View Full Version : A $7,500 gun with feeding issues?!?!
I don't mean to be a d!&@ but, I have to wonder.
A $7,500 gun with feeding issues?!?!
Joe in PNG
10-09-2015, 08:38 PM
Shame. A person could have spent only $1,200 for a Kimber for the same level of non-performance.
Sal Picante
10-09-2015, 08:39 PM
Welcome to Open?
Kyle Reese
10-09-2015, 08:40 PM
Which gun are we talking about?
If I dropped that kind of coin on a handgun & it didn't shit Tiffany cuff links, I'd be very upset.
StraitR
10-09-2015, 08:41 PM
You communicate much like my wife, which is one of little information coupled with the expectation of mind reading. So, I'll answer you like I do her, "Um, no?"
BehindBlueI's
10-09-2015, 08:58 PM
Well, per Google, I'm guessing: http://pistol-training.com/archives/7792
GardoneVT
10-09-2015, 09:32 PM
Reminds me of BMWs that poop crankshafts under 10K miles.
theJanitor
10-09-2015, 10:13 PM
Reminds me of BMWs that poop crankshafts under 10K miles.
or HPFP's. When mine sh!t the bed at nine months on my 335i, the service guy said , "Wow, that lasted a long time". He wasn't trying to be funny
Dagga Boy
10-09-2015, 10:46 PM
Well, when a 1911 says 9x19 on the side......the fail has already started before the first nickel was spent. Just Say'in.
Well, when a 1911 says 9x19 on the side......the fail has already started before the first nickel was spent. Just Say'in.
Yeah, you're right but, for $7,500.00!!!!!!!!!!???????????? I don't care if it's chambered in .22lr, for that price it should run FLAWLESS ...and shit Tiffany cuff links!
Can somebody supply a link. I'm very very curious to see how someone ties up that much money in a gun. And just for the record, I had a range officer 9mm that ran great and had 1 less zero :)
or HPFP's. When mine sh!t the bed at nine months on my 335i, the service guy said , "Wow, that lasted a long time". He wasn't trying to be funny
Yeah, not exactly BMWs finest hour. At least they gave you a 100k mile warranty on the blasted things, last I heard. :(
fixer
10-10-2015, 07:56 AM
Given the OP's name, I'm wondering if this is supposed to be a Socratic pursuit of some kind...to figure out what the hell we are discussing?
Gray222
10-10-2015, 08:12 AM
If its a 1911....is anyone really surprised?
A $7,500 gun with feeding issues?!?!
Why, is this a problem?
23JAZ
10-10-2015, 10:12 AM
Yeah, you're right but, for $7,500.00!!!!!!!!!!???????????? I don't care if it's chambered in .22lr, for that price it should run FLAWLESS ...and shit Tiffany cuff links!
When did Todd ever say it had feeding issues?
When did Todd ever say it had feeding issues?
He didn't. We know because of Dr. Bill.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17219-Happy-PFestivus!-I-ve-got-a-lot-of-problems-with-you-people&p=353131&viewfull=1#post353131
BehindBlueI's
10-10-2015, 12:14 PM
Why, is this a problem?
It's a feature. Environmentally friendly, as it expels less lead.
jetfire
10-10-2015, 12:15 PM
I predict this thread isn't going to be long for this world.
I predict this thread isn't going to be long for this world.
Why, is there a problem with this thread?
It is about 4-5 on a 10 point troll assessment scale, reasonably well natured, so far no personals, and posted in the Romper right off. I predict a natural death after 3 pages as long as it is played without animosity.
So, back to the subject, after you've attained a certain amount of wealth and disposable income you stop giving a shit if 7 grand worth of heirloom doesn't run. You gift it to a charity or your friend and buy another sample. Alternatively, if you got no money, you get pissed if your hard earned cash purchased Hi-Point chokes. I continue to see nothing to be excited about here.
jetfire
10-10-2015, 12:29 PM
Call it a gut feeling.
Shame. A person could have spent only $1,200 for a Kimber for the same level of non-performance.
Ouch. This is painfully true.
Ouch. This is painfully true.
Yeah. That one stings.
I predict this thread isn't going to be long for this world.
