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JFS811
10-04-2015, 06:08 PM
My son and I are just starting out with USPSA and IDPA and I would like some advice on gear that is needed. The single most important thing I guess is the pistol. Seeing that we are just starting out I am trying to keep the cost down. I m looking at the Taurus 24/7 and the SW SD9VE both being 9mm. Any advice would be more than welcome.

Thanks, Jay

Failure2Stop
10-04-2015, 06:15 PM
Do you already own any pistols?

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Jack Leuba
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F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

Kyle Reese
10-04-2015, 06:17 PM
I'd avoid anything by Taurus. If you're looking at keeping costs down, the CZ P07 / P09's will get you into the game w/o breaking the bank.

JFS811
10-04-2015, 06:22 PM
No I don't have any equipment at all yet.


Do you already own any pistols?

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Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

Failure2Stop
10-04-2015, 06:44 PM
Here's a working starting point:

G34 with 5 magazines.
G17 or 19 work if you want a bit more practical in the mix, but the 34 does really well in Production and is IDPA legal. Glocks are very easy to find parts/gear for and simple to work on.

Stay with the stock trigger (DIY polish if inclined) until you have at least a few matches under your belt.

Change the sights to something like the Dawson Fiber Optic front. Plain black rear. There are a few decent other manufacturers.

Decent stiff belt, 1.5" width. Galco actually makes a decent leather one. There are a few decent nylon options also. Don't really need a dedicated race belt system if you're just dipping your toe into the pool.

3x Ready Tactical magazine pouches. These are nice because they take up little space on the belt.

If you want to shoot both sports, look for an IDPA approved kydex holster. I personally use Dark Star Gear, Raven, and Blade-Tech. Make sure you order 1.5" belt width compatible loops/mounting systems on your gear.

Highly recommend some training before the first match, especially if you don't have pistol shooting experience. On your first match, let the folks in charge know that you are new, they should help you out in getting some guidance/help during the match.

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Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

Cookie Monster
10-04-2015, 06:51 PM
- Glock pistol
- Wilderness Instructor Belt
- Bladetech Kydex Outside the waistband

Use it stock, shoot a bunch, and figure out how you want to roll. Nothing is high speed or the best but it's a quality start.

Good safety glasses and hearing protection, I'd spend over a 100 on each. I am a big fan of Surefire ear plugs under Electronic hearing protection.

Welcome and enjoy.

OnionsAndDragons
10-04-2015, 06:57 PM
The biggest piece of advice I can give you is: don't skimp on the guns.

You can buy used if you are on a budget, but don't compromise on quality. Get either 2 of the same gun or a long slide/full size or full size/compact combo of compatible guns. Like a G34 and G17, G17 and G19. CZ P09 and 07 are good options as mentioned above.

They have better resale value if you decide it isn't for you, and if it is for you you won't wind up angry about throwing money away on cheap guns when you want good ones.


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RJ
10-04-2015, 07:53 PM
Welcome Jay.

I'm just starting out too; my first match is a USPSA Steel Challenge in two weeks.

Great advice in this thread.

My gear FWIW will be, from head down:

- MSA Sordin Pro-X
- Surefire EP4 plugs
- Champion Over-spec ballistic Wrap around eye pro
- Cheap ball cap

- Ares Aegis belt
- Blade tech OWB holster
- Blade tech dual mag pouch
- Blade tech single mag pouch

- Heckler and Koch VP9 with Trijicon HD yellows (it's my do-it-all, only handgun, so has to work for me)
- Six magazines


Also, we have a group buy going on ear pro, let me know if you are interested. Prices are good through 10/31:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17278-Feeler-Group-buy-on-MSA-Sordin-Ear-Pro

Al T.
10-04-2015, 08:07 PM
Jay, post your location (generally). A bunch of us old timers are more than wiling to let new folks go hands on with our gear.

FWIW, around here, used Glocks (3RD GENs) are fairly inexpensive....

ReverendMeat
10-04-2015, 08:50 PM
- Glock pistol
- Wilderness Instructor Belt
- Bladetech Kydex Outside the waistband

Use it stock, shoot a bunch, and figure out how you want to roll. Nothing is high speed or the best but it's a quality start.

Good safety glasses and hearing protection, I'd spend over a 100 on each. I am a big fan of Surefire ear plugs under Electronic hearing protection.

Welcome and enjoy.

