Interesting article on FireClean weapons oil

[LittleLebowski]

I like the stuff fine, myself. However, I'm trying out the Lucas gun oil (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IG20RM/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000IG20RM&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20) after positive reports on it from Ernest Langdon and the owner of a machine gun rental range in Las Vegas. Not to mention it costing roughly a third of FireClean.

FireClean (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0084J3CX6/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0084J3CX6&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20)

Article (http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/)

[HopetonBrown]

I like Andrew, the blogger. He's also an Iraq vet and seems to train with Mike Pannone often. His YouTube persona "Rick Taylor, world's greatest tactical trainer" is hilarious.

[guymontag]

Thanks for the link, LittleLebowski. I've always enjoyed reading Vuurwapen - it's been reasonable, no-nonsense resource in the actual use and testing of items. His "Performance Under Stress" was a great video too.

As for the Gun Lube Industry offerings, the Lucas Extreme Duty oil is pretty good. I purchased the large bottle when it debuted. It's tackier than other oils, inexpensive, and is somewhat similar to the Wilson Combat grease. For those of us in warmer climates however, I'll posit Slide Glide as the superior product... Lucas Extreme is still an oil and will run out and fling off of a competition or carry gun in my experience. One can't go wrong with MPRO, Weaponshield, FP10, hell, even SLIP.

I'll never know about FireClean, unless I manage to snag a free sample or free bottle.

[PPGMD]

Honestly this doesn't surprise me. Almost all of the newer non-toxic gun lubricants seem very similar in texture and color as cooking oils.

It would be interesting to test stuff like Rand CLP, Froglube, and all the other non-toxic oils.

guymontag,

Have you tried Lucas Extreme Duty Grease?

[RJ]

Interesting, I saw this article causing a small ripple in The Force tonight on another forum.

I read it and it sounded, you know, pretty convincing. But what do I know, a materials scientist I am not.

So the author of this blog, does he have a solid rep on the gunternet?

[LittleLebowski]

So the author of this blog, does he have a solid rep on the gunternet?

Extremely good rep. I encourage you to search for and read his articles on muzzle devices.

[RJ]

Extremely good rep. I encourage you to search for and read his articles on muzzle devices.

Copy. Will do.

I am about out of FC, and was actually out looking for options. Not to turn this into another gun cleaning product debate, but would M-Pro 7 LPX gun oil their 4 ounce spray bottle M-Pro gun cleaner also be good to go?

[ReverendMeat]

Interesting, I saw this article causing a small ripple in The Force tonight on another forum.

I read it and it sounded, you know, pretty convincing. But what do I know, a materials scientist I am not.

So the author of this blog, does he have a solid rep on the gunternet?

Yes. He tends to put out good information (though more often than not it seems being a dick on facebook is time consuming enough for him that it's getting in the way of posting actual content); particularly noteworthy are his brass vs. steel ammo test and his 5.56 vs .223 comparison, both done for luckygunner.

Incidentally, his post here is making me rethink the results of a couple 2k round challenges I've done.

[LittleLebowski]

Copy. Will do.

I am about out of FC, and was actually out looking for options. Not to turn this into another gun cleaning product debate, but would M-Pro 7 LPX gun oil their 4 ounce spray bottle M-Pro gun cleaner also be good to go?

Yes on the oil. On the gun cleaner, I always recommend non chlorinated brake cleaner used outside.

[PPGMD]

Copy. Will do.

I am about out of FC, and was actually out looking for options. Not to turn this into another gun cleaning product debate, but would M-Pro 7 LPX gun oil their 4 ounce spray bottle M-Pro gun cleaner also be good to go?

If you come out to WAC for one of the USPSA matches, I'll get you some samples of Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil.

[RJ]

If you come out to WAC for one of the USPSA matches, I'll get you some samples of Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil.

Thanks a bunch, I would really appreciate that. I'll probably start with a Friday night match for my first match (I was told they were a bit more laid back?) after the Next Steps 2 course I am taking with OFFS on 9/26.

Maybe I could shoot you a PM later in Oct? Hopefully it will be cooler; I was out yesterday at WAC, and it was 86 at 1000AM, geez.

[TCinVA]

So the author of this blog, does he have a solid rep on the gunternet?

Depends on who you talk to.

In this case, though, I don't think he's faking it. It's possible, but he'd have to be pretty daft to try and fake spectroscopy results. I suppose it's possible that someone will come along and argue that some other form of spectroscopy should have been used or something, but we'll see.

Frankly it's not really that surprising to me. There are a whole bunch of useful lubricants that have an agricultural base of some sort and work very well for their intended purpose. Hell, the machinery of the industrial revolution ran on whale oil and it took quite some time to come up with man-made lubricants that met or exceeded the performance of whale oil.

I'd imagine that FC uses some sort of agricultural base with some additives mixed in and I'd wager that the additives are what the manufacturer will claim is the secret sauce. Likely without useful information of the concentration of those additives. I'm not qualified to interpret spectroscopy results but as a layman looking at the readouts it doesn't look to me like there's enough difference to really make the stuff behave any differently than whatever base they are using. Certain bases may be very good at certain tasks. People say that FC does a good job of pulling off carbon, for instance, which may be explainable by the chemical properties of the base that make it suck at other things you'd want a gun lube to do.

I'm sure at some point someone will come along and shoot the messenger, but I don't think he's fibbing on this one.

The whole magic gun lube thing has annoyed me for a long time. The sizzle to steak ratio is way the hell out of whack.

I've been using whatever I could get free for a number of years now. I broke down and purchased some Wilson Ultima Lube for my pet CQB because why not? But I'm at the point of buying a can of Lubriplate and a couple of syringes and calling it a day.

I've used a bunch of different lubes over the years (freebies usually come in small sizes) and I haven't really noticed much of a difference in how they perform...but I've never really used them with an eye to compare X vs. Y in terms of how they perform.

[dookie1481]

So the author of this blog, does he have a solid rep on the gunternet?

He is one of a handful of people in this industry who challenge popular opinion and don't simply regurgitate what others say.

[Tamara]

So the author of this blog, does he have a solid rep on the gunternet?

I know him and have no reason to doubt his firearms testing stuff on the intertubes. I'd trust him over a bunch of bigger YouTube names with flashier chin spinach.

[Alpha Sierra]

Like TC, I use whatever I can get for cheap. Free is even better.

At this point in time, I can get Mobil DTE Light or DTE 24 machine oil for free. So that's what I use where I need oil. For pistol slide rails I use grease. I'm still on a small can of Shooter's Choice gold grease that I bought close to 20 years ago.

I honestly cannot tell the difference between motor oil/CLP/sewing machine oil (yep, I've used plenty of 3-in-1)/lathe oil/what have you.......I'm not paying $10 or more for a few ounces of magic lube no matter who makes it or endorses it.

[guymontag]

guymontag,

Have you tried Lucas Extreme Duty Grease?

I have not, but it looks interesting! I may have bought that as opposed to the oil had it been out at the time... however looking at the price it appears I would be able to snag around two ounces of SG for every one ounce of Lucas grease. Do you have any experience with it though?

[johncorey]

Saw his WARNO on this a week or so ago, maybe less. Fairly interesting bit. I've been using FC for some time now. I have had really solid results. Used in OEF, which he does not recommend, and it performed far above average, with very, very little moon dust accumulation. I pay around $10 for the 2oz bottle, and I'm still on the initial two I opened up. One for civvie use, one for mil use. No joke. The mil bottle is on its last legs. Both were opened around 18 months ago. When FC says drops will work for a large area, they do mean drops. I will stick with it.

[Tamara]

I have to say that I do not understand the amount of passion people get tied up in regarding pistol lubricants. People get their whole frickin' ego invested in whatever $3.95 bottle of slippy stuff they bought at the gun store to dribble on their pistol barrel, and that just makes no sense to me. I can kinda understand the lengths people will go to defend their $500 handgun purchase, but the oil thing leaves me baffled.

[JR1572]

I have to say that I do not understand the amount of passion people get tied up in regarding pistol lubricants. People get their whole frickin' ego invested in whatever $3.95 bottle of slippy stuff they bought at the gun store to dribble on their pistol barrel, and that just makes no sense to me. I can kinda understand the lengths people will go to defend their $500 handgun purchase, but the oil thing leaves me baffled.

Yeah, the whole lube thing has me baffled. I think I use CLP and my guns still work.

JR1572

[Chuck Haggard]

Yeah, the whole lube thing has me baffled. I think I use CLP and my guns still work.

JR1572

Back in the day before magical shit popped up on the market I used CLP to "fix" untold numbers of M16s and machine guns that weren't working because "oil attracts dirt/creates carbon".

[LittleLebowski]

I've tried FC and Slip2K in my suppressed .22 adventures which is some filthy shooting. Could not see the difference. Both wiped off. The guns ran in both cases.

For Rich; https://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

[RJ]

I've tried FC and Slip2K in my suppressed .22 adventures which is some filthy shooting. Could not see the difference. Both wiped off. The guns ran in both cases.

For Rich; https://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

Thanks.

I do know who that Pat Rogers guy is... :) :cool:

[mtnbkr]

I have to say that I do not understand the amount of passion people get tied up in regarding pistol lubricants. People get their whole frickin' ego invested in whatever $3.95 bottle of slippy stuff they bought at the gun store to dribble on their pistol barrel, and that just makes no sense to me. I can kinda understand the lengths people will go to defend their $500 handgun purchase, but the oil thing leaves me baffled.

It's no better in the bicycle world. People get really invested in the lube they use on their $30 chain. Ok, it also affects wear on the $100 cassette and $50 (each) chainrings, but even if you replace all 3 components, you're not out as much as a used pistol. On top of the lubricating properties, many are also concerned with how environmentally friendly the lube they sparingly apply to each link is, as if they're leaving a snail trail of the stuff behind them as they ride.

As for my guns, I use ATF for liquid lube and a 16yo tub of lightweight shock grease from back when I had suspension on my bikes. A little goes a long way. That grease is the slipperiest stuff I've come across. I only use it in my revolvers' lockwork though.

Chris

[LittleLebowski]

It's no better in the bicycle world. People get really invested in the lube they use on their $30 chain. Ok, it also affects wear on the $100 cassette and $50 (each) chainrings, but even if you replace all 3 components, you're not out as much as a used pistol. On top of the lubricating properties, many are also concerned with how environmentally friendly the lube they sparingly apply to each link is, as if they're leaving a snail trail of the stuff behind them as they ride.

As for my guns, I use ATF for liquid lube and a 16yo tub of lightweight shock grease from back when I had suspension on my bikes. A little goes a long way. That grease is the slipperiest stuff I've come across. I only use it in my revolvers' lockwork though.

Chris

My road bike has had Slip2K on it for years :D

[mtnbkr]

My road bike has had Slip2K on it for years :D

I bet that twists some noses in the right bike circles.

Does it give some folks the vapors? :)

I'm a longtime user of Boeshield T9. It doesn't wash off like some of the water-based wax lubes, but doesn't attract dirt like the wet lubes (that sounds vaguely kinky).

Life was simpler when Phil Wood Tenacious Oil was the only lube worth using...

Chris

[5pins]

Finally someone interjected science into the wonder lube of the year drama.

[GJM]

I have been using the Lucas ED oil for about six months. Why, because I saw Proctor recommending it, it was on his site when I was buying sights, and it was relatively inexpensive.

Seems to stay put, and work for my use. Haven't taken it to -30 or done any scientific testing.

[LittleLebowski]

I bet that twists some noses in the right bike circles.

Does it give some folks the vapors? :)


The only other person I ride with is on here so....nope :D

[RJ]

It's no better in the bicycle world....



Not to go too far off the topic, but oddly, I see the same thing in the RV world.

In the area of wastewater treatment, the number of different products available to drop into your black tank is truely mind boggling.

[Wondering Beard]

flashier chin spinach.

And that wins the internet as far as I'm concerned

[Alpha Sierra]

many are also concerned with how environmentally friendly the lube they sparingly apply to each link is

Just tell them you slosh the chain in used motor oil then put it back on the bike

[Beat Trash]

I have been using the Lucas ED oil for about six months. Why, because I saw Proctor recommending it, it was on his site when I was buying sights, and it was relatively inexpensive.

Seems to stay put, and work for my use. Haven't taken it to -30 or done any scientific testing.

I need something that says put on a bolt and BCG of an AR that is in a vertical mount. What's your thoughts on the Lucas ED as it relates to resisting gravity?

[guymontag]

I need something that says put on a bolt and BCG of an AR that is in a vertical mount. What's your thoughts on the Lucas ED as it relates to resisting gravity?

I'm not GJM, but I will say Lucas EDO resists gravity better than M-Pro, SLIP 2000 EWL, and Machine Gunner's Lube to name a few.

[Beat Trash]

Thanks for the info.

[orionz06]

If the testing is true then that would mean FIREClean isn't Paleo.

[JHC]

If the testing is true then that would mean FIREClean isn't Paleo.

No, not like whale oil.

[RJ]

If the testing is true then that would mean FIREClean isn't Paleo.

It would seem FC is more a combination of Vegetable Oils, from the patent application.

https://www.google.com/patents/CA2867869A1?cl=en&dq=CA+2867869+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAGoVChMIyqvwt5XhxgIV0gWSCh2sXg_p

I bought a bottle, and use it. I can't say I've had any problems with it.

Whether in future I would pay $10 an ounce for what appears to be essentially Canola oil, is open for debate.

[orionz06]

The convenience of a bottle that doesn't leak and a lube that works leads me to not care. I'd be pleased if people just stopped believing the hype and thought for themselves.

[Tamara]

If the testing is true then that would mean FIREClean isn't Paleo.

It is vegan, though, so there's that.

[PPGMD]

The convenience of a bottle that doesn't leak and a lube that works leads me to not care. I'd be pleased if people just stopped believing the hype and thought for themselves.

There are a ton of after market bottles that meet your criteria. The Lucas Needle Oilers work really well, and don't leak.