You have been away too long at training, new world order here.
Back to the original question, the problem is $7,500 isn't the sweet spot for a 1911. You have a Wilson at $3,500 and then about $10,000 for a Rogers gun. Only half kidding.
Why, is there a problem with this thread?
It is about 4-5 on a 10 point troll assessment scale, reasonably well natured, so far no personals, and posted in the Romper right off. I predict a natural death after 3 pages as long as it is played without animosity.
So, back to the subject, after you've attained a certain amount of wealth and disposable income you stop giving a shit if 7 grand worth of heirloom doesn't run. You gift it to a charity or your friend and buy another sample. Alternatively, if you got no money, you get pissed if your hard earned cash purchased Hi-Point chokes. I continue to see nothing to be excited about here.
He's a complete troll. He's butthurt that I challenged BR's credentials, and that BR then decided to leave. I won't continue that saga, as it is no one's business here. If he continues to troll, I'm quite sure nothing will be done to him. As GJM said, it's a new world order.
He's a complete troll. He's butthurt that I challenged BR's credentials, and that BR then decided to leave. I won't continue that saga, as it is no one's business here. If he continues to troll, I'm quite sure nothing will be done to him. As GJM said, it's a new world order.
I understand some comments/questions can be considered inflammatory by some. I guess it's a matter of opinion. However, I assure everyone here that I am not trying to be a troll. I don't pretend to know how many rounds of ammo have been put through the pistol in question (we only know of 2,000) but, A $7,500.00 pistol shouldn't have feeding issues for a long, long time. I want to learn as much as I can and that's why I started this thread; to get people talking. Just sayin', not trolling.
I understand some comments/questions can be considered inflammatory by some. I guess it's a matter of opinion. However, I assure everyone here that I am not trying to be a troll. I don't pretend to know how many rounds of ammo have been put through the pistol in question (we only know of 2,000) but, A $7,500.00 pistol shouldn't have feeding issues for a long, long time. I want to learn as much as I can and that's why I started this thread; to get people talking. Just sayin', not trolling.
First rule of custom guns is that expensive and reliable are not necessarily related. What is the basis for your statement "a $7,500.00 pistol shouldn't have feeding issues for a long, long time?"
First rule of custom guns is that expensive and reliable are not necessarily related. What is the basis for your statement "a $7,500.00 pistol shouldn't have feeding issues for a long, long time?"
Until something wears on it and it causes the gun to behave unreliably. It makes sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong.
In my opinion, regardless of cost, "custom" and "reliable" should be related. Again, maybe I'm wrong.
ToddG
10-10-2015, 03:52 PM
"Mino" I have no idea who you are. I paid $0.00 for the gun that everyone seems to know more about than me. It runs perfectly fine at present. It had a very common issue with a particular type of magazine in a very particular condition (10+1, feeding top round in mag). The gun was modified to cure this problem. The magazine manufacturer also made a change to their mag which also addressed this issue.
I do not normally participate here anymore, mostly because of idiots like you. If you have any more questions about my life choices or how I do and don't spend my money, contact me directly. If you do not have my contact information, please feel free to fuck yourself in the ass with a sharp stick.
Thank you and have a day.
BehindBlueI's
10-10-2015, 03:57 PM
I like this forum.
"Mino" I have no idea who you are. I paid $0.00 for the gun that everyone seems to know more about than me. It runs perfectly fine at present. It had a very common issue with a particular type of magazine in a very particular condition (10+1, feeding top round in mag). The gun was modified to cure this problem. The magazine manufacturer also made a change to their mag which also addressed this issue.
I do not normally participate here anymore, mostly because of idiots like you. If you have any more questions about my life choices or how I do and don't spend my money, contact me directly. If you do not have my contact information, please feel free to fuck yourself in the ass with a sharp stick.
Thank you and have a day.
Thank you for your response. I'm glad you were able to get the problem fixed. About the magazine, I'm guessing you're talking about the Wilson Combat 9mm ETMs which they changed to be more like the Springfield/Metalform 9mm mags.