This right here. If you keep your eyes peeled you can get a used glock for a song (I've been seeing some good deals on used Beretta 92s and Px4s as well). Also if you don't mind shooting a true DAO I've seen new SIG P250s sell for under 300.

45dotACP
10-04-2015, 10:15 PM
Ear and eye protection are a must...I cheap out and do regular plugs under regular muffs...but get proper safety glasses.

As for guns....there are a lot of options. The Canik Tp9 seems to be a popular option for low cost shooters....personally, I'd go with a Glock...there are good prices for them online in various places. Then, a solid belt, a bladetech holster, four mag pouches and five mags. Maybe a set of sights if you need different ones.

Oh and a case or two of ammo helps too.

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pr1042
10-04-2015, 10:51 PM
you can pick up the smith optics aegis glasses for ~$20 right now, not bad for glasses meeting the MIL PRF 31013 standard

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/smith-optics-elite-aegis-echo-shooting-glasses~p~8851t/?filterString=s~aegis%2F&colorFamily=01

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/smith-elite-aegis-arc-compact-urban-wolf-shooting-glasses-interchangeable-lenses~p~8851u/?filterString=s~aegis%2F&colorFamily=01

Other than that for a starter set

Glock 17
Safariland 5197 holster
Kytex mag carriers
Wilderness belt
Howard Leight electronic ear pro (I still wear plugs underneath)

rob_s
10-05-2015, 04:41 AM
Here's a working starting point:

G34 with 5 magazines.
G17 or 19 work if you want a bit more practical in the mix, but the 34 does really well in Production and is IDPA legal. Glocks are very easy to find parts/gear for and simple to work on.

Stay with the stock trigger (DIY polish if inclined) until you have at least a few matches under your belt.

Change the sights to something like the Dawson Fiber Optic front. Plain black rear. There are a few decent other manufacturers.

Decent stiff belt, 1.5" width. Galco actually makes a decent leather one. There are a few decent nylon options also. Don't really need a dedicated race belt system if you're just dipping your toe into the pool.

3x Ready Tactical magazine pouches. These are nice because they take up little space on the belt.

If you want to shoot both sports, look for an IDPA approved kydex holster. I personally use Dark Star Gear, Raven, and Blade-Tech. Make sure you order 1.5" belt width compatible loops/mounting systems on your gear.

Highly recommend some training before the first match, especially if you don't have pistol shooting experience. On your first match, let the folks in charge know that you are new, they should help you out in getting some guidance/help during the match.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff


- Glock pistol
- Wilderness Instructor Belt
- Bladetech Kydex Outside the waistband

Use it stock, shoot a bunch, and figure out how you want to roll. Nothing is high speed or the best but it's a quality start.

Good safety glasses and hearing protection, I'd spend over a 100 on each. I am a big fan of Surefire ear plugs under Electronic hearing protection.

Welcome and enjoy.

Combine these two posts and you're good.

If you shop around you can get a used Glock for the price of the new lower-tier guns you mentioned in the first post.

Also, avoid the temptation to buy something like a Fobus holster because you think it looks just like the Blade-Tech that was suggested. Save yourself a lot of headaches and just get thenBlade-Tech.

Just to try and further help...

Get this holster
http://shop.blade-tech.com/index.php?cPath=1_23_24#.VhJFd8LEyrU

These mag pouches (you'll want at least three for IDPA, four for USPSA)
http://www.skdtac.com/Ready-Tactical-Pistol-Mag-Pouch-p/rdt.103.htm

This belt (5-stitch)
http://www.thewilderness.com/tactical-belts/easy-fit-original-instructor-belt/

Alpha Sierra
10-05-2015, 06:49 AM
Personally, I'd stay away from Glocks.

Too many other good options to limit yourself

In no particular order: Berettas 92 and PX4, CZ 75 and P-09, S&W M&P, SIG P226 and P320.....

Note that all my suggestions are full size pistols.

ACP230
10-05-2015, 07:58 AM
Since I had them already I competed with 1911s, Browing Hi-Powers and .41 Magnum M57 revolvers.
If starting now I think I'd buy a full size S&W M&P in 9mm.

I have shot Glocks and DA/SA SIGs and Beretta M92s.
They don't work for me as well as other makes. Lots of match shooters in my area run Glocks and SIGs and are
happy doing so, however.

rob_s
10-05-2015, 08:04 AM
I think that, especially for someone starting out new, there's little reason not to start with the Glock, and lots of reasons to do so. Not everyone has special-snowflake tendencies early on. I do, however, think that the M&P would be a close second choice these days at it has become far more ubiquitous, and shares almost all of the same positive attributes of the Glock.