I need something that says put on a bolt and BCG of an AR that is in a vertical mount. What's your thoughts on the Lucas ED as it relates to resisting gravity?

I've found it better than all the oils I've tried (and I have a shelf full of gun oil), but it you are looking for real long term (like a year or more) staying power grease is the way to go.


I have not, but it looks interesting! I may have bought that as opposed to the oil had it been out at the time... however looking at the price it appears I would be able to snag around two ounces of SG for every one ounce of Lucas grease. Do you have any experience with it though?

Not yet, but it comes highly recommended by GGI. They were a SG shop.


Thanks a bunch, I would really appreciate that. I'll probably start with a Friday night match for my first match (I was told they were a bit more laid back?) after the Next Steps 2 course I am taking with OFFS on 9/26.

Maybe I could shoot you a PM later in Oct? Hopefully it will be cooler; I was out yesterday at WAC, and it was 86 at 1000AM, geez.

It is more laid back, but it is also in the late evening during the winter, and has no classifier.

Anyways give me a PM, I might not be at the October match (depends on when it is).

[BobLoblaw]

The wealthy tinkerer once recommended Wilson Combat grease for non-freezing temps on a certain syndicated radio show so that's what I use. And yes, the lid leaks and that shit is all over my range bag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PPGMD]

Is this (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shop-accessories-supplies/liquid-squeeze-bottles/applicator-prod71935.aspx) it?

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shop-accessories-supplies/liquid-squeeze-bottles/applicator-prod71935.aspx

ETA: Apparently it's cheaper when it comes filled with the Lucas Extreme Duty Oil:

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/oils-lubricants/lubricant-protectant-oils/extreme-duty-gun-oil-prod71172.aspx

Yes, they are very precise and haven't leaked for me.

The $13.99 is for 3, so it is slightly cheaper than buying the 1oz Extreme Duty Oil packages.

[RJ]

^^^

Here is a $5 option, free shipping w Prime too:

http://www.amazon.com/Gaunt-Industries-HYPO-25-Applicator-Weld/dp/B00EZRQOAY

[PPGMD]

I totally missed that it's a 3-pack. I should pick up a few dozen. :)

:D

Anyways there are now official replies by both LAV and FC on Facebook.

LAV's reply cliff notes "The person who did it is wrong. I've used the stuff and it works. If it doesn't work for you, then you are using it wrong. And if you disagree challenge me face to face so I can yell at you in person."

FC's reply cliff notes "Libel, slander, defamation. Look at all these groups that have used our stuff. We will not comment on our formula. Libel, slander, defamation."

[JDM]

:D

Anyways there are now official replies by both LAV and FC on Facebook.

LAV's reply cliff notes "The person who did it is wrong. I've used the stuff and it works. If it doesn't work for you, then you are using it wrong. And if you disagree challenge me face to face so I can yell at you in person."

FC's reply cliff notes "Libel, slander, defamation. Look at all these groups that have used our stuff. We will not comment on our formula. Libel, slander, defamation."

I feel like this is a warning.

Have we been warned?

[Slavex]

I was once told that the amount of money spent researching gun oils, by any of the companies making them, is very little, very very little. Unlike say, the motor oil industry that spends huge amounts on research and development of lubricants for vehicles.
All that said, I was given 3 litres of Militec1 and use it on everything from my pedal bikes to any of my guns. My only complaint is I keep losing the tip protector off the needle applicator and have almost stabbed my eye out a few dozen times whilst rummaging around my bench.

[johnson]

Not sure how you got those cliff notes from Larry. He said that it was laughable that Andrew didn't recommend FC for military use since results show otherwise when used in full auto and suppressed weapons. To be fair, Andrew didn't recommend it because FC doesn't protect against corrosion (or claim to), not because of the performance as a lube. Kevin B. also recommends FC from his experience as well. Check out the lubricant thread by Bill from last year.

As for FC's response...everything they said is true but it doesn't really clear anything up regarding the allegations about the formula but they shouldn't have to.

FIREClean™ Advanced Gun Oil is a specifically formulated, technically superior weapon reliability solution that resists the harshest firing with enormous heat and carbon overload that seize most weapons. It is a formulation- made specifically for exceptional reliability in firearms and weapons- not a re-labeled or re-packaged product.

I couldn't find any background on the Dave or Ed (chemistry degree, etc) but here's a short transcript on how they came up with FC which is kind of telling.

"...so we stumbled upon something...divinely inspired found something that was really really good at keeping carbon from sticking to metal. So we started with a series of experiments, started blending some different things together...low and behold came up with FIREClean."


http://youtu.be/S0OAsOCEJfQ?t=35s

[HopetonBrown]

I use these needle oilers (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shop-accessories-supplies/liquid-squeeze-bottles/needle-oiler-bottles-prod44434.aspx) from Brownells. They work well.


Is this (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shop-accessories-supplies/liquid-squeeze-bottles/applicator-prod71935.aspx) it?

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shop-accessories-supplies/liquid-squeeze-bottles/applicator-prod71935.aspx

ETA: Apparently it's cheaper when it comes filled with the Lucas Extreme Duty Oil:

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/oils-lubricants/lubricant-protectant-oils/extreme-duty-gun-oil-prod71172.aspx

[farscott]

The patent application strongly suggests that Fireclean is a mixture of vegetable oils, possibly with stabilizers. The patent application is US 2015/0017346 A1.

As such, it is more than Crisco. Looks like one could choose from a variety of vegetable oils to make a suitable cleaner for carbon fouling. These oils will have no corrosion-protection properties (and none are claimed). As such, I can see using vegetable oils as cleaners. Due to the acidic nature of these oils, I would not leave them on firearms for an extended period of time. Not to mention, these will oxidize and go rancid.

[Aray]

I keep asking myself why it is so important for the lube to be green/non-toxic/foodgrade/salad dressing?

The potential for harm is far greater from huffing vaporized heavy metals and combustion byproducts from shooting guns so far as I can tell. What am I missing?

[Matt O]

It just clicked with me that it was one of the fireclean brothers that attended the same Northern Red pistol class at EVTC with me and another forum member back in spring 2012. At the time I remember him grilling the instructors JD and Chris about the importance of lube and asking if that'd be a good invention as he was looking to get into the industry. I don't think he was quite excited with their answer at the time as I remember Chris responding that they'd lube guns with anything and had even used peanut butter.

[Alpha Sierra]

I feel like this is a warning.

Have we been warned?

Best stay in your lane or then the warning will come..... :cool:

[Alpha Sierra]

I keep asking myself why it is so important for the lube to be green/non-toxic/foodgrade/salad dressing?

Because hype

[TCinVA]

:D

Anyways there are now official replies by both LAV and FC on Facebook.

LAV's reply cliff notes "The person who did it is wrong. I've used the stuff and it works. If it doesn't work for you, then you are using it wrong. And if you disagree challenge me face to face so I can yell at you in person."

FC's reply cliff notes "Libel, slander, defamation. Look at all these groups that have used our stuff. We will not comment on our formula. Libel, slander, defamation."

Neither made me any more likely to go out and buy FC's product.

[orionz06]

Neither made me any more likely to go out and buy FC's product.

A little SOE marketing woulda done much better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TCinVA]

There's apparently an update:

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/where-theres-smoke-theres-liar/

Somebody is going to have to explain to me how the amount of "smoke" seen around the weapon is relevant to the accumulation of residue/soot/carbon/etc that sticks to the weapon.

[orionz06]

Interdasting.


Back to what someone else mentioned... If the focus is non-toxic why is the selling point the amount of shit pulled back towards the users face?


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[RJ]

This firestorm started when it was pointed out by a web blogger, that, based on a spectroscopic analysis, the most likely composition of Fireclean was vegetable oil. This individual's article did not make any statements about the product's effectiveness; just that it was likely a "modern unsaturated vegetable oil".

After the article appeared, the reaction from supporters was generally: "But, but, but, I don't care what it is, it works!"

As a user, I agree the product seems to work. I was just surprised at the level of vehemence against the blogger and the conclusion of the article. I believe the main reason for this is in cognitive dissonance .

Now, I'm no psychologist, but you are reading this on the internet, so it must be true. :cool:

Cognitive Dissonance refers to how humans handle the discomfort of holding a belief, only to be confronted by a new fact.

In the case of Fireclean, supporters paid $10 per ounce, for a product that is a "patent pending extreme performance gun oil", "designed for use in firearms" because it is "specially formulated". This product, by unbiased accounts, works well for it's intended application, with a couple caveats (offers no corrosion protection, may oxidize over time and gum up.)

After using the product successfully, supporters are now told that, well, actually, they did not buy a miracle product, designed by hard working, calculator-wielding materials scientists, working deep in an industrial complex for years.

It's, you know, Crisco.

This is dissonant with their self-image of a shrewd, highly discriminating gun hipster:

This stuff works. So it must be worth it, since they web site says so. Meaning I am still a shrewd, highly discriminating gun hipster, right? Phew.


Anyways, I have some FC left, but am unlikely buy any more.

There are two aspects of FC that I do not like: One is that it lacks any kind of corrosion protection. Second is the apparent possibility to gum up (LAV mentions this in his response to the detractors, which I found interesting) in long term storage.

And partly because I fell for the hype. I paid my $10 an ounce for the secret sauce, but in reality, I have vegetable oil sitting in the cupboard already I could be using. It irritates me to give more money to a company that markets a product like that.

I started in 2013 with Froglube, gave up on that, and moved onto FC this year. Since there are so many other options out there for gun lubrication, and my experience level is low, I will move on to another product.

I'll probably fall for the hype again, though. :)

[TCinVA]

I'll probably fall for the hype again, though. :)

I need to invent a lube. :cool:

[LittleLebowski]

I have no issue with FireClean other than the below:

The cost
The silly "metal has pores" bit
The cost

I've used FireClean in some hard use weapons in which I would know if the lube was something different/special. These were my 5.45 AR using corrosive surplus ammo and also my suppressed .22s. It didn't do anything better or different than Slip2000.

[JHC]

Neither made me any more likely to go out and buy FC's product.

But Tier 1 black ops!!!

I've never seen the stuff and it sounds like it works well on frequently used guns. The caking up in storage sounds nasty though (LAV noted on his FB he saw that himself on a 1911 but he concluded it was probably due to not applying is just so.)

[jondoe297]

I have no issue with FireClean other than the below:

The cost
The silly "metal has pores" bit
The cost

I've used FireClean in some hard use weapons in which I would know if the lube was something different/special. These were my 5.45 AR using corrosive surplus ammo and also my suppressed .22s. It didn't do anything better or different than Slip2000.

That's pretty much how it is with me. I've got oodles of both on hand that I got for free. My wife manages a big tactical store and is always getting samples. I've found that FC and Slip2K are pretty much interchangeable.

[TCinVA]

A lube that will gum up if I don't apply it "just so" is not something I'm interested in, either.

[orionz06]

A lube that will gum up if I don't apply it "just so" is not something I'm interested in, either.

If it gums up is it a lube?


I know when I slide with the Viking it's all action.


The funny part is the dudebro crowd is all about saying motor oil gums up in cold weather and Fireclean is one of their preferred lubes.

[Jay Cunningham]

I need to invent a lube. :cool:

I know a guy.

[Alpha Sierra]

The funny part is the dudebro crowd is all about saying motor oil gums up in cold weather
Amazing how my car starts in the PM when I leave work and it's been sitting in the parking lot exposed to single digit weather and 20 mph winds all day long.

You'd think I need a crowbar to turn over the engine with all that molasses in it......

[Alpha Sierra]

Since there are so many other options out there for gun lubrication, and my experience level is low, I will move on to another product.

$3.98 at Lowes

http://www.3inone.com/files/images/ptfe-lube1.jpg

[Chuck Whitlock]

When I became disenchanted with Froglube (one of the reasons I gravitated to it was the non-toxic aspect.....for our non-gunny officers with small children), I switched over to Slip 2000....which has been lauded for quite some time by the likes of both Greg Sullivan and Pat Rogers. After reading up on "Filthy 14", I really don't care if something else better comes down the pike. Slip will be "good enough" for me, and I can get it from Amazon.

[LittleLebowski]

When I became disenchanted with Froglube (one of the reasons I gravitated to it was the non-toxic aspect.....for our non-gunny officers with small children), I switched over to Slip 2000....which has been lauded for quite some time by the likes of both Greg Sullivan and Pat Rogers. After reading up on "Filthy 14", I really don't care if something else better comes down the pike. Slip will be "good enough" for me, and I can get it from Amazon.

Not to mention Slip2k being non toxic as well.

[PPGMD]

I think it goes without saying that many gun nuts have an entire shelf of oils.

On hand I have the following
Rand CLP
Breakfree CLP (an entire gallon)
Slip 2000 EWL
Lucas Oil Extreme Duty Gun Oil
Lucas Gun Oil
MPro 7 Gun Oil (whatever it is called)
Militec 1 Grease
Militec 1
Some white lithium grease I picked up years ago
TW 25B

And I've tried samples of virtually every major lube on the market, including Fireclean.

All lubes work, it you apply enough of it often enough.

I've found that the major differences between lubes are
1. How quickly it burns off
2. How quickly it migrates
3. How quickly it gums up
4. How well it protects against corrosion

I believe for most of us here our a gun that gets shot/carried fairly often 1, 2, and to a lesser extant 3 are most important. I don't believe 4 is important because having a natural material or coating that protects against corrosion is best.

Now the problem is that few gun lubricant companies publish the data on their lube. If I were to guess, it is because most are just repackaged from an non-gun lube with a different dye. And if we had the data we could compare them, and realize that.

[JHC]

Not to mention Slip2k being non toxic as well.

Yeah that info from the earlier lube thread got through my thick skull and I ordered a multi-year supply off of Amazon. I can't say the guns run any better than what it replaced (Mobil 1) but I sure sense that the lubed guns put up for extended periods hold the Slip2K longer.