Mino,
I'm going to say this and then I'm done feeding. If you were not trolling, and simply wanted to learn more (for whatever reason that may or may not be legit or any of your business) you clearly have no idea how to start a thread. Maybe you should read for a long time before you post again. This is two posts you have written recently, basically lamenting the loss of BR. One in a very inappropriate way. That is called trolling. I'm not a staff member and I have no ability to ban anyone. I wouldn't normally respond to a person like you at all, but since no one else is going to even try to correct you, I did. We'll see how sincere you are very shortly.
breakingtime91
10-10-2015, 05:20 PM
This thread escalated quickly.
Mino,
I'm going to say this and then I'm done feeding. If you were not trolling, and simply wanted to learn more (for whatever reason that may or may not be legit or any of your business) you clearly have no idea how to start a thread. Maybe you should read for a long time before you post again. This is two posts you have written recently, basically lamenting the loss of BR. One in a very inappropriate way. That is called trolling. I'm not a staff member and I have no ability to ban anyone. I wouldn't normally respond to a person like you at all, but since no one else is going to even try to correct you, I did. We'll see how sincere you are very shortly.
1- OK. I have no idea how to start a thread. I accept that. I'm cool with that. My apologies to all.
2- The starting of this thread has nothing to do with lamenting BR's departure (although that sucks) but, rather inspired by something he noted as part of his "defense" post. It only has to do with a 1911 valued at $7,500.00 having feeding issues. I thought that sounded crazy. But, then again I'm not an expert, I am a student (or at least trying to be- if ya'll let me, lol).
3- What did I do that was so inappropriate? What did I say that makes me "a person like you"? What kind of person am I, sir? I think I'm a pretty good dude.☺
4- Every response to this thread was either funny/lighthearted or mean to the design of the 1911. SLG's, however, was the first response that was mean to me. Ouch. ToddG's response was amazing to me as it was both informative and funny-although-not-lighthearted in the sense that he answered my question and crushed me at the same time. Ouch again. I'm not offended. I suspect ToddG was alerted and basically fuming before he even logged on to answer the thread (I may be wrong or over-thinking here).
We are definitely living in a very judging and punishing society here, huh?
This thread escalated quickly.
If it set a record, I am so not proud of it.☺
Mino has super powers. He made The man himself post!
Mino has super powers. He made The man himself post!
Lol. Somehow I don't think it was me. I suspect someone cried to him. Again, I may be wrong.
I must say, I didn't want him to answer with such fury.
HopetonBrown
10-10-2015, 06:21 PM
4 causes of malfunctions, in order of probability: 1) The Shooter 2) The Magazine 3) The Ammo 4) The Gun.
SamAdams
10-10-2015, 06:33 PM
Wow - my first thought was "maybe its something in 50 BMG ".
I obviously have no idea how much can be spent on pistols.
My lowly Glocks are Really looking like bargains now.
TCinVA
10-10-2015, 07:03 PM
http://i.imgur.com/XujHL.gif
Well, when a 1911 says 9x19 on the side......the fail has already started before the first nickel was spent. Just Say'in.
***TC pets his CQB***
Don't listen to the big hairy man. You're special and I love you very much!
Fly320s
10-10-2015, 07:08 PM
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1- OK. I have no idea how to start a thread. I accept that. I'm cool with that. My apologies to all.
2- The starting of this thread has nothing to do with lamenting BR's departure (although that sucks) but, rather inspired by something he noted as part of his "defense" post. It only has to do with a 1911 valued at $7,500.00 having feeding issues. I thought that sounded crazy. But, then again I'm not an expert, I am a student (or at least trying to be- if ya'll let me, lol).
3- What did I do that was so inappropriate? What did I say that makes me "a person like you"? What kind of person am I, sir? I think I'm a pretty good dude.☺
4- Every response to this thread was either funny/lighthearted or mean to the design of the 1911. SLG's, however, was the first response that was mean to me. Ouch. ToddG's response was amazing to me as it was both informative and funny-although-not-lighthearted in the sense that he answered my question and crushed me at the same time. Ouch again. I'm not offended. I suspect ToddG was alerted and basically fuming before he even logged on to answer the thread (I may be wrong or over-thinking here).
We are definitely living in a very judging and punishing society here, huh?
If you are being sincere, than I stand corrected. Didn't seem that way, based on your recent posts.
