Guns and dogs

[GJM]

http://www.adn.com/article/20150824/guns-drawn-following-confrontation-over-dogs-soldotna-troopers-say

[Alpha Sierra]

You know, going out to grab the loose dogs and saying "hey sorry about that" would have solved the problem and Mr Gomez would still be a free man.

Most likely he'll end being a convicted felon now.......

[idahojess]

Dog stuff can sure escalate quickly. I had a neighbor's German Shepherd (pure, I think) climb its 3-and-a-half-foot-crappy fence and come out at me and my spindly legged German Shorthair very aggressively a couple of weeks ago. I yelled at the dog to go away, then it just came up and did the sniff-routine. The dog's dingbat owner came up, apologized, then frantically chased it into another yard while it chased a cat. Poor dog is probably going to end up getting put down after it bites somebody -- I think it is still young.
I'm never sure what the right response is, but I'd rather have my hand on a can of pepper spray to start. (Not that I blame the initial dog walkers in the story here, I have no idea what those dogs were like -- and yeah, the owner with a shotgun sounds like a fool).
When I think about my relatively safe life, dog walking is probably the most likely conflict originating event. I suppose that's a good thing. (and when I say conflict event, I just mean cause for potential conflict, not necessarily an event that requires self defense).

[SLG]

That's why proper training is important. Our Great Pyrenees can do a sub 7 sec. FAST. Let's me stay out of it altogether.
:-)

[LittleLebowski]

That's why proper training is important. Our Great Pyrenees can do a sub 7 sec. FAST. Let's me stay out of it altogether.
:-)

Lazy dog won't dry fire enough to win a coin :(

[GJM]

Whether on the internet or in real life, people/dog/dog owner confrontations seem to have the potential to erupt into mortal combat quickly.

About ten years ago, in Pasco, WA, my wife was walking our 13 year old Vizsla on a leash, on the perimeter of the airport, on a public road. An unrestrained pit bull rushed out of an open garage door at an industrial property, charged, and clamped down hard on the neck of our elderly dog, who was on a leash. My wife hit down with her fist so hard on top of the pit bull, that the pit bull was stunned and fell to the ground. The pit bull's owner rushed out aggressively, yelling, and accused my wife of injuring his dog, which I guess she did. I could easily of seen that escalating.

[SteveB]

My money's on the wife...

[GJM]

Pretty interesting how these things go. We just got back to town, and my wife and I went for an end of the day hike join our neighborhood. We walk half a mile to get to the trail. Passing a house, with new owners there, their large male Pyrenees, came charging towards us, barking loudly. Owner was yelling for him to stop, with little effect. My wife kept our bird dog on the leash, and I got between them and the Pyrenees. I raised my hand, palm out and said "hey, bud, stop right there." He stopped a few feet away, owner caught up, and all was well. In a neighborhood situation like that, I personally would take a bite first before drawing a handgun.

[SLG]

Pretty interesting how these things go. We just got back to town, and my wife and I went for an end of the day hike join our neighborhood. We walk half a mile to get to the trail. Passing a house, with new owners there, their large male Pyrenees, came charging towards us, barking loudly. Owner was yelling for him to stop, with little effect. My wife kept our bird dog on the leash, and I got between them and the Pyrenees. I raised my hand, palm out and said "hey, bud, stop right there." He stopped a few feet away, owner caught up, and all was well. In a neighborhood situation like that, I personally would take a bite first before drawing a handgun.

I don't know, GJM. Having been attacked by a dog for real, and bit many times in training, I will crush the dog before I allow a bite. Doesn't mean I'll shoot, that is often not the best solution, but the dog is going down hard. In your situation, I might be a bit of a gambling man, since GP's tend to try to scare unknowns off, and don't "usually" bite.

[TGS]

As someone whose kicked a pit bull in the head repeatedly with safety toe Danners and broke its jaw, and it still wanted to fight......I want to learn this magical head-bop that will drop a pit bull to the ground, stunned.

That experience also taught me how amazingly powerful such an animal can be. Unless you've been in units that practice dispatching guard dogs by letting them latch onto you, then the whole lift and shoot.....and you were good at it....I wouldn't assume that I'll have the ability or faculties to still shoot a dog after it takes me to the ground. I think letting a large dog go to town on you before you decide to shoot is underestimating the dire of your situation if a large dog attacks you. Ever since that day I have never been without atleast a knife, because I have no confidence, at all, in being able to defend myself against a dog attack without an instrument of mayhem.

