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Lon
09-18-2011, 02:53 PM
I was reading this thread about catching the live round when unloading by covering the ejection port over on FT&T:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1391
In the thread the OP talks about watching another shooter whose pistol's ejector detonated the live round he was ejecting and remembered I had video of this very same thing happening to me. I was shooting a state USPSA match down in KY a couple years ago and on the third stage I shot, my gun jammed after the 2nd round. Slide was locked up pretty bad. I could not clear it conventionally, so I grabbed the front part of the slide in front of the ejection port with my left hand and used my right to smack the backstrap to see if that would clear it. It did, but I got more than I bargained for. The unfired round came back at a funky angle and the ejector hit the primer, detonating said round. It blew the magazine outta the pistol and sent a piece of the jacket into my finger. After I cleared the pistol and holstered, we were able to find the casing on the ground at my feet. The primer had an ejector mark on it that matched the ejector on my pistol perfectly.

I cut the piece of jacket outta my finger and put a bandaid on it. Later that week, I had to do a little more surgery to get the rest of the jacket out. I'm not sure if it was caused by this or not, but I inspected my pistol (STI 2011 custom job from R&R racing) and found a crack on the top of the slide where the ejection port and breech face meet.

Freakishly, this same thing happened to a buddy of mine while he was unloading a 2011 style open gun. He wasnt so lucky. He got Care Flighted from the range cuz a piece of the jacket knicked his carotid (or jugular, cant remember for sure).

Anyway, here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxQpADkug0

Here's the pic of the casing:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/xpd54/P1010299.jpg

Tamara
09-18-2011, 04:42 PM
A personal pet peeve of mine that I've blogged about twice (here (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2011/04/speaking-of-gun-safety.html), and here (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2011/07/ka-pop.html)) and eventually turned into a column for Concealed Carry Magazine.

Aside from the chances of accidentally busting a cap with the ejector, or with some random corner of the ejection port should the hand on the slide slip, it encourages paying way too much attention to the round being ejected and not enough to the gun itself.

JFK
09-18-2011, 05:41 PM
A personal pet peeve of mine that I've blogged about twice (here (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2011/04/speaking-of-gun-safety.html), and here (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2011/07/ka-pop.html)) and eventually turned into a column for Concealed Carry Magazine.

Aside from the chances of accidentally busting a cap with the ejector, or with some random corner of the ejection port should the hand on the slide slip, it encourages paying way too much attention to the round being ejected and not enough to the gun itself.

This for sure...

Also good on you for good gun handling. This is why we have 4 safety rules. Although there was an AD (and truly an AD not a ND) you saved disaster by keeping the muzzle under control.

Maple Syrup Actual
09-18-2011, 07:39 PM
I don't generally do this, being young and flexible enough to pick things up off the ground without much drama.

But I don't get hot under the collar about people doing it AS LONG AS they're keeping the gun pointed away from me and things I would like to remain intact, which, I guess, makes it equivalent to most activities people might engage in with a gun.

But I do have a great Hackathorn quote which fits perfectly in this thread:

"Some people get bent out of shape about this because they think that the ejector is going to hit the primer and set your round off, but it won't do that unless you're using some piece of shit gameboy gun like an STI."

zRxz
09-18-2011, 07:46 PM
I don't generally do this, being young and flexible enough to pick things up off the ground without much drama.

But I don't get hot under the collar about people doing it AS LONG AS they're keeping the gun pointed away from me and things I would like to remain intact, which, I guess, makes it equivalent to most activities people might engage in with a gun.

But I do have a great Hackathorn quote which fits perfectly in this thread:

"Some people get bent out of shape about this because they think that the ejector is going to hit the primer and set your round off, but it won't do that unless you're using some piece of shit gameboy gun like an STI."

LOL. I saw this thread and thought that exactly. Nice one, dude.