[RJ]

There's apparently an update:

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/where-theres-smoke-theres-liar/

Somebody is going to have to explain to me how the amount of "smoke" seen around the weapon is relevant to the accumulation of residue/soot/carbon/etc that sticks to the weapon.

Just read this.

Woah.

This will set a cat amongst the pigeons, as my mom used to say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chuck Haggard]

I keep hearing that motor oil is toxic. My understanding of the issues involved is that motor oil becomes toxic after it has been run through a motor for a few thousands miles picking up lots of combustion crap.

At any rate, Brownell's needle oilers and a quart of Mobil1 go a very, very long way and cost a fraction of what any of the wonder lubes cost.

[RJ]

In the interests of, you know, choices, I did a quick survey this morning.

I think everything mention in this thread is here. :cool:

Sorted by price / oz.:

Slide Glide Lite, tube, 0.25 oz. $26.00 / oz

Fireclean 2 oz. $9.97 / oz

Rand CLP Nano 2 oz. bottle $6.57 / oz

Wilson Ultima Lube Universal 2 oz. bottle $5.97 / oz

Militec-1 4oz Lubricant $5.73 / oz

M-Pro Gun oil LPX 2 oz. bottle $4.99 / oz

Froglube 4 oz. bottle $3.93 / oz

Slip EWL 4 oz. $3.24 / oz

Breakfree CLP 4 oz. $2.82 / oz

Lucas Oil 10006 Gun Oil 2 oz. $2.57 / oz

Boeshield T-9 Waterproof Lubrication 4 oz. $2.50 / oz

Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil 16 oz. $1.87 / oz. (Brownell's, plus shipping)

Hoppe's No. 9 Lubricating oil, 2 1/4 oz. $1.55 / oz

3 in One PTFE Lubricant, 4 oz, Lowe's $0.99 / oz

WD-40 Multi-use Spray 16 oz. $0.87 / oz

Mineral Oil USP Vi-Jon 16 oz. $0.51 / oz

Mobil 1 10w-40 32 oz. $0.50 / oz

Canola oil, Crisco pure, 48 oz. $0.06 / oz

Notes

- Prices from Amazon and include shipping, except where noted
- Generally, the smallest quantity available was selected

[RoyGBiv]

Ordered some Slip2K EWL from Amazon the other day. Figured it was time to upgrade from RemOil and Rotella T6 :p
4oz. might be enough for a decade or so, so $14 (delivered including tax) was not too painful. Fireclean price is just crazy.

[HCM]

The first "non-toxic " gun lube I used was Gunzilla. My old organization started using it about the same time as the push for "lead free" ranges. Unlike the crappy lead free ammo which destroys guns, the Gunzilla has worked very well. The Gunzilla people were very upfront about their product bring based on vegetable oil.

I've been using Slip 2000 since 2007. I think I got some via a Pat Rogers Carbine class. It works well.

Was it SLIP 2k or Snake oil that was originally an oil for dental drills?

[eyemahm]

In the interests of, you know, choices, I did a quick survey this morning.

I think everything mention in this thread is here. :cool:

Sorted by price / oz.:

Wilson Ultima Lube Universal 2 oz. bottle $5.97 / oz


Comprehensive list.

I'm generally allergic to spending more than $4/oz on lube, but the 4 oz version of the Wilson Universal Lube came in at $11 ($2.75/oz) at Midway so I figured why not. I'm skeptical of most people who build a business around selling gun oil exclusively (common sense suggests we have different goals), but it was a little easier to take Wilson products seriously since the formulator (if not the producer) is a) a member here at PF and b) has a far greater monetary interest in his high dollar guns working and not corroding than in selling a few bottles of lube.

So far I've been pleased with both the packaging and the lube. The bottle has a plastic cone tip that you can cut to your desired nozzle size, hasn't leaked yet, and has a cap that works. I was using the lightweight (Oil) version for several months and have been pleased with it, though I recently decided to go up to the heavier weight product (Universal) since the Oil migrates more than I'd like on my carry gun (which stays nice and warm all day). Given it's intended for 1911s, I'd expect the product to provide some metal protection, but I haven't been using it for long enough to opine on that or whether it has a tendency to get gummy if left in storage.

[Tamara]

LAV's reply cliff notes "The person who did it is wrong. I've used the stuff and it works. If it doesn't work for you..."

If Larry had bothered to read the piece that got him all worked into a blustery lather, he'd notice that Andrew specifically stated he had no issues with the stuff working. It worked fine for him when he did that brass-vs-steel thing, after all.

[f308gt4]

Has anyone ever had a lube related failure on a properly lubed/maintained gun?

I've never had an issue, except with froglube that gunked up on several of my firearms. I've used CLP, Mobile 1, Mpro 7, Inox, Tri-flow oils in the past without issue. Granted, I don't shoot as often or for as long as many on here, but I suspect that there are few failures out there that can be attributed to the oil- as long as your firearm is properly lubed, it just doesn't matter what you use.

[Kyle Reese]

Has anyone ever had a lube related failure on a properly lubed/maintained gun?

I've never had an issue, except with froglube that gunked up on several of my firearms. I've used CLP, Mobile 1, Mpro 7, Inox, Tri-flow oils in the past without issue. Granted, I don't shoot as often or for as long as many on here, but I suspect that there are few failures out there that can be attributed to the oil- as long as your firearm is properly lubed, it just doesn't matter what you use.

I've seen Rem-Oil aerosol stuff burn off very fast in a Tiger Swan pistol class- so much so that the students using it switched to Slip 2000 EWL.

[Matt O]

If Larry had bothered to read the piece that got him all worked into a blustery lather, he'd notice that Andrew specifically stated he had no issues with the stuff working. It worked fine for him when he did that brass-vs-steel thing, after all.

Few people can match the speed with which Larry accelerates from zero to warnings and I think reading comprehension gets left back at the starting line.

[LittleLebowski]

Has anyone ever had a lube related failure on a properly lubed/maintained gun?

I've never had an issue, except with froglube that gunked up on several of my firearms. I've used CLP, Mobile 1, Mpro 7, Inox, Tri-flow oils in the past without issue. Granted, I don't shoot as often or for as long as many on here, but I suspect that there are few failures out there that can be attributed to the oil- as long as your firearm is properly lubed, it just doesn't matter what you use.

I have not seen a lube yet that can inhibit the rust that results from using corrosive surplus ammo in my 5.45 AR (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2013/01/my-definitive-545x39mm-ar15-article.html). It happens within hours if not rinsed with hot water.

[johnson]

Has anyone ever had a lube related failure on a properly lubed/maintained gun?

I've never had an issue, except with froglube that gunked up on several of my firearms. I've used CLP, Mobile 1, Mpro 7, Inox, Tri-flow oils in the past without issue. Granted, I don't shoot as often or for as long as many on here, but I suspect that there are few failures out there that can be attributed to the oil- as long as your firearm is properly lubed, it just doesn't matter what you use.
I haven't but I'll go along with Kevin and say that you won't really see how well a lube works until you use it with suppressed guns like .22s and SBRs. Check out his pics on post #50 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11308-Lubricants&p=199962&viewfull=1#post199962) of the BCG after 3,500 rounds suppressed.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11308-Lubricants


I've seen some epic lube fails.

TW-25B burnt to parts - caked as hard a a rock
FrogLube got sandy and turned a pistol to a brick
Militec - gun rusted shut

Several more issues.

Also a lot of lubes will burn to a varnish like consistency which adds a gummy layer of crap that gets everywhere.

[LittleLebowski]

I haven't but I'll go along with Kevin and say that you won't really see how well a lube works until you use it with suppressed guns like .22s and SBRs.

Agreed.

[JTQ]

I have not seen a lube yet that can inhibit the rust that results from using corrosive surplus ammo in my 5.45 AR (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2013/01/my-definitive-545x39mm-ar15-article.html). It happens within hours if not rinsed with hot water.
Have you tried Ballistol? It's probably not enough of a lube for high round count AR shooting, but it would probably neutralize the corrosive ammo with a post shoot spray down. Of course, you'd have to drive home with a gun freshly sprayed with Ballistol. It is a pretty smelly product.

[LittleLebowski]

Have you tried Ballistol? It's probably not enough of a lube for high round count AR shooting, but it would probably neutralize the corrosive ammo with a post shoot spray down. Of course, you'd have to drive home with a gun freshly sprayed with Ballistol. It is a pretty smelly product.

Yes. I'd rather use a quality lube and a water rinse.

[ReverendMeat]

Has anyone ever had a lube related failure on a properly lubed/maintained gun?

I've never had an issue, except with froglube that gunked up on several of my firearms. I've used CLP, Mobile 1, Mpro 7, Inox, Tri-flow oils in the past without issue. Granted, I don't shoot as often or for as long as many on here, but I suspect that there are few failures out there that can be attributed to the oil- as long as your firearm is properly lubed, it just doesn't matter what you use.

I wouldn't call it "properly lubed/maintained" and I won't hold it against the product, but I did a couple 2,000 round challenges using Fireclean and eventually those pistols all started feeling sticky/gummy when cycling the action, leading to failures to go into battery and failures to eject. At the time I just figured "well, that's what happens when you go a couple months without lube and cleaning on guns with metal frames and long rails" but I just realized that on similar pistols where I used Breakfree that didn't happen.

[Aray]

I keep hearing that motor oil is toxic. My understanding of the issues involved is that motor oil becomes toxic after it has been run through a motor for a few thousands miles picking up lots of combustion crap.

At any rate, Brownell's needle oilers and a quart of Mobil1 go a very, very long way and cost a fraction of what any of the wonder lubes cost.

I can't argue Chuck, some can, but not accurately.

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=3011003


Warnings: Continuous contact with used motor oil has caused skin cancer in laboratory animal tests. Avoid prolonged contact. Wash skin with soap and water. Launder or discard soiled clothing.
Acute Health Effects:
From MSDS:
Inhalation: Harmful concentrations of mists/vapors are unlikely through customary handling or use of this product.
Eye Contact: Not expected to cause prolonged or significant eye irritation.
Skin Contact: Not expected to cause prolonged or significant skin irritation.
Ingestion: Low order of toxicity, but may cause gastrointestinal disturbances, diarrhea. Ingestion of large amounts may cause headache, drowsiness, nausea, vomiting or diarrhea.
Medical Conditions Generally Aggravated by Exposure: Pre-existing skin disorders.
Chronic Health Effects: From MSDS;Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause skin drying, cracking, irritation, defatting and dermatitis. Warning! Avoid skin contact with used motor oils. Used motor oils have caused skin cancer in laboratory animals when repeatedly applied and left in place between applications.
Carcinogenicity: The product contains petroleum base oils which may be refined by various processes, including severe solvent extraction, severe hydrocracking, or severe hydrotreating. None of the oils require a cancer warning under the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200). These oils have not been listed in the National Toxicology Program (NTP Annual Report nor have they been classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1), probably carcinogenic to humans (Group 2A) or possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B).
Health Rating: 1
Flammability Rating: 1
Reactivity Rating: 0
HMIS Rating Scale: 0 = Minimal; 1 = Slight; 2 = Moderate; 3 = Serious; 4 = Severe;
N = No information provided by manufacturer; * = Chronic Health Hazard
MSDS Date: 2000-08-21

[RJ]

Added a few I missed, plus a few more from the wealthy tinkerer's thread:

** fixed Lucas ED Oil to be a 4 oz. bottle, like most of the rest which are 2 oz. -- 4 oz. bottles.


Slide Glide Lite, tube, 0.25 oz. $26.00 / oz

Fireclean 2 oz. $9.97 / oz

Slipstream Weapon Lubricant 2 oz. (est) $7.50 / oz.

Rand CLP Nano 2 oz. bottle $6.57 / oz

Wilson Ultima Lube Universal 2 oz. bottle $5.97 / oz

Militec-1 4oz Lubricant $5.73 / oz

M-Pro Gun oil LPX 2 oz. bottle $4.99 / oz

Inox MX3 100 g (3.5 oz) small $4.28 / oz

Froglube 4 oz. bottle $3.93 / oz

Weapon Shield WS-4 4 oz. bottle $3.73 / oz

Slip EWL 4 oz. $3.24 / oz

Gunzilla 4oz twist top $2.99 / oz

Royal Purple 02514 Synfilm High Performance Synthetic Air Compressor Lubricant 2 oz. $2.87 / oz.

Breakfree CLP 4 oz. $2.82 / oz

Lucas Oil 10006 Gun Oil 2 oz. $2.57 / oz

Boeshield T-9 Waterproof Lubrication 4 oz. $2.50 / oz

Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil 4 oz. $2.50 / oz. (Brownell's, plus shipping)

Ballistol Multi-Purpose Oil Aerosol 6 oz. $1.96 / oz

Hoppe's No. 9 Lubricating oil, 2 1/4 oz. $1.55 / oz

Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant Drip-Bottle, 6 oz. $1.50 / oz

Rem oil Gun Lubricant Aerosol Can 10 oz. $1.16 / oz

3 in One PTFE Lubricant, 4 oz, Lowe's $0.99 / oz

WD-40 Multi-use Spray 16 oz. $0.87 / oz

Mineral Oil USP Vi-Jon 16 oz. $0.51 / oz

Mobil 1 10w-40 32 oz. $0.50 / oz

Home Depot Husky Air Compressor Oil, 16 oz bottle $0.16 / oz

Canola oil, Crisco pure, 48 oz. $0.06 / oz

Distilled Water, Deer Park, 6 x 1 gallon $0.03 / oz

[Aray]

All I want it a lube (or some other voodoo) that I can "treat" the 6061 T6 aluminum monocore of an integrally suppressed 10/22 with that allows for easy clean up. Is that too much to ask?

Maybe I just need to have some SS or titanium baffles made for it.

It might be too much to ask. If you would ever come out this way, we would find out.

[Jay Cunningham]

Organic coconut oil.

[Jay Cunningham]

Paleo approved.

Which one will you know about first? If a guy is a SEAL, does crossfit, or uses paleo friendly coconut oil on his 1911?