[GJM]

I don't think there is any right answer, and would not suggest my decision is right for someone else. I wouldn't hesitate to spray a dog, but I do think, for sure, stabbing or shooting someone's dog is going to bring the worst out of them. My wife and I have discussed it previously and come to that joint decision to be very cautious about deploying lethal force to a non-feral dog. She was bit by a dog in Wichita, in a park, and while we were both armed, we did not escalate.

In this case, I have had a previous experience with a Pyrenees, and that big guy was absolutely smitten with our Astro. It was also just a few houses down the road from us, which played into my assessment.

I don't think for a minute I could successfully shoot a large dog that took me down, but I feel much more comfortable having my wife there with me. I trust her to shoot a bear off me, and so that goes for a dog, too. If I routinely was in areas with problem dogs, I would carry spray.

[Alpha Sierra]

I guess what I'm taking away from this is that if you shoot someone's dog, you may as well get ready to shoot him too

[VT1032]

It was an incident like this that led me to start carrying in the first place. I was out taking a walk on a backroad with my now ex-girlfriend and as we passed this shithole of a trailer across the street, this large pitbull comes bolting out of it straight at her. I don't mean running, this thing was going balls to the wall directly at her with murder in its eyes... She has always had this weird connection with animals and I think that is what saved her from getting bit because as I was grabbing for a big rock nearby to brain this thing, she was yelling at it, and to my surprise it actually stopped about 2 or so feet away from her and started back inside. Of course, the meth head who owned the dog wasn't so gracious and came out and started yelling and threatening us so we beat a hasty retreat in the direction from which we came. She later told me, his trailer was raided about a month later, there was a cook lab inside. After that, I decided enough was enough and bought a Glock 23 and started daily carrying that.

[fixer]

The dog owner is almost always worse than the dog.

The one time I've come within microseconds of pulling the trigger on another human was over a an argument about a dog that went sideways on me and ironically got me chased by the dog owner.

Loose dogs where I live are an on going problem.

I've been menaced an average of 2-3 times per month and at its worst probably 1-2 times per week.

I've been full on attacked 3 times in 5 years at my current residence.

With loose dogs that are over 50 lbs. I have an immediate defensive posture. I don't utilize spray because it can be unreliable and in W Texas the wind can get you in trouble fast with a spray.

My use of force continuum is: Loud shouting and hand waving. Then a baton. Then a firearm.

When it comes to the dog's owner, no matter where you are at in your use of force continuum, be prepared for lots of hysterical drama. Do not engage them. It will make things worse.

[texasaggie2005]

Not gonna lie; while reading the OP's news story I thought for a minute it might have been about GJM and his wife.

In five years of almost daily carry, the only time I've ever had to draw my pistol was at a charging pit bull. Thankfully the drunk owner called him off about 2 yards before my line in the sand. Thinking about it afterwards, the drunk owner probably would've become a problem too, but I'm glad it didn't escalate to that.

[StraitR]

While there are few certainties in life, it's a safe bet to draw a direct correlation between a dogs aggression and behavior to that of it's owner. Very few aggressive dogs are going to have passive owners, so if forced to defend yourself from a dog, be equally prepared to face emotionally charged, illogical confrontation from the owner.

Humans are the same, and this is painfully obvious in children. Aggressive children tend to have aggressive parents, and kids that hit tend to have parents that hit. The behavior is either taught or learned through observation, and then emulated.

My dogs are well behaved and extremely friendly, but my 3 year old is unbelievably strong willed and sassy, so I'm stumped. :D

[Trooper224]

People put too much stock in their pets, it's a "pet" peeve of mine.

[HCM]

The dog owner is almost always worse than the dog.

The one time I've come within microseconds of pulling the trigger on another human was over a an argument about a dog that went sideways on me and ironically got me chased by the dog owner.

Loose dogs where I live are an on going problem.

I've been menaced an average of 2-3 times per month and at its worst probably 1-2 times per week.

I've been full on attacked 3 times in 5 years at my current residence.

With loose dogs that are over 50 lbs. I have an immediate defensive posture. I don't utilize spray because it can be unreliable and in W Texas the wind can get you in trouble fast with a spray.

My use of force continuum is: Loud shouting and hand waving. Then a baton. Then a firearm.