"A person like you", meaning a troll. See above.
As far as crying to Todd, maybe your definition of crying is different than mine. That would seem to imply that you had hurt me in some way, and that Todd could do something about it. I speak to Todd almost every day. I tell him about many of the threads on here that I read or participate in. I try to get him back here every day. No luck. He decided to respond to this thread, since he probably felt the same way about your post as I did. His response certainly surprised me a bit, but he apparently was fairly offended by your post. You might take that as a clue.
Over the last thirty years, I have lost track of all the custom firearms I have had built. Most of them have been bolt action rifles and 1911 pistols. While you would expect a bolt action to be straightforward, many to most require tweaks. As to 1911 pistols, the further they deviate from steel, five inch, .45, the more likely they are to have issues. I do think Wilson Combat has done something special with their post production quality efforts to try to catch as many problems as possible, and I can't recall having to send a Wilson 1911 back.
If I fired the custom rifle guy and 1911 shop for every new firearm that needed attention, I would have been out of rifle and 1911 shops by now.
olstyn
10-10-2015, 10:05 PM
3- What did I do that was so inappropriate? What did I say that makes me "a person like you"? What kind of person am I, sir? I think I'm a pretty good dude.
Like SLG, I truly hope you're being sincere here, and not just trolling more. In that spirit, maybe I can provide some small amount of guidance:
Try to look at your posts in this thread from a different perspective. You started the thread in a cryptic manner, obliquely accusing Jason Burton of sending out a finished gun that didn't work, and you did so without any real evidence of that having been true. Even if we stipulate that the gun had a problem when Jason and Bill were talking about it, that in no way implies that the gun still had that problem (or any other problem) when it was sent to ToddG.
Next time you start a thread wanting to learn more about something, try to be a lot clearer about what you mean, for starters. Maybe say something like "BR's defense post contained a line that interested me: <insert quote about ToddG/Burton gun from BR's post>. Does anyone know if the feeding problem's cause was ever found and resolved, and if so, what was it and how was it resolved?"
That way, it'd be non-cryptic, non-accusatory, and it wouldn't make negative implications about anyone's financial choices or job performance.
Like SLG, I truly hope you're being sincere here, and not just trolling more. In that spirit, maybe I can provide some small amount of guidance:
Try to look at your posts in this thread from a different perspective. You started the thread in a cryptic manner, obliquely accusing Jason Burton of sending out a finished gun that didn't work, and you did so without any real evidence of that having been true. Even if we stipulate that the gun had a problem when Jason and Bill were talking about it, that in no way implies that the gun still had that problem (or any other problem) when it was sent to ToddG.
Next time you start a thread wanting to learn more about something, try to be a lot clearer about what you mean, for starters. Maybe say something like "BR's defense post contained a line that interested me: <insert quote about ToddG/Burton gun from BR's post>. Does anyone know if the feeding problem's cause was ever found and resolved, and if so, what was it and how was it resolved?"
That way, it'd be non-cryptic, non-accusatory, and it wouldn't make negative implications about anyone's financial choices or job performance.
Very well said.
Clobbersaurus
10-11-2015, 12:29 AM
Obvious troll is obvious.
There are three other posters in this thread that I can't decide if they are just tools, or really epic trolls. Sorry for the Pfestivus type post, but this thread was made for it, and since it hasn't been taken down...
breakingtime91
10-11-2015, 12:32 AM
I love this forum, how is this thread still alive?
Clobbersaurus
10-11-2015, 12:37 AM
I love this forum, how is this thread still alive?
I wish we had a like button. Oh wait..... :D
breakingtime91
10-11-2015, 12:40 AM
This is just getting to the point of stupid. There is no educational benefit/learning experience to this thread. Mino, if you respect this forum at all just stop. This is the first thing I google in the morning and I will be severely pissed off if trolls like you ruin it
If you are being sincere, than I stand corrected. Didn't seem that way, based on your recent posts.
"A person like you", meaning a troll. See above.