[texasaggie2005]

Which one will you know about first? If a guy is a SEAL, does crossfit, or uses paleo friendly coconut oil on his 1911?

Whether or not he's from Texas.

[LittleLebowski]

Whether or not he's from Texas.

Correct.

[Alpha Sierra]

Organic coconut oil.

Make sure it's Fair Trade

[EVP]

A lube that will gum up if I don't apply it "just so" is not something I'm interested in, either.

I also read that if using to much it can gum up. Also that if you are using fireclean they do recommend against using another lube.

Didn't fireclean have a label on the bottle that said like 1 year shelf life?


Either way I have not really noticed a difference in lubes.

[pangloss]

There's apparently an update:

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/where-theres-smoke-theres-liar/



I think the freeze frames from the video will be more troublesome for FC/LAV than any of the spectroscopy data. The two explanations are for something like this are 1. intentional or 2. accidental. Neither reflects well on the people behind the video.

[texasaggie2005]

Apologies if already posted, but I think Andrew's 2 year old parody is still relevant, and brings some levity to the subject.



http://youtu.be/9tj7ytiqxx8

[LittleLebowski]

I'm liking the Lucas stuff. I'll update my Training Journal on my experiences with it after my BigSuperAwesomeSuppressorShootingOuting with a certain NFA dealer on here.....

[johnson]

A quote from Battlefield Las Vegas regarding lubes in a high round count rental range environment. I've only bought a couple bottles of lube in the past 5 years but will probably try Lucas next. I'm currently just borrowing SLiP2000 EWL from friends after they bought BCM uppers.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/



We’ve had many companies send us samples and we’ve had sales rep’s show up telling us how much better their products is than others. We even had a sales rep actually eat some of his product to demonstrate its safety to us (if my armorers couldn’t tell the difference between lube and gum/dip and accidentally ate some, I don’t think they would be working for me). Some require a whole protocol in order to use it properly and after following the protocol, there was no notable difference that WE noticed as I am not saying their claims weren’t true.

All of the lubes we have ever used worked as long as we continued to lube the weapons. Some lubes lasted longer than others but again… they ALL worked as advertised. My biggest concern is making sure it’s safe for my employees and there are no issues with EPA, OSHA and disposal of the rags with the residue. Slip2000 fit our business model perfectly.

Up until about three weeks ago, the main lube we were using was Slip 2000 and the grease was also made by Slip2000. We had a rep at a local country festival give one of my managers a case of Lucas Gun Oil. The armorers asked if we could use it and I told them to get the MSDS’s for it and make sure the service company didn’t have an issue with cleaning the rags with it. They didn’t and we tried it out. My RSO’s immediately noticed that it wasn’t spraying any “mist” after being lubed. That is huge for use because so many people come dressed really nice (on their way to a dinner or show after) and they could actually put more lube in the gun and keep the weapons “wet” longer. Slip2000 did the least amount of “misting” after lube but the Lucas does even better. My RSO’s like it because there is less chance of getting lube on a customer’s clothes and better chance of getting tipped.

We continue to use the Slip2000 grease on all of the other heavy weapons like the MG42’s, M60’s, 240’s, etc.

The only weapons to get their own special lube are the M134 miniguns. We only use TW-25 on all of our M134’s.

[LittleLebowski]

A quote from Battlefield Las Vegas regarding lubes in a high round count rental range environment. I've only bought a couple bottles of lube in the past 5 years but will probably try Lucas next. I'm currently just borrowing SLiP2000 EWL from friends after they bought BCM uppers.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/


Nice to see other writers poaching from ARF :D (no hate!)

Lucas oil (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IG20RM/) just worked very well for me on a stuck Saker 556 suppressor.

[punkey71]

I'm liking the Lucas stuff. I'll update my Training Journal on my experiences with it after my BigSuperAwesomeSuppressorShootingOuting with a certain NFA dealer on here.....

Uhhhh...details? [emoji6]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RJ]

I also read that if using to much it can gum up. Also that if you are using fireclean they do recommend against using another lube.

Didn't fireclean have a label on the bottle that said like 1 year shelf life?



My bottle, purchased in March, has nothing about an expiration date.


I think the freeze frames from the video will be more troublesome for FC/LAV than any of the spectroscopy data. The two explanations are for something like this are 1. intentional or 2. accidental. Neither reflects well on the people behind the video.

I 100% agree. Considering this video is the basis for LAV endorsing FC, it seems awkward, at best.

[RJ]

Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil 4 oz. $2.50 / oz. (Brownell's, plus shipping)




I'm liking the Lucas stuff. I'll update my Training Journal on my experiences with it after my BigSuperAwesomeSuppressorShootingOuting with a certain NFA dealer on here.....

Hmmmmmm...

[punkey71]

Hmmmmmm...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUCAS-EXTREME-DUTY-GUN-OIL-8-OZ-BOTTLE-/271985951469?hash=item3f53a042ed

$2.38/oz SHIPPED for an 8oz.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Failure2Stop]

This forum is better than this.
I expect it elsewhere, but here...

I am disappoint.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

[Alpha Sierra]

This forum is better than this.
I expect it elsewhere, but here...

I am disappoint.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

Yeah, gun oil is serious bidness.............

[Chris Rhines]

Jack, I'm honestly curious what you object to in this thread. It seems pretty... mild, to me.

[Beat Trash]

I've used a lot of things over the years on my AR's, to include Slip EWL and recently Fireclean.

One of the issues I had with almost everything was gravity migrating the lube down when the carbine was stored vertically in a rifle mount. Several people on various forms who are currently discussing the Fireclean is Crisco issue mention that the Lucas Extreme Duty oil is thick enough to stay put rather well. And the price of it compared to EWL has my attention.

From this point of view, does anyone have any experience with using the new Slip EWL 30 on a BCG of an AR? The EWL 30 is listed on the Slip web site as being EWL that is just thicker, so as to help it stay put better. Anyone with experience using the EWL 30?

[Sigfan26]

I've used a lot of things over the years on my AR's, to include Slip EWL and recently Fireclean.

One of the issues I had with almost everything was gravity migrating the lube down when the carbine was stored vertically in a rifle mount. Several people on various forms who are currently discussing the Fireclean is Crisco issue mention that the Lucas Extreme Duty oil is thick enough to stay put rather well. And the price of it compared to EWL has my attention.

From this point of view, does anyone have any experience with using the new Slip EWL 30 on a BCG of an AR? The EWL 30 is listed on the Slip web site as being EWL that is just thicker, so as to help it stay put better. Anyone with experience using the EWL 30?

Works great and as advertised. It's my first choice (Rand CLP is my second choice)

[Tamara]

This forum is better than this.
I expect it elsewhere, but here...

I am disappoint.

I am disappoint at that obliqueness. :(

[Sigfan26]

This forum is better than this.
I expect it elsewhere, but here...

I am disappoint.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

Why is that? We are but men (and women)

[GJM]

Tam, welcome back. What is your favorite lube these days? I bet that M&P needed a good cleaning and some lube.

[Sigfan26]

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/royal-purple-synthetic-gun-oil/
This stuff works good, too

[Tamara]

Tam, welcome back. What is your favorite lube these days?

Whatever's near to hand. There's Slip2000 and StrikeHold in the range bag, FP-10 and Lucas and Butch's on the table in the basement, more Lucas and Break-Free Collector on top of the filing cabinet here in the office...

[Malamute]

Slightly off topic, is there a small oil bottle that can be carried in the butt trap of an A-2 stock or in ones carry around/truck gear that doesnt leak?

[StraitR]

Slightly off topic, is there a small oil bottle that can be carried in the butt trap of an A-2 stock or in ones carry around/truck gear that doesnt leak?

I've never found a container that didn't eventually leak. Can't help you with the A2 trap door, but for my range bag I simply wrap the bottle in a paper towel and store in a ziplock freezer bag.

[Tamara]

...store in a ziplock freezer bag.

That's what I do. I am going to incorporate StraitR's advanced paper towel technology in the future, though.

[Malamute]

Hmm, good idea. Maybe having some of the small ziplocks like small parts or fasteners from the hardware store come in. And yeah, the advanced paper towel technology looks like a winner.

Or maybe wrapped in a small rag? Or cleaning patches?

I had the cute little oil bottle from a GI type cleaning kit in an A-2 butt stock and it leaked when left in the truck in the heat. Great little bottle. If it didnt leak.

[GJM]

I've never found a container that didn't eventually leak. Can't help you with the A2 trap door, but for my range bag I simply wrap the bottle in a paper towel and store in a ziplock freezer bag.

There are those one use sealed foil oil and grease packages that would work for non routine availability. Have carried them on backpack hunts.

[jondoe297]

From this point of view, does anyone have any experience with using the new Slip EWL 30 on a BCG of an AR? The EWL 30 is listed on the Slip web site as being EWL that is just thicker, so as to help it stay put better. Anyone with experience using the EWL 30?

It's what is presently in my AR's BCG. So far, so good. It sat for a few months in a vertical position, then was taken out and ran through a carbine class where I ran just over 600 rounds through it in a day. No issues.

[EVP]

Slightly off topic, is there a small oil bottle that can be carried in the butt trap of an A-2 stock or in ones carry around/truck gear that doesnt leak?

I don't know of one that would work in the stock but magpul makes a grip insert that will hold a small bottol of oil

[EricM]

Slightly off topic, is there a small oil bottle that can be carried in the butt trap of an A-2 stock or in ones carry around/truck gear that doesnt leak?

Haven't used it for that application, but these (http://www.slip2000.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=S&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60314) are tiny yet seem pretty robust. Have ridden around loose in my range bag for some time without leakage (knock on wood).

http://icedesigns.com/echo0603/pf/091515/e.jpg

[Chuck Whitlock]

Has anyone ever had a lube related failure on a properly lubed/maintained gun?

Why I ditched FL. I started having issues at FITP at FLETC, Artesia. To be fair, I am convinced that the reason I had issues was because our weapons were stored, slide locked to the rear, on a rack with the muzzle down, in what was probably not a climate controlled armory, in the NM desert, during the summer. I'm sure the stuff just warmed up and oozed off the weapon. We were only allowed to clean/lube as a group every few days.

[Beat Trash]

It's what is presently in my AR's BCG. So far, so good. It sat for a few months in a vertical position, then was taken out and ran through a carbine class where I ran just over 600 rounds through it in a day. No issues.

Thanks, this is exactly the type of information I needed. My AR is either vertical in a vehicle mount when at work or vertical in my safe when I'm off duty. Gravity works against most lubes, usually ending up on the buffer and down the tube.

[jondoe297]

Thanks, this is exactly the type of information I needed. My AR is either vertical in a vehicle mount when at work or vertical in my safe when I'm off duty. Gravity works against most lubes, usually ending up on the buffer and down the tube.

When I cleaned it the bolt was dry, but the rifle ran 600+ rounds without a hiccup, and it was a very "dirty" class. It spent time on the ground, had mags loaded that had been in the dirt, etc. I don't know how wet the bolt was ahead of time, because it went straight from the rack into the car, and to the class.

[LittleLebowski]

Uhhhh...details? [emoji6]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Check your PMs. Like now.

[Lomshek]

Just to clarify

Vuurwapenblog did an expose on whether Fire Clean is vegetable based and found out it is. Fire Clean never said it wasn't vegetable based (just declined to comment on their ingredients). The "expose" isn't really anything although many are taking Vuurwapenblog's article to be an attack on Fire Clean and the article is written toward
"It's Crisco and they're ripping you off!!!". That side of this fiasco seems like much ado about nothing designed to (successfully) generate traffic and justify the haters angst toward Fire Clean.

In contrast the whole smoke leaving the gun video is some epic derp and deserving of scorn for the scamtastic salesmanship it is. The pistol is especially hilarious as you see smoke pouring out of the fired case as it's extracted and I don't think they lubed the inside of the case with Fire Clean before loading (although they might have used Bullseye on the FC round). Why they couldn't be happy just saying it cleans easier is beyond me.

ETA to fix the initial blog.

[orionz06]

How in the fuck did anyone think it wasn't vegetable based?!?!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lomshek]

Meant to edit not reply.

[Tamara]

Vuurwapenblog did an expose on whether Fire Clean is vegetable based and found out it is. Fire Clean never said it wasn't vegetable based (just declined to comment on their ingredients). The "expose" isn't really anything although many are taking Vuurwapenblog's article to be an attack on Fire Clean...

Which is hilarious in itself, in light of the post immediately prior to that one (http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/does-fireclean-cause-malfunctions-after-prolonged-storage/). It's not like he said anywhere that the stuff didn't work, and yet everybody's in a big multicam tactical man purse swinging fight over it...

I know I keep saying this, but I really don't get the passion generated by gun lube discussions. :confused:

[texasaggie2005]

but I really don't get the passion generated by gun lube discussions. :confused:

Unfortunately, I don't even shoot enough to have an opinion based on personal experience, much less get passionate about it. So I base my purchases on what is "popular" and recommended by more knowledgeable people. Hell, I bought some Froglube simply because it was non-toxic and smelled like mint, just so my wife wouldn't bitch when I used it in our apartment.

[RoyGBiv]

I know I keep saying this, but I really don't get the passion generated by gun lube discussions. :confused:

Almost as plentiful as the number of oil threads on motorcycle forums.

[Jeep]

I know I keep saying this, but I really don't get the passion generated by gun lube discussions. :confused:

It's like what Henry Kissinger said about university faculty politics: The discussion is so bitter "precisely because the stakes are so low."

[RJ]

I seriously am going to do a test of Canola oil and FC after the next range session.

The patent application references a test of their product. I do not recall the exact details (I'm too lazy to go cut and paste it here) but it basically involves a 6" porcelain bowl and a blow torch. They used the blowtorch for like 35 seconds to coat carbon more or less uniformly on the bowl.

They then applied product to a 2" x 2" white cotton patch (one suspects cleaning patches, duh) and then vigorously scrubbed the bowl, removing the patch when soiled (or no more product was removed.)

