pros and cons to just about every firearm out there and this appears to be one of the cons of this one. There appear to be random issues with just about everyone else as well so it is what it is I guess.

Like I said earlier, I guess I'll just deal with the issue as it comes. At least now I know how to deal with the issue when it does decide to come about.

[Kimura]

I guess that's what irritates me most about this situation is that S&W appear to know of the problems and random QC issues, but because it hurts their overall bottom line, they won't correct the source of the problem. Furthermore they continue to randomly and quietly fix issues without publicly acknowledging the issue, so it's hard to tell if and when they've made changes and if they remain consistent with those changes or not. I dunno, it just seems like they haven't handled the situation all that well.

Shenanigans like that make me want to find something else, but posts from the likes of KevinB and DocGKR in another thread I started make me think twice. I suppose there are pros and cons to just about every firearm out there and this appears to be one of the cons of this one. There appear to be random issues with just about everyone else as well so it is what it is I guess.

Like I said earlier, I guess I'll just deal with the issue as it comes. At least now I know how to deal with the issue when it does decide to come about.


It really doesn't matter what anyone else says or thinks; if you're unhappy with the gun for whatever reason, get something else. This post and your posts in the other thread sound like you're unhappy with S&W or the gun or both. If so, sell it and buy something else. The decision to change doesn't have to meet Doc's or anyone's expectations other than yours. They don't have to shoot the gun, you do. And it seems as if you would be happier and in turn shoot more with another pistol. Since it isn't an issued weapon, you really don't have to live with it. So if it bothers you, nothing is really stopping you from changing.

I learned awhile back that what works for me and works for others are not necessarily the same things. I don't really care what their experience level is versus what mine is, it still doesn't work for me. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[spinmove_]

It really doesn't matter what anyone else says or thinks; if you're unhappy with the gun for whatever reason, get something else. This post and your posts in the other thread sound like you're unhappy with S&W or the gun or both. If so, sell it and buy something else. The decision to change doesn't have to meet Doc's or anyone's expectations other than yours. They don't have to shoot the gun, you do. And it seems as if you would be happier and in turn shoot more with another pistol. Since it isn't an issued weapon, you really don't have to live with it. So if it bothers you, nothing is really stopping you from changing.

I learned awhile back that what works for me and works for others are not necessarily the same things. I don't really care what their experience level is versus what mine is, it still doesn't work for me. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I agree with you to a point. I really don't have to listen to anyone else and I can just buy and shoot whatever I want. However, I know myself and I know I have a tendency to over-analyze things. Getting outside advice and thoughts helps me keep that in check sometimes. At this point I think I will hang on to my M&P9 unless I genuinely find something wrong with it. I do actually like the gun. I do actually enjoy shooting it. I just like to think things through and weigh my options before moving from one platform to another and lose money in the process.

[spinmove_]

So I finally got a chance to do some accuracy testing yesterday with my M&P9. I'll preface the results by saying that I did NOT have access to a rest. I am definitely not what you would call an accomplished bullseye shooter. Having said that, I do know my limitations and what I can do with other handguns that I own relative to what I saw today. The loads that I used were 115gr. Freedom Munitions FMJ, 124gr. Gold Dots, and 147 Winchester Ranger T (RA9T).

The following picture is the IPSC target that I used for all 3 loads that I tested.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/spinmove_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102712_zpst16xzgbj.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/spinmove_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102712_zpst16xzgbj.jpg.html)

147gr. RA9T
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/spinmove_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102817_zpszcgyqz90.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/spinmove_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102817_zpszcgyqz90.jpg.html)

124gr. Gold Dot
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/spinmove_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102755_zpszkh0ucgf.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/spinmove_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102755_zpszkh0ucgf.jpg.html)

115gr. Freedom Munitions FMJ
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/spinmove_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102736_zpsbbhkapb3.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/spinmove_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102736_zpsbbhkapb3.jpg.html)

Given what I'm seeing here, I can draw the following conclusions:

1.) I need training and practice.
2.) This particular sample does not appear to be exhibiting long range accuracy issues.
3.) Big Dots are a bit of a pain in the ass if I NEED to make a precise shot at distance.

Based on these results here, I've decided to keep the gun and focus on making myself a better shooter.

[23JAZ]

So I finally got a chance to do some accuracy testing yesterday with my M&P9. I'll preface the results by saying that I did NOT have access to a rest. I am definitely not what you would call an accomplished bullseye shooter. Having said that, I do know my limitations and what I can do with other handguns that I own relative to what I saw today. The loads that I used were 115gr. Freedom Munitions FMJ, 124gr. Gold Dots, and 147 Winchester Ranger T (RA9T).

The following picture is the IPSC target that I used for all 3 loads that I tested.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/spinmove_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102712_zpst16xzgbj.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/spinmove_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102712_zpst16xzgbj.jpg.html)

147gr. RA9T
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/spinmove_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102817_zpszcgyqz90.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/spinmove_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102817_zpszcgyqz90.jpg.html)

124gr. Gold Dot
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/spinmove_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102755_zpszkh0ucgf.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/spinmove_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102755_zpszkh0ucgf.jpg.html)

115gr. Freedom Munitions FMJ
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/spinmove_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102736_zpsbbhkapb3.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/spinmove_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151025_102736_zpsbbhkapb3.jpg.html)

Given what I'm seeing here, I can draw the following conclusions:

1.) I need training and practice.
2.) This particular sample does not appear to be exhibiting long range accuracy issues.
3.) Big Dots are a bit of a pain in the ass if I NEED to make a precise shot at distance.

Based on these results here, I've decided to keep the gun and focus on making myself a better shooter.

What distance were you shooting at? I applaud you for saying your going to focus on making yourself a better shooter, but why make things harder than they need to be and stay with a gun known to have accuracy issues? I had the same problems with my MP9 FS, dumped it for a Gen 4 Glock 19 and promised myself I would touch another pistol for at least a year. After 12 months I saw a world of difference in my accuracy. Yes you will probably see a world of difference in your accuracy if you stay with the MP that long but it sounds like doubt has already set in with the MP and that will eat away at you over time. IMHO of course.

[DocGKR]

When shooting for accuracy while assessing a pistol at 25 or 50 yds, you will likely want to use something like an NRA B8 target: http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57&d=1306683559

[spinmove_]

What distance were you shooting at? I applaud you for saying your going to focus on making yourself a better shooter, but why make things harder than they need to be and stay with a gun known to have accuracy issues? I had the same problems with my MP9 FS, dumped it for a Gen 4 Glock 19 and promised myself I would touch another pistol for at least a year. After 12 months I saw a world of difference in my accuracy. Yes you will probably see a world of difference in your accuracy if you stay with the MP that long but it sounds like doubt has already set in with the MP and that will eat away at you over time. IMHO of course.

The distance was 25yds. I, unfortunately, didn't have time yesterday to do individual B8 targets for each load. But, again, taking what I know of my current abilities with other pistols that I have that do not have accuracy issues, I was seeing pretty much the exact same performance. Given the results in my last post, this reinstates my confidence in my particular sample. As such, I am moving forward in improving myself and not worrying about the hardware.

[RJ]

Given what I'm seeing here, I can draw the following conclusions:

1.) I need training and practice.
2.) This particular sample does not appear to be exhibiting long range accuracy issues.
3.) Big Dots are a bit of a pain in the ass if I NEED to make a precise shot at distance.

Based on these results here, I've decided to keep the gun and focus on making myself a better shooter.

Nice shooting.

I'd say the above is a great plan.