As far as crying to Todd, maybe your definition of crying is different than mine. That would seem to imply that you had hurt me in some way, and that Todd could do something about it. I speak to Todd almost every day. I tell him about many of the threads on here that I read or participate in. I try to get him back here every day. No luck. He decided to respond to this thread, since he probably felt the same way about your post as I did. His response certainly surprised me a bit, but he apparently was fairly offended by your post. You might take that as a clue.
Yes, my friend, I'm being sincere. I honestly think there is nothing wrong with my recent posts. I don't post a lot since, like I said, I'm a student and not a teacher thus I have not much to share and concentrate reading to learn instead of commenting.
I swear, all some people think about is trolls like it's some kind of zombie epidemic. Maybe it is and I don't know it.
I went back through the entire thread and read all my posts. I see nothing that's so bad that would warrant all but putting out a $10,000 price tag on my head. I can see after reading everything again that my first post did cause others to post comments that made my first post seem evil. But, like I said in my first post, I didn't mean to be a d!&@, I was just wondering.
Like SLG, I truly hope you're being sincere here, and not just trolling more. In that spirit, maybe I can provide some small amount of guidance:
Try to look at your posts in this thread from a different perspective. You started the thread in a cryptic manner, obliquely accusing Jason Burton of sending out a finished gun that didn't work, and you did so without any real evidence of that having been true. Even if we stipulate that the gun had a problem when Jason and Bill were talking about it, that in no way implies that the gun still had that problem (or any other problem) when it was sent to ToddG.
Next time you start a thread wanting to learn more about something, try to be a lot clearer about what you mean, for starters. Maybe say something like "BR's defense post contained a line that interested me: <insert quote about ToddG/Burton gun from BR's post>. Does anyone know if the feeding problem's cause was ever found and resolved, and if so, what was it and how was it resolved?"
That way, it'd be non-cryptic, non-accusatory, and it wouldn't make negative implications about anyone's financial choices or job performance.
You're right.
That cryptic thing you talk about was meant to do three things.
1- Not mention JB's name since I'm a fan of his work and didn't want to seem accusatory towards him. I failed.
2- To attract only those who saw BR's "defense" post to comment as maybe they would have some info. I failed again.
3- A fun/playful/creative/mysterious way of starting a thread. What can I say? I'm not much of a wordsmith. Some tried to resurrect the witch burning laws to dispose of me. Yeah, that's a fail.
Next time I start a thread I will do so in the most soft-ball, goody two shoes way possible. Some people are just too sensitive.
Eyesquared
10-11-2015, 04:00 PM
You're right.
That cryptic thing you talk about was meant to do three things.
1- Not mention JB's name since I'm a fan of his work and didn't want to seem accusatory towards him. I failed.
2- To attract only those who saw BR's "defense" post to comment as maybe they would have some info. I failed again.
3- A fun/playful/creative/mysterious way of starting a thread. What can I say? I'm not much of a wordsmith. Some tried to resurrect the witch burning laws to dispose of me. Yeah, that's a fail.
Next time I start a thread I will do so in the most soft-ball, goody two shoes way possible. Some people are just too sensitive.
The way I saw it, you wrote a confusing and unhelpful post tangentially referencing a somewhat controversial individual, got called out on it, and then started whining that you're being burned at the stake or being oppressed. Of course, the whole time, you're digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole with snarky comments like "We are definitely living in a very judging and punishing society here, huh?", "What did I say that makes me 'a person like you'? What kind of person am I, sir? I think I'm a pretty good dude," and "I honestly think there is nothing wrong with my recent posts."
I don't know who here is "too sensitive." Based on your total inability to just straight up apologize for the misunderstanding without complaining of persecution, I suspect it may be you.
ToddG
10-11-2015, 05:49 PM
No one cried to me. I saw this at the top of the page and was beckoned as if by Odysseus's Siren:
4031
Mino, if you are not a troll you might want to ask yourself why so many people think you are.
If you are a troll, I can only hope that some day I get to shoot you in the chest with a flare gun and then use a D ration bar and two survival crackers to make s'mores over the crackling fire that used to be your chest cavity.
4032
I'm still in complete awe of my 9mm Commander and don't feel a need to discuss it any further with someone who has neither shot it or even seen it in person. Even though I don't know who you are, I'm certain you've done neither because no one who has been allowed to bask in its awesomeness would post anything as asinine as this thread.
