New 1911

[Steve m]

Been doing the polymer thing a while, and I have saved up some money and want to get a 1911. My budget is 1500.00 for gun, holster and mags. I am looking for advice and the best way to spend my money. Thanks for all your help

[Al T.]

What are you planning to do with the 1911? :)

IMHO, though not IME, STI seems to be one of the better deals. I can tell you from personal experience and observation that I'd rather have a Taurus than a Kimber.

Just ran across a Hackathorn quote critical of STI "game guns" so I'm all ears for other opinions. :cool:

[LittleLebowski]

Sure you don't just want to spend the money on a good class?

[JFK]

I will never begrudge someone that wants a 1911. I like em, carried them for years. I would suggest the semi-customs. You can find a Les Baer slightly used for that price and it will run without work.

[JohnN]

As someone who has wrestled with 1911's for years I would second the suggestion of going with a semi-custom, my preference being a Wilson CQB.

Since switching to polymer pistols the drama has been substantially reduced however.

[Steve m]

Thanks to all, my uses will be plinking, maybe competition, some carry

[JHC]

The target rear sight is not ideal for IWB carry but with your total budget, the first place I'd look is the Springfield Armory Range Officer model. I've only seen great reviews from at least a dozen owners. Priced under a grand leaves you some room. This model is billed as a TRP minus some TRP features to lower the price.

[DUNDEM]

If it were me I'd try to get my hands on a VBOB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Odin Bravo One]

If carry is on the list, then one would assume that you mean it to be functional if it became necessary. In which case, you can rule out STI. Being a 1911 fan to the point where one might describe it as bordering on obsessive, I will agree with some of the advice already presented. Factory guns are quite capable for plinking, range work, etc. But getting them to "No shit, I may need to save my life with this pistol", is not something I have found from the factory guns. All needed at least some attention by a competent gunsmith. And unfortunately, that is usually not the "Smithy" at the local shop.

The semi-custom, or what I prefer to call "Production Custom" like Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, etc tend to fair significantly better because they are getting gunsmith attention along the way, they are not just dropping cookie cutter parts all together and hoping for the best. That's not to say they are perfect or without issues. Everyone makes garbage once in awhile. But it's not just a business name, and for Bill Wilson and Les Baer, it is personal, and they take it personally too. They make it right, no matter what the problem. You won't get that from the big box stores.

I did have a Springfield Armory that ran pretty good right out of the box, but that has been the exception rather than the rule. I have owned most of the major producers, Colt, SA, Kimber, STI, etc., and a lot have gone by the wayside and either been replaced, or sent off for significant overhauls. Even the SA that ran decent out of the box ended up at a smith to get some much needed attention relatively early in it's service life.

Everyone and their brother's dog is making a 1911 now, and very few "reviews" or "evals" that are written in the glossy page advertisement periodicals are going to paint an ugly picture. I know everyone who has anything to do with the gun media will take offense/shit a chicken, but it is true. Rarely do you see anyone say a bad word about a gun in their column. Yes, there are some exceptions.........but not many. And I have yet to read a review on any recent production 1911 that did anything but say positive things. Even when negatives are noted, they are done so with a positive spin on them.

At the end of the day, there are just not many makers that will take the time to decrease profit margin and build them with the expertise necessary to get them running properly for hard use. If it is not capable of running hard, then it shouldn't be going in a holster for carry.

I am a huge fan of the 1911, much to the chagrin of hi-cap polymer people. (Some people on this board even) And I concur with their logic, and myself daily carry a hi-cap 9mm. But there is something about the 1911 that I can't let it go. To the point where I still own 7 of them, and have just commissioned another custom build. Does that mean you have to dump a ton of money into a 1911 to get it working right? Or have a full custom build? No. But a factory gun will need some attention before it is good for life support. That can be a simple once over to make sure the parts are all fitted and functioning properly. If they are, it can be a relatively cheap trip to the gunsmith. But if they aren't, it can get expensive.

Then it is on you, the user, to educate yourself thoroughly with the platform and be able to perform basic maintenance, etc. Does that mean you need to become a factory trained armorer, or an understudy apprentice gunsmith? Certainly not. But you do need to be able to fix minor issues that may come as parts wear and tear. The 1911 is a little more particular than the modern polymer guns with wide tolerances. Once you understand it, it is easy to maintain. But understanding is the key.

