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View Full Version : Small of the Back, cases?



Glenn E. Meyer
08-24-2015, 03:04 PM
This touches various different topics but I thought it would fit here. The question is SOB carry.

The standard mantra that SOB is dangerous to your spine and has various problems for concealment, the draw, retention, etc. Seems reasonable to me. Guns and other equipment are not carried there. However, watching some officers on the tube, I do see cuff cases in that area. Thought that was not allowed.

Does anyone have a reference to a real case where a fall did hurt someone because of this?

Second, I was shooting an IDPA match and the SO said that if you carry a Barney mag, it should be carried in the SOB? Yes, I could look it up in the book but since I'm asking about an injury case, thought I would ask here. I always just stowed in my pocket but this guy (whom I like) was a rule stickler.

Did a neat stage with a one handed reload, when just fine.

abu fitna
08-24-2015, 04:01 PM
I know there have been more than a few cases documented with handcuffs causing spinal injury due to carry in SOB position during ground fighting problems. These tend to be documented in the officer survival literature.

As far as weapon holster SOB carry, I remember a briefing covering at least one case involving a u/c officer in a greater metro area of a city on the eastern seaboard in the mid 1990's who was carrying a 3rd gen S&W auto SOB, sans holster. During a controlled purchase the offender chose to try to rip the officer, and struck him repeatedly in the head with an improvised sap (hand size length of lead pipe taken from pocket). The officer was knocked to the ground, and the offender mounted and continued striking. The officer suffered facial fractures, but due to gear selection and positioning was unable to access weapon in fight, and also suffered spinal jury from metal frame against pavement. The spinal injuries are said to have only not been worse due to the weapon coming free during the ground fight, limiting further impact damage to the cracked / chipped vertebrae (sorry, can't remember which bone damage mechanism in this case, it has been a long time).

A second case of SOB injury was reported from nonviolent incident in the mid noughties. An officer self-reported for medical care following bloody urine. The symptoms were intermittent and not readily diagnosed. Long story short, cause was found to be repeated impact from pistol grip of weapon carried SOB while running for PT, resulting in bruising of the kidney. Officer was a very avid athletic type - I seem to recall early crossfit or similar). Change of holster for both position and degree of tuck, and change of running schedule was said to have solved the issue.

I am sure there are other cases out there in the literature; these are just the ones the come immediately to mind.

Chuck Haggard
08-24-2015, 04:21 PM
I know of a couple of the cuff case in the small of the back incidents, but nothing you can google up

Chuck Whitlock
08-24-2015, 04:56 PM
However, watching some officers on the tube, I do see cuff cases in that area. Thought that was not allowed.

"Not a good idea" does not necessarily = "verboten". I see coppers do it from time-to-time. I might broach the subject if circumstances allow.

voodoo_man
08-24-2015, 05:16 PM
In my PD standard rig setup in the academy is a cuff pouch at the center of the small of the back. It sucked, though you get used to it because you have to...or else you do pushups until you want to get used to it.

Since then I've tried various things and optics, now I do not put a single piece of equipment/pouches behind my A-Line. Two specific reasons, one being its not comfortable while sitting in a car, and the other being it starts to produce lower back pain.

I will add to the topic that the wide acceptance of the overt carry vest allows for movement of pouches and equipment from the belt to the vest. I like this evolution.

Paul
08-25-2015, 12:01 PM
A lot of guys just run out of room for all the stuff they are mandated to carry.

After a pistol, 2 mags, pepper spray, baton, radio and Taser/ECW, there is just not many places left to put a pair of cuffs if you're packing less than a 40" waist line.

I've had to move stuff around and purchase a dual purpose mag/cuff pouch to get everything off of my back due to sciatica flare ups.

dustyvarmint
08-28-2015, 12:03 PM
Second, I was shooting an IDPA match and the SO said that if you carry a Barney mag, it should be carried in the SOB? Yes, I could look it up in the book but since I'm asking about an injury case, thought I would ask here. I always just stowed in my pocket but this guy (whom I like) was a rule stickler.

Did a neat stage with a one handed reload, when just fine.

Again, nothing to link to, but my first 2 pistol classes were taught by a prison guard husband/wife team (not LE). They were vehemently opposed to SOB cuff carry after she said one of the new recruits was hurt significantly from a fall.

I'm an IDPA SO and I try my best to be an absolute terror to SOs who make up rules. The rule is may, not must.

8.6.1.3 One ammunition carrier per allowed ammunition feeding device (see rule 8.1.4.2) may be worn on the belt. (Each individual pouch in a multiple pouch ammunition carrier counts as one.) One additional ammunition carrier may be worn behind the centerline of the body for the purposes of loading at the start of a stage. This carrier must be empty before the “Stand By” command.

happy shooting, Jerry

SLG
08-28-2015, 06:00 PM
I have a 31" waist. When I was a uniform cop, I had a 30" waist. Carried two sets of cuffs, baton, spray, gun, mags, surefire, bug, radio, leatherman, knife, trauma kit and rubber gloves. The rubber gloves (2 or 3 pairs) went into a small pouch in the small of my back. Padded the area and prevented anything else from being there. Worked out well.

K.O.A.M.
08-29-2015, 07:01 PM
I have a 31" waist. When I was a uniform cop, I had a 30" waist. Carried two sets of cuffs, baton, spray, gun, mags, surefire, bug, radio, leatherman, knife, trauma kit and rubber gloves. The rubber gloves (2 or 3 pairs) went into a small pouch in the small of my back. Padded the area and prevented anything else from being there. Worked out well.

We suggest that set up to our new deputies when they come aboard. I put my glove pouch dead center, and the two handcuff cases are on either side of my buckle.