I'm out. Ya'll enjoy the forum.
Robinson
10-12-2015, 09:05 AM
Well, when a 1911 says 9x19 on the side......the fail has already started before the first nickel was spent. Just Say'in.
Bah!
Robinson
10-12-2015, 09:05 AM
If its a 1911....is anyone really surprised?
Bah!
jetfire
10-12-2015, 10:40 AM
Holy Jesus this place has gotten salty as fuck since I've been gone.
Awesome.
Caleb, PX4 Compact is cool, not the full size.
Dagga Boy
10-12-2015, 10:57 AM
If its a 1911....is anyone really surprised?
Okay, let's not get all crazy.
I am also glad to see that Todd can freely get out his inner feelings. Makes me happy. He actually said what I was thinking.
The folks who deride high end custom 1911's are usually sitting in their mom's basement with a Springfield XD and a Serpa. At a certain point 1911's can get very special. If that is your cup of tea, awesome an welcome to the good things in life. If they aren't, fine. If you have zero experience with high end customs...probably should shut up as you haven't a clue what you are commenting on.
Peally
10-12-2015, 10:58 AM
Holy Jesus this place has gotten salty as fuck since I've been gone.
Awesome.
Screw you too man!
theJanitor
10-12-2015, 11:54 AM
welcome to the good things in life.
Precisely.
If you have zero experience with high end customs...probably should shut up as you haven't a clue what you are commenting on.
Now, now. Let's not be so judgmental. "Clueless but still highly opinionated" is what defines the internet after all.
But can we (meaning people on PF) do better? I hope so.
In fairness, folks here overwhelmingly do better, at least in my view. Everyone can (and probably does) say something stupid once in a while. But stupidity is very far from the norm here.
Only because I delete most of my posts before clicking the Submit Reply button. :)
I do, however, completely agree with you. The behavior here is much better than a lot of other places on the internet. I very much appreciate that.
I donated to the forum because I found the users here are more professional and actually go out and shoot more than other forums. Sad to see trolls find this forum.
He claims he wasn't a troll. You bumped back up a thread that was on its way to die and is now back semi alive. Our troll to member ratio is still a billion times better than ANYWHERE online. We still have it good guys. Don't let 1 semi confused possible troll ruin your Cheerios! I <3 this forum.
Here is the story on that pistol, from my perspective.
1. Jason Burton is one of the top 2 actual, practicing, does his own work 1911 gunsmiths out there.
2. That gun, because it used a Caspian frame, contained (figuratively) a bag full of fleas. Jason did yeomen's work in getting it to run right. This gun had a barrel bed cut in the wrong location. Jason moved mountains to make it work. This exasperated a feeding issue caused by the mag well being way too long for the 9x19 cartridge. Thus pushing the feeding mechanism outside the reliable operation window.
3. When dealing with guns of this ilk (that is, of the highest standard), it is quite common for it to round trip to the maker for fine tuning. These are art work, and that gun was truly nice. It is not a $7500 gun feeding issues.
What Jason did with that gun was akin to what the old school guys like Boland did - taking something way out of wack and making it run right by talent and a bucket full of hard work.
I have never seen a completed Burton gun that didn't run perfectly. I have seen people with more money than experience scratching their head as to why their 1911 with a match barrel and match chamber didn't feed right with uber cheap reman ammo without a taper crimp. YMMV.
My (brief) return was to set the story straight on this - Jason is an amazing 1911 pistolsmith. That gun is typical Jason. Caspian and I did not live up to the standard the Heirloom did and still does. I would, and am, plunk down hard earned cash for a H-P/JB gun.
How about that - a post on a gun form that didn't contain insults!
Cheers all!
Bill
Jim Watson
10-13-2015, 05:21 PM
OK, what brand of parts would you send for a nice job that wouldn't require extreme measures?
Sigfan26
10-13-2015, 06:21 PM
OK, what brand of parts would you send for a nice job that wouldn't require extreme measures?
No guarantees that any of them won't... There's a reason it's $7,500 (and well worth every penny).
OK, what brand of parts would you send for a nice job that wouldn't require extreme measures?