Tamara
09-18-2011, 07:47 PM
But I do have a great Hackathorn quote which fits perfectly in this thread:

"Some people get bent out of shape about this because they think that the ejector is going to hit the primer and set your round off, but it won't do that unless you're using some piece of shit gameboy gun like an STI."
I've been in the next room when it happened with a dead-nuts stock Glock.

(And I don't get "hot under the collar" about it; as long as Mr. OhMyGodICan'tLetMyPreciousCartridgeTouchDirt is watching where his muzzle is pointing while he obsesses over his .29¢ Faberge egg, then it's his fingers over the ejection port, not mine. :D )

Slavex
09-18-2011, 08:01 PM
I catch the live round, but not by covering the port. I just roll the gun so the ejection port is up and muzzle is straight down range or even pointing down slightly and rack it. Round goes straight up and falls into my hand. If it doesn't I don't go chasing it, let it fall where it may. Muzzle control is number one, observing the ejection path is number 2. If the round ejects funny I then know to go inspect my extractor and ejector for damage ejection path is number 2. If the round ejects funny I then know to go inspect my extractor and ejector for damage.
path is number 2. If the round ejects funny I then know to go inspect my extractor and ejector for damage.

joshs
09-18-2011, 08:25 PM
I catch the live round, but not by covering the port. I just roll the gun so the ejection port is up and muzzle is straight down range or even pointing down slightly and rack it. Round goes straight up and falls into my hand. If it doesn't I don't go chasing it, let it fall where it may. Muzzle control is number one, observing the ejection path is number 2. If the round ejects funny I then know to go inspect my extractor and ejector for damage ejection path is number 2. If the round ejects funny I then know to go inspect my extractor and ejector for damage.
path is number 2. If the round ejects funny I then know to go inspect my extractor and ejector for damage.

I've seen this cause a round to detonate off the ejector as well. Any technique for ejecting a live round that gets the slide moving quickly can cause an unwanted detonation, if the round slips out from under the extractor and the primer hits something pointy. I now eject live rounds slowly with my hand on the rear cocking serrations.

Slavex
09-18-2011, 08:29 PM
I've seen it happen with a .40 Para once. But I'm none too worried my ejection port is facing away from me and the weak hand is no where near it on the rack. Given that I do have my hand closer to the ejection port when doing malf clearances, I would expect more trouble there if I'm young to have any.

fuse
09-19-2011, 07:21 AM
I rack with the weak hand at the rear of the slide, and catch it in the air. If the round hasn't detonated by the time it gets near my hand, it won't detonate.

I'll probably do this until something bad happens. Real talk.

virginiatactical
09-19-2011, 09:55 AM
I have seen the ejector detonate the round as a shooter was "catching" the round by covering his ejection port cover and letting it land in his hand. The round can bounce off someone's hand and bounce back and hit the pointy ejector. I just taught a class this weekend, and a couple students did this (no detonations, but just did the catching thing). I stopped the line and covered this issue immediately. I just asked that they let the round drop to the ground to avoid any accidents.

rsa-otc
09-19-2011, 10:04 AM
At this month's IDPA match I covered this as well. Many people are unaware of this disaster factor.

GooberTim
09-19-2011, 11:17 AM
An RO at the Griffin Ga Glock match this past spring instructed me on how to retract the round this way after I finished a string. He said "just be careful when you do it and not get your hand in front of the gun, OK buddy?" (jlweems, this was the same jack hole that gave you all that free advice). I replied "you mean you're gonna tell a guy you just met and have no idea of his experience or shooting ability how to do this?!!? Thanks, but no thanks pal."

theblacknight
10-06-2011, 02:12 PM
I don't do this because, just ejecting the thing is a lot faster at matches. If I just hurry up and clear the gun and holster, pasters,painters, and scores can get down range faster. You'll have plenty of time to find the round as all of that is happening.

wicked_police
10-17-2011, 08:16 AM
But I do have a great Hackathorn quote which fits perfectly in this thread:

"Some people get bent out of shape about this because they think that the ejector is going to hit the primer and set your round off, but it won't do that unless you're using some piece of shit gameboy gun like an STI."