Given that, it seems fairly easy to me to go shoot a bunch of crap ammo, then set aside two mags that need cleaning. Dissassemble the mags and remove the followers.

Then take a couple cotton squares, and use FC on one follower, and Canola oil on the other. The winner should be the one that removed the most carbon, amiright?

It's either that or tomorrow, I fry my normal sausage and eggs in FC.

Which should I do? :cool:

[JHC]

I'd never heard that, but I like it. Thanks!

Yes great find Jeep!

[JHC]

I seriously am going to do a test of Canola oil and FC after the next range session.

The patent application references a test of their product. I do not recall the exact details (I'm too lazy to go cut and paste it here) but it basically involves a 6" porcelain bowl and a blow torch. They used the blowtorch for like 35 seconds to coat carbon more or less uniformly on the bowl.

They then applied product to a 2" x 2" white cotton patch (one suspects cleaning patches, duh) and then vigorously scrubbed the bowl, removing the patch when soiled (or no more product was removed.)

Given that, it seems fairly easy to me to go shoot a bunch of crap ammo, then set aside two mags that need cleaning. Dissassemble the mags and remove the followers.

Then take a couple cotton squares, and use FC on one follower, and Canola oil on the other. The winner should be the one that removed the most carbon, amiright?

It's either that or tomorrow, I fry my normal sausage and eggs in FC.

Which should I do? :cool:

Sausage & eggs in FC!!!!

[NickA]

Almost 150 posts and no "FIRECLEAN IS PEOPLE!"?
This place is slipping.

[jondoe297]

How in the fuck did anyone think it wasn't vegetable based?!?!?



That's really the only thing I've been wondering through this whole hubub.

[SecondsCount]

Gun oil is an awesome opportunity to make money, until your brand isn't cool anymore.

The newest seems to be all the rage and then fade with time. WeaponShield, Frog Lube, Slipstream, FireClean, Lucas, Wilson Ultima Lube, and of course good old synthetic motor oil There are a few on that list that have been the on the forum hot list for a while and then all of a sudden the new thing comes along and displaces them.

ETA: Veggie oil can work wonders cleaning carbon and other deposits. Anyone who has ever filled their diesel tank with vegetable based biodiesel for the first time knows what usually happens not long after, a fuel filter change is required due to all the sludge being loosened up in the fuel tank.

[orionz06]

Weaponshield is old news... Guy has been around for a while, his shit works well. He's a little brash but his stuff works. I don't think you can feed it to your baby but cleaning guns is essentially toxic anyway so it's moot in my eyes.

[StraitR]

First, the patent is Canadian, if that matters to anyone other than KevinB. Second, reading through the patent, it looks as though they base all their claims on a combination or compound of vegetable oils, not just a single natural component, so there is some science in it, however little it may be. Honestly, you're basically applying low saturated, high unsaturated fats (alpha-Linolenic acid) that reacts quickly with oxygen to polymerize and form a varnish on your bolt. That's why the directions call for multiple, thin coats, and why the carbon doesn't easily stick. That's why it smokes, stinks, and doesn't play well with other oils. It's also why you can wipe the carbon away with a paper towel without removing the lubrication qualities. It's paint. LOL

The IR spec results published by Andrew at Vuurwapenblog clearly shows the similarities of molecular composition. In the end, does it matter what it is if it works? I think the only thing that causes so much butthurt is all the super secret, high-tech marketing jargon thrown around by the inventors. If in fact, they would have just came out and said something like "we developed an all-natural weapons lubricant that we believe works better than anything else", they could have avoided a lot of fuss.

[RJ]

3893

I have an idea for these guys to turn this around.

Looking at my Gunlube price per oz. compiliation, the sweet spot for high end, hipster-level gun lube is around $5/oz.

So, what say the elves at FC offer a 50% discount, maybe with a coupon?

With all the publicity, heck, sales might more than double, keeping their revenue stream intact (or better), AND introducing a whole new set of Tier 1 / black ops wannabes to the miracle of using Fireclean?

Whatchathink?

[Savage Hands]

Weaponshield is old news... Guy has been around for a while, his shit works well. He's a little brash but his stuff works. I don't think you can feed it to your baby but cleaning guns is essentially toxic anyway so it's moot in my eyes.


I've had an excellent experience with Weapon Shield.

[Lomshek]

We need some 2000 round head to head challenges to sort this out.

Crisco, lard, peanut butter (creamy) and jelly (not preserves). Let the games begin!

[PPGMD]

Looking at my Gunlube price per oz. compiliation, the sweet spot for high end, hipster-level gun lube is around $5/oz.

I was looking at Slip 2000 EWL 30, nearly $10 / oz.

I wanted to buy a bottle to see how it compare to light grease, figuring it might be a replacement for applications that call for grade 0 white lithium grease, which can separate with time.

Too rich for my blood.

[PPGMD]

First, the patent is Canadian, if that matters to anyone other than KevinB. Second, reading through the patent, it looks as though they base all their claims on a combination or compound of vegetable oils, not just a single natural component, so there is some science in it, however little it may be. Honestly, you're basically applying low saturated, high unsaturated fats (alpha-Linolenic acid) that reacts quickly with oxygen to polymerize and form a varnish on your bolt. That's why the directions call for multiple, thin coats, and why the carbon doesn't easily stick. That's why it smokes, stinks, and doesn't play well with other oils. It's also why you can wipe the carbon away with a paper towel without removing the lubrication qualities. It's paint. LOL.

Militec 1 does the same thing, and has the same initial application requirements. And it costs less, doesn't stink, doesn't smoke, and doesn't really break down readily.

So if you desire that varnish to your gun is what you are looking for, you can use Militec 1.

[StraitR]

Militec 1 does the same thing, and has the same initial application requirements. And it costs less, doesn't stink, doesn't smoke, and doesn't really break down readily.

So if you desire that varnish to your gun is what you are looking for, you can use Militec 1.

I've never used FC, nor was I trying to campaign for them. I didn't know that about Militec 1, so thanks for the info. Honestly, I'm not particular about gun oils, and I won't even consider paying for some until I run through the plethora of samples I have laying around. Call me old fashioned, but I just oil as needed and have never had any issues.

[Default.mp3]

Militec 1 does the same thing, and has the same initial application requirements. And it costs less, doesn't stink, doesn't smoke, and doesn't really break down readily.

So if you desire that varnish to your gun is what you are looking for, you can use Militec 1.
I've heard some negative things about Militec 1 (though originally I had heard it in a positive light, from Larry Vickers, who gave out free samples at his class; a little ironic, I suppose). Here's what Chad Mercer's said before:

That shit sucks... It isnt shelf stable, burns off quickly, and even attacks the steel.

Its losts its NSN three times.


Its not even marked as a lube. It is a metal conditioner....


Look up Chloride Stress Corrosion Cracking.

Here is a document from the GOA with some more information: https://books.google.com/books?id=sDZonEVMgb4C&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&focus=viewport#v=onepage&q&f=false

[PPGMD]

I've never used FC, nor was I trying to campaign for them. I didn't know that about Militec 1, so thanks for the info. Honestly, I'm not particular about gun oils, and I won't even consider paying for some until I run through the plethora of samples I have laying around. Call me old fashioned, but I just oil as needed and have never had any issues.

Militec 1 is pretty old (as compared to all the new comers to the gun lube game). Even their website is from the 90s.

[PPGMD]

I've heard some negative things about Militec 1 (though originally I had heard it in a positive light, from Larry Vickers, who gave out free samples at his class; a little ironic, I suppose). Here's what Chad Mercer's said before:

Here is a document from the GOA with some more information: https://books.google.com/books?id=sDZonEVMgb4C&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&focus=viewport#v=onepage&q&f=false

Honestly I haven't used Militec 1 in almost a decade. When StraitR mentioned how FC forms a coating, Militec 1 was the first thing I thought of, because that is what it did. As a lube it was pretty horrible compared to the modern stuff, it migrated easily, and generally didn't last long on guns.

I am not surprised they lost their NSN, particularly if it was granted as a CLP, as there is no way that it meets the C of the CLP. And the other two are iffy.

Todd probably has more recently experience than I do, I remember him saying he used it in some of his torture test stuff. Not sure if he still does.

[ReverendMeat]

Which is hilarious in itself, in light of the post immediately prior to that one (http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/does-fireclean-cause-malfunctions-after-prolonged-storage/). It's not like he said anywhere that the stuff didn't work, and yet everybody's in a big multicam tactical man purse swinging fight over it...

Hell, multiple times in the past, well before the recent hubbub, he's said flat out that FireClean is effective, and still stands by that. Of course that won't stop certain organizations (or certain folk who like to refer to themselves in the third person by their initials) from yelling about libel and whatever else.

[rob_s]

The "passion"around gun lube is no harder to understand than any of the other nonsense surrounding the forearms industry, or anything else humans involve themselves in. It boils down to an emotional investment in one's choices and an inability to acknowledge one may have chosen in error, even when presented with new facts that may be counter to their original conclusions.

To that point, nobody that was already using/pimping fireclean will stop because of all of this, and nobody that wasn't already using it will start, so it's pretty much all flash and no bang.

I will say this about the company, they did their marketing right. They approached every gun celebrity they could think of and offered to send them an unlabeled bottle to "test". To give you an idea the depths to which this marketing went, they even contacted me and sent me some. I happened to be in a Kyle Lamb class that weekend so I discussed it with him, and sure enough they had sent him some too. I "texted" it by applying it to a gun, had nothing but problems, and was told I applied it wrong. My conclusion was that EWL was working great in the way that I was used to app,using it, so I'd stick, with what was working.

Fast forward, and you have all manner of gun celebrities limping the product. And, to my initial point, they aren't going to stop now unless it's proven that Fireclean rapes babies or is secretly made by Hilary Clinton.

[ffhounddog]

People wonder if I cannot find my lube of choice I use CLP. At least I know the advantages and disadvantages of that lube.

This is getting laughable.

[Failure2Stop]

Fast forward, and you have all manner of gun celebrities limping the product.

Sir, I will have you know that I am unrepentant product limper.

[LittleLebowski]

I've heard some negative things about Militec 1 (though originally I had heard it in a positive light, from Larry Vickers, who gave out free samples at his class; a little ironic, I suppose). Here's what Chad Mercer's said before:


Here is a document from the GOA with some more information: https://books.google.com/books?id=sDZonEVMgb4C&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&focus=viewport#v=onepage&q&f=false

I don't think much of Militec.

[JTQ]

I was looking at Slip 2000 EWL 30, nearly $10 / oz.

What's your source? Brownell's has it for about $4.50 per oz., not cheap, but not $10 per oz either. http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/oils-lubricants/lubricant-protectant-oils/slip-2000-extreme-weapons-lube-30-prod80644.aspx

[RJ]

I don't think much of Militec.

Srs Question:

Is there a Lubricant SME on p-f.com?

Could we not have a sticky on the Armorer forum with a short concise list of adequate lubricants (in a manner akin to Doc's ammo list) that the new user can reference?

It would seem to me that would be useful for those of us who don't have the depth and breadth of experience to choose for themselves. So, if this "gun lubricants identified as adequate" list were provided, a noobie could simply select from the list based on local availability, personal cost, etc. and then rock on, as they say.

Kind of like what Doc says on bullets: select a good defensive ammo, buy a lot of it, shoot it, philosophy.

?

[Jay Cunningham]

SME? eh, dunno.

I trust anything Aray has to say on the matter.

[LittleLebowski]

I trust anything Aray has to say on the matter.

Yup.

[PPGMD]

What's your source? Brownell's has it for about $4.50 per oz., not cheap, but not $10 per oz either. http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/oils-lubricants/lubricant-protectant-oils/slip-2000-extreme-weapons-lube-30-prod80644.aspx

The 1 oz bottle (which is what I need to try something) is $10 or more.

[LittleLebowski]

The 1 oz bottle (which is what I need to try something) is $10 or more.

I might have a bottle laying around, let me check.

[PPGMD]

Could we not have a sticky on the Armorer forum with a short concise list of adequate lubricants (in a manner akin to Doc's ammo list) that the new user can reference?

Anything works if you apply it often enough in enough quantity, and it hasn't gummed up due to cold weather or sitting too long.

[scw2]

SME? eh, dunno.

I trust anything Aray has to say on the matter.

Has he shared his recommended list for pistols, rifles, etc. here on this forum before? I basically chose somewhat randomly based on some Google fu, but if there is a vetted, reliable, cheaper option I'd happily switch.

[JTQ]

The 1 oz bottle (which is what I need to try something) is $10 or more.
Gotcha. They're all pretty expensive in 1 oz bottles, but i get your point.

[PPGMD]

I might have a bottle laying around, let me check.


And if LL doesn't. I probably do.

Thanks

[JHC]

The 1 oz bottle (which is what I need to try something) is $10 or more.

4 oz bottles $12.99 http://www.amazon.com/Slip2000-EWL-Twist-Top-4-Ounce/dp/B00635VIY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442414616&sr=8-1&keywords=slip+2000+ewl

1 oz $7.65 http://www.amazon.com/Slip2000-EWL-Twist-Top-1-Ounce/dp/B00635N2MY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1442414616&sr=8-5&keywords=slip+2000+ewl

Helluva penalty for the tiny bottle.

[PPGMD]

4 oz bottles $12.99 http://www.amazon.com/Slip2000-EWL-Twist-Top-4-Ounce/dp/B00635VIY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442414616&sr=8-1&keywords=slip+2000+ewl

1 oz $7.65 http://www.amazon.com/Slip2000-EWL-Twist-Top-1-Ounce/dp/B00635N2MY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1442414616&sr=8-5&keywords=slip+2000+ewl

Helluva penalty for the tiny bottle.

I know right.

On the Browenlls link for the 30 weight, it is also only a few dollars more for the 4oz bottle. But I need another large bottle of lube like I need a hole in my head. I got an entire shelf of lubes, and cleaning products.

