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breakingtime91
09-27-2015, 11:35 PM
I am looking to set up a defensive 870. My questions are:

-sights

-How much ammo should the gun hold

-side saddle

-forend/light solution

-stock


thanks guys

WDW
09-28-2015, 12:03 AM
I am looking to set up a defensive 870. My questions are:

-sights

-How much ammo should the gun hold

-side saddle

-forend/light solution

-stock


thanks guys
1. Mesa Tac rail with Aimpoint Micro or the standard bead. I don't like GRS on shotguns, but you may. Can always try it,
2. Add +2 Nordic ext
3. I don't like side saddles so no comment
4. The Surefire forend is good but the magpul with rail & your choice of light is too
5. OEM stock works but I really like the Magpul stock
6. Your base gun needs to be a Police model or just get a 590A1 or M2. You literally could not give me a current production 870 express.

SecondsCount
09-28-2015, 12:33 AM
Buy one, run a couple hundred rounds through it, and then start adding the doodads. You may not want to change things after you play.

You can usually pick up an older one at pawn shops for pretty cheap. I got a Wingmaster for $150 that had a lot of finish wear but the action was nice and tight.

SkiDevil
09-28-2015, 03:28 AM
It sounds like you are looking for a home defense type shotgun. I have always been partial to the Wilson's Scattergun 12 GA Standard model.

I have one with a few thousand shells through it and it is a great shotgun. Not cheap, but worth the price. You didn't mention a budget or specific use. If money is tight, then I would second the suggestion of a used Police model or older Wingmaster as well.

I would conclude with the fact that most people don't shoot these type of defensive shotguns, so a used gun would likely have minimal wear.

Link:http://wilsoncombat.com/new/shotgun-standard.asp#.Vgj5w5rn9J8

SamuelBLong
09-28-2015, 07:20 AM
As others have mentioned start with an 870 police or Wingmaster as the base gun. I would look for slightly older 870P's or Wingmasters because the current production 870p's are not finished/smooth as the older ones. Don't worry if it's a little rough on the exterior, that's why they make cerrakote, moly-resin and whatnot.

Sights: at a minimum a bead on the pedestal (not bead on barrel). That will help you if you decide to start shooting slugs.

I prefer the scattergun tech sights, tritium front. A lot of people will tell you having a ghost ring sight is unnecessary and slow for a defensive shotgun... But I will tell you that they only enhance your capabilities to shoot the gun accurately at near and far ranges. As far as the slow/fast thing vs an open bead...based on my testing its not really an issue.

If you go with the scattergun tech / Trijicon front sight, make sure you have a gunsmith drill and cross pin the sight to the pedestal base for ultimate security.
A reliable red dot is awesome on the shotgun, however it gets pricey as you're talking another 400-700 bucks for a gun you probably won't shoot that often.

Mag Tube / Capacity: first off, capacity doesn't really matter much when it comes to shotguns. As Tom Givens explains in his excellent shotgun class, your effective ROF / Hits on target is higher than any other gun (typically).

So in summary... Shotgun fights don't last very long.

I run a VCS +2 because it's the sturdiest I've found. Other good extensions are Nordic and Wilson. I would recommend adding at least a +1 extension for added capacity and ease of loading the tube.

Sidesaddle: if you like them, I'd go with something that uses velcro cards. VCS makes good cards, as does 3Gun Gear. I got a big stack of the ones from SKD tactical for practice, they're ok, but not holding up as well as my 3Gun Gear cards.

I'm not a fan of the Tac-Star or Mesa Sidesaddles.

Light: if you can swing it, the new surefire 600 lumen fore-end is the way to go. Cons: it's heavy.

Another good way to go is use the magpul fore-end and run a light off of that.

Stock: needs to facilitate a 12-13" LOP so you can get behind the gun and be able to run the action. Magpul's stock is the clear winner for comfort and function. Hogue also makes a youth stock that is solid.

Other: I have the VCS system on my barrel. One reason I went with it is that my department, up until I demoed federal flight control ammo, had been running Remington reduced recoil 8 pellet 00 buck. With the VCS on my barrel, that load shoots almost as good as the Federal FC 9pel 00 and the Federal FC 1B loads do.

VCS isn't going to hurt anything... It just makes cheaper ammo perform better. In my testing, despite what others have said on other website forums, it doesn't hurt the Federal FC's performance.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rob_s
09-28-2015, 07:41 AM
I have bought two used, police trade in, 870s over the years (first was stolen from me, had to replace it) and have been very happy in both cases. I like the 18" barrel with rifle sights (changed out for Trijicons), and I cut down the stock to fit me. Side-saddle is a velcro thing I got from Raven Concealment awhile back so I can take it off if I don't want the added weight and bulk (I'd probably buy a 6-shell version of this (http://3gungear.corecommerce.com/Shotgungear/Side-Saddle/Straight-Side-Saddles-p86.html) today), and the light is attached via a picatinny rail section screwed to the forend for the same reason.

The shotgun, to me, is anachronistic (or, purpose-driven like 3-gun or birding), so I prefer to keep as little invested in it as possible. It's the closest I have to a "truck gun" as well, and I happen to think it's ideal in that regard (flexible ammo choices, wide range of applications, not a lot of cash invested if it's stolen).

UNK
09-28-2015, 09:23 AM
this is posted somewhere here but I cant find it. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=309034

BehindBlueI's
09-28-2015, 09:32 AM
1) The only thing I have experience with is the bead on a pedestal. Can't advise.
2) Largely irrelevant. People are down or fleeing before the shotgun is empty in every case I've seen it used (which, granted, isn't a lot since we got ARs and not a lot of civilians are using them for self defense)
3) Not a fan.
4) I have the surefire forend. I've used it to clear many houses and think it's the bee's knees. I haven't tried anything else, because the Surefire does everything I want it to.
5) Regular ol' fixed stock unless you have a reason for a folder. I did run a folder when I worked in an inner city area with old houses that typically had very narrow staircases. Like "would not pass code today" narrow. Like both shoulders rubbing the walls narrow. I would fold the stock before going into the stairwell and then pop it back open once I was back out in breathing room.

breakingtime91
09-28-2015, 11:41 AM
Anyone have a light set up with the magpul forend?

I am also leaning towards the hogue stock with 12 inch lop (I'm a small guy). Anyone recommend the magpul stock instead?

Default.mp3
09-28-2015, 12:17 PM
Anyone have a light set up with the magpul forend?I put an M600P Fury on mine, using the tailcap; thumbscrew mount onto an MOE cantilever Picatinny section (left side), to try and push the light as far forward as possible. I'd plan on running it always on if I were ever to use it. I've essentially zero shotgun experience, though, so who knows how well it works.

Irelander
09-28-2015, 01:22 PM
I like the looks of the Inforce rifle lights for shotgun use. Anyone have experience with those?

breakingtime91
09-28-2015, 01:30 PM
I like the looks of the Inforce rifle lights for shotgun use. Anyone have experience with those?

A friend of mine has one on his carbine and we have both been impressed. Where would you run it on the forend? I really like the looks of the surefire forend but its pricey..

Irelander
09-28-2015, 02:03 PM
A friend of mine has one on his carbine and we have both been impressed. Where would you run it on the forend? I really like the looks of the surefire forend but its pricey..

I haven't tried it but I would think if you installed one of those CDM Gear BMT Clamps like in the shotgunworld thread link, you could mount it right where that guy has his X300 mounted on the left hand side just ahead of the forend. You may be able to mount a small rail right on the forend too.

Irelander
09-28-2015, 02:17 PM
My 870 is a Express Tactical. I replaced the MIM extractor with a non-MIM one (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/receiver-action-parts/extractor-parts/extractors/extractor-non-mim-extractor-non-mim-sku767-161-760-10745-27187.aspx) and also replaced the carrier latch spring with this one (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carrier-springs/carrier-latch-spring-carrier-latch-spring-sku767-169-660-10763-27211.aspx). The extractor took a little bit of fitting but runs well now. I put a Wilson +2 mag extention on it too but that is it so far. I need to put more rounds through it and decide what I want to do about sights and accessories. These are fun guns and are tough as nails. Make sure not to baby the slide. They need to be run hard.

pablo
09-28-2015, 03:22 PM
Shoot first then change things......Plenty of cops have done good work with 4 and 5 shot bead sighted shotguns over the years, not saying that's ideal or we shouldn't look for better.

I have a 12" Hogue stock on a work shotgun, it's okay with armor. I think it's easier to run a shotgun with a slightly bladed stance, not HK squared up and not Camp Perry bladed. Honestly I think some people take the short LOP to the extreme. If you want to try out a 12" Hogue shoot me a PM, I have one that has a cracked recoil pad, it's still serviceable and free.

I really don't like the new Surefire DSF. It's too slick and the wedge shape of the light housing can beat the snot out of you pump hand index finger. All Surefire forends are heavy. I like the GG&G forends with a TLR, but I don't think those forends are being made anymore.

Esstac 5 round side saddles are what I use, I'm OCD and 5 rounds in a box to a 5 round side saddle works out well. 3gungear side saddles are nice, but the guy that runs the shop is a total flake and his shipping times are eventually.

Hambo
09-28-2015, 05:26 PM
I'm in the lean and mean camp. I wouldn't even leave a shotgun out of the safe except my wife's CWP instructor made a big deal about shotguns for HD and she was all for it. So I've got an 870 in the bedroom. Longest shot in the house is less than 30'.

Sights-870 bead/ramp
Capacity-4 rounds in the tube
Side saddle-transition to 92F if 4 rounds doesn't work
Light-old 3P in a cheesy clamp mount. Lights up the bead and is enough light to ID before BOOM.
Stock-Standard length. I don't wear Level III armor to bed and I'm a big dude so it works for me.

The only thing I'd put money into would be a better light/mount, but this is a low probability of deployment weapon for me.

mark7
09-29-2015, 02:54 AM
Anyone have a light set up with the magpul forend?

I am also leaning towards the hogue stock with 12 inch lop (I'm a small guy). Anyone recommend the magpul stock instead?

I'm a fan of the magpul stocks. I like the way they balance the gun. I also like the stippling on the pistol grip for easier control.

Converted all of our dept shotguns- they're all at 13" LOP. The troops love 'em.

The last conversion, last week:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/alf2109/870/IMAG0147_1_zps3wzlxux1.jpg

Tamara
09-29-2015, 04:05 PM
My 870 is a Express Tactical. I replaced the MIM extractor with a non-MIM one (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/receiver-action-parts/extractor-parts/extractors/extractor-non-mim-extractor-non-mim-sku767-161-760-10745-27187.aspx) ... The extractor took a little bit of fitting but runs well now.

^^^This is truth. If you do not check the extractor for fit when you install it, you could wind up clear across the country, prison-filing your extractor on the concrete out front of your hotel room in the middle of the night.

pablo
09-29-2015, 04:05 PM
Now that I just finished cleaning my 870, there is one thing that I would really recommend upgrading and that is the follower. The plastic followers and shot buffer do not play nice together. I use Nordics, but Vang and Brownells also make metal followers that seem fairly resistant to getting gummed up with buffer.

breakingtime91
09-29-2015, 05:18 PM
So the 870 I have on the way has the bead/pedestal. I saw that xs makes an easy to install night sight front for it. Any thoughts on those?

Tamara
09-29-2015, 07:01 PM
One of the few applications where XS's Big Dot doesn't annoy the bejeezus out of me. :)

pablo
09-29-2015, 08:34 PM
The XS is much easier to pick up and it'll help alleviate some of the shooting high problems that happen with the bead and pedestal. The drop in the heel of the stock is set for a barrel with a vent rib, which sits a bit higher than the bead and pedestal. A lot of folks end up patterning about 4" high at 15 yards with bead and pedestal. The big dot will add about .1" to the bead height and will help move the patterns down a couple inches.

breakingtime91
09-30-2015, 10:36 PM
So I'm thinking
-xs front (cheaper than sending the gun to a smith for something else)

-gun is coming with a +2 extension but if I don't like the balance I am considering a +1 from wilson. That will be nice because it comes with new spring and high viz follower

-Gonna try out the esstac shotgun card. Pretty cheap on skd and I like purchasing from them.

-Thinking I am gonna take the plunge and get the surefire. They can be had for $240 on ebay.

-Someone is sending me a 12 lop hogue to try against the stock. If I dislike either, I may grab a magpul stock.



*this is what I am thinking but I am going to shoot the gun first and make these decisions later. Only thing I know I want for sure is a light since this will be the gun I will most likely use in a home defense scenario.

Crusader8207
10-01-2015, 08:36 AM
breakingtime91, I have a Surefire DFS-870 that has been mounted on a shotgun but never really "used" if you are interested. I'll PM you the price.

shootist26
10-01-2015, 12:22 PM
So I'm thinking
-xs front (cheaper than sending the gun to a smith for something else)

-gun is coming with a +2 extension but if I don't like the balance I am considering a +1 from wilson. That will be nice because it comes with new spring and high viz follower

-Gonna try out the esstac shotgun card. Pretty cheap on skd and I like purchasing from them.

-Thinking I am gonna take the plunge and get the surefire. They can be had for $240 on ebay.

-Someone is sending me a 12 lop hogue to try against the stock. If I dislike either, I may grab a magpul stock.



*this is what I am thinking but I am going to shoot the gun first and make these decisions later. Only thing I know I want for sure is a light since this will be the gun I will most likely use in a home defense scenario.

Some people don't like the weight and price, but for me personally I could not dream of using anything other than the surefire forend. In my experience, it is best integrated system and is so much more comfortable and user friendly to operate than sticking a WML onto a railed forend. The bulge where the light sits makes a natural shelf for your hand that makes shooting with the "push-pull" technique easier. Plus, it is very comfortable to keep the light on while cycling the action should you need to.

I thought the esstac 7-round cards were good, but a bit too long. The loop tends to get in the way and stick itself to the velcro backing. I like the 5-round Ares cards better. Brass up. Always.

Currently running a Wilson +1 extension and like the balance it provides.

BehindBlueI's
10-01-2015, 12:27 PM
Some people don't like the weight and price, but for me personally I could not dream of using anything other than the surefire forend. In my experience, it is best integrated system and is so much more comfortable and user friendly to operate than sticking a WML onto a railed forend. The bulge where the light sits makes a natural shelf for your hand that makes shooting with the "push-pull" technique easier. Plus, it is very comfortable to keep the light on while cycling the action should you need to.

I thought the esstac 7-round cards were good, but a bit too long. The loop tends to get in the way and stick itself to the velcro backing. I like the 5-round Ares cards better. Brass up. Always.

Currently running a Wilson +1 extension and like the balance it provides.

I'd agree. I have an inforce on my patrol rifle, but it seems like it'd be a PITA to run with a pump shotgun.

breakingtime91
10-01-2015, 01:25 PM
Ya, I have an apl on my carbine (12 o clock) and love it but the surefire seemed like an easy choice. Thanks to someone on this forum (love this place) I bought one for a very good price. I am thinking a 5 round card will be the limit of what I want. I look forward to playing with it and decided if the +2 is where its at with the surefire forend or if something lighter may be better.

scw2
10-01-2015, 09:12 PM
Haha this thread makes me want to get a shotgun too. Gotta wait though, since I made a deal with myself to spend a year on my CZ and put money towards range, ammo and training, and get/build an AR for my "fun budget." Next year will probably a glock or something I'd like to transition to for carry, so that means I'll be able to learn from your experiences and get a shotgun in 2 years. Are there any trainers you have your eye on that run solid shotgun classes? The only one I know of is Tom Givens, but I'm sure there are more but I'm just ignorant in this area. :)

breakingtime91
10-01-2015, 09:27 PM
I want to take a class with Nyeti, not only because of his expertise with the shot gun but also his experience hunting/taking down bad guys in the states. Tom Givens is also on my list!

It kind of strikes a friend of mine weird that I want to use a 12gauge as my primary home defense tool, especially because my experience with an M4/AR. I didn't really have a good answer for him besides that I think the shot gun is an absolutely devastating weapon, especially in the distances that will be encountered within my home. It's also good to have two long guns in the house, god forbid I have to use one and it gets locked away as evidence for awhile. Much rather have that be a gun worth $600 then my AR and it would be nice to have an AR in case the guy has friends who come back later (Thanks Chuck, that comment gave me a lot to think about)..

SpyderMan2k4
10-02-2015, 08:09 AM
The sky is the limit on what you can do to 870s. I disagree that you should absolutely avoid the express line like the plague, but there's a number of upgrades that should be considered absolutely necessary. The last year I've put in an above average amount of time in with a shotgun and taken a few classes (two with Chris Fry, one with Steve Moses, Tom Givens, and Steve Fisher each.)

If you've got an express, absolutely polish the chamber with a cleaning brush and fine steel wool attached to a drill, as well as replacing the MIM extractor with a machined one. There's a few springs that should be replaced too. These are very inexpensive things to replace and should be considered mandatory.

