View Full Version : Week 130: Your Best Group
Mr_White
09-18-2015, 12:36 PM
Week 130: Your Best Group
Results may be posted until October 18th, 2015
Designed by: Gabe White
Range: 25 yards
Target: B8 repair center, can be downloaded here: https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=281&d=1322428748
Start Position: ready
Rounds Fired: 5 or more
This is going to be a very simple drill suitable for indoor ranges with holster restrictions.
Shoot your best 5-shot group at 25 yards. No time limit. No limit on number of attempts. Once you have shot the group, total the points, including Xs. Measure the group and note the largest measurement you can get (center to denter of the two bullet holes that are furthest from each other.)
Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:
Pistol and ammo used
Number of attempts
Total points, including Xs
Group size
Anything you noticed
Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.
olstyn
09-18-2015, 01:31 PM
Well, the result I got doing DotW 125 certainly points to a need for me to spend my next range session doing this one. Thanks for the "free" giveaway entries and incentive to practice what I need to practice.
My printer, on the other hand, is going to be mad at you when I run it out of black ink printing B8 centers. :P
Ty Mr. White. Doing the happy dance. :cool:
And since I needed a reason to go to the range...:)
OK! But whatever happened to "center to center" regarding measuring groups? (caliber agnostic)
Mr_White
09-18-2015, 02:01 PM
OK! But whatever happened to "center to center" regarding measuring groups? (caliber agnostic)
Shows how much interest I have in group shooting that I didn't remember that....
;)
Mr_White
09-18-2015, 02:03 PM
Too late for me to edit the original post, but let's go with that. Please measure group sizes center to center, instead of outside edge to outside edge.
Excuse Gabe, Glock shooters measure to the nearest inch.
Excuse Gabe, Glock shooters measure to the nearest inch.
Ha! Rounding down to the nearest whole number? LOL
Too late for me to edit the original post, but let's go with that. Please measure group sizes center to center, instead of outside edge to outside edge.
An easy way to get that reading is to measure from the outside edge of an outer shot to the inside edge of the furthest shot from it.
52Hubcap
09-18-2015, 09:25 PM
Or outside to outside minus bullet diameter.
Or inside to inside plus bullet diameter.
An easy way to get that reading is to measure from the outside edge of an outer shot to the inside edge of the furthest shot from it.
An easy way to get that reading is to measure from the outside edge of an outer shot to the inside edge of the furthest shot from it.
Shit! Duhhhh :o I've measured a bunch of center to center without figuring that out!
Week 130: Your Best Group
Pistol and ammo used
Number of attempts
Total points, including Xs
Group size
Anything you noticed
From small gun to big. Two scored attempts each gun, but thoroughly warmed up.
Gen 4 Glock 26 with 10-8 sights 44 pts with 1 X. group size 6 3/8" (both attempts had four in a tight 2 1/2" range with a flyer way out. Not called btw)
Gen 3 Glock 19 RTF2 with Trijicon HD orange sights 48 pts with 0 X. Group size 4"
Glock 31 with Trijicon HD orange sights 48 pts with 2 X. Group size 2 7/8"
Sams Custom 1911 with 10-8 gold beat front sights 48 pts 0 X. Group size 2 5/8"
olstyn
09-21-2015, 02:53 PM
Pistol used: Walther P99c AS 9mm
Ammo: 124 grain Montana Gold JHP over N320 handloads
I made a total of 10 attempts at this.
Best was 45-1X, 3.5 inches. Worst was, well, bad. They're all on the index card in the image of the best run:
http://s3.postimg.org/kyutkvann/45_1_X.jpg
As far as things I noticed go, I'm still having some difficulty with driving the dot @ 25 yards leading to improper vertical sight alignment. (I'm assuming that's what happened on the one I noted as "way high" where most of the shots were in the 7 and 8 zone right at the top edge of the paper.) I also notice that my best slow fire attempts at shooting groups seem to come when I very carefully control my breathing and press the trigger on the exhale. I'm not sure if that means anything in particular, but it's what I noticed. :)
9/22/15 at local range
HK VP9, stock, 147 gr minor reloads
First group of 10 shots, shot cold.
Group size: N/A (not all shots on paper)
Score: 55-0X, two handed unsupported.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/22/b072a954285f2d448578ad7760292e29.jpg
Note: I know the drill is 5 shots, but I 'always' do this drill w 10 rounds, once I started in 2013, so I wanted to keep it going for consistency.