Alpha Sierra
10-05-2015, 08:50 AM
There is nothing "special snowflake" about guns that are not Glocks.

They are just not Glocks, which for many is a good thing.

ST911
10-05-2015, 08:57 AM
OP- Keep it simple. Shoot the guns you have from the gear you have. Share, if you need or want to. At the match, focus on safe handling, safe movement, and good marksmanship.

My kids and I started with my G19s in simple kydex holsters and pouches, on some sort of riggers belt. Still similarly equipped we do well...and have a lot of fun.

JFS811
10-05-2015, 11:29 AM
I live in Stallings NC which is just south east of Charlotte NC.

Where are some good locations or websites to pick up a used glock, M&P or a CZ?

JFS811
10-05-2015, 11:40 AM
Any thoughts on the Sig P250. Retail is about $399.

Chris Rhines
10-05-2015, 11:59 AM
Any thoughts on the Sig P250. Retail is about $399.
Not a good gun.

Look, I can see that you want to control your costs at the outset, and that's a good thing. But if you buy one of these bargain-basement pistols and try to run it in competition, you'll be screwing yourself over. You'll be stuck with a pistol that's unreliable, hard to shoot, or both. You'll have a tough time building your skills, because your gun will be holding you back. Finally, when you get completely sick of the gun, you won't be able to sell it for anything near what you have into it.

You'll come out ahead if you get one of the pistols recommended above. A Glock 17 or 34, or a CZ P-09, would be my suggestion. You'll have a gun that you can shoot and train with pretty much forever, with just a minimum of maintenance. Either of these guns can be had for around $500.

RJ
10-05-2015, 04:13 PM
I live in Stallings NC which is just south east of Charlotte NC.

Where are some good locations or websites to pick up a used glock, M&P or a CZ?

Jay - I don't know if it helps with your decision, but you might want to be sure and weigh in the cost of ammo for a year, for what you plan to shoot, vs. the original cost of the pistol.

The answer might surprise you, enough so that a higher price point pistol might start to make sense.

I might make one more suggestion: in 2013, before buying my first handgun, I went to the local range and shot almost every different 9mm semiautomatic pistol available.

I learned that shooting is much more instructive in selecting a firearm than internet research, and in particular, what fits *you* might not be what you think.

BJJ
10-05-2015, 06:25 PM
I listened to an interview of Greg Hamilton on Jack Donovan's Start the World podcast recently. Greg runs Insights Training in the Seattle area. His recommendation for someone starting out was to buy a Glock 9mm, either a 19 or a 17. Invest in good initial training and shoot a few thousands rounds of ammo. He says at that point you'll know enough to figure out what's going to work you and you can buy a different gun if you feel like you need to.

The good thing about having a gun that works is you can worry about your skills rather than the gun.

RJ
10-05-2015, 07:36 PM
I listened to an interview of Greg Hamilton on Jack Donovan's Start the World podcast recently. Greg runs Insights Training in the Seattle area. His recommendation for someone starting out was to buy a Glock 9mm, either a 19 or a 17. Invest in good initial training and shoot a few thousands rounds of ammo. He says at that point you'll know enough to figure out what's going to work you and you can buy a different gun if you feel like you need to.

The good thing about having a gun that works is you can worry about your skills rather than the gun.

Having just gone through 4,000+ rounds and two guns in two years, there is wisdom in this post.

There is so much good going on in a Glock 19 for a new shooter, it is scary.

I will say though, that an M&P, Sig P320, Walther PPQ, or HK VP9 would also all be excellent choices for a noobie, IMHO.

rob_s
10-06-2015, 07:01 AM
There is nothing "special snowflake" about guns that are not Glocks.

They are just not Glocks, which for many is a good thing.

and if he's never owned a gun before, how is he to know the difference?

Failure2Stop
10-06-2015, 09:36 AM
One great thing about owning a Glock is that you can shoot GSSF with it.
GSSF returns a lot of $$ to individual shooters.
As an aside, GSSF is a good way to break into competitive shooting. Very controlled, no movement, no holster work, standardized courses of fire.

As above, there a a few decent pistol choices, but the gun is really low on the list of things that make the individual competitive.
Whatever you get, more important than what is is, is how much you work with it.

HCM
10-06-2015, 10:12 AM
I live in Stallings NC which is just south east of Charlotte NC.