When it comes to the dog's owner, no matter where you are at in your use of force continuum, be prepared for lots of hysterical drama. Do not engage them. It will make things worse.

Try a spray which delivers a stream instead of a messed. You need to be a little more precise in the application but it is much more wind resistant

[JHC]

Does this help or hurt the situation?
http://www.boredpanda.com/russian-werewolf-dog-muzzle/

[Salamander]

I have a nerdy young PhD on my staff, at first glance one would think he's only dangerous with a statistical analysis and not much else.

A few weeks ago he (and a petite female colleague) were out on one of our problem sites doing the science that precedes big construction projects, when they were rapidly approached by an aggressive pit bull. They both had spray, but he had the presence of mind to note (rapidly) that the wind was blowing toward them.

So he picked up a handful of rocks and began throwing them in the general direction of the dog; which promptly ran away.

I had no idea my guy was that cool or quick thinking under stress, and I'm impressed. Fortunately there was no sign of the owner although there was a trailer nearby. Probably still sleeping it off.

[GJM]

I had another dog run in last night. Similar as the last one, big dog coming at us and our vizsla, on leash, but down at the harbor. I did the same as last time, got between our dog and the approaching big dog, palm up and "hey big guy, hold it right there." It worked. No idea if this is complete luck or something dogs relate to?

[Saur]

I remember a few years back on another forum someone posted up a safety vid for mail deliverers on foot. I think they did something similar to what you do, square up to the dog, say something, and not turn your back - even when leaving. I recall the suggestion to use their hat in-hand though, this was something for them to sniff and for something less vital and easy to let go in case the dog decided to bite/clamp down. We're two-legged with higher centers of gravity, and dogs are just about purpose-built for immobilizing/takedown.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The Harold Fish case, which influenced laws and had the issue of whether 10mm made you look nuts, was a dog issue at the start.

[LittleLebowski]

I had another dog run in last night. Similar as the last one, big dog coming at us and our vizsla, on leash, but down at the harbor. I did the same as last time, got between our dog and the approaching big dog, palm up and "hey big guy, hold it right there." It worked. No idea if this is complete luck or something dogs relate to?

It is something dogs understand. Be unafraid, be dominant, get out there and be commanding

My best example of this was being literally charged by a friend's unattended (at his large property) 120lb Boerboel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boerboel). I was quite frightened about taking a bite from this large and powerful animal but she backed down when I told her to knock it off and get back. Not a 100% remedy but as GJM points out, works more often than not. The problem is that our society is getting to the point where people are afraid of everything.

[HCM]

It is something dogs understand. Be unafraid, be dominant, get out there and be commanding

My best example of this was being literally charged by a friend's unattended (at his large property) 120lb Boerboel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boerboel). I was quite frightened about taking a bite from this large and powerful animal but she backed down when I told her to knock it off and get back. Not a 100% remedy but as GJM points out, works more often than not. The problem is that our society is getting to the point where people are afraid of everything.

Not to derail to much but where would one find a Boerboel in the U.S? Interesting breed.

[LittleLebowski]

Not to derail to much but where would one find a Boerboel in the U.S? Interesting breed.

This one was in Virginia, bought on the East Coast but here's a breeder in your state: http://www.waldrodt-boerboels.com

[KevinB]

It is something dogs understand. Be unafraid, be dominant, get out there and be commanding

My best example of this was being literally charged by a friend's unattended (at his large property) 120lb Boerboel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boerboel). I was quite frightened about taking a bite from this large and powerful animal but she backed down when I told her to knock it off and get back. Not a 100% remedy but as GJM points out, works more often than not. The problem is that our society is getting to the point where people are afraid of everything.


Dog's can small fear (more accurately sense the endorphin's released by fear). As LLB states, firm commands and commanding presence and most dog's will listen. The exception being trained dog's if your the target (intended or otherwise - as I've seen a bunch of guys get bit on the job by K-9's that got misguided, or took advantage of an officers actions to get a good bite in).

My dog's are family - and I will defend them like the rest of my family.

[UNK]

Just don't tell the dog to stop.


I had another dog run in last night. Similar as the last one, big dog coming at us and our vizsla, on leash, but down at the harbor. I did the same as last time, got between our dog and the approaching big dog, palm up and "hey big guy, hold it right there." It worked. No idea if this is complete luck or something dogs relate to?