I am not a 1911 expert, nor do I play one on TV. Just my experiences and opinions over the last couple of years running a 1911 in various roles.

[vcdgrips]

I will present three options. All are 5 inch, all steel guns. To echo Sean M, all of the options may involve going to a smith who knows how to set up a 1911 for bet your life reliabilty. This may cost 100-250.

1. Find a used Series I Kimber 5 inch all steel gun. Have it checked out and perhaps de MIMed and you will likely be in at under 1100.

2. Buy a new Springfield MC Operator at 1100 ish ( Night Sights, Light Rail, decent grips from the factory etc ). You will have excellent customer support should there be a problem and the Custom Shop should that problem be perplexing and/or you decide to upgrade the gun as the Springfield Custom Shop tends to do quality work in timelines measured in weeks v. months/years

3. Buy a used semi-custom which would include a Baer, Wilson or Springfield Professional. This will push your budget to 2ish by the time you get belt/holster/magzines etc.

Please know that a purpose designed gunbelt is critical with an all steel 5 inch 1911 platform.

As a dyed in the wool Glock guy, whose first shooting mentors who started training with Cooper in the late 70's , who knows better, I often feel, in my heart, that I should be carrying a 1911. It is the only other non-Glock platfrom I have ever owned or trained with.

[JFK]

+1 on the all steel. Heavy but awesome.

Also +1 on the 5 inch. They run better, shoot better, and conceal just the same because it is the same thickness as the smaller ones.

[VolGrad]

It might take a while to find the right deal but I'd suggest a used Wilson CQB.

[teamacacia]

I recently picked up a colt 70 series that had some cylinder and slide work to it. I really thought seriously about going the carry route with it but haven't decided that I know enough about 1911's and troubleshooting 1911's to get too serious with the platform. It shoots like a dream but the polymer platform (m&p and glock) are just so comfortable given the quantity of practice I've had with them.

[willowofwisp]

You can sometimes find used Les Baers for around 1200-1400$..well worth the price IMO.

[WDW]

I recently picked up a colt 70 series that had some cylinder and slide work to it. .
You have a revolving 1911?

[will_1400]

You have a revolving 1911?

Cylinder & Slide Inc. (http://www.cylinder-slide.com/)

[ADKilla]

As a died in the wool 1911 guy, I will recommend what I think is the best non-semi custom 1911 out there right now: the Double Star 1911. Both slide and frame are matte parkerized, comprised from steel forgings for optimum strength and accuracy. The ejection port is lowered and scalloped at the rear to improve reliability. They make a railed or non-railed version. While a pistol is more than a combination of parts, starting with good parts is a good start. The Double Star's parts include Storm Lake barrel and bushing, Ed Brown beavertail grip safety, thumb safety, hammer, disconnector, and sear, Novak three-dot sights, Greider trigger, Wolff springs, Strider Gunner grips, and 25lpi checkered front strap and 20lpi checkered flat mainspring housing. Slide to frame fit is not as great as a semi-custom, but anyone who knows anything about 1911s knows that that is not the major determining factor for accuracy; the lock-up on the barrel into the lugs is terrific. Trigger pull is about 4lbs. MSRP for the railed version is about $1250, but I found mine for about $200 less. The non-railed version goes for about $1100.

Concur with other posters about a used Wilson Combat, Les Baer, or Ed Brown. I love my Wilson Combat CQB Compact.

As for reliability, remember that the Model 1911 was designed as a steel full size gun which was supposed to shoot a 230grain FMJ round. When we start making significant changes to the design parameters we begin to see the increased problems with reliability. However, it's generally accepted that if you keep the barrel no shorter than four inches, you can make the system work.

[Steve m]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I am going with a springfield TRP IOT learn and teach myself more about the 1911. I prefer my glocks, but I think almost every gun safe should have one. I also have the benefit of being near som top USMC armorers to learn from.

[JHC]

My TRP ran great out of the box. I added some lube and shot to 1200 rds before cleaning it the first time. Just on the first load up of Mobil 1. Then at around 2200 rds I cleaned it the first time. I never did have a malfunction with it. That plus sub 2" (25 yd) accurate. It was superb.