And at trade shows they only give away the normal EWL.

[Alpha Sierra]

Srs Question:

Is there a Lubricant SME on p-f.com?

Could we not have a sticky on the Armorer forum with a short concise list of adequate lubricants (in a manner akin to Doc's ammo list) that the new user can reference?

It would seem to me that would be useful for those of us who don't have the depth and breadth of experience to choose for themselves. So, if this "gun lubricants identified as adequate" list were provided, a noobie could simply select from the list based on local availability, personal cost, etc. and then rock on, as they say.

Kind of like what Doc says on bullets: select a good defensive ammo, buy a lot of it, shoot it, philosophy.

?

Why? Serious question

Have we fallen down that far that we can't pick a freaking gun oil on our own?

How did we ever buy guns/lube/bullets/whatever 20 years ago without an "SME" holding our hand?

This is ridiculous

ETA: God kills a puppy every time someone uses the word "vetted" in a gun forum

[StraitR]

Course correction.

[Mr_White]

God kills a puppy every time someone uses the word "vetted" in a gun forum

At that rate the pet population problem will be solved quickly and The Price Is Right can stop stumping for it.

[JHC]

I know right.

On the Browenlls link for the 30 weight, it is also only a few dollars more for the 4oz bottle. But I need another large bottle of lube like I need a hole in my head. I got an entire shelf of lubes, and cleaning products.

And at trade shows they only give away the normal EWL.

Normal?
30 weight?

:eek:

I have said I like Glocks because I'm a "see ball, hit ball" type and now it's "see lube, splash lube" I guess. I didn't know they offered the 30 weight as an option!

Thanks

[Aray]

Ok, here goes. The hand wringing, bed wetting and pillow biting over gun lube is really over the top.

All a lubricant has to do to be effective is be slippery and BE THERE. Specifying a lubricant requires a detailed analysis of a bunch of variables, some of which are temperature, pressures, speeds, how difficult it is to service (change or sample lube), specific environmental conditions, contaminants likely to be present, and it goes on and on.

An AR-15 is not the same problem to solve as a pistol.

AR-15 type:

This is a somewhat challenging environment for a lubricant to do its job for an extended period of time. Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Amsoil, Royal Purple engine oils (et al) all seem do a pretty good job here.
If you are concerned about the potential airborne toxicity of unused motor oil while huffing burned gunpowder and vaporized heavy metals, choke yourself.
If you are concerned about skin contact, wear surgical gloves while cleaning your guns.
I’m convinced that lubricants can be designed to deliver outstanding performance in this application, unfortunately, the materials cost of this lubricant will likely either price this product out of the market, or reduce profit margins to an unacceptable level.

Pistols:

This is a pretty easy lubrication problem to solve. Most stuff you have around your house will actually work ok for the duration of any postulated gunfight. It's how long it lasts under protracted use or extended storage that becomes a bit of an issue.
If you want to lube a gun once, put it in your safe, and a year later go shoot 2,000 rounds at a Super Dave class without lubing the gun prior, choke yourself. It isn't going to happen.
Engine oil is a very good solution here also. So are most other gun lubes. Your Grandpa’s gun oil will be marginal, but still ok for a while under significant use.

I have never held a bottle of FireClean in my hands, nor have I shot a gun that was lubricated with it, as far as I know.

What I can say is this, if a lubricant is non-toxic, it is likely plant based and not petroleum based. If a lubricant is plant based, it can be substantially more susceptible to oxidation. Oxidation is likely the cause of the reported brown sludgy stuff that I have heard about when a non-toxic lube is ignored for a period of time. This can vary greatly depending on additives used, but non-toxic additives seem to be very limited.

All lubes will work until they aren’t there.

I am not a professional Tribologist, nor am I a degreed Organic Chemist or Petroleum Engineer. Take this as my worthless opinion and a place to start to do your own research. I will answer questions to the best of my limited ability.

[Trigger]

Tom,

Have you looked at using Silicone oil (DOT 5 Brake Fluid) on the suppressor internals? See this: www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html

Never mind. I saw that it was discussed in a different post back in March.

[RJ]

Ok, here goes...



Thanks Aray, this is very helpful to folks like me.

I know zip about gun cleaning, other than strolling through the aisle of "gun cleaning products" at Gander Mountain while I was waiting for my 4473 to be processed in 2013. I believe Florida processed the most CCW permits last August EVER. So, I suspect there are a more and more people who are looking for a good simple answer on how to select a lubricant.

After all, this is what p-f.com purports to provide, right?

With that said, a couple of follow up questions, please: (These are all in the context of an autoloading pistol)




If I select a plant-based lubricant, about how long should I be safe in storing a pistol, before it starts to oxidize?

(Reason for question: We RV a lot, and are gone from the house for months at a time. If I go out West in the RV, and come back to FL in 2 months, is that long enough, that I should select a different (read non plant-based) lubricant?)




I've seen some references to "gun grease" (in the area of the rails) as being used. I've also heard that grease attracts dirt, however, so may not be ideal. Is there any good reference viscosity number / analog to select for general use (maybe referencing automotive oil weight, where 30W oil is probably a familiar product, and 75W gear oil being a bit thicker.)

So, for example, the guidance could be "select a gun oil that approximates 30W engine oil, but if you select something thicker, more frequent cleaning the accumulated dirt may be in order.")

(Reason for question: I'd rather use "middle of the road" product (not too thick to gum up with dirt, but not too thin to run onto my pants as soon as I holster it)




Last question: a cited deficiency of Fireclean is it's "lack of corrosion inhibitors". Could you expand briefly on what a "corrosion inhibitor" is, and how it relates to gun lubing in general?

(Reason for question: I'm assuming "corrosion" in this case is oxidation of steel, either exposed and untreated with a coating or from wear. If "all" plant based (Fireclean, Frog Lube, Canola oil) lack any kind of corrosion inhibitor, that would also indicate more frequent cleaning and possible remediation (removal), correct?)



And that's it. I'm not trying to make a meal of this, really; it's just those of us that don't know what we don't know, don't know what we don't know.

Thanks a bunch for taking the time to respond. Much obliged. Rich

[PPGMD]

I don't think that gun grease attract dirt. It simply appears that it does because it looks dirty. Gun grease like most lubes will absorb the dirt, but unlike oil it doesn't readily migrate. When I wipe down exterior of a gun that been oiled I pick up a ton of dirty oil. Do the same on a greased gun and the amount of dirt on the exterior away is much less.

But that lack of migration means that the grease will last longer. And in my experience will operate until the amount of residue exceeds the amount that the grease can adsorb. Which in my experience is typically much much longer than a single lubrication of oil will last. I've gone more than once over 4,000 rounds on a single lubrication of grease, and it was only cleaned because I want a clean gun for a match.

Now OTOH the difference between gun grease and oil is, I can just add more oil to the gun and it will work to a certain level. But with grease you have to wipe it off, and put it back on again.

Personally I rarely see a guns that stops working due to being too dirty, or the lube isn't slippery enough. Typically they stop working because they are bone dry because the lubrication has migrated or been burned off.

[TGS]

Tom,

Have you looked at using Silicone oil (DOT 5 Brake Fluid) on the suppressor internals? See this: www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html

I don't know if it contextually applies here, but DOT 5 fluid is known to cause rust in brake lines. It's recommended to only use for the day at the track, and switch to DOT 3 or 4 after the track day. It is specifically warned against using for cars on a day-to-day basis because of this.

So, again, I'm not sure if the same circumstance applies to a suppressor, but I'd hate to see one of your guys' very expensive and time consuming investments ruined by rust. Something to look into, at least.

[Aray]

If I select a plant-based lubricant, about how long should I be safe in storing a pistol, before it starts to oxidize?

(Reason for question: We RV a lot, and are gone from the house for months at a time. If I go out West in the RV, and come back to FL in 2 months, is that long enough, that I should select a different (read non plant-based) lubricant?)

I have promotional bottles of Slip EWL on my shelf that are 3 years + and are still fine. Each one will be different, store in a cool dry place.


I've seen some references to "gun grease" (in the area of the rails) as being used. I've also heard that grease attracts dirt, however, so may not be ideal. Is there any good reference viscosity number / analog to select for general use (maybe referencing automotive oil weight, where 30W oil is probably a familiar product, and 75W gear oil being a bit thicker.)

So, for example, the guidance could be "select a gun oil that approximates 30W engine oil, but if you select something thicker, more frequent cleaning the accumulated dirt may be in order.")

(Reason for question: I'd rather use "middle of the road" product (not too thick to gum up with dirt, but not too thin to run onto my pants as soon as I holster it)

If you use synthetic motor oil in your car or motorcycle, you can buy an extra quart and use that. Most synthetic engine oils have pour points that are far below where it would likely matter. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w-50, for example has a pour point of -42C (-43.6F).

I don't recommend grease.




Last question: a cited deficiency of Fireclean is it's "lack of corrosion inhibitors". Could you expand briefly on what a "corrosion inhibitor" is, and how it relates to gun lubing in general?

(Reason for question: I'm assuming "corrosion" in this case is oxidation of steel, either exposed and untreated with a coating or from wear. If "all" plant based (Fireclean, Frog Lube, Canola oil) lack any kind of corrosion inhibitor, that would also indicate more frequent cleaning and possible remediation (removal), correct?)

In general, yes, corrosion inhibitors protect the metal; usually by reacting with a corrosive substance and rendering it non threatening, or creating a protective layer on the metal, like an oxide layer or a thin film effect.

And that's it. I'm not trying to make a meal of this, really; it's just those of us that don't know what we don't know, don't know what we don't know.

Thanks a bunch for taking the time to respond. Much obliged. Rich

I hope this helps.

[Aray]

I don't think that gun grease attract dirt. It simply appears that it does because it looks dirty. Gun grease like most lubes will absorb the dirt, but unlike oil it doesn't readily migrate. When I wipe down exterior of a gun that been oiled I pick up a ton of dirty oil. Do the same on a greased gun and the amount of dirt on the exterior away is much less.

But that lack of migration means that the grease will last longer. And in my experience will operate until the amount of residue exceeds the amount that the grease can adsorb. Which in my experience is typically much much longer than a single lubrication of oil will last. I've gone more than once over 4,000 rounds on a single lubrication of grease, and it was only cleaned because I want a clean gun for a match.

Now OTOH the difference between gun grease and oil is, I can just add more oil to the gun and it will work to a certain level. But with grease you have to wipe it off, and put it back on again.

Personally I rarely see a guns that stops working due to being too dirty, or the lube isn't slippery enough. Typically they stop working because they are bone dry because the lubrication has migrated or been burned off.

I don't think any lube attracts dirt. Some just hang on to it better, I've seen guns that have been lubed with grease capture dirt particles and create a lapping effect. The gun keeps running, but the surface exhibits accelerated wear.

Also,the grease's binding agent (usually a metal soap, like lithium) remains after the actual lubricant in the product has been expended via oxidation or from exposure to high temperatures.

Grease can also be very problematic in colder temperatures, causing a reduction in reliability due to sluggish operation of a gun's action.

It's just too easy to add more oil IMHO.

[Dagga Boy]

I simply divide this stuff up into what can I use on the kitchen table, and what does the home supervisor make me take outside to work with. I think the appeal professionally for some stuff is how it is handled as well. Crap we did with chemicals, lead, etc. in the 80's is vastly different now in the firearms world. The last place I used a crap load of FIREClean was in a place we prepped guns and I would have been lynched for bringing a bunch of motor oil into. On the other side, when we got to the part of cleaning 300 guns in a different place after weeks of hard use, it was kerosene and ATF and open air and not inside a non ventilated structure. There is a place for most of this stuff.

[RJ]

I hope this helps.

Very much. Thanks.


I simply divide this stuff up into what can I use on the kitchen table, and what does the home supervisor make me take outside to work with. I think the appeal professionally for some stuff is how it is handled as well. Crap we did with chemicals, lead, etc. in the 80's is vastly different now in the firearms world. The last place I used a crap load of FIREClean was in a place we prepped guns and I would have been lynched for bringing a bunch of motor oil into. On the other side, when we got to the part of cleaning 300 guns in a different place after weeks of hard use, it was kerosene and ATF and open air and not inside a non ventilated structure. There is a place for most of this stuff.

Makes sense. Thanks. My home supervisor/SWMBO was happy with the smell of Froglube in our small apartment. We're moving house at the end of the month, so with a petroleum-based product, I rather suspect I'll be relegated to the carport area.


I...

...Personally I rarely see a guns that stops working due to being too dirty, or the lube isn't slippery enough. Typically they stop working because they are bone dry because the lubrication has migrated or been burned off.

Gotcha. Understood. Thanks again.

[PPGMD]

I don't think any lube attracts dirt. Some just hang on to it better, I've seen guns that have been lubed with grease capture dirt particles and create a lapping effect. The gun keeps running, but the surface exhibits accelerated wear.

Also,the grease's binding agent (usually a metal soap, like lithium) remains after the actual lubricant in the product has been expended via oxidation or from exposure to high temperatures.

Grease can also be very problematic in colder temperatures, causing a reduction in reliability due to sluggish operation of a gun's action.

It's just too easy to add more oil IMHO.

I can certainly see that happening. OTOH my experience has been that greased guns show wear at much lower rates than oiled guns.

As far as colder temperatures, the climate I live in has been classified as subtropical. So not really an issue for me. :D

[Slavex]

Very interesting read on Militec1 (posted earlier). I've had zero issues with it, use it because I got for free, and will continue to use it until it runs out, then, if I'm still kicking, I expect I'll just use motor oil.

saw this on FB, from an older issue of SWAT

3902]

[LittleLebowski]

Why? Serious question

Have we fallen down that far that we can't pick a freaking gun oil on our own?

How did we ever buy guns/lube/bullets/whatever 20 years ago without an "SME" holding our hand?