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Mr_White
09-22-2015, 01:01 PM
Gen3 G34, CCI Blazer 115gr
One attempt
48 points, 0 Xs
3.25" group
Haven't been able to shoot recently since I'm out of town, but I did some group shooting before I left in mid-August.
Target used: IDPA
Gen4 G34, Freedom 115gr
Five attempts
1.875" group
Pistol & ammo: Custom 1911 .45, handloads 230 Zero with 3.6 Clays. I think this is a minor load.
This was probably about the 5th attempt, first with this gun/ammo combination. I probably made about 20 attempts total. I will record the rest in my journal.
Total points: 48 2x
Group size: 1.90".
Anything I noticed: custom pistols are accurate. :)
Other groups:
Old Gen 3 G-17 Fed factory 147: 47 1x 2.50".
New Gen 3 G-17 147 Bayou Titegroup: 45 0x 2.65". This group was at the bottom of the black because I floated the target on top of the sights and this pistol hits POA/POI.
New Gen 3 G-17 147 Fed factory: 48 2x. 2.75".
Gen 4 G-17 147 Fed factory: 46 1x 3.05".
old Gen 2 G-17 147 Bayou Titegroup: 48 0x 4.6".
These are the best groups I fired. I had several that were from 4 " to 5 or 6 inches. If they were bigger than I liked, I didn't measure them. Nothing was bigger than about 6 inches.
3919
Pistol & ammo: Custom 1911 .45, handloads 230 Zero with 3.6 Clays. I think this is a minor load.
This was probably about the 5th attempt, first with this gun/ammo combination. I probably made about 20 attempts total. I will record the rest in my journal.
Total points: 48 2x
Group size: 1.90".
Anything I noticed: custom pistols are accurate. :)
Other groups:
Old Gen 3 G-17 Fed factory 147: 47 1x 2.50".
New Gen 3 G-17 147 Bayou Titegroup: 45 0x 2.65". This group was at the bottom of the black because I floated the target on top of the sights and this pistol hits POA/POI.
New Gen 3 G-17 147 Fed factory: 48 2x. 2.75".
Gen 4 G-17 147 Fed factory: 46 1x 3.05".
old Gen 2 G-17 147 Bayou Titegroup: 48 0x 4.6".
These are the best groups I fired. I had several that were from 4 " to 5 or 6 inches. If they were bigger than I liked, I didn't measure them. Nothing was bigger than about 6 inches.
3919
Nice. Pretty mentally fatiguing isn't it?
Nice. Pretty mentally fatiguing isn't it?
Thanks. Shooting groups is hard work. :)
MD7305
09-24-2015, 09:29 AM
Glock 22 G4/ TLR1 w/ factory night sights.
Winchester Ranger FMJ 180gr.
Best Group: 32pts., 3-1/2"
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/24/6ad5b20b4f0e8de2406d7190768b1990.jpg
I struggle at 25yds, don't know if it's my eyes, my sights, or what but I struggle. I intended to shoot this drill 8 times and see if I improved or degraded. My first 2 attempts result in scores in the low 20s, on my third string I noticed that my eyes were kind of like an automatically focusing camera that can't decide what to focus on. My eyes would hard focus on the target then front sight, and back and forth. I then realized my fifth string that focusing on my front sight worked as I had a 44pts group with an X! I continued and shot another 44pts group on my seventh string. On my last string I shot the pictured group, circled holes. 32pts measuring 3-1/2". I had forgotten my tape measure so I used some paster tape, marked it and measured it when I got home. That one flyer off the paper is disappointing but the group was my best so I'll take it!
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olstyn
09-24-2015, 10:16 AM
I struggle at 25yds, don't know if it's my eyes, my sights, or what but I struggle. I intended to shoot this drill 8 times and see if I improved or degraded. My first 2 attempts result in scores in the low 20s, on my third string I noticed that my eyes were kind of like an automatically focusing camera that can't decide what to focus on. My eyes would hard focus on the target then front sight, and back and forth. I then realized my fifth string that focusing on my front sight worked as I had a 44pts group with an X! I continued and shot another 44pts group on my seventh string. On my last string I shot the pictured group, circled holes. 32pts measuring 3-1/2". I had forgotten my tape measure so I used some paster tape, marked it and measured it when I got home. That one flyer off the paper is disappointing but the group was my best so I'll take it!