There's not a single factory follower out there that's worth a crap that I've seen. Remington, Mossberg, Beretta... All terrible. I've used S&J, GG&G, and Vang Comp. They all feed and load WAY easier and smoother. I prefer the S&J: it's bright green machined delrin... Delrin is SUPER slick, the bright green is much easier to see (easy to tell between it and a shell), and it is easy to feel the difference between it and a shell. It's cheap too, I think I paid $20 for the follower and a new spring. This should also be considered mandatory (whatever follower you choose).

A better safety on the 870 is also REALLY high on my list. You need to be safe, and taking the safety off quickly is important. I've played with the Wilson and have the Vang Comp dome safety on mine... I prefer the VC. I think it's around $15... It's a no brainer.

More ammo is good- shotguns run dry REALLY fast. Wilson and Nordic are probably the best bets for aftermarket extensions. Shell carriers are personal preference, but extra ammo is good. I prefer them on the receiver, others like them on the stock for balance. I've never had an issue with them on the receiver and its faster to load from.

I don't care for lights attached to the forend. I've tried a number of locations and setups and they all beat the hell out of my hand under recoil. At this point my preference goes to a barrel/mag tube clamp with a rail section. I'll use a scope ring to mount a handheld light with a clicky switch.

The Magpul stock is the best shotgun stock ever designed by far, and I really haven't seen anyone disagree.

At home defense, across the room distances, sights aren't that important... A bead can with, ghost rings can work, optics can work. Practice will be more important.

Regardless, invest in dummy rounds. These should be considered mandatory, especially for a pump. Practice loading and running the action. A lot. Then do some more. Brownells has a box of 25 for around $25-30. I've tried a few kinds and those are overall my favorite (they are clear and loaded with birdshot, but have a spent primer and no powder, so the are a realistic weight.

Good luck!

LSP972
10-03-2015, 09:55 AM
I'm going to go against the grain here, OP. Keep in mind that these are my thoughts, geared toward my situation/expectations…

While nothing legal and readily available can surpass the pure lethality of a shotgun indoors, IMO when you load one up with lights, side-saddles, VangComp whatevers, ghost ring sights, etc., you are seriously compromising the handiness and manueverability of the weapon. Going into caves after hardened fighters? You bet, give me a super-bright light, good sighting options, and as much capacity as I can get. Defending my house against your basic home invader? Give me something light, quick-handling, and uncluttered.

I know, I know, a white light is important… for a primary-use weapon. My HD shotgun is a repel-boarders tool for if that should occur during my waking hours. If I need to respond to something in the middle of the night, I'm going to grab the pistol on my night stand… and it has a light. Any extended drama scenario… power outage due to weather or whatever, etc., will see a optic/white light carbine come out of the safe.

What I'm getting at here is, unless you have a specific need to do so, expending time and resources on uber-tricking out a shotgun would likely be better spent on something else. A short, light, quick-handling pump 12 gauge is a fearsome force multiplier in CQB situations that are over quickly; such as home invasions met by a home-owner who was ready for it. Weigh that same gun down with all sorts of tactical bullshit, and suddenly it is not so quick-handling.

Just my thoughts; YMMV.

.

breakingtime91
10-03-2015, 10:10 AM
I'm going to go against the grain here, OP. Keep in mind that these are my thoughts, geared toward my situation/expectations…

While nothing legal and readily available can surpass the pure lethality of a shotgun indoors, IMO when you load one up with lights, side-saddles, VangComp whatevers, ghost ring sights, etc., you are seriously compromising the handiness and manueverability of the weapon. Going into caves after hardened fighters? You bet, give me a super-bright light, good sighting options, and as much capacity as I can get. Defending my house against your basic home invader? Give me something light, quick-handling, and uncluttered.

I know, I know, a white light is important… for a primary-use weapon. My HD shotgun is a repel-boarders tool for if that should occur during my waking hours. If I need to respond to something in the middle of the night, I'm going to grab the pistol on my night stand… and it has a light. Any extended drama scenario… power outage due to weather or whatever, etc., will see a optic/white light carbine come out of the safe.

What I'm getting at here is, unless you have a specific need to do so, expending time and resources on uber-tricking out a shotgun would likely be better spent on something else. A short, light, quick-handling pump 12 gauge is a fearsome force multiplier in CQB situations that are over quickly; such as home invasions met by a home-owner who was ready for it. Weigh that same gun down with all sorts of tactical bullshit, and suddenly it is not so quick-handling.

Just my thoughts; YMMV.

.

Thanks, I appreciate your opinion.

SpyderMan2k4
10-03-2015, 04:31 PM
Are these (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/cartridge-dummies/12-gauge-action-proving-dummies-sku080001086-67708-137744.aspx) the ones you are referring to?

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/cartridge-dummies/12-gauge-action-proving-dummies-sku080001086-67708-137744.aspx

Apparently the specific ones I have are now discontinued, but those seem to be very similar.

pablo
10-03-2015, 04:56 PM
Are these (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/cartridge-dummies/12-gauge-action-proving-dummies-sku080001086-67708-137744.aspx) the ones you are referring to?

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/cartridge-dummies/12-gauge-action-proving-dummies-sku080001086-67708-137744.aspx

I'd recommend the ST Action dummies. They cost about the same, but there are a couple manufacturers, Fiochi for sure, that produce rounds with clear hulls. If somehow one of those gets mixed into your dummies, you may end up with a really loud click when you pull the trigger.

https://www.gtdist.com/s-t-action-pro-inc-action-trainer-dummy-rounds.html

rob_s
10-05-2015, 08:02 AM
I'm going to go against the grain here, OP. Keep in mind that these are my thoughts, geared toward my situation/expectations…

While nothing legal and readily available can surpass the pure lethality of a shotgun indoors, IMO when you load one up with lights, side-saddles, VangComp whatevers, ghost ring sights, etc., you are seriously compromising the handiness and manueverability of the weapon. Going into caves after hardened fighters? You bet, give me a super-bright light, good sighting options, and as much capacity as I can get. Defending my house against your basic home invader? Give me something light, quick-handling, and uncluttered.

I know, I know, a white light is important… for a primary-use weapon. My HD shotgun is a repel-boarders tool for if that should occur during my waking hours. If I need to respond to something in the middle of the night, I'm going to grab the pistol on my night stand… and it has a light. Any extended drama scenario… power outage due to weather or whatever, etc., will see a optic/white light carbine come out of the safe.

What I'm getting at here is, unless you have a specific need to do so, expending time and resources on uber-tricking out a shotgun would likely be better spent on something else. A short, light, quick-handling pump 12 gauge is a fearsome force multiplier in CQB situations that are over quickly; such as home invasions met by a home-owner who was ready for it. Weigh that same gun down with all sorts of tactical bullshit, and suddenly it is not so quick-handling.

Just my thoughts; YMMV.

.

That's an interesting opinion, and one I can't say I find fault with.

The good news is that in this day and age one can have their cake and eat it too. While I'd be disinclined to "upgrade" the furniture without good reason, a basic police-trade-in 870 can be quickly made better with sights and (depending on how it came) an extension. Mine wears Trijicons and a +1 but it's all a matter of personal preference there.

Then, with judicious use of velcro and picatinny rail sections you can add mounting points for additional options should you need/want them. This is why I've standardized on the X300 series of lights for all my guns, because I can own only 3 of said lights but use them on far more than 3 guns. I actually have a velcro patch on my receiver opposite the ejection port and on my stock on the ejection port side just to have more places to add ammo if I ever needed to. The Picatinny rail and velcro patches don't negatively affect the points LSP makes above, but do allow for greater flexibility.

Beat Trash
10-05-2015, 10:40 AM
I spent a lot of years with an 870. I've kind of gotten away from using one since my agency started it's patrol rifle program in 2005. I used to be rather proficient with one, once upon a time.

Before I go any farther, I want to say that I truly believe that it takes a fair amount of regular practice to run an 870 at speed. I've seen many shooters that can operate an 870 faster than a Remington 1100. But those same instructors will also admit that if they don't practice regularly, the skill deteriorates.

To me, a shotgun like the 870 is a limited purpose weapon. But within it's limitations, what it does, it does very well. For a gun to "Repel Borders" like LSP972 is referring to, I want something lively and fast in my hands.

The usual tendency of younger guys starting out with a shotgun is to set it up like their AR. I think this is because they are going with what's familiar to them. If it works for you, great. I've handled some of these guns and they are as lively in the hand as driving an RV with a flat tire.

I like to keep my 870's simple. I went to Lowes and bought some industrial velcro/tape. Put a piece on the receiver. IF I feel the need, I can stick a shotgun card with 7 shells on the receiver.

http://www.skdtac.com/Esstac-Shotgun-Card-p/ess.106.htm

The problem with this is that even this tends to throw the balance off a bit for me.

My agency goes the El Chepo route and uses the Uncle Mikes elastic shotgun shell butt sleeve. They are good for about 6-12 months before they are stretched out and need replaced. But I've done so much training with them that it's more natural for me to do a tactical read from this position.

I've tried magazine tube extensions. Some work. Some have issues if installed too tight. Some come loose if installed too loose. I am at the point of taking the extensions off of my 870's. I do own an 870 express that holds 6 shells without an extension. The tube is one piece. This gun has had a lot of it's parts "upgraded" by one of my armors, so I feel comfortable using it for social purposes. But I am so used to the balance and feel of a gun with 4 shells, that when fully loaded, this gun feels muzzle heavy.

My son conned me into trying a MagPul stock and hand guard on one of my 870's. He loved the setup on his gun. But then he's about 2-3" taller than I am, with arms to match. I actually liked the setup, especially the ability to adjust the length of pull on the stock. But then, I could live just fine with the factory stock and hand guard. Depending on the build of the individual, maybe saw off the factory stock or get a youth model. I tried a light on the magPul hand guard. Great idea, until I fired the gun. I kept jamming the end of my support thumb on the base of the light during recoil. I am looking into some type of barrel/mag tube rail mount for a light.

So at the end of the day, for a HD shotgun, I value reliability, handiness and maneuverability. So my ideal HD shotgun would be a base gun with the El Chepo Uncle Mikes butt sleeve (only because it is what I am used to). Lube it and load it and be done. But my shotgun is not my primary defensive gun. If it was, I would attach a small piece of rail to the hand guard or get a MagPul hand guard and install a light, and learn to move the thumb out of the way.

LSP972
10-05-2015, 11:08 AM
Then, with judicious use of velcro...

I understand your concept… but velcro??? Perhaps I'm behind the "times"… but even the industrial-strength velcro I've used for other applications... well, I just don't see it holding up to vigorous manipulations, 12 gauge recoil, etc. I assume you're referring to gluing a patch of the stuff onto a stock/receiver/fore-end and attaching an accessory directly onto said patch?

I actually have a piece of pic rail screwed into the fore-end of my HD 870, so I can slap a TLR-1 on there if I feel the need. And my Beretta 390 DudeShooter has a nylon butt cuff, holding five more shells, wrapped around the stock and held by velcro. That, works. But the other… dunno, perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

.

breakingtime91
10-05-2015, 11:23 AM
I understand your concept… but velcro??? Perhaps I'm behind the "times"… but even the industrial-strength velcro I've used for other applications... well, I just don't see it holding up to vigorous manipulations, 12 gauge recoil, etc. I assume you're referring to gluing a patch of the stuff onto a stock/receiver/fore-end and attaching an accessory directly onto said patch?

I actually have a piece of pic rail screwed into the fore-end of my HD 870, so I can slap a TLR-1 on there if I feel the need. And my Beretta 390 DudeShooter has a nylon butt cuff, holding five more shells, wrapped around the stock and held by velcro. That, works. But the other… dunno, perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

.

Industrial sticky velcro seems to be quite durable, at least for the people I know who have been running it on their shot guns. Not sure if it would stand up to duty use but for hd it seems like an easy/cheap solution. I am probably gonna go this route and I'll watch for any issues.

rob_s
10-05-2015, 12:22 PM
I understand your concept… but velcro??? Perhaps I'm behind the "times"… but even the industrial-strength velcro I've used for other applications... well, I just don't see it holding up to vigorous manipulations, 12 gauge recoil, etc. I assume you're referring to gluing a patch of the stuff onto a stock/receiver/fore-end and attaching an accessory directly onto said patch?

I actually have a piece of pic rail screwed into the fore-end of my HD 870, so I can slap a TLR-1 on there if I feel the need. And my Beretta 390 DudeShooter has a nylon butt cuff, holding five more shells, wrapped around the stock and held by velcro. That, works. But the other… dunno, perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

.

Yes, Velcro

http://3gungear.corecommerce.com/Side-Saddle-c27/

LSP972
10-05-2015, 02:20 PM
Yes, Velcro

http://3gungear.corecommerce.com/Side-Saddle-c27/

"Just peal and stick…" :)

Okay, got it, thanks.

I'll pass.

.

pablo
10-05-2015, 09:53 PM
I've had the same pieces of velcro (that's real 3m velcro) on my work gun for the last 3 years and it's still doing fine. It's gets heated to 130 in the summer, frozen in the winter, bounced around in gun racks, goes to the range a couple times a month, etc. The only people that I'm aware having problems with velcro are using it on painted finishes. I run a piece on the side of the receiver and one on the stock. I keep a 5 round shell strip on the gun, usually it's on the receiver, but if I get a car with a Big Sky rack I moved it to the stock.

I've had a lot fewer problems with velcro than I had with the self destructing tacstar/wilson side saddles and the rubber tubes in Mesa saddles that would eventually give out.

HCM
10-06-2015, 12:34 AM
I've been using these : http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/moduloader-shotshell-plates/

I've been using them about 3 years on my duty shotgun. Far better than the Tac star side saddles. The Velcro and glue have survived three Texas summers in a vehicle gun box.

LSP972
10-06-2015, 08:01 AM
I've had the same pieces of velcro (that's real 3m velcro) on my work gun for the last 3 years and it's still doing fine. It's gets heated to 130 in the summer, frozen in the winter, bounced around in gun racks, goes to the range a couple times a month, etc. The only people that I'm aware having problems with velcro are using it on painted finishes. I run a piece on the side of the receiver and one on the stock. I keep a 5 round shell strip on the gun, usually it's on the receiver, but if I get a car with a Big Sky rack I moved it to the stock.

I've had a lot fewer problems with velcro than I had with the self destructing tacstar/wilson side saddles and the rubber tubes in Mesa saddles that would eventually give out.

Interesting. That's exactly the kind of use I was talking about.

Guess I need to get out more…;)

.

rob_s
10-06-2015, 08:17 AM
I've been using these : http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/moduloader-shotshell-plates/

I've been using them about 3 years on my duty shotgun. Far better than the Tac star side saddles. The Velcro and glue have survived three Texas summers in a vehicle gun box.

That's actually what I have too. Wasn't sure if they were still making them or not.

pablo
10-06-2015, 11:22 AM
Interesting. That's exactly the kind of use I was talking about.

Guess I need to get out more…;)

.

I know the feeling. Sometimes I start reading about what is "needed" for duty/HD guns and wonder what decade I got left behind in.

Here my twins, the duty gun is on the right and the HD/BUG on the left. Nothing fancy (well super fancy compared to what available from the patrol armory), just something that's quick into action and good enough for most situations. I do agree with you on the don't make it too fancy part.

http://i.imgur.com/T848rBh.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/T848rBh)

LSP972
10-07-2015, 06:58 AM
Sometimes I start reading about what is "needed" for duty/HD guns and wonder what decade I got left behind in.



Exactly.

Do you shoot off of your left shoulder?

.

pablo
10-07-2015, 07:55 AM
Do you shoot off of your left shoulder?


I do a lot of it on the range, which is why I try to run the side saddle on the receiver. I think it has a lot of value as a training tool for getting out of comfort zones. Running a shotgun on the offside is awkward and the pump just makes it worse. I don't think it has much tactical value because I shoot so much better on the strong side.

pablo
10-07-2015, 08:01 AM
.......................................

LSP972
10-07-2015, 08:04 AM
Okay; just wondering why your white light is on the right side of the gun. How do you work the switch when shooting from your right shoulder?

.

breakingtime91
10-07-2015, 09:13 AM
Okay; just wondering why your white light is on the right side of the gun. How do you work the switch when shooting from your right shoulder?

.

I'm not pablo but you could reach under the foregrip and toggle the switch, I believe the TLR is press in for light. It would take some practice but it is probably the best set up to avoid light NDs

pablo
10-07-2015, 09:14 AM
Okay; just wondering why your white light is on the right side of the gun. How do you work the switch when shooting from your right shoulder?

.

Left hand index finger working the rocker, push out for momentary. My finger doesn't get banged up by recoil, and the light is high enough on the gun that it will spill light on the bead. I've tried a 6p on the other side and that was just painful to shoot.

LSP972
10-07-2015, 12:32 PM
Left hand index finger working the rocker, push out for momentary. My finger doesn't get banged up by recoil, and the light is high enough on the gun that it will spill light on the bead. I've tried a 6p on the other side and that was just painful to shoot.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

.