This is ridiculous

ETA: God kills a puppy every time someone uses the word "vetted" in a gun forum


fo·rum
ˈfôrəm/Submit
noun
1.
a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
"it will be a forum for consumers to exchange their views on medical research"
synonyms: meeting, assembly, gathering, rally, conference, seminar, convention, symposium, colloquium, caucus;

You could be a bit more positive or ignore questions that you already have an answer to. I believe that Rich is just getting started out on this hobby and could probably learn better sans caustic comments. You don't have to follow this advice but positivity can be infectious. Uncle Pat Rogers taught me that and it's one of the most valuable lessons he taught me.

[Alpha Sierra]

Grease can also be very problematic in colder temperatures, causing a reduction in reliability due to sluggish operation of a gun's action.

http://www.amsoil.com/shopres/products/900px/GEC.jpg


Operating Range, °F (°C) -75 to 315 (-59 to 157)

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/grease/arctic-synthetic-grease/?code=GECCR-EA

Nothing lubricates pistol slide rails like grease. And for every operating condition there is an industrial/automotive/aerospace grease that will work.

[5pins]

http://www.amsoil.com/shopres/products/900px/GEC.jpg



http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/grease/arctic-synthetic-grease/?code=GECCR-EA

Nothing lubricates pistol slide rails like grease. And for every operating condition there is an industrial/automotive/aerospace grease that will work.


Are you kidding me! $11.50 for 15 ounces. That’s highway robbery. :D

[Alpha Sierra]

Are you kidding me! $11.50 for 15 ounces. That’s highway robbery. :D

I know, right?

And it will probably last you the rest of your life too

I've been using this: http://www.proshotproducts.com/Pro-Gold-1-oz-jar_p_616.html for nearly 15 years on pistol slides and slide stop pins, pump action and O/U shotguns, bolt action rifles, trigger sears and just about anywhere else that is not directly exposed to combustion products on firearms.

I still have the same jar I bought in 1999 - 2000.

[perlslacker]

some time ago I resolved to quit worrying about gun lube, and any time I felt the urge to research gun lubes online (or argue about them) I would dry fire instead.

A few months and about $0.75 worth of ATF later, my USPSA classifier percentage has been steadily climbing and my guns still run, though after this thread who knows?

[JTQ]

Is there any good reference viscosity number / analog to select for general use (maybe referencing automotive oil weight, where 30W oil is probably a familiar product, and 75W gear oil being a bit thicker.)

So, for example, the guidance could be "select a gun oil that approximates 30W engine oil, but if you select something thicker, more frequent cleaning the accumulated dirt may be in order.")

As a reference point for thickness, I have some 5w-30 Mobil 1 in one of those needle tip Brownell's bottles, I also have BreakFree CLP in another, and SLIP 2000 (the regular variety, not EWL) in another. Even motor oil as thin as 5w-30 is noticeably thicker than the regular gun oils like BreakFree CLP and SLIP 2000. Wilson Ultima Lube Universal is a thicker product, even a little thicker than some 50 weight AMSOIL I also have on hand.

[Aray]

Nothing lubricates pistol slide rails like grease. And for every operating condition there is an industrial/automotive/aerospace grease that will work.

I definitely didn't say grease doesn't work. I gave my opinion as to what some of the usual downsides are to the standard greases discussed.

That is a great product. I still wouldn't chose grease as a spec'ed lubricant for a pistol and definitely not an AR for the reasons I stated above.

I'll reiterate, it is not difficult in any way to find a lube that will allow a pistol to function.

[voodoo_man]

I used fireclean to cook eggs this mornin.

They tasted....tactical

[RJ]

As a reference point for thickness, I have some 5w-30 Mobil 1 in one of those needle tip Brownell's bottles, I also have BreakFree CLP in another, and SLIP 2000 (the regular variety, not EWL) in another. Even motor oil as thin as 5w-30 is noticeably thicker than the regular gun oils like BreakFree CLP and SLIP 2000. Wilson Ultima Lube Universal is a thicker product, even a little thicker than some 50 weight AMSOIL I also have on hand.

Thanks, that's pretty helpful, actually.

Right now, I'm gravitating towards getting one product to clean, and one to lube. Since we are moving end of month, and I'll have a bit more room (and more ventilation in the carport), I may get a can of Ballistol for the cleaning, then see if I have some synthetic oil floating around for a lube.

If I connect up with PPGMD, maybe I can score a tube of Lucas ED gun oil for free, also.

(PPGMD - We're closing on the house in Belleair later this month, my new truck arrives late Oct, then we have to drive up to NJ to collect our new RV in Nov. It may be Nov before I get to WAC for my first ever USPSA match.)

[Alpha Sierra]

Right now, I'm gravitating towards getting one product to clean, and one to lube.
That would be a good decision IME

[Aray]

Right now, I'm gravitating towards getting one product to clean, and one to lube.

I like that plan

[PPGMD]

If I connect up with PPGMD, maybe I can score a tube of Lucas ED gun oil for free, also.

(PPGMD - We're closing on the house in Belleair later this month, my new truck arrives late Oct, then we have to drive up to NJ to collect our new RV in Nov. It may be Nov before I get to WAC for my first ever USPSA match.)

I literally got a small bag full of samples.

[RJ]

I literally got a small bag full of samples.

Thanks Man. Looking forward to getting started in competition.

[LittleLebowski]

Non chlorinated brake cleaner, hose out your weapon outside. Let it dry, relube. DONE.

[scw2]

Rich, let me know how the Lucas works for you. I'll probably pick some up (or Slip 2000) once I'm done with what I have currently and pair that with a basic CLP for cleaning. :)

Thanks for the genuine input guys. Like Rich, I'm new, and as I was trying to figure out what to get it just seemed like there were lots of legit products and lots of puffed up claims on mediocre products, and it was hard to tell between fact and opinion. I know it sounds stupid that we're actually worrying about what product to use, but getting a short list of proven products makes it easier for newbies to sort the wheat from the chaff.

[Savage Hands]

I used fireclean to cook eggs this mornin.

They tasted....tactical

Tastical...

[Luke]

Non chlorinated brake cleaner, hose out your weapon outside. Let it dry, relube. DONE.



/thread

[JTQ]

I'll probably pick some up (or Slip 2000) once I'm done with what I have currently and pair that with a basic CLP for cleaning. :)
For what it's worth, SLIP 2000 is a CLP.

[LittleLebowski]

Rich, let me know how the Lucas works for you. I'll probably pick some up (or Slip 2000) once I'm done with what I have currently and pair that with a basic CLP for cleaning. :)

Thanks for the genuine input guys. Like Rich, I'm new, and as I was trying to figure out what to get it just seemed like there were lots of legit products and lots of puffed up claims on mediocre products, and it was hard to tell between fact and opinion. I know it sounds stupid that we're actually worrying about what product to use, but getting a short list of proven products makes it easier for newbies to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Just use non chlorinated brake cleaner for cleaning. Cheaper, faster, better.

[TGS]

Just use non chlorinated brake cleaner for cleaning. Cheaper, faster, better.

Am I the only guy here that just washes his guns in the sink with Dawn and hot water?

[Aray]

Am I the only guy here that just washes his guns in the sink with Dawn and hot water?

I have showered with a flintlock muzzleloader.

[Chris Rhines]

Non-Chlorinated brake cleaner is fine if you have an outside to use it in. I'm not using that stuff in my apartment.

[ReverendMeat]

Am I the only guy here that just washes his guns in the sink with Dawn and hot water?

Can't tell if you're joking or not but last time I "cleaned" my Ruger 22/45 I just ran it under hot water.

[Matt O]

Non-Chlorinated brake cleaner is fine if you have an outside to use it in. I'm not using that stuff in my apartment.

I would amend that to read: "is fine if you have an outside area that is preferably away from the prying eyes of neighbors." I make it a point of remaining super low key about most of my shooting/hunting activities so as not to give my sensitive northern Virginia neighbors the vapors.

[LHS]

I would amend that to read: "is fine if you have an outside area that is preferably away from the prying eyes of neighbors." I make it a point of remaining super low key about most of my shooting/hunting activities so as not to give my sensitive northern Virginia neighbors the vapors.

That's my issue as well. I have a fenced in back yard, but I have a dog and a kid that love to play in it. Dumping brake cleaner in it seems like a poor decision.

[rsa-otc]

Am I the only guy here that just washes his guns in the sink with Dawn and hot water?

Except that all of those contaminates entering our water supply. Everything I do ends up double bagged in contractor strength garbage bags. I even use brake cleaner over the garbage can. The only exception would have been when I cleaned my muzzleloader. But I doubt very much more than burnt powder wentry down the drain.

[RJ]

That's my issue as well. I have a fenced in back yard, but I have a dog and a kid that love to play in it. Dumping brake cleaner in it seems like a poor decision.

I did my last BMW brake job (four wheels, pads and rotors) with a couple cans of that stuff. It was very effective, but messy and smelly as hell.

Since the amount of carbon I scrape off my delicate German handgun after a whopping 60 round range session could fit under my fingernail, I suspect for me it's overkill.

I like the concept of using Ballistol; kind of connects me with ze Imperial Armee, even though I gather it's just mineral oil with nice smelling stuff added to it.

And: Herr Dr. Klever taught in Karlsruhe, not far from where I went to school.

But mainly, it's endorsed by LAV himself:

"If I had to pick one lubricant to do it all Ballistol would be my choice. It works great metal and wood and is superb on anything that fires corrosive ammo. I have used it for years with excellent results. Highly recommended."

Larry Vickers
Host of TacTV
Vickers Tactical Inc. "

http://www.ballistol.com/about-us/

:cool:

[StraitR]

Am I the only guy here that just washes his guns in the sink with Dawn and hot water?

Guy, maybe, but not the only person.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2961-1911-s-I-dont-get-it&p=101024&viewfull=1#post101024

[Slavex]

I use brake cleaner, no idea if it's non chlorinated or not. I hose my guns off into a bucket, throw the guts in there, shake em around, scrub where needed. Then put bucket outside to let the smell evaporate out there, and WD40 everything and wipe clean. Then lube and reassemble. The WD40 is just to bring the surface back from the dryness the brake cleaner left it at. Use to use a Castrol product that was for guns a hand pump spray, but I'm out of that now. This is like maybe once a year for most of my metal guns? Don't use the brake cleaner on the plastic ones though.

[Alpha Sierra]

Except that all of those contaminates entering our water supply. Everything I do ends up double bagged in contractor strength garbage bags. I even use brake cleaner over the garbage can. The only exception would have been when I cleaned my muzzleloader. But I doubt very much more than burnt powder wentry down the drain.

Am I bad for tossing the occasional mis loaded live round in the trash?

[RJ]

Rich, let me know how the Lucas works for you.

Sure thing man, no problem.

I have to say, though, that basically what they are telling us noobs is:

1) Keep your gun clean with whatever you like and

2) put some damn lube -- any lube -- on it.

:cool:


See you in March in Memphistan?

[Luke]

I use brake cleaner, no idea if it's non chlorinated or not. I hose my guns off into a bucket, throw the guts in there, shake em around, scrub where needed. Then put bucket outside to let the smell evaporate out there, and WD40 everything and wipe clean. Then lube and reassemble. The WD40 is just to bring the surface back from the dryness the brake cleaner left it at. Use to use a Castrol product that was for guns a hand pump spray, but I'm out of that now. This is like maybe once a year for most of my metal guns? Don't use the brake cleaner on the plastic ones though.

I don't know if yall have it up there, but try some WURTH "film" spray, I think that would be better than WD40.

[scw2]

See you in March in Memphistan?

Yessir. Are you guys going to do the live fire competition? I fully expect to place last if I do it, and I'm sure I'd have fun and learn from it, but not sure if I really want to deal with flying and bringing all the stuff I'd need to take part in it...

[RJ]

Yessir. Are you guys going to do the live fire competition? I fully expect to place last if I do it, and I'm sure I'd have fun and learn from it, but not sure if I really want to deal with flying and bringing all the stuff I'd need to take part in it...

Awesome!

You will not place last - that spot is reserved for me. :cool:

Mrs. J is a no for live fire; she's going to the conference also, but is not planning to do the shooting / competition part.

Although, she did buy a "Boys may come and go, but my S&W is always by my side" T-shirt. So there's that. :)

[NEPAKevin]

The only exception would have been when I cleaned my muzzleloader. But I doubt very much more than burnt powder wentry down the drain.

Then there is the traditional method of cleaning muzzle loaders, which I believe is environmentally friendly but as far as doing it in the back yard, ymmv re nosy neighbors.

[Jared]

I skimmed this thread, so sorry if it's been asked and answered, but is there an oil out there that does good as a lube and does a good job protecting against corrosion? Summers get pretty humid here, and I'd like to have a little extra rust prevention.

[Hatchetman]

This thread has has so inspired me I'm thinking about setting up a Go Fund Me page for a new firearm lubricant I'll call "Emperor's Egress." It'll be a spent piece .50 brass into which I'll insert one of those perfume spritzer doohickeys, in Multicam of course. I'll then run a Ball Jar over to the NRA's National Firearms Museum, capture some of the air there, and then, per the tenets of the science of homeopathy, expose the .50 shells to said jar, allowing users to bathe their firearms in a molecular compound similar to that in which the best maintained, historic guns are kept.

The ad copy almost writes itself: "Egress in an Emergency!" "Imperial Dress for Your Gun!" "Invisible, Way Out, Lube!" And so on. Those signing up at the higher Fund levels will also get bore patches that were tumble dried with a pair of John Browning's socks. "Add Browning's Genius and Bouquet to Your Bore and Shoot Better!"

Who's in?

[RJ]

This thread has has so inspired me I'm thinking about setting up a Go Fund Me page for a new firearm lubricant I'll call "Emperor's Egress." It'll be a spent piece .50 brass into which I'll insert one of those perfume spritzer doohickeys, in Multicam of course. I'll then run a Ball Jar over to the NRA's National Firearms Museum, capture some of the air there, and then, per the tenets of the science of homeopathy, expose the .50 shells to said jar, allowing users to bathe their firearms in a molecular compound similar to that in which the best maintained, historic guns are kept.