Where are some good locations or websites to pick up a used glock, M&P or a CZ?

The buds gun shop website offers lay away / 180 days to pay/make an offer features. Law man's supply in Raleigh often has Police Department trade in guns but most of them will be 40 or 357 caliber rather than 9 mm.

I would stick with 9 mm as if you are actually shooting, practicing and training your ammo cost will quickly exceed the cost of the gun. Guns are durable goods so buy once / cry once applies. find a range with rental guns and try shooting as many of your potential choices as possible.

The advice for a Glock 9 mm is solid. Also since you are looking to purchase two guns, you and your son might want to look into joining the Glock shooting sports foundation. I believe GSSF numbers are able to purchase one or two glocks per year at "blue label ". ( LE/military) pricing of $398.

If for some reason you don't care for the Glocks, the Smith & Wesson M & P, the HK VP 9, and the Sig P320 are all good choices. If you prefer a double action/single action the CZ PO 7 and PO 9 are all solid choices. The VP9 runs about $600 if you shop around. You should be able to find any of the other guns I listed for around 500

JFS811
10-06-2015, 07:22 PM
Thanks for all the responses. They all have been helpful.

Any thoughts on a Springfield XD9?

RJ
10-06-2015, 08:12 PM
Any thoughts on a Springfield XD9?

Opinions are...mixed.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16952-Springfield-Armory-XD9&highlight=Springfield

ReverendMeat
10-06-2015, 08:25 PM
Thanks for all the responses. They all have been helpful.

Any thoughts on a Springfield XD9?

Check out Rich's link above. For a first handgun that you'll likely trade in for something else later, the XD is fine. They can be found for pretty cheap and you'll be better off than you would be with a Taurus.

BN
10-07-2015, 05:58 AM
Check the results of matches that tell what everybody shot. You'll find a lot of Glocks, M&P's and CZ's. There is a reason why most people don't shoot something else. Also check Gunbroker for used gun prices. The above 3 still sell for a good price used if you decide to sell and switch. Other values doesn't hold up as well.

Are you going to share one pistol or buy 2. I would recommend they both be the same if you get 2.

Al T.
10-07-2015, 07:24 PM
Lawman's supply in Raleigh often has Police Department trade in guns

I think there is one in Charlotte now.

JFS, I'm about an hour and a half south of you in Columbia. If you'd like to ride down one Saturday (depending on my work schedule) or Sunday, we can do some shooting.

JFS811
10-08-2015, 08:37 AM
I think there is one in Charlotte now.

JFS, I'm about an hour and a half south of you in Columbia. If you'd like to ride down one Saturday (depending on my work schedule) or Sunday, we can do some shooting.

Thanks for the offer I will keep it in mind. Right now I am trying to find the right gun for my son and I to share. its looking like a SW M&P9. Was also wondering about the Walther PPX if anyone has any experience with it.

Failure2Stop
10-08-2015, 09:10 AM
Thanks for the offer I will keep it in mind. Right now I am trying to find the right gun for my son and I to share. its looking like a SW M&P9. Was also wondering about the Walther PPX if anyone has any experience with it.

M&P is fine.
The PPX is a decent carry gun, but if the primary job of the gun is competition, the PPX is not going to give you the available options that a Glock, M&P, or XD will.

As far as the XD goes, while I'm not a fan, they are increasing in their numbers in event, and I have heard certain aspects of the guns that shooters like. Not going to get me over to them unless they do some significant design changes, but I don't have quite the judgemental eye toward them that I once did.

OnionsAndDragons
10-08-2015, 09:30 AM
M&P is a very good entry spot. They can be found at reasonable prices and have a lot of aftermarket support.

As to XD's, I think the XDm has a lot of value going on for shooting games. There is a lot of hate on the grip safety, but most of the valid points only have teeth if you are talking about defensive use.


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JFS811
10-08-2015, 12:40 PM
Well looks like we are going with a Glock 17. Seems to be the best overall package for what we want to use it for. Plus there is tons of support out there for these guns so I feel it was the best choice.

Al T.
10-09-2015, 06:56 PM
Good choice. :)

OnionsAndDragons
10-09-2015, 07:38 PM
Hard to say it's ever a bad choice. And it is an excellent starting point, even if it int your ending point.


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Cookie Monster
10-09-2015, 07:46 PM
Keep us up to date on your progress, enjoy the sport.

Luke
10-09-2015, 08:53 PM
You should start a journal man! You could track you and your sons progress!