LSP972
10-07-2015, 12:35 PM
I'm not pablo but you could reach under the foregrip and toggle the switch, I believe the TLR is press in for light.

No, its a rocker switch; works at ninety degrees to the light's axis.

Which is why I prefer the TLR-1 to any SureFire. The SureFire switch works on the same axis as the light; press "in", IOW. That is not a natural movement for me.

.

breakingtime91
10-10-2015, 03:14 PM
Shot my 870 today, its a really fun gun to shoot. The thing that left me really impressed was flight control buckshot.. It stayed ridiculously tight all the way out to 35 yards.. At the longest distance of my home (+/- 15 yards) two rounds in the head split the idpa target head zone in half.. Pretty cool.

breakingtime91
10-28-2015, 12:37 PM
Got my 870 set up and squared away. Have a question though, I have the newest surefire forend on it. When tightened/installed one side (left) is significantly closer to the barrel. I think this is because when you tighten the nut to install the forend, you push the forend to the right from the pressure. Any tips to make sure they are even or does it not matter?

farscott
10-29-2015, 06:21 AM
Got my 870 set up and squared away. Have a question though, I have the newest surefire forend on it. When tightened/installed one side (left) is significantly closer to the barrel. I think this is because when you tighten the nut to install the forend, you push the forend to the right from the pressure. Any tips to make sure they are even or does it not matter?

When you do the install, hold the gun vertically (muzzle up) and insure the bolt is not locked. That should allow the action bars to be centered. If the issue still occurs, one or both of the action bars may be bent. If the action is binding when the gun is cycled, take a look at the action bars and the shell stops. I had one 870 where the left shell stop was not properly staked in the action.

As far as outfitting an 870 for HD, the most important issue is stock fit for both felt recoil (especially with slugs) and pointing (assuming no rear sight added). Spending time fitting an HD (actually any) shotgun to the user and patterning it is well worth the time and expense. Be sure to pattern the gun with the ammo you intend to use as different loads have different POA/POI shifts.

I run the Speedfeed IV-S stocks for the shorter length of pull, an old MMC ghost-ring, and an XS front bead on one gun. The other just has a brass front bead and a short stock. Both guns have 18.5" barrels. The bead-sighted gun is faster and quite accurate with slugs up to about 25 yards. The ghost-ring gun is very accurate with slugs up to about 50 yards, but the sight picture is slower to process. I have messed with the Surefire DSF-870 forend on the ghost ring gun, and it is helpful.

I am not a fan of side saddles as I find they mess with the balance and handling of the gun as well as just getting in my way. I rather just run a +1 extension and get by with five rounds, as that should be enough for HD usage.

pablo
10-29-2015, 06:51 AM
Got my 870 set up and squared away. Have a question though, I have the newest surefire forend on it. When tightened/installed one side (left) is significantly closer to the barrel. I think this is because when you tighten the nut to install the forend, you push the forend to the right from the pressure. Any tips to make sure they are even or does it not matter?

If you look at the inside of the forend, where the actions bars are attached to the forend tube, there will be a gap between the action bars and forend. What you'll have is a gap about an 1/8" on the right side and the left action bar will be pressed against the forend. The smartest way to fix this without bending you action bars, make a shim about half the width of the gap, loosen the forend nut, install the shim on the left side, retighten the nut and pull out the shim.

If it's not binding then it's just a cosmetic issue.

breakingtime91
10-29-2015, 07:59 AM
If you look at the inside of the forend, where the actions bars are attached to the forend tube, there will be a gap between the action bars and forend. What you'll have is a gap about an 1/8" on the right side and the left action bar will be pressed against the forend. The smartest way to fix this without bending you action bars, make a shim about half the width of the gap, loosen the forend nut, install the shim on the left side, retighten the nut and pull out the shim.

If it's not binding then it's just a cosmetic issue.

That's what I needed! Works perfectly, just looked wrong..

LSP552
10-29-2015, 09:58 AM
BT, I haven't owned an 870 in 10 years, using a carbine for HD and semi and over unders for hunting. But, for some strange reason, this thread has me looking at them again. Nostalgic I guess. Thanks for helping me spend some money. :D

breakingtime91
10-29-2015, 10:08 AM
BT, I haven't owned an 870 in 10 years, using a carbine for HD and semi and over unders for hunting. But, for some strange reason, this thread has me looking at them again. Nostalgic I guess. Thanks for helping me spend some money. :D

Anytime :cool: I went to stay with some friends in a cabin last weekend and it made me feel nice to have a 870 loaded with 6 slugs..

breakingtime91
11-09-2015, 12:42 PM
So I am sold on the shotgun for home defense.. After researching ballistics and watching/reading about shootings with a 12 gauge I am of the opinion that a shotgun is a great fighting tool, especially indoors. With that said, I am wondering about putting a red dot on mine, especially after reading/listening to Nyeti's preference for them. What would be the easiest way to get a red dot on my gun. If its drill and tap, whos the best person I can send it to?

23JAZ
11-09-2015, 01:22 PM
Anytime :cool: I went to stay with some friends in a cabin last weekend and it made me feel nice to have a 870 loaded with 6 slugs..

It's amazing how having a 1/3 of a pound of lead on tap will do that.

Dagga Boy
11-15-2015, 06:43 PM
So I am sold on the shotgun for home defense.. After researching ballistics and watching/reading about shootings with a 12 gauge I am of the opinion that a shotgun is a great fighting tool, especially indoors. With that said, I am wondering about putting a red dot on mine, especially after reading/listening to Nyeti's preference for them. What would be the easiest way to get a red dot on my gun. If its drill and tap, whos the best person I can send it to?

I'd check with Vang comp or Robar.

Cookie Monster
11-15-2015, 07:42 PM
I'd check with Vang comp or Robar.


If you got the add the ghost ring sights, they are sweet. Get you killed on the street though. Vang comp that is.

breakingtime91
11-15-2015, 07:44 PM
If you got the add the ghost ring sights, they are sweet. Get you killed on the street though. Vang comp that is.

so confused by this post lol

Rex G
11-15-2015, 09:21 PM
If you got the add the ghost ring sights, they are sweet. Get you killed on the street though. Vang comp that is.

Please explain.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
11-15-2015, 09:28 PM
I'd check with Vang comp or Robar.

I had a local gunsmith (discovered he was a gun-plumber) add the VC rail w/ a GR rear (from Brownells) to the older & rattle canned VC 870 on top.

As soon as I installed the various items to the black VC 870 bought last year (set both up identically), I sent the older camo'd 870 back to Hans so they could CORRECT the botched gun-plumber install. In hindsight (yes always 20/20) I should have gone there first, buy once cry once.

Heed Darryl's sage advice above, either VC or Robar will give you quality & professional results.

breakingtime91
11-15-2015, 09:31 PM
I had a local gunsmith (discovered he was a gun-plumber) add the VC rail w/ a GR rear (from Brownells) to the older & rattle canned VC 870 on top.

As soon as I installed the various items to the black VC 870 bought last year (set both up identically), I sent the older camo'd 870 back to Hans so they could CORRECT the botched gun-plumber install. In hindsight (yes always 20/20) I should have gone there first, buy once cry once.

Heed Darryl's sage advice above, either VC or Robar will give you quality & professional results.

You sent it to VC? How much was it

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
11-15-2015, 09:53 PM
You sent it to VC? How much was it

I'll have to look it up later this week but not really relevant as they just had to do some minor repairs due to the original install.

Call 'em next week, I found their comm. skills to be VG. One of my call backs was from Hans & he became very engaged once I told him that we train in Jerry & Jim's personal bays, seems the Clarks & Miculeks go way back, who knew.

Cookie Monster
11-16-2015, 01:48 AM
so confused by this post lol

Sorry, pistol-forum and a few pints don't mix.

I got a 870 with Vang Comp rail on top and their ghost ring sights. Awesome set-up, you can hit steel plates with slugs from 100 yards.

Some writers of shotgun lore will tell you ghost ring sights will get you killed on the street.

Check Vang Comp website, I think they run like a few hundred installed.

Rex G
11-16-2015, 08:31 AM
Sorry, pistol-forum and a few pints don't mix.

I got a 870 with Vang Comp rail on top and their ghost ring sights. Awesome set-up, you can hit steel plates with slugs from 100 yards.

Some writers of shotgun lore will tell you ghost ring sights will get you killed on the street.

(snipped)



Well, in that case, it is a good thing I am using a mere bead sight on my 870P's Vang-comped barrel! ;)

breakingtime91
11-16-2015, 09:03 AM
Sorry, pistol-forum and a few pints don't mix.

I got a 870 with Vang Comp rail on top and their ghost ring sights. Awesome set-up, you can hit steel plates with slugs from 100 yards.

Some writers of shotgun lore will tell you ghost ring sights will get you killed on the street.

Check Vang Comp website, I think they run like a few hundred installed.

Thanks, been debating sending it for a once over, ghost ring install, and a vang comp barrel

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
11-16-2015, 09:25 AM
Thanks, been debating sending it for a once over, ghost ring install, and a vang comp barrel

I highly encourage anyone looking @ going down a sim. path as mentioned above subscribe to the VC newsletter.

Why you say? Approx. 10 days ago I received an email from VC as they had a run of blem'd 870 VComped barrels FS @ $175.00

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
11-16-2015, 07:32 PM
a pic. showing mine, my partner & Serious Students 870's @ a HITs SG class last year.

DB's HK w/ a T1 (yeah big shock) is @ the top, as only 3 of us used optics, Bill were you the other one?

4418

SeriousStudent
11-16-2015, 07:51 PM
Correct, the bottom two 870's in the picture are mine.

Not in the frame is the 870 SBS and the Winchester Model 12 break-down shotty - aka, "The Ronco Pocket Shotgun". :cool:

SeriousStudent
11-16-2015, 07:53 PM
And I might be wrong, but I think the fourth from the top is Wayne's 590. I remember he had a Mossberg in that class, being a southpaw.

David S.
11-16-2015, 08:39 PM
I think it's time for HiTs to run another shotgun class.

For Surefire forends, how does the new DSF- compare to the older 318LM/618LM? I read something somewhere about kill power switch on the DSF units that can be left in the wrong position. Not sure if this is really an issue or if just internet silliness.

breakingtime91
11-16-2015, 09:59 PM
I think it's time for HiTs to run another shotgun class.

For Surefire forends, how does the new DSF- compare to the older 318LM/618LM? I read something somewhere about kill power switch on the DSF units that can be left in the wrong position. Not sure if this is really an issue or if just internet silliness.

what do you mean left in the wrong position? You have a master on/off switch. You have to intentionally turn it off or on, I can't see how it would accidentally bump off. I really like mine so far and find it easy to work either momentary or constant. Works really well for the "bow and arrow" technique also.

45dotACP
11-16-2015, 10:13 PM
Sorry, pistol-forum and a few pints don't mix.

I got a 870 with Vang Comp rail on top and their ghost ring sights. Awesome set-up, you can hit steel plates with slugs from 100 yards.

Some writers of shotgun lore will tell you ghost ring sights will get you killed on the street.

Check Vang Comp website, I think they run like a few hundred installed.

Damn, thank God all those guys using rifles for close quarters bad guy killin don't know that rifle sights would get them killed! :D

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
11-16-2015, 11:17 PM
And I might be wrong, but I think the fourth from the top is Wayne's 590. I remember he had a Mossberg in that class, being a southpaw.

For some reason I don't recall Wayne being there. I do recall you shooting on my right plus your DPC board member (Karen perhaps?) forgetting to snug the gauge DB loaned her, receiving a nice shoulder bruise & not shooting the afternoon block. A motley crew below no doubt.
4422

David S.
11-17-2015, 10:16 AM
what do you mean left in the wrong position? You have a master on/off switch. You have to intentionally turn it off or on, I can't see how it would accidentally bump off. I really like mine so far and find it easy to work either momentary or constant. Works really well for the "bow and arrow" technique also.

After a bit more reading it appears the aforementioned battery issue has been resolved.

pablo
11-17-2015, 10:30 AM
The first iteration of the DSF had a slow drain battery problem. For all the internet hysteria, it would take months for it to kill off a set of batteries.
If your DSF has the serial number printed on the outside of the light bezel, it's the updated version that fixes the slow drain. Surefire will replace older heads under warranty.

breakingtime91
11-17-2015, 05:53 PM
Good to know Pablo. Just got off the phone with Mr. Hanz Vang and man that was a fun conversation. He really went the extra mile to get to know me and discuss what I was looking for. He also made sure that I had basic shotgun knowledge before I went in to deep on what I wanted. I know what I am getting with tax money this year solely based off that conversation.

shootist26
11-17-2015, 06:18 PM
a pic. showing mine, my partner & Serious Students 870's @ a HITs SG class last year.

DB's HK w/ a T1 (yeah big shock) is @ the top, as only 3 of us used optics, Bill were you the other one?

4418
These are the shotguns of people who know what they are doing. Good lights, proper fitting stocks, real sights etc.

I went to a local shotgun class last year and it was filled with shotguns with m4 stocks, heatshields, railed forends with nothing on them, and breacher/novelty muzzle devices...bleh

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

SeriousStudent
11-17-2015, 08:33 PM
For some reason I don't recall Wayne being there. I do recall you shooting on my right plus your DPC board member (Karen perhaps?) forgetting to snug the gauge DB loaned her, receiving a nice shoulder bruise & not shooting the afternoon block. A motley crew below no doubt.
4422

I guess Wayne was not there. I remember he was at the original class.

And that's a scary bunch of folks. I bet there's probably 9 or 10 pistols between four of them.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
12-22-2015, 12:32 AM
Earlier today I received the email below, VCS is running a special on porting etc. your barrel, $100. off retail.


* Save $100!!!
Secret Sale only for our Subscribers
Get the Vang Comp System barrel modification installed on your barrel for only $175. FREE return shipping.
Click the image below, add a barrel job to your cart and use coupon code HoHoHo at checkout.

Upgrade your 12ga or 20ga shotgun barrel with Vang Comp's patented system of lengthening the forcing cone, backboring and adding compensation ports.
•Get tighter shot patterns
•Faster follow-up shots
•Less felt recoil
•Less muzzle flip
•Less muzzle flash
All without having to worry about maintaining a screw-in choke or being sure the type of ammunition you are using is compatible with your choke.
All you have to do is go to our online store, add the barrel upgrade service to your cart and use coupon code HoHoHo.

Thanks for your business and have a Merry Christmas!
Forward

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Vang Comp Systems, Inc
2805 N. Hwy 89, Unit C, Chino Valley, AZ 86323
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breakingtime91
01-16-2016, 02:03 PM
anyone got a list of things to check on the 870? I originally planed on sending it to Vang comp but I have my first kid on the way so that $ is needed else where.

scw2
01-16-2016, 05:08 PM
anyone got a list of things to check on the 870? I originally planed on sending it to Vang comp but I have my first kid on the way so that $ is needed else where.

This reply won't do you any good with your 870, but congrats!

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
04-01-2016, 06:40 PM
Just got an email from Hans & Co. & they are selling 5 NIB VCS 870s @ $595.00 selectively before the public announcement next week.


Vang Comp Systems, Inc
Having problems? View this email in your browser


Get a Vang Comp Remington 870 for only $595.00
NEW for 2016, this entry-level shotgun marks the first Vang Comp 870 available for under $600. We start with a Remington 870 12ga, 18" barrel with bead sights and synthetic stocks, then we add our patented Vang Comp barrel modification with compensation ports, Dome Head Safety switch and 12ga Stainless Steel magazine follower. These are available exclusively from our official shotgun distributor - Freedom Firearms.

There are only 5 of these shotguns available and we are releasing them to you guys on our email list before we announce them to the public later this weekend because you guys are special to us. By signing up for this newsletter you show a level of interest in our company that is more personal than Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and we appreciate that so you get special treatment.

Contact Freedom Firearms to order yours today; first come, first served:
via Phone: (702) 438-4867
via email: info@freedomgunstore.com



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2805 N. Hwy 89, Unit C, Chino Valley, AZ 86323
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Edster
04-01-2016, 10:38 PM
Just a few notes from my modest experience setting up an 870P over the last couple of years:

I have a first-generation SureFire forearm on an older Express. It's heavy and the grip is too slick. Skateboard tape made it much better. It is simple, solid, and reliable. I am on the lookout for another one.

I'm wary of the current SureFires. I just don't believe I need the different high/low beam options. Plus it sounds like the circuit causes battery drain even when off. Given that a home defense shotgun is usually going to sit in a safe without much attention... until it is REALLY needed to work, that seems like a problem.

Based on my experience, I strongly advise against the Inforce WML on a shotgun. I bought one, mounted it to the forearm, and the bezel came off the body after just a few rounds.

Right now, I have a MagPul forearm with a very short rail, a VLTOR QD offset light mount, and a simple SureFire G2 hanging to the right side of the gun. I can operate it with either my left hand index finger or right hand thumb. It is still not as elegant as the original SureFire forearm but it's simple, it works, and I can quickly remove it if I want a flashlight without a gun attached.