I heard that quote last weekend. :)

I usually catch the round in my hand, but I have the gun rolled over, port down, and slowly open the slide. The round just drops into my hand. To me, it's the same as holstering the gun, it's not a race and I'm in no rush.

We did have someone from a federal agency up here, using the Px4, have a round go off. I think they had the port covered, and started slamming the slide back and forth like they were jerking off. And with the round bouncing back and forth. trapped under the hand, the primer hit the ejector and BOOM. No major damage to the hand though.

phidelta308
10-20-2011, 09:56 AM
I remember reading about clearing a pistol in a similar way in one of my father's shooting books from the 1950's. The emphasis was on economy of movement and not fiddling around with pistol/mag/slide/cleared round.

It advocated dropping the mag, holding the mag between pinky and ring finger of weak hand, rotating pistol inboard so ejection port was down and pulling the slide (forward of the ejection port) back with weak hand and letting round drop into your weak hand.

The description sounds more complicated than it is. I tend to clear this way, but I don't rush it, and wouldn't force it if I felt resistance. Also, I'm keeping the muzzle in a safe direction. However, I see the wisdom of keeping your hand away from the ejection port all together. I may have to rethink how I do things.

beltjones
10-24-2011, 09:20 PM
But I do have a great Hackathorn quote which fits perfectly in this thread:

"Some people get bent out of shape about this because they think that the ejector is going to hit the primer and set your round off, but it won't do that unless you're using some piece of shit gameboy gun like an STI."

Wow. That's about the dumbest quote of all time.

Dagga Boy
10-24-2011, 10:17 PM
I briefly bit off on this as well. I'm back to ejecting into my hand. In all the years I was running a training program with thousands upon thousands of rounds unloaded this way by my people, I have never seen an issue. What I did see in very short order after the "eject the round onto the ground" was having to herd range chickens for all the people bending over in front of other people in the process of unloading to recover their rounds........no matter how many times you "discussed it". It became a far great safety issue than the minimal risk when properly unloading a solid duty type weapon with high quality ammunition. This was also confirmed in a 1911 class geared towards L/E recently where other L/E instructors have had similar issues.

Tamara
10-25-2011, 05:30 AM
What I did see in very short order after the "eject the round onto the ground" was having to herd range chickens for all the people bending over in front of other people in the process of unloading to recover their rounds....

You let people pick up live rounds off the deck?

Dagga Boy
10-25-2011, 08:33 AM
You let people pick up live rounds off the deck?

Only thing cheaper than cops...is two of them. Especially, if its their ammo. Double if they are shooting premium duty ammo. It isn't just cops. The worst range chickens I have ever seen were at civilian matches. What tends to happen is they are picking up their rounds with magazines and other items.

Tamara
10-25-2011, 12:50 PM
Only thing cheaper than cops...is two of them. Especially, if its their ammo. Double if they are shooting premium duty ammo. It isn't just cops. The worst range chickens I have ever seen were at civilian matches. What tends to happen is they are picking up their rounds with magazines and other items.

Heh. Competition shooters are the cheapest bastards on the planet. My old boss told me to stock some stuff in to try and make money off the local sport shooters (biggest locally were USPSA/IDPA and Benchrest Rifle) and I pointed out that even if we had the merchandise marked "FREE!" it would only move during "25% Off!" sales. :D

I only asked because a majority of the few instructors I've trained under were adamant about not scooping up live rounds after they'd hit the deck, and I'm kind of curious how widespread that stricture is...