Depends. For example, Wilson makes parts to fit Wilson slides/frames.
Other parts companies make parts to fit generically. Lots of "parts companies" use one particular company run by a top notch gunsmith that no longer builds guns. And most of those parts are designed to fit Colt. Then there is SA, which is built off metric prints.
Colt doesn't equal SA doesn't equal WC doesn't equal Norinco.
If I were spending my $$$ I'd but a Wilson Super Grade or a JB with whatever he wanted.
Jim Watson
10-13-2015, 09:34 PM
I was talking about the big parts, like the Caspian frame that you said was hard to work on.
Lots of "parts companies" use one particular company run by a top notch gunsmith that no longer builds guns.
And I guess that is insider secret knowledge.
But it seems a lot of gunsmiths find parts to be a steadier business than working on one gun at a time.
Then there is SA, which is built off metric prints.
There is one gunsmith, who is absolutely batshit crazy about the difficulty of working on "metric Springfields." Seems to me that the file and stone take care of any rounding errors.
I was talking about the big parts, like the Caspian frame that you said was hard to work on.
And I guess that is insider secret knowledge.
But it seems a lot of gunsmiths find parts to be a steadier business than working on one gun at a time.
There is one gunsmith, who is absolutely batshit crazy about the difficulty of working on "metric Springfields." Seems to me that the file and stone take care of any rounding errors.
Big prts - Colt or Wilson. That's all I buy now.
Parts - I am refering to EGW.
Metric guns - never had an opportunity, so that is more relaying second hand information than anything else. I will say stone and file time is what makes a 3500 gun a 7500 gun though.
Cheers
farscott
10-14-2015, 05:32 AM
I was talking about the big parts, like the Caspian frame that you said was hard to work on.
And I guess that is insider secret knowledge.
But it seems a lot of gunsmiths find parts to be a steadier business than working on one gun at a time.
There is one gunsmith, who is absolutely batshit crazy about the difficulty of working on "metric Springfields." Seems to me that the file and stone take care of any rounding errors.
The quoted post is on the money. I am not sure what happened to Todd's Caspian frame that required all of the work. In my experience, if there is an issue with a Caspian frame, Gary Smith will take care of it, up to and including making a new frame with the serial number and destroying the original frame. I know that David Sams had no qualms about building a 9x19 on Caspian frame and slide components, and that gun runs as well as any 9x19 1911 will. I also have had smiths send parts back to Caspian due to issues found, and those parts were replaced promptly with no hassle.
Not getting into who is the best smith, but guys who build their own guns like Chuck Rogers, Ned Christiansen, and John Harrison have no issues building on "metric" Springfields. I have shot whole guns built by name smiths on Springfield frame/slide kits as well as the work from SACS. I am of the belief that the SA frames and slides are as good as any out there, including the new Wilson frames and slides.
The parts business is a lot more lucrative and offers more return for less labor than slaving over one gun at a time. That is why so many "name" smiths sell parts.
The quoted post is on the money. I am not sure what happened to Todd's Caspian frame that required all of the work. In my experience, if there is an issue with a Caspian frame, Gary Smith will take care of it, up to and including making a new frame with the serial number and destroying the original frame. I know that David Sams had no qualms about building a 9x19 on Caspian frame and slide components, and that gun runs as well as any 9x19 1911 will. I also have had smiths send parts back to Caspian due to issues found, and those parts were replaced promptly with no hassle.
Not getting into who is the best smith, but guys who build their own guns like Chuck Rogers, Ned Christiansen, and John Harrison have no issues building on "metric" Springfields. I have shot whole guns built by name smiths on Springfield frame/slide kits as well as the work from SACS. I am of the belief that the SA frames and slides are as good as any out there, including the new Wilson frames and slides.
The parts business is a lot more lucrative and offers more return for less labor than slaving over one gun at a time. That is why so many "name" smiths sell parts.
"Metric" SAs, meaning Imbel. There is a significant difference between the Imbel guns and the NM guns. I don't know anyone who would prefer to build on an Imbel gun over an NM gun. Granted there are more variables at play than just Imperial vs SI units here.
I'm not beating up Caspian here. Just that the frame in question had issues. Not that anyone tried to get out of anything.