For sights, I got the 870P with rifle sights, then replaced the sights with a set of Ameriglo night sights. I really like this setup. The Ameriglos give a sight picture that is identical to my handgun and much faster than Remington's stock rifle sights. I bring the gun up and the sights are "right there" with no effort.

Bigghoss
04-02-2016, 04:42 AM
Just got an email from Hans & Co. & they are selling 5 NIB VCS 870s @ $595.00 selectively before the public announcement next week.


Vang Comp Systems, Inc
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Get a Vang Comp Remington 870 for only $595.00
NEW for 2016, this entry-level shotgun marks the first Vang Comp 870 available for under $600. We start with a Remington 870 12ga, 18" barrel with bead sights and synthetic stocks, then we add our patented Vang Comp barrel modification with compensation ports, Dome Head Safety switch and 12ga Stainless Steel magazine follower. These are available exclusively from our official shotgun distributor - Freedom Firearms.

There are only 5 of these shotguns available and we are releasing them to you guys on our email list before we announce them to the public later this weekend because you guys are special to us. By signing up for this newsletter you show a level of interest in our company that is more personal than Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and we appreciate that so you get special treatment.

Contact Freedom Firearms to order yours today; first come, first served:
via Phone: (702) 438-4867
via email: info@freedomgunstore.com



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Vang Comp Systems, Inc
2805 N. Hwy 89, Unit C, Chino Valley, AZ 86323
Phone: (928)636-8455, Fax: (928)636-1538
eMail: information@vangcomp.com
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They lost me at compensation ports.

TheRoland
04-06-2016, 06:37 PM
Anyone have any current impressions of the surefire DSF?

tanner
04-06-2016, 07:23 PM
I recently got one. Don't have any real practice or training with it, just a few rounds of fam fire. Nothing approaching "hard use".

I think it is pretty much exactly as advertised. A bit heavier than I thought it would be. The weight would discourage me from putting one on a general purpose shotgun, but for a dedicated house gun I think it works.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
04-06-2016, 09:45 PM
Anyone have any current impressions of the surefire DSF?

I had one a few yrs. back, bought it for one of my VCS 870s. I never even mounted it & as tanner stated, the weight was more than I wanted/needed & sold it.

I went w/ a 500lmn. Fury & haven't looked back w/ zero regrets.

SeriousStudent
04-07-2016, 06:45 PM
Anyone have any current impressions of the surefire DSF?

I have one on an 870 that I just turned into 12.5" SBS. I'm going to try and take it to the range next weekend.

So far, I do like it. It handles well, and fits my hands well when using the Push/Pull method that Chief Haught teaches.

I need to run a couple of hundred rounds through it, to make sure. I'm planning on taking it to Tom Given's shotgun class this summer in Shawnee. I'll let you know how it does there, if you wish.

anchormann
04-07-2016, 11:08 PM
I am looking to set up a defensive 870. My questions are:

-sights

-How much ammo should the gun hold

-side saddle

-forend/light solution

-stock


thanks guys

I was an Anchorage cop for 25 years and one of two RangeMasters for over 18 years. I built several dozen 870's for the department . . . many with 14" barrels. I would recommend Scattergun or Remington Trak-Lock II or LPA Ghost Ring sights. I would stay away from any sort of optical (battery powered) sights (Bulky, Fragile, and less reliable). If you plan on using any type of slugs, a bead sight is not accurate enough.

I would add at least a one-shot magazine extension (big bullet - little magazine!) and stainless steel follower . . . an oversize safety . . . a side-saddle . . . whatever light suits your fancy . . . I use a Surefire 6P or XTar TZ20 LED clamped to the one-shot extension . . . push your support hand forward to press the tail switch to turn on but it turns off when you run the slide! . . . and it is a fraction of the cost of any brand of foreend light assembly.

Stock is a trial and error proposition . . . some like a pistol grip, others do not. Try several different types if you can before you invest in one. Make sure it is short enough to allow a proper mount and cheek weld. I also recommend the Remington "Limb-Saver" recoil pad . . . best I've ever used and it will stick to a slick nylon coat and not slide away from your shoulder (mount)!

Some folks have poo-pooed the 870 express . . . the only real difference is the trigger assy. is plastic instead of aluminum . . . unless you plan on shooting 1000's of rounds through your 870, it will serve you well. If you have not yet purchased an 870, check out gun shops and pawn shops, etc. . . . a used older 870 will be smoother than a new one and as long as there is no rust or corrosion I would prefer such over a new one. Regardless of what you have or plan on getting . . . see the next paragraph!

My last and best piece of advice . . . contact Hans Vang of Vang Comp Systems (www.vangcomp.com) in Prescott Arizona for his wisdom . . . he can do as much or as little as you want and even sell you a completed 870 to your specifications . . . he makes the best mag-tube extensions, oversize safeties, S/S followers, Side-Saddles (velcro), and any accessory you may want (only practical and useful!) and he can do absolute magic to the forcing cone and muzzle of your barrel to give you the tightest buckshot pattern you will find anywhere! Tell him Don Mann from APD sent you . . . he will treat you right. Hans builds shotguns for LE Agencies all over the world and his prices are very reasonable! (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=vang+comp+systems+inc&qs=AS&sk=IM1AS1&FORM=QBIR&pq=vang%20comp&sc=8-9&sp=3&qs=AS&sk=IM1AS1)

Good luck in your 870 project!

Don Mann
Chugiak, Alaska

okie john
04-08-2016, 12:09 AM
I would recommend Scattergun or Remington Trak-Lock II or LPA Ghost Ring sights.

First of all, welcome to PF.com. Glad to have your experience and insight.

Did you find that 870's with ghost ring sights kept a zero pretty well? I'd expect the zero to wander somewhat if you pulled the barrel for cleaning and then put it back, but what about getting bumped around in general?

Thanks in advance,


Okie John

HCM
04-08-2016, 12:31 AM
First of all, welcome to PF.com. Glad to have your experience and insight.

Did you find that 870's with ghost ring sights kept a zero pretty well? I'd expect the zero to wander somewhat if you pulled the barrel for cleaning and then put it back, but what about getting bumped around in general?

Thanks in advance,


Okie John

I'm not Anchorman but my Agency has been using Scattergun / Remington Trak Lok ghost ring sights since before I started in the mid 1990's.

We haven't had any wandering zero issues withe the trak lok rears or the Scattergun/Wilson soldered on fronts, nor any due to barrel removal. At one point we were getting guns directly from Remington with the Trak lok rear and a Remington dovetail front, We had a few issues with the Remington dovetail fronts coming loose under recoil or when knocked around.

Last year we started receiving 870's with the XS express sights (the standard size dot / DEA barrels) rather than the ghost rings. Honestly, I prefer the XS sights to the ghost rings on the shotgun. More precise than a bead and quicker than the ghost ring.

HCM
04-08-2016, 12:35 AM
I would stay away from any sort of optical (battery powered) sights (Bulky, Fragile, and less reliable).

Agree with everything except this ^^^^^. I believe the Aimpoint Micros are a proven and compact solution.

What optics have you seen issues with on shotguns ?

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
04-08-2016, 08:59 AM
" My last and best piece of advice . . . contact Hans Vang of Vang Comp Systems (www.vangcomp.com) in Prescott Arizona for his wisdom . . . he can do as much or as little as you want and even sell you a completed 870 to your specifications . . . he makes the best mag-tube extensions, oversize safeties, S/S followers, Side-Saddles (velcro), and any accessory you may want (only practical and useful!) and he can do absolute magic to the forcing cone and muzzle of your barrel to give you the tightest buckshot pattern you will find anywhere! Tell him Don Mann from APD sent you . . . he will treat you right. Hans builds shotguns for LE Agencies all over the world and his prices are very reasonable! (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...s=AS&sk=IM1AS1) "

The above sums up my feelings as well but I'm a tad jaded w/ two of Han's WELL done 870s.

ETA- only caveat I can add is both have AP T1's w/ zero issues. Anyone seen that pesky DB to weigh in here, perhaps he's busy @ TTPOA in San Marcos or getting things squared away @ DPC for a class this wknd?

SLG
04-08-2016, 09:12 AM
I have never seen a zero issue with any sights on a SG due to barrel removal. Certainly not with good Ghost rings.

Also can highly recommend a T1/2 on top of the gun. It is to Ghost Ring sights as Ghost rings are to a bead, only 10 times more so.

TheRoland
04-08-2016, 09:17 AM
Any issue using an H1 over a T1?

When running optics, are there issues with comb height such that running a cheek riser is required?

newyork
04-08-2016, 09:25 AM
Wilson's cheapest 870 has an $1135 msrp. How do they compare vs something you put together yourself? Will the price even out or are the Wilson's more expensive and not worth the coin?

pablo
04-08-2016, 09:43 AM
I haven't seen any meaningful changes in zero by removing and installing the barrel. I've seen changing the tightness and position of magazine clamps can do all sorts of wonky things to zero and group size. One of the reasons that I like the Nordic extension is that I can get things tuned up and still have access to the magazine tube.


Wilson's cheapest 870 has an $1135 msrp. How do they compare vs something you put together yourself? Will the price even out or are the Wilson's more expensive and not worth the coin?

From a unemotional economic perspective they are not worth it. It's still just an 870 at the end of the day. If that 's what makes you happy I certainly think there are much worse gun purchases out there.

okie john
04-08-2016, 09:47 AM
Thanks everyone.


Okie John

Whiskey_Bravo
04-08-2016, 11:59 AM
NewYork weren't you previously the owner of a pretty trick Nighthawk 870?

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
04-08-2016, 12:22 PM
Any issue using an H1 over a T1?

When running optics, are there issues with comb height such that running a cheek riser is required?

A correction to my prior post, one of my AP's is a T1, the other an H1 & zero difference IMO but not using NODs so there is that.

Re. the comb height/cheek riser question, I have both of my VCS 870's set up w/ MP stocks but no issues re. height/rise.

newyork
04-08-2016, 12:31 PM
I was. It was a boat anchor. Worked well. Tamed recoil. Too damn heavy.

TR675
04-08-2016, 01:26 PM
I'm using a T1 on an 870 and found the adjustable cheek comb height on Magpul's stock very useful for dialing in the best height for ease of use and comfort.

Edster
04-24-2016, 09:37 PM
Some skateboard tape, heavy clippers, and patience and the Magpul forend is nice and grippy.

7479

farscott
04-25-2016, 11:02 AM
anyone got a list of things to check on the 870? I originally planed on sending it to Vang comp but I have my first kid on the way so that $ is needed else where.

Not sure this question got addressed. Here is my list.

1) If the bead or front sight is mounted on a base, insure base is located at 12:00. Seen more than one that was way off.
2) Check to see if barrel ring is attached to barrel. Had one recent 870 Express barrel on which the barrel ring was not soldered/brazed. Not sure how it got out of Ilion.
3) Insure action bars are not binding and action is not sticking. It will not be smooth out of the box if new, but it should not bind.
4) If used, insure that gun has the Flexitab upgrade. Field strip the gun, so that you can verify the bolt and bolt carrier have the Flexitab changes. There are guns with the correct shell lifter but the older bolt and bolt carrier.
5) If used, check to see if the serial number ends in "V" or "M". The former has the ejector pinned for 2-3/4" and shorter shells. The latter has the ejector pinned for 3" and shorter shells. Do NOT use the barrel to do this as 870 barrels are interchangeable, other than Special Field models and some of the new 870 Tactical models. Lots of three-inch barrels on the older receivers. The ejector can be installed in the three-inch position, but that is a trip to Ilion or to a good smith.
6) Insure gun is not one of the 870 Special Field models or one of the new 870 Tactical models due to the lack of barrel interchangeability.
7) If used, insure there is no J-lock on the safety unless you plan on replacing the entire safety. No one wants a shotgun with a self-actuating safety that requires a tool to deactivate.
8) If used, look for dimples in the magazine tube. If an Express, the newer ones have a different magazine cap retention system. I much prefer the older Wingmaster models so as to not deal with the dimples and the different cap retention.
9) Check for loose (not staked) shell latches when the gun is field stripped. If not staked, do not buy as gun needs to go to a smith. Gun will function with latches not staked, but the chances of a feed jam increase.

Nephrology
07-17-2017, 12:16 PM
I am reviving this thread because I just won a beater 18" Police Magnum (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/667786573). Has bead sight. Purpose: home defense gun that I might bring into the woods now and then, and a companion to my much nicer 20" LE surplus Wingmaster.

Current short term plan:

1. Magazine: Scattergun Technologies/WC +2 tube w/spring, follower. just about the only thing I'll buy immediately.
2. Ammo: Some Federal 00 Buck. Slugs: any tips? I think I have some Winchester Rangers.
3. Stock: Weighing buying a Hogue youth vs. Magpul stock vs. Magpul stock/fore-end set. Currently leaning towards the hogue or the Magpul stock alone. Opinions?
4. Light/mount: Have a Nordic Components railed clamp on my 20" Wingmaster. I will take it off the wingmaster and use it to mount one of my TLR-1s. May buy a TLR-1 HL later. Not sure if I want to try another mounting option at this time...
5. Sights: thinking about the XS tritium bead sight. Any thoughts? Not interested in going with a rail or optic on this gun at this time.
6. Reloads: I actually have a Mesa 4-round sidesaddle I will mount and play with just to see how I like it.
7. Finish: any reason to worry this thing might rust? I have no sense of the quality of the finish on this gun or even what era it's from. Depending on what it looks like when I get it, I might end up either refinishing it professionally, rattlecan-ing it, or just leaving it alone. As long as it doesnt rust like crazy I am leaning towards the latter two options.

David S.
07-17-2017, 01:10 PM
I'm about to order the Magpul stock. I like that it's adjustable and the sling mounts to the side of the stock instead of bottom. During the HiTS Shotgun class last year I had my sling mounted to the bottom (factory) mount and the gun flopped all over the place when slung. Very awkward. I hope the side mount makes it much more stable.

ETA Which Nordic rail did you use? Reviews on Brownell's indicate that the NORDIC MAGAZINE EXTENSION SUPPORT CLAMP (http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/flashlights-accessories/accessory-mounts/magazine-extension-support-clamp-prod25705.aspx) (with rail) isn't compatible with the factory mag extension.

Bigghoss
07-17-2017, 01:19 PM
I am reviving this thread because I just won a beater 18" Police Magnum (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/667786573). Has bead sight. Purpose: home defense gun that I might bring into the woods now and then, and a companion to my much nicer 20" LE surplus Wingmaster.

Current short term plan:

1. Magazine: Scattergun Technologies/WC +2 tube w/spring, follower. just about the only thing I'll buy immediately.
2. Ammo: Some Federal 00 Buck. Slugs: any tips? I think I have some Winchester Rangers.
3. Stock: Weighing buying a Hogue youth vs. Magpul stock vs. Magpul stock/fore-end set. Currently leaning towards the hogue or the Magpul stock alone. Opinions?
4. Light/mount: Have a Nordic Components railed clamp on my 20" Wingmaster. I will take it off the wingmaster and use it to mount one of my TLR-1s. May buy a TLR-1 HL later. Not sure if I want to try another mounting option at this time...
5. Sights: thinking about the XS tritium bead sight. Any thoughts? Not interested in going with a rail or optic on this gun at this time.
6. Reloads: I actually have a Mesa 4-round sidesaddle I will mount and play with just to see how I like it.
7. Finish: any reason to worry this thing might rust? I have no sense of the quality of the finish on this gun or even what era it's from. Depending on what it looks like when I get it, I might end up either refinishing it professionally, rattlecan-ing it, or just leaving it alone. As long as it doesnt rust like crazy I am leaning towards the latter two options.

Get the Magpul stock and fore end plus a rail so you can put the light on the fore end.

Nephrology
07-17-2017, 01:52 PM
Get the Magpul stock and fore end plus a rail so you can put the light on the fore end.

After reading through this thread I am not sure if that's the answer for me - concerned about getting my fingers jammed up during recoil.

mtnbkr
07-17-2017, 02:05 PM
After reading through this thread I am not sure if that's the answer for me - concerned about getting my fingers jammed up during recoil.

That's how mine is set up and it hasn't been an issue. My light is about 1" in front of the thumb on my left hand when I grasp the fore end. I recently took it to the range and ran roughly 50 rounds of combined buck and slug through it, not once did my thumb touch anything.

Chris

blues
07-17-2017, 02:26 PM
After reading through this thread I am not sure if that's the answer for me - concerned about getting my fingers jammed up during recoil.

I've tried to talk myself into the Magpul stock and still haven't succeeded. I guess I'm going to have to find someone nearby who has one to try out and see if it makes me all giddy.

So far the only changes from stock are a +2 extension tube, Surefire forend and Blackhawk swift sling. Maybe one of these days. I am slightly put off by the thought of adding more weight to the setup.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-17-2017, 02:52 PM
I've tried to talk myself into the Magpul stock and still haven't succeeded. I guess I'm going to have to find someone nearby who has one to try out and see if it makes me all giddy.

