XS Big dot sights

[Geohans]

Searched but couldn't isolate anything.

Please point me to threads, or let me know how you have liked yours. Thanks.

[JV_]

I'd be surprised if you found many folks who prefer Big Dots over other setups, like:

Trijicon HD Sights
Hackatorn Sights
A standard front sight, painted orange (My Vote Goes Here)

Here is one thread:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1326-Poor-Vision-and-Sights

[LittleLebowski]

I had some. Too big for good shots, no faster nor more accurate up close. Worthless. Given away.

[TAP]

I used a set for about a year and a half on a G19. I always had a hard time with vertical alignment of the front sight to back V. I'm definitely glad that I ditched them and moved back to more conventional sights.

[jetfire]

In daylight shooting, they don't offer any advantages over traditional sights for close targets and are at a significant disadvantage for long range or tight shots.

For night shooting, they don't offer any advantage over Heinie Straight-8s. I have a pair on a gun that I don't ever carry, and spent quite some time fooling around with them at Gunsite a while back.

I will say that if you have someone who is going to shoot their gun once a year for maybe a box of ammo, they'd be a good choice. But if you're properly serious about pistol shooting, traditional notch and post is the way to go.

[Al T.]

Have a set on a G26 where they seem to work OK. Biggest issue for me is that the sets I purchased last year seem to be off mechanically. Contacted AO and had quite a negative customer service experience.

I ditched the rear sight on my G17 and replaced it with Novaks Ghost rear sight. That gives you more visual reference and as my eyes age, may be my best bet. In the mean time, I'm OK with the standard sights.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9672/Product/TRITIUM_GHOST_SIGHT

[NickA]

No personal experience, but I've been in two classes now where people had trouble making low-probability shots with them at 5-7 yards. Not saying it can't be done but seems like it would take a lot more work than traditional sights.
IMO could be useful on something like a j-frame or other BUG, but not much else.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[TCinVA]

I think a handy way to describe them is sights for people who don't know how to use sights. (Note: We've all been there...nobody sprang from the womb knowing how to use a handgun well. It takes time and effort, but if you put in the time and the effort it yields benefits)

Frequently the rave reviews from people online who claim to have seen improvement with them are written by people who had no real visual control of the pistol before and found that a giant lollipop stuck on the end of the gun gave at least some vague awareness of where the gun was indexed which improved their ability to guide bullets into a high-percentage target with some intelligence. Once someone learns what proper visual control is (and their standard of acceptable accuracy narrows) they tend to find that the lollipop is quite hard to use with precision either up close or at distance and that attempting to use them precisely is slower and far less efficient than using more traditional sight arrangements.

Claims that they are "gunfighting" sights that perform awesome in a high-stress perform-or-die environment but their merits cannot be measured in a lower stress environment where nobody gets killed are, of course, nonsense.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

I have them, and for about 2 years I did very well with them.

Something changed earlier this year, and I wasn't able to shoot with them very well after that. Could be my eyes, could be I had been practicing exclusively with Big Dots before and when I started using my AA conversion kit I got used to the more traditional sight picture...regardless, I just had trouble focusing on them.

I went from hitting 4x6 index cards at 50 feet to can't hit shit at 7 yd, so I changed sights to Ameriglo I-Dots, which ended up being a clusterfuck with the front the wrong height.

I used the sight calculator, found I needed a shorter front, then did some more figuring and realized the BD front was the right height and width to use with the AG I-Dot U notch rear, put the XS Big Dot on with the I-Dot rear and holy shit, it's working for me better than either of them did alone.

My customer service experience with XS was very positive. My sight worked it's way loose, and when I asked for a new screw, and told them I had some thread locker which seemed to be in the sight's threads crusted in their, I had a new front in my hands in 3 days.

Are they for everyone? No.
Can they work if you put in the effort? Yes.

[Geohans]

Excellent info, thanks.

[David Armstrong]

My experience runs with Mitchell. I’ve done very well with them, and I’ve got to wonder when others say they are only for folks who don’t know what they are doing. Ed Head, Bill Laughridge, Dave Spaulding, even Jeff Cooper have all spoken highly of the XS sights, and I think most of them know something about shooting and sights. Heck, I’ve used them successfully and I know I’m not exactly a raw rookie. I’m about to put a set on my Glock 19, in fact. When my eyes were good traditional sights were fine, but with the eyes going bad I have found the XS Sights to work at least as well as anything else I have tried and better than most. Am I doing head shots at 50 yards with them? No, but I’m getting solid, tightly grouped CoM hits at speed at 20 yards with them. And IIRC the IRC was won with an XS equipped revolver this year, and I know that anyone shooting at that level has to have something going for them.

FWIW, I think a lot of the problem with XS is that they don’t really take the time to explain how to use the system to get maximum efficiency and effectiveness from them. I know it really made a difference for me when I actually got to sit down with Ashley Emerson and he gave me a primer on the system and how it should be used.