(True Story: Our "fault line" photocells were offline at the range once, and the only way I found out was by glancing at the monitor for the range cameras and noticing that the guy on lane 10, a regular customer and a Known Reloader, was on his belly, across the Danger Line up to his belt buckle, and scooping brass towards himself by the armful. And then he acted indignant when I hit the siren and went out on the range to tell him to cut it the hell out or I'd toss him out on his ear. :o )

rsa-otc
10-25-2011, 01:01 PM
Heh. Competition shooters are the cheapest bastards on the planet. My old boss told me to stock some stuff in to try and make money off the local sport shooters (biggest locally were USPSA/IDPA and Benchrest Rifle) and I pointed out that even if we had the merchandise marked "FREE!" it would only move during "25% Off!" sales. :D

I only asked because a majority of the few instructors I've trained under were adamant about not scooping up live rounds after they'd hit the deck, and I'm kind of curious how widespread that stricture is...

Back here it seems to vary by local. Some ranges/clubs don't want that loose loaded round rolling around under foot causing a tripping hazard. Empty cases will crush flat, live won't. Mainly this is on paved or concrete floor ranges.

When I run my training sessions I inform the students to leave them lay in the dirt/grass. We pick them up when cleaning up the brass. My big problem is that live ammo ends up in with the empty brass going to the recycler. Causes quite the commotion when a live round goes off when they melt down the brass. :p

Tamara
10-25-2011, 01:53 PM
My big problem is that live ammo ends up in with the empty brass going to the recycler. Causes quite the commotion when a live round goes off when they melt down the brass. :p

We had a (possibly unique) solution to that: Our brass recycler was also a large-caliber junkie and big-time reloader. When he was scouring through the brass with an eagle eye, on the lookout for .454 Casull, .480 Ruger, and .50AE cases to feed his own addiction, the occasional loaded deuce-deuce and 9mm tended to catch the eye more readily. ;)

Dagga Boy
10-25-2011, 02:35 PM
"Fault Line photo cells"............Wow, just WOW.

Live ammo on the ground caused massive issues with the reloaders because it got mixed in with the brass. One of the trade offs about having a large PD qualify on your range was that we left all of our brass.......which was a lot of once fired name brand ammunition. They were big on policing up live ammo.

rsa-otc
10-25-2011, 03:06 PM
"Fault Line photo cells"............Wow, just WOW.


Must be nice to work/shoot at one of them there fancy ranges.:D

jetfire
10-25-2011, 03:08 PM
Off the top of my head, I know that TJ, InSights, and Gunsite all said to leave live rounds in the dirt when they hit it. I can't remember if Todd said to do that or not, mostly because I was too busy freezing to death in the Seattle Sunshine (hint: Seattle sunshine is wet).

I just do the eject the round up in the air and catch it trick. It has the benefit of keeping my live round AND making me look like a showboating hotshot.

VolGrad
10-25-2011, 04:27 PM
The politically correct answer I usually use when people talk about covering the ejection port or catching live rounds in the air is this ....


Aside from the chances of accidentally busting a cap with the ejector, or with some random corner of the ejection port should the hand on the slide slip, it encourages paying way too much attention to the round being ejected and not enough to the gun itself.

The real reason I don't do it is I personally feels it makes the person doing it look like a douche. Sorry, that's just unnecessary showboating IMO.

Tamara
10-25-2011, 04:34 PM
"Fault Line photo cells"............Wow, just WOW.

In his defense, he and his buddy on 10 were the only people out there other than the couple on 2 who had packed up their stuff and were talking and hadn't busted a cap in fifteen minutes.

I burst through the range door:

"Jesus Christ, Fred! What the fuck are you DOING?!?!"

He popped up like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

"But, but... nobody was shooting and..."

"Do you realize... Look, when I send a range monkey out there with a mop and a bucket, they have to wear a respirator and a head-to-toe Tyvek bunny suit! There's shit out there that'll make you grow a second HEAD, and you were lyin' there, WALLERIN' in it! I'm gonna call your WIFE!"

This is the kind of stuff that gets into the rumor mill among your coworkers fast: "Tam cussed out a customer last night. It was cool!" :o


Off the top of my head, I know that TJ, InSights, and Gunsite all said to leave live rounds in the dirt when they hit it.

Awerbuck's big on that, too.