So far the only changes from stock are a +2 extension tube, Surefire forend and Blackhawk swift sling. Maybe one of these days. I am slightly put off by the thought of adding more weight to the setup.

Blues wish you were local or I was traveling near your AO, as I'd gladly let you run one of my VCS 870's, both of which have MP stocks.

As much as I think Han's 870 upgrades are the cat's ass, IMO the addition of the MP stocks ranks right up there w/ his mods. but YMMV applies here as always.

That said, I'm really looking forward to Adam releasing his adapter later this Fall (?) so I can add an MP stock to my 1301T & call it good. Hate it though as it may not be available in time for my next SG tuneup w/ DB & Wayne but 1st world problems & what not as always.

Nephrology
07-17-2017, 02:59 PM
Blues wish you were local or I was traveling near your AO, as I'd gladly let you run one of my VCS 870's, both of which have MP stocks.

As much as I think Han's 870 upgrades are the cat's ass, IMO the addition of the MP stocks ranks right up there w/ his mods. but YMMV applies here as always.

That said, I'm really looking forward to Adam releasing his adapter later this Fall (?) so I can add an MP stock to my 1301T & call it good. Hate it though as it may not be available in time for my next SG tuneup w/ DB & Wayne but 1st world problems & what not as always.

That's how strongly you feel about the magpul stock? Why, if I may ask?

blues
07-17-2017, 03:05 PM
Blues wish you were local or I was traveling near your AO, as I'd gladly let you run one of my VCS 870's, both of which have MP stocks.

As much as I think Han's 870 upgrades are the cat's ass, IMO the addition of the MP stocks ranks right up there w/ his mods. but YMMV applies here as always.

That said, I'm really looking forward to Adam releasing his adapter later this Fall (?) so I can add an MP stock to my 1301T & call it good. Hate it though as it may not be available in time for my next SG tuneup w/ DB & Wayne but 1st world problems & what not as always.

Thank you, brother. If you ever do find yourself up in this area, consider yourself welcome. We're certified Texas friendly. We've had our friends from San Marcos, (knife maker Jerry Halfrich and his wife), visit for a few days in the past.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-17-2017, 03:09 PM
That's how strongly you feel about the magpul stock? Why, if I may ask?

Not the most articulate critter here Neph, let me reflect on it & see if I can capsulize my thoughts on it in the next day or so.

In the meantime perhaps another user/fan of the MP stocks can weigh in here, you know so I can then jump in & say "yeah, that's it exactly " :cool:

blues
07-17-2017, 03:17 PM
Not the most articulate critter here Neph, let me reflect on it & see if I can capsulize my thoughts on it in the next day or so.

In the meantime perhaps another user/fan of the MP stocks can weigh in here, you know so I can then jump in & say "yeah, that's it exactly " :cool:

If it makes you feel any better, the good Dr. House feels pretty strongly about 'em too and has advocated strongly on their behalf with me via PM.
Pretty hard to turn one's back on strong endorsements from such respected folks as you two.

Bigghoss
07-17-2017, 04:03 PM
After reading through this thread I am not sure if that's the answer for me - concerned about getting my fingers jammed up during recoil.

Hasn't been a problem for me. The fore end and a rail is about $40 so it's not a huge loss if you don't like it. Even if you don't mount anything on it the Magpul fore end is pretty nice. And the buttstock is the tits. Try and find a large guns store that has a magpul equiped shotgun is stock. I know Mossberg has a couple models, not sure if Remington does. That'll let you feel it out.

Nephrology
07-17-2017, 06:30 PM
Hasn't been a problem for me. The fore end and a rail is about $40 so it's not a huge loss if you don't like it. Even if you don't mount anything on it the Magpul fore end is pretty nice. And the buttstock is the tits. Try and find a large guns store that has a magpul equiped shotgun is stock. I know Mossberg has a couple models, not sure if Remington does. That'll let you feel it out.

I'm definitely not closed to the idea entirely...

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-17-2017, 07:03 PM
If it makes you feel any better, the good Dr. House feels pretty strongly about 'em too and has advocated strongly on their behalf with me via PM.
Pretty hard to turn one's back on strong endorsements from such respected folks as you two.

Blues I'm just a lowly civie, not even in the league w/ the likes of Doc House, very much why I've trained over the years & continue to w/ cats like DB, Wayne & another nearby fella named Paul.

Now Bigghoss said above that the MP stock "is the tits" so for now I'll let that be my summation of said stock.

Nephrology
07-17-2017, 07:31 PM
Blues I'm just a lowly civie, not even in the league w/ the likes of Doc House, very much why I've trained over the years & continue to w/ cats like DB, Wayne & another nearby fella named Paul.

Now Bigghoss said above that the MP stock "is the tits" so for now I'll let that be my summation of said stock.

So you do not run the magpul foreend? What do you run instead and why?

Nephrology
07-17-2017, 07:34 PM
also, what are folks' experiences with the XS/epoxy-installed tritium front sights? I am not unhappy wit the bead for now but am in the market for improvements.

nalesq
07-17-2017, 07:45 PM
also, what are folks' experiences with the XS/epoxy-installed tritium front sights? I am not unhappy wit the bead for now but am in the market for improvements.

The XS sight is a significant improvement over the plain bead because it's much easier and quicker to pick up, especially against a cluttered target and in suboptimal lighting. Installation is easy with good surface prep and JB Weld, and mine has not come off after being subjected to years and many hundreds of rounds of buckshot and slugs.

Here's a rough pic to give you an idea of what a sight picture would look like:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170718/b8b81f93bf0b54e6aac97fd66697f1a8.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

SeriousStudent
07-17-2017, 07:47 PM
also, what are folks' experiences with the XS/epoxy-installed tritium front sights? I am not unhappy wit the bead for now but am in the market for improvements.

I have an X/S Big Dot tritium front sight epoxied onto the front of my shotguns that do not have rifle sights. That is three of them. The other two shotguns have rifle sights. I have never had any kind of issue with them separating. I do not baby my shotguns, either.

My shotgun mechanic uses an adhesive that is found in the aircraft industry to laminate carbon fiber wings. That is how he glues the X/S Big Dot on the barrel. It's adhesive qualities are good enough for me.

Three of my shotguns wear Aimpoint Micro H-1's. Two have Magpul stocks as well. I am a big fan of the Magpul stocks.

I prefer Surefire 618 lights on my shotguns. My Beretta 1301 has a Surefire X-300U with a tape switch. My Winchester Model 12 does not have a light or spare round carrier on the receiver, it's got an old Eagle buttstock round carrier.

I'm in the process of setting up a 870 Police Magnum for a nephew, as a present for when he returns from his deployment overseas. I have taught him a fair bit about shotguns, and he enjoys them as well. So I'm building him one.

And David S gives you good advice - pay attention to the sling system you pick.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-17-2017, 07:56 PM
So you do not run the magpul foreend? What do you run instead and why?

I added the MP stock to the camo'd VCS gun in 2012ish & never tried the MP forend as the current OEM @ that time seemed fine.

Bought the middle VCS 870 (like new) in late 2014, added the stock & REALLY liked the OEM rubber Hogue forend it came with so stayed the course as it has a semi-tacky feel to it.

Agreed w/ both David & Bill re. sling attachment points as I'm a cross dresser as Paul described me years ago or just simply confused. He labeled me that, as I run a long gun left, pistol AIWB/right handed so the sling issue is more important in my case, as bottom of the stock is no bueno for my usage.

SeriousStudent
07-17-2017, 08:09 PM
Yes, I run a shotgun right-handed, a carbine left-handed, a bolt gun right-handed, and shoot a pistol equally poorly with either hand.

ssb
07-17-2017, 10:26 PM
On the XS bead...

I haven't yet bought one. I'm kind of stuck here in my decision, between either a) installing the XS bead or b) spending ~$215 to buy the DEA barrel with what are basically XS Big Dots installed.

The gun will see limited slug use, but since I'm up in the mountains now bears are a possibility. Primary use is launching buckshot at 5-10 yards. Given those parameters, is it worth the extra $140 to gain a rear sight?

BillSWPA
07-17-2017, 11:11 PM
For those of you using epoxy to attach tritium sights, what are your plans for when he tritium starts to go dim? Can you get these off easily with acetone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lester Polfus
07-17-2017, 11:20 PM
For those of you using epoxy to attach tritium sights, what are your plans for when he tritium starts to go dim? Can you get these off easily with acetone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heat is usually needed. Often you can get away with a heat gun, but sometimes you need a torch.

I'm curious about the aircraft adhesive mentioned above.

Willard
07-17-2017, 11:22 PM
I have an X/S Big Dot tritium front sight epoxied onto the front of my shotguns that do not have rifle sights. That is three of them. The other two shotguns have rifle sights. I have never had any kind of issue with them separating. I do not baby my shotguns, either.

Thanks for this nugget Serious. I was contemplating the DEA barrel due to concerns over separation with the epoxy X/S. You saved me some cash.

Willard
07-17-2017, 11:25 PM
.

Would you mind sharing what type anti-walk pins those are? I'm seeing a few different options available.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-18-2017, 07:33 AM
Would you mind sharing what type anti-walk pins those are? I'm seeing a few different options available.

Willard I didn't install any AW pins in the VCS guns, just added rigid side saddles w/ the supplied pins visible that came w/ each saddle.

Willard
07-18-2017, 08:05 AM
Willard I didn't install any AW pins in the VCS guns, just added rigid side saddles w/ the supplied pins visible that came w/ each saddle.

Thank you sir.

nalesq
07-18-2017, 09:16 AM
For those of you using epoxy to attach tritium sights, what are your plans for when he tritium starts to go dim? Can you get these off easily with acetone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JB Weld requires 600F heat to be removed, so I probably won't try to change it out. Once the tritium dims, I will still have a front sight vastly superior to the factory bead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Tabasco
07-18-2017, 10:13 AM
On the XS bead...

I haven't yet bought one. I'm kind of stuck here in my decision, between either a) installing the XS bead or b) spending ~$215 to buy the DEA barrel with what are basically XS Big Dots installed.

The gun will see limited slug use, but since I'm up in the mountains now bears are a possibility. Primary use is launching buckshot at 5-10 yards. Given those parameters, is it worth the extra $140 to gain a rear sight?

For me, yes. I have both the XS big dot epoxied on one of my 870's and one with the XS 870 barrel. I hit far more consistently with with both slugs and Fed. FC buck with the XS rifle sights on the barrel. FC buck and Brenneke Home Defense tactical shoot to the same POA at 15-25 yards with the XS 870 barrel. The Big Dot is better than just a bead on pedestal, and it glows, but I prefer the actual sights. My light on the fore end lights up the front sight, so the glow in the dark feature is not as important for me. I live in the mountains too, and it gets dark at night so a light is critical.

SeriousStudent
07-18-2017, 05:43 PM
For those of you using epoxy to attach tritium sights, what are your plans for when he tritium starts to go dim? Can you get these off easily with acetone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My plan is to just twist off the entire thing when that day comes. The Big Dot is glued on top of the existing brass bead. I'll just use a pair of BFP's* to twist it, unscrewing it from the barrel.

Install a new brass bead, then glue on a new Big Dot.


*Big Ol' Pliers

coldcase1984
07-18-2017, 05:54 PM
I'll probably be giving mine the Pistol-Forum Neon Pop Orange treatment for snubbies soon. Trit is on last legs.

Sigfan26
07-18-2017, 06:04 PM
I'll probably be giving mine the Pistol-Forum Neon Pop Orange treatment for snubbies soon. Trit is on last legs.

You mean it's about to go "trits up"?

Lester Polfus
07-18-2017, 06:13 PM
My plan is to just twist off the entire thing when that day comes. The Big Dot is glued on top of the existing brass bead. I'll just use a pair of BFP's* to twist it, unscrewing it from the barrel.

Install a new brass bead, then glue on a new Big Dot.


*Big Ol' Pliers

I would really encourage you to apply some heat first. The method you describe above is liable to snap the Big Dot and bead off the threaded shaft of the bead. Getting those out of the shotgun can be done, but it's kind of a pain.

SeriousStudent
07-18-2017, 06:20 PM
I would really encourage you to apply some heat first. The method you describe above is liable to snap the Big Dot and bead off the threaded shaft of the bead. Getting those out of the shotgun can be done, but it's kind of a pain.

Ah, yes indeed, very good advice. Heat would definitely be a benefit.

I have also had good luck putting a drop of Kroil on things like that, and then letting it soak in over night.

Chuck Whitlock
07-18-2017, 06:36 PM
also, what are folks' experiences with the XS/epoxy-installed tritium front sights? I am not unhappy wit the bead for now but am in the market for improvements.

I had an agency owned 18" Mossberg 590DA1 that I'd had an XS Big Dot installed on, and the synthetic stock shortened. I had no problems busting clays with it.

I would buy that gun from the agency given 1/2 a chance.

Nephrology
07-18-2017, 06:55 PM
I had an agency owned 18" Mossberg 590DA1 that I'd had an XS Big Dot installed on, and the synthetic stock shortened. I had no problems busting clays with it.

I would buy that gun from the agency given 1/2 a chance.

Interesting. So far my first purchase for upgrades are going to be:

1. +2 Mag tube by SGTech/WC
2. XS Big Dot epoxy for pedastal FS.

Next decision tree is stock and mounting option. Still torn about how to mount a light but I have a good enough solution at the moment so no rush. Stock I will probably go Magpul; only question is whether or not to get the fore-end + rail too.

Edster
07-18-2017, 07:06 PM
I am reviving this thread because I just won a beater 18" Police Magnum (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/667786573). Has bead sight. Purpose: home defense gun that I might bring into the woods now and then, and a companion to my much nicer 20" LE surplus Wingmaster.

Current short term plan:

1. Magazine: Scattergun Technologies/WC +2 tube w/spring, follower. just about the only thing I'll buy immediately.
2. Ammo: Some Federal 00 Buck. Slugs: any tips? I think I have some Winchester Rangers.
3. Stock: Weighing buying a Hogue youth vs. Magpul stock vs. Magpul stock/fore-end set. Currently leaning towards the hogue or the Magpul stock alone. Opinions?
4. Light/mount: Have a Nordic Components railed clamp on my 20" Wingmaster. I will take it off the wingmaster and use it to mount one of my TLR-1s. May buy a TLR-1 HL later. Not sure if I want to try another mounting option at this time...
5. Sights: thinking about the XS tritium bead sight. Any thoughts? Not interested in going with a rail or optic on this gun at this time.
6. Reloads: I actually have a Mesa 4-round sidesaddle I will mount and play with just to see how I like it.
7. Finish: any reason to worry this thing might rust? I have no sense of the quality of the finish on this gun or even what era it's from. Depending on what it looks like when I get it, I might end up either refinishing it professionally, rattlecan-ing it, or just leaving it alone. As long as it doesnt rust like crazy I am leaning towards the latter two options.

My non-expert opinions on a few of these

2. Slugs: Brenneke THD hits POA for me and seems to have impressive performance
3. Magpul stock was a game changer. Getting it to fit is easy and cheap. Once it's dialed in, everything just lines up with very little effort.
4. The latest generation SureFire fore-ends are overkill for my needs. I have a first generation that is still going strong. For shotgun #2, though, I mounted a short rail to a Magpul fore-end, then a SureFire G2 in a VLTOR quick-release mount. I have the tailcap in front of my index finger rather than my thumb. My thumb is usually gripping the fore-end too hard to work a light. Plus I'm worried about driving the light back into my thumb under recoil. You can see the setup in the insanely oversized picture I posted before (sorry).

SeriousStudent
07-18-2017, 07:10 PM
It's your money, but I would hunt for either a used first model Surefire or the newest third model.

A lot of the people I have known over the years try a bunch of different things, and most eventually settle on a Surefire forend light. I know I did. The recoil kills a lot of ideas.

http://www.surefire.com/illumination/weaponlights/shotgun-forend.html

You can find lightly used ones for substantially below list, usually around $200 for a Gen 1 and $250 for a Gen 3.

coldcase1984
07-18-2017, 07:10 PM
You mean it's about to go "trits up"?

Laughed aloud; well done!

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-18-2017, 07:11 PM
Interesting. So far my first purchase for upgrades are going to be:

1. +2 Mag tube by SGTech/WC
2. XS Big Dot epoxy for pedastal FS.

Next decision tree is stock and mounting option. Still torn about how to mount a light but I have a good enough solution at the moment so no rush. Stock I will probably go Magpul; only question is whether or not to get the fore-end + rail too.


I'm a nobody Neph but I like your thinking & where you seem headed.

Biased no doubt re. the MP stocks but good choice there & glad to see you're not getting all wrapped around the axle on the light issue, you'll solve that conundrum down the road.

Nephrology
07-18-2017, 09:43 PM
I'm a nobody Neph but I like your thinking & where you seem headed.

Biased no doubt re. the MP stocks but good choice there & glad to see you're not getting all wrapped around the axle on the light issue, you'll solve that conundrum down the road.

Thanks.