Caspian, and GS individually, are first rate. I did not, nor would I, imply that either of them did anything but good. Sometimes, it becomes a question of what needs to be fixed vs what has already been done. That frame had a ton of work done before the barrel bed issue was found.
Gary, Wilson, and Burton did a heck of a job. Period. This is why, given the choice, many gunsmiths prefer to start with guns they can shoot prior to working on them.
My point being, the holes and cuts on a SA are not necessarily in the same location as a Colt or as a Wilson or a Kimber.
My suggestion for this thread - the full story isn't as sordid as some people want to believe. Lots of people came together and moved mountains. While ultimately I didn't get my end done to anyone's satisfaction, I figure I had about 50 hours in trying to get that gun coated and blackened. As anyone who was on my FB feed at the time can attest, I worked my butt off to get that done.
Anyway, I'd not sweat that gun too much.
2. That gun, because it used a Caspian frame, contained (figuratively) a bag full of fleas. Jason did yeomen's work in getting it to run right. This gun had a barrel bed cut in the wrong location. Jason moved mountains to make it work. This exasperated a feeding issue caused by the mag well being way too long for the 9x19 cartridge. Thus pushing the feeding mechanism outside the reliable operation window.
I really didn't mean this the way, even though I wrote it....
Should be:
That gun, because of the location of the barrel bed, contained a bag full of fleas.... My apologies to Mr Smith and Caspian. That sure wasn't what I mean to say.
Jim Watson
10-14-2015, 09:47 AM
That frame had a ton of work done before the barrel bed issue was found.
My FLG ran into something similar, he started work in an area away from the flaws by the time they became obvious, he had still burned a lot of daylight. No money lost when the part was replaced but time wasted.
This is why, given the choice, many gunsmiths prefer to start with guns they can shoot prior to working on them.
Makes sense. Find the big stuff that needs to be fixed on warranty before you start alterations. Then find the little stuff that needs to be handled in the customizing process.
For making something special by Jason, why not start with a Colt?
Tamara
10-14-2015, 10:59 AM
For making something special by Jason, why not start with a Colt?
Harder to get a custom S/N from Colt?
ETA: Also, I have no idea what Colt's 9x19 offerings were like that year.
Robinson
10-14-2015, 12:51 PM
ETA: Also, I have no idea what Colt's 9x19 offerings were like that year.
Good point; they were sparse or non-existant. Only in the past year did Colt start building any 9mm pistols (at least in any quantity) again, and even those were scaled back when the XSE line was discontinued.
Jim Watson
10-14-2015, 01:51 PM
There were untold numbers of .38 Supers converted to 9mm before the manufacturers caught on.
You could have had a real nice convertible as a custom project on a name brand base gun.
Here is the story on that pistol, from my perspective.
1. Jason Burton is one of the top 2 actual, practicing, does his own work 1911 gunsmiths out there.
2. That gun, because it used a Caspian frame, contained (figuratively) a bag full of fleas. Jason did yeomen's work in getting it to run right. This gun had a barrel bed cut in the wrong location. Jason moved mountains to make it work. This exasperated a feeding issue caused by the mag well being way too long for the 9x19 cartridge. Thus pushing the feeding mechanism outside the reliable operation window.
3. When dealing with guns of this ilk (that is, of the highest standard), it is quite common for it to round trip to the maker for fine tuning. These are art work, and that gun was truly nice. It is not a $7500 gun feeding issues.
What Jason did with that gun was akin to what the old school guys like Boland did - taking something way out of wack and making it run right by talent and a bucket full of hard work.
I have never seen a completed Burton gun that didn't run perfectly. I have seen people with more money than experience scratching their head as to why their 1911 with a match barrel and match chamber didn't feed right with uber cheap reman ammo without a taper crimp. YMMV.
My (brief) return was to set the story straight on this - Jason is an amazing 1911 pistolsmith. That gun is typical Jason. Caspian and I did not live up to the standard the Heirloom did and still does. I would, and am, plunk down hard earned cash for a H-P/JB gun.
How about that - a post on a gun form that didn't contain insults!
Cheers all!
Bill
Who is the other of the top two?
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