The ad copy almost writes itself: "Egress in an Emergency!" "Imperial Dress for Your Gun!" "Invisible, Way Out, Lube!" And so on. Those signing up at the higher Fund levels will also get bore patches that were tumble dried with a pair of John Browning's socks. "Add Browning's Genius and Bouquet to Your Bore and Shoot Better!"

Who's in?

Add 1 T Garlic and I'm in.

[orionz06]

This thread has has so inspired me I'm thinking about setting up a Go Fund Me page for a new firearm lubricant I'll call "Emperor's Egress." It'll be a spent piece .50 brass into which I'll insert one of those perfume spritzer doohickeys, in Multicam of course. I'll then run a Ball Jar over to the NRA's National Firearms Museum, capture some of the air there, and then, per the tenets of the science of homeopathy, expose the .50 shells to said jar, allowing users to bathe their firearms in a molecular compound similar to that in which the best maintained, historic guns are kept.

The ad copy almost writes itself: "Egress in an Emergency!" "Imperial Dress for Your Gun!" "Invisible, Way Out, Lube!" And so on. Those signing up at the higher Fund levels will also get bore patches that were tumble dried with a pair of John Browning's socks. "Add Browning's Genius and Bouquet to Your Bore and Shoot Better!"

Who's in?

Get someone who doesn't know anything about lubrication to endorse it and you'll make some money.


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

[TGS]

Except that all of those contaminates entering our water supply. Everything I do ends up double bagged in contractor strength garbage bags. I even use brake cleaner over the garbage can. The only exception would have been when I cleaned my muzzleloader. But I doubt very much more than burnt powder wentry down the drain.

Gray water gets treated before it gets pumped back into the supply. Non issue.

In addition, the amount of contaminants caused by me doing that probably ranks as a mouse fart on the scale of other contaminants entering the system everyday. Dead birds. Dead bodies. Oily runoff from the roads when it rains, and let's not get started on industry.

[TCinVA]

That's my issue as well. I have a fenced in back yard, but I have a dog and a kid that love to play in it. Dumping brake cleaner in it seems like a poor decision.

When I was a kid my father set my hair on fire with a blowtorch.


Dead birds. Dead bodies.

Your neighborhood sounds fun!

[Hambo]

When I was a kid my father set my hair on fire with a blowtorch.


That's the most interesting post in this thread. :cool:

[ReverendMeat]

I used fireclean to cook eggs this mornin.

They tasted....tactical

You may have beaten these guys to the punch but they were the first to get it on video :)

https://www.full30.com/video/799453c720195640a7b73231b0a540a0

[Slavex]

hmmm, never heard of it, but the WD40 works fine to wash away the dryness (does that even make sense?) that the brake cleaner leaves. I wipe it down with a cloth after that. I suppose I could use oil, but I find the WD40 does a good job of restoring the finish of my metal guns and doesn't leave the gun slimy after I wipe it with the cloth.


I don't know if yall have it up there, but try some WURTH "film" spray, I think that would be better than WD40.

[Mr Pink]

I love how people talk about a product they've never used. If you don't like FireClean, then don't use it.

I shoot a lot and often. I don't like cleaning guns or applying lubricants and that's why I use FireClean. It works. When it stops working, I'll switch to something else.

I've been using FireClean for the past few years on all of my firearms. I shoot a few thousand rounds per year in many different environments, including overseas. I have an M4 that hasn't been cleaned in over two years and I only apply a few drops a year.

The author said FireClean works and that's good enough for me. I don't care about the ingredients as long as it continues to work. The only two things that I would disagree with are his recommendations for military not using it and that he heard someone's firearms froze shut. I've used FireClean in Afghanistan without issues in summer and winter. My firearms did not freeze shut in the snow nor did they malfunction during the summer heat. That's my personal experience, not some scientific results.

[PPGMD]

The author said FireClean works and that's good enough for me. I don't care about the ingredients as long as it continues to work. The only two things that I would disagree with are his recommendations for military not using it and that he heard someone's firearms froze shut. I've used FireClean in Afghanistan without issues in summer and winter. My firearms did not freeze shut in the snow nor did they malfunction during the summer heat. That's my personal experience, not some scientific results.

What he is talking about has nothing to do with temperature (nor did he say it involved temperature), but that Fireclean can break down due to Oxygen and UV exposure into a gooey mess.

And Fireclean isn't the only lube that can do it, thin white lithium grease like TW25B can do the same due to the lube separating from the binder.

[KevinB]

Keep in mind Mr. Pink knows his way around a battlefield or two from a high end of the spectrum...



I exclusively use FIREClean - I'm really lazy and I hate cleaning.
I have a 1911 that has sat for over a year - lubed with Fireclean - and no breakdown. I think that anything past that is getting into the long term preservation and storage aspect.

TW-25B on the other hand if shot - after a week or so breaks down - and if shot a lot also cakes into a cement like compound.



I have no financial ties to the lube business -- I use FC because I want my guns to work.
My second choice is SLIP2000 EWL.

[Malamute]

Am I the only guy here that just washes his guns in the sink with Dawn and hot water?


I have showered with a flintlock muzzleloader.

I clean my percussion pistols in the sink with hot tap water in a yogurt container. Seems to work fine. If you reload them before oiling them you dont have to worry about the oil messing with the powder.

Fireclean? Sounds like it works fine. If I hadnt just bought a bottle of slips ewl I'd try it.

Having a similar origin as crisco doesnt mean its exactly the same as crisco, as if thats even an issue though. The patent stuff mentioned a blend. Doesnt really matter what it is if it works, and if one likes the non-toxic stuff, better yet. I think they tried jojoba oil in truck engines and it worked.

[PPGMD]

Nvm..

[Tamara]

Nvm..

*Holds envelope to forehead*

You were going to say "But this is a tribology question, not a face-shootin'-ology one", right? ;)

[Failure2Stop]

I'll be interested when someone shows me a non-toxic alternative that is better. Until then, I'll still be using what has worked for several years and is readily consumer available (did get some cool stuff in PA, but not commercially available). My go to is FC. Since I'm not a chemist, I'm not qualified to argue the composition, I can only talk actual practical use, and whatever it's made of, it works as advertised.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

[Savage Hands]

I'll be interested when someone shows me a non-toxic alternative that is better. Until then, I'll still be using what has worked for several years and is readily consumer available (did get some cool stuff in PA, but not commercially available). My go to is FC. Since I'm not a chemist, I'm not qualified to argue the composition, I can only talk actual practical use, and whatever it's made of, it works as advertised.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

Weapon Shield is my recommendation, best overall CLP that I've used since about 2007 or 2008. I've gone thousands of rounds without cleaning and used it during snowy days, it also keeps the carbon from sticking as stated by Fireclean. Their grease and solvent work extremely well and it's a synthetic so oxidation shouldn't be a problem. I could be looked at as being biased due to my recent relationship with Weapon Shield, but I've said the same thing for years before that. The owner of the shop I help out at takes care of his carry guns like Todd's torture guns, previously used Slip2k and was pleased with it but after testing WS he believes it's a superior product overall including in Suppressed guns. There's no magic to it, but the MSDS data is listed online and the creator is also responsible for the original formula of FP10 before he sold the rights to it. I'm sure George will send a sample to many here who will ask.

[Failure2Stop]

Weapon Shield is my recommendation, best overall CLP that I've used since about 2007 or 2008. I've gone thousands of rounds without cleaning and used it during snowy days, it also keeps the carbon from sticking as stated by Fireclean. Their grease and solvent work extremely well and it's a synthetic so oxidation shouldn't be a problem. I could be looked at as being biased due to my recent relationship with Weapon Shield, but I've said the same thing for years before that. The owner of the shop I help out at takes care of his carry guns like Todd's torture guns, previously used Slip2k and was pleased with it but after testing WS he believes it's a superior product overall including in Suppressed guns. There's no magic to it, but the MSDS data is listed online and the creator is also responsible for the original formula of FP10 before he sold the rights to it. I'm sure George will send a sample to many here who will ask.
I tried it, it was ok.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

[5pins]

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/grease/arctic-synthetic-grease/?code=GECCR-EA

Nothing lubricates pistol slide rails like grease. And for every operating condition there is an industrial/automotive/aerospace grease that will work.


Check this out. A non-toxic, synthetic, food grade arctic temp grease. 20 cents an ounce if you buy 12lbs.

With the right marketing, and markup, one could make a killing.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008GX6EAI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=I7N3OAN1Y5NH&coliid=I3EYX346NC9151&psc=1#descriptionAndDetails

[JHC]

When I was a kid my father set my hair on fire with a blowtorch.



Your neighborhood sounds fun!

Just so I can easily return from time to time, review my posts to see this awesomnity lol

[Savage Hands]

I tried it, it was ok.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff


I think it excels as a lubricant, resisting corrosion isn't a problem for my G19 I've carried daily from negative 12 in Nevada to over 118 degrees in California and it makes it much easier to clean compared to the other CLP's. Now for a more aggressive cleaner I think their newest non-toxic solvent works very well without needing a gas mask, with it being non-toxic it's recommend to have it sit a little longer to soak. I also like it's compatability with the CLP as if there's some solvent left over it won't cause a problem after you lube.

[orionz06]

I tried it, it was ok.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

What does FIREClean do for you that makes you prefer it to Weapon Shield? (understanding they both work anyway)

[Failure2Stop]

What does FIREClean do for you that makes you prefer it to Weapon Shield? (understanding they both work anyway)
I tried WS a few years ago when I was given a free sample. Worked fine, as I recall, but about the same time I was also using Slip Extreme (can't immediately recall the exact name of the newer formula). Thought that the Slip was a little better overall in staying put in the gun.

After that, I tried FrogLube, which gave me some issues when hot guns cooled in low ambient temps, and didn't do much as a cleaner.

FC has been better in my experience for keeping fouling from hardening and cleaning up faster if applied in several light coats and used exclusively.

I found that they all worked acceptably for simple lubrication, but preferred the long term performance of FC.

All subjective, and based on observation, not dedicated testing.


From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

[LHS]

When I was a kid my father set my hair on fire with a blowtorch.


And my dad tricked me into snorting Mace when I was in kindergarten. I'm trying to do better.

[joshs]

I'll be interested when someone shows me a non-toxic alternative that is better.

Why does toxicity of a CLP matter when the material being cleaned is extremely toxic? I can see if you are using it in an aerosol, but for a liquid oil/grease, I don't see how a non-toxic lubricant/cleaner exposes you to much fewer toxins than a "toxic" one.

I had a recent interesting experience with FC. We have several ARs at work that are used as loaner/demo guns. One was cleaned/lubricated with FC about a year ago, then shot and put in our safe. We tried to shoot it this week, and it only fired one round then had several light strikes in a row. I pulled the BCG and the firing pin felt like it had been glued inside the bolt. I'll try to get a video tomorrow at work before the gun gets cleaned.

[PPGMD]

All subjective, and based on observation, not dedicated testing.

Which is something that I think this industry needs.

[rob_s]

Why does toxicity of a CLP matter when the material being cleaned is extremely toxic? I can see if you are using it in an aerosol, but for a liquid oil/grease, I don't see how a non-toxic lubricant/cleaner exposes you to much fewer toxins than a "toxic" one.

I had a recent interesting experience with FC. We have several ARs at work that are used as loaner/demo guns. One was cleaned/lubricated with FC about a year ago, then shot and put in our safe. We tried to shoot it this week, and it only fired one round then had several light strikes in a row. I pulled the BCG and the firing pin felt like it had been glued inside the bolt. I'll try to get a video tomorrow at waork before the gun gets cleaned.

The standard answer is that you're doing it wrong.

[orionz06]

Why does toxicity of a CLP matter when the material being cleaned is extremely toxic? I can see if you are using it in an aerosol, but for a liquid oil/grease, I don't see how a non-toxic lubricant/cleaner exposes you to much fewer toxins than a "toxic" one.

People generally ignore that part. They're usually tripping over themselves to post about the latest crap on their blog or some shit like that.

Even if one wears gloves participation in the act of shooting alone does a mighty fine job of exposing people to toxic materials.

[Tamara]

People generally ignore that part. They're usually tripping over themselves to post about the latest crap on their blog or some shit like that.

You've never played beer pong with FP-10 instead of beer?

Seriously, though, as LL has brought up in conversation, a suppressed DI gun can aerosolize (is that a word?) a bunch of lube if you're running it wet, and so that might be a consideration for some folks.

[orionz06]

You've never played beer pong with FP-10 instead of beer?

Seriously, though, as LL has brought up in conversation, a suppressed DI gun can aerosolize (is that a word?) a bunch of lube if you're running it wet, and so that might be a consideration for some folks.

It sure can. That same gun can also send loads of crud into your face if you run it bone dry.

Point being is perhaps we need to worry less about the lubes we use and our ability to slather babies in them without making them sick and instead look to inhalation and skin contact in general, where needed. I'm not sure I've ever seen any of the non-toxic lube proponents on the range in a respirator.

[TR675]

Given the choice between interacting with both toxic materials from the gun/ammo plus toxic materials from the lube/solvent, or interacting with toxic materials from the gun/ammo only, it makes sense to me to choose door no. 2. Especially when the type of lube used is pretty irrelevant to whether the gun works more better or not.

It may not ultimately matter much - who knows - but it's a simple, reasonably cost effective risk reduction.

I am also a big fan of using nitrile gloves while cleaning.

[Pup town]

The standard answer is that you're doing it wrong.

This is the issue I have with FC. To my knowledge, I've never applied CLP or the other petroleum-based lubes wrong, because I'm not sure you can. Until I saw the light, I might not have used enough. And even in the desert we learned to still run them more or less wet, even at the risk of attracting dust.

But I never applied it incorrectly.

While you guys are cooking eggs with your non-toxic lube, I'll at least have the peace of mind that comes from knowing my cancer lube won't gum up on me because I applied it incorrectly.