Just ordered:
1. the XS sight
2. the WC/SGTech +2 tube - left side sling loop (incl. new follower and spring)
3. SGTech enlarged safety. Would have gone with the VC Part but Midway didnt have it in stock and Brownell's thinks I can't order a +2 tube in CO (They are wrong). I'm sure the SG part will be fine.

Also snagged a black Remington synthetic Youth stock on Ebay for $25. Figured it'd be a cheap way to see how I like the shorter LOP.

ssb
07-18-2017, 10:08 PM
For me, yes. I have both the XS big dot epoxied on one of my 870's and one with the XS 870 barrel. I hit far more consistently with with both slugs and Fed. FC buck with the XS rifle sights on the barrel. FC buck and Brenneke Home Defense tactical shoot to the same POA at 15-25 yards with the XS 870 barrel. The Big Dot is better than just a bead on pedestal, and it glows, but I prefer the actual sights. My light on the fore end lights up the front sight, so the glow in the dark feature is not as important for me. I live in the mountains too, and it gets dark at night so a light is critical.

Is the rear drift adjustable or am I stuck with windage? I know there's no elevation adjustments.

I'm using Remington 8-pellet stuff, so I've got a bit wider spread than the FC stuff at ranges that matter to me, but I can certainly see how a rear sight would help with FC.

I have ten THDs around. I'll have to see where they print before selecting a slug, but my gut says that's the one. Not too punishing on recoil for what it is -- certainly better than my misadventure with Special Forces Magnums.

pangloss
07-18-2017, 11:25 PM
Interesting. So far my first purchase for upgrades are going to be:

1. +2 Mag tube by SGTech/WC
2. XS Big Dot epoxy for pedastal FS.

Next decision tree is stock and mounting option. Still torn about how to mount a light but I have a good enough solution at the moment so no rush. Stock I will probably go Magpul; only question is whether or not to get the fore-end + rail too.

This shotgun disease is contagious. I just ordered the Magpul fore end for my 870P and a new mag spring. I put the Magpul stock on a few months ago and really like it. I need to look into the Big Dot front site.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

Nephrology
07-19-2017, 07:14 AM
This shotgun disease is contagious. I just ordered the Magpul fore end for my 870P and a new mag spring. I put the Magpul stock on a few months ago and really like it. I need to look into the Big Dot front site.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

Glad to be a bad influence ;)

Nephrology
07-19-2017, 08:08 AM
OK, so give me the rundown on these surefire lights.

I know there are roughly 3(?) generations - the older Laser Products model, the 618, and the DSF-870.

What are people's thoughts on each? There's a DSF-870 on Ebay that looks basically brand new for $200 BIN... thoughts?

blues
07-19-2017, 08:18 AM
OK, so give me the rundown on these surefire lights.

I know there are roughly 3(?) generations - the older Laser Products model, the 618, and the DSF-870.

What are people's thoughts on each? There's a DSF-870 on Ebay that looks basically brand new for $200 BIN... thoughts?

I've got the newer DSF-870 which addressed the battery drainage issues some reported in the past. I don't get out with it a whole lot but I've been pleased with its performance over the past couple of years.

Tabasco
07-19-2017, 06:09 PM
Is the rear drift adjustable or am I stuck with windage? I know there's no elevation adjustments.

I'm using Remington 8-pellet stuff, so I've got a bit wider spread than the FC stuff at ranges that matter to me, but I can certainly see how a rear sight would help with FC.

I have ten THDs around. I'll have to see where they print before selecting a slug, but my gut says that's the one. Not too punishing on recoil for what it is -- certainly better than my misadventure with Special Forces Magnums.

Rear is drift adjustable.

Got lucky with THD slugs, my local hardware store started stocking them. What happened with the "Special forces Magnums"?

SeriousStudent
07-19-2017, 06:59 PM
OK, so give me the rundown on these surefire lights.

I know there are roughly 3(?) generations - the older Laser Products model, the 618, and the DSF-870.

What are people's thoughts on each? There's a DSF-870 on Ebay that looks basically brand new for $200 BIN... thoughts?

I own all three lights. I would go with the DSF-870.

The switches are easier to manipulate. They are also set up so you have fewer light "ND's". The weight is nice and light, the latest unit is relatively compact as well.

Best of all, it is configured to be easiest to operate with the "push-pull" method of recoil control taught by Rob Haught.

The oldest Laser Products (or first generation) is my second favorite. The 618 is my least favorite, and now resides on the shotgun I shoot the least.

ssb
07-19-2017, 07:22 PM
What happened with the "Special forces Magnums"?

They're a Brenneke load, IIRC 1 1/4oz @ 1600FPS. Pain, misery, and bruising ensued. I also learned an important lesson about not wrapping my thumb around the stock.

UNK
07-19-2017, 08:02 PM
Blues I'm just a lowly civie, not even in the league w/ the likes of Doc House, very much why I've trained over the years & continue to w/ cats like DB, Wayne & another nearby fella named Paul.

Now Bigghoss said above that the MP stock "is the tits" so for now I'll let that be my summation of said stock.

How do those stocks compare weight wise to the stock Remington wood/synthetic stock? Are you running lights on all of those guns? What are you running if you are?

ssb
07-19-2017, 08:46 PM
How do those stocks compare weight wise to the stock Remington wood/synthetic stock? Are you running lights on all of those guns? What are you running if you are?

Weight wise, subjectively the Magpul felt about the same as a wood OEM Remington stock. They're definitely a bit heavier than the OEM synthetics.

I run a Surefire 618 on mine. I do not use a magazine extension to keep weight down out front, though I'm considering a +1.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-19-2017, 09:07 PM
How do those stocks compare weight wise to the stock Remington wood/synthetic stock? Are you running lights on all of those guns? What are you running if you are?

UNK can't comment on the weight factor as both 870's came OEM from Han's shop, neither was wood, both syn & then I started dicking w/ 'em.

Re. lights I used to run a SF EAG P2X Fury (500lmn CR123 X2)w/ a clickie TC, think the mounts may still be visible. When I bought the black VCS 870, I swapped the P2X to it (camo'd into safe) as the black one was a game & bedroom gun. Sold the P2X for a P3X (HH usage) & replaced it w/ a SF 6PX Defender (OEM w/ clickie) when Wal Mexico had 'em on close out here. Last yr. I put the black 870 in the safe (camo's FS) when I bought the 1301T for gaming (which is no mas now :mad:) & swapped the SF lite to it for bump in the nite duty & traveling.

Long ago my neighbor Paul taught me consistency was my friend thus I run clickie TCs on my SBRs & SGs. To be clear, nothing against the SF forends that Serious uses, actually owned 'em both but besides not having clickie TCs, I didn't like the weight or ergonomics on my 18" guns w/ the full length mag extensions.

HTH & sorry 'bout all the verbiage.

SeriousStudent
07-19-2017, 10:07 PM
If only there was a shotgun class sometime next month, where someone could come and experiment with lots of different firearms and get expert instruction........

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-19-2017, 10:32 PM
If only there was a shotgun class sometime next month, where someone could come and experiment with lots of different firearms and get expert instruction........

Well I/we do know a couple of melon heads that do hang out @ DPC occasionally, perhaps they could be persuaded to start offering a SG class like you describe.

SeriousStudent
07-19-2017, 11:05 PM
Well I/we do know a couple of melon heads that do hang out @ DPC occasionally, perhaps they could be persuaded to start offering a SG class like you describe.

Yes, like this one:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?26797-HiTS-One-Day-Shotgun-Aug-27-2017-Dallas

:cool:

rd62
07-21-2017, 08:37 PM
Any specific recommendations for a good mag clamp with rail for my 870 with Wilson Combat mag tube extension? I'm wanting to finally add a light.

UNK
07-21-2017, 09:01 PM
Any specific recommendations for a good mag clamp with rail for my 870 with Wilson Combat mag tube extension? I'm wanting to finally add a light.

The CDM Mod C was recommended earlier but the pics are no longer available. It illuminated the front sight nicely. http://www.cdmgear.com/lightmounts.html

Nephrology
07-22-2017, 09:07 AM
For whatever it's worth, I ended up going with the DSF at $240 like new. Getting the gun + all my parts in on Tuesday. Only thing left is the magpul SGA but after spending all that money I'll use the $25 youth stock for the time being :) I'll definitely be buying one down the line.

nalesq
07-22-2017, 09:31 AM
Any specific recommendations for a good mag clamp with rail for my 870 with Wilson Combat mag tube extension? I'm wanting to finally add a light.

RS Regulate makes a barrel clamp with rail that will fit on the 870, known as the model BM-12. I have used this to attach a light, and it seems to work pretty well:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/00e54252b40fb0889668e8f83b1f71c6.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

farscott
07-22-2017, 10:04 AM
I own all three lights. I would go with the DSF-870.

The switches are easier to manipulate. They are also set up so you have fewer light "ND's". The weight is nice and light, the latest unit is relatively compact as well.

Best of all, it is configured to be easiest to operate with the "push-pull" method of recoil control taught by Rob Haught.

The oldest Laser Products (or first generation) is my second favorite. The 618 is my least favorite, and now resides on the shotgun I shoot the least.

Funny how personal Surefire selection is. I actually prefer the 618, but that may be due to a lack of experience with the newer lights. I picked up a police trade-in 870 without a barrel but with a 618, peep rear sight, WC magazine follower, and a Speedfeed IV-S on it for $269 from Mark at Summit Gun Broker. The rubber exterior of the momentary switch was separated, so I contacted Surefire for an RMA. It was repaired at zero cost, and I picked up a Malkoff MDSFFE-2 LED upgrade for $100. I added a factory Parkerized 870P barrel with a fixed IC choke and tritium bead for $100.

I adjusted the rear sight when I patterned the gun on the pattern board, used that to get close for FliteControl slugs, and then zeroed it with the slugs. It is now the 870 I use the most, and I have even used it to shoot skeet as practice running th gun. It does balance a bit too forward due to the weight of the light, but it is really dead in the hands with a loaded side-saddle. As such, I do not keep any spare ammo on the gun as I want the gun to swing smoothly without effort.

Pretty good shotgun for less than $500 invested.

Nephrology
07-22-2017, 10:33 AM
Funny how personal Surefire selection is. I actually prefer the 618, but that may be due to a lack of experience with the newer lights. I picked up a police trade-in 870 without a barrel but with a 618, peep rear sight, WC magazine follower, and a Speedfeed IV-S on it for $269 from Mark at Summit Gun Broker. The rubber exterior of the momentary switch was separated, so I contacted Surefire for an RMA. It was repaired at zero cost, and I picked up a Malkoff MDSFFE-2 LED upgrade for $100. I added a factory Parkerized 870P barrel with a fixed IC choke and tritium bead for $100.

I adjusted the rear sight when I patterned the gun on the pattern board, used that to get close for FliteControl slugs, and then zeroed it with the slugs. It is now the 870 I use the most, and I have even used it to shoot skeet as practice running th gun. It does balance a bit too forward due to the weight of the light, but it is really dead in the hands with a loaded side-saddle. As such, I do not keep any spare ammo on the gun as I want the gun to swing smoothly without effort.

Pretty good shotgun for less than $500 invested.

Wow, that's an incredible deal. I've looked at his inventory before but didn't know he was selling guns with surefires. Should have let a brother know! :)

Where did you get the 870 barrel with the tritium bead for $100?

Mine will be just south of $600, a little over when I eventually get the magpul SGA.

farscott
07-22-2017, 10:48 AM
Wow, that's an incredible deal. I've looked at his inventory before but didn't know he was selling guns with surefires. Should have let a brother know! :)

Where did you get the 870 barrel with the tritium bead for $100?

Mine will be just south of $600, a little over when I eventually get the magpul SGA.

I think I posted about the 870 with the Surefire when Mark was selling them a few years ago. I found the barrel on one of the gun boards. I went through a period of time when I bought every decent 870P or Wingmaster that crossed my path for less than $300. As such, I was always scrounging for deals on 870 parts and accessories.

Nephrology
07-27-2017, 08:17 AM
Well looks like I got the version of the DSF that drains batteries - killed the CR123s that came with it overnight. I'll be giving them a call today. I am sure they'll take care of me.

rd62
07-28-2017, 07:54 PM
RS Regulate makes a barrel clamp with rail that will fit on the 870, known as the model BM-12. I have used this to attach a light, and it seems to work pretty well:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/00e54252b40fb0889668e8f83b1f71c6.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

So, moving forward with the 870 mounted light, regardless of the mount I go with I'll need a light too obviously. It's been a while since I've bought one to mount on a long gun. The last 2 were a Surefire G2 Led and a Streamlight Polytac. I really liked the Polytac for it's bang for the buck but I see now they appear to be dual output which is a no go. What's the consensus go to light for this role now?

David S.
07-29-2017, 05:42 PM
VC Dome safety and Magpul stock added just in time for Dagga's upcoming shotgun class.

blues
07-29-2017, 05:52 PM
I broke down and ordered the Magpul stock earlier today after Sherman insisted...

http://blog.schneider-electric.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Henrik.png

"Any more smart remarks you'd care to make about the Magpul stock? Hmmm...?"

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-29-2017, 06:23 PM
David I'll be stunned if you tell me @ the class you don't like both of those mods. My two VCS 870's came w/ the dome headed safeties, then I tweaked 'em a tad more w/ the MP stocks.

Blues I never realized you & D. Hoffman had so much in common but regardless I'll also be surprised if you don't like your MP stock.

Coyotesfan97
07-29-2017, 10:03 PM
I just updated the flashlight in my Surefire forend to the LED version. Much better!!

blues
08-02-2017, 04:17 PM
Want to say thanks to Sherman and those of you who pressed the issue regarding the superiority of the Magpul SGA stock for the 870 over the OEM polymer stock.

Received mine earlier this afternoon and right away I could feel how much better it fit my frame in its smallest configuration...no spacers required.

The balance of my 870 feels much better now as it doesn't feel heavy toward the muzzle / Surefire forend, the length of pull is just fine and interestingly enough, the tip of my nose seems to still be about the same distance from the base knuckle of my right thumb. That sort of surprised me.

The comfort of my right wrist is enhanced by the angle of the grip...and as a bonus, my old Blackhawk Swift Sling still works with the new stock without impairing my cheek weld.

Granted, I haven't fired it yet but all in all it seems like a winner and money well spent, especially considering I seemed to have found a reasonably good price.

Thanks again guys.

Nephrology
08-02-2017, 04:19 PM
Want to say thanks to Sherman and those of you who pressed the issue regarding the superiority of the Magpul SGA stock for the 870 over the OEM polymer stock.

Received mine earlier this afternoon and right away I could feel how much better it fit my frame in its smallest configuration...no spacers required.

The balance of my 870 feels much better now as it doesn't feel heavy toward the muzzle / Surefire forend, the length of pull is just fine and interestingly enough, the tip of my nose seems to still be about the same distance from the base knuckle of my right thumb. That sort of surprised me.

The comfort of my right wrist is enhanced by the angle of the grip...and as a bonus, my old Blackhawk Swift Sling still works with the new stock without impairing my cheek weld.

Granted, I haven't fired it yet but all in all it seems like a winner and money well spent, especially considering I seemed to have found a reasonably good price.

Thanks again guys.

100% agreed. I found that adding one spacer made it perfect for me; no spacers and I felt like my nose was up against the rear tang.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
08-02-2017, 06:16 PM
Want to say thanks to Sherman and those of you who pressed the issue regarding the superiority of the Magpul SGA stock for the 870 over the OEM polymer stock.

Received mine earlier this afternoon and right away I could feel how much better it fit my frame in its smallest configuration...no spacers required.

The balance of my 870 feels much better now as it doesn't feel heavy toward the muzzle / Surefire forend, the length of pull is just fine and interestingly enough, the tip of my nose seems to still be about the same distance from the base knuckle of my right thumb. That sort of surprised me.

The comfort of my right wrist is enhanced by the angle of the grip...and as a bonus, my old Blackhawk Swift Sling still works with the new stock without impairing my cheek weld.

Granted, I haven't fired it yet but all in all it seems like a winner and money well spent, especially considering I seemed to have found a reasonably good price.

Thanks again guys.

Blues both yours & Neph's summaries nicely describe why I have MP SGA's on both my VCS 870s.

That said I'm REALLY anxious to get Adam's adapter for my MP/Mossberg stock that will go on my 1301T, only neg is it won't be available until after DB's class @ the end of Aug., yeah I know first world problems etc.

blues
08-02-2017, 06:20 PM
Blues both yours & Neph's summaries nicely describe why I have MP SGA's on both my VCS 870s.

That said I'lm REALLY anxious to get Adam's adapter for my MP/Mossberg stock to will go on my 1301T, only neg is it's won't be available until after DB's class @ the end of Aug., yeah I know first world problems etc.