Thank you for posting your results; I know these threads aren't really competitions, but it's still somewhat comforting to see that I'm not the only one who isn't laser-beam accurate at long range with a < 1 second draw, etc. Kind of a "I'm not the only one who isn't awesome all of the time, so maybe it is worthwhile to keep trying" type of thing. :)
I struggle at 25yds, don't know if it's my eyes, my sights, or what but I struggle. I intended to shoot this drill 8 times and see if I improved or degraded. My first 2 attempts result in scores in the low 20s, on my third string I noticed that my eyes were kind of like an automatically focusing camera that can't decide what to focus on. My eyes would hard focus on the target then front sight, and back and forth. I then realized my fifth string that focusing on my front sight worked as I had a 44pts group with an X! I continued and shot another 44pts group on my seventh string. On my last string I shot the pictured group, circled holes. 32pts measuring 3-1/2". I had forgotten my tape measure so I used some paster tape, marked it and measured it when I got home. That one flyer off the paper is disappointing but the group was my best so I'll take it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shooting groups at 25 yards has always been difficult for me. :(
I find it best to use a hard focus on the front sight. The target is usually some kind of blob way down there. :) I try to keep the front sight on the big blob and squeeeeze. If you noticed, I only told you about my good groups. ;)
Vision is a funny thing. My wife and I can't use the same sight settings on our pistols.
Have you tried shooting groups from close in then increase the distance? I can shoot tighter groups at 20 yards or 50 feet than I can at 25 yards. I think I can see everything better.
backtrail540
09-24-2015, 01:29 PM
Cz p09 #2 factory sights
47-0x. 3 3/8" third attempt
Federal bulk
MD7305
09-24-2015, 03:03 PM
Shooting groups at 25 yards has always been difficult for me. :(
I find it best to use a hard focus on the front sight. The target is usually some kind of blob way down there. :) I try to keep the front sight on the big blob and squeeeeze. If you noticed, I only told you about my good groups. ;)
Vision is a funny thing. My wife and I can't use the same sight settings on our pistols.
Have you tried shooting groups from close in then increase the distance? I can shoot tighter groups at 20 yards or 50 feet than I can at 25 yards. I think I can see everything better.
I periodically do walk backs with 3x5 cards and I'm usually pretty good until about 18-20yds, that's when my shots are more difficult, for me, to call. I know that's not really shooting for groups but if I could shoot a group that stayed in an index card at 25yards I wouldn't complain! I think it just takes time and practice. Admittedly, it's not something I enjoy so I have a tendency to avoid it, but you can't improve with that mindset, so I've learned.
45dotACP
09-24-2015, 06:47 PM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/24/35c9f387275b053b42fc9312bc477bd5.jpg
Gun used: Rock Island 1911
Ammo used: Aguila 230 gr FMJ.
Things noticed: My sights need drifting, I was holding on the edge of the paper. The Rock Island ran fairly well and was almost, but not quite as accurate as my Caspian.This target likely doesn't count, on account of it being a B16 target, but the best group I had today...some jackass was sighting his 460 s&w in next to me and I was having a hard time keeping focused, but this is about as good as I got.
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Clusterfrack
09-24-2015, 07:12 PM
Gun: Grayguns Sig P320 9mm
Ammo: SNS 125 gr coated; 4.0gr VV N320
2 Tries:
10 shots, 95 (2X), 4.5"
10 shots, 93 (3X), 8.5"
Notes: I like this gun. It's only my second week with it, and in every drill I am more accurate and faster with the 320 than with a G34.
42TNred
09-27-2015, 06:02 PM
Gun: Colt 1911 Government model
Ammo: 200 grain lead semi wad cutter reloads
50 points 3X
3.5" group
I realize that I shoot this gun better than my G19 at longer distances. Up close they are equally accurate, but farther away the 1911 just shoots better.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/27/7c98f2efb20c298824e6faba36f7c673.jpg
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M&P9
Mustang munitions 124gr
Ameriglo black suppressor height sights (in front of where the RMR should go, slide is milled but no dot yet :( )
6 shots ~5.5" used a zone of uspsa (didn't have a B8 handy)
First attempt, fired ~15 rounds at 10 yards before this.
I know this is far worse than most people on here, but I am proud of this sucker here. If I would have known it was gonna be this good I would have broke out a fresh target!
3940
Kinda hard to see, it's somehow rotated, and there are a couple 556 holes in there.
You just more or less held on a consistent place on the A zone? That's a great group for that sort of target index!