I no longer own it because I determined this was too much scratch tied up in a gun I didn't really enjoy shooting anymore and was more expensive to shoot. I know where it still sits on a used gun shelf if anyone wants to know. ;)

[willowofwisp]

As a died in the wool 1911 guy, I will recommend what I think is the best non-semi custom 1911 out there right now: the Double Star 1911. Both slide and frame are matte parkerized, comprised from steel forgings for optimum strength and accuracy. The ejection port is lowered and scalloped at the rear to improve reliability. They make a railed or non-railed version. While a pistol is more than a combination of parts, starting with good parts is a good start. The Double Star's parts include Storm Lake barrel and bushing, Ed Brown beavertail grip safety, thumb safety, hammer, disconnector, and sear, Novak three-dot sights, Greider trigger, Wolff springs, Strider Gunner grips, and 25lpi checkered front strap and 20lpi checkered flat mainspring housing. Slide to frame fit is not as great as a semi-custom, but anyone who knows anything about 1911s knows that that is not the major determining factor for accuracy; the lock-up on the barrel into the lugs is terrific. Trigger pull is about 4lbs. MSRP for the railed version is about $1250, but I found mine for about $200 less. The non-railed version goes for about $1100.

Concur with other posters about a used Wilson Combat, Les Baer, or Ed Brown. I love my Wilson Combat CQB Compact.

As for reliability, remember that the Model 1911 was designed as a steel full size gun which was supposed to shoot a 230grain FMJ round. When we start making significant changes to the design parameters we begin to see the increased problems with reliability. However, it's generally accepted that if you keep the barrel no shorter than four inches, you can make the system work.

DoubleStar is a garbage 1911, I bought one brand new a year ago, before the first 50 rounds the sear disconnnector broke, so I sent it back...it was fixed and returned..200 rounds later the gun developed hammer follow a long with fail to eject problems, they also did a horrible job fitting the magazine catch and magazine would often have to be pulled from the magwell.

The gun was made with great parts but it seems their gunsmiths just don't have the talent like other companies do, I know of two other people who had similar issues with their DoubleStar.

Maybe now they are putting out a better product but back in 2009 it was horrendous.

[JRas]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I am going with a springfield TRP IOT learn and teach myself more about the 1911. I prefer my glocks, but I think almost every gun safe should have one. I also have the benefit of being near som top USMC armorers to learn from.

If you have the benefit of some USMC armorers, get them to make you one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEU%28SOC%29_pistol

[ADKilla]

DoubleStar is a garbage 1911, I bought one brand new a year ago, before the first 50 rounds the sear disconnnector broke, so I sent it back...it was fixed and returned..200 rounds later the gun developed hammer follow a long with fail to eject problems, they also did a horrible job fitting the magazine catch and magazine would often have to be pulled from the magwell.

The gun was made with great parts but it seems their gunsmiths just don't have the talent like other companies do, I know of two other people who had similar issues with their DoubleStar.

Maybe now they are putting out a better product but back in 2009 it was horrendous.

Sorry to hear about your problems. The OP was looking for a midlevel 1911. I offered an honest suggestion. I've put over 500 rounds through mine in the past month without any problems.

DS obviously has had problems, as do most manufacturer's first pistols, and may still even have a few. But you also hear complaints about SIG, Dan Wesson, Kimber, Colt, S&W, Remington, Ruger, and most other production 1911s too. I think they are some nice pistols, especially in their price range. No, they don't even come close to the quality and craftsmanship of my Wilson Combat CQB Compact, which itself doesn't come close to any of my full custom 1911s...but the DS also doesn't cost as much. But they are not supposed to, they are a midlevel gun, meant to be an option against the Springfield MC Operator or Kimber Warrior series. Both of which are right around the $1000-1200 range.

[Tamara]

The gun was made with great parts but it seems their gunsmiths just don't have the talent like other companies do...
This.

Like early GSRs and early Dan Wessons, the examples I've seen are like a laundry list of top shelf parts, indifferently assembled. :(

[SecondsCount]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I am going with a springfield TRP IOT learn and teach myself more about the 1911. I prefer my glocks, but I think almost every gun safe should have one. I also have the benefit of being near som top USMC armorers to learn from.