Tamara
10-25-2011, 04:40 PM
Must be nice to work/shoot at one of them there fancy ranges.:D

Seriously, I think a "dumbass alert klaxon" is a dang handy thing to have at an indoor commercial range. :o

rsa-otc
10-25-2011, 04:43 PM
Seriously, I think a "dumbass alert klaxon" is a dang handy thing to have at an indoor commercial range. :o

Can we get one that goes off when some dumb shit muzzles someone? Hell lets add that the muzzler gets Tazzed. ;)

jetfire
10-25-2011, 06:16 PM
Can we get one that goes off when some dumb shit muzzles someone? Hell lets add that the muzzler gets Tazzed. ;)

Pass. I don't want someone getting electricity run through their body when they're pointing a gun somewhere it shouldn't go. Muscle spasms and whatnot.

Back to the topic of unnecessarily showboating, there are dudes who eject a live round in the air and a totally unsafe way, because they'll track the round and try really hard to catch it. The trick is that if you're going to do the showboat ejection but you fuck it up, just let that sucker go.

rsa-otc
10-25-2011, 07:21 PM
Pass. I don't want someone getting electricity run through their body when they're pointing a gun somewhere it shouldn't go. Muscle spasms and whatnot.

Point taken


Back to the topic of unnecessarily showboating, there are dudes who eject a live round in the air and a totally unsafe way, because they'll track the round and try really hard to catch it. The trick is that if you're going to do the showboat ejection but you fuck it up, just let that sucker go.

Ya, you do have to be careful where you showboat. There are people in this world who aren't aware they have no business trying to emulate those of us who are competent. :cool:

Al T.
10-26-2011, 09:25 AM
do the eject the round up in the air and catch it trick

I did that in front of Tam about ten years back. Got my ass chewed too. Deserved it. :p

JAD
10-26-2011, 12:52 PM
The real reason I don't do it is I personally feels it makes the person doing it look like a douche.
^^This. Conspicuous douchery, made all the more douchey by its conspicuousness. Throw in a heel spin while you're at it, whyncha. But of course, to each his own.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkM-GS_xAvLT04ciWVvuPQ3AnPJQo-Wcns6jUHdbcfdDZcgBUdIA

JAD
10-26-2011, 05:17 PM
I'm an eject-the-round-into-the-air-and-catch-it person. I don't do it to be a douche (conspicuously or otherwise). It's a practice that developed for pragmatic reasons when doing lots of reload practice with snap caps.
I'm very much just teasing. Lots of cool people do this and the only reason people like me make fun of them is that we can't pull it off without winding up with the muzzle in our mouth. Jealousy is a harsh mistress.

ToddG
10-27-2011, 07:19 AM
I'm also a "catch it in the air" guy. I first saw Ernest Langdon do it in the late 90's and thought it was so cool that I went home and practiced it for hours. Now it's such an ingrained habit that I do it without thinking.

I was given an FTDR at the S&W Winter Championship one year for doing this. The Match Director claimed -- with a straight face -- that he had witnessed a round detonate in someone's hand after it flew up into the air and landed in his palm. In the MD's defense, we were warned at the beginning of the match that we'd get in trouble for doing it and I received a warning the first time I did it. But as I said, it's become such a completely subconscious thing for me, I earned my warning on the first or second stage of the match and then did it again just a couple of stages later.

The major issue with catching the round after it's arced through the air, of course, is that it doesn't always arc where you want it to. People have a natural tendency to chase after the round even if it means compromising safe muzzle direction. That's especially true for folks who spend a lot of time practicing somewhere that safely allows them to wave their gun around (e.g., by themselves on a large range or dry firing in the basement). When they're suddenly in a restricted 180-degree environment, sometimes they'll forget and the muzzle gets a little wild.

All else being equal, I'm a believer that the best way to clear a gun is to shoot all the bullets in it. :cool:

Tamara
10-27-2011, 08:06 AM
The Match Director claimed -- with a straight face -- that he had witnessed a round detonate in someone's hand after it flew up into the air and landed in his palm.