I owe you thanks as well, brother, for your encouragement re: picking up this stock. You and Sherm should get a certificate from Magpul for being such good ambassadors. :cool:

I'm covering my eyes and sticking fingers in my ears now before you start getting me traveling down the road toward any other shotguns. ;)

Chuck Whitlock
08-03-2017, 08:19 AM
Want to say thanks to Sherman and those of you who pressed the issue regarding the superiority of the Magpul SGA stock for the 870 over the OEM polymer stock.

Received mine earlier this afternoon and right away I could feel how much better it fit my frame in its smallest configuration...no spacers required.

The balance of my 870 feels much better now as it doesn't feel heavy toward the muzzle / Surefire forend, the length of pull is just fine and interestingly enough, the tip of my nose seems to still be about the same distance from the base knuckle of my right thumb. That sort of surprised me.

The comfort of my right wrist is enhanced by the angle of the grip...and as a bonus, my old Blackhawk Swift Sling still works with the new stock without impairing my cheek weld.

Granted, I haven't fired it yet but all in all it seems like a winner and money well spent, especially considering I seemed to have found a reasonably good price.

Thanks again guys.

It's hard to describe. I haven't shot with one yet, and thought they looked....different...when they came out. But as soon as I shouldered one, I "got it".

I just wish they made one for a Benelli M1.

Tabasco
08-03-2017, 06:56 PM
Want to say thanks to Sherman and those of you who pressed the issue regarding the superiority of the Magpul SGA stock for the 870 over the OEM polymer stock.

Received mine earlier this afternoon and right away I could feel how much better it fit my frame in its smallest configuration...no spacers required.

The balance of my 870 feels much better now as it doesn't feel heavy toward the muzzle / Surefire forend, the length of pull is just fine and interestingly enough, the tip of my nose seems to still be about the same distance from the base knuckle of my right thumb. That sort of surprised me.

The comfort of my right wrist is enhanced by the angle of the grip...and as a bonus, my old Blackhawk Swift Sling still works with the new stock without impairing my cheek weld.

Granted, I haven't fired it yet but all in all it seems like a winner and money well spent, especially considering I seemed to have found a reasonably good price.

Thanks again guys.

I used to have one of those Hogue 11" LOP stocks on my favorite Mossberg 590A1. Loved the short LOP, but my thumb bonked my nose when I shot it. Figured I'd try one of the Magpul stocks, and was hooked ever since.

GJM
08-06-2017, 04:47 PM
Really encourage you to go put that pump on a timer. After zeroing a 14 inch Benelli Nova this morning, I did just that. Apparently all that 870 shooting in my past didn't stick, because it sure was ugly compared to my M2.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
08-06-2017, 06:06 PM
Really encourage you to go put that pump on a timer. After zeroing a 14 inch Benelli Nova this morning, I did just that. Apparently all that 870 shooting in my past didn't stick, because it sure was ugly compared to my M2.

George did you zero that Nova seated @ 25ish like you told me previously?

GJM
08-06-2017, 06:24 PM
George did you zero that Nova seated @ 25ish like you told me previously?

Yes, that is my standard shotgun zero.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
08-06-2017, 06:34 PM
Just verifying, need to re-zero my 1301 & VCS 870 before I see Casanova @ a SG tuneup in a few weeks UNLESS he succumbs first to the massive throes of heat he's been experiencing lately.

ssb
01-26-2018, 10:20 AM
https://i.imgur.com/ZUsdiH0.jpg

In its final form:
- VCS Big Dome safety
- VCS 870 follower
- Wolff +10% magazine spring
- 18.5" XS Rifle Sights barrel
- Surefire 618 with LED upgrade
- Magpul SGA stock
- Magpul SGA sling mount
- 3M velcro on the receiver

Ultimately I returned to no extension for this gun. I've had +2 and +1 extensions on the gun previously, but I prefer the balance and pointability of the gun with no extension. Four rounds is likely to be sufficient for my use (grab the gun, point it at the bedroom door, call 911 and wait), but if I feel so inclined I can slap a 5-round saddle on there.

Given the prevalence of tight-patterning buckshot loads I was uncomfortable not having a rear reference for my front sight, so... I spent $240 on the factory XS rifle sight barrel. Realistically it's probably the least necessary part on the gun but I'm quite happy with it in dry fire. I've never been a shotgun shooter and the little bit of shooting this thing has seen yielded inconsistent results with FC buckshot and a bead (typically elevation errors).

I picked up some dummy rounds and have been working the brass-up reloads detailed here (https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/reload-defensive-shotgun/). I've also been drilling myself to work the action immediately after pressing the trigger. I've not yet had a short-stroke in dry fire, but live performance remains to be seen.

I do not feel a sling is necessary for my use but I nevertheless have some options if I decide to attach one for some reason.

The only remaining may-purchase is a VCS side saddle. The 3M directly taped to the receiver doesn't inspire a lot of confidence over the long term. Nevertheless, it's a spendy upgrade for what it is so I'm still on the fence. At this point I don't know that I want to go with a permanently-mounted saddle, though a class environment may change (or reinforce) that opinion.

The next step is a training class next month with Lee Weems, so I'll see how the gun shakes out after proper instruction on its use. I'll be bringing both Federal FC 00 buck and Remington LE 8-pellet buck with me to pattern the gun. My experience with FC buck in the past is that it's effectively a slug at HD distance. I'm curious if that's too much of a good thing, hence the Remington stuff.

Tabasco
01-26-2018, 11:29 AM
I love my XS sights on my 870. Slugs and buck are dead on at 25 yards, but slug accuracy seems to become erratic after 25 yards (as opposed to my ghost ring sighted Mossberg). Expect 5" patterns at 15 yards with FliteControl/Versatite wad ammunition and 12" at 25 yards. Note that the IC choke opens FC patterns a bit compared to cylinder (5" vs. 3" @ 15 yards), but it's kind of a good thing for home defense, IMO. My crazy over bored cylinder 870 barrel shoots 4" patterns at 50 yards with #1 FC, which is a bit much.

HCM
01-26-2018, 11:50 AM
I have the same barrel. Mine came with the rear sight off center to the left and hit left. Needed to center it up. Remington ......

Tabasco
01-26-2018, 08:55 PM
I have the same barrel. Mine came with the rear sight off center to the left and hit left. Needed to center it up. Remington ......

I bought a second XS sight barrel for my other 870. This one came with the wrong front sight blade, the one intended for the Express Tactical with the XS ghost ring setup. Slugs would impact 11" below point of aim. Had to return it, then the vendor ran out of stock, so ended up getting the 18" rifle sight with cyl. barrel. That one works great. Remington....

Guerrero
05-09-2018, 08:09 PM
I have the opportunity to purchase a police turn-in 870 Police Magnum and I'm wondering what I should look for or what questions I should ask. I already found out that it has a metal trigger guard, so it appears to be a pre-2008 model.

Hambo
05-10-2018, 06:11 AM
I have the opportunity to purchase a police turn-in 870 Police Magnum and I'm wondering what I should look for or what questions I should ask. I already found out that it has a metal trigger guard, so it appears to be a pre-2008 model.

There's only one question: is that the best you can do on the price?

farscott
05-10-2018, 07:20 AM
I have the opportunity to purchase a police turn-in 870 Police Magnum and I'm wondering what I should look for or what questions I should ask. I already found out that it has a metal trigger guard, so it appears to be a pre-2008 model.

I always check the following:

1) The receiver is really setup for the three-inch shells. If from the factory, the serial number will end with "M". If not, it will end with "V". The "V" guns can be modified to handle three-inch shells by moving the ejector. Once you have seen it, it is obvious. I use the "V" guns as a way to drive the sale price down as the gun is not a true "Magnum". I only shoot 2-3/4" shells, so no issue for me.

2) Make sure barrel is also chambered for three-inch shells. If 2-3/4", it is not a "Magnum".

3) Make sure the whole FlexiTab system is installed. Bolt carrier, bolt, and slide plate with the upgrades are obvious. I have seen guns with the bolt and slide plate swapped to the older parts, leaving the carrier. http://www.rem870.com/2017/05/26/what-is-remington-870-flexitab-system-parts-differences-identification/

4) Look for cracked and/or oil-soaked stocks.

5) Look for non-functional shell latches. Feeding dummy rounds is the best test if possible.

6) Look for rust in magazine tube. Look for dimples if it is an Express Magnum and not a Police Magnum.

7) Ensure magazine cap and barrel ring have detent and ball, not the Express version.

Guerrero
05-10-2018, 08:35 AM
There's only one question: is that the best you can do on the price?

Moot point now. They're gone. Was a pretty good price, though.

farscott
05-10-2018, 08:46 AM
Moot point now. They're gone. Was a pretty good price, though.

If they are from Summit Gun Broker, they are good-to-go. Mark buys a lot of agency guns, so there will be more in the near future.

NPV
05-10-2018, 12:33 PM
Rat-Worx also has some Police Magnums left on their website as well as some Wingmasters on GB. I give credit to TCinVA for pointing me to these.

Guerrero
05-10-2018, 01:48 PM
Rat-Worx also has some Police Magnums left on their website as well as some Wingmasters on GB. I give credit to TCinVA for pointing me to these.

Thanks for the tip. Those appear to be 20" barrels with a bead sight. That a big deal?

NPV
05-10-2018, 01:52 PM
Thanks for the tip. Those appear to be 20" barrels with a bead sight. That a big deal?

If it were me I would get the sights replaced with either Ghost Rings from Wilson or maybe look for a barrel with rifle sights already installed.

TCinVA
05-10-2018, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the tip. Those appear to be 20" barrels with a bead sight. That a big deal?

As mentioned, not really. I prefer rifle style sights on a defensive gun...but you can achieve that with a replacement barrel or by having Vang Comp put Remington rifle sights on that barrel.

OlongJohnson
01-09-2019, 05:31 PM
Speaking of rifle style sights...

https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/barrel-parts/barrels/barrel-18-police-w-rifle-sights-parkerized-imp-cyl-prod26926.aspx

10 percent off and free shipping with the code VD4 today.

Norville
01-09-2019, 10:08 PM
Speaking of rifle style sights...

https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/barrel-parts/barrels/barrel-18-police-w-rifle-sights-parkerized-imp-cyl-prod26926.aspx

10 percent off and free shipping with the code VD4 today.

A great deal. I just picked up an 18” low profile XS sighted barrel or I would grab one of these.

Mjolnir
04-06-2019, 06:44 AM
1. Mesa Tac rail with Aimpoint Micro or the standard bead. I don't like GRS on shotguns, but you may. Can always try it,
2. Add +2 Nordic ext
3. I don't like side saddles so no comment
4. The Surefire forend is good but the magpul with rail & your choice of light is too
5. OEM stock works but I really like the Magpul stock
6. Your base gun needs to be a Police model or just get a 590A1 or M2. You literally could not give me a current production 870 express.

Could you not replace the extractor and polymer fire control group with the proper aluminum FCG on an Express and call it good?


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rob_s
04-06-2019, 07:06 AM
Could you not replace the extractor and polymer fire control group with the proper aluminum FCG on an Express and call it good?


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Having gone down that theoretical path in my own head, what I arrived at was that I’d rather have a used 870p than a new 870e and the associated fiddle-fuck.

I made two mods to date to my police-trade-in 870. I put a +1 extender on it, and a Velcro-attached side-saddle. Both mods I’d have done to an E anyway, and in the case of the extender exponentially easier on the P than the E.

I seem to recall there also being a difference in the pump-action between the two as well? Somebody correct me if I’m wrong. I suppose that doesn’t really matter for a gun that’s just going to sit in a closet for 40 years.

ssb
04-06-2019, 12:42 PM
Could you not replace the extractor and polymer fire control group with the proper aluminum FCG on an Express and call it good?


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I replaced the extractor on my old 870 Express. I wasn't concerned about the polymer trigger group.

I had no reliability issues, and the gun went through two shotgun classes in a year and maybe 1,000 total rounds fired. It was still poorly finished. They've obviously simplified the machining, though the action broke in well enough after I spent an afternoon watching TV and working it in. After a shotgun class which involved a bit of light rain, I dealt with persistent rust issues. I ended up selling it and outfitting a used 870P with the parts, which is what I probably should have done in the first place.

Willard
04-06-2019, 04:11 PM
I seem to recall there also being a difference in the pump-action between the two as well? Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.

Shorter length foreend on the police model as I remember.

Mjolnir
04-07-2019, 08:13 AM
I have a Scattergun Technologies 870 that I purchased several years ago and it was old stock (4.5 years old it sat in the store).

The machining inside the receiver was perfect.

It used Express internals and just this week (Friday to be exact) I simply replaced the breech bolt assembly and FCG.

I had previously installed a Hogue rubberized short forend and a MagPul buttstock.

So I should have qualified my response.

I would purchase old 870s and will. I think the 870 P Aluminum Trigger Guard has a stronger hammer spring, Volquartzen has a milled extractor and MagPul has ergo, short length of pull buttstocks and Hogue has its grippy, short forends.

Maybe have robust sights brazed on the receiver and (new) barrel; why not braze a Picatinny Raul while you’re at it?

That’s the plan, anyway.

I’ve not disassembled a new Express; in fact this is the first time I’ve been in an 870.


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Mjolnir
04-08-2019, 04:54 PM
What is the recommendation for left side receiver mounted shell carrier?

I was recommended the Mesa Tactical Aluminum Shell holder.

What’s the take on these?

Thanks in advance.


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SeriousStudent
04-08-2019, 06:51 PM
I personally would either go with an Aridus or just plain industrial Velcro from Amazon. I have used both, and have shotguns set up both ways.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
04-08-2019, 08:27 PM
I personally would either go with an Aridus or just plain industrial Velcro from Amazon. I have used both, and have shotguns set up both ways.

Like Serious I’ve also used both but the Aridus setup IMO is The Answer ........ if ya got the coin & if not then go velcro.

HCM
04-08-2019, 10:41 PM
I’ve lost shells in field use with the Velcro tabs.

We switched from Tac Stars to Mesa at work. The Mesas are a distinct improvement.

I will try an Aridus one of these days.

rob_s
04-09-2019, 05:36 AM
What is the recommendation for left side receiver mounted shell carrier?

I was recommended the Mesa Tactical Aluminum Shell holder.

What’s the take on these?

Thanks in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have. Velcro one from I don’t know who. HSGI maybe? I think mine holds 6 though (a mistake imo, it’s too long)
https://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/shottray-v2-95SS01.html

Mine is a safe gun. If I was required to take it outside and use it for real things, I don’t think I’d trust the Velcro system.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
04-09-2019, 07:03 AM
I have. Velcro one from I don’t know who. HSGI maybe? I think mine holds 6 though (a mistake imo, it’s too long)
https://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/shottray-v2-95SS01.html

Mine is a safe gun. If I was required to take it outside and use it for real things, I don’t think I’d trust the Velcro system.

I started w/ the Mesa long ago & zero issues w/ it over the years.

After moving from a VC 870 to a 1301T thought I'd save an oz. or two w/ velcro BUT didn't find the juice equal to the squeeze after using velcro in a DB/HIT's class.

Coon fingered Jackdog's SG w/ the Aridus setup later in that tuneup & now have Adam's product on both of my 1301s, an easy day IMO.

Mjolnir
04-09-2019, 09:36 AM
Thanks, guys.

All these years I had a shotgun or three just collecting dust and I think a mosquito bit me just right and I’m now “interested”.

I think they’ll be fun and of value if I ever have to defend the place.

[emoji1431][emoji1431]


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TCinVA
04-10-2019, 09:11 PM
What is the recommendation for left side receiver mounted shell carrier?

I was recommended the Mesa Tactical Aluminum Shell holder.

What’s the take on these?

Thanks in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Either the Aridus or the Vang Comp shell cards.

I use industrial strength velcro on the receiver of my gun and then attach the Vang Comp cards. Works splendidly and holds up to all the abuse my guns go through in my practice and in class.

Aray
04-11-2019, 09:39 AM
Shorter length foreend on the police model as I remember.

This minimizes interference between the fore end and a shell carrier.

There are a number of differences between the Express and Police models, let me see if I can find the old Remington document I have somewhere.

Aray
04-11-2019, 09:43 AM
From Remington: (note, it references Ilion NY as the build location, showing the age of this info)

The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market. It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality. All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences. It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models. Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.


While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police. To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance.


Synopses of the variances are provided below.


• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.


• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.


• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.


• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.


• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive triggerpull between 5 and 8 lbs.


• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.


• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.


• The fore-end on the Express modelis longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.


• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.


• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tubewithout physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.


• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.


• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.


• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.


• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.


• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

LHS
04-11-2019, 01:27 PM
What is the recommendation for left side receiver mounted shell carrier?

I was recommended the Mesa Tactical Aluminum Shell holder.

What’s the take on these?

Thanks in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm a fan of the Aridus Q-DC. It's expensive, but the consistency of presentation and retention is a big thing for me. And I confess, I'm still leery of any kind of adhesive given the kind of heat I see here in southern AZ. It's also nice how the spare carriers will fit in AR mag pouches (though to be fair, so do the velcro-backed shell cards). I've not used the Vang shell cards on any of my personal guns, but I know quite a few folks who have and report good results over years of use.