The TRP is a solid platform and Springfield is there for you if you have any issues.

Get some quality magazines - Wilson, Tripp, or Chip McCormick and you should be good to go.

[Dagga Boy]

I am a huge 1911 lover and snob.........and part of the evil gun media:cool: (its okay, I am a hobby gunwriter, and by no means typical of the breed:eek:). Until very recently, all of my high end, working 1911's were built exclusively by Colt. I just got a "bastard" (Nighthawk GRP frame with a Caspian slide totally rebuilt by Steve Morrison at MARS Armaments and then gone through by Larry Vickers), but otherwise all my MARS, Vickers and TJ's 1911's are Colt. I have found over the years that starting with a Colt gun is always a good starting point. These days I recommend starting with a Colt Rail Gun or XSE if you don't want the rail, and then start saving your pennies for both shooting, training classes, and then sending the gun to a high quality smith to perfect any issues you see after spending some serious time on the gun. The other option is to pick up a well documented and pedigreed gun that is used. I would take your time with this and do some serious diligent research as you do not want somebody else's problem child. With the tough economy, there are some very nice custom 1911's being sold out of desperation for a fraction of what they cost to build.

[Kevin B.]

The TRP is a solid platform and Springfield is there for you if you have any issues.

Get some quality magazines - Wilson, Tripp, or Chip McCormick and you should be good to go.

Agree 100%.

[Tamara]

The other option is to pick up a well documented and pedigreed gun that is used. I would take your time with this and do some serious diligent research as you do not want somebody else's problem child. With the tough economy, there are some very nice custom 1911's being sold out of desperation for a fraction of what they cost to build.
nyeti speaks truth.

Unless you know the history of the gun in question, or have the knowledge and ability to thoroughly detail strip it and know what to look for, buying someone else's customized project gun is buying a pig in a poke.

Back in the nineties I spent a lot of money paying a "gunsmith" to ruin 1911 frames (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/03/1911-gap.html) for me, and I was sure I knew what I was doing...

[SecondsCount]

I just got a "bastard" (Nighthawk GRP frame with a Caspian slide totally rebuilt by Steve Morrison at MARS Armaments and then gone through by Larry Vickers), but otherwise all my MARS, Vickers and TJ's 1911's are Colt.
Hmmm...I wonder if I have the top end to that gun.

The guy I bought it from was on m4carbine, out of Ohio if I remember correctly. He didn't like the sights- fiber optic front, adjustable Novak rear. I fitted a Fusion frame to it and it runs very well.

I call it the FrankenHawk ;)

http://home.comcast.net/~train2live/1911/fushawk1r2.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~train2live/1911/fushawk3.jpg

[ADKilla]

I am a huge 1911 lover and snob. The other option is to pick up a well documented and pedigreed gun that is used. I would take your time with this and do some serious diligent research as you do not want somebody else's problem child. With the tough economy, there are some very nice custom 1911's being sold out of desperation for a fraction of what they cost to build.

I am in the same boat: a 1911 snob. All of my 1911s that go into harms way are high end models that have been purposely built by reputable pistol smiths and have been rigorously field tested. But for the price range the OP was looking for there are good guns out there. Absolutely agree that a "try before you buy" option is always best, but not always possible. Definitely be finicky.

[Dagga Boy]

"Hmmm...I wonder if I have the top end to that gun."

Mine was originally a GRP and the owner hated the big gigantic GRP on the side of the slide............as do I, so it was kind of perfect. My first Morrison "THUG" became fairly famous and valuable after the Combat Tactics article. I had Steve do another Colt for me that was going to be a duty gun. I ended up being forced to retire due to my injuries and that one was given to me by the police union as my retirement gun instead of a glass clock. Both gun shoot great, but I kind of hate to carry them a lot. My latest is a bastard beater and the "local gunsmith" who tinkered with it after the initial build seems to know a thing or two about 1911's (Larry Vickers), so I did really good on it, and have no issues with dings, dents, and wear.

I always like to start with guns that I can carry and shoot before they go to the smith to ensure they aren't total lemons or have major issues. For me, the COlts have always been good in this regard.