*blink* *blink*

Lemme guess, this was right after he'd driven his brother's turbo Trans Am 200 miles per hour on the way home from visiting his girlfriend in... Canada, yeah, that's it.

I think I've met this guy, or one of his countless cousins. His brother saw a guy killed in Iraq from the shockwave of a .50 BMG bullet that missed the dude by six inches but sucked the air right out of his lungs.

rsa-otc
10-27-2011, 08:22 AM
*blink* *blink*

Lemme guess, this was right after he'd driven his brother's turbo Trans Am 200 miles per hour on the way home from visiting his girlfriend in... Canada, yeah, that's it.

I think I've met this guy, or one of his countless cousins. His brother saw a guy killed in Iraq from the shockwave of a .50 BMG bullet that missed the dude by six inches but sucked the air right out of his lungs.

LOL toooooo Much!

ToddG
10-27-2011, 08:25 AM
Actually, he's a well respected guy and the father of a good friend. For whatever reason, he and I have had a couple of odd run ins. A couple years after the incident I outlined above, he DQ'd me from the S&W match when my SIG P229 w/Lasergrips wouldn't allow "the box" to close on the last stage of the match. The CSO let me shoot the stage so I'd have a score, but the MD DQ'd me. Immediately after the match, a friend grabbed the box and measured it, finding that the club's homemade box was too small in every single dimension. Nonetheless, even though I had a recorded score for the stage, the MD insisted that the DQ stand in place. I may have been a little ticked off by that.

Dagga Boy
10-27-2011, 09:12 AM
I don't catch the round in the air because.......I am so totally un-coordinated that I can guarantee I would look like more of a horses ass than usual. If I tried half the stuff that Todd does with total grace and finesse, I would have shot or injured myself or others on numerous occasions. A man has got to know his limitations.........and I do:cool:.

As far as rounds falling from the air.....The only injury requiring medical attention on a range I was running happened when one of my SWAT officers asked another one for another bag of ammo (we used to get reloaded ammo in 50 round bags). One officer threw the bag a pretty good distance to the other officer, and a round detonated in the bag when he caught it. It caused a big scare, a very minor injury, and great practice for our team medics to treat it like a major gunshot wound along with the code three run in the range evac vehicles to a trauma center:o.....uneccesary, but great practice. If a round go's off from being dropped in the palm of a hand..........you have far bigger problems with that ammo:rolleyes:.

JAD
10-27-2011, 09:40 AM
All else being equal, I'm a believer that the best way to clear a gun is to shoot all the bullets in it. :cool:
-- Shichyeah. I also have a distinct preference for environments where the last instruction is to top off and holster.

P30shtr
12-01-2011, 11:04 PM
So whos to say a round couldnt couldnt go off from hitting a rock or some other object on the deck? I suppose better on the ground than in your hand but... I dont see hows the odds of a detonation would lean more one way or another.

Seems theres no real right or wrong from all the different opinions about it here. I guess just do which ever method the RO or instructor prefers.

seabiscuit
12-01-2011, 11:52 PM
If a round goes off on a rock, it won't be near your hand. And since the gasses won't be contained by a chamber/barrel, the bullet won't really go anywhere.

Also there aren't sharp pointy things like ejectors on rocks. And the round isn't being pushed back against them by the slide.

Odin Bravo One
12-02-2011, 12:54 AM
And since the gasses won't be contained by a chamber/barrel, the bullet won't really go anywhere.


Oh it will go somewhere.

Without a chamber and barrel, we don't know which way it will be going, but it will be going there, and getting there in a hurry. I won't get drawn into a theoretical discussion of physics or the geometry of explosives on the internet, but there is a mechanical explosion still taking place. That it was not contained by the device designed to contain it does not make it any less dangerous.

JAD
12-02-2011, 12:58 AM
Oh it will go somewhere.