The old TacStar sidesaddles work, but they tend to lose shells held hull-down especially as they age and loosen up. The Mesa sidesaddles have a similar issue when the rubber tubing starts to age and wear.

Aray
04-12-2019, 07:40 AM
I'm a fan of the Aridus Q-DC. It's expensive, but the consistency of presentation and retention is a big thing for me. And I confess, I'm still leery of any kind of adhesive given the kind of heat I see here in southern AZ. It's also nice how the spare carriers will fit in AR mag pouches (though to be fair, so do the velcro-backed shell cards). I've not used the Vang shell cards on any of my personal guns, but I know quite a few folks who have and report good results over years of use.

The old TacStar sidesaddles work, but they tend to lose shells held hull-down especially as they age and loosen up. The Mesa sidesaddles have a similar issue when the rubber tubing starts to age and wear.

This is exactly what I have seen also.

rob_s
04-12-2019, 09:53 AM
The Aridus (https://www.aridusindustries.com/product-category/qdc/) *looks* bulky as hell to me. Is it not?

I'm pretty sure I don't care about QD either, and if they made a direct-attach version maybe it'd also be less bulky?

For home use I'm fine with my Velcro (I think it turns out I have the Vang Comp version (https://vangcomp.com/product/vcs-detachable-side-ammunition-carrier/), but frankly I'm not even sure anymore). If I was a cop potentially out running around the city or wilderness I don't know that I'd have the greatest confidence in the Velcro-attach versions and might be willing to deal with the bulk of the Aridus.

LHS
04-15-2019, 06:44 PM
The Aridus (https://www.aridusindustries.com/product-category/qdc/) *looks* bulky as hell to me. Is it not?

I'm pretty sure I don't care about QD either, and if they made a direct-attach version maybe it'd also be less bulky?

For home use I'm fine with my Velcro (I think it turns out I have the Vang Comp version (https://vangcomp.com/product/vcs-detachable-side-ammunition-carrier/), but frankly I'm not even sure anymore). If I was a cop potentially out running around the city or wilderness I don't know that I'd have the greatest confidence in the Velcro-attach versions and might be willing to deal with the bulk of the Aridus.

The QD-C is a bit bulkier, but not appreciably enough that it impacts handling of the weapon. It does make it a bit clunkier to Tetris into the safe with the other guns, and I would imagine it could be an issue with some cruiser storage racks, but the latter doesn't apply to me and the former is resolved by simply removing the carrier (which then makes it slimmer than a traditional sidesaddle)

Wake27
04-15-2019, 06:50 PM
I got an Aridus CROM today to mount my Crossfire. Curious to see how this thing does on a 12 gauge. I love the CROM so far, wish Brownells would’ve had the QD-C in stock too. Mesa saddle is enroute while I wait on that one, Magpul furniture will be next. I’m very tempted to try this out at JDC’s upcoming class since I’m garbage with shotguns.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190415/3004f6676445e52576d5b298bbffd11c.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190415/f8817effa23aaa39ff3d55b8589d10d4.jpg


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pangloss
04-15-2019, 08:16 PM
I got an Aridus CROM today to mount my Crossfire. Curious to see how this thing does on a 12 gauge. I love the CROM so far, wish Brownells would’ve had the QD-C in stock too. Mesa saddle is enroute while I wait on that one, Magpul furniture will be next. I’m very tempted to try this out at JDC’s upcoming class since I’m garbage with shotguns.

I had no idea those mounts existed (LINK (https://www.aridusindustries.com/product-category/crom/))! I'll have to think seriously about putting my RMR on an 870 now, especially since it's not on any other gun right now. Please let us know what you think of the mount after you've shot with it.

Wake27
04-15-2019, 09:01 PM
I had no idea those mounts existed (LINK (https://www.aridusindustries.com/product-category/crom/))! I'll have to think seriously about putting my RMR on an 870 now, especially since it's not on any other gun right now. Please let us know what you think of the mount after you've shot with it.

If you do some Googling, there are a fair amount of promising reviews - I expect that it’ll perform perfectly. But hopefully I can get into at least a one day class and test for sure.


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TCinVA
04-16-2019, 07:45 AM
I had no idea those mounts existed (LINK (https://www.aridusindustries.com/product-category/crom/))! I'll have to think seriously about putting my RMR on an 870 now, especially since it's not on any other gun right now. Please let us know what you think of the mount after you've shot with it.

I've got one on my 1301:

37306

It's the best option for an optics mount on a shotgun going. It sits the optic at the same level as iron sights which means you can mount the gun normally and still get a solid sighting reference.

Aray
04-16-2019, 09:28 AM
I had no idea those mounts existed (LINK (https://www.aridusindustries.com/product-category/crom/))! I'll have to think seriously about putting my RMR on an 870 now, especially since it's not on any other gun right now. Please let us know what you think of the mount after you've shot with it.

I have a CROM on an 870 with a T-1 and one on a 1301 with an RMR-1. Disclosure, I was a beta tester for both of them.

I beat these things every which way but loose, they are absolutely rock solid.

I agree with TCinVA, there is no better mount on the market.

ETA: The RMR-1 failed short of 100 rounds. BLINK BLINK BLINK. I sent it back to Trijicon, it now has 200 rounds on the RMR without a problem, yet.

LHS
04-23-2019, 09:17 PM
I was one of the 870/Micro CROM beta testers and thought it was an excellent mount. It fixes the issue I have with a lot of other shotgun optic mounts, in that it allows me to keep a more natural mount of the shotgun against my shoulder/cheek. Other mounts that I've used sit the optic too high, and make the shotgun feel less, well, for lack of a better term, less natural.

I also put it on the clock against some steel at 12 yards (I wanted enough distance that the sights really come into play, vs. just index-shooting up close), and ran some pairs from the low ready with the optic both on and off (using just the irons). I found a consistent improvement in both my time to first round hit, as well as splits. Now, on occasion I'd be able to get the dot on target and press off a shot before I had the gun mounted solidly, which slowed down my splits, but that went away pretty quickly as I got used to the new setup.

Photo of me AI-ing at a shotgun class a couple years back with the CROMed-out 870

Aray
04-24-2019, 08:23 AM
I was one of the 870/Micro CROM beta testers and thought it was an excellent mount.

I never realized that LHS was you!

LHS
04-25-2019, 04:43 PM
I never realized that LHS was you!

An old gamer tag from the days when anonymity still meant something ;)

John91
06-13-2019, 07:15 PM
Does anyone have experience with lancer carbon fiber mag tube extensions. It seems like a good way to keep the front end from being as heavy. Are they duty grade or just for competition use. My application is home defense.

https://lancer-systems.com/awc/product/remington/


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Sammy1
06-14-2019, 07:48 PM
For home defense I'm partial to a bead sight, velcro shell holders and a light attached. I also run low recoil buckshot, no birdshot or slugs. If you can find a Mossberg with the surefire foreend already on you'll save money. Magpul foreends also offer easy light attachments.

willie
06-14-2019, 11:10 PM
I like +1 extensions. Rem makes a 12 ga synthetic youth stock that’s 1 inch shorter than standard. I’ve been drinking 870 Kool Aid since before many here were born. But before I spent a ton of money on an 870, I would buy a
Beretta 1301, put a light on it, and not look back. If you do buy an 870, consider not hanging so much shit on it that the result resembles a Christmas tree.Then a once agile shotgun becomes clumsy.

Lon
06-15-2019, 07:52 AM
Does anyone have experience with lancer carbon fiber mag tube extensions. It seems like a good way to keep the front end from being as heavy. Are they duty grade or just for competition use. My application is home defense.

https://lancer-systems.com/awc/product/remington/


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They look nice. You should buy one and do a review on it after you run it through its paces. 😎

pangloss
06-15-2019, 11:23 PM
I like +1 extensions. Rem makes a 12 ga synthetic youth stock that’s 1 inch shorter than standard. I’ve been drinking 870 Kool Aid since before many here were born. But before I spent a ton of money on an 870, I would buy a
Beretta 1301, put a light on it, and not look back. If you do buy an 870, consider not hanging so much shit on it that the result resembles a Christmas tree.Then a once agile shotgun becomes clumsy.

I replaced a factory +2 extension with a Wilson +1, and the improvement in how nimble the gun feels was dramatic.

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Gun Mutt
11-21-2021, 11:47 AM
Seems better to necro this thread than to start a new one.

A friend and fellow shotgun enthusiast asked me to check the PF hive mind with a Surefire question and going through this thread, I stumbled across some references to what he's asking, but I still don't know that I've found any answers for him. His text reads:

"There's an upgrade for Surefire forends, basically the whole battery tube and light head that unscrews to be swapped out with to a newer, higher lumen LED bulb. Still uses 2, CR123 batteries, but with a much brighter and more modern light. They ain't cheap, pretty sure Surefire sells one for a couple hundred bucks, 99% sure I read of an aftermarket version that's equally tits and cheaper. Can you ask on PF for me?"

So there, I've asked.

farscott
11-21-2021, 11:55 AM
Malkoff Devices has the replacement LED modules at https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/surefire-forend-upgrades and I use the two-cell version with great results.

TCinVA
11-23-2021, 06:01 PM
I'd buy the Malkoff, personally.

revchuck38
11-24-2021, 06:37 AM
I finally got around to spray painting the orange Surefire forend that came on my police trade-in 870, which had been set up as less-lethal. Now I get to spend some more money on it...

Gun Mutt
11-24-2021, 06:47 AM
I'd buy the Malkoff, personally.

In fact, he did. Same day farscott provided his reply. PF enables far beyond just its members.

Seven_Sicks_Two
12-21-2021, 12:21 PM
Another necro:

I've got a circa-2002 Express with both an 18" pedestal bead barrel, and a 28" vent rib. I'm kicking around the idea of adding some sights to the 18" tube. I want to retain the ability to use the 28" barrel as a loaner duck gun, so I'd like to avoid a receiver mounted ghost ring rear. The problem is, it's 2021 (well, almost 2022), and Remington's recent bankruptcy/restructuring has made lots of parts/guns/barrels unobtainable or hilariously expensive. Is there anyone that can add rifle sights to to my existing barrel? Or does the hive have any other recommendations?

Lon
12-21-2021, 05:08 PM
Another necro:

I've got a circa-2002 Express with both an 18" pedestal bead barrel, and a 28" vent rib. I'm kicking around the idea of adding some sights to the 18" tube. I want to retain the ability to use the 28" barrel as a loaner duck gun, so I'd like to avoid a receiver mounted ghost ring rear. The problem is, it's 2021 (well, almost 2022), and Remington's recent bankruptcy/restructuring has made lots of parts/guns/barrels unobtainable or hilariously expensive. Is there anyone that can add rifle sights to to my existing barrel? Or does the hive have any other recommendations?

If I were you I’d reach out to Vang Comp, Wilson Combat or Cotton Branch Custom to see if they can help you out.

DDTSGM
12-21-2021, 06:13 PM
Another necro:

I've got a circa-2002 Express with both an 18" pedestal bead barrel, and a 28" vent rib. I'm kicking around the idea of adding some sights to the 18" tube. I want to retain the ability to use the 28" barrel as a loaner duck gun, so I'd like to avoid a receiver mounted ghost ring rear. The problem is, it's 2021 (well, almost 2022), and Remington's recent bankruptcy/restructuring has made lots of parts/guns/barrels unobtainable or hilariously expensive. Is there anyone that can add rifle sights to to my existing barrel? Or does the hive have any other recommendations?

I think the best bet might be to cruise pawn shops and LGS's for a non-rifled slug barrel

Assuming you would consider tapping the receiver for a rail (could be removed for duck hunting):

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-jfmhkvmkfh/images/stencil/original/products/181/601/RE-4001R-4_angle_20201208__26864.1616184477.jpg

https://xssights.com/rail-ghost-ring-standard-dot-shotgun-bead-remington/ ($212.00)

I had these on the 870 Express that I lost in my trailer fire - I had a 21" vent rib turkey barrel on the shotgun: (https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/F240333 - bought several years ago, IIRC $179.00)

https://www.hivizsights.com/product/rm2013/ (not bad if you already have the vent rib barrel)

Or, this is an option:

https://www.burrisoptics.com/sights/speedbead-systems MSRP is $323 can be had cheaper elsewhere, $269 on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Burris-SpeedBead-Mounting-Fastfire-Shotgun/dp/B001F0IMUO?th=1

Apply the ease, speed, and accuracy of a red dot sighting system to your favorite shotgun with this unique mounting system.

The SpeedBead™ mounts a FastFire™ optic between the stock and receiver of many popular shotguns.

Your line of sight will fall naturally just above the vented rib, allowing for accurate and instinctive aiming.

At 1x magnification, it's designed for both-eyes-open shooting. That's ideal for shooting clays and hunting waterfowl, upland birds, and turkeys.

Mounts low between the stock and receiver
Line of sight falls just above the vented rib for accurate aiming

farscott
12-21-2021, 07:37 PM
Got to handle a new production 870 Express. I took it out of the box and put it together so it could go on the rack to be sold. The metal work and finish were as good as Remington ever produced, and the metal finish on this one was closer to a 1960s Wingmaster than a 2015 Express. The action was very smooth, the barrel ring well attached, and the front sight was centered on the barrel. The finish was a well polished "black oxide" bluing. The vent rib barrel was marked for all 12-gauge shells from 2-3/4" to 3-1/2" with a note about the receiver needing to handle the 3-1/2" shell. The furniture was polymer and, quite frankly, not up to the level set by the metal. Another interesting tidbit is the serial number ended in "12" whereas older guns would have ended with "M", so it appears new production will allow one to determine the original gauge by the last digits of the serial number as opposed to knowing what "V" and "M" mean.

Lex Luthier
12-21-2021, 11:11 PM
Got to handle a new production 870 Express. I took it out of the box and put it together so it could go on the rack to be sold. The metal work and finish were as good as Remington ever produced, and the metal finish on this one was closer to a 1960s Wingmaster than a 2015 Express. The action was very smooth, the barrel ring well attached, and the front sight was centered on the barrel. The finish was a well polished "black oxide" bluing. The vent rib barrel was marked for all 12-gauge shells from 2-3/4" to 3-1/2" with a note about the receiver needing to handle the 3-1/2" shell. The furniture was polymer and, quite frankly, not up to the level set by the metal. Another interesting tidbit is the serial number ended in "12" whereas older guns would have ended with "M", so it appears new production will allow one to determine the original gauge by the last digits of the serial number as opposed to knowing what "V" and "M" mean.

May this be a sign of good times to come.

willie
12-22-2021, 02:43 AM
I've examined two of the new 870's and formed zero negative opinions but did observe use of polymer for attaching forend to action bars. The trigger group housing is polymer.

Used barrels with rifle sights are available.

gato naranja
12-22-2021, 08:01 AM
Another necro:

I've got a circa-2002 Express with both an 18" pedestal bead barrel, and a 28" vent rib. I'm kicking around the idea of adding some sights to the 18" tube. I want to retain the ability to use the 28" barrel as a loaner duck gun, so I'd like to avoid a receiver mounted ghost ring rear. The problem is, it's 2021 (well, almost 2022), and Remington's recent bankruptcy/restructuring has made lots of parts/guns/barrels unobtainable or hilariously expensive. Is there anyone that can add rifle sights to to my existing barrel? Or does the hive have any other recommendations?

For a home-brewed "DEA" type low-profile rifle sight barrel converted from a plain 18" front-bead barrel: in theory, it would be no big deal to take a garden variety 18" tube and have a gunsmith make a dovetailed base taking an XS express rear handgun sight (wide V notch with center line) and braze it to the rear of the barrel. The front could then get a low or reduced height ramp brazed on to take a dovetailed front blade or bead/dot. It would probably be pretty costly in the larger scheme of things.

I have seen 870 vent rib barrels cut down to somewhere between 18" to 21" - it is some odd length because of the rib pillar spacing - that were then dovetailed for front and rear handgun sights. Not as bad as it might sound, but it it'll also need some sort of choke work after the bobbing.

In the end, a used standard 18" police or trad slug RS barrel might be the cheapest route... and less of a headache..

Seven_Sicks_Two
12-22-2021, 12:48 PM
Thanks all - that certainly gives me something to chew on.

I guess I'll be reaching out to some smiths after the holidays to see what my options are. If it's going to be a huge hassle (it sounds like it might be), I might as well Form 1 it and turn it into a 14" while I'm at it.

gato naranja
12-24-2021, 07:57 AM
I guess I'll be reaching out to some smiths after the holidays to see what my options are. If it's going to be a huge hassle (it sounds like it might be), I might as well Form 1 it and turn it into a 14" while I'm at it.

Not a bad idea for a bespoke HD/SD shotgun. One of the advantages is that the typical +1 magazine extension from Wilson or Vang works out beautifully with the short barrels.

Sadly, I see that the current prices for used 870 barrels indicate that it is a shark's market right now; let's hope that barrels from the 870's new proprietors start showing up and restoring some equilibrium.