Can't speak for everyone, but for my eyes nothing has seemed to work as well as the XS sights, so I'm slowly converting most of my work guns to that setup.

[Dagga Boy]

Sights are very personal. I have X/S's on a couple of guns because they work great on those particular guns. I have taken them off other guns I tried them on. I can (as can most serious shooters) outshoot them, so I prefer 10-8's or Heinie's. Anyone who puts in the work to be able to properly read a sight picture and adjust their speed and focus to range will have no need for them, and be handicapped with continued use.

With that said, I was teaching at a class recently and watched a shooter in his mid 60's wearing some serious glasses simply SHRED with them on a Bowen Custom revolver......they obviously worked for him. He would have punked a lot of young shooters with plastic semi auto's and cool guy sights. For people with eye issues, they are often a Godsend (especially combined with a large conventional U cut rear sight). For those that don't shoot very often, they work well. I had a bunch of "regular" street cops shooting one of my guns with them and they did really well with them. They work especially well on close range fast moving targets in low light.....where a lot of gunfights happen. I like them on my dedicated nightstand gun. I can find the thing in the dark, and they will work fine until I can get to my carbine or shotgun. They also work well on small revolvers. I like them on my Ruger LCR..........but I don't carry 5 shots as primary pistols, so in its role as a back up, they are a good choice. Because of some eye issues I have that are a combination of age and head and eye injuries, they are the only sights I can shoot both eyes open.

Ideally, you can shoot some X/S's against some higher end conventional sights and make an educated choice based on YOUR vision, and YOUR shooting experience and training background, as to what works the best for you.

[ToddG]

When you talk about XS sights on a revo, are you talking about front and rear or just an XS dot? I don't doubt folks can run an XS front adequately as long as they use a rear sight that gives better feedback than the standard XS shallow wedge. I'm not the only one who has spoken to Ashley Express/XS over the years asking them to offer a better rear sight as an option.

Really, the Hackathorn/i-dot and Trijicon HD combos both do exactly that with the added benefit of a traditional square front sight top edge for precision work.

[rsa-otc]

, you'll inevitably be told that a pistol is solely for fighting your way back to a rifle.

TC;

I first heard this statement attributed to Clint Smith. While normally I'm in tune with much of what he says, this is not one of those times.

And truth be told, many probably took this statement out of context and ran with it. One of the reasons I belong to only 4 gun forums and stay far away from the rest as possible. The erg to commit suicide was to much.:mad:

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I have the XS Big Dot system on a couple of guns, as well as a several of the popular sights (Warren's, Sevigny's, I-Dot, Hackathorn, I-Dot Pro, Heinie's, Defoor) and I can shoot them well. Given the choice, I like a coarse, black sight, like the Warren/Sevigny/Heinie type. But, if your fundamentals are good, it isn't difficult to get quick hits out to 35 yards or so at the same speed/cadence as a conventional P&N type sight. I have 20/10 binocular vision, and that might effect my preference. Chris Barrett of Barrett Firearms Manufacturing is a CRACK shot with Big Dots on a G17. He used them to great effect in a Vickers class last year where a few of the members here were in attendance (me, GS and TC).

Also, I HAVE attended specific, "Big Dot," training from XS. It was a lecture on the theory of the sights, and how to use them. Throughout the lecture, blue guns were distributed to the crowd, fitted with Big Dot Sights. Students were allowed to, "aim in," on the speaker and change their focus from the sight to the speaker and vice versa. One of the, "big," selling points of the system is that even if you are target focused, the front sight is very visible and evident. How that plays into the dynamics of the engagement though, probably has more to do with the shooter than it does with the sight. As others have said, a good index obviates the need for sights of any kind at the close distances that the XS proponents claim is their, "sweet spot."

I have also used XS equipped simuntions guns in FOF work, and they do work as claimed, in both, "normal," lighting and low-light scenarios...I have also used simuntions guns that are completely devoid of sights at all, and they too worked as claimed, although it is harder to make follow up shots in low-light.

With all that said, I use Warren/Sevigny's or I-Dot's on my carry guns. I've thought about using a Big Dot equipped gun for IDPA/IPSC one of these days, but I've just not got around to it yet.

[ToddG]

I ran an XS sight (Ashley Express at the time) for a while while working at Beretta. I spent a significant amount of time practicing with them. The concept appealed to me and I genuinely wanted to become an adopter and apostle. After about a month of serious training -- which for me back then probably meant somewhere around 3,000 rounds -- I took them to the Arizona State IDPA Championship. The match confirmed what I'd been seeing in practice. The rear sight simply doesn't provide enough feedback to make truly fast (and callable) shots. The coarseness of the sight picture is such that even at relatively close distances I was dropping points without realizing it.

Putting the dot on the target is easy. Putting the dot on a specific part of the target and getting reliable enough feedback to call shots at speed is something altogether different.