Without a chamber and barrel, we don't know which way it will be going, but it will be going there, and getting there in a hurry. I won't get drawn into a theoretical discussion of physics or the geometry of explosives on the internet, but there is a mechanical explosion still taking place. That it was not contained by the device designed to contain it does not make it any less dangerous.

You would think, right? I've only seen it with pistol rounds (two .45 ACP rounds, ten years apart) but it does happen, and it is /catastrophically/ disappointing. "Pop." Bullet goes about 2 inches, shower of unburnt powder in the gravel.

seabiscuit
12-02-2011, 12:58 AM
I stand corrected. I just figured the energy would be dispersed in flying brass and stuff, since that has less inertia and is more easily accelerated.

seabiscuit
12-02-2011, 01:04 AM
Here's a video (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/foghorn/video-what-happens-when-a-shotgun-fires-without-the-barrel/) of a shotgun round going off outside a chamber and barrel.

TheRoland
12-02-2011, 08:51 AM
The popular show Mythbusters cooked off .44Magnum and a .50BMG round in ovens and were unable to get them to penetrate significantly without a chamber-like constriction to contain conflagration. Video is here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc)

I'd be worried about the high-speed brass and energy released from momentary deflagration more than the bullet. I wouldn't want to be holding the primer and powder when they ignited, in particular.

I'd think constraining the case in any way, as might or might not happen in the previously discussed ejection-port scenario, would make the results less predictable, too. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EQNlg7240) what happens when the case is constrained on a .22lr (moron alert). Bullet caused "an abrasion" and did not penetrate.

peterb
12-02-2011, 09:13 AM
More on unchambered ammuniton "firing" -- in this case it's from fire, but the damage caused is probably similar. http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_212-Facts_About_Sporting_Ammunition_Fires.pdf

Spectre044
12-21-2011, 11:10 AM
The popular show Mythbusters cooked off .44Magnum and a .50BMG round in ovens and were unable to get them to penetrate significantly without a chamber-like constriction to contain conflagration. Video is here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc)

I'd be worried about the high-speed brass and energy released from momentary deflagration more than the bullet. I wouldn't want to be holding the primer and powder when they ignited, in particular.

I'd think constraining the case in any way, as might or might not happen in the previously discussed ejection-port scenario, would make the results less predictable, too. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EQNlg7240) what happens when the case is constrained on a .22lr (moron alert). Bullet caused "an abrasion" and did not penetrate.

All I can think is the guy in that second video is now telling all of his friends that he has been shot. I also giggled a little when he showed the "bandages" on his gut.

rsa-otc
12-21-2011, 11:54 AM
I personally have discussed this with someone who had first hand experience with the phenomenon. It happened with a Smith & Wesson Auto in 9MM. He took extensive damage to the hand inclusive of some significant nerve damage. Remember if you are coving the ejection port with your hand, it is in close proximity to a semi-contained/directed explosion. The blast effects have only two places to go, down the barrel or out the ejection port. Most damage will be caused by the brass shrapnel not the bullet which will be directed towards the barrel.

JHC
12-21-2011, 12:44 PM
You would think, right? I've only seen it with pistol rounds (two .45 ACP rounds, ten years apart) but it does happen, and it is /catastrophically/ disappointing. "Pop." Bullet goes about 2 inches, shower of unburnt powder in the gravel.

Some years back I accidentally cooked off a G27 magazine load of .40 rounds in a large campfire and they just popped. I didn't even recognize the sound as it wasn't that loud. Just a snap. I thought it was something funky with sap in green wood or something. It wasn't until the morning I spotted an empty case in the ashes and thought that pretty odd . . . digging around I found all the empty cases intact and all the slugs laying there intact. The G27 magazine didn't fare well. (The loaded mag has slipped from my jacket poceket while I was building the fire.

mongooseman
12-21-2011, 07:51 PM
The most improbable I've ever personally observed was a police officer ejecting a 40 caliber from his G22 onto the grass at a range prior to qualifications. It made a 'pop sound and he did a funky little dance. Probably could eject another million rounds into the same spot and it wouldn't happen again.