[JAD]

I'm sure you'll do well with the TRP. As a note for folks who might be reading this thread after the fact, I am getting relentlessly positive feedback on the Ruger 1911. Still waiting for enough anecdotes to call it data, but they do seem like the real deal. Sorry it's not firsthand; I have a bad habit of buying colts and then spending the OP's entire budget making them pretty...

[Al T.]

positive feedback on the Ruger 1911

Handled my first one today. Local shop has one for under 6 bills. I liked what I saw. :)

[JAD]

Handled my first one today. Local shop has one for under 6 bills. I liked what I saw. :)
I have yet to paw one (I won't say I have too many 1911s, but my wife would do so gladly). I think the only negative I've heard is that the grip safety is not perfectly fitted; Kimber spoiled us on that, and I bet the Ruger is up to Colt XSE standards.

[MikeO]

The target rear sight is not ideal for IWB carry but with your total budget, the first place I'd look is the Springfield Armory Range Officer model. I've only seen great reviews from at least a dozen owners. Priced under a grand leaves you some room. This model is billed as a TRP minus some TRP features to lower the price.

I keep hearing that, but to me it looks more like a Mil-Spec w some added features to up the price. ;)

[CK1]

If you haven't already picked up a TRP (which I think is a fine gun btw), you'd be crazy not to handle/shoot/consider an STI Trojan, and within your budget of $1500 you'd still have proceeds to equip yourself with some mags and a holster set-up or even pick up a couple parts to trick it out to your own personal taste. The STI Spartans assembled on an RIA frame, barrel and slide are hands-down the best bang-for-the-buck option available in 1911-land and will easily shooting-wise hang with even upper echelon guns from Baer and Wilson, but for someone who wants a little more awesomeness, and maybe something 100% american made and built at the hands of actual texans who's business is top-notch 1911-style blasters, the Trojans IMO are THE supreme champ of getting the most 1911 for around a grand. The Trojans feature a couple things like under-cut trigger guards (which IMO is truly an upgrade to the 1911 platform that can be appreciated by anyone but that is usually only appreciated by a few as it's normally only found on one-off custom guns) and Ed Brown-style STIppling on the front-strap that separate them from the pack at that price-point, but honestly it's really the overall quality that is head and shoulders above it's price segment peers; they're fit as well as guns costing three times as much (and they usually are just as accurate and work better than 1911's costing three times as much too).

Additionally, something to consider when talking 1911's is that many are embellished with stuff that affects their price-tags that has a lot more to do with a certain "barbecue-gun factor" more so than enhancements that equate to purely improving function, like name-recognition prestige, checkering you can lemon-zest your mango salsa with, or craftsmanship in fitting that's more so for aesthetics than anything else, most Baers, Wilsons, high-end Springfields and Browns see more admiring than actual range time and those companies know it... since STI is mostly about competition guns that'll be run hard, their pistols are built to a standard that is more focused on running well and holding up over lots and lots of rounds and abuse, but this also gives them their own prestige in most shooting circles, one that is synonymous with performance. With the STI's your dollars transmit directly to quality parts and quality workmanship.

I'm not really an STI fan-boy or anything but I just thought I'd add my $0.02 as a former owner of a TRP, a Brown, Wilson CQB Elite and some others... the Trojan in the pic has stood up to thousands and thousands of rounds and even with the added Techwell, Larry Davidson grips, EGW clockwork, and SVI ITS trigger came to just about $1500, and I'd take it over any of the others mentioned. Worth a look...

(Plus, it's worth mentioning that Todd Jarrett has shown up to the last couple USPSA Singlestack nationals with a Trojan, and he isn't even sponsered by STI, knows a thing or two about 1911's, and can shoot whatever he wants. I'm pretty sure any of the 1911-makers would be falling over themselves to send him free blasters to use...)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckarp007/IMG_1220.jpg

[Tamara]

Additionally, something to consider when talking 1911's is that many are embellished with stuff that affects their price-tags that has a lot more to do with a certain "barbecue-gun factor" more so than enhancements that equate to purely improving function, like name-recognition prestige, checkering you can lemon-zest your mango salsa with, or craftsmanship in fitting that's more so for aesthetics than anything else, most Baers, Wilsons, high-end Springfields and Browns see more admiring than actual range time and those companies know it...
I'm curious as to what you think the "barbecue-gun" embellishments on, say, a Baer TRP or Springer PX9111 are.