[Dagga Boy]

"One of the, "big," selling points of the system is that even if you are target focused, they sight is very visible and evident. How that plays into the dynamics of the engagement though, probably has more to do with the shooter than it does with the sight."

This is where I see the big benefit for most shooters. THe reality is that most people don't really train. Even the "enthusiasts" really only go to the range and shoot, but aren't really training. Back when I was able to do a lot of first hand, first person, and in-depth analysis of officer involved shootings, a significant trend emerged. Those who visually verified that their sights were on target prior to firing got hits, those who target focused and never visually verified their sights missed-period. This is with police officers who get a little more training than average folks, and are far more adept at working under stress. What the Big Dots do is that they make it very easy to at least pick up a front sight and help to visually verify that the shooter is on and to force a flash sight picture on those who have not trained enough to do it on their own. For those who train extensively, this is not as big of an issue. For me, X/S sights let me shoot both eyes open, and are the only sights I can do that with. It is a benefit, which is why I have them on some of my guns, but not a requirement, which is why they aren't on all of my guns.

[JV_]

The RDS discussion has been split: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1763-RDS-on-a-SemiAuto

[JodyH]

I have no problems with XS Big Dots.
They have their advantages and disadvantages like any other sighting system.
I've shot sub 5 sec. FAST drills with Big Dots as well as made 50 yard 8" plate shots.
I will say that the Ameriglo Hackathorn and Trijicon HD sights are probably my favorite sighting system out there right now.
As fast and "in your face" as the Big Dots but with more precision.
If they'd only make the Hacks or HD's for H&K and Kahr I'd be set.

[HeadHunter]

About 3 years ago, I put up a challenge on another forum about using Big Dots at Rogers. One of their foremost proponents came to the School and tried to use them. That didn't work out too well.

[Rocket20_Ginsu]

I think XS sights have a place in learning to shoot, in the same way that training wheels have a place in learning how to ride a bike. I think that XS sights are a good tool to teach people to track their sights. With that dot and the indistinct rear your focus is drawn to the front sight. I definitely prefer traditional sights, and believe that you can call your shots much faster and more accurately with them, but the XS sights can be used as an effective tool in the process of learning how to do this.

GU

[ADKilla]

The only weapon I have them on is my BUG, the Ruger LCR, where I don't plan to shoot long distances. Otherwise all my primary pistols have better sights. Essentially it comes down to the fact that the top of the front XS sight is rounded. For accurate pistol shooting beyond 10yds, I put the target on the top of the blade and shoot. With the XS's rounded top, that's more challenging to get accurate hits.

[JV_]

I think XS sights have a place in learning to shoot, in the same way that training wheels have a place in learning how to ride a bike. I think that XS sights are a good tool to teach people to track their sights.

Why would you want to teach someone to use sights that they'll "outgrow", you can teach the same idea by painting the front sight - right? Painting the front sight also has the added benefit of helping them continue traditional sight alignment (notch and post) while working on tracking.

[JConn]

I think XS sights have a place in learning to shoot, in the same way that training wheels have a place in learning how to ride a bike. I think that XS sights are a good tool to teach people to track their sights. With that dot and the indistinct rear your focus is drawn to the front sight. I definitely prefer traditional sights, and believe that you can call your shots much faster and more accurately with them, but the XS sights can be used as an effective tool in the process of learning how to do this.

GU

It seems to me, and I've never shot with them just dry fired a little with them, that its like teaching someone to ride a bike by putting them on a tricycle. Sure they both have pedals and wheels but the skills required to operate them are different enough that riding the tricycle really wouldn't help you learn how to ride the bike.

[ToddG]

I've got to agree. While the "big dot" may help people learn to focus on the front sight, they're not learning how to "focus on the front sight while aligning it with the rear sight," and that's what sight alignment is all about.

[Rocket20_Ginsu]

Why would you want to teach someone to use sights that they'll "outgrow", you can teach the same idea by painting the front sight - right? Painting the front sight also has the added benefit of helping them continue traditional sight alignment (notch and post) while working on tracking.

I agree for most coordinated and teachable shooters it is unnecessary, allow me to clarify a bit. My "metaphor" was not a very good one, I do not think that XS sights are a necessary step in the process of learning to shoot like some people consider training wheels to be in learning how to ride a bike. I don't advocate the use XS sight or recommend that someone purchase them over a set of warrens / dawsons / heinie's etc; however, in my humble opinion, for an inexperienced shooter, if they are already on the gun they are not completely terrible either. If a shooter is extremely novice and has great difficulty tracking the sights through the firing process I believe that they can learn something from it because the big front and indistinct rear draws your eyes to that big dot. I don't know if this makes sense, but I think the sole benefit of this system is not in learning sight alignment (which is obviously very important to good marksmanship), it is in learning to maintain visual awareness before, during and after recoil so that when you do go to the superior post / notch sights you can see this relationship faster because you are better at seeing your front sight lift and settle.

GU