Yea tried my best to hold the same spot. I need a taller from sight. It's shooting high. HOPEFULLY I'll have a RMR this weekend and post back up some better stuff on B8's. Thank you for the kind words sir.
Range1
10-01-2015, 07:19 PM
Gen 3 Glock 34 with Warren Tactical rear and Trijicon HD front sights.
WW 124 NATO and American Eagle 147, 3 runs each.
AE 147: 37 x0, 7.27; 46 x1, 4.145; 44 x0, 5.556
WW 124: 46 x1, 3.544; 44 x0, 4.715; 44 0x, 5.012
Got in too much of a hurry and rushed the shots. Need try again when I can take more time. First time touching a pistol for 2 - 2 and a half weeks and could tell.
Matt O
10-04-2015, 05:10 PM
Beretta 92
Best Group: 50 (0X) - approx. 2.5"
Ammo: AE 124 gr
Had a pretty disappointing first 3 targets with stray shots in the 7 or 8 ring. Finished up with this 4th group which was better, but unfortunately apparently not representative of what I can do cold right now.
3963
1911
Best Group: 42 (1X) - didn't measure
Ammo: Win 230 gr
Forgot to take pictures of this target, but I just couldn't connect with the 1911 today.
What is thee best you've seen with that 92 and has it been tuned? Kudos on 2.5/50 in any case.
Matt O
10-04-2015, 07:53 PM
It's a 92 brig tac with no mods. I've never shot it from a rest or anything, but I've shot several 99's with it, with the flyers clearly being me.
Chris Rhines
10-04-2015, 08:54 PM
I shot this drill by accident this morning. It was the first five rounds of the practice session.
Custom 3-gun pistol built on an STI 2011 frame, 9x19, shooting my own handloads, 124grn. Montana Gold JHPs over 4.0 grains of Titegroup.
50-2X, ~2.75" center-to-center.
Needless to say, I stopped after one attempt. I've been practicing my distance shooting lately, but even so, that's a very good result for me. Especially after three cups of coffee...
And this is why I rarley participate in the 25 yard drills. Y'all are crazy talented.
I shot this drill by accident this morning. It was the first five rounds of the practice session.
Custom 3-gun pistol built on an STI 2011 frame, 9x19, shooting my own handloads, 124grn. Montana Gold JHPs over 4.0 grains of Titegroup.
50-2X, ~2.75" center-to-center.
Needless to say, I stopped after one attempt. I've been practicing my distance shooting lately, but even so, that's a very good result for me. Especially after three cups of coffee...
:D Blend some non-salt butter and coconut oil into one of those coffees and re-shoot. ;)
Chris Rhines
10-05-2015, 08:33 AM
:D Blend some non-salt butter and coconut oil into one of those coffees and re-shoot. ;)
I don't think that the uncontrollable vomiting would help my trigger control... :D
Up1911Fan
10-12-2015, 02:36 PM
Gen4 G17, 124 gr RN Freedom Munitions. 5 in the card, 5 out.
4034
bigslim
10-13-2015, 01:11 PM
Pistol and ammo used : G19 gen 4, Freedom Munitions 9mm 115gr
Number of attempts : 3
Total points, including Xs :
1) 2x8, 2x9, 1M = 34 points
2) 1x7, 1x8, 3x9 = 42 points
3) 1x8, 1x9, 3M = 17 pointa
Group size :
1) 4.8"
2) 5.2"
3) 3.1"
Anything you noticed : I don't shoot at distance very often and I was surprised at my results. I have also noticed that my eyes are started to do something weird in that my focus seems to be shifting between my right and left eye / front sight and target focus. On the B-8 it wasn't a huge deal but when I shot Retrieve and Load the head shot was impossible to hit for me this week.
Mike
Mickey
10-16-2015, 08:22 PM
Well this is my first drill in quite some time, lucky enough that I had been focusing on 25 yard accuracy.
I made three attempts with each pistol, except for the M&P 22 I only shot this drill once with that.
In order of best group first they are.
M&P 22 fullsize
Federal auto match ammo
Group 2.6" score 45 1X
Sig P320 fullsize 9mm
Federal HST 147 +P
Group 3.9 score 36 0X
Glock 19 Gen 4
Federal HST 147 +P
Group 5.7 score 43 1X
Observations:
While the HST was the most accurate in both the Glock and the Sig it shot way left in the P320.
But since the sig is going a game gun that is not to upsetting but I will have to investigate that a little bit more.
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