[CK1]

I'm curious as to what you think the "barbecue-gun" embellishments on, say, a Baer TRP or Springer PX9111 are.

Nothing "for show" with those per se, but, think the OP means a Springfield TRP (Baer TRS is a fine gun, more than $1500 though, again, mostly because it's a Baer...) which is an awesome $800 1911 (not $1200 1911), same with the PX modal, simply over-priced for what you get IMO...

[Tamara]

Nothing "for show" with those per se, but, think the OP means a Springfield TRP (Baer TRS is a fine gun, more than $1500 though, again, mostly because it's a Baer...) which is an awesome $800 1911 (not $1200 1911), same with the PX modal, simply over-priced for what you get IMO...
Let's see...

Turn in your current Brownells catalog to page 87...

Forged frame & slide: $800+
Kart E-Z-fit barrel: ~$200
C&S lockwork: $130+

And we haven't even done extractor, ejector, slide stop, pins, trigger, sights, finishing, MSH, etc., let alone fitting and assembly.

$800 gets you a compromised gun, at best.

If you think you can duplicate a TRP or PX9111 for eight bills, well, you get down with your bad self. Having been in on the ground floor at a Type 07 setting up a custom/semicustom 1911 program, I can tell you that that's a pipe dream. Maybe if you're ordering parts by the thousand, you can get stuff down to the $1500 mark or lower, but I'm not betting on it.

[JHC]

I keep hearing that, but to me it looks more like a Mil-Spec w some added features to up the price. ;)

Well, they ALL look the same. ;)

[CK1]

Look, i just don't see the same things as far as fitting and attention to detail with the Springfield's or other 1911's around a grand that you get with an STI is all... Half of them need new fire control stuff to hold a good trigger job that'll last and just aren't fit as well, they're mass produced decent guns yeah, but bang-for-the-buck-wise I just find the STI's to be superior from what I've sampled...

[Tamara]

Look, i just don't see the same things as far as fitting and attention to detail with the Springfield's or other 1911's around a grand that you get with an STI is all...
Look, seriously, I don't want to be one of these jackholes that spouts "STAY IN YOUR LANE!" at every turn, but I'll buy every NIB PX9111 or Baer TRS you can get for "around a grand". Contact me via PM.

[SecondsCount]

Nothing "for show" with those per se, but, think the OP means a Springfield TRP (Baer TRS is a fine gun, more than $1500 though, again, mostly because it's a Baer...) which is an awesome $800 1911 (not $1200 1911), same with the PX modal, simply over-priced for what you get IMO...

Sorry dude if this sounds harsh but If you don't know the difference between an STI and a Les Baer then you shouldn't be giving out advice on the subject.

The Trojan seems like a solid pistol but the little parts are what count, and that is where they cut the corners.

[CK1]

So far the only thing I'm getting out of this back-and-forth banter is that some of you guys have real piss poor attitudes when it comes to having a discussion on a topic. It strikes me as kind of pointless to engage in any kind subjective discussion if all half of those involved want to do is add nothing, act as though they are an expert or THE authority on the subject, and then just decide to take the position that being critical of another's opinion they don't agree with is what equals good and worthwhile input.

Opinions are subjective, some prefer coke while some prefer Pepsi, some like Harley-davidsons and some like Hondas, that's fine... acting as if YOUR opinion is the only right opinion and then spending time knocking down others' opinions that have validity is just plain rude.

Tamara, whatever is your preference in 1911's that's great for you and I appreciate your points (just not your tone), and none of it discounts my opinion that the OP might want to consider looking at an STI (or any other option that one might bring up that matter).

Seconds Count, having read some of your past posts in other threads on the forum, I really could care less what your take is on just about any given subject, much less your opinion on mine (not to mention if you actually read the past posts you'd realize that your post makes no sense).


Sorry if I sound curt here, but c'mon this is just a subjective gun gear discussion and what has ensued is more typical of lesser forums around and probably part of the reason many of us have found this one looking for a break from that BS, the distasteful nonsense should cease.

[Kyle Reese]

Let's keep this civil, please.

[SecondsCount]

Somehow I feel like